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Old 08-26-2015, 04:36 PM   #1
Jezie
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Considering implant for your child
__________________________________________________________________
FOR PARENTS ONLY
This section is intended for parents of deaf children, especially those
who are seriously considering giving their child an implant. It is
written by Deaf adults who are the grown-up children of hearing
parents. So we can say that we understand your concerns, and those of
your deaf children. Weve been there, and whenever we revisit our
families, were there again.
Note that were using the pronouns he and she and him and her
alternately. What we say applies equally to your deaf daughters and
ons.
THE BEGINNING
In the old days, parents whose children were born deaf were often
unaware that anything was amiss until the child was, say, 3 years old.
Deaf babies are exceptionally good at fooling their parents. They cry
and babble just like hearing infants do, since these instinctive
behaviors dont depend on hearing. But when they reach the stage when
hearing babies are starting to put syllables together to make words,
and putting words together to make sentences, deaf babies arent doing
this, and the parents, if hitherto unaware, begin to harbor suspicions.
Why isnt their child talking? Traditionally, deaf children were caught
when they reached this stage, and rarely beforehand.
Nowadays, with the increasing reliance on newborn hearing-screening
tests performed in hospitals, deaf babies are identified before theyre
taken home. In many ways, this is good. If a baby is deaf, the parents
hould know right away, and take immediate steps to get language to
her. Delaying the acquisition of language may have profoundly damaging
consequences for the deaf child, since shes at the prime age for
language-learning, and if she starts late, may never catch up in
chool. Instead of waiting until toddlerhood (and wasting precious
time), parents get the news within hours of the babys birth.
There is, however, a disturbing trend to send deaf newborns straight to
the cochlear-implant clinic. The parents are supposed to be presented
with information on the various options in a fair and unbiased way, but
it seems that a number of them arent. Theyre being steered in one
direction onlytowards the implant. They are told that the best time to
implant is infancy, when a child is just beginning to acquire language.
Any postponement could lead to irreversible delays in progress, as deaf
toddlers, left to their own devices, fall further and further behind
their hearing peers in language development. So parents can come under
terrific pressure to make a commitment now.
We know that parenting deaf children involves making some exceptionally
tough decisions. Parents need to decide what sort of
communicative/educational approach they will take, and to make some
ort of commitment to it. This isnt always an easy task, since
advocates of the oral/aural methods and sign-language approach may be
putting pressure of the parents to commit to their way.
Of course, parents want to feel like theyre making the best possible
decision. And when they get pressured by opposing factions, they
ometimes fight back by choosing an extreme approach. Cochlear implants
represent the most extreme of approaches: a surgical invasion of a
childs head.
OUR PERSONAL FEELINGS
We dont believe that a cochlear implant should be installed in
prelingually deaf babies and young children. If a child already has
experience in hearing and speech before losing her hearing, and has
become profoundly deaf as a result of sickness or trauma after learning
how to speak, or was born hard-of-hearing but lost her hearing
gradually, we have no objection to the implant, because the child is
imply reconnecting with her previous mode of communication. That child
already has a basis for spoken and aural language. An implant will
enable the child to build on the existing foundation.
If, however, the deaf baby or child is congenitally, profoundly
deafthat is, he has no foundation in aural/spoken languagethen we dont
feel that an implant is suitable. It causes sensory confusion. Deaf
children are, and should be allowed to be, visualnot auditorylearners.
I dont believe that you can make a born-deaf child comprehend sounds
any more than you can make a born-blind child appreciate colors. A
child who is born profoundly, bilaterally deaf has no real concept of
oundlet alone speech. Its alien. And the CI isnt going to magically
unscramble this. It is far better to give such a child immediate access
to sign language, and use that as a foundation from which to proceed.
The next step is to teach the child to read and write. The
peech/speechreading training can follow. Speech and aural training
hould not be the primary focus of a deaf childs education.
A BLIND COMPARISON
In a way, blind children have an easier time of it than deaf children
do. When a child is born blind into a sighted family, the parents,
iblings, and relatives quickly accept the fact that hes blind. They
usually dont waste much valuable time shopping around for treatments
and cures. They may enroll him in a preschool program for blind
children, and proceed to send him to a school for the blind. We feel
that our society accepts and respects blind people and those with all
manner of physical disabilitiesall, that is, except deaf people.
Society is willing to accommodate persons with mobility handicaps and
those who are blindbut deaf people are told that we should get
ourselves fixed. Fixed, that is, with cochlear implants.
SIGNS OF LOVE
One thing that parents of kids with implants always tell the media is
how much they love their deaf kids, and to make an explicit connection
between their love and the implant. They say things like We wanted to
give Jimmy exposure to the wonderful world of sound because we love
him. No, they insist, they dont hate deaf people (even if they shun
them), and they respect ASL (even if they refuse to learn it), but they
are confident that the implant is in their childs best interest.
The greatest gift of love you can give your deaf child is to accept him
as he is, and to encourage him to thrive as a person. Embrace your
childs deafness. It is a part of him. If you take the attitude I love
you, but I hate your deafness, or Youre okay, but your deafness is
unacceptable to us, youre going to end up with one very confused kid.
How do you show your deaf child you love her? Learn to sign. Learn to
communicate with her. You will get to know your child better through
ign language than through speech training. Because a deaf child has to
be taught language, she will pick up spoken vocabulary at a much slower
rate than her hearing peers are doing. But if you use sign language
with her, shell pick that up much more quickly. Young children pick up
ASL so fast that in some cases, their parents have gotten upset about
it. Yes, they say, hes learningtoo well!!! Their oral skills typically
lag behind their signing skills. Focus on the signing for now, and, we
assure you, the speech progress will follow.
We encourage you to learn sign as soon as you can. It isnt that
difficult. And the rewards are immeasurable. Weve encountered all the
excuses not to:
Its too difficult.
I dont want to make the commitment.
Its not useful in the real world.
There arent enough people we could use it with.
We dont feel comfortable doing this.
It doesnt feel natural to us.
I dont like it.
Weve seen em all. And we see through em.
MIRACLE OR MISTAKE?
The cochlear-implant industry has run a fantastically successful
campaign aimed at parents of deaf babies. Give your deaf child the gift
of sound, they say. Give your child a magic key to success in he
mainstream. With an implant, they claim, a deaf child can acquire
normal or near-normal spoken language, just like hearing children. They
utilize carefully-manipulated data to show tremendous gains in
language-generating and speech-processing ability.
In reality, there is no reliable way to predict how well a child will
function with an implant, nor how rapid their oral/aural progress will
be. The benefits accruing from the implant may be negligible. Its an
expensive gamble.
What quality of sound is the child getting? An array of manufactured
electrodes can never replace the delicate and subtle sense of hearing.
Some veteran CI users have disliked the way their implants fed
environmental noises into their heads. So they switched their implants
off, finding that they could better focus on work or play without them.
The CI doesnt make a deaf person hearing. It is not a miracle fix. It
does not constitute a bionic replacement for the delicate and
complicated sense of hearing that has been lost or damaged. It enables
the wearer to distinguish some degree of sound discrimination. After
receiving an implant, a child typically needs extensive one-to-one
auditory/speech therapy so that she can learn to interpret these
electronic noises as human speech. There has been a wide variety of
outcomes with the CI, ranging from the negligible to the excellent.
Think about expenses. Are CIs really a cost-effective measure? We have
een some extraordinary statistics that prove that its cheaper to give
deaf children CIs and mainstream them instead of enrolling them in
ign-language programs and schools for the deaf. But is it really?
Implants cost $40,000 to $50,000 a pop, and we dont think that includes
the intensive speech-therapy regimen thats required afterwards. Very
few, if any, parents, we suspect, would opt for an implant if it wasnt
covered by health insurance. There is a persistent myth that a child
with a CI can function just like a hearing child, but in truth, most,
if not all, children with CIs need intensive, long-term, and expensive
upport in clinics and schools. And parents who want to learn to sign
can sometimes get that free of charge. Some schools for the deaf
operate early-intervention programs in which trained teachers visit the
parents and child at home and play with him while teaching the family
how to sign and how to read to him. Even if the parents enroll in a
local community-college Basic Sign class, its still considerably
cheaper than an implant.
Most children with implants ultimately decide to join the Deaf
community. They learn sign language; they make it an important part of
their lives. Some maintain clear speech, and continue to communicate
orally with their families, while acquiring signing-Deaf friends. But
most eventually shift to the signing community. So why delay? Why put
the child through this intensive oral/aural/ speech-rehabilitation
regimen when it would be more productive to give her a strong
foundation in signing first?
Deaf children desperately need an enriched language environment with
lots of visual-tactile-kinetic communication far more than they do
intensive speech training. As weve already said, the speech training
can wait. Language and literacy should come first.
BE WARNED!
In persuading parents to commit themselves to the implant, audiologists
and CI clinicians may not present a strictly accurate picture. They may
exaggerate the chances of success. They may downplay the immense
investment of time and energy required in developing the childs
poken-language skills. They may give a misleadingly rosy view of the
outcome.
We have a deaf friend, Steven, who received a CI at the age of 35.
Before he agreed to the surgery, he discussed the pros and cons with an
audiologist. Steven was told that with an implant, hed be able to use
the telephone normally, to engage in telephone conversations just as
hearing people do. Excited about the prospect, he consented to the
urgery. After Steven received his CI and had it activated, he tried to
carry on a conversation on the telephone, only to discover that he
couldnt decipher the garbled electronic sounds on the other end. After
complaining to the audiologist, Steven was told that he could only
engage in telephone conversations in which the other party answered Yes
or No. He now considers himself a victim of deception. He had agreed to
the CI only because he believed it would enable him to have normal
voice conversations on the phone, only to find out that he was limited
to he most rudimentary form of voice communication.
How typical is Steven? More typical than the dazzling successes that
weve read about in the newspapers, magazines, and Internet accounts,
were sure.
SUPPOSE THE KID ASKS FOR IT?
At least a few deaf children have told their parents that they wanted
an implant for themselves. This, at least, was their conscious choice.
Parents of these children, and we know of two such instances, discussed
the matter thoroughly with the children first, did their homework, and
investigated the pros and cons of the implant before committing
themselves. In at least one case, a deaf girl who had gotten the
implant lost most of her deaf friends. Deaf children with implants
often endure hazing from other deaf kids: Borg! Borg! Robot-ear!
Most deaf children, when learning about what an implant is and what it
does, are dismayed at the prospect of having electrodes surgically
installed in their heads. But some are satisfied with the implant, and
ay theyre happy their parents made the decision for them. Others are
unhappy about having implants and, for various reasons, stop using them
when they reach college age. There is no consensus. The CI population
itself is split in disagreement over the value of the implant. Some
users, who had no technical problems with their implants, nonetheless
decided to stop using them.
DEAF WILL ALWAYS BE DEAF
One thing that needs to be kept in mind: profound bilateral
ensorineural deafness is a permanent condition. It cannot be undone
with an implant. Deaf children who are born-deaf or early-deafened will
always be deaf. They will be looked upon and treated as deaf by hearing
people. Having an implant will not make them just like hearing.
How catastrophic is deafness? We recall an interview with Katharine
Hepburn in which she said that Spencer Tracys life was tragic because
his son John was born deaf. Can you believe that? But then, if you see
deafness as a tragic affliction, both the parents and the children
uffer. If, however, you look at deafness as another way of being
human, your perspective may change radically. If you find yourself
thinking despondent thoughts about the effect of deafness on your child
and your family, we recommend that you connect yourself to a support
ystem. Network with other parents of deaf children, and with Deaf
adults.
In counseling parents to accept their deaf children, we dont mean that
they should choke down their grief and disappointment and put on a big
fake smiley-face, but to learn to accept their child as a full-fledged
personsmart, beautiful, capable, gifted. Each child has a unique
contribution to make to the world. Your challenge is to help yours live
up to his full potential. It begins with the familythe childs first and
most influential school.
BABY SIGNS: FOR DEAF BABIES, TOO
Denied access to real sign language, many deaf children have created
their own signing systems, known as home signs. Home-sign systems have
been documented and studied by linguists, and are a fascinating
ubject. But if deaf children werent denied access to ASL, there would
be no need for hem to create their own systems. Home signs tend to be
crude and grammatically rudimentary, lacking the richness and subtlety
of real sign languages. Its better to provide deaf children with an
enriched sign-language environment than leave them to their own
devices.
Signing is as natural to deaf babies as speaking is to hearing babies.
Children whose parents sign to them from birth typically start signing
before they can speak, because babies find it easier to sign than to
articulate spoken words. Signing to babies accelerates language
learning and speech. It does not retard it. The research of Acredolo
and Goodwyn, among others, emphasizes the benefits of teaching hearing
babies some basic signs. The advantages include fewer tantrumsbabies
who can communicate their needs and desires to their parents and be
easily understood are happier and experience less frustration. This is
omething that Deaf parents have known for ages!
And if the benefits of signing to hearing babies are recognized, the
ame benefits apply to deaf babies. The difference is that while
hearing babies can phase in speech as their spoken-language-processing
kills develop, deaf babies should be encouraged to continue signing
and utilize it as a primary mode of communication.
Books and multimedia packages teaching baby signs have been selling
quite well. These books and CD-ROMs typically contain a mixture of
igns adapted from ASL, and made-up signs. The number of depicted signs
is usually limited. We recommend that parents of deaf babies use real
ASL signs with them (and their hearing siblings). This will make it
easier to phase in additional signs and encourage them to put sentences
together. There wont be any necessity of unlearning made-up signs.
Parents can, of course, use made-up signs if they find them easier. If
you develop a non-canonical sign that you feel more comfortable with,
by all means, use it. Lots of Deaf people use impromptu, invented, and
play signs. The important thing is to get language to the baby
immediately and frequently.
A CUP OF JUICE OR A TANTRUM?
Were sure that you recall reading about Heather Whitestone McCallum,
whose mother, Daphne Gray, took a rigorously oral approach with her,
enrolling her in an intensive oral/aural program and later, Central
Institute for the Deaf, one of the most strictly-oral schools in the
nation. (She learned to sign fairly fluently when she was in college.
Incidentally, she now has a CI.) When she was young, Heather attended a
mixed class for deaf children where she saw other deaf kids signing,
and picked it up from them. Daphne did not approve of this, and used a
form of behavior modification to discourage her. She wanted Heather to
use her voice, not to sign.
In a childrens biography, and in her own memoir, Daphne is described as
refusing to give Heather a glass of juice until Heather, who was
igning something like Juice, please, articulated her request in voice.
Daphne deliberately ignored Heathers signing. Only when she uttered a
vocal sound did she get the water. Oralists would consider this an
effective way of compelling children to develop speech skills. Deaf
people consider it cruel.
Toddlers are notorious for throwing tantrums. Many of these are caused
by communicative frustration. The child isnt deliberately acting
bratty; she is trying to communicate her needs or wants and isnt
getting through. When little Kim is thirsty and wants a drink of juice,
and tries to articulate her want to Mommy, but Mommy doesnt understand
her whining and frantic gestures, Kim is apt to get upset, and a
tantrum ensueswailing, crying, stomping, fist-beating. But if Mommy has
already taught Kim the signs for thirsty, drink, or juice, Kim can sign
to her, and Mommy understands immediately, opens the refrigerator, and
pours Kim a cup of her favorite juice. Her immediate want satisfied,
Kim can proceed with play and learning. Shes happy that Mommy
understands, and Mommy is happy that Kim is able to communicate easily.
Mommy can make a learning experience out of it, building on the signs
Kim already knows to introduce new onesthank you, good, cool, oranges
and lemons.
Sign language is not a communicative crutch. It doesnt make deaf
children lazy. It doesnt interfere with their ability to produce clear
peech. It doesnt retard their language development. It benefits them.
It benefits them tremendously. Once you make space in your life for
igning, you will see that it benefits you too.
WHAT WILL YOURS SAY?
Imagine your deaf child as a young adult, almost fully grown, going off
to college. After deaf children graduate from high school (whether
mainstreamed in a public school, attending a school for the deaf, or in
a day or charter-school program) and go off to college, a number of
them choose a signing environment like Gallaudet University, NTID, or
CSUN. Then, when they come back to visit their families during semester
break, what do you suppose theyre going to say? Their #1 wish seems to
be, Mom and Dad, I really wish youd learn to sign so that we can have
good conversations with each other. Or theyll say, I wish you hadnt
listened to those doctors when I was a baby. I wish youd learned to
ign. I would have been much happier. We have met many, many deaf
adults who expressed disappointment that their parents hadnt learned to
ign. Anger and grief are common feelings in these people.
When deaf adults get together, they often discuss their families. What
will your deaf child say about you? Consider the possibilities:
The audiologists told me parents not to use sign with me, but they
defied him and taught me to sign anywayand Im so grateful they did!
My folks wanted me to speak and hear just like a hearing person, and
they wasted so much time pursuing that fantasy.
My parents decided to learn to sign when I was a baby, and I love them
for doing that.
My folks refused to let me use sign language in our house. The doctors
told them that if they let me sign, Id never learn to speak properly.
My folks decided to enroll me in a sign-language program when I was a
toddler, and my signing skills just took off like a rocket!
I was mainstreamed, and I had a terrible time of it, without deaf
friends or support services. My folks never quite understood what I was
going through.
My parents got me a cochlear implant when I was a baby, and it took
years for me to acquire intelligible speech.
My parents were confident that Id do just fine without an implant. They
had faith in me.
Mine refused to believe that I was deaf, and kept taking me to
different doctors to be tested. They wouldnt learn to sign. I fell
behind in school and never quite got caught up.
WHO MAKES THE DECISION?
One big question, of course, is: who has the final say in deciding to
give a deaf child a cochlear implant? Who makes the decision on behalf
of the deaf child? The parents, of course. And who influences this
decision?
Professionals in the medical field (audiologists, clinicians, doctors,
urgeons, etc.) have shown that they have very little, if any, interest
in what the Deaf community thinks or believes. For years, doctors have
routinely advised parents not to use any signing with their children,
despite the well-publicized benefits of a signing environment, and we
dont see much abatement of this trend. The implant doctors, as far as
we can tell, shrug off criticism from Deaf advocates as the rantings of
retrogressive loonies and fringe fanatics.
We also question the basis for the decisions being made by the parents
who have no previous education on the issues. Who is handling the task
of discussing the communicative choices with the parents? A doctor who
has a negative opinion of signing? One who links signing with low
expectations? One who has an interest in promoting implants? Just who
is presenting the options to the parents? Are the various possibilities
(and each has its advantages and disadvantages) being presented to them
in a fair, unbiased way, or are they being steered in one direction
only? Do the parents understand the sign-affirmative option . . . or is
the cochlear-implant option being touted as the best possible (or the
only) solution?
Another troubling fact is that when doctors tell parents not to use
igning with their deaf kids (especially after they receive an
implant), they may not thrive in the prescribed oral/aural regimenbut
theyre excluded from deriving benefit from signing. In effect, theyre
forced between languages. Theyre forced to be languageless.
What, or who, influences parents into making a particular decision?
Does it boil down to who has the slicker, more aggressive PR campaign:
the chronically under-funded ASL lobby or the wealthy cochlear-implant
industry?
DONT PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT TO DECIDE WHATS BEST FOR THEIR DEAF CHILDREN?
The recent case of Lee Larsen in Grand Rapids, Michigan, was scary, but
the outcome affirmed that a mother could refuse to give her deaf kids
implants (even though county authorities believed that it was in the
childrens best interests), and that the court could not overrule her
decision and implant them against her will. Parents currently have the
ole legal right to decide whether or not their child receives an
implant. There are some Deaf people who feel that parents should not be
the ones to make this decision. They believe that the deaf child should
have the final say. In this view, receiving a CI should be a matter of
informed consent by the deaf person only.
Parents have been making decisions for their children since the
beginning of time. They continue to do so, of course. There have been
ome cases in which the courts have overruled parents in the case of
life-threatening emergenciesi.e., situations in which the childs health
was endangered but the parents religious beliefs conflicted with the
childs medical needs, such as receiving a transfusion. (Note that we do
not consider deafness a life-threatening condition or a medical
emergency.) No one argues that parents have a legal right to determine
what they believe is in their childrens best interests or best for
their families. But we, as deaf children of hearing parents, feel that
we have a right to question the bases for these decisions. After all,
we are the ones who have to live with the consequences of our parents
decisions. Their choices have profound repercussions in every aspect of
our lives.
Most deaf people we know who have grown up in oral programs and become
igners have a lot of anger about their upbringings. They are angry
about being deprived of communication, of spending a tremendous amount
of time and energy on trying to improve their speech when they could
have been getting an education and interacting with others. They are
angry about the time and money wasted in speech and auditory therapy.
Wasted time cant be retrieved.
MISGIVINGS
Many parents have made, and continue to make, decisions that are
motivated by love and concern, but turn out to be mistaken. Making
mistakes is part of being human, and part of parenting. We have begun
to encounter parents who have already given their deaf children
cochlear implantsand are now sorry that they did. We have a bit of
advice for parents in this situation: dont get bogged down with guilt.
Invest your time and energy wisely. Establish closer connections with
the Deaf community. Network with other parents. Encourage your deaf
child to have other deaf friends. Read to her. Teach her how to cope
with hazing. Dont stop signing. Keep learning, keep practicing, and
increase your skills.
A FINAL WORD
You are not alone. We assure you that you can get the support you need
from other parents and Deaf adults by networking. You dont have to go
through this alone. And you shouldnt.
Introduction | History | Forum | Newsflash
For Parents Only | Myths & Facts | Deaf can do
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:44 PM   #2
hoichi
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That was a very balanced article, thank you for posting it jeize.
__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now
reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest
treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at
take.....
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Old 08-26-2015, 05:34 PM   #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoichi View Post
You are welcome...
Old 08-26-2015, 05:47 PM   #4
Jane B.
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Balanced???? It seemed to be ALL from the perspective of those that
aid DO NOT IMPLANT!! I feel sure there are those that are grateful
that they got an implant very early.
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ambrosia
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:00 PM   #5
Originally Posted by Jane B. View Post
Well...i found the article to be rather balanced, and certainly not
extreme, it seemed preety even handed about the issue.
Makes sense and allot of food for thought
Its refreshing compared to the usual steady implant propoganda we are
inflicted with by ci adherents and cult followers...
Old 08-26-2015, 06:32 PM   #6
I have been looking for some articles that do state this... nit from
parents or doctors.. but from the deaf adult that was implanted as a
baby.... if you find some or know of them can you shoot them to me in a
pm... I am interested in the full picture... and would appreciate it
Old 08-26-2015, 06:36 PM   #7
Bottesini
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Originally Posted by Jezie View Post
I know several that feel that way. You need to get out in your
community and meet people.
Just reading online isn't going to give a balanced picture at all.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:37 PM   #8
Oh, and I also know some who feel the opposite.
Old 08-26-2015, 06:45 PM   #9
Nic
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It is all from that perspective, the article is mostly opinion, and the
ource is questionable. There are some good points, like the part about
cost and who profits and where there more or less said do some research
before you buy because you can't always trust a salesperson.
We need more first hand accounts, more young adults telling their story
without someone between us and them.
People implanted at < 2 years old are just hitting their prime years
now though, since implanting at that age didn't really start until the
90s. They're just finishing up school and entering the work force.
Hopefully more first hand experiences will come through in the next few
years.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:52 PM   #10
Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
I see you point and agree whole heartedly with you ... the community
here is small... and the pool is smaller ...
Old 08-26-2015, 06:54 PM   #11
I don't know if you are able to move to a bigger place, but online
eems to really bring out the extremists on both sides.
Old 08-26-2015, 06:58 PM   #12
I've met a few who've had early implants. But they were all college
kids in public universities. It's really an unfair sampling. They've
all had good support systems and probably would have been successful
regardless of implants.
That's kind of the danger of it, meeting random folks and getting their
tories, there are hidden imbalances and you might end up meeting folks
who only have one experience or opinion over the other.
There have to be research studies on early implants and success in
HS/college by this point that have come out of Gal or NTID. It might be
too soon though, the current available sample size might still be too
mall.
Old 08-26-2015, 07:06 PM   #13
Crickets
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Well, there aren't many adults yet who were implanted as babies.
According to an Internet search I just did, Cochlear implants were
approved for children in the US around 1990, but I don't know when
babies began receiving them. But even if the first Cochlear implant for
a 12-month-old was done in 1990 (No idea if that's true) that person
would be just 26 now.
Last edited by Crickets; 08-27-2015 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:12 PM   #14
Sadly at this time no... and where I am planning to move I believe is
even smaller than where I am...
Old 08-26-2015, 07:14 PM   #15
Yes implants in babies has been bieng done only since 90s..
Old 08-26-2015, 07:17 PM   #16
That seems to be the nature of the net, prob has to do with the assumed
(not real mind you) anonyminity of it,
Old 08-26-2015, 07:21 PM   #17
Originally Posted by Crickets View Post
would be just 24 now.
Thats one of the plms adherents of ci face. On the one hand they are
religious about the oppurtunities the maricle has showered upon its
blessed implanted babies and children, on the other it has very little
real data to even back it up, considering the babies who have been
inplanted would only be 24 or so tops
Old 08-26-2015, 07:29 PM   #18
Originally Posted by Nic View Post
Right, and when many start telling of the deblitating migrains and
other negative ramifications expect it to be dismissed and scoffed at,
as is the usual.
The thread is new,
The discussion certainly isnt,
Is the site of the op as questionable as ci company sites, pushing A
product to sell?
Maybe, though the op site isnt pushing a product to sell you, it does
have a position and stand on the issue
Personally ive known first hand more early implanted that have had
drastic negative effects from them then havnt. Im not stating non are
out there, just my experience..in person not online to be clear.
Anyway
Im suprised to see this site still up,thought it was long gone...good
to see it
Old 08-26-2015, 07:35 PM   #19
The same can be said for those who say that implanting babies won't
produce positive outcomes - or will prevent them - in the long run...
Little data to back up that argument either. Seems like a good topic
for a few studies. Although with HIPAA laws, an independent researcher
finding those people to study/survey them in a scientific way could be
a challenging task.
Just saying, "I know several people who ended up with migraines," or
"All the people I know with implants love them, " means nothing unless
it's part of scientific research and statistically valid. I've had
migraines my whole life and they're not due to any implant. Unless it
can be shown that people with implants have statistically more health
problems than they would have gotten without implants, there's no way
to know.
Old 08-26-2015, 07:54 PM   #20
finding those people to study/survey them could be a challenging task.
Sure, but to error on the side of caution is the better bet, when it
comes to drilling holes into.babies heads...well for me anyway...
What other product are we implanting in babies on a mass scale using
the above logic?
Is that really the pitch to parents?"we dont have data either way"
The first implants into babies were done in france against medical
opposition by leading surgeons, its important to get a handle of the
ideology that drives it, obviously it had no data to back the cliams
up, and still hardly doesnt regarding the shower of lavish
oppurtunities that awaits an implanted baby if and only if the baby is
implanted..now 25 years on some data will.exist,but when implants were
first pushed none did.
Its interesting because the ci industry resembles big pharma in every
way, how it markets, and manufactures needs to be purchased so on, and
im sure big pharma has its adherents too.
The big idea and paradigm shift big pharma brought to advertising was
the idea not to market the product alone. but instead to market the
illness. The idea was advertising to product wasnt generating the
return....if you market the symptoms...the illness, people will start
to actually see them..and thus want the product, regardless if they
truly need it or not. its a cheap parlour trick in advertising ci also
uses, thus the entire idea of fixing, and ignoring already present
olutions so on.
To bring this back
Its almost absurd one would justify an implant by stating we have no
data either way.
Unless thats a sandard now in medical science
I wonder
Old 08-26-2015, 08:27 PM   #21
There are never going to be guarantees with implants, nor probably
agreement about whether they're appropriate. All parents don't agree on
immunizations or many other decisions regarding health. Most parents
just try to give their kids the best chance of success as they see it
but that's going to mean different things to every parent. Just as
ending a child to an expensive school is no guarantee they'll get into
Harvard, implants don't guarantee that a child will be more successful,
but nothing else will either. That isn't going to stop parents from
pending money in the hope it will improve their children's odds to
have a better life.
Unless implants are shown to not be effective for any child, or to be
very dangerous, why would parents not consider them just as they do
other things? Kids have their tonsils out and other medical procedures
even with a slight risk of death or complications, kids climb trees and
kateboard and do all kinds of things more risky than getting
implanted.
Some parents are going to decide to have their children implanted and
that's not likely to change as long as at least some children benefit
from them and as long as their children are eligible. No choices a
parent makes come with a guarantee.
ambrosia, drphil
Old 08-27-2015, 07:23 AM   #22
HOH-ME
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As a deaf adult who now has CI's, get your deaf baby to the CI clinic
as fast as you can. Life is SOOOOOO much better with sound, speech
understanding and music. I've been on both sides, hearing is FAR better
than not!!
drphil
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:05 AM   #23
I wouldn't trust information from the CI industry anymore than I'd
trust information from that site. They both have clear goals and their
opinion on the matter is out for display prior to reading anything.
Research can and does happen in an unbiased way. Research Universities
are great at it. Then with enough independent studies by different
research universities, clear trends are visible.
Old 08-27-2015, 11:29 AM   #24
outthpaw
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Originally Posted by HOH-ME View Post
Just curious if you are fluent in Sign Language and at what age you
learned it?
I choose Happiness over Society
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:49 PM   #25
[
Well we have been chatting about this for a bit, if this is what you
tate, ill tske yoir word for it, im not going to claim to know what
goes on in your mind.
This isnt just about research, though.
Old 08-27-2015, 12:54 PM   #26
In other words, hearies are so much better then Deaf, they can flap
their lips like good parots, and listen to the soothing sounds of ozzy
osborn, hearies are so much better then second class Deaf,
Get your baby fixed now....
Mmmmm..
Yeah, the net offers this kind of rubish, in person inplants a long
with some teeth prob would be removed....
Meh
Old 08-27-2015, 12:56 PM   #27
Your just ignoring the issues and statng water is wet, yeah life has no
gaurantees...
Ok
Next.....
Old 08-27-2015, 12:59 PM   #28
blondie123
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after mastoid surgery
Ive had 2 surgeries on my ear, one to fix a hole in my ear drum then
another to remove a mastoid tumor which was non cancerous. Has anyone
had any mental issues resulting after their surgery? I dont know if its
from the surgery or if its something else. I had a long recovery after
my second surgery, which resulted in me having a couple respiratory
infections, and my thyroid quit all at once after my surgeries were
over. I was unable to work for almost 2 years, since then I feel more
tressed and etc. I just didnt know if its a result from being so sick
or not. I couldnt stand to be around noises for awhile after my
urgeries. I stayed home where its quiet and still do even though its
been 2 years after my surgery. I dont even think I can hold a job after
the surgery for more than 6 months because of hearing loss. I had so
many headaches for a long time before the surgeries, I never left home,
tayed home and slept, it was just like migranes. Maybe its just the
fear of going through it all again because they told me it was going to
happen with my other ear. I just cried for 2 days after I heard I had a
tumor, the doctor said he didnt know where it came from. Ive tried
college and have quit twice already from being under stress. Please
omeone just give me some advise. And thanks in advance.
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Old 08-27-2015, 01:08 PM   #29
Frisky Feline
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there are TOO many babies at age 5 months old who received CI. It has
been spreading out everywhere. Oh well. I accepted it.
KarissaMann05
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Old 08-27-2015, 01:25 PM   #30
Originally Posted by blondie123 View Post
I suggest making your own thread as this is really off topic. You will
probably get a better response too. This is about parents considering
implants for kids
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