Jane B.

I don't think HOH=ME ever claimed to be anything other than someone that had hearing, lost it, and then was implanted. He then goes on to say that he is grateful for the ability to hear again and recommends it to others including babies.

hoichi

His post was insulting,and condescending, dripping deep in audism...he also says so what regarding implanting our babies, essentially he trolled the thread...he offered no valube imput on the issue, he gloats, and dimisses Deaf on this thread,
And thus he was handled

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

Crickets

Hoichi, you know what comes across as insulting and condescending? Referring to deaf babies as "ours." Other people's deaf babies aren't "yours" and you don't get to have a say in whether they get implanted or not; their parents do. It's a bit creepy when you imply that you know what's best for other people's deaf kids just because you also can't hear. You don't like it when babies get cochlear implants - we get that. But yeah, so what? Parents get to choose the culture their children are brought up in. They get to choose their child's religion, schools, and all kinds of other things for their children. Other people making legal choices for their babies isn't any of my business and isn't any of yours, either.

Jane B.

This forum is "Alldeaf" so you are going to have to recognize that all different viewpoints have an equal right to be expressed (and will be).

LoveBlue

I believe this forum was created mainly for those who were born deaf (medically) and are immersed in Deaf culture now, either from birth or later (if they were raised orally).

The fact that they tolerate those of us who are deaf/HoH and have not chosen to learn ASL and immerse ourselves in Deaf culture is appreciated by myself. I know I have probably made audist statements in the few years I've been here and I apologize for that.

Just as it is hard for me to imagine what it is like to grow up deaf, I'm sure it is hard for those who were born deaf or lost their hearing at a young age to imagine what it is like to hear.

__________________
Severe-to-profound hearing loss in both ears.
SD @ 110db L-62% / 100db R-84% - unaided
Phonak Naida IX UPs

HOH-ME

You are wrong. I am deaf, but my deafness has been fixed with CI's.

Just curious--for those that think HA's and CI's are evil, do you wear glasses or would you wear them if your sight required it????

No, this forum is Hearing Aids and Cochlear Implants .

shel90

One mother in a parent of deaf and hoh children FB group claim that it is because of her son's 2nd implant, he is in advanced math.

Ok if people are implanting babies which is their business BUT that view that this mother holds will be rampant in which will leave those deaf who don't have implants with a stigma as if they aren't as smart, functioning, or as valued as those who have implants.

These audist views that does nobody any good and I see examples of those views here in this thread. Seriously?

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

Jane B.

I was referring to the entire forum. It is divided into sections one of which is Hearing Aids and Cochlear Implants. I do feel that these comments you have made here are in the right section.

soutthpaw

The part I don't get is why someone with hearing loss that functions in a totally hearing world and does not sign, is not on The AG Bell, or CI focused forums/communities. To come here and preach audism seems a bit like trolling?

__________________
I choose Happiness over Society

drphil

Isn't the name of this forum "ALLDEAF.Com"?
Thus "presumably" the DEAF who use a Cochlear Implant can be part and not be considered- "trolling?

__________________
Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

LoveBlue

As far as I know, you're the only DEAF person on this forum. The rest of us are either deaf or Deaf.

__________________
Severe-to-profound hearing loss in both ears.
SD @ 110db L-62% / 100db R-84% - unaided
Phonak Naida IX UPs

hoichi

[



They are as much ours as any born to any cultural or linguistic minoority. Be insulted all you want..meh


Indeed water is wet. actually parents should give a listen to what we are trying to inform them off. Yeah i get it, your the kind to be easily manipuluted by marketing and false promises, clearly just a typical religious adherent, unable to see past you idol...and maricle cure...meh

Thats not the reason at all....what is very creepy, is the religious devotion you share in frothing at the mouth visions of implantng our babies....yeah this assimilation is creepy...

Your just dismissing us Deaf in this statement.....


what is happining, the implants the assimilation, the attacks on my people and culture, our language..is My bussiness.
Whether audist like you, like it or not..

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

hoichi

Never stated otherwise.

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

hoichi

This forum is allDeaf, the subforum is hearing aids and ci.
Comparing glasses to.ci doesnt hold, as it ignores culture and language, and history, and the effects of this technology of normalization and assimilation on our future.

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

hoichi

Thats not the issue...allDeafis open to everyine, Deaf, deaf, hearies..
And you know it

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

hoichi

There is prob a deaF and a dEaf, and a deAf on here too

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

BleedingPurist

Nope. They only become this so-called "cultural or linguistic minority" by deprivation of both a sense and their natural culture. Their natural culture is the one they are born into within their family.

A tiny group of Deafies salivating over an infant born into the world with a broken sense, hungry to grab them from their families and natural culture to make them like them is creepy. Their lack of or limitation in that sense doesn't automatically make them one of yours anymore than an adult going deaf does. There are ways to prevent their being sucked into a culture that depends on inability to interact with the world at large, just like becoming religious can be staved off by education.

I'm for full access for children born or going deaf. They can decide as they get older if they want to be part of or even like your world. They'll have that choice versus just defaulting because they have no choice.

This is a great thread! Any parent with half a brain reading it is going to do everything they can for their child to access world at large versus handing them over to deaf adherents that use cultish "logic."

It really is bizarre that a "late-deafened" individual shows no signs of ever having actually been that and is one of those being loudest about "culture"... a culture you were never born into and is not really yours... which explains the loud protesting whereas one who actually was born into it would be more likely to have a live and let live approach.

hoichi

[




Nope. Sign is the birth right language for Deaf....
Its not so called. We ARE a culture, sign IS a language, and we ARE a minority...areyou arguing we Deaf are the majority??



We are actually not a tiny group...you seem to be an expert on us...let me ask you something, to help gauge your expertise here
Do you sign?


Our culture doesnt depend on inability, your adudism betrays you..our culture rests on ability. Sign is an ability...not a lacking


So you say, excuse me if i feel your full of it..


It truly is, i havnt seen audism like this come out the sewers for a while...your bigotry is shinning



Its not that bizzare at all. Your post just betrays your utter lack of knowlege of us our history and how we accept people.
I was hearie for 9 years of my life...ive been Deaf a signer for 30...
Our history is full of people that went Deaf just like me at my age who were Deaf and accepted as Deaf,even in leadership positions, storytellers, poets, bizzare....? its not. rare it is not!..You havnt the faintest clue what your on about.
I wont school you here to much, because i know your not sencere...
But give a read of our history, and you will find many many kids that went Deaf, as Deaf. And accepted as such...a famous example would be veditz, of the preservation of sign language fame...we accept you, and our culture becomes yours when you sign and are one of us...or when your born one of us, when sign is denied you...we feel its your birthright language...
Yeah you sit there an authoritaran wagging a finger at me about a culture your posts clearly show you know little about..and you expect to be taken seriously.....
Spare me..
Live and let live? Pls by all means leave our babies and kids the hell alone...take your fetish drils and messiah tech and shove it where i signs dont shine....

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

KarissaMann05

But, Deaf babies aren't yours. We can just educate those parents about our subculture. But, if they don't want ASL, then there is nothing that we can do.

It's little weird to claim Deaf babies are your children.

__________________

Jezie

Curious...How are you deaf though? "Its fixed"...


Yes, but I also would not join a blind group and claim I am part of it.



Actually the thread is for CI the fourm is alldeaf...

Jezie

Curious... childern as a whole are generally consider "ours" in one way or another... we as a society are or often feel responsible for childern... maybe its the whole "it takes a village" adage... but it does stand to reason that one would feel that a child is part of his or her society or identity if they are born or obtain a classifying freature of it .... hmm really does not surprise me woth how much better African Americans fair compared to other minorities....

hoichi

If your refering to me, im using standard language any minority group does. When we state our people , (any minority group), its not literally using a property defination. As in. People are actually mine. So on
Im not the first to use this language in regards to sign being a birthright for our culture and people...its stretches back a fair ways actually...you can even find it in nad literature. And british Deaf literature too.
Its not ncommon.or rare for minority groups to actually use possesive terms such as this.."our people", "our children", "our language", "our culture"...ive never used nor will i ever use mine,or my..( in regards to babies or children) for obvious reasons...but i have used and do use my people in reference to Deaf, and my language and our language in reference to sign
Even the secular state uses terms such as this as well in a number of ways..
Its not that rare..

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

dogmom

Some years ago, my parents and I were having a conversation, in which the topic of bagels came up. I don't recall how we got to it and or the immediate preceding sentence to the following but what I remember <and how this post relates to hoich's above> is that my mom said "they aren't ours anymore, Moishe".
Moishe is my dad's Jewish name.
That is the bagels aren't "ours" - as in the cultural, ethnic definition.
Most people in the U.S. now know what bagels are and you don't have to go to Chicago or N.Y. to get them
But it's an example - one of many that has taken place in my experience - of "peoplehood"
like Deaf are a cultural group...Deaf being the people of the eye in most instances

shel90

Inability to interact with hearing people? You just demoralized a group of people who have been able to purchase cars, homes, go out in the community, and raise hearing kids with success. You have a audist view.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

ambrosia

Meh, that wasn't an "article". It was an opinion piece, more like a blog. It was full of bias and unsubstantiated opinion. No evidence, no research, just anecdotes, we know this guy, there's a couple of cases. Poo on that.

I saw someone wondering about people who implanted early. I have an ancedotal case for that. I'm a massage therapist, when I was going to school for it my loss was severe in one ear, profound in the other. I did not use an aid in my profound ear, only my severe one. There was a guy in my class that was Deaf and had a CI. At the time (2007) he was maybe 24-26. So now he'd be about 33-35. Anyway, he used an interpreter, but he communicated with us well. Not sure exactly how old he was but he didn't really have a typical deaf accent, he had one, but not the recognizable deaf accent you usually hear so I think he got it fairly young, elementary age maybe. Later on we ended up working at the same place, at this point I had lost more hearing and was relying more heavily on lip reading. He would see/hear me trying to have a conversation with coworkers and he would tell me everyday, EVERY DAY, that I needed to get a CI.

He loved his and highly recommended.

__________________
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today

hoichi

No one has claimed the article isnt an opinion piece..
Not sure why thats an issue,
Obviously in regards to bias, or opinion oriented web sights... ci companies are biased they after all are a bussiness with a product line to peddle...
As all bussiness exist again obviously to make a profit, im sure the stock holders in ci corps certainly would agree.
We Deaf dont see the drive, push and manipulation towards assimiliation in our best interests, we have always resisted and opposed it, seeing it exactly for what it is..."oralisms final solution"....we do not see it at all in the best interests for our babies implanted against there will..it certainly IS very much in the interests and profit of the ci corps, not us..
My interests is with my people, our future, wich is our babies and our young, not in feeding conpanies profit margins..my interest is in the preservation and advancment of my culture and our language..that are constantly attacked and threatened by ci and rhe professionals peddling it....the assimilation is a travesty and the future will look back on it as such....
Yeah i get it..
Your a new ci adherent..
Meh

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

ambrosia

Hiochi man I love you, even though this an area we will never in a million years agree on, but I gotta say.......you're the who said it was "balanced". That was about as far from balanced as you could get.

__________________
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today

hoichi

Ah.......(blushes).... your too kind ambrosia....thank you girl....
(Lights joint)
Indeed we wont agree in this issue CI....all cool..well i thought the article was balanced....but i know to others it msy seem a bit extreme...its certainly not more.extreme then the push to implant...if anything the stand not to early implant is a more moderate stand then the rush to implant.
Good to see....
As always...

__________________
..."sign will set you free". a genie signed to me. as a mirror now reflect it. to other hands into other eyes, signs our greatest treasure, its light wants to be shared
..im ...that shadow with a cigarette, A Deaf guy who knows whats at stake.....

Jane B.

Not surprising but we don't seem to agree about what "balanced" means to each of us.

In the context of an article I think of a "balanced" one as giving information about both sides of an issue.

soutthpaw

Hoichi's view is about as balanced as that of the Tea Party!

__________________
I choose Happiness over Society