Otologics carina implant, anyone? - Page 2

mlb 10th inning · 04-03-2012, 02:20 AM

I found a rare article.

Don't ask me how I found it. (I had to make phone calls in order to find this stuff)

Sweet sound published by the House Research Institute

"One of the principal advantages of implantable hearing aids is that they directly transfer the amplified signal into vibrational energy, which drives the ear," says Jonathan Spindel, a biomedical engineer at James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Va. "You've taken out the step that degrades the signal." Avoiding Feedback

That's in theory. Actually getting there has been a challenge. Since the microphone is under the skin, the device must be specially adjusted to cancel out all the sounds of the body itself. Otologics, for example, found that the sound of skin rubbing over the microphone can cause feedback every time a patient moves his or her head, and the patient's voice reverberating through the skull cavity is also picked up.

Tweaking the adjustments on the device appears to minimize these problems. In a first clinical trial of patients published last year in the journal Otolaryngology, patients who received the Otologics Carina implant in only one ear performed slightly worse on hearing tests than with the conventional hearing aids they had used before the surgery.

But in the company's second, still unpublished clinical trial before which tweaks were made patients heard more clearly than people in the first trial as well as those with conventional hearing aids. Of the 10 people tested, two had to have the device removed because of a technical glitch that has since been corrected, says ear surgeon Drew Horlbeck, who headed the trial at Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. Of the other eight, most say the implant is "as good as a hearing aid, and a few of them feel it's better," says Dr. Horlbeck, who is currently working in Jacksonville, Fla."

According to the published article, the Carina's Implantable microphone is 100 percent effective (better than conventional hearing aids) in the second trial. This is very important because the Cochlear Ltd. is borrowing Otologic's exact Implantable microphone for the Totally Implantable C.I.

So, believe it or not, the Totally Implantable Cochlear Implant's microphone is already 100 percent perfect (just like the Carina's mic in the second clinical trial).

This should answer a lot of questions in this forum.

Also, there is one thing that has been driving me crazy!! The Carina and Envoy were about on the same pace in clinical trials. The Envoy got FDA-approved in 2010. The Carina was anticipated to get approved in 2010, too. But, for some reason, all the way up to 2012 it's still not approved in the USA. What is going on with that? The Carina has been commercially available (CE mark) in Europe since 2006. Come on! Get approved in the US already. Then they can get the Totally Implantable Cochlear Implant rolling.

mlb 10th inning · 08-02-2012, 09:36 PM

Cochlear said this...

Cochlear, he says, is moving towards trials, with key hurdles, such as a battery that is recharged through the skin and a problematic implanted microphone, already overcome.

Cochlear is the owner of Otologics. The french cochlear implant company Neurelec and Otologics got in lawsuit problems. Cochlear is the winner!

.

maari vekki · 09-21-2015, 07:36 AM

Hello Forum.
I am VERY glad I found you.

I am considering having a Carina device implanted. I am trying to collect as much information as I can before making such a big step. Are there any more recent news about it?

I have been using external hearing aid device for decades. Now I am simply tired, would like to make my life just simpler. I suffer from moderate hearing loss, both ears (going to worsen in old age).

It seems IMPOSSIBLE to speak to someone who actually had this kind of surgery and is actually using the device.

So I should be soooo grateful if someone could give me a precious feedback about their experience. (Including Harder65! Please!)

Thanks so much. Congrats on the Forum.

drphil · 09-21-2015, 02:05 PM

Given the cost factor- surgery etc. how does one know that there will no further increase in their hearing loss? What then? Another operation?

As I commented #25, Jan 11/12 not much consideration for more trials.

deafdyke · 09-22-2015, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maari vekki

Hello Forum.
I am VERY glad I found you.

I am considering having a Carina device implanted. I am trying to collect as much information as I can before making such a big step. Are there any more recent news about it?

I have been using external hearing aid device for decades. Now I am simply tired, would like to make my life just simpler. I suffer from moderate hearing loss, both ears (going to worsen in old age).

It seems IMPOSSIBLE to speak to someone who actually had this kind of surgery and is actually using the device.

So I should be soooo grateful if someone could give me a precious feedback about their experience. (Including Harder65! Please!)

Thanks so much. Congrats on the Forum.

If it's progressive, I doubt that you'd be eligable, since you'd just be getting a CI soon anyway.

deafdyke · 09-22-2015, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlb 10th inning

I found a rare article.

Don't ask me how I found it. (I had to make phone calls in order to find this stuff)

Sweet sound published by the House Research Institute

"One of the principal advantages of implantable hearing aids is that they directly transfer the amplified signal into vibrational energy, which drives the ear," says Jonathan Spindel, a biomedical engineer at James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Va. "You've taken out the step that degrades the signal." Avoiding Feedback

That's in theory. Actually getting there has been a challenge. Since the microphone is under the skin, the device must be specially adjusted to cancel out all the sounds of the body itself. Otologics, for example, found that the sound of skin rubbing over the microphone can cause feedback every time a patient moves his or her head, and the patient's voice reverberating through the skull cavity is also picked up.

Tweaking the adjustments on the device appears to minimize these problems. In a first clinical trial of patients published last year in the journal Otolaryngology, patients who received the Otologics Carina implant in only one ear performed slightly worse on hearing tests than with the conventional hearing aids they had used before the surgery.

But in the company's second, still unpublished clinical trial before which tweaks were made patients heard more clearly than people in the first trial as well as those with conventional hearing aids. Of the 10 people tested, two had to have the device removed because of a technical glitch that has since been corrected, says ear surgeon Drew Horlbeck, who headed the trial at Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. Of the other eight, most say the implant is "as good as a hearing aid, and a few of them feel it's better," says Dr. Horlbeck, who is currently working in Jacksonville, Fla."

According to the published article, the Carina's Implantable microphone is 100 percent effective (better than conventional hearing aids) in the second trial. This is very important because the Cochlear Ltd. is borrowing Otologic's exact Implantable microphone for the Totally Implantable C.I.

So, believe it or not, the Totally Implantable Cochlear Implant's microphone is already 100 percent perfect (just like the Carina's mic in the second clinical trial).

This should answer a lot of questions in this forum.

Also, there is one thing that has been driving me crazy!! The Carina and Envoy were about on the same pace in clinical trials. The Envoy got FDA-approved in 2010. The Carina was anticipated to get approved in 2010, too. But, for some reason, all the way up to 2012 it's still not approved in the USA. What is going on with that? The Carina has been commercially available (CE mark) in Europe since 2006. Come on! Get approved in the US already. Then they can get the Totally Implantable Cochlear Implant rolling.

Been three years since this article.......hmmm where is it? I think you do have to be very skeptical of claims such as these.....I mean big companies can and do use the power of the net to self promote, and get things hyped up for their product. Also the mention of the Completely Implantable CI reminded me of that dude from years ago who was completely and totally fixtated on it.

maari vekki · 09-23-2015, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drphil

Given the cost factor- surgery etc. how does one know that there will no further increase in their hearing loss? What then? Another operation?

As I commented #25, Jan 11/12 not much consideration for more trials.

Thank you for your comments.

Dr. Phil - if I may address you personally - future further hearing loss is supposed to take place at least very slowly. How long is supposed to last a device? 10 years? 15, if you're very lucky?
So why not enjoy a few years respite compared to always wearing - or not *always* wearing - an external hearing aid?

Is there anyone with an actual experience with the Carina device that would like to share it in this forum? That would help so much.

(FYI, other kinds of CIs are not suitable for me, so either I go for a Carina or I stick to outfitted hearing devices.)

drphil · 09-23-2015, 02:23 PM

maari vekki: Some thoughts based on past experience. I have had hearing aids from the middle 60s to December 2006. I became bilateral DEAF. on the 20th.

I never considered wearing one then two as much of a problem.

The speed of increasing hearing loss is highly specific to each person.

It is my clear understanding that Cochlear Implants are not comparable to Hearing aids which only increase sound. Thus one can hear-somewhat.

I have no comment on your understanding that Cochear Implants are "unsuitable" for you

Does the lack of much comment on Carina here in Alldeaf.com seems " to suggest" not a widely practiced?

deafdyke · 09-23-2015, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maari vekki

Thank you for your comments.

Dr. Phil - if I may address you personally - future further hearing loss is supposed to take place at least very slowly. How long is supposed to last a device? 10 years? 15, if you're very lucky?
So why not enjoy a few years respite compared to always wearing - or not *always* wearing - an external hearing aid?

Is there anyone with an actual experience with the Carina device that would like to share it in this forum? That would help so much.

(FYI, other kinds of CIs are not suitable for me, so either I go for a Carina or I stick to outfitted hearing devices.)

What's wrong with wearing an external aid?

jag · 10-17-2015, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drphil

maari vekki:

It is my clear understanding that Cochlear Implants are not comparable to Hearing aids which only increase sound. Thus one can hear-somewhat.

I have no comment on your understanding that Cochear Implants are "unsuitable" for you

Does the lack of much comment on Carina here in Alldeaf.com seems " to suggest" not a widely practiced?

Having worn HA's and now CI they are very different. So different I just got my 2nd CI.

If the Carina is basically the same as Envoy I'd say approach with caution. From what I see of the Envoy, you will probably lose the middle ear conduction system (bones, the device is somehow placed in there) Plus Envoy is a cash only internal HA (most insurance does not cover it last I heard). It's also an, if it works you'll love it, but if it doesn't...........you're probably out a lot of $$

It's an exciting technology and hopefully someday people won't have to bother with pesky external devices.

While this is not a technology that is of benefit to any in my family at this time because of it's limitations, it is in my follow and see how it does category.

Just need more people to do it to see how well it really works, unfortunately unless insurance begins paying for it not enough feed back will be heard.

09-21-2015, 02:05 PM	#34
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,793 Likes: 121 Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts	Given the cost factor- surgery etc. how does one know that there will no further increase in their hearing loss? What then? Another operation? As I commented #25, Jan 11/12 not much consideration for more trials. __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

09-23-2015, 02:23 PM	#38
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,793 Likes: 121 Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts	maari vekki: Some thoughts based on past experience. I have had hearing aids from the middle 60s to December 2006. I became bilateral DEAF. on the 20th. I never considered wearing one then two as much of a problem. The speed of increasing hearing loss is highly specific to each person. It is my clear understanding that Cochlear Implants are not comparable to Hearing aids which only increase sound. Thus one can hear-somewhat. I have no comment on your understanding that Cochear Implants are "unsuitable" for you Does the lack of much comment on Carina here in Alldeaf.com seems " to suggest" not a widely practiced? __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

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04-03-2012, 02:20 AM	#31
mlb 10th inning Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: LA dodgers Posts: 238 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I found a rare article. Don't ask me how I found it. (I had to make phone calls in order to find this stuff) Sweet sound published by the House Research Institute "One of the principal advantages of implantable hearing aids is that they directly transfer the amplified signal into vibrational energy, which drives the ear," says Jonathan Spindel, a biomedical engineer at James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Va. "You've taken out the step that degrades the signal." Avoiding Feedback That's in theory. Actually getting there has been a challenge. Since the microphone is under the skin, the device must be specially adjusted to cancel out all the sounds of the body itself. Otologics, for example, found that the sound of skin rubbing over the microphone can cause feedback every time a patient moves his or her head, and the patient's voice reverberating through the skull cavity is also picked up. Tweaking the adjustments on the device appears to minimize these problems. In a first clinical trial of patients published last year in the journal Otolaryngology, patients who received the Otologics Carina implant in only one ear performed slightly worse on hearing tests than with the conventional hearing aids they had used before the surgery. But in the company's second, still unpublished clinical trial before which tweaks were made patients heard more clearly than people in the first trial as well as those with conventional hearing aids. Of the 10 people tested, two had to have the device removed because of a technical glitch that has since been corrected, says ear surgeon Drew Horlbeck, who headed the trial at Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. Of the other eight, most say the implant is "as good as a hearing aid, and a few of them feel it's better," says Dr. Horlbeck, who is currently working in Jacksonville, Fla." According to the published article, the Carina's Implantable microphone is 100 percent effective (better than conventional hearing aids) in the second trial. This is very important because the Cochlear Ltd. is borrowing Otologic's exact Implantable microphone for the Totally Implantable C.I. So, believe it or not, the Totally Implantable Cochlear Implant's microphone is already 100 percent perfect (just like the Carina's mic in the second clinical trial). This should answer a lot of questions in this forum. Also, there is one thing that has been driving me crazy!! The Carina and Envoy were about on the same pace in clinical trials. The Envoy got FDA-approved in 2010. The Carina was anticipated to get approved in 2010, too. But, for some reason, all the way up to 2012 it's still not approved in the USA. What is going on with that? The Carina has been commercially available (CE mark) in Europe since 2006. Come on! Get approved in the US already. Then they can get the Totally Implantable Cochlear Implant rolling.

08-02-2012, 09:36 PM	#32
mlb 10th inning Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: LA dodgers Posts: 238 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Cochlear said this... Cochlear, he says, is moving towards trials, with key hurdles, such as a battery that is recharged through the skin and a problematic implanted microphone, already overcome. Cochlear is the owner of Otologics. The french cochlear implant company Neurelec and Otologics got in lawsuit problems. Cochlear is the winner! .

09-21-2015, 07:36 AM	#33
maari vekki Registered User Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Europe Posts: 2 Likes: 4 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Forum. I am VERY glad I found you. I am considering having a Carina device implanted. I am trying to collect as much information as I can before making such a big step. Are there any more recent news about it? I have been using external hearing aid device for decades. Now I am simply tired, would like to make my life just simpler. I suffer from moderate hearing loss, both ears (going to worsen in old age). It seems IMPOSSIBLE to speak to someone who actually had this kind of surgery and is actually using the device. So I should be soooo grateful if someone could give me a precious feedback about their experience. (Including Harder65! Please!) Thanks so much. Congrats on the Forum.