Site Map | Member Login PayPal — The safer, easier way to pay online. Search this site: _______________ Search Home The Institute of Employment Rights A think tank for the labour movement * About Us * Our Work * News * Publications * Events * Blog * Subscribe * Resources * Coalition Timeline * Contact Join our mailing list Enter your email: _______________ Go PayPal — The safer, easier way to pay online. Home Migrants bring net profit to UK – let's silence the myths and talk about the real problems Submitted by sglenister on Thu, 07/11/2013 - 11:22 07 November 2013 By Sarah Glenister, IER Staff Immigration has been a hot topic for years, and one that is unlikely to disappear anytime soon, but new research shows the perception of 'benefit tourism' is a myth indicates the dialogue on this subject needs to change. A study conducted by Professor Christian Dustmann and Dr Tommaso Frattini of University College London's migration research unit demonstrates that migrants arriving in the UK since 2000 have made a net contribution to the public purse of £25 billion and are 45% less likely to claim benefits or tax credits. They are also 3% less likely to live in social housing. Migrants arriving from European Economic Area countries (Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein in addition to EU member states) contributed around 34% more in taxes than they received in benefits between 2001 to 2011, the research showed. They were also highly skilled and more likely to have a university degree than the British. Meanwhile, people arriving in the UK from further afield paid about 2% more to the Treasury than they received. "Our research shows that … the UK attracts highly educated and skilled immigrants," Professor Dustmann stated. "What's more, immigrants who arrived since 2000 have made a very sizeable net fiscal contribution and therefore helped to reduce the fiscal burden on UK-born workers … Given this evidence, claims about 'benefit tourism' by EEA immigrants seem to be disconnected from reality," he added. The research follows the release of statistical evidence from the European Commission that flew in the face of the government's line that migrants are attracted to the UK in order to take advantage of the welfare state. Despite this, the Home Office continues to refer to 'benefit tourism' in support of its new Immigration Bill. But the Institute of Employment Rights (IER) believes the real issue of immigration is not a question of border control, nor of public finance, but of the exploitation of a foreign workforce that is particularly vulnerable. Current public policy and employment law provides too many opportunities for the exploitation of workers by unethical employers, which applies a downward pressure on the living standards of us all. In our 2005 report Labour Migration and Employment Rights, it was argued that workers should not be seen as a commodity like any other. The cost/benefit approach favoured by New Labour, and the restrictive policies preferred by the Conservative Party were both criticised, and a rights-based model was proposed. This would force focus onto the treatment of workers by employers and how exploitation creates many of the problems associated with immigration – or at least those problems which are not in themselves myths. This is especially important in light of recent sociological research showing that the perceived failure of migrants to culturally integrate is false. In fact, a growing proportion of minorities in the UK are born of parents of differing nationalities, showing that migrants are integrating into British culture in the most intimate of ways. However, segregation does continue, but it is economic segregation, not cultural, showing that migrant workers continue to receive lower wages. On Wednesday 20 November, the IER will launch an update on the 2005 book called Labour Migration in Hard Times at a conference of the same name. The authors of the new publication – the UK's leading experts in the field – will present their findings at the all-day conference, which is particularly timely as the Immigration Bill proceeds through parliament. Immigration must not be allowed to become an issue of the right-wing, as there are measures that can be taken to reduce exploitation and the sinking living standards that accompany it. We must combat the government-peddled myths on migrant workers, which risk boosting support for a knee-jerk reaction to cap migration. This could easily reduce skilled labour in this country and do untold damage to our economy. It is up to us to educate ourselves on the alternatives and to raise awareness of them. To make this possible, the IER is offering a huge 45% discount on entry to the Labour Migration in Hard Times conference when you quote the discount code: 2450. Click here to find out more. * Login to post comments * Blog * Blog This website relies on the use of cookies to function correctly. We understand your continued use of the site as agreement to this. IER, 4th Floor, Jack Jones House, 1 Islington, Liverpool, L3 8EG , Tel: 0151 207 5265, General Enquiries | Back to the top | © IER 2012 #alternate Amazon * Your Amazon.co.uk * Today's Deals * Gift Cards * Sell * Help GCSPORTS20 Shop by Department Search All [All Departments_____________] ____________________ Go Hello. Sign in Your Account Try Prime Basket 0 Wish List * Amazon.co.uk * Warehouse Deals * Subscribe & Save * Amazon Family * Outlet * Amazon Prime * Mobile Apps * Amazon Toolbar * Amazon Local (What are Customer Discussions?) Customer Discussions > politics discussion forum the left and the influx of migrant workers. See latest post Sort: Oldest first | Newest first Showing 1-25 of 102 posts in this discussion Initial post: 14 Mar 2012 01:48:34 GMT Mr. M. Bounds says: as someone who has left wing leanings. i feel to be accepted by political parties like, the socialist workers party, i have to swallow my growing concern at the massive influx of migrant workers into the country. i have worked in a dept where out of 140 staff, 5 were british. the rest mostly east european. the left are protesting about capitalism and its evils but strangly silent on this issue of big business encourging migrant workers into the country to take low paying jobs instead of paying people a decent wage to do these jobs, thus reducing costs and raising profits to re invest. the unions are silent and i feel that it all boils down to not wanting to be branded a racist, but i do feel the workers of this country are being forgotten about. views on this please. Report abuse 12 of 14 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 07:19:36 GMT Molly Brown says: I read somewhere, Guardian I think, regarding the enforcement of the minimum wage that a city the size of Birmingham has just eight (2009) NMW enforcement officers. I bet they have a hell of lot more Benefit Fraud investigators. Report abuse 5 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 10:24:35 GMT gille liath says: I wonder. In my experience there aren't a lot of those, either. But both things are equally fraud, and equally taking from those who can least afford to lose. In answer to the OP - I agree. What else can I say?... Report abuse 3 of 4 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 11:15:07 GMT SundayAfternoon says: To oppose open borders is to be racist, by definition. What you are suffering from is cognitive dissonance. The Frankfurt school's dominant morality teaches one thing (discrimination on the basis of ethnicity, sexual orientation, nationality, religion etc is pathological) your human nature another (your homeland is being transformed by an unaccountable ruling class without your consent being sought or granted). Discrimination in this context must surely include denial of the right to live where in the world you please. If a business does not make a profit it closes, unless it can steal the profits of better run businesses via redistributive taxation. If the money brought in by employing an individual does not cover the cost of employment and cover liabilities etc, then that job will not be created. The minimum wage system together with the possibility for those so inclined to play the entitlement system (are you a fool if you dont? - our ruling classes in the Lords and Commons are all up to it!, and as for the Banksters...) are destroying the moral structure of Britain for ordinary workers. The state can not simply go on printing money to pay people to live on the dole whilst keeping its foot jamming the door open to those seeking a better life than Eastern Europe or the developing world offer. All systems that simply cant go on eventually end. How will our nation end up?. Report abuse 4 of 8 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 11:28:13 GMT Last edited by the author on 14 Mar 2012 11:29:36 GMT gille liath says: "To oppose open borders is to be racist, by definition" No it isn't. However that is a convenient argument for those who don't want to pay the minimum wage. "The state can not simply go on printing money to pay people to live on the dole whilst keeping its foot jamming the door open to those seeking a better life than Eastern Europe or the developing world offer." The point is, that if it cracked down on immigrants working under-price, it might not need to pay out so much dole. Report abuse 6 of 8 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 11:52:21 GMT Last edited by the author on 14 Mar 2012 11:56:18 GMT James Taylor says: You say 'To oppose open borders is to be racist, by definition.' Why? I think it is quite possible to think of all races as equal but to want to protect our way of life. A friend of mine explains how the school she went to is now a no go area to white British people. Leicester is now 60% Muslim so I hear, and I'm sure that many other cities are not far behind. Things are changing fast, and many of us are very uncertain of our children's future. The racist card is out of date, highly manipulative, and most of us feel insulted when accused because it shows a complete misunderstanding of the way we actually feel. I.e., we know that we live in a highly unstable world, we wish our governments would stop trying to save the world (LOL. What a mess they are causing everywhere they go) and we wish that we could feel a bit more optimistic about our children's future. I used to think that it was wonderful to have a great diversity of cultures in Britain: Now, like many others I'm sure, I feel very afraid of the consequences of our naivety. Report abuse 7 of 13 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 12:01:58 GMT William Podmore says: Mass immigration assets-strips the countries of origin, lowers wages and increases house prices and rents here, especially for poorer workers. Three-quarters of us believe that immigration has put too much pressure on health, education and transport. Since 2004, the number of people from eastern Europe working here in Britain increased by 600,000. Over the same period, the number of unemployed young people here increased from 575,000 to more than a million. Last year, employment of British-born workers fell by more than 200,000 and employment of non-British-born workers rose by more than 200,000, to more than 4.1 million. East European workers are more willing to work for lower wages: 89 per cent of them earned less than �400 a week, compared to 57 per cent of British-born workers. Many of the locals who compete to get low-skilled jobs are black or Asian, while the new immigrants are white. Controlling immigration is not racist. The EU, the employers and the `left' all back the free movement of labour. The `left' claims that workers can't distinguish between immigration controls and racism, but the `left' defines immigration controls as racist, so they are the ones who cannot distinguish between immigration controls and racism. Where are British workers supposed to work, if not in Britain? Who is supposed to do the jobs in Britain, if not British workers? No to the free movement of labour. This is the Communist Party of Britain Marxist-Leninist position. Report abuse 10 of 13 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 12:29:46 GMT Keyboard Paladin says: " Leicester is now 60% Muslim so I hear, and I'm sure that many other cities are not far behind." Lol, why don't you look up the facts before you post such nonsense, it is a large south Asian community comprising of Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs. And last I read on the population of Muslims in this country it was 2million out of 60 million, approximately 10% of the Muslim population in this country are converts as well. Take your daily mail 'Muslims are taking over England' somewhere else. Report abuse 10 of 18 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 12:40:26 GMT SundayAfternoon says: So long as you recoil and say 'I'm not racist but -' when opposing this global social engineering carried out by our ruling classes you have already conceded defeat. This is a class war, you dont have to be Marxist to recognise class conflict. Sean Gabb has a recent talk on youtube on the subject, and Ralph Raico puts Marxist class conflict theory in a the classical liberal context from which it was originally borrowed. The Blair regime undertook the open door immigration policy to 'rub the right's nose in multiculturalism'; 'the right' in this context, are those whom new labour's students of Adorno would consider 'racist'. All those I know in the 'socialist workers' and the former 'revolutionary communists' approved of the policy. Blair himself is on the record as saying that it has enormously improved England. Many English people have married recent immigrants, these people (in my experience) especially are understandably repulsed by the idea of restricting numbers. And yes, home trained engineers and doctors as well as secretaries and cleaners find themselves undercut in wages by new arrivals. Mandelson IIRC has told the indigenous British unemployed to seek work elsewhere in the world, after all, he got a wonderful well paid job in Brussels despite the little scandals surrounding his departure from London. Report abuse 5 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 12:47:56 GMT Last edited by the author on 14 Mar 2012 12:49:59 GMT James Taylor says: K K, I'm so sorry, I meant Asian. Do you spend your entire life reading papers and posting in these forums? Report abuse 4 of 11 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 12:52:42 GMT Keyboard Paladin says: I agree with you mostly but spare a thought for the instances that British workers do not want to do some jobs as well. I live in London and practically all the cleaners I have seen are European and of African origin, take aways are mostly Asian filled staff, I'm sure there are more examples as well. Also I have seen documentaries where employers get more for their money when they hire non British workers as they try to impress more, I am a builder by trade and just the other day I met a polish builder who works for around two thirds what I charge and works around the job, which meant on this particular project he was up with his employers till 5am, I do not begrudge him at all, he works hard and he deserves his success (he drives an A4 which I'm a little jealous of), many a time people complain of being over priced by our British counterparts as compared to ethnics minorities who come and do the same job for much less. Let's face it its a global economy and if we were running a business we would do as much as we can to make the most profit, admittedly some of us would be more considerate but very few of these kinds of business survive. Report abuse 4 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 12:55:57 GMT Keyboard Paladin says: Apology accepted and no, but perhaps you should try reading other papers for a change Report abuse 3 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 13:09:23 GMT James Taylor says: The figures aren't really relevant to the post anyway. Figures can be presented to prove almost any argument you choose, but a walk through almost any city will affirm the thrust of my post. Did you say you were Muslim bought up in Britain? Re the paper reading: I'm a very busy man. Report abuse 1 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 13:19:29 GMT Last edited by the author on 14 Mar 2012 13:23:26 GMT James Taylor says: Let's just say that we all live in very uncertain times, and the best thing we can do is to build as many bridges between us as possible. This is the only way forward. Anyway, I'll duck out of this discussion now because we've gone way off track. All the best to everyone in the discussion. Report abuse 1 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 15:03:12 GMT Last edited by the author on 28 Mar 2012 23:44:13 BDT Keyboard Paladin says: what? figures arent relavent! wasn't it you who posted that you heard leicester is about 60% muslim!!! and now you say a walk through any city will affirm your post, well again, no it would not because the white population far out number all the non white minorities in the uk. please think before you post. Report abuse 3 of 8 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 15:41:43 GMT Last edited by the author on 14 Mar 2012 15:49:03 GMT James Taylor says: I merely raised a few concerns, then I apologised for getting my figure wrong, then I said that it didn't really matter that the figure was wrong. The rest of that post, as well you know, is complete rubbish. I didn't even mention 'non-whites'! It's a good job that the Muslim friends I have are decent people. People like you are not typical of the Muslim population - it is important that other people know this. Report abuse 2 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 16:08:03 GMT doctor_jeep says: The short answer is that the modern British left betrayed the ordinary working man when it actively connived at the importation of vast quantities of what is effectively scab labour from overseas. Back in the 1920s the bosses shipped scabs in from overseas to break strikes, in the 1960s and 70s it was the unions who waved them in - and an excess of labour is always to the employer's advantage and always drives wages down. No surprise that we've not been anywhere near full employment for decades. How can there be jobs for all when you have no fixed limit on the number of people to be employed? But as long as people are worried about being labelled "racist" then there's nothing they can do - because "racist" is the default label for anyone that opposes mass immigration (whatever race the immingrants happen to be). No idea why the left sold us all out so badly ... some people say it was the Frankfurt school, others say bourgeois infiltration of the labour movement. Both seem a bit paranoid but how the hell else would you explain it? Report abuse 9 of 14 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 18:39:54 GMT Keyboard Paladin says: No you apologised for saying Muslims instead of Asian, I put forward a post to rebuke your hearsay based post. You then posted that a walk through almost any city will affirm the thrust of your post, that is to imply that Muslims (in your mind) are taking over the population, I merely replaced Muslims with non whites as there are other ethnic minorities that aren't Muslim, to illustrate how wrong you are. Lastly you feel the need to tell everyone that people like me are indecent and not typical of the Muslim population. That tickled me. What have I said to give you that impression? At least you are consistent with making things up. It would seem that you prefer the Muslim that doesn't challenge anything you have to say. This isn't a popularity contest, stop patronising people by telling them what to think. Report abuse 5 of 11 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 19:24:42 GMT James Taylor says: What? I don't know what on earth is going on in your head, but it really doesn't tie in with the conversation at all. Listen, if this is your idea of an argument, then so be it. I'll leave you to it - I've had more productive discussions with 5 year old kids. Report abuse 2 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 19:24:58 GMT Spin says: Non-whites? Are they those who spend time and cash on false tans? =) Report abuse 4 of 8 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 19:51:39 GMT Keyboard Paladin says: you shouldn't worry about what's going on in my head but if you wish to continue to debate, give a rebuttal to my posts. You have now raised another disturbing question in that why are you having more productive discussions with 5 year old kids? Report abuse 3 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 20:02:09 GMT James Taylor says: [Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.] [Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Hide post again. (Show all unhelpful posts)] Spin - it's great to hear a touch of humour! KK keep takin them pills Report abuse 1 of 10 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 14 Mar 2012 21:43:21 GMT Keyboard Paladin says: Making more foolish assumptions again....sigh Your are obviously a loser who doesn't have the tools to back up anything he says Report abuse 2 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 21:57:06 GMT Last edited by the author on 14 Mar 2012 22:01:08 GMT psn: P0PC0RN-_-SL4Y3R says: I'm dissapointed by this thread. Are we all too stupid and blind to see that blaming immigrants is not going to solve our problems...? More to the point, I suppose you think its ok for a Brit to be an immigrant in another country right? Maybe if we didnt spend so much time pointing the finger at immigrants we would realise that benefit fraud is a bigger issue, corporate tax evasion is a bigger issue, dodgy expense claims by those who lead our country are a bigger issue, irresponsible lending from our banks was a bigger issue, paying for drugs and alcohol for addicts who are entitled to it as part of their 'treatment' is a bigger issue. Ignorant and racist people will blame immigration for everything, no-one will hold their hands up and say, well actually all of that borrowing we did when we knew we couldn't pay it back could have somthing to do with our current problems. We live in a welfare state were people who cant be ar5ed, get paid for nothing, no wonder everyone wants to live here.... pfffftttttt play the blame game for as long as you want. Report abuse 3 of 4 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 14 Mar 2012 23:43:02 GMT Last edited by the author on 14 Mar 2012 23:47:30 GMT M. Coleman says: The simple answer would be for the UK to leave the EU , then the UK would not have to accept anyone from anywhere if it did not want to . In a talk / panel show on RTE ( in Dublin ) on Monday night , a muslim man said his religion ( human rights ) was being denied to his son as no schools in the Dublin area were of the Muslim type ( most are R.C. and a few protestant ) , so this guy threatened the Irish Govt with the European court in Strasbourg . The fact that ireland is in recession / bailouts ETC meant nothing to this guy who kept insisting that Muslim schools be built . B Obama " I want to get American people back to work " - seen as fair and patriotic G Brown " I want to get British people back to work " - seen as racist Report abuse 8 of 12 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? 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Sign in Your Account Try Prime Basket 0 Wish List * Amazon.co.uk * Warehouse Deals * Subscribe & Save * Amazon Family * Outlet * Amazon Prime * Mobile Apps * Amazon Toolbar * Amazon Local (What are Customer Discussions?) Customer Discussions > politics discussion forum Immigration from eastern Europe See latest post Sort: Oldest first | Newest first Showing 51-75 of 94 posts in this discussion In reply to an earlier post on 20 Nov 2013 16:29:17 GMT easytiger says: True. Suggest you go to thier website and have a look. I'm not here to argue the pros and cons of the EDL with a shinner. Totally pointless. Report abuse 3 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Nov 2013 16:35:34 GMT Last edited by the author on 20 Nov 2013 18:32:22 GMT Spin says: [Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.] [Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Hide post again. (Show all unhelpful posts)] Easy: No thanks. The terms "Defence" and "League" are too reminiscent of Nazi fascism to attract my political attention...=) Report abuse 0 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Nov 2013 11:15:10 GMT easytiger says: So shut tf up then. Report abuse 5 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Nov 2013 15:34:47 GMT Spin says: [Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.] [Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Hide post again. (Show all unhelpful posts)] easy: is that the motto of your "EDL"? You are hardly a good advert for your politics, I must say.. Report abuse 1 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Nov 2013 16:50:42 GMT easytiger says: Dunno what the motto of the EDL is actually. You bring up a subject you know nothing about, refuse to learn anything about, then seem surprised at the obvious retort. Report abuse 3 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Nov 2013 17:03:54 GMT Spin says: easy: Trust me, my dismissal of latent or blatent Nazism is NOT based on an ignorance of the subject. Report abuse 1 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Nov 2013 17:16:57 GMT easytiger says: It certainly is. Tell you what spun, this week it seems you're getting a battering from the prescription drug brigade, gay atheists and canadian transexuals who can't iron, so why come on here spouting about an organisation you admit to knowing nothing about? Report abuse 3 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Nov 2013 17:32:18 GMT Spin says: Easy: Believe what you want. I am sure your political beliefs, which provide you with a certain amount of comfort, will make no difference to the real world...=) Report abuse 1 of 4 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Nov 2013 18:26:39 GMT easytiger says: Which real world? The 'up' one or your upside down theory? Report abuse 2 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Nov 2013 18:31:50 GMT Spin says: Easy: The real world; the one you guys refuse to acknowledge... Report abuse 1 of 4 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Nov 2013 19:04:56 GMT TNF/GOMSY says: Spoon....can it be true....did you write a poem....? Report abuse 1 of 4 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 22 Nov 2013 17:22:52 GMT Spin says: TNF; I'm a poet and I didn't know it. =) Report abuse 0 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Nov 2013 10:09:38 GMT [Deleted by Amazon on 26 Nov 2013 05:55:03 GMT] __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Nov 2013 10:29:57 GMT Dan Fante says: Absolutely spot on. Report abuse 7 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Nov 2013 11:28:58 GMT Gordon Bennett says: Major Doom, What's <>? Did UKey have one between 2007 and 2010? Is there the same legal compulsion upon member states to enforce every bit of the Social Charter as with EU law on the right of people from member countries to live and work where they choose? Ukeyland seems to apply most of the Social Charter...strange behaviour for an <>. <> on the entry of migrants from other EU states. They can only do this to prevent people entering from new member states for a limited period, and the UKey gov has too done this with people from Romania, Albania and Bulgaria. Are you claiming that in 2014 the Germans, Dutch, Swedes and others will continue to block migrants from Romania and other new member states, but UKey will let them in? <>. Will you explain how this claim will show itself in they way people vote? Report abuse 3 of 8 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Nov 2013 11:29:42 GMT Gordon Bennett says: ...stark raving bonkers spot on. Report abuse 2 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Nov 2013 14:22:56 GMT easytiger says: Corporal Doom, Mass immigration was favoured instead of delayed like in the rest of europe the following: The Labour government as a source of new votes(80% of new immigrants vote labour) to 'smash the Right'(thier words) The TUC who saw a chance to increase thier diminishing membership The 'One world' brigade Large corporations who saw a great opportunity to grind down wage rates All done by Tony Blair who so hated the British working class that he decided to import his own. Report abuse 5 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Nov 2013 16:25:03 GMT TNF/GOMSY says: Settle.... Report abuse 0 of 2 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Nov 2013 17:16:04 GMT Gordon Bennett says: ...is that a posh name for the settee...a must have DFS corner unit in cream faux leather and the fury zebra pattern cushions with the extending foot rests...ideal for watching Strictly whilst balancing a KFC family bucket and a 2 litre bottle of Coke on yer belly. Report abuse 2 of 4 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Nov 2013 17:17:49 GMT Gordon Bennett says: Me settle?...Lance Corporal Doom was the lad getting his y-fronts on the wrong way. Report abuse 2 of 4 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 24 Nov 2013 19:17:13 GMT Last edited by the author on 24 Nov 2013 19:31:58 GMT Charlieost says: Good point easytiger and well remembered. We have had a number of incidents in the Republic such as stabbings and drunken car accidents in which Irish people have been injured or killed. It has been obvious from the surnames of the guilty parties that they are of former Soviet Union extraction. They do seem to be takin some time to settle into our cultural ways. We had a bunch from Latvia down at a local caravan park causing chaos this summer. The gards had to be called to turf them out eventually. They were asked to keep the noise down at three in the morning when they were still keeping everyone awake and got really nasty with the old fella (in his eighties) that runs the site. Horrible bunch. Never noticed any trouble from the Roma though. Still, a re-think in order methinks. C PS. I did buy my latest car off a really pleasant Polish fella who gave me fifty euro back for as we call it over here, "luck money". Nice guy, works in a local shop. Very rural area here though. Presume I would run into them more in the cities. Report abuse 2 of 3 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 24 Nov 2013 20:34:29 GMT [Deleted by Amazon on 25 Nov 2013 06:06:07 GMT] __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 24 Nov 2013 20:39:37 GMT Charlieost says: Well thank you Princess. I tell it as I see it. :) Report abuse 3 of 4 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 25 Nov 2013 21:28:27 GMT Anita says: Easytiger - you here? I have a question, if you don't mind. (Completely off topic, but construction/engineering related, so thought I'd ask you) Report abuse Do you think this post adds to the discussion? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 26 Nov 2013 00:38:13 GMT Gordon Bennett says: Are you planning a survival shelter? Report abuse 2 of 3 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No Your reply to cdAuthorNamePlaceholder's post: Insert a product link To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?) ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ You are already tracking this discussion. 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Sign in Your Account Try Prime Basket 0 Wish List * Amazon.co.uk * Warehouse Deals * Subscribe & Save * Amazon Family * Outlet * Amazon Prime * Mobile Apps * Amazon Toolbar * Amazon Local (What are Customer Discussions?) Customer Discussions > politics discussion forum the left and the influx of migrant workers. See latest post Sort: Oldest first | Newest first Showing 51-75 of 102 posts in this discussion In reply to an earlier post on 18 Mar 2012 20:38:08 GMT Mr. M. Bounds says: i dont blame anyone who lives off benefits, if their only option is to take a mundane job that pays minimum wage. there is nothing noble about waking at the crack of dawn, working in excess of 40 hours and to take home a wage that gives you no standard of living Report abuse 3 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 18 Mar 2012 21:10:51 GMT M. Coleman says: + the cost of transport of getting there and back each day , in winter - leaving the house in the dark and getting home when it is dark again , perhaps working outside in the cold rain and snow , and for an abusive boss or line manager as well ,, " Just Sign On , Son " I would say . Report abuse 3 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 18 Mar 2012 21:18:05 GMT Spin says: The problem is not wages. It is a problem of personal fulfillment. Society provides no fulfillment whatsoever to its labour force. It demands payment for education then, upon education, demands one serves burgers to tourists. One must ensure an economy that provides not only cash, but fulfillment to the labour force. Each one of us would work for any wage as long as we were happy in our job and felt as if we were contributing to both our own ambition and loves, and to society. Report abuse 4 of 11 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 18 Mar 2012 21:45:22 GMT Mr. M. Bounds says: three weeks time i will be redundant. i have been in full employment since 1986. i am taking my money and going to south east asia for a few months, because the only alternative is to get on my hands and knees and beg for a job that will pay me about two hundred pounds a week. no thanks Report abuse 4 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 18 Mar 2012 21:48:08 GMT Mr. M. Bounds says: i agree whole heartedly with your post completely. Report abuse 3 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 18 Mar 2012 21:55:07 GMT Spin says: Capitalism requires not you,but your labour. Your contribution to society is of as much relevence to capitalism as a bee is to a hive. Report abuse 3 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2012 15:00:30 GMT doctor_jeep says: Sadly the same goes for socialism - the main difference being the basis on which you are rewarded. Would you rather be paid based on the demand for your labour or on what someone else thinks you need? No economic theory is going to have much interest in that which it cannot model. Report abuse 3 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2012 19:21:09 GMT Spin says: Doctor: That is exactly the pont of communism. Socialism is a weak, inferior and cowardly branch of politics, neither embracing nor refusing capitalism or communism, but balancing precariously on the fence. "When, in the course of development, class distinctions have diappeared,and all production has been concentrated in the hands of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organised power of one class for oppressing another..." ( Marx and Engels,The Communist Manifesto) Report abuse 4 of 10 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 04:46:43 GMT Last edited by the author on 20 Mar 2012 04:49:17 GMT Molly Brown says: Mr Bounds, you should be careful what you say, as regards having "left wing leanings", the Police may have a dossier on you. I am sorry that you are losing your job, hopefully not joining the thousands of Construction Workers who have been unable to regain employment due apparently to this country's Secret Police keeping tags on what you do, say or what you might be thinking? I must admit I missed this story in the mainstream News, and only briefly picked up on it today whilst watching Russia Today on Freeview. "Blacklisted building workers hope for day in court after ruling?" http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012 /mar/03/police-blacklist-link-construction-workers?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487 Daniel Boffey, policy editor guardian.co.uk, Saturday 3 March 2012 21.57 GMT "The police or security services supplied information to a blacklist funded by the country's major construction firms that has kept thousands of people out of work over the past three decades. The Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) has revealed that records that could only have come from the police or MI5 have been discovered in a vast database of files held on 3,200 victims who were deemed leftwing or troublesome. The files were collected by the Consulting Association, a clandestine organisation funded by major names in the construction industry. Its database was seized nearly three years ago, but the extraordinary nature of the information held has only now emerged, following an employment tribunal for one of the victims, Dave Smith, a 46-year-old engineer who had a 36-page file against his name and was victimised repeatedly for highlighting safety hazards on sites, including the presence of asbestos." ===================================================== "The Consulting Association, a shadowy organisation that compiled a list of 'troublemakers' - with the help of the security services - for Britain's biggest building companies was closed four years ago. Only now can its 3,200 victims go to court and hope to win" One of the victims of this secret blacklist, compiled by the (Secret) Police and which stopped this man from gaining employment in the Construction Industry included pages detailing his private activities such as, "We were at an anti-fascist demonstration at the Cenotaph and that somehow finds a way into the file. It is incredible. What has that got to do with my employment record? People were emailing me saying come along Monday and then I would get a phone call on the Sunday saying, 'That job has gone.' It was devastating. It smacks of a sort of police state, almost with the police colluding with the employers to blacklist the trade unionists. Some of the people on that blacklist are just ordinary health and safety reps. You just wonder how far this goes." see full article @ http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/m ar/03/blacklisted-building-workers-court-hopes Apparently this kind of blacklisting has been happening, surprisingly, NOT, since the days of Maggie Thatcher and continued by her poodle, Blair, and only just discovered I gather because of the current investigation into Police corruption via the Leveson Enquiry and other investigations into the media. Report abuse 9 of 10 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 10:53:03 GMT William Podmore says: Excellent post, Molly - thank you for the useful information. Report abuse 6 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 17:28:58 GMT rock n roll animal says: bet i'm on it!! Report abuse 1 of 2 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 18:03:23 GMT Pipkin says: Hi R & R, Me also! Report abuse 1 of 2 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 21:00:28 GMT TomC says: It started well before Thatcher ... http://www.1in12events.co.uk/archive/publ ications/library/spies/spies.htm The Consulting Association is the Economic League continued under another name. Report abuse 3 of 3 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 05:50:57 GMT Last edited by the author on 21 Mar 2012 06:16:46 GMT Molly Brown says: "Economic League (United Kingdom)" From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_League_(UK) "The Economic League was an organisation in the United Kingdom dedicated to opposing what they saw as subversion and action against free enterprise. The organisation was founded in 1919 by a group of industrialists and then MP William Reginald Hall under the name of National Propaganda. Its chief function was to promote the point of view of industrialists and businessmen. Predating McCarthyism, it worked closely with the British Empire Union. John Baker White worked as the league's Assistant Director, and then from 1926 to 1939 as Director.[1] They later worked with MI5 to blacklist workers who they suspected of association with certain left wing groups, ranging from the Communist Party of Great Britain to the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.[citation needed] The League became more visible in the 1980s, as the press investigated its activities, and questions were asked in Parliament in a campaign against the League, led by Maria Fyfe. It was wound up in 1994, with two of its former directors forming the similar organisation CAPRiM shortly afterwards.[2] Another similar organisation was The Consulting Association which was raided by the Office of the Information Commissioner in February 2009." "The league's running cost was funded by contributions from various companies. In the early 1980s numerous companies would check out employees with the League to ensure that employeess were not communist-trained with the intent of disruption." Hi Tom C, I've recently had problems with a trojan on my PC from unknown sites, so didn't go to your link. Did however, look it up on Wiki, and you are totally correct. Why on earth should I believe it was something new. I mean Capitalists maintaining their power, through subversive means. My main concern, and reason for posting the links, was that it was not easy to access, it took me some time to find a mainstream site that had reported on this outrageous and illegal blacklisting of working people because of their political beliefs. Now who is to say what a "troublemaker" is, I have been accused and harassed at work of being just that. What it often means is that you have simply pointed out to your boss that actually what they have instructed you to do, is possibly illegal, infringes your employment rights, or is quite often immoral or dangerous to your or others health, ? It means you are not a "yes man(woman)", but has nothing to do with your ability to do your job or do it very well. You are already using your abilities to make money for the company presumably, in some way. In many cases where I have drawn certain points out to a manager, it was in the best interests of the company, but perhaps not in the best interests of that particular manager? I have never been sacked for doing this, infact quite the reverse, the person involved in a dispute of some of the above has subsequently "been moved on", conincidentally soon after the problem arising, and the company stood by me and was grateful for making them aware of a problem, you know, "whistleblowing". Companies need to trust their workers more, encourage "whistleblowing" as sometimes in is in their economic benefit, to actually know what is happening in their companies, when corrupt, or potentially unsafe practices are carried out. Many Companies employ "troubleshooters", or any other term of undercover employees to find these problems before they come back to bite them on the @rse, causing perhaps fatal injury. Just look at News International? Report abuse 4 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 22 Mar 2012 08:25:29 GMT easytiger says: The blacklist in the construction industry is not exclusively for the left, it includes people on the right who actively opposed the import of cheap labour to bolster the profits of multi-nationals and subject the indigenous workers to unemployment which the government pays for not them. I know; I'm on it. That's one of the reasons I don't work in UK anymore. I was lucky, having the quals and experience to do this-millions haven't. Mornin' Molly. Report abuse 6 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2012 11:33:36 GMT Dan & Tues says: "when opposing this global social engineering" In what sense is closing borders and dividing people along ethnic lines not also "social engineering"? Report abuse 5 of 8 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Mar 2012 05:31:46 GMT Molly Brown says: Morning easytiger, so you went out into the world and got your own back then. I wouldn't say the imported cheap labour question is necessarily a right wing thing. It's just that the left think it is politically incorrect to question foreign labour undercutting the labour market here. I think the right and left and middle (perhaps), would like a decent living wage for all people in the country. Report abuse 4 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 07:30:35 GMT easytiger says: What galls me about the left is that they're usually well educated, middle-class civil servants in what used to be jobs for life. Try walking out the site gate with your cards on a friday and then watch cheap labour march in on a monday. This one world-no borders thing plays right into the multi-nationals' hands-the ability to shift blocks of cheap labour round the world without giving a fig about the living standards of the indigenous population. It's not just on the shop floor either. I did three different contracts on the Olympic Park and by the time I was on the final one in 2010 I was the only englishman on the job and that included engineers and managers.It's all done now, no way back, but from 2003 onwards you can bet your bottom dollar that if half the presenters and reporters on the BBC had turned into eastern europeans overnight a totally different attitude would have have prevailed. Report abuse 8 of 8 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 07:36:29 GMT easytiger says: That old quip 'TB didn't like the British working class so he imported his own' rings so true. If the likes of Thatcher had done this it would have been classed as a savage attack on the working class and there would have been mass demonstrations in the streets! I just don't get the left in UK at all. Report abuse 7 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Mar 2012 07:38:19 GMT Last edited by the author on 23 Mar 2012 07:39:14 GMT Molly Brown says: Then ofcourse there is the old vs the young, (that's how I was undercut with redundancy). Makes sense to get rid of someone that has worked their way up to a decent wage, then suddenly, you're gone and some 21 year old whizz kid who'll work for peanuts because they don't have a mortgage, or there parents are rich, takes your re-titled job. This is going on now with internships. I am certainly not middle class, and had to fend for myself from aged 16. It's not just imported labour now that's undercutting jobs. Report abuse 3 of 3 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 12:59:50 GMT Mrs. A. Pinteaux says: Many people seem to mix migrants, immigrants and asylum seekers and blame them for what is Globalised Capitalism. And what does this issue have to do with religion??? Are you worried about your work being stolen by immigrants or you are afraid your culture, whatever it is, being diluted by those bloody people who are so different? It is Globalised Capitalism that requires the movement of workers. The sooner you give up the little island mentality the sooner you can face the reality of the capitalism we all benefit from, i.e cheap food and cheap clothing. You cannot focus on the symptom without being able to understand the cause. You can blame your average Eastern European worker for this all you like, if that makes you feel better, but what will this change? Conversely all people who berate migrant workers are abjectly silent on the Brits who move abroad and use the local health service etc., are you all who complain about Eastern Europeans happy for Brits to be able to move to France, Spain, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary etc. and use the benefit system there, expect the same treatment as here and drive up local property prices so local kids cannot get work or buy their first homes? If you close the borders and quit the EU you will pay a very high price: you will loose trade, all your citizens who are expats will loose their benefits as all the agreements to match standards will be annulled, and pay higher export price, is that what you really want? 70% of UK trade for the moment is coming from the EU if I remember well the figures. Be careful what you wish for! Report abuse 3 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 13:18:44 GMT Last edited by the author on 23 Mar 2012 13:19:16 GMT easytiger says: Quite frankly most of the Brits I know who haved moved abroad are solvent and can take care of themselves. Most of them say they left Britain not because of migrant workers but because their cities had become full of immigrant layabouts demanding that the culture they supposedly fled be imposed on their new homelands. You don't have million Brits in catholic Madrid shouting for protestant schools do you? Quite frankly I couldn't give a monkey's what expat Brits get up to (by the way I work abroad but retain residence in UK by paying UK tax and NI-costs me a lot of money to be a smug B), it's an irrelevant arguing point. Quite frankly if you still believe all that propaganda that the EU and the BBC churn out I should try reading some other literature if I were you. Very soon there will be limited access to the internet because of the impending (I kid you not) powercuts caused by this completely non-sensical renewable energy policy dictated to us by EU. Report abuse 5 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Mar 2012 14:14:31 GMT [Deleted by the author on 29 Mar 2012 09:46:20 BDT] __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 14:19:11 GMT M. Coleman says: Mrs A , what rubbish - for a start - global capitalism nearly brought the whole house down lately , with the EU resorting to build " Firewalls " around 1 small country - Greece , global capitalism being reversed as fast as possible here , even the USA and China were feeling the heat . perhaps more firewalls are required around other countries , some bigger than Greece . Imagine the havoc if France or Spain were to take the place of Greece , more firewalls needed now , and higher walls than what has already been done . De globalisation is now needed asap to save the globe from any 1 country whose clap-trap finances hit the fan in the near future . As for immigration , the joke is now over , local unemployment is rising all round the UK and local people can not find any meaningfull jobs now , perhaps we should tell the EU to get stuffed , we're leaving ( ireland really should asap ) , don't worry about trade , they do not want to lose our buying power . We will still buy Mercs , BMW's , Audis , Renualts and Citroens from them , they will not want to harm that . OK , so MRS Ashton loses her cushy well paid number , but time to give the EU back it's citizens and endless red-tape . Report abuse 5 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Mar 2012 14:21:07 GMT rock n roll animal says: WHOOP!!!! WHOOP!!!!!! i concur 100% Report abuse 2 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No Your reply to cdAuthorNamePlaceholder's post: Insert a product link To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?) ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ You are already tracking this discussion. 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Sign in Your Account Try Prime Basket 0 Wish List * Amazon.co.uk * Warehouse Deals * Subscribe & Save * Amazon Family * Outlet * Amazon Prime * Mobile Apps * Amazon Toolbar * Amazon Local (What are Customer Discussions?) Customer Discussions > politics discussion forum the left and the influx of migrant workers. See latest post Sort: Oldest first | Newest first Showing 51-75 of 102 posts in this discussion In reply to an earlier post on 18 Mar 2012 20:38:08 GMT Mr. M. Bounds says: i dont blame anyone who lives off benefits, if their only option is to take a mundane job that pays minimum wage. there is nothing noble about waking at the crack of dawn, working in excess of 40 hours and to take home a wage that gives you no standard of living Report abuse 3 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 18 Mar 2012 21:10:51 GMT M. Coleman says: + the cost of transport of getting there and back each day , in winter - leaving the house in the dark and getting home when it is dark again , perhaps working outside in the cold rain and snow , and for an abusive boss or line manager as well ,, " Just Sign On , Son " I would say . Report abuse 3 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 18 Mar 2012 21:18:05 GMT Spin says: The problem is not wages. It is a problem of personal fulfillment. Society provides no fulfillment whatsoever to its labour force. It demands payment for education then, upon education, demands one serves burgers to tourists. One must ensure an economy that provides not only cash, but fulfillment to the labour force. Each one of us would work for any wage as long as we were happy in our job and felt as if we were contributing to both our own ambition and loves, and to society. Report abuse 4 of 11 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 18 Mar 2012 21:45:22 GMT Mr. M. Bounds says: three weeks time i will be redundant. i have been in full employment since 1986. i am taking my money and going to south east asia for a few months, because the only alternative is to get on my hands and knees and beg for a job that will pay me about two hundred pounds a week. no thanks Report abuse 4 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 18 Mar 2012 21:48:08 GMT Mr. M. Bounds says: i agree whole heartedly with your post completely. Report abuse 3 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 18 Mar 2012 21:55:07 GMT Spin says: Capitalism requires not you,but your labour. Your contribution to society is of as much relevence to capitalism as a bee is to a hive. Report abuse 3 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2012 15:00:30 GMT doctor_jeep says: Sadly the same goes for socialism - the main difference being the basis on which you are rewarded. Would you rather be paid based on the demand for your labour or on what someone else thinks you need? No economic theory is going to have much interest in that which it cannot model. Report abuse 3 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 19 Mar 2012 19:21:09 GMT Spin says: Doctor: That is exactly the pont of communism. Socialism is a weak, inferior and cowardly branch of politics, neither embracing nor refusing capitalism or communism, but balancing precariously on the fence. "When, in the course of development, class distinctions have diappeared,and all production has been concentrated in the hands of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organised power of one class for oppressing another..." ( Marx and Engels,The Communist Manifesto) Report abuse 4 of 10 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 04:46:43 GMT Last edited by the author on 20 Mar 2012 04:49:17 GMT Molly Brown says: Mr Bounds, you should be careful what you say, as regards having "left wing leanings", the Police may have a dossier on you. I am sorry that you are losing your job, hopefully not joining the thousands of Construction Workers who have been unable to regain employment due apparently to this country's Secret Police keeping tags on what you do, say or what you might be thinking? I must admit I missed this story in the mainstream News, and only briefly picked up on it today whilst watching Russia Today on Freeview. "Blacklisted building workers hope for day in court after ruling?" http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012 /mar/03/police-blacklist-link-construction-workers?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487 Daniel Boffey, policy editor guardian.co.uk, Saturday 3 March 2012 21.57 GMT "The police or security services supplied information to a blacklist funded by the country's major construction firms that has kept thousands of people out of work over the past three decades. The Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) has revealed that records that could only have come from the police or MI5 have been discovered in a vast database of files held on 3,200 victims who were deemed leftwing or troublesome. The files were collected by the Consulting Association, a clandestine organisation funded by major names in the construction industry. Its database was seized nearly three years ago, but the extraordinary nature of the information held has only now emerged, following an employment tribunal for one of the victims, Dave Smith, a 46-year-old engineer who had a 36-page file against his name and was victimised repeatedly for highlighting safety hazards on sites, including the presence of asbestos." ===================================================== "The Consulting Association, a shadowy organisation that compiled a list of 'troublemakers' - with the help of the security services - for Britain's biggest building companies was closed four years ago. Only now can its 3,200 victims go to court and hope to win" One of the victims of this secret blacklist, compiled by the (Secret) Police and which stopped this man from gaining employment in the Construction Industry included pages detailing his private activities such as, "We were at an anti-fascist demonstration at the Cenotaph and that somehow finds a way into the file. It is incredible. What has that got to do with my employment record? People were emailing me saying come along Monday and then I would get a phone call on the Sunday saying, 'That job has gone.' It was devastating. It smacks of a sort of police state, almost with the police colluding with the employers to blacklist the trade unionists. Some of the people on that blacklist are just ordinary health and safety reps. You just wonder how far this goes." see full article @ http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/m ar/03/blacklisted-building-workers-court-hopes Apparently this kind of blacklisting has been happening, surprisingly, NOT, since the days of Maggie Thatcher and continued by her poodle, Blair, and only just discovered I gather because of the current investigation into Police corruption via the Leveson Enquiry and other investigations into the media. Report abuse 9 of 10 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 10:53:03 GMT William Podmore says: Excellent post, Molly - thank you for the useful information. Report abuse 6 of 9 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 17:28:58 GMT rock n roll animal says: bet i'm on it!! Report abuse 1 of 2 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 18:03:23 GMT Pipkin says: Hi R & R, Me also! Report abuse 1 of 2 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 20 Mar 2012 21:00:28 GMT TomC says: It started well before Thatcher ... http://www.1in12events.co.uk/archive/publ ications/library/spies/spies.htm The Consulting Association is the Economic League continued under another name. Report abuse 3 of 3 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 21 Mar 2012 05:50:57 GMT Last edited by the author on 21 Mar 2012 06:16:46 GMT Molly Brown says: "Economic League (United Kingdom)" From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_League_(UK) "The Economic League was an organisation in the United Kingdom dedicated to opposing what they saw as subversion and action against free enterprise. The organisation was founded in 1919 by a group of industrialists and then MP William Reginald Hall under the name of National Propaganda. Its chief function was to promote the point of view of industrialists and businessmen. Predating McCarthyism, it worked closely with the British Empire Union. John Baker White worked as the league's Assistant Director, and then from 1926 to 1939 as Director.[1] They later worked with MI5 to blacklist workers who they suspected of association with certain left wing groups, ranging from the Communist Party of Great Britain to the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.[citation needed] The League became more visible in the 1980s, as the press investigated its activities, and questions were asked in Parliament in a campaign against the League, led by Maria Fyfe. It was wound up in 1994, with two of its former directors forming the similar organisation CAPRiM shortly afterwards.[2] Another similar organisation was The Consulting Association which was raided by the Office of the Information Commissioner in February 2009." "The league's running cost was funded by contributions from various companies. In the early 1980s numerous companies would check out employees with the League to ensure that employeess were not communist-trained with the intent of disruption." Hi Tom C, I've recently had problems with a trojan on my PC from unknown sites, so didn't go to your link. Did however, look it up on Wiki, and you are totally correct. Why on earth should I believe it was something new. I mean Capitalists maintaining their power, through subversive means. My main concern, and reason for posting the links, was that it was not easy to access, it took me some time to find a mainstream site that had reported on this outrageous and illegal blacklisting of working people because of their political beliefs. Now who is to say what a "troublemaker" is, I have been accused and harassed at work of being just that. What it often means is that you have simply pointed out to your boss that actually what they have instructed you to do, is possibly illegal, infringes your employment rights, or is quite often immoral or dangerous to your or others health, ? It means you are not a "yes man(woman)", but has nothing to do with your ability to do your job or do it very well. You are already using your abilities to make money for the company presumably, in some way. In many cases where I have drawn certain points out to a manager, it was in the best interests of the company, but perhaps not in the best interests of that particular manager? I have never been sacked for doing this, infact quite the reverse, the person involved in a dispute of some of the above has subsequently "been moved on", conincidentally soon after the problem arising, and the company stood by me and was grateful for making them aware of a problem, you know, "whistleblowing". Companies need to trust their workers more, encourage "whistleblowing" as sometimes in is in their economic benefit, to actually know what is happening in their companies, when corrupt, or potentially unsafe practices are carried out. Many Companies employ "troubleshooters", or any other term of undercover employees to find these problems before they come back to bite them on the @rse, causing perhaps fatal injury. Just look at News International? Report abuse 4 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 22 Mar 2012 08:25:29 GMT easytiger says: The blacklist in the construction industry is not exclusively for the left, it includes people on the right who actively opposed the import of cheap labour to bolster the profits of multi-nationals and subject the indigenous workers to unemployment which the government pays for not them. I know; I'm on it. That's one of the reasons I don't work in UK anymore. I was lucky, having the quals and experience to do this-millions haven't. Mornin' Molly. Report abuse 6 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 22 Mar 2012 11:33:36 GMT Dan & Tues says: "when opposing this global social engineering" In what sense is closing borders and dividing people along ethnic lines not also "social engineering"? Report abuse 5 of 8 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Mar 2012 05:31:46 GMT Molly Brown says: Morning easytiger, so you went out into the world and got your own back then. I wouldn't say the imported cheap labour question is necessarily a right wing thing. It's just that the left think it is politically incorrect to question foreign labour undercutting the labour market here. I think the right and left and middle (perhaps), would like a decent living wage for all people in the country. Report abuse 4 of 5 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 07:30:35 GMT easytiger says: What galls me about the left is that they're usually well educated, middle-class civil servants in what used to be jobs for life. Try walking out the site gate with your cards on a friday and then watch cheap labour march in on a monday. This one world-no borders thing plays right into the multi-nationals' hands-the ability to shift blocks of cheap labour round the world without giving a fig about the living standards of the indigenous population. It's not just on the shop floor either. I did three different contracts on the Olympic Park and by the time I was on the final one in 2010 I was the only englishman on the job and that included engineers and managers.It's all done now, no way back, but from 2003 onwards you can bet your bottom dollar that if half the presenters and reporters on the BBC had turned into eastern europeans overnight a totally different attitude would have have prevailed. Report abuse 8 of 8 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 07:36:29 GMT easytiger says: That old quip 'TB didn't like the British working class so he imported his own' rings so true. If the likes of Thatcher had done this it would have been classed as a savage attack on the working class and there would have been mass demonstrations in the streets! I just don't get the left in UK at all. Report abuse 7 of 7 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Mar 2012 07:38:19 GMT Last edited by the author on 23 Mar 2012 07:39:14 GMT Molly Brown says: Then ofcourse there is the old vs the young, (that's how I was undercut with redundancy). Makes sense to get rid of someone that has worked their way up to a decent wage, then suddenly, you're gone and some 21 year old whizz kid who'll work for peanuts because they don't have a mortgage, or there parents are rich, takes your re-titled job. This is going on now with internships. I am certainly not middle class, and had to fend for myself from aged 16. It's not just imported labour now that's undercutting jobs. Report abuse 3 of 3 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 12:59:50 GMT Mrs. A. Pinteaux says: Many people seem to mix migrants, immigrants and asylum seekers and blame them for what is Globalised Capitalism. And what does this issue have to do with religion??? Are you worried about your work being stolen by immigrants or you are afraid your culture, whatever it is, being diluted by those bloody people who are so different? It is Globalised Capitalism that requires the movement of workers. The sooner you give up the little island mentality the sooner you can face the reality of the capitalism we all benefit from, i.e cheap food and cheap clothing. You cannot focus on the symptom without being able to understand the cause. You can blame your average Eastern European worker for this all you like, if that makes you feel better, but what will this change? Conversely all people who berate migrant workers are abjectly silent on the Brits who move abroad and use the local health service etc., are you all who complain about Eastern Europeans happy for Brits to be able to move to France, Spain, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary etc. and use the benefit system there, expect the same treatment as here and drive up local property prices so local kids cannot get work or buy their first homes? If you close the borders and quit the EU you will pay a very high price: you will loose trade, all your citizens who are expats will loose their benefits as all the agreements to match standards will be annulled, and pay higher export price, is that what you really want? 70% of UK trade for the moment is coming from the EU if I remember well the figures. Be careful what you wish for! Report abuse 3 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 13:18:44 GMT Last edited by the author on 23 Mar 2012 13:19:16 GMT easytiger says: Quite frankly most of the Brits I know who haved moved abroad are solvent and can take care of themselves. Most of them say they left Britain not because of migrant workers but because their cities had become full of immigrant layabouts demanding that the culture they supposedly fled be imposed on their new homelands. You don't have million Brits in catholic Madrid shouting for protestant schools do you? Quite frankly I couldn't give a monkey's what expat Brits get up to (by the way I work abroad but retain residence in UK by paying UK tax and NI-costs me a lot of money to be a smug B), it's an irrelevant arguing point. Quite frankly if you still believe all that propaganda that the EU and the BBC churn out I should try reading some other literature if I were you. Very soon there will be limited access to the internet because of the impending (I kid you not) powercuts caused by this completely non-sensical renewable energy policy dictated to us by EU. Report abuse 5 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No __________________________________________________________________ In reply to an earlier post on 23 Mar 2012 14:14:31 GMT [Deleted by the author on 29 Mar 2012 09:46:20 BDT] __________________________________________________________________ Posted on 23 Mar 2012 14:19:11 GMT M. Coleman says: Mrs A , what rubbish - for a start - global capitalism nearly brought the whole house down lately , with the EU resorting to build " Firewalls " around 1 small country - Greece , global capitalism being reversed as fast as possible here , even the USA and China were feeling the heat . perhaps more firewalls are required around other countries , some bigger than Greece . Imagine the havoc if France or Spain were to take the place of Greece , more firewalls needed now , and higher walls than what has already been done . De globalisation is now needed asap to save the globe from any 1 country whose clap-trap finances hit the fan in the near future . As for immigration , the joke is now over , local unemployment is rising all round the UK and local people can not find any meaningfull jobs now , perhaps we should tell the EU to get stuffed , we're leaving ( ireland really should asap ) , don't worry about trade , they do not want to lose our buying power . We will still buy Mercs , BMW's , Audis , Renualts and Citroens from them , they will not want to harm that . OK , so MRS Ashton loses her cushy well paid number , but time to give the EU back it's citizens and endless red-tape . Report abuse 5 of 6 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? 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(Login — Register) __________________________________________________________________ UK Column Discussion / Politics / UK Political Parties v 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next » / What's the truth about immigration? Pages (2): 1 2 Next » Thread Rating: * 0 Votes - 0 Average * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 Threaded Mode | Linear Mode What's the truth about immigration? 01-05-2010, 04:03 PM Post: #1 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 What's the truth about immigration? If my ears and eyes serve me right it is the Poles who are being targeted as the main source of immigration into Britain. We know that Polish are hard working people so they would naturally show a high profile in the jobs market. However if you go to the link below then to page 6 of the World Bank migration and development report you will find a graph made up of data provided by the UK Office of National Statistics. The Polish are just one part of the A8 migrants shown in the graph and even though their influx was exponential It is clear to see that other groups of migrants were well established by 2002 especially those from the African Continent. Of course the graph only refers to those in work but can still give an indication of ratios. It would be interesting to know the true influx of immigration especially because Britain’s benefit system makes us the destination of choice especially for economic migrants . The next question is why is the rate of immigration from Africa concealed? It is very important to know especially if an amnesty is offered by Clegg to illegal immigrants because this would provide a legitimate route for their families to follow. If Turkey joins the EU then this will also be another source over which we will have no control. There is also information of how other countries are or plan to deal with immigration and America which is about 39 times larger than our little island. Takealook. http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTPR...rief11.pdf In the Mail today. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...wrong.html And http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election...oblem.html _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user 01-05-2010, 05:28 PM Post: #2 Bluthund Offline Senior Member * * * * Posts: 723 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 1 RE: What's the truth about immigration? Oh, we are well in the Destabilisation phase of DDCN Doctrine: http://www.philipbrennan.net/essays/how-...-a-nation/ Bluthund. _________________ There is no Left or Right - there is only Freedom or Tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you. Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user 03-05-2010, 10:56 PM Post: #3 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? From the Mail Online today http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election...chdog.html _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user 11-05-2010, 07:57 AM Post: #4 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? . http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTPR...velopmentB The link below works http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTPR...rief11.pdf _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user 11-05-2010, 09:39 AM Post: #5 Bluthund Offline Senior Member * * * * Posts: 723 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 1 RE: What's the truth about immigration? Takealook - email me at pbrennan42ATgmailDOTcom and I will host the PDF. Bluthund. _________________ There is no Left or Right - there is only Freedom or Tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you. Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user 05-07-2010, 11:32 PM Post: #6 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? At last here is the relevent pdf Page 6 for Migrant employment into the UK by country of birth [attachment=87] or http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTPR...rief11.pdf _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user 17-07-2010, 04:29 AM Post: #7 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? Just before closing down to go to bed I stumbled across this link. http://www.eutimes.net/2010/07/europe-be...migration/ It ties in very nicely with something I have been thinking about for two or three weeks and links in with the previous posts here especially because the rate of immigration from Africa had been concealed by labour but as it is known they have had an agenda to alter our way of life through uncontrolled immigration. I suspect that they plan to further this agenda with the compressed coil spring of this concealed population and of course it will all take place under the new coalition government. 1).Things had been a little quiet on the Labour front and I couldn't help wondering what mischief they have been up to as old habits no doubt persist. It came to mind that many of the seats they won were in high immigration areas and as the Daily Mail reported they were actively caught committing election fraud Which nobody else seemed to question afterwards. 2). It is only recently that I have noticed African families have begun to appear in my location springing up like mushrooms do in the early morning. 3). Also it had been announced that anybody willing to relocate to other areas of the country will be given priority for council housing. 4).Only yesterday (2 days ago now) the radio channels were full of the story that between now and 2051 the population will grow from 59 million to 78 million and that it will be achieved by the 16 ethnic minorities who will swell from the present 8% of the population to 20%. This being because they are of predominantly child bearing age. The rate of increase in the indigenous population will shrink. How do they know this so far ahead? 5).Don't forget that Clegg wanted to offer an amnesty for illegals who would then be able to bring their relatives legally into the country. Does this and turning a blind eye to Labour's election fraud of registering none existent voters point to an ongoing agenda no matter who is in power. I would like to point out that in the early 70s I had Jamaican associates and from time to time attended their Reggae parties and when I moved to London had Nigerian and Jamaican friends often sharing weekends with their families. It is the hidden agenda I object to. Perhaps we are all being set up for the fall. You will notice when you read the article that The Africans whom the Uks own statistics show are the greatest infux have again not been mentioned. Takealook _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user 17-07-2010, 08:16 AM Post: #8 Martin Edwards Offline Site Admin * * * * * * Posts: 541 Joined: Jul 2009 Reputation: 1 RE: What's the truth about immigration? Guys, It might be worth your while looking to see how Migration fits in with the United Nations and Agenda 21. For example, see UNESCO and the International Migration Convention. More info from this search Find all posts by this user 17-07-2010, 12:49 PM Post: #9 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? (17-07-2010 08:16 AM)Martin Edwards Wrote: Guys, It might be worth your while looking to see how Migration fits in with the United Nations and Agenda 21. For example, see UNESCO and the International Migration Convention. More info from this search Thanks for that link Martin. It sheds further light on what is taking place and of course it is a program for all EU countries (Member States as they now like to call us) So they can all look forward to the same. Of course all people are entitled to be treated properly just as we would expect for ourselves but it can things can also be manipulated to the detriment of each country if they please. What I found interesting is that all bases are covered and enshrined by law. This means that they can play it which ever way they choose and we are powerless do anything about it. For instance Article 22-1 states that ''Migrant workers and their families shall not be subject to measures of collective expulsion. Each case of expulsion shall be examined and decided individually.'' That is fair enough but then the next article says 22- 2''Migrant workers and members of their families may be expelled from the territory of a State Party only in pursuance of a decision taken by the competent authority in accordance with law' One thing that I liked which hopefully will continue apply to us as well is this in Article 18-2. Migrant workers and members of their families who are charged with a criminal offence shall have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law. The articles 8-35 referred at the end of your link are to be found here. http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/45/a45r158.htm International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families quote. Article 35 Nothing in the present part of the Convention shall be interpreted as implying the regularization of the situation of migrant workers or members of their families who are non-documented or in an irregular situation or any right to such regularization of their situation, nor shall it prejudice the measures intended to ensure sound and equitable conditions for international migration as provided in part VI of the present Convention. quote Can anyone interpret the meaning of the sentence above. I would guess that it means that the preceding Articles apply only to legal immigrants but not illegals. Any way what are £500 an hour lawyers for if not to make statements like this mean whatever they want. However if it does mean that then it provides grist for the mill for lawyers to fight over on behalf of the illegals because human rights as they are written should apply to all. Shouldn't they?? Takealook This was planned to be included in the reply. It is the last paragraph on Martin's link but I overlooked it so I will tag it on the end here instead. * Rights of undocumented ('illegal') workers The Convention recognizes that "the human problems involved in migration are even more serious in the case of irregular migration" and the need to encourage appropriate action "to prevent and eliminate clandestine movements and trafficking in migrant workers, while at the same time assuring the protection of their fundamental rights" (Preamble). As measures for preventing and eliminating illegal labour migration, the Convention proposes that the States concerned should collaborate in taking appropriate actions against the dissemination of misleading information relating to emigration and immigration, to detect and eradicate illegal or clandestine movements of migrant workers and impose sanctions on those who are responsible for organising and operating such movements as well as employers of illegal migrant workers (Art. 68). However, the fundamental rights of undocumented migrant workers are protected by the Convention (Art. 8 - 35). Does this answer my question about Article 35 or not? _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user 19-07-2010, 11:58 AM Post: #10 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? Yesterday I heard on the news that there will be a cap on skilled workers but not on unskilled or illegal immigrants. How can this make sense? Are we witnessing the reversal of roles between Labour and Conservative. Is it an indication that agenda is marching on. (Labour are now beginning to spout all the things that they should have said while in office but didn't). Surely limiting the flow of talented people while encouraging other categories is doubly damaging for the country. There have always been natural migration through out history and and countries have benefited. Isambard Kingdom Brunel came from a family of French Immigrants and even his sister was well capable of competing on the same level as an engineer but ladies weren’t allowed to be seen doing that sort of thing in those days. The Polish who always seem to willing, happy. capable and bright always seem to be singled out for media attention. It so happens that children in Poland do not start school until 7 years of age and by the time they leave for secondary School or whatever the equivalent is they are two years ahead of their British counterparts. This pattern I have been told continues right through to the end of University. This is why the International Baccalaureate is so valuable. What Is objectionable is how immigration is being used as a weapon to eventually destabilise Nations and destroy their identity. It was the concealment (as pointed out at the head of this thread) of otherwise published statistics by mainstream media that drew my attention and interest in this subject matter. Takealook http://www.eutimes.net/2010/07/more-immi...-brussels/ More Immigration for Europe Says Brussels Posted by EU Times on Jul 15th, 2010 // 7 Comments BRUSSELS: EU home affairs commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom is to alter the rules for migrants BUREAUCRATS are planning to encourage more new migrants to come to the EU despite rising levels of unemployment, it emerged last night. Brussels officials are to simplify entry rules for workers heading to Europe to take up temporary seasonal jobs in farming, tourism and other industries. EU home affairs commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom said: “We need immigrant workers in order to secure our economic survival.” She claimed more were needed to fill “labour shortages”. But her remarks are bound to provoke new concerns that Eurocrats are determined to press for ever higher levels of immigration. Last night, Home Office insiders insisted Britain would refuse to sign up to the latest overhaul of EU border controls. Mrs Malmstrom said: “We know unemployment rates are still very high in Europe. Paradoxically, at the same time there are labour shortages.” She plans to speed up procedures for hiring managers, specialists and seasonal workers from outside the 27 EU member states. The EU lacks workers in certain sectors even though average unemployment is at 10 per cent, up from seven per cent before the crisis, commission officials said. Mrs Malmstrom – responsible for migration policies – has said the EU will continue to need extra workers in the next few years even though slower economic growth is putting pressure on some EU governments to curb the number of immigrants. An ageing population and low birth rates mean that migrant labour will be necessary to help EU growth in the long term. Mrs Malmstrom said: “In light of the demographic challenge the EU is facing, where our active population is forecasted to start falling already in 2013, we need immigrant workers in order to secure our economic survival. “I will continue to take more steps towards a more inclusive labour migration policy for the EU in the coming years.” Under the proposals, which have to be approved by EU governments and the European Parliament, companies will be able to bring seasonal workers into the EU more quickly to address changing needs. Officials insist the measures are aimed at tackling the growing problem of illegal migrants working in a black economy. Thousands, many from Africa, are hired each year to do jobs such as harvesting tomatoes in Italy. But critics of mass immigration insist that unemployed native workers should be encouraged – or forced through benefit cuts – to take up the work. The new rules would force employers to prove they provide accommodation and set up a complaints mechanism. And companies would benefit from simplified application procedures when bringing managers and specialists into EU branches of international corporations. A spokesman for Mrs Malmstrom said last night: “It is up to each member state to decide whether they need more seasonal workers and how many they should take. If they don’t need more seasonal workers, of course that is their choice.” Source VN:F [1.9.3_1094] _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user Enter Keywords___________ Search Thread « Next Oldest | Next Newest » Pages (2): 1 2 Next » Possibly Related Threads... Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post UAF v BNP & EDL. Mass Immigration: A Frankfurt School Technique Takealook 13 3,245 17-12-2010 03:29 AM Last Post: Takealook Anyone want to discuss Eastern European immigration into the UK and Ireland? dekarnys 9 2,249 05-07-2010 11:44 PM Last Post: Takealook European immigration is an Issue! dekarnys 0 514 19-05-2010 09:59 PM Last Post: dekarnys * View a Printable Version * Send this Thread to a Friend * Subscribe to this thread __________________________________________________________________ UK Column, The Annex, Scott Lodge, Scott Road, Plymouth PL2 3DU - 01752 478050 - editor@ukcolumn.org The UK Column is not affiliated with any political party. UK Column | Return to Top | Return to Content | Lite (Archive) Mode | RSS Syndication Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2014 MyBB Group. #Latest Threads (RSS 2.0) Latest Threads (Atom 1.0) * Our other sites: * UK Column website * British Constitution Group * Lawful Rebellion * Common Purpose Exposed * Get the newspaper Search ...________________ Go __________________________________________________________________ Current time: 06-01-2014, 08:58 PM Hi there, Guest! (Login — Register) __________________________________________________________________ UK Column Discussion / Politics / UK Political Parties v 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next » / What's the truth about immigration? Pages (2): « Previous 1 2 Thread Rating: * 0 Votes - 0 Average * 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 Threaded Mode | Linear Mode What's the truth about immigration? 25-07-2010, 08:20 AM Post: #11 major hitch Offline Senior Member * * * * Posts: 445 Joined: Jun 2009 Reputation: 0 RE: What's the truth about immigration? Whether the size of the population, or the composition of the population, of any country should change by way of immigration is a question sole'ly for the citizens of that country to decide by referendum. It is too important to be left to mere politicians - because everybody is smarter than anybody; all of us are smarter than any few of us. Find all posts by this user 25-07-2010, 03:35 PM Post: #12 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? This reply by Sean answers the question What is The Truth About Immigration very succinctly. Sean says: 24/07/2010 at 7:20 pm People who have expended the great moral and intellectual effort needed to understand the true nature of the world in which we live know that the Conspiratorial View of History is correct. That nothing on this good Earth happens by accident, especially in politics and high finance. Moreover, who understand that Hidden Hands are guiding mankind rapidly towards an apocalyptic time that is verily the Climax of the historical process as we know it. Furthermore, these Proper Students of History know that sinister hands are guiding the Ancient Evil Conspiracy for World Government, which is unfolding rapidly in the Arena of History, and which is easily observed by those with eyes to see … In this connection — and against the wishes of the vast majority of Westerners — a secret, high level policy of mass immigration of non-whites, adoption of foreign, non-white children, and increased miscegenation aimed at radically transforming the West has been pursued, and whose outrages and iniquities have been vigorously defended by professional “Race Relations” experts and “Race Industry” organizations whose disproportionate “power” within contemporary Western culture is not their own. The Shadow Government allows this “power,” for these vociferous advocates and defenders of Multiculturalism (as well as its ideological bodyguard, the Thought Tyranny called Political Correctness) comprise the legion of useful fools, infesting all fields of human endeavour, who are used by the Secret Rulers of this Earth on the long-travelled road towards global tyranny. The Multicultural scam becomes clearly visible to those with eyes to see when one ponders the injustice and absurdities inherent in official policy, especially that policy hidden from the purview of the masses, which not only encourages massive illegal immigration but also lavishly rewards those who break national laws and come to the West illegally. This overrunning of the West by NON-WHITE, non-Christian peoples, is primarily designed to create massive social tensions, using the old “divide and rule” principle, which will allow the Secret Masters of the Evil Agenda to bring about the final destruction of Western Christian Civilization and the enslavement of its indigenous peoples. Also permit me to state that it is only with intuitive insight that one can penetrate beyond the external form or substance of things, to reach their internal substance or reality. It is only with the inner light of the discerning heart that one can achieve confirmation that we now live in an Age of Extreme Evil which will culminate in the end of the historical process as we know it. Empirical and discursive knowledge and thought can only suggest, but cannot directly perceive, and hence penetrate, the true nature of the Age in which we now live. And one of the telltale signs of this Age of Evil is RACIAL AND ETHNIC ADULTERATION ON A MASSIVE SCALE, a pernicious plot especially directed at the indigenous Caucasian, and particularly “Nordid”, populations of the Western World. Why is Western Civilization the main, main target? For the reason that not only is it the cradle of the ancient Sinister Plot to Transform the World, but it is also its greatest impediment, or, more specifically, the spirituality that underpins Western Civilization, which is the Christ Impulse released from the Cross at Calvary commonly called Christianity. That is why the Secret Masters of the New Age One World Agenda – the Lords of Power – have worked tirelessly for centuries to subvert Christendom, and are now also working tirelessly to undermine the racial integrity of the Western Caucasian populations — whether the citizens have the clarity of vision to see it, or not. It is a reply submitted to this link. http://www.eutimes.net/2010/07/europe-be...migration/ _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user 30-07-2010, 08:09 PM Post: #13 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? The question What is the truth about immigration is answered here in an article by Steve Doughty, Social Affairs Correspondent for the Daily Mail. I have reintroduced a few minor details (but perhaps important) that were printed in Wednesdays paper but missing in the online version. Takealook Immigration sees UK's population growth outstrip the rest of Europe By Steve Doughty Last updated at 11:06 AM on 28th July 2010 Britain's population growth is outpacing the rest of Europe, according to figures released yesterday. This country gained more people last year thanks to immigration and rising birth rates than anywhere in the continent. The rise in population in Britain accounted for nearly a third of the 1.4million increase in the number of people living in all of the 27 EU countries, according to the analysis from Brussels. Influx: Britain experienced greater population growth than other European countries last year, according to new figures Influx: Britain experienced greater population growth than other European countries last year, according to new analysis from Brussels It said the increase pushed the EU population above the half billion mark, with just over 501million European citizens at the beginning of this year. The breakdown from the EU’s Eurostat arm showed how fast Britain’s population is rising compared to that of our neighbours and rivals and provoked fresh calls for the Government to curb numbers coming into the country. There are rising fears that pressure on housing, transport, water, power and social services will become overwhelming if official projections that the number of people in the country will reach 70million by 2029 are realised. The Eurostat analysis showed that Britain’s population rose by 412,000 in 2009, up 182,000 because there were more immigrants than emigrants, and up by 231,000 because of rising birth rates. Much of the new baby boom is a result of immigration, and one in four children born last year was born to mothers who were themselves born abroad. The British figures compare with an increase of 34 ,000 in France, mainly a result of high birthrates, and 295,000 in Italy, largely caused by high immigration. Germany’s population fell by 203,000. The UK increase meant the population rise per head in Britain was the greatest of any of the major EU countries. Numbers in Britain grew by 6. for every 1,000 people last year, compared with 5.4 for every 1,000 in France, 4.9 for every 1,000 in Italy, and 3.5 for every 1,000 in Spain. In Germany there were 2.5 fewer people for every 1,000, and Poland’s population grew by fewer than one for every 1,000 people – a clear indication that millions of Poles who left to work abroad in the boom years of the 2000s have yet to return home. Only small and minor countries – Belgium, Sweden, Slovenia and tiny Luxembourg – showed a faster rate of population growth for every 1,000 people than Britain. Sir Andrew Green, of the Migrationwatch think tank, said: ‘This is further confirmation that the population of the UK is rising extremely fast, mainly due to immigration, which accounts for two thirds of the projected population growth of the next 25 years. ‘There are always arguments in favour of immigration. But the majority of people are clear that immigration needs to be brought down. The Government would do well to stick to the promises they have made to the electorate.’ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...urope.html __________________________________ On the front page of Wednesdays issue it said this (and this time I will quote directly from the page because the online version has been severely altered almost beyond recognition) Takealook Daily Mail 28th July 2010 James Chapman and Daniel Martin. Coalition at war on Immigration. The Coalition was at war last night over a key onservative election pledge to impose a a strict annual limit on immigration. Liberal Democrat Vince Cable led a growing rebelion against enforcing a draconian cap on numbers comming into the country, demanding 'as liberal a policy as possible'. The Business Secretary has privately described the idea of a tight limit as 'crazy' at a time when Britain is trying to boost trade. His call revealed deep divisions within the Government, with even some senior Tories sympathetic of watering down the policy. They are understood to include universities minister David Willets. A senior Government source last night said Mr Cable would not back down from his position, which has led to a tense Cabinet stand-off with Home Secretary Theresa May. The row came as it emerged that immigration and rising birth rates mean that Britain accounted for nearly a third of the growth in population across the whole of Europe last year with 412,000 added to the UK total. ---------------------------------------------------------- (There is more to the article but this is the essence related to this thread. However the remaining is important and could be covered in a new thread) Yesterday somebody made a post to this thread and could have been motivated by strong feelings because she joined up to the Forum, made the post then deleted it within half an hour and had only spent about 15 minutes total online. The name was eventually removed from the posters list by the evening. She may have thought better about it, perhaps to save later embarasment. Takealook _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user 14-12-2010, 11:48 PM Post: #14 Vortigern Offline Member * * * Posts: 122 Joined: Jul 2009 Reputation: 0 RE: What's the truth about immigration? The end result of abolishing borders and national states is that the future ceases to be determined by the vote, as the democrat would have you believe, and becomes determined by genetics. If the majority of babies born in the British Isles are not British then the future of the British Isles will not be British (or English, Irish, Scottish or Welsh if you prefer). The largest breeding population in an area eventually defines the present. Imagine if all the British people were dropped into the Chinese population. Within a few generations the majority of their descendents would cease to be a recognisable entity. There would no longer be 'the British', there would instead be those of 'British heritage', and this would be a heritage that would diminish with each generation, until all that remained were a few traits amongst certain individuals discernable only to the scientist. Of course, it is not possible to physically drop the British gene pool into that of China. But what if the equivalent numbers of people were allowed into Britain? Then the same process would occur, what is distinctive about the British, their genetic identity, would dilute and then vanish. There would be no melting pot where the British population mixes with the incoming population to create a new population because the incoming numbers are too great, instead the British population would dissolve in the the incoming population. Liberalism, socialism, democracy - all of these belief systems were created by some caucasoids. Their mistake was they held their beliefs to be universal and forced them upon the world. When caucasoids disappear genetically so will their belief systems. Equally of course, so will their borderless states! The US and the EU will simply fracture into new state structures based on the new population groups. The future rulers will not be brown skinned versions of Cameron,Milliband, van Rompuy or Merkel or whoever, they will be negroids or sub-continentals who may have inherited one or two of their genes - but nothing more. Find all posts by this user 03-03-2011, 05:38 PM Post: #15 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-long.html Migrant cover-up: Reports kept secret by Labour show mass immigration cut wages, raised tensions and that too many stayed too long By James Chapman Last updated at 9:45 AM on 1st March 2011 Comments (345) Add to My Stories Labour is today accused of a ‘shocking’ cover-up over the impact of years of mass immigration as damning official research buried by the last government is revealed. Ministers will publish three reports commissioned at the taxpayers’ expense by Labour politicians – but then apparently ‘sat on’ because of their inconvenient conclusions. Government advisers concluded immigration had depressed wages, threatened to increase community tensions and seen many incomers stay longer than intended. Cover-up: The Coalition promises openness about migration while Labour leader Ed Miliband has admitted his party got it 'wrong' on immigration while they were in power - with millions having their incomes squeezed The Coalition claims the unpublished reports, which cost more than £100,000 to produce, are extraordinary evidence of how Labour lost control of Britain’s borders and then tried to cover it up. The revelations come as Labour leader Ed Miliband admitted his party got it ‘wrong’ on immigration while they were in power – with millions of families having their incomes squeezed as a result. More... Immigration DID hurt wages and Labour 'under-estimated significantly' the influx, admits Miliband Middle-class families 'to be £4,000 worse off'... but rich and poor are insulated from cost of living crisis The last government was widely criticised for failing to impose any controls when ten countries joined the EU, underestimating the number of migrant workers coming to the UK as a result of the changes by a factor of ten. Local government minister Grant Shapps, who will release research commissioned by the Department for Communities and Local Government before last year’s election, said: ‘This is a shocking cover-up by Labour. Labour ministers spent over £100,000 of taxpayers’ money on research reports into immigration, and when they didn’t like the results they tried to brush it all under the carpet. ‘The new Government is being more honest with the public and so we will be making these reports public. We are introducing a series of measures to get immigration under control. Labour’s uncontrolled immigration put unacceptable pressures on public services and harmed community relations.’ The first report, a DCLG ‘economics paper’, was commissioned in 2009 at a cost of £24,275, and looked into immigration and rural economies. Government advisers concluded that immigration had had a negative effect on the wages of British workers, particularly at the lower end of the income scale. They also warned of a big increase in the number of National Insurance numbers being issued, with hundreds of thousands handed to illegal workers as there was no requirement for JobCentre staff to check whether a person was in the country legally. In rural areas, migrants make up a third of food manufacturing workers, a quarter of farm workers and a fifth of hotel and restaurant workers, the report added. ‘There are challenges posed by language barriers, which can make access to services and integration within local communities more difficult,’ it said. Enlarge ‘Housing, healthcare and education could also be affected by an increase in local population, when some existing local services may already be under pressure.’ The largest clusters of migrant workers, the report said, were around Herefordshire, Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire and, to an extent, Somerset and Devon. ‘Far from being an urban phenomenon, recent migrants have increasingly chosen to settle in the countryside, in many cases in areas without a history of migration,’ the report added. The second report, prepared by the Government’s regeneration and economic development analysis expert panel, looked at the impact of the economic downturn on migration. It was commissioned in 2008 at a cost of £3,400. The report showed that the number of migrants entering the country with dependants increased dramatically from 2007 to 2008. Ministers were also warned that community tensions were likely to increase in the event of an economic downturn. The third report, commissioned last year at a cost of £78,500, was designed to measure international and internal migration using information from a national database of school pupils. It found that one in eleven pupils spoke English as a second language. Yesterday, Ed Miliband admitted the Labour government’s open door policy towards immigration from Eastern Europe had put ‘pressure on people’s wages’ by bringing about an influx of cheap migrant labour. He also conceded that Labour ministers had been ‘wrong’ to say that a maximum of 13,000 migrants a year would come to the UK from Eastern Europe following EU enlargement in 2004. In the event, more than 600,000 arrived in the following two years. And he warned that immigration had helped widen the gap between rich and poor by piling pressure on those in lower skilled jobs. Labour’s former immigration minister Phil Woolas claimed last year that even at party gatherings, senior figures were reluctant to talk about one of voters’ chief concerns. ‘We had imposed a gag on ourselves,’ he said. And by the 2010 election, when the party did finally discuss the issue, ‘the public thought we were shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted and even worse that we were doing it for electoral gain _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user 04-03-2011, 09:21 AM Post: #16 hetzer Offline Senior Member * * * * Posts: 474 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? The rot started in 1948 when Atlee, without any reference to or consent of the indeginous people, allowed ex colonials to have access to British Passports and therefore British Nationality. This was an act of appeasement and a grave mistake in my opinion. Another excuse he used was that postwar Britain needed the colonials to fill the job market and do the menial work that the Brits didn't want to do. Hundreds of thousands poured in thereby needing housing, schooling etc. The nation could have coped with the indigenous needs, the British always used to. Since that year, the nation has starts to be watered down with all sorts of ethnics from abroad. Idi Amin's Ugandan Asians followed, plus any riff raff who muttered the 'asylum' word. There has been a downward spiral ever since, they have bred so fast, unfortunately even with Brits, been given totally equal rights and privileges, it is disgrace. The situation will be difficult to reverse now, impossible even. Britain will be coffee coloured within the next fifty years at this rate. Some may find that ok, I don't, won't and never will. However many laws are passed, many will never accept this situation. _________________ The broad mass of a Nation will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one! Find all posts by this user 19-03-2011, 03:47 PM Post: #17 Takealook Offline Posting Freak * * * * * Posts: 901 Joined: Apr 2010 Reputation: 2 RE: What's the truth about immigration? Yet again EU immigrants are being scapegoated but as page 6 of the PDF shows there are far more migrants from none EU countries which is (as usual) ignored. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ly-UK.html _________________ Behind every sentence is a greater story - Takealook Find all posts by this user Enter Keywords___________ Search Thread « Next Oldest | Next Newest » Pages (2): « Previous 1 2 Possibly Related Threads... Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post UAF v BNP & EDL. Mass Immigration: A Frankfurt School Technique Takealook 13 3,245 17-12-2010 03:29 AM Last Post: Takealook Anyone want to discuss Eastern European immigration into the UK and Ireland? dekarnys 9 2,249 05-07-2010 11:44 PM Last Post: Takealook European immigration is an Issue! dekarnys 0 514 19-05-2010 09:59 PM Last Post: dekarnys * View a Printable Version * Send this Thread to a Friend * Subscribe to this thread __________________________________________________________________ UK Column, The Annex, Scott Lodge, Scott Road, Plymouth PL2 3DU - 01752 478050 - editor@ukcolumn.org The UK Column is not affiliated with any political party. 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Reply 1 of 2 1 2 Next Thread Tools Search this Thread Old 27-11-2013, 22:42 #1 Puterkid Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,895 Do other EU countries pay housing benefit and other benefits to EU immigrants? __________________________________________________________________ Just wondered really. Do countries like Germany and France provide housing and pay benefits to EU immigrants? Are they also getting large numbers entering their country's? Are their populations also not happy about it? If they don't, why is the UK going to be seen as the 'nasty country'? Puterkid is offline Reply With Quote Puterkid View Public Profile Find More Posts by Puterkid Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement. Old 27-11-2013, 22:53 #2 Leindub Forum Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Ireland Posts: 141 We do in Ireland. Infact we have the second most generous dole in europe. At the start of the euro crisis it was 216euro per week, it's now 188euro per week. We also have generous housing allowance and other allowances. We've had unprecedented immigration to Ireland in the last ten years. Our print, radio and T.V media never debate it. Someone might call you a racist. To my knowledge Ireland has the most generous childrens allowance in europe, think it is about 140euro a month. The Polish pay about 10 euro. A working Polish parent in Ireland gets the balance of 130euro from our government to send to their child back home. Our social affairs minister tried to do something about it and the EU basically told her to do a runner. We in Ireland are generally percieved in europe as the nice English speaking member, the only time we cause a little hassle is when we vote no to EU referenda but we always give europe the 'right' answer, second time round. Leindub is offline Reply With Quote Leindub View Public Profile Find More Posts by Leindub Old 27-11-2013, 23:02 #3 Hypnodisc Forum Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,621 Quote: Originally Posted by Puterkid Just wondered really. Do countries like Germany and France provide housing and pay benefits to EU immigrants? Are they also getting large numbers entering their country's? Are their populations also not happy about it? If they don't, why is the UK going to be seen as the 'nasty country'? Yes. They pay such benefits. Yes. (Doesn't France have the greatest number of immigrants?) Yes/No. Other countries are generally less xenophobic than Britain, although of course, you have whingers and fascists everywhere. Hypnodisc is offline Reply With Quote Hypnodisc View Public Profile Find More Posts by Hypnodisc Old 27-11-2013, 23:15 #4 Puterkid Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,895 Thanks for the answers. So, if I turn up in Germany with no job or place to live, I would be entitled to their equivalent of JSA and could expect accommodation provided by the state? I guess what will happen eventually is that the poorer countries will continue to lose population, whilst the richer ones grow and grow! It doesn't seem a hugely well thought through policy. Puterkid is offline Reply With Quote Puterkid View Public Profile Find More Posts by Puterkid Old 27-11-2013, 23:30 #5 ItJustMyOpinion Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 15,825 Quote: Originally Posted by Leindub We do in Ireland. Infact we have the second most generous dole in europe. At the start of the euro crisis it was 216euro per week, it's now 188euro per week. We also have generous housing allowance and other allowances. We've had unprecedented immigration to Ireland in the last ten years. Our print, radio and T.V media never debate it. Someone might call you a racist. Anyone notice the BBC are going with the new immigration restrictions as their top story. Trying to make up for their previous bias I guess. ItJustMyOpinion is offline Reply With Quote ItJustMyOpinion View Public Profile Find More Posts by ItJustMyOpinion Old 28-11-2013, 00:26 #6 Markjuk Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,157 Quote: Originally Posted by Hypnodisc Yes. They pay such benefits. Yes. (Doesn't France have the greatest number of immigrants?) Yes/No. Other countries are generally less xenophobic than Britain, although of course, you have whingers and fascists everywhere. If you feel the need to be the big man throwing around the usual left wing derogatory terms then fine. No one really cares as the majority of the population support moves restricting foreigner benefits. Markjuk is offline Reply With Quote Markjuk View Public Profile Find More Posts by Markjuk Old 28-11-2013, 00:28 #7 woot_whoo Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13,388 Quote: Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion Anyone notice the BBC are going with the new immigration restrictions as their top story. Trying to make up for their previous bias I guess. Damned if they do and damned if they don't, I guess. woot_whoo is offline Reply With Quote woot_whoo View Public Profile Find More Posts by woot_whoo Old 28-11-2013, 00:31 #8 howard h Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gtr Manchester UK Posts: 4,205 r/e benefits, especially unemployment, why can't there be an EU-wide maximum for people not in the country of their passport - so if the max was e.50/week, if I moved to Germany and claimed the dole, that's the maximum I could expect irrespective of what Germans get? Or - the country you are in pays you the lower of the two countries - so if it's e70 in the UK, but e 40 in Bulgaria (haven't a clue - that's just guessing) a |Bulgarian cannot expect the UK to pay any more than he/she would expect in Bulgaria. ?? howard h is offline Reply With Quote howard h View Public Profile Find More Posts by howard h Old 28-11-2013, 00:41 #9 Markjuk Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,157 Quote: Originally Posted by howard h r/e benefits, especially unemployment, why can't there be an EU-wide maximum for people not in the country of their passport - so if the max was e.50/week, if I moved to Germany and claimed the dole, that's the maximum I could expect irrespective of what Germans get? Or - the country you are in pays you the lower of the two countries - so if it's e70 in the UK, but e 40 in Bulgaria (haven't a clue - that's just guessing) a |Bulgarian cannot expect the UK to pay any more than he/she would expect in Bulgaria. ?? What about a better option. Come here to work or you are not welcome. Markjuk is offline Reply With Quote Markjuk View Public Profile Find More Posts by Markjuk Old 28-11-2013, 00:47 #10 Jol44 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 8,401 So basically it means that poor Brits won't be able to claim them abroad once Cameron gets his way? Jol44 is offline Reply With Quote Jol44 View Public Profile Find More Posts by Jol44 Old 28-11-2013, 00:53 #11 johnny_boi_UK Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279 Germany, holland and austria do. Their governments are being pressured to try and curb atleast some of the payments that go to migrants that do not work. Hypno, your mud slinging doesnt help matters. I would like to consider myself pro eu (changes do have to be made to make it more democratic) but i am all for removing child and unemployment benifits from those migrants that do not work. johnny_boi_UK is offline Reply With Quote johnny_boi_UK View Public Profile Find More Posts by johnny_boi_UK Old 28-11-2013, 01:05 #12 Old Lefty Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 312 Quote: Originally Posted by johnny_boi_UK Germany, holland and austria do. Their governments are being pressured to try and curb atleast some of the payments that go to migrants that do not work. Hypno, your mud slinging doesnt help matters. I would like to consider myself pro eu (changes do have to be made to make it more democratic) but i am all for removing child and unemployment benifits from those migrants that do not work. So what would you do if say, the person and child were from Syria, they had seen their families bombed and poisoned, shot, etc etc (and that's just the basic things that have been happening to them), they came here to try and build a new life and couldn't get a job to begin with until they had adjusted from the trauma. You do realise why there are so many immigrants do you? Why people are risking drowning etc to escape? And before you ask, we don't get many of them, more than 2 million have gone to places like Lebanon, Jordon, Turkey etc, 24,000 have gone to Germany, No, not all immigrants are fleeing things as bad as that, but do you really think people uproot themselves from their families and travel and try and start a new life for the fun of it, or for a few paltry pounds? Do you think British people never go to live abroad? Or is that different? You think they don't get benefits in the countries they go to if they loose jobs etc? Perhaps you would like to have a look at this link, with countries and the number of immigrants tey have, which includes numbers as a percentage of the population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...orn_population Take a look down to Jordan and Hong Kong, smaller than us, much higher percentage of immigrants. Old Lefty is offline Reply With Quote Old Lefty View Public Profile Find More Posts by Old Lefty Old 28-11-2013, 01:07 #13 anndra_w Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,979 Quote: Originally Posted by Leindub We do in Ireland. Infact we have the second most generous dole in europe. At the start of the euro crisis it was 216euro per week, it's now 188euro per week. We also have generous housing allowance and other allowances. We've had unprecedented immigration to Ireland in the last ten years. Our print, radio and T.V media never debate it. Someone might call you a racist. To my knowledge Ireland has the most generous childrens allowance in europe, think it is about 140euro a month. The Polish pay about 10 euro. A working Polish parent in Ireland gets the balance of 130euro from our government to send to their child back home. Our social affairs minister tried to do something about it and the EU basically told her to do a runner. We in Ireland are generally percieved in europe as the nice English speaking member, the only time we cause a little hassle is when we vote no to EU referenda but we always give europe the 'right' answer, second time round. It's just a shame the BBC and the British press don't report this to the idiotic masses who obsess over the immigration issue. Something has to be done to tackle British Xenophobia. It's almost acceptable because it's become so widespread with the press and the conservatives most to blame for inflaming it. anndra_w is offline Reply With Quote anndra_w View Public Profile Find More Posts by anndra_w Old 28-11-2013, 01:12 #14 johnny_boi_UK Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279 Quote: Originally Posted by Old Lefty So what would you do if say, the person and child were from Syria, they had seen their families bombed and poisoned, shot, etc etc (and that's just the basic things that have been happening to them), they came here to try and build a new life and couldn't get a job to begin with until they had adjusted from the trauma. You do realise why there are so many immigrants do you? Why people are risking drowning etc to escape? And before you ask, we don't get many of them, more than 2 million have gone to places like Lebanon, Jordon, Turkey etc, 24,000 have gone to Germany, No, not all immigrants are fleeing things as bad as that, but do you really think people uproot themselves from their families and travel and try and start a new life for the fun of it, or for a few paltry pounds? Do you think British people never go to live abroad? Or is that different? You think they don't get benefits in the countries they go to if they loose jobs etc? Picking at the low hanging fruit i see Notice i said migrants not asylum seekers. johnny_boi_UK is offline Reply With Quote johnny_boi_UK View Public Profile Find More Posts by johnny_boi_UK Old 28-11-2013, 01:12 #15 Old Lefty Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 312 Quote: Originally Posted by anndra_w It's just a shame the BBC and the British press don't report this to the idiotic masses who obsess over the immigration issue. Something has to be done to tackle British Xenophobia. It's almost acceptable because it's become so widespread with the press and the conservatives most to blame for inflaming it. Would you believe, I know someone on another forum who have emigrated to Ireland and is doing her very best to instill them with English Xenophobia. I'm glad to say, she's not having much luck. Old Lefty is offline Reply With Quote Old Lefty View Public Profile Find More Posts by Old Lefty Old 28-11-2013, 01:14 #16 Old Lefty Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 312 Quote: Originally Posted by johnny_boi_UK Picking at the low hanging fruit i see Notice i said migrants not asylum seekers. Low fruit? Why do you think migrants move? If they had a good life they wouldn't move, would they? Old Lefty is offline Reply With Quote Old Lefty View Public Profile Find More Posts by Old Lefty Old 28-11-2013, 01:22 #17 Hypnodisc Forum Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,621 Quote: Originally Posted by Markjuk If you feel the need to be the big man throwing around the usual left wing derogatory terms then fine. No one really cares as the majority of the population support moves restricting foreigner benefits. The majority of the idiot population, maybe. It doesn't make them right just because they've been misled into thinking this is a bigger problem than it is Quote: Originally Posted by johnny_boi_UK Germany, holland and austria do. Their governments are being pressured to try and curb atleast some of the payments that go to migrants that do not work. Hypno, your mud slinging doesnt help matters. I would like to consider myself pro eu (changes do have to be made to make it more democratic) but i am all for removing child and unemployment benifits from those migrants that do not work. It's not really mud slinging. It's just putting forward the point that no other country is as obsessed with this sort of nonsense as us. If there was a big problem with non-working migrants claiming those benefits I might be more inclined to worry about the economics of it - but I'm not, as there isn't a big problem. The facts and figures speak for themselves. Hypnodisc is offline Reply With Quote Hypnodisc View Public Profile Find More Posts by Hypnodisc Old 28-11-2013, 01:27 #18 OLD HIPPY GUY Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: preferably on my Harley Posts: 7,402 Quote: Originally Posted by Leindub We do in Ireland. Infact we have the second most generous dole in europe. At the start of the euro crisis it was 216euro per week, it's now 188euro per week. We also have generous housing allowance and other allowances. We've had unprecedented immigration to Ireland in the last ten years. Our print, radio and T.V media never debate it. Someone might call you a racist. To my knowledge Ireland has the most generous childrens allowance in europe, think it is about 140euro a month. The Polish pay about 10 euro. A working Polish parent in Ireland gets the balance of 130euro from our government to send to their child back home. Our social affairs minister tried to do something about it and the EU basically told her to do a runner. We in Ireland are generally percieved in europe as the nice English speaking member, the only time we cause a little hassle is when we vote no to EU referenda but we always give europe the 'right' answer, second time round. I lived and worked in the republic from 99 until 2006 (Mullingar) and for the last year I was there I was on the dole unfortunately, no fault of my own, the entire factory closed making me redundant, the Irish dole was around 20 pounds a week more than the UK dole (at the time 2005/6) and I could also claim for my rent, and I wasn't made to feel as though I was vermin either, as the unemployed here are, I applied for and was granted a place on a business study course, with a view to going self employed, the course lasted 6 months, one day a week, and from the moment I started the course my 'dole' went up by 20 euros a week, and I wasn't expected to look for work, and anything I earned from my self employment wile on the course was not taken from my benefits, see the Irish actually try to HELP the unemployed rather than kicking them in the teeth, Had I finished the course, I would have been able to apply for an almost guaranteed non re-payable grant of up to 10 thousand euros, to help start my business, and I would STILL be allowed to claim 'dole' for another 4 years after going self employed, on a sliding reduction of 25% per year, But so good is the propaganda here, that huge numbers of the herd think we have the most generous welfare system in Europe, we certainly have one of the best, but far from THE best, It was a real culture shock when I arrived back in the UK, and turned up at the job-centre and asked for 'help' I can tell ya, OLD HIPPY GUY is offline Reply With Quote OLD HIPPY GUY View Public Profile Find More Posts by OLD HIPPY GUY Old 28-11-2013, 01:28 #19 johnny_boi_UK Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 279 Quote: Originally Posted by Old Lefty Low fruit? Why do you think migrants move? If they had a good life they wouldn't move, would they? You are trying to compare those who are fleeing a warzone aka an asylum seeker to an economic migrant. These are two completley different things. A much more interesting country from your wiki link iswthe uae. johnny_boi_UK is offline Reply With Quote johnny_boi_UK View Public Profile Find More Posts by johnny_boi_UK Old 28-11-2013, 01:38 #20 OLD HIPPY GUY Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: preferably on my Harley Posts: 7,402 Quote: Originally Posted by Markjuk If you feel the need to be the big man throwing around the usual left wing derogatory terms then fine. No one really cares as the majority of the population support moves restricting foreigner benefits. and believing that an opinion or point of view based on prejudice and ignorance, shouldn't be opposed or argued against because "the majority" agree, worked really well in a certain European country, in the early half of the last century didn't it? although, I've yet to see any proof, of this "majority" support, all we seem to see is lots of very vocal 'righties' TELLING everyone what the "majority" thinks, and yet if the "majority" DO agree with this, then why aren't the BNP in power? and should we expect a UKIP government in 2015 if "the majority" do indeed agree?, OLD HIPPY GUY is offline Reply With Quote OLD HIPPY GUY View Public Profile Find More Posts by OLD HIPPY GUY Old 28-11-2013, 01:56 #21 Pemblechook Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: North Wales..Near Chester, UK Posts: 1,453 Germany has tended to be the number one destination with the chance of well paid work. I Pemblechook is offline Reply With Quote Pemblechook View Public Profile Find More Posts by Pemblechook Old 28-11-2013, 02:10 #22 DinkyDoobie Forum Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 9,298 Quote: Originally Posted by Hypnodisc If there was a big problem with non-working migrants claiming those benefits I might be more inclined to worry about the economics of it - but I'm not, as there isn't a big problem. The facts and figures speak for themselves. Which facts and figures are those? DinkyDoobie is offline Reply With Quote DinkyDoobie View Public Profile Find More Posts by DinkyDoobie Old 28-11-2013, 02:11 #23 Markjuk Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,157 Quote: Originally Posted by DinkyDoobie Which facts and figures are those? Ones from mickey mouse Wikipedia no doubt Markjuk is offline Reply With Quote Markjuk View Public Profile Find More Posts by Markjuk Old 28-11-2013, 02:17 #24 Markjuk Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,157 Quote: Originally Posted by OLD HIPPY GUY and believing that an opinion or point of view based on prejudice and ignorance, shouldn't be opposed or argued against because "the majority" agree, worked really well in a certain European country, in the early half of the last century didn't it? although, I've yet to see any proof, of this "majority" support, all we seem to see is lots of very vocal 'righties' TELLING everyone what the "majority" thinks, and yet if the "majority" DO agree with this, then why aren't the BNP in power? and should we expect a UKIP government in 2015 if "the majority" do indeed agree?, The majority agree on restricting benefits to foreigners, there is nothing racist or xenophobic about that. Certainly no need to join extremist parties such as the BNP in order to support this common sense approach in order for you to stoke you cl.aims of racism or xenophobia. What is occurring with this policy is common sense - something that some who share your patterns of thought seriously lack. Markjuk is offline Reply With Quote Markjuk View Public Profile Find More Posts by Markjuk Old 28-11-2013, 02:40 #25 Hypnodisc Forum Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 14,621 Quote: Originally Posted by DinkyDoobie Which facts and figures are those? Quote: Originally Posted by Markjuk Ones from mickey mouse Wikipedia no doubt C4 News have done various Fact-Checks on supposed 'benefit tourism' and they've all concluded that the 'problem' is a virtually negligible one. Christ, there was even a BBC Magazine article about this only yesterday, link here. This sentence sums up the findings: Quote: But whats the evidence for benefit tourism? The answer is that there is very little - and it is an extremely complex picture. Most people who emigrate here do so to work or study, not to claim benefits. Of course, there will always be exceptions but people don't generally arrive here solely to claim benefits. Hypnodisc is offline Reply With Quote Hypnodisc View Public Profile Find More Posts by Hypnodisc Reply 1 of 2 1 2 Next Previous Thread | Next Thread Thread Tools Search this Thread Show Printable Version Show Printable Version Email this Page Email this Page Search this Thread: ____________________ Go Advanced Search Forum Jump [ Politics_____________________________________________] Go All times are GMT. The time now is 20:58. 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OR Login with Digital Spy account Threads: 1,899,888 Posts: 70,643,109 Members: 547,268 Welcome to our newest member, D_P1 Cameron stops UK migrant �3,000 bond plan Reply 3 of 3 Previous 1 2 3 Thread Tools Search this Thread Old 02-07-2013, 08:27 #51 ItJustMyOpinion Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 15,825 Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius Agreed. Key word bogus of course. The way the government is doing it now is tackling all education and international marriages. You forget the small matter of discrimination being illegal. If one section of society are doing something they want to stop, they must apply the counter measures to everyone. Foreign students at quality universities has increased. Its the east end language colleges that have been shut down. The decrease from India is most likely due to the student route being used as a work route. Now they can't use it as a way in to Britain for work as under the last Labour government, they will just find another country. The remainder will probably be the genuine ones. ItJustMyOpinion is offline Reply With Quote ItJustMyOpinion View Public Profile Find More Posts by ItJustMyOpinion Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement. Old 02-07-2013, 08:49 #52 ItJustMyOpinion Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 15,825 Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius Hear hear. A friend of mine, British born white guy, university educated, decent job, has a girlfriend who happens to be from Hong Kong. No sinister plan to flood the country with oriental people there, but thanks to the government constantly needing to bend over backwards to pander to those who are paranoid about immigration he's having a complete bitch of a time trying to be together with her. We live in a globalised world, people don't always fall for someone from their home village any more. http://www.expatforum.com/britain/ti...bers-drop.html http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/br...r/document/301 Quote: Originally Posted by expatforum The number of visas for non European Union family members reached a peak of 70,000 in 2006. It has since declined and is at its lowest levels for many years. The top country for all family visas in 2012 was Pakistan at around 7,500. This was followed by India at 3,300 with Bangladesh, Nepal and the United States all between 2,000 and 3,000 visas. In 2006 over 53,000 visas were issued to partners to enter the UK, some gaining immediate settlement. It has since declined to 35,000 in 2011. There was a further decline to 31,000 in 2012 that may reflect the impact of the new salary threshold for overseas spouses. The top country for partner visas in 2012 was Pakistan with almost 7,000, followed by India with 2,900, Bangladesh with 2,000 and the United States with 1,800 grants. It is obvious that we are not just talking about young British backpackers meeting the love of their life while exploring the world, whose family probably haven't married a foreigner for generations and just want to be together. People such as you friend are inconvenienced because of the the cultural and economic lifestyle decisions of others and how that affects controlling immigration numbers and integration. Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius Well duh. Asked a blank question "Do you want more unskilled workers in the country" of course people will say no. Who wants that? Ask more reasonable questions like "should people be free to marry and be together with foreigners, even if they're not university educated" and you'll get very different answers. You could also ask them what they think of people marrying every generation to people in the old country, or whether they think those that bringing over foreign spouses should let the tax payer pick up the bill. I guarantee you that whatever you ask the public I can ask a counter question before they answer, so don't think you would always get the answer you want. Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius You realise that's effectively sending a message that they've bought the right to stay in the UK as long as they like? Do you not see how its really encouraging any poor people who want to visit for a few months to try and work illegally while they're here? Can you not see how it is causing a major inconvenience and really putting off people who just want to visit for a few weeks? The main point of the bonds is to cover the expense incurred by the border agency in locating, detaining and deporting over stayers and any cost to the NHS or public services etc. If they are that poor they won't be able to afford it. Its no inconvenience, just include a cheque with their visa application at our embassy. Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius Really, this was a stupid, stupid plan. Whatever your views on immigration you have to see that. What I see is a system that was being abused and the best way to deal with that is to change the rules to favour immigration control over the migrant. ItJustMyOpinion is offline Reply With Quote ItJustMyOpinion View Public Profile Find More Posts by ItJustMyOpinion Old 02-07-2013, 10:20 #53 Josquius Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,349 Quote: Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion http://www.expatforum.com/britain/ti...bers-drop.html http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/br...r/document/301 It is obvious that we are not just talking about young British backpackers meeting the love of their life while exploring the world, whose family probably haven't married a foreigner for generations and just want to be together. People such as you friend are inconvenienced because of the the cultural and economic lifestyle decisions of others and how that affects controlling immigration numbers and integration. See, the thing is the government designs anti-immigrant policies to target the troublesome sorts and appeal to you guys but in the process of doing that everyone completely ignores the damage it would do to people who aren't doing anything wrong. These wealth restrictions for instance. You might say it stops them bringing over cousins they've decided to marry just to get into the UK...do you now think how maybe it is discriminating against innocent poor people? It really is applying one law to the poor and one law to the rich. Things shouldn't work that way. The true best way to stop Asian Brits marrying people from back home, as you're so scared about, is to increase their quality of life and integrate them more into mainstream British society. Carrots not sticks. Quote: You could also ask them what they think of people marrying every generation to people in the old country, or whether they think those that bringing over foreign spouses should let the tax payer pick up the bill. I guarantee you that whatever you ask the public I can ask a counter question before they answer, so don't think you would always get the answer you want. Well yes, that's exactly my point. Those questions you're proposing are biased and will give obvious answers if they're blank yes or no questions. Quote: The main point of the bonds is to cover the expense incurred by the border agency in locating, detaining and deporting over stayers and any cost to the NHS or public services etc. If they are that poor they won't be able to afford it. Its no inconvenience, just include a cheque with their visa application at our embassy. So we punish law abiding people to punish other foreigners who don't obey the law? Quote: What I see is a system that was being abused and the best way to deal with that is to change the rules to favour immigration control over the migrant. Change the rules? Thats the way the rules already are. Its a disgusting myth that Britain somehow has open door immigration as it patently doesn't, its one of the hardest countries to migrate to there is. Josquius is offline Reply With Quote Josquius View Public Profile Find More Posts by Josquius Old 02-07-2013, 10:29 #54 Nick1966 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: North London Posts: 12,586 Quote: Originally Posted by WhiteFang ...Cameron and the Tories ... will not shut the borders. Exactly why do Mr Cameron and the Conservatives want an "open door policy" on borders. They must have some reasoning behind their policy. Nick1966 is offline Reply With Quote Nick1966 View Public Profile Visit Nick1966's homepage! Find More Posts by Nick1966 Old 02-07-2013, 10:34 #55 jmclaugh Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 34,181 Well if they actually kept track of those coming here on visas and made sure they were able to remove them if they outstayed them the idea of bonds wouldn't be required. Cameron however is giving mixed messages on immigration and still seems to be of the view economic growth in developing markets is somehow linked to immigration from those markets. jmclaugh is offline Reply With Quote jmclaugh View Public Profile Find More Posts by jmclaugh Old 02-07-2013, 10:34 #56 trevgo Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Leafy London Posts: 11,687 The only thing wrong with the policy was the ridiculously low sum of �3,000. Pathetic decision by Cameron. trevgo is offline Reply With Quote trevgo View Public Profile Find More Posts by trevgo Old 02-07-2013, 11:05 #57 ItJustMyOpinion Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 15,825 Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius See, the thing is the government designs anti-immigrant policies to target the troublesome sorts and appeal to you guys but in the process of doing that everyone completely ignores the damage it would do to people who aren't doing anything wrong. These wealth restrictions for instance. You might say it stops them bringing over cousins they've decided to marry just to get into the UK...do you now think how maybe it is discriminating against innocent poor people? It really is applying one law to the poor and one law to the rich. Things shouldn't work that way. As I keep explaining the government is not able to discriminate, its against the law. They have no choice but to apply it equally to everyone, even though according to the graph, 'Figure 3. Partner Visa Grants, Top Ten 2005-2012' http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/br...r/document/301 there is a complete disproportionate use of spouse visas and settlements by ethnic minorities. There is no other way, any attempt to be selective and Keith Vaz will be screaming racism and discrimination. Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius The true best way to stop Asian Brits marrying people from back home, as you're so scared about, is to increase their quality of life and integrate them more into mainstream British society. Carrots not sticks. How do we do that? It is chain migration that is damaging integration. Breaking the link with the old country will make self imposed segregation much harder. Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius Well yes, that's exactly my point. Those questions you're proposing are biased and will give obvious answers if they're blank yes or no questions. No more biased than not pointing out all the facts to the public and letting them decide. Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius So we punish law abiding people to punish other foreigners who don't obey the law? They are just a deposit, law abiding people will have their money returned when they leave. Quote: Originally Posted by Josquius Change the rules? Thats the way the rules already are. Its a disgusting myth that Britain somehow has open door immigration as it patently doesn't, its one of the hardest countries to migrate to there is. Things like human rights, no detention of minors, interference from the foreign office, work in the favour of the migrant. ItJustMyOpinion is offline Reply With Quote ItJustMyOpinion View Public Profile Find More Posts by ItJustMyOpinion Old 02-07-2013, 11:11 #58 WhiteFang Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Narnia Posts: 3,396 Quote: Originally Posted by Nick1966 Exactly why do Mr Cameron and the Conservatives want an "open door policy" on borders. They must have some reasoning behind their policy. I just think its their economic policies and money / trade issues taking over common sense.Cant understand the Conservatives as they seem to put money before anything else. WhiteFang is offline Reply With Quote WhiteFang View Public Profile Find More Posts by WhiteFang Old 02-07-2013, 11:15 #59 smudges dad Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort William and Aberdeen Posts: 12,930 Quote: Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion How do we do that? It is chain migration that is damaging integration. Breaking the link with the old country will make self imposed segregation much harder. Things like human rights, no detention of minors, interference from the foreign office, work in the favour of the migrant. Some of your points are amusingly absurd. Human rights work in EVERYONE'S favour, including yours smudges dad is offline Reply With Quote smudges dad View Public Profile Find More Posts by smudges dad Old 03-07-2013, 01:58 #60 Josquius Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,349 Quote: Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion As I keep explaining the government is not able to discriminate, its against the law. They have no choice but to apply it equally to everyone, even though according to the graph, 'Figure 3. Partner Visa Grants, Top Ten 2005-2012' http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/br...r/document/301 there is a complete disproportionate use of spouse visas and settlements by ethnic minorities. There is no other way, any attempt to be selective and Keith Vaz will be screaming racism and discrimination. So because you can't discriminate (why would you want to?) you instead hurt everyone? I'm not sure I like that conclusion. The more reasonale way is to not pick on anyone. Quote: How do we do that? It is chain migration that is damaging integration. Breaking the link with the old country will make self imposed segregation much harder. It isn't self imposed. Its imposed by a mixture of the ideology of fear us vs. them that the right is fond of spreading and the crappy economic situation they find themselves in, which as in poor white areas leads to a it of a siege mentality. Quote: No more biased than not pointing out all the facts to the public and letting them decide. Which I support. Yet so many people are woefully unaware of the facts and seem to think its easy for anyone to just up and move to the UK and start collecting benefits. This couldn't be further from the truth. Quote: They are just a deposit, law abiding people will have their money returned when they leave. There mere fact of the deposit is making things annoying for them and treating them like second class people. �3000 isn't a lot of money for wealthy Indians but for middle class Indians it is still quite a lot of money. Quote: Things like human rights, no detention of minors, interference from the foreign office, work in the favour of the migrant. Am I misreading or are you saying we go back to the Victorian age and do away with human rights and start treating children breaking the law as we would adults? Josquius is offline Reply With Quote Josquius View Public Profile Find More Posts by Josquius Old 10-07-2013, 20:12 #61 ItJustMyOpinion Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 15,825 Revealed: The financial cost of Theresa May's immigration policy __________________________________________________________________ Here's one for Styker, apparently Some academics from Middlesex University have worked out that the �18,600 limit will actually cost us more taxpayers money, rather than saving it. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/...s-immigrationl Quote: Originally Posted by politics.co.uk The UK will lose �850 million over ten years as a result of new visa restrictions on foreign spouses of British citizens, new research suggests. Analysis of the government's impact assessment from Middlesex University strongly suggests income requirements on foreign spouses could be putting an additional burden on the taxpayer. "It appears the government got its sums wrong when designing this policy," said Dr Helena Wray, from the School of Law at Middlesex University, who co-authored the research. "When the cost-benefit calculations for this policy in the impact assessment are properly carried out, the figures actually show that the income requirement could cost the public purse �850 million over ten years. "It will not reduce the benefits bill; in fact, it is likely to increase it as single people are more likely to claim benefits than those living with a partner." Easy to claim, how about some facts. Quote: But the research shows that non-EEA foreign spouses, who had the right to work but not to claim benefits, were never a burden on the welfare state. Researchers pointed out that Home Office statistics only counted the cost of services to migrants but excluded their overall economic contribution, in a move which went directly against the advice of the migration advisory committee. This cooking of the statistics hid the economic effects of the policy, according to analysts. So have they factored in the �5,000 cost per child, per year when they start their families? If there economic contribution is so high, how come they don't even earn �18,600? Also when do they stop counting them as migrants, when they get settlement? They should count the entire life of the foreign spouse and 50% of their children until they are adults. Quote: Government figures also fail to take into account the difference in welfare claims depending on marital status. Single parents, for example, are more likely to draw on state support if they are alone than if their partner is given the right to work in the UK. Once a non-EEA partner is in the UK and providing the family with two potential incomes, the family unit is more likely to earn above the cut-off point for welfare. A quarter of the family migration foreign spouses are from Pakistan. As far as I know culturally and religiously they are expected to get married first, live together as a married couple and then have children in the traditional way. Besides if they are both working whose looking after the children? Plus won't many people just emigrate. ItJustMyOpinion is offline Reply With Quote ItJustMyOpinion View Public Profile Find More Posts by ItJustMyOpinion Old 10-07-2013, 20:17 #62 Ethel_Fred Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 22,775 Quote: This cooking of the statistics Doesn't sound like this government Ethel_Fred is offline Reply With Quote Ethel_Fred View Public Profile Find More Posts by Ethel_Fred Old 10-07-2013, 20:22 #63 ItJustMyOpinion Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 15,825 Quote: Originally Posted by Ethel_Fred Doesn't sound like this government Well we don't know the university academics haven't rigged their results. What they consider valid costs of migrants and what I consider valid costs may not be the same thing. How many did they ask, who did they ask? ItJustMyOpinion is offline Reply With Quote ItJustMyOpinion View Public Profile Find More Posts by ItJustMyOpinion Old 10-07-2013, 20:42 #64 ItJustMyOpinion Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 15,825 Response from the government. http://www.expressandstar.com/busine...shake-up-cost/ Quote: Originally Posted by expressandstar But the Home Office rejected the report's findings. It said the �850 million figure referred to in the report was "incorrect" as it included the taxes paid by migrant partners, but not their costs to public services, and therefore overestimated the positive effect of family migrants. "We do not accept the conclusions reached by Middlesex University," a Home Office spokesman said. "We estimate that the minimum income threshold, set following advice from the independent Migration Advisory Committee, will benefit the taxpayer by �660 million over 10 years. "This includes both the expected savings in public services and the reduction in taxes paid by migrant spouses and partners". So they did not deduct the British citizens costs from their tax's. Anyway do foreign spouses really start working straight away and pay tax's, or do they start a family? The good news is in the figures though. Quote: Home Office estimates suggested the policy would reduce family visas by 17,800 a year. Recent figures suggest that guess was, if anything, an underestimate. There has been a 58% drop in overall applications, including an 83.6% drop in the number of visas issued to male partners of a British spouse. ItJustMyOpinion is offline Reply With Quote ItJustMyOpinion View Public Profile Find More Posts by ItJustMyOpinion Old 10-07-2013, 21:47 #65 Styker Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 18,641 Quote: Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion Here's one for Styker, apparently Some academics from Middlesex University have worked out that the �18,600 limit will actually cost us more taxpayers money, rather than saving it. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/...s-immigrationl Easy to claim, how about some facts. So have they factored in the �5,000 cost per child, per year when they start their families? If there economic contribution is so high, how come they don't even earn �18,600? Also when do they stop counting them as migrants, when they get settlement? They should count the entire life of the foreign spouse and 50% of their children until they are adults. A quarter of the family migration foreign spouses are from Pakistan. As far as I know culturally and religiously they are expected to get married first, live together as a married couple and then have children in the traditional way. Besides if they are both working whose looking after the children? Plus won't many people just emigrate. Like I've always said, these bunch of rules are all about reducing the immigration numbers, nothing else. The Tories do not care how and who they do over to get to their target on this either imho. @ the Tories on that! As for your questions on money, how long was this study looking at on financial contribution from married couples with one half being foreign? A year, or longer? Over years the foreign spouse may well start working, but in any case, families with heritage to the indian sub continent do support each other generally and finacially, especially when it comes to marriage, the cost of marriage, setting up of a home and in business etc etc. The Tories do not seem to want to hear about that, its all about the cutting of the numbers hence why they won't allow self employed people to "get round" the minimum income rule by having or be gifted 16 thousand in savings or more for at least 6 months but they do allow that to people who are employed by a company. Could that be because again, many peeople with heritage to the indian sub continet are in self employed positions? 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Powered By Blogger Monday, 25 March 2013 A genuine chance of a job In his big immigration speech today, David Cameron took an axe to the rhetorical and philosophical basis of the Coalition's welfare reforms. I don't think he intended to do so, and few people seem to have picked up on it, but the implications of his remarks are nevertheless profound. I'm referring to this. Rhetorically addressing an East European migrant, the sort who might be tempted to "come and take advantage of our generosity without making a proper contribution to our country" he first reminds them of what conditions are already imposed on British jobseekers: You will be subject to full conditionality and work search requirements and you will have to show you are genuinely seeking employment. If you fail that test, you will lose your benefit. But then he goes further: And as a migrant, we’re only going to give you six months to be a jobseeker. After that benefits will be cut off unless you really can prove not just that you are genuinely seeking employment but also that you have a genuine chance of getting a job. But why would that help reduce the benefits bill? Surely anyone who is genuinely seeking work has a genuine chance of finding it? After all, the whole sanctions regime, which has been steadily cranked up during the past decade (under Labour and Coalition governments alike) and which can now lead to a claimant being thrown off jobseekers' allowance for three whole years, is based on the assumption that such incentives will encourage people to get back into work. An assumption that being out of work for a long period is a personal failing that can be corrected by a strong kick up the backside. But in that case, what does having "a genuine chance of getting a job" mean? It means, presumably, that you can be genuinely seeking work, genuinely doing everything that the DWP requires of you, and more, to get off benefits and into employment, and still not have a genuine chance of a job. Cameron is talking about migrants. But there's no logical reason why it this applies only to migrants. He mentions inadequate spoken English as one possible barrier to finding work, which will form part of a "robust" test applied to unemployed migrants. He doesn't mention the other criteria that will be applied, but it's not hard to think of ones that apply equally to native jobseekers. Such as: low educational attainment, age, a drink problem, a patchy employment record, or (most of all, perhaps) lack of available jobs. Because it is a truth universally unacknowledged (by mainstream politicians, at any rate) that there are many unemployed people who have no real chance of getting a job, however often they have their benefits stopped and however many workfare schemes they are sent on. To acknowledge this fact, though, would make a nonsense of much of the political debate around welfare, which seems premised on the assumption that the way to reduce unemployment is to make life as difficult as possible for the unemployed. Foreigners can be told to leave or starve, but what is to be done with British-born people who, according to what are now going to be formally devised criteria, have "no genuine chance of a job." Informally, we have the answer: they are going to be forced to work, not for the national minimum wage (which would at least be reasonable) but for the inadequate benefits that they had hitherto been given while "looking for work". But workfare programmes, thus far, have been justified on the principle that they exist as a stepping stone towards proper paid employment, even though someone working a full week at a fairly intense (if unpaid) job is likely to have insufficient time and energy for useful job-hunting. No politician has yet suggested that performing state-directed labour for around a quarter of the national minimum wage is meant as an alternative to normal employment. Not yet. But perhaps the way is now open for such an admission, as the new concept of "genuine chance of employment" is tried out, initially on migrants from other EU countries. The next development in benefits conditionality might be precisely this, that after a period (perhaps two years, perhaps one, perhaps even six months) of permitted job-hunting a claimant will be subjected to a "genuine chance of employment" test, and anyone failing it will be put onto underpaid work for life. I can imagine some employers being quite enchanted by the prospect of not having to pay unskilled workers properly, or at all. Of course it will distort the labour market, taking away jobs from paid employees: but they needn't despair, because after a suitable interval they'll become eligible for workfare too. Posted by The Heresiarch at 6:07 pm Labels: Cameron, Politics, Society A genuine chance of a job 2013-03-25T18:07:00Z The Heresiarch Cameron|Politics|Society| Newer Post Older Post Home Welcome Heretics Confined by Lucifer to one of the lower circles of Hell, the Heresiarch nevertheless continues to campaign against all forms of orthodoxy. 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In the case of guest posts, copyright remains with the original author. Articles may not be republished in full or in bulk without permission. Limited extracts may be quoted with attribution and link. #Biased BBC » Feed Biased BBC » Comments Feed Biased BBC » The BBC And Immigration…The Benefits ‘Soft Touch’ Comments Feed BlowBack The Race Card Biased BBC Skip to content * Home * Editorial Contact * Site FAQs * Technical Contact * In Their Own Words * In Their Own Tweets « BlowBack The Race Card » The BBC And Immigration…The Benefits ‘Soft Touch’ By Alan | October 20, 2013 - 7:31 am | BBC bias Saturday morning and Justin Webb announced (08:54) that ‘You can’t consider London ‘English’‘ in a discussion about what constitutes Englishness. So the capital of England is no longer ‘English’ by race or culture. But the BBC, Mark Easton in particular, thinks immigration is a good thing….and is prepared to be economical with the truth to defend that position. The BBC’s reaction to an EU report on migration to the UK was slow and when it eventually came up with something it was designed to play down the effects of migration. EU study on migrants rebuffs ‘benefit tourism’ claims A European Commission study has found that jobless EU migrants make up a very small share of those claiming social benefits in EU member states. The study, carried out by a consultancy for the EU’s executive, suggests that claims about large-scale “benefit tourism” in the EU are exaggerated. This is the BBC’s favourite part of the report which it emphasised and headlined on news reports: The European Commission says EU migrants continue to make a net contribution to their host countries’ finances, by paying more in taxes than they receive in benefits. That is disingenuous. It isn’t the real picture because the BBC and the EU aren’t including housing, use of NHS services, access to police and legal services, schooling, social services and all those other indirect benefits that migrants receive living in this society…..never mind the cultural and social costs to Britain as a whole as it is forced to take these migrants without anyone asking them whether this is acceptable or not. The Telegraph notes: The EU, the consultants, the report on benefit tourists and £71m in fees The authors of an official European Commission report used to suggest that “benefits tourism” is largely a myth have received more than £70  million in consultancy fees from the European Union, The Telegraph can disclose and then examines the BBC’s reporting: Analysis: Was the BBC’s reporting of migrant issue fair and balanced? Last Monday night the BBC’s 10 O’Clock News – its most popular television news programme – broadcast a bulletin by Mark Easton, the home editor, in the wake of the publication by the European Commission (EC) of its report on migration. What the BBC said Introduction by presenter Huw Edwards: “The European Commission has found that jobless migrants from different parts of the EU make up a very small share of those claiming benefits. “The study suggests that claims about large-scale benefits tourism in the EU are exaggerated. “But the British Government still wants tougher EU rules and the Commission has asked the Government to publish any evidence it has to back up its claims. Our home editor Mark Easton reports.” What the BBC said Three Polish migrants interviewed by Easton each say they have “never met anyone” from their country coming to Britain just to claim hand-outs. One of the three unnamed interviewees says he came here in 1943. Easton: “Well, reflecting the views in this restaurant, today’s European Commission report quotes research suggesting that, actually, EU migrants are less likely to claim benefits than British citizens and describing ‘benefit tourism’ as a ‘canard’, or a myth.” Analysis The word “canard” does not appear in the 276-page document, nor does the word “myth”. What the BBC said Easton: “Three years ago the Commission asked the UK Government for evidence of benefit tourism but says ministers have failed to provide any.” Unfortunately for the incompetent or corrupt Mark Easton the BBC’s own reporting recently backed up the ‘myth’. On Friday Victoria Derbyshire spoke to Syrian migrants attempting to get to Britain...after travelling through Turkey, Italy, Germany and France…….for once the BBC was open about the reasons the migrants were making a mass move towards the UK. They were asked why they wanted to come to Britain….and told that ‘all the migrants want to come here.’ The reply was universal…for the money they would be given, free houses, jobs and ‘papers’, i.e. they would become ‘citizens’ of the UK with all the rights and benefits associated with that…and also their family will be able to come to the UK also. Why wouldn’t they stay in France? because ‘France wouldn’t treat them well.’ That is, it wouldn’t give them all those handouts and free housing. The deputy mayor of Calais said Britain was a soft touch…that it should change its rules if it wants to make it harder for migrants to come here. Though these were Syrian migrants it is a racing certainty that the same attitudes and expectations prevail amongst many other migrants attempting to ‘slip into’ the UK illegally, and amongst those who come openly as EU citizens able to claim many benefits as soon as they enter the country especially if they have children in tow. The reality on the streets is far different to the happy picture that the BBC paints of a multicultural society joyously embracing the ever increasing diversity that enriches our society…and makes us less racist….as we of course are in the BBC’s eyes. and nice irony that Dykes, the man who said the BBC was ‘hideously white’, should now be embroiled in his own bit of ‘hideously white’ controversy as he packs an FA commission with white faces (though he did try and recruit some of the, er…BAME community)….the ex-BBC man being bitten by the same ‘race card’ bullies that the BBC usually so readily gives airtime to. * * * * * Bookmark the permalink. « BlowBack The Race Card » 106 Responses to The BBC And Immigration…The Benefits ‘Soft Touch’ 1. Geoff Thomas says: October 20, 2013 at 8:51 am The BBC reporting admitted the argument that immigrants are of net benefit because generally they are more in work than British people and so contribute more, proportionately, to the tax take than British nationals. Such a notion of net benefit is easily challenged, even on its own narrow terms, because it ignores the fact that immigrants are taking jobs which ought to be done by British nationals, who then being unemployed, must receive state benefits. Naturally the BBC did not raise this obvious point. Vote 48 likes + doris says: October 20, 2013 at 10:47 am Wrong. They fill highly skilled jobs in many sectors because there are properly trained UK staff available. At the lower end, immigrants have always come in to do the jobs that Brits don’t want to do. Plus the employers don’t want to pay a decent wage so have to bring them in. Look at the growing number of stories of people being treated as slave workers and you get a feel some of the conditions at the bottom end. Vote 4 likes o Mark Thompson says: October 20, 2013 at 11:01 am I didnt know packing shelves was a skilled profession? Vote 43 likes # Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 11:06 am ‘ do the jobs that Brits don’t want ‘ Makes you wonder how those jobs got done before the advent of mass immigration -perhaps you mean jobs that you feel are beneath you or your children Vote 36 likes @ Chris says: October 20, 2013 at 1:10 pm No. They were better paid, so people were willing to do them. Its all basic economics covered by Adam Smith. But socialist pro migration people don’t really concern themselves with reality. Vote 25 likes o johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm Dear Doris ‘The study — whose details were first disclosed in The Telegraph — showed that more than 600,000 “non-active” EU migrants were living in the UK at a possible cost to the NHS alone of £1.5 billion a year’. Do you have trouble understanding English, or just economics? Vote 32 likes o F*** the Beeb says: October 20, 2013 at 12:43 pm This whole “immigrants work harder/they do the jobs Brits don’t want to do” myth is so tedious, not to mention incredibly prejudiced. Most people here want to work. Vote 32 likes o johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 7:42 pm Dear Doris Please read the Telegraph report – you’ll find far from either ‘highly skilled’ or menial jobs the Eastern Europeans interviewed did pretty ordinary jobs most unemployed Brits should be having a go at, such as care worker and van driver. And there’s always an argument that you’re better in any kind of work than no work at all! (opportunity for recognition, new contacts, other openings, keeping up your CV etc etc – not rocket science, eh?) Sort your myths from your facts, then come back on here and have a proper grown-up debate. Vote 5 likes o Basileus says: October 20, 2013 at 10:58 pm They do the low paid jobs do they ? Explain why I walked into my local chemist to get my prescription, horrified by more than a dozen in there, only ONE other white face, (most African muslim women in hijabs) when I finally got served – by a white LOCAL face – she was fuming. With a very quiet voice, she seethed she had not been thanked ONCE, most couldn’t speak english, and the ONLY ONE PAYING WAS ME Vote 9 likes 2. RCE says: October 20, 2013 at 9:00 am The costs in terms of courts and policing are considerable. Check out these leading enrichers: https://www.west-midlands.police.uk/wanted/#7 Vote 37 likes 3. Albaman says: October 20, 2013 at 9:15 am Surprisingly (not) neither Alan nor GeorgeR picked up on this: “One tenth of Britain’s total expat population claim up to £23,318 in employment benefits each year from Germany. Official figures show more than 10,000 British citizens living in the country receive the benefits subsidised by the German government. Nine in ten of them have been deemed fit to work.” http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2468189/Dont-mention-ze-dol e-One-tenth-Britains-expat-population-claiming-23-000-unemployment- payments-Germany-benefits-Europe-revealed.html Vote 7 likes + RCE says: October 20, 2013 at 9:31 am And your point is? Vote 33 likes + Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 9:31 am In Germany? I wonder how many of those are British in any sense that Arthur Wellesley might recognise? Just a question you understand Vote 43 likes o Albaman says: October 20, 2013 at 9:46 am Is that Aurthur Wellesley, born in Dublin? Just a question you understand. Vote 5 likes # Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 9:49 am But famously said when told that he was Irish “a dog born in a stable is not a horse” Just the answer you understand Vote 44 likes @ doris says: October 20, 2013 at 10:49 am Who would want to be Irish? Curious that Vance denies he’s Irish because the old racism (No blacks, Irish or dogs) still pervades this site! But what is British…it isn’t English nor was it such. Vote 6 likes - zoo keeper says: October 20, 2013 at 12:14 pm can you produce any evidence that there were once signs in windows saying “no blacks irish dogs”? you can’t because there wasnt any. Just great extreme left wing propaganda by a bunch of marxist muppets, just like you. Vote 30 likes - kev says: October 20, 2013 at 12:15 pm IFRAME: http://www.youtube.com/embed/168Veee6tWU?v ersion=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo= 1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent Vote 7 likes - kev says: October 20, 2013 at 12:22 pm Doris = Nck Lowles How’s you’re friend comrade Delta doing? Vote 13 likes = Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 12:44 pm IFRAME: http://www.youtube.com/embed/QN5TgItG Wlk?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0 &showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=tr ansparent Vote 18 likes - johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm Doris’s definition of racism: any argument condemning the Left’s internationalist agenda. Vote 29 likes = kev says: October 20, 2013 at 12:43 pm the left want a one world government with them running it. Vote 24 likes + Doublethinker says: October 20, 2013 at 9:37 am Well the Germans should toughen up their welfare rules just as the UK should. The BBC has lied so much to us about immigration being ‘a good thing’, that it is getting tangled up in its own web of deceit. Firstly , there has never been any democratic sanctioning of mass immigration. A point the BBC NEVER mentions. Secondly, how can having a several million unemployed Brits not be connected in part, to having imported millions of people, often young, who will work for less money. The BBC is always so concerned about the unemployment figures, particularly youth unemployment. Thirdly , if a substantial number of immigrants bring with them disease , eg TB , how can this not place a strain on the NHS , which the BBC is so ready to label as over-stretched. How can importing millions of immigrants not affect housing availability which the BBC is so concerned about. The list goes on and on but the BBC is caught up in its liberal left lies and deceit that it simply has to carry on with its obviously stupid contradictions and denials. Vote 59 likes o john in cheshire says: October 20, 2013 at 10:23 am Quite so, and if we hadn’t killed, through abortions, circa 200,000 English babies each year over the past many decades then we wouldn’t have needed a single immigrant to fill those vacancies that the socialists keep telling us there aren’t enough indigenes to fill them. Vote 22 likes # doris says: October 20, 2013 at 10:50 am Waooo!!!! Women have no right to decide on giving birth because we need to outbreed the immigrants. Logic of a mouse. Vote 10 likes @ kev says: October 20, 2013 at 12:19 pm IFRAME: http://www.youtube.com/embed/168Veee6tWU?versio n=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_ policy=1&wmode=transparent Vote 4 likes @ F*** the Beeb says: October 20, 2013 at 12:44 pm Better to have a mouse’s logic than no logic other than to take the opposite point in order to get attention. Vote 16 likes @ johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 8:08 pm It’s not all about women’s rights, you know, Doris. The teenagers who have had EIGHT abortions: Shocking figures show girls use ‘traumatic’ procedure as a form of contraception Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149753 /Teenage-girls-EIGHT-abortions-let-appalling-wa y-38-000-undergo-termination-single-year.html#i xzz2iI4ko6MY And: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18249026 ‘In 2011, 68,105 women having an abortion had already had at least one termination – up from 64,303 in 2010. Vote 2 likes # exposed says: October 20, 2013 at 1:09 pm Careful, start making loathsome comments like that and Guest Who will accuse you of being a false flag (in his inimitable, incoherent fashion). Because it is unthinkable that any regular contributor to this site would write anything quite so distasteful. Vote 9 likes @ Guest Who says: October 20, 2013 at 2:19 pm Oo, luvly, a new name from the Borg box joins us! Welcome. It’s not as if there isn’t plenty of room to join the others in the human denial of service wave this miserable Sunday. But, what’s this, nothing to do with BBC Bias, more in hoping of covering up its being exposed, and so another debut solely gunning straight for other posters? Say it ain’t so! ‘will accuse you of being a false flag’ ‘Accuse’ is such a harsh word. And often deployed on what may simply be the view of another. Still, it can rally the troops, so why not? And in any case, why would I need to raise such a thing as it appears it is one you are sensitive enough to to introduce yourself unprompted. Your future sensibility-aware contributions of taste and relevance must be eagerly anticipated. Vote 12 likes o pah says: October 20, 2013 at 2:30 pm Not to mention the ‘minimum wage’ which allows employers to employ people from abroad at virtually slave levels whilst pricing out UK Nationals from the job market. Vote 7 likes + Span Ows says: October 20, 2013 at 9:42 am How do the BBC report it? Vote 6 likes + Guest Who says: October 20, 2013 at 9:42 am Albaman, a real joy to see you finding the.. Daily Mail… to be an original source of data you appear to find now serves, for your first post of the day… that again has nothing to do with what the national broadcaster too often misreports or fails to address. This rather pulls the rug from under at least one of the weekend team overnight of Borg-cyclers. Well done, you. But dark looks over the half of shandies at the lunchtime debrief one fears. One looks forward to you working through all others in your Philip Madoc notebook of naughtiness, naming names of those who haven’t mentioned something about political matters that suits you. Vote 16 likes o Albaman says: October 20, 2013 at 9:50 am “…………………. that again has nothing to do with what the national broadcaster too often misreports or fails to address.” Are you suggesting that Alan’s original comment has nothing to do with the BBC? “But dark looks over the half of shandies at the lunchtime debrief one fears.” Really? Once again you suggest I “work” alongside others and once again you have not a shred of evidence to support this very tedious assertion. Vote 7 likes # Guest Who says: October 20, 2013 at 10:14 am Your struggle with a life of tedium I can only sympathise with. Maybe a change in work or what passes for a life mission? That said, success in again seeing you prove your true aims here posing, but not answering, does entertain chez GW. Why are you not to be found when a supposedly impartial, professional broadcaster is caught with its frillies knotted ‘reporting’ all manner of things that end up costing innocents reputations and the licence fee payers yet more that does not go to programming? But in the literal sense of the word, if defence of the BBC is your role or desire, it is indeed clear that you here fail to “work” for them by any measure. Now, to Stewart’s most apposite question, ignoring tabloid press, how does the BBC report what so exercises you so? Just the answer would be good… It may even be on site by now. Go on, you know you want to. And who knows, maybe then a matter of BBC coverage at last to bring to the debate? Vote 16 likes @ doris says: October 20, 2013 at 10:52 am I can’t understand a word of this. Vote 6 likes - Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 10:56 am Stay away from the left wing cant for a while and you’ll find your cognitive ability’s will improve. Vote 23 likes - kev says: October 20, 2013 at 12:17 pm IFRAME: http://www.youtube.com/embed/168Veee6tWU?v ersion=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo= 1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent Vote 4 likes - F*** the Beeb says: October 20, 2013 at 12:45 pm Then get an education. There’s no ambiguity to that comment whatsoever. Vote 12 likes - Guest Who says: October 20, 2013 at 12:51 pm ‘I can’t understand a word of this. Or much of anything, evidently. Doesn’t seem to stop you making great show of this constantly, though. Noticing you and Alabaman are now both doing everything possible in support of each other not going near relevant questions, now today’s latest chicken run has crashed and burned. Vote 16 likes = Albaman says: October 20, 2013 at 12:53 pm “Noticing you and Alabaman are now both doing everything possible in support of each other not going near relevant questions………..” Yet another invalid assertion – are you on a “quota”? Vote 6 likes * Guest Who says: October 20, 2013 at 1:14 pm ‘are you on a “quota”?’ Happy to answer. Nope. Popped in for lunch. Just matching you, post for post. Difference being, I like this forum and want to be here. You seem… conflicted, at best, in why you are here and how it makes you feel. And my posts are simply in response to yours trying to steer away from discussions of BBC bias. So, how’s about you answer some posed of you, if the experience is not too ‘stunning’ for you? You really don’t need to look too far. Vote 15 likes @ Albaman says: October 20, 2013 at 11:03 am “Your struggle with a life of tedium I can only sympathise with. ” Stunning assertion from someone who does not even know me. This baseless comment sums you up very adequately. Vote 6 likes - Flawedlogic says: October 20, 2013 at 11:37 am Albaman, If you are unhappy with someone else’s opinion of you how can you then make the same baseless comment about them? In my opinion after reading many of your posts you constantly fail to provide any evidence to back up your own claims, you resort to name calling and strawman arguments, and it seems that when shown factual evidence which highlights your own fibs you resort to your favourite trick of calling the other posters liars. So actually I agree that you are a tedious little person. This opinion I have come too after reading your own body of work which unfortunately litter this site and your complete lack of ability to debate. Vote 28 likes = Albaman says: October 20, 2013 at 11:49 am Flawedlogic joins the band of bBBC regulars who resort to insults when anyone deems to challenge the “chosen few”. As he appears to take a great interest in my posts perhaps he can evidence where I have called “other posters liars”. Vote 6 likes * Guest Who says: October 20, 2013 at 1:06 pm ‘Flawedlogic joins the band of bBBC regulars*’ More like another who does not share or agree with your views and/or attempts to impose them by crashing around butting in with off topic comments, demanding answers and refusing to answer any yourself. And when you are pwned completely, again, you resort irony-free to flailing about making personal accusations to avoid being drawn back to areas that leave your paucity of argument totally exposed. ‘perhaps he can evidence’ Don’t tell ‘im, FL… he has ‘taken interest’ in you now, whipped out his notebook and you’re now on his ‘list’ too! *’We few, we happy few, we band of brothers” Few in number true, vs. an armada of BBC supporters, but a cheery bunch in the main. Certainly beats being like the po-faced miserabilists epitomised by today’s knackered Staffel. Vote 18 likes = Beez says: October 20, 2013 at 2:14 pm Weak, illogical points are the foundation of all leftists rhetoric. Vote 12 likes + johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 12:38 pm So that’s 10,000 compared with the 600,000 inactive European ‘migrants’ in the UK. Albaman Gun Aims Shoots Oh, no – just when his foot was getting better from his last ‘accident’. Vote 20 likes o Albaman says: October 20, 2013 at 12:47 pm You really need to look a bit further than a Telegraph “scare story”. http://fullfact.org/factchecks/are_there_600000_unemploye d_eu_migrants_in_the_uk-29237 Vote 4 likes # johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 12:56 pm And you need to read the ‘scare story’ properly. Where does it say ‘unemployed’? And are you suggesting that ‘inactive’ immigrants do not take money out of the economy? What about the impact on housing BBC/Labour are constantly bleating about? The NHS? Education? The whole infrastructure of the country put under the strain by all these additional people an unelected bureaucracy has forced upon us? Perhaps you are willing to pay any price to see your internationalist/EU superstate agenda succeed, but when the country descends into chaos I trust you will have the guts to put your hand up and say ‘my fault, mate’. Vote 28 likes @ Albaman says: October 20, 2013 at 1:24 pm Lets assume some future UK government decides that all “inactive” EU citizens currently in the UK have to return to their country of origin. In response all other EU member states reciprocate and demand that “inactive” UK residents return to the UK. Based on 2008 figures this would see a not insignificant proportion of the 350,000 UK citizens in Spain having to return to the UK. http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFP UB/KS-SF-09-094/EN/KS-SF-09-094-EN.PDF Without considering the latter the Telegraph article remains a “scare story”. Vote 6 likes - pah says: October 20, 2013 at 2:36 pm So you are saying inactives come here for the weather? Vote 14 likes - johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 3:32 pm And how many of those 350,000 are retirees with their own income e.g. pensions, which they will continue to draw if they returned? – you know, mainly people who have worked most of their life in the UK? You really should think about what you write before hitting the ‘send’ key. By the way, yet again you’ve avoided answering the question. And by the way (2) if you’re an expat in Spain and can’t speak the lingo you don’t get an interpreter paid for by the taxpayer. Vote 13 likes + Andy S. says: October 20, 2013 at 8:17 pm 10,000 Brits in Germany claiming benefits would, I think, cost far less to the German taxpayer than 600,000 migrants from the E.U. cost us. Vote 5 likes + Basileus says: October 20, 2013 at 11:02 pm Groping for excuses for NINE TENTHS of the third world immigrants living UNINVITED on benefits in Britain. People like you are as big a problem as THEY are. Let me have a wild guess – you work for a publicly funded area ? Council most likely, but right up to BBC – where the corrupts get their mates and same sex lovers comfortable jobs lecturing the rest of us and ranting “homophobia” when it wasn’t even part of the discussion, eh ? Every bit as fascist as those you rant against Vote 3 likes 4. doris says: October 20, 2013 at 10:40 am Alan doesn’t seem to do much research. Indeed London is not an English city nor has it been for a long time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London But let’s not get facts in the way of another groundless rant. Vote 6 likes + Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 10:52 am A long time? since the last labour government you mean, based on your own evidence. control the past control the future Vote 30 likes o F*** the Beeb says: October 20, 2013 at 12:46 pm Nothing like someone contradicting their own invalid opinions with their own sources. The trolls really are out in force today. Vote 22 likes + johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 7:10 pm Have you got an Atlas, Doris? Last time I looked London was, in fact, situated fairly and squarely in the beacon to democracy, openness, fairness and tolerance that is England. Also it is still governed from England, and has an English mayor. Despite your wish for every city and borough up and down the country to be more like Newham than the New Forest, I’m afraid England and its culture very much prevails despite yours and your comrades’ undemocratic efforts to destroy everything good that we stand for and replace it with attitudes, customs and laws from some of the most primitive and inhumane cultures on this earth. So, rather than sweat your tiny little bollocks off trying to destroy what is good, go forth into the world and try to change what is bad. There are plenty of places to choose from (Syria, Iraq, Iran, Zimbabwe, Somalia, Nigeria, North Korea……) Toodle pip, old chap! Vote 8 likes + johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 7:33 pm Dear Doris A tired old myth you and your fellow England-haters repeatedly parrot: ‘Britain is a nation of immigrants’. More people have now migrated to the UK in a single year (2010) than did so in the entire period from 1066 to 1950, excluding wartime. In fact, in the nearly 900 years between 1066 and 1950 just a quarter of a million people migrated to what is now the UK, mainly Jews and Huguenots, excluding the Irish of course who were for a long period a part of the same country. http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/briefingPaper/document/269 Vote 8 likes 5. Not a racist says: October 20, 2013 at 10:44 am I disagree with Justin Webb on most things. However, I used to live in London and he’s right to say that it isn’t English anymore. Nor is it British. It’s a foreign country. There are very few of the original inhabitants left there, except maybe in a few middle class enclaves. If New Labour had been honest about their plans to institute the biggest mass immigration for over a thousand years they’d never have been elected. At least the BBC is finally telling the truth about it. Now that its too late to undo it. Vote 39 likes + doris says: October 20, 2013 at 10:54 am You may not have noticed but the capital cities of the world are now very cosmopolitan. Look at the mix of people murdered in a shopping mall in Kenya. From all four corners of the world. Go to any major city in the world and the is now great diversity as people travel and move and work and fall in love and stay. What’s wrong with it? Vote 6 likes o Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 10:59 am Everything Vote 35 likes o F*** the Beeb says: October 20, 2013 at 12:47 pm You think ‘diversity’ is only possible with state-enforced racial and ethnic mixing. Speaks volumes for the contempt you have for the British people. Vote 32 likes # Chris says: October 20, 2013 at 1:12 pm Indeed. Its comparable to the Khmer rouge amd Nazi Aryanism. The second you allow politicians to determine racial mix and ethnic make up – you cross the line. Vote 18 likes o Alan Larocka says: October 21, 2013 at 10:11 am I wouldn’t fall in love with a place where I could be shot in a shopping mall with my kids by some muslim idiots. Vote 3 likes + Sir Arthur Strebe-Grebling says: October 20, 2013 at 11:49 am Indeed, the only reason that the 2012 Olympics came to London is because the bid committee kept emphasising that London wasn’t British. Vote 26 likes o doris says: October 20, 2013 at 1:20 pm Wasn’t British? What games were you watching? Or are you one those sad men who hated the VERSION of Britain on display as you are no longer part of it? Union jacks dominated the proceedings because for a change the racists had lost the argument and flag could represent us all. Vote 7 likes # Demon says: October 20, 2013 at 3:43 pm The Union Flag always represented us all. It was only you left-wing fascists that tried to makee out it didn’t. You are trying to do the same for the Cross of St., George. You are such bigots. Vote 21 likes 6. George R says: October 20, 2013 at 11:34 am Continual BBC-NUJ bias for mass immigration into U.K. Even in its newspaper review for Sunday, Beeboids ignore the ‘Sunday Telegraph’s (£) main front page report on Immigration (and BBC bias), http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx Instead, Beeboids go with the ‘Telegraph’s secondary story about high-cost ‘green’ agenda:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24599964 Vote 17 likes + George R says: October 20, 2013 at 11:39 am Beeboid’s political bias in its pro-immigration propaganda:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?pageOffset=&pageSi ze=&sel=site&searchPhrase=bbc+bias+on+immigration Vote 15 likes + Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 11:41 am The report on the confrontation between police and native protesters in New Brunswick is very interesting but what happened to the link to the Telegraph? Vote 3 likes 7. Beeboidal says: October 20, 2013 at 11:44 am Accordng to the BBC’s Mark Easton Another figure quoted is that £1.5 billion of NHS spending goes on workless EU migrants. The Commission says this represents as little as 0.7 per cent of health service spending and EU workers contribute more into the UK economy than they take out. Mark chooses not to tell us that this 0.7% is an estimate and that the EU also estimate that it could be as much as 1.1%. According to my calculations, £1.5 billion represents 1.44% of the NHS budget for the relevant year (2012), or 1.38% if you include an additional capital spend of £4.5 billion. I think EU might be cheating here, including both NHS and private sector health spending in the total healthcare spending figure. Even so, I can’t see how they arrived at the low estimate of 0.7%. Vote 15 likes + doris says: October 20, 2013 at 1:18 pm The actual number on jobseekers is 60000. The rest are retired, students or spouses who still have to register their presence. How many similarly jobless people of British origin live in France or Spain who are retired etc? And use local services. Send them all back then? Do you want 100000 geriatrics to turn up next week in the UK? Be careful what you wish for. Vote 6 likes o Beeboidal says: October 20, 2013 at 1:44 pm Thanks for the strawman. Now perhaps you can offer a comment on what I did write about – the accuracy of Mark Easton’s reporting. Vote 18 likes o johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 3:37 pm Think about what you write, Doris. Those expats in France, mainly retirees, are living off their own income which they earned from a full working life in the UK, unlike the ‘inactives’ of mainly Eastern European extraction living here on Treasure Island and enjoying everything the country can offer for absolute zilch. Vote 11 likes # Beeboidal says: October 20, 2013 at 4:47 pm Not only that, JTF, a pensioner can get a Form S1. Armed with this, they can get their healthcare costs paid in the EU country in which they reside – paid by the NHS. A pensioner would be stupid not to do this, but do they do it? Well, the very same EU report shows us that the estimates of the cost of EU ‘non-actives’ to their healthcare budgets is 0.2% for Spain and 0%* for France (same figures for both upper and lower estimates). So it is likely that in very large part we are already covering the healthcare costs of our pensioners in these two countries. * Yes, that is correct – 0% the report says. How the French, and some others, achieve this I don’t know. It’s certainly something Mark Easton wasn’t going to explain to me. Vote 5 likes 8. John Anderson says: October 20, 2013 at 12:48 pm People here have constructed lists of the BBC’s worst “comedians”. How about the BBC’s worst “reporters”. The people who you know will be lying through their teeth, twisting the story, as soon as they come on. The ones who have proved themselves time after time after time to be totally untrustworthy as a source of unvarnished news. Mark Easton is way up there – and so is Roger Harrabin. And Mark Mardell. Any more ? Vote 20 likes + George R says: October 20, 2013 at 1:04 pm Dominic Casciani. Lyse Doucet. Vote 13 likes o George R says: October 20, 2013 at 1:13 pm Norman Smith. Mishal Husain. Barbara Plett. Vote 16 likes o chrisH says: October 20, 2013 at 4:56 pm Lyse Doucet seconded…and a lifetimes tossing achievement award for Laurie Taylor and his son Matthew…the Brian and Nigel Clough of sociology.albeit without a prize…ever! Vote 4 likes + John Anderson says: October 20, 2013 at 1:26 pm Oh Lord – I forgot Jeremy Bowen. Vote 16 likes + John Anderson says: October 20, 2013 at 1:36 pm “Framing the news” is the insidious technique they often use – to twist and distort. (But some of them just lie deliberately and directly.) So it could be the “Hall of Frame” ? Vote 14 likes 9. F*** the Beeb says: October 20, 2013 at 12:51 pm By the way, ‘doris’ is just Conspiracy Theory Central, Maurice, The Men In White Coats etc. using yet another screenname to try and make it look like his vapid, baseless comments have more support than they actually do. And yet he doesn’t even bother to change his typeset even slightly or choose any kind of different phraseology (he always makes sure to say “why let facts get in the way” among other clues). It’s pathetic how desperate he is to try and get attention from people he claims not to respect. Vote 22 likes + doris says: October 20, 2013 at 1:11 pm By the way, ‘doris’ is just Conspiracy Theory Central, Maurice, The Men In White Coats etc. using yet another screenname to try and make it look like his vapid, baseless comments have more support than they actually do. Wrong on every point but it’s an old tactic. How many other names do you have other than utterly offensive childish one? And yet he doesn’t even bother to change his typeset even slightly or choose any kind of different phraseology How do you change your typeset? Doh. Surprised you know the word phraseology. BTW not letting facts getting in the way is a pretty common phrase just like I’m not a racist but…. which about 50% of the posters have employed, most notoriously Alan and David Vance. Does that mean they are one and same. Clearly on your logic it does. Oh, and I don’t respect racists, ultra-nationalists, misogynists, bigots or fascist dipsticks but I do enjoy showing up their inanities! Bit of fun at the weekend on a rainy day. Vote 6 likes o Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 1:44 pm “Oh, and I don’t respect racists, ultra-nationalists, misogynists, bigots or fascist dipsticks” So every one that doesn’t share your pseudo-Marxist world view or resents having demographic change forced upon them against their expressed will Vote 28 likes # Demon says: October 20, 2013 at 3:18 pm He/she has just condemned virtually the whole of the BBC, the Islamists, the UAF, Galloway, Lauren Booth etc. Strange, I thought he/she was supporting them. Vote 16 likes @ johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 8:03 pm Doris is an irony-free zone. Vote 4 likes o Andy S. says: October 20, 2013 at 8:25 pm Doris, or whatever else you choose to call yourself on subsequent posts, STICK YOUR RACISM UP YOUR FUNDAMENTAL ORIFICE!!!!! Those well worn and overused accusations are the last refuge of a bigoted leftie who knows he/she has just lost the argument. Vote 9 likes 10. Frank Words says: October 20, 2013 at 1:17 pm “London is not an English city” My atlas be out of date then because it certainly seems to be in England according to the 2012 edition. Vote 14 likes 11. George R says: October 20, 2013 at 1:24 pm Not for INBBC to report?:- “Britain: Muslim Polygamists to Get More Welfare Benefits” by Soeren Kern (2012). http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3234/muslim-polygamists-welfare-b enefits Vote 12 likes + George R says: October 20, 2013 at 1:30 pm “London is no longer an English city and that’s how it got the Olympics, says John Cleese” (2011). http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2032956/John-Cleese-Lo ndon-longer-English-city-thats-got-2012-Olympics.html Vote 13 likes o George R says: October 20, 2013 at 1:54 pm “600,000 move out in decade of ‘white flight’ from London: White Britons are now in minority in the capital. “Census figures show that 620,000 white Britons left the capital in a decade. “White Britons are the minority in London for the first time. “They make up 45 per cent of London’s population, with Asians being the second largest group.” By JACK DOYLE. (Feb 2013). http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281941/600-000-d ecade-white-flight-London-White-Britons-minority-capital. html Vote 18 likes 12. George R says: October 20, 2013 at 2:05 pm “The Islamic future of Britain. “Britain is in denial. If population trends continue, by the year 2050, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.” By Vincent Cooper. (June, 2013). http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3770/the_islamic_future_of_br itain Vote 15 likes + chrisH says: October 20, 2013 at 9:09 pm Really good article this…a must read I`d say. Vote 3 likes 13. Umbongo says: October 20, 2013 at 3:02 pm Just to observe that the BBC canteen contingent has successfully diverted this thread – as was, I suspect, its sole reason for posting comments – from Alan’s retailing of the Telegraph’s open and shut case concerning BBC bias. Not one of the canteeneer’s comments contradicted the Telegraph’s/Alan’s chapter and verse evidence on this one. All we got was an, apparently, concerted effort to obscure the fact that the BBC was caught bang to rights here. The BBC official response, which was set out in the original article in this morning’s Telegraph, was pathetic in its weakness and ineffectiveness: a weakness and ineffectiveness mirrored by its employees’ contributions to this thread. Vote 24 likes + Guest Who says: October 20, 2013 at 3:23 pm ‘Asked to reply to a series of detailed questions about its bulletin, a BBC spokeswoman said: “Our coverage of this report was fair, balanced and impartial.’ Well, if she says so. But often that is not enough for some, eh, guys? It is also intriguing that the BBC seems almost unique in being accorded the useful case closer of having un-named spokespeople whose views, doubtless, also ‘do not reflect the views of the corporation’. But this would obviously be impossible to challenge further as even staff representative names seem their unique ‘little secret’ too. Vote 15 likes + John Anderson says: October 20, 2013 at 4:20 pm I had posted a link to the Telegraph stories early this morning in the Open Thread – because the Telegraph gave a line-by-line fisking analysis of Easton’s deliberate mis-reporting. You can bet there is no-one in BBC management putting the weaselly Easton on the mat – “Why was your reporting so warped ? – the Telegraph has torn it to shreds.” Nope. Because any criticism from the Telegraph is axiomatically wrong, BBC “reporters” can do no wrong. Even if their report gets thrashed by the lead story of a major UK newspaper, there won’t even be a slap over the wrist. Just the usual a kneejerk defence – of a jerk “reporter”. Vote 15 likes o johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 7:23 pm Well said, JA and Umbongo. If you read the Telegraph’s analysis of what was being said in the report and by the politicians vs how the BBC chose to interpret it, it’s pretty clear the BBC put its own spin on things to some fine tune. Not so much clumsy misinterpretation, more downright misrepresentation to fit an agenda. And that was leaving aside the biased slant of the interviews and time afforded to the two sides of the argument. A lesson in good journalism from the Telegraph today for those grubby, arrogant, socialist hacks at the BBC. Vote 9 likes 14. johnnythefish says: October 20, 2013 at 3:42 pm Funny how the Defenders of The Indefensible have flocked here today, as though primed to expect something. In all their left wing, economically-illiterate glory they prove with their unequivocal support of everything BBC that it truly has a leftist bias. LLDD (Lefty Logic Deficit Disorder) – a sadly incurable disease. Vote 11 likes + Stewart says: October 20, 2013 at 4:08 pm I think it simply that multiculturalism is one of the most sacred constructs of their pseudo-religion , to question immigration and especially the BBC’s reporting of it , is to attack that. Also it gives them a chance to fling around words like ‘bigot’ and ‘racist’ like chimps with their faeces. Vote 15 likes o Dysgwr_Cymraeg says: October 20, 2013 at 7:55 pm I say old chap, cant have monkey jokes ya know! Vote 6 likes 15. Framer says: October 20, 2013 at 9:07 pm It may not be too late to go out and get a copy of the Sunday Telegraph’s magnificent journalism today, not to mention its editorial on BBC Bias. It has six or seven pages on the report on the 600,000 unemployed (‘economically inactive’) EU migrants and a brutal dissection of Mark Easton’s despicable reporting on the BBC’s 10 O’Clock News. Another subject of investigation is the overly well-paid BBC go-to ‘expert’ on immigration Jonathan Portes. Easton is so overtly and ceaselessly biased always exuding complacency and laziness. Buy it now. I have never its like before. Something must be happening out there. The unsayable is being said. The BBC must be actually worrying about its charter renewal. The campaign must be for a licence reduction to £100 and an end to their destruction of the local and national press with their news websites. Vote 7 likes + Guest Who says: October 21, 2013 at 8:23 am “The campaign must be for a licence reduction to £100 ” — While there is much to applaud in what you write, this seems… ‘modest’… in ambition, possibly? Such a level will serve only to enable senior management to sustain all that is wrong with the status quo but provide excuses to cut services, such as they are, on the back of continued compelled funding no matter what. Vote 1 likes 16. Dave s says: October 21, 2013 at 10:48 am It has probably already been said but needs reiterating. If any area of a once homogenous nation ceases to be lived in by the indigenous inhabitants in a majority it becomes something other than an integral part of that nation. Maybe better maybe worse but it becomes different. Such a situation is fast approaching in London. A city state in the making with is losing contact with the shires. In my small shire town there are very many people of all ages who have never been to London and have no desire to go. No historical precedent anywhere gives cause for optimism . Human nature is unchanging and we have every reason to be wary. Liberal fantasists who wish the world to be as they desire have played a dangerous game with an ancient nation. Vote 3 likes 17. Philip says: October 21, 2013 at 5:44 pm In that TELEGRAPH (19/10/13) article we learn that the BBC (and Guradian) were paid to endorse the EU Commisioners report on immigration. How odd is that ? The EU report costing 71 million pounds (for just 276 pages), will allow more freedom for migrants to visit the UK as a planned EU legal challenge). ‘The analysis was written by two private consultancies and published last week by the office of Laszlo Andor, the European Commissioner in charge of employment and social affairs. Mr Andor, a socialist, is bringing a legal action through the European Court of Justice against the Government for allegedly discriminating against EU migrants over their rights to claim social security benefits.’ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10391164/The-EU-the-consultants-the -report-on-benefit-tourists-and-71m-in-fees.html *The Telegraph reported that the NHS of non-active EU migrants is estimated at (just) £1.5 billion. i.e. BBC costs 3Bn a year. As of March 2011 the UK national debt for every household was £1900 per year just to pay off debt interest, (the full debt burden on every single person in the UK was £14,814 each and increasing). Now in October 2013: We owe £19,135* for every man, woman and child in the country (or more than £42,322 for every person in employment). That is already over 900 billion of debt that we can never pay off. The benefit system of EU ‘rights’ will cripple the country and the BBC is involved in yet more EU propaganda playing down any concern about more EU regulation ‘rights-for all’ to come to the UK unhindered until collapse. *http://www.debtbombshell.com/ Yet the BBC always pushes for more integration, no matter what the cost, no matter what the debt to push for the shangri-la socialist republic of Europe when the BBC already has condemned Russia as right wing (gay rights). Was it not Trotsky that said that the western economies must fail to bring about their new communist utopia. Are we there yet, surely we are by now? 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Uncategorized USA politics US economy US News US politics US presidential elections Biased BBC | Mantra Theme by Cryout Creations | Powered by WordPress. * follow: follow: * RSS RSS [2.gif] [5.gif] [5.gif] [5.gif] [4.gif] [3.gif] [0.gif] [8.gif] Send to Email Address ____________________ Your Name ____________________ Your Email Address ____________________ loading Send Email Cancel Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Email check failed, please try again Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. #RSS 2.0 RSS .92 Atom 0.3 Liberal Conspiracy » Ed Miliband: ‘We didn’t get immigration right’ Comments Feed “F*cking get out of here” – BNPers intimidating people How politics always under-estimates support for left-wing views Liberal Conspiracy Twitter Facebook LC by Email By RSS ____________________ Go! Liberal Conspiracy ABOUT CONTACT CONTRIBUTE FAQs ARCHIVES Ed Miliband: ‘We didn’t get immigration right’ by Sunny Hundal 8:15 am - March 6th 2013 Tweet IFRAME: //www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?href=http://liberalconspiracy.org/2 013/03/06/ed-miliband-we-didnt-get-immigration-right-in-government/&sen d=false&layout=button_count&width=150&show_faces=false&action=recommend &colorscheme=light&font=arial&height=21&appId=135787006459018 Share on Tumblr IFRAME: http://www.youtube.com/embed/vDELSPXMwIY The Labour party is to air a party political broadcast (above) tonight dedicated solely to tackling the thorny issue of immigration. The PPB will precede a speech tomorrow by the shadow home secetary Yvette Cooper, who will give a speech with more specifics on what a Labour party would go on immigration if in government. Miliband will talk about how Britain’s diversity is a source of our great strength as a country, but that migration needs to work for all and not just for some. In the broadcast, Ed Miliband will say: - Labour were wrong in the past to dismiss people’s concerns about immigration; - Low-skill migration is too high and we need to bring it down; - One Nation Labour would make English-language teaching a priority. In the broadcast, Ed Miliband says: I’m going to tell people what I believe. And I believe that diversity is good for Britain. But it’s got to be made to work for all and not just for some. And that means everybody taking responsibility, everybody playing their part and contributing to the country. That is what One Nation is all about, and that’s the Britain I want to build. The Party Political Broadcast will air on Wednesday night in England only, on BBC2 (17:55), ITV1 (18:25) and BBC1 (18:55). Tweet Share on Tumblr submit to reddit About the author Sunny Hundal is editor of LC. Also: on Twitter, at Pickled Politics and Guardian CIF. · Other posts by Sunny Hundal IFRAME: http://platform.twitter.com/widgets/follow_button.html?show_screen_name =false&show_count=true&screen_name=sunny_hundal Story Filed Under: Immigration ,News Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time. Reader comments 8:34 am, March 6, 2013 1. cjcj Racist! 8:51 am, March 6, 2013 2. BenM @1 Framing immigration the way tabloids do is racist. 8:55 am, March 6, 2013 3. Cylux Under One Nation, how will we deal with those recalcitrants who choose to speak another language other than English? 8:58 am, March 6, 2013 4. Chris Unbelievable. Instead of fighting racism and giving those who hate racism a party to vote for, Labour is going to to try to split the bigot vote. Milliband is an utter disaster. 9:12 am, March 6, 2013 5. Jack C It’s a step in the right direction, but a little short on detail surely? There was one reference to “proper management”, but only as an aside. What matters is ensuring that we have the infrastructure to cope with planned immigration levels, and this is where the Labour government failed so badly. I’d like to hear more about the mechanics and less fluff about diversity. 9:28 am, March 6, 2013 6. Jack C Chris, The point surely is that better management would lead to lower levels of resentment, thus lower levels of racism. It’s the difference between practical action in pursuit of a stated aim, and simply saying “look at me, ain’t I wonderful”. Most people are NOT racists, so you may be a little less special than you think. The broadcast is a little dog-whistly, it has to be said, but only a little. 9:31 am, March 6, 2013 7. Tim J I’m going to tell people what I believe. And I believe… I hate this verbal tic so much. “I’ll tell you what I think. I think…”; “What I say is this, I say…”. Drives me round the bend. 9:35 am, March 6, 2013 8. Chris @Jack C “The point surely is that better management would lead to lower levels of resentment, thus lower levels of racism.” This could not be further from the truth. Racism is not justified and making out that you are managing your way to lower levels of resentment is accepting the entirely fabricated case put forward by racists. It’s striking in Britain that the areas where people are most likely to say that they have ‘concerns’ about immigration are those in which there are the fewest immigrants, even using the ridiculous language which defines Europeans who have moved house as ‘immigrants’. Free movement of labour in the EU has helped bolster our economy and has also created marvellous opportunities for British people to live and work in other EU countries. There is no case against except on motivated purely by racism. Incidentally, Labour’s belief that it has to pander to racists to get working class votes demonstrates graphically how little understanding Labour has for the British working class. Labour thinks working class people are bigots. 9:37 am, March 6, 2013 9. Chris Naden Chris @4: Labour already has a considerable and entrenched bigot vote. Mrs. Duffy was a Labour supporter. This is why the Sun and the Daily Mail agree on immigration issues, using them as a dog-whistle for xenophobia and closeted racism. Jack @6: That could only be true if you bought the idea that very high levels of immigration are the reason for the bigotry. Net immigration could be negative and we’d still here calls for less of it. 9:37 am, March 6, 2013 10. Chris Naden /gah/ here = hear. D’oh. 9:43 am, March 6, 2013 11. damon Weasel words and spin from the Labour party as usual. None of the main political parties in Britain can do much better. Is he saying that there are a lot of people now living in the UK who were allowed to migrate here, who should really have been kept out? Who exactly is he talking about, or are we just meant to make our own guesses as to who these people might be? The African population mushroomed from quite little to what it is today in a couple of decades. Does he mean them? All the people from Nigeria and places like Ghana? They wern’t asylum seekers so they obviously got permission another way. On what grounds I’ve never been quite sure. Or does he mean all the overseas spouses from the Indian subcontinent? Those numbers were about 17,000 a year the last time I checked. Quite a lot. Anyway, I know the answer – Ed will say nothing of the sort, as the whole issue is one of management and spin. It can’t really be any other way really. 9:49 am, March 6, 2013 12. DtP From Ed ‘And that means everybody taking responsibility, everybody playing their part and contributing to the country. That is what One Nation is all about, and that’s the Britain I want to build.’ I’m not completely sure that means anything at all – it’s just filler. I don’t think everybody’s responsible for migration – sure, make your neighbours feel welcome, say hello and stuff, maybe wander over with a bottle of vino or tell them where the local tip is but other than that, i’ve got no part to play. What an odd thing to say. Is this Baldwin’s work? If so, it’s not very structured. 9:57 am, March 6, 2013 13. Jack C Chris & Chris N: I don’t presume to know what lies behind every individual bigot’s bigotry, and nor do I think it can be immediately eradicated. My point is that you can disagree with recent immigration levels without being a bigot. We know that Labour managed it badly because they under-estimated the figures badly. This led to pressures on infrastructure. It was incompetence, and that had side-effects. Had immigration being managed properly there would have been fewer associated problems. 10:08 am, March 6, 2013 14. Bob B Half of the ethnic minorities in Britain live in London, where only 45pc of the resident population is now white British. How come then those recent press reports saying schools in London have dramatically improved over the last decade and are now out-performing schools in other parts of the country? “In 1997, just 16% of its students got five GCSES at grades A-C, the league table measure then. Last year, 71% passed at least 5 GCSES at grades A*-C including English and Maths.” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21534863 “London schools have improved so rapidly over the past 10 years that even children in the city’s poorest neighbourhoods can expect to do better than the average pupil living outside the capital.” [FT 13 January 2013] 10:12 am, March 6, 2013 15. cjcj Those kids will be well behaved and motivated. Those London results bode reasonably well for the future. 10:18 am, March 6, 2013 16. Freeman “We didn’t get immigration right in government” You can say that again. Immigration, both Labour and the Conservatives has been terrible. There is nothing wrong with other countries nationals coming here. They bring skills and labour, but this HAS to be subject to a few criteria. Firstly, they have to have a job in the bag already. Secondly, there has to be a need for their skills here. If we have an over supply of nurse techs, then we don’t need more coming in. Thirdly, you can’t receive benefits until you are a UK resident (3 years I think) and have been working during that time. There is simply no justification for paying out to people who are not residents and who have made no contribution to the UK. 10:27 am, March 6, 2013 17. Bob B A recap from the BBC website in May 2011: The number of low-skilled workers born outside the UK more than doubled between 2002 and 2011, according to the Office for National Statistics. The figures show that almost 20% of low-skilled jobs are held by workers born abroad, up from 9% in 2002. Workers coming to the UK from eastern or central European countries were the biggest single factor in the rise. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13561094 10:31 am, March 6, 2013 18. Renie Anjeh The comments on this page, especially from @9 and @1, is a clear example of why the Labour Party needs to expand its voting base. Talking about immigration management is not racist, discriminating against people because of their race is racist. I remember doorknocking in Tottenham, Ilford, Corby and also Eltham. The people who have been concerned about immigration, where far from racist in fact they were very nice but concerned about jobs, wages, living standards, housing and the pressure about public services and the effect that high immigration was having on these things. Instead of calling everyone under the Sun a ‘racist’ or a ‘bigot’, address their concerns and look at the effects that some immigration is having on those concerns. Ed Miliband is spot on. 10:35 am, March 6, 2013 19. Justin If people want an honest debate they’ll stop using the word ‘immigration’ and start using the word ‘foreigners’. This is all about placating the imaginary fears of the ignorant. People don’t like foreigners and the major parties need their votes. Miliband and Cameron should admit they can’t be Prime Minister without pandering to arseholes. 10:53 am, March 6, 2013 20. Bob B Xenophobia isn’t entirely a matter of irrational prejudices – it’s a matter of expectations, language nuances and trust: As Fukuyama wrote: “people who do not trust one another will end up cooperating only under a system of formal rules and regulations, which have to be negotiated, agreed to, litigated and enforced, sometimes by coercive means. . . .Widespread distrust in a society . . . imposes a kind of tax on all forms of economic activity, a tax that high-trust societies do not have to pay.” from Francis Fukuyama: Trust; (1995) p27. It tends to get overlooked nowadays that Disraeli – PM in 1868 and 1874-80 – was the grandson of immigrants to Britain. As he wrote in his novel Tancred in 1847: London is a modern Babylon. 10:54 am, March 6, 2013 21. Cylux The number of low-skilled workers born outside the UK more than doubled between 2002 and 2011, according to the Office for National Statistics. The figures show that almost 20% of low-skilled jobs are held by workers born abroad, up from 9% in 2002. As an aside, it is not exactly uncommon now to advertise for vacancies for common low-skilled labour jobs, which will be situated in the UK, in Eastern European countries. Eastern European applicants also have less hurdles to clear in the application process too. This is presumably because you can pay them less and exploit them easier, since they might not be all that well informed on their rights as workers within the UK. @13 I don’t presume to know what lies behind every individual bigot’s bigotry, and nor do I think it can be immediately eradicated. This, basically. Who here thinks Gillian Duffy was purely motivated by a knee-jerk dislike of funny smelling sausages appearing in the local market, and not say worried that her Grandchild’s quality of life was going to eroded by immigrants being shipped in and exploited for cheap labour and thus pricing everyone with dependants in the UK out of the jobs market? We’re told that we need immigration because we have an aging population, meanwhile our youth unemployment continues to rise. Surely if the problem that immigration solves is too many retirees to workers, then you would expect to see youth unemployment falling, no? 11:03 am, March 6, 2013 22. Jack C 19: “This is all about placating the imaginary fears of the ignorant. People don’t like foreigners” And another one. All this says is: “I’m better than most people, because I don’t discriminate.” Can you see the irony? By the way, there has not yet been a defence of Labour’s management of immigration when in government. Why is that? 11:07 am, March 6, 2013 23. cjcj Eastern Europeans working here may be in low-skilled jobs, but most of them are very clearly not “low-skilled” as individuals. It’s just that our low-skilled jobs pay better than many of their higher skilled ones. So the bottom 10-20% of our workforce is competing (well, it’s no competition really) with people who are far better educated and motivated. Whom, as an employer, would you prefer? 11:28 am, March 6, 2013 24. DtP I despise poor people, I think they’re a blight upon our society and fully approve of importing highly skilled, efficient, cheap labour so that poor Brits can face a life on benefits, in transient low grade housing, churning out kids for a life of crime with no education, no opportunities and just drink & smoke themselves into an early grave. I’ll definately vote Labour, they’re great. 11:55 am, March 6, 2013 25. GO *sigh* In any other area, we on the left are the first to point to the negative consequences of allowing free markets to decide everything, and to defend a role for government in regulating or shaping markets (e.g. in labour and housing), in planning the provision of public services, etc. Yet when it comes to immigration, anyone who rejects a rabidly libertarian position according to which employers should be allowed to employ any*one* they like, any*where* they like, on any *terms* they like (including housing them in slums and paying poverty wages) – with all the implications that has for driving down wages, increasing pressure on public services, etc. – is condemned as a racist by the likes of Chris @ 4 and @ 8. On the evidence so far, Labour deserve credit for trying to shift the terms of the debate on immigration by focusing on workers’ rights, low pay, training etc. rather than race/religion. 11:56 am, March 6, 2013 26. Paul Bob B @ 14: “Half of the ethnic minorities in Britain live in London, where only 45pc of the resident population is now white British. How come then those recent press reports saying schools in London have dramatically improved over the last decade and are now out-performing schools in other parts of the country?” I acceopt it’s a rhetorical question, Bob, but I answered it here http://thoughcowardsflinch.com/2013/01/18/immigration-education-and-pro sperity-building-on-the-london-success-story/; basically, immigration has been great for London. 12:13 pm, March 6, 2013 27. Raging Leftie Too little too late. 12:22 pm, March 6, 2013 28. Bob B In the news: “BEIJING—China is losing its competitive edge as a low-cost manufacturing base, new data suggest, with makers of everything from handbags to shirts to basic electronic components relocating to cheaper locales like Southeast Asia.” http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014241278873237837045782452417519697 74.html Germany has retained manufacturing for longer than other west European countries so we should ask: how come? Part of the answer is not just a matter of comparative unit labour costs or the structure and prevailing sentiments of financial markets and institutions. Germany has a competitive advantage is certain kinds of specialist machines – like printing machinery, some machine tools, bottle-labelling machines etc. My concern is that the “short-termism” of financial markets will be used as a scapegoating factor to divert attention from other issues affecting competitive edge. Design, quality and skill shortages affect competitive edge, not just unit labour costs. British companies used to design and build nuclear power stations but now we are hoping a French company (EDF) will invest to build Britain’s next nuclear power station when successive governments since WW2 poured multi-millions of taxpayers’ money into pioneering nuclear power. OTOH Britain maintains a competitive edge in designing and building grand prix racing cars. Among Britain’s more successful big industries are pharmaceuticals and defense equipment – both of which are highly regulated and both depend very largely on sales to government agencies, which doesn’t say much for all that stuff about deregulation and the stifling effect of government bureaucracy, to mention other favoured scapegoats. With the reports in the mid 1990s of the losses accumulated by Credit Lyonnais in France – the biggest bank there and state owned – I think we need to be a bit more sceptical about creating a public sector investment bank. 12:29 pm, March 6, 2013 29. Jimmy Any chance David’s still available? 12:50 pm, March 6, 2013 30. Jack C @25: Well said GO. A cynic might think that Chris and his ilk have questionable motives. Perhaps: a) They’re not really concerned about racism, they just want to advertise their own saintliness. b) Burnishing their own self-image is more important to them than the concerns of others. I hope not. 1:08 pm, March 6, 2013 31. Clemente My comment is more of an advice on a productive perspective to current immigration state of our great Britain. This will require further research to establish this advice: The level of illegal immigrants can be observed to be of great benefit to the country. There are various routes of attracting best hands (skilled/talented people)by UKBA such as the talent route, tier 1 general etc; this signifies that the country really need foreign skilled professionals. The government needs to ascertain and screen the illegal migrants because some of these migrants are quality skilled professionals the country require for its economy advancement. Thank you. 1:16 pm, March 6, 2013 32. Pal Joey The liberal European imperialists of the EU have got the working class chasing their tails in pursuit of ever lower wages and ever more meagre welfare. This is the neo-liberal wet dream in practise. Labour should never have signed up to an EU that did not guarantee full employment and a standard minimum living wage across the piece. Mass economic migration and its attendant miseries and injustices (buying workers off the shelf never having had to pay for their education or training from countries that can ill afford to lose them) is a feature of late, decadent, capitalism. It would not be a feature of socialism. Labour should pledge to renegotiate the founding treaties of the EU in accordance with socialist principles not the current neo-liberal ones that are turning european workers into itinerants and forcing privatisation of everything. 1:26 pm, March 6, 2013 33. hobson @32. Pal Joey Why on earth would Labour want to re-negotiate EU treaties in line with Socialist principles? 1:53 pm, March 6, 2013 34. GO @ 30 “A cynic might think that Chris and his ilk have questionable motives.” …just as Chris cynically assumes that anyone who talks about controlling immigration must secretly be motivated by racism. I reject both flavours of cynicism. I reckon Ed Miliband really is concerned about the exploitation of migrant workers and about the negative consequences for workers in general, and for society as a whole, of a thriving market in cheap imported labour. And I reckon Chris really is worried about racism being dressed up as ‘legitimate concerns’, and justifiably so given the history of debate over immigration in this country. I would just say to Chris: if you think these supposedly legitimate concerns are just a smokescreen for racism, don’t just call your opponents names – debunk their concerns. 1:53 pm, March 6, 2013 35. Renie Anjeh @32 – That is completely unrealistic. Firstly, the EU has done so much on the working time directive, the social chapter and many of our employers’ rights. Secondly, how on earth will the renegotiation on EU treaties in accordance to socialist principles happen – it won’t, not even Francois Hollande would support it. Thirdly, if Labour wants to try and make reform in relation to the EU then it must pledge to revisit the free movement of labour directive. Although, the Free Movement is a good idea in principle, in practice there are problems because the poorest countries in the EU lose a lot of the skilled workforce for wealthier countries and that is not fair. That also relates to the problem of immigration management. Labour should call for a minimum level of GDP before a country can use the free movement of labour. 2:20 pm, March 6, 2013 36. GO Anecdotal evidence alert. I’m one of those people living in an area with a large immigrant population who doesn’t personally feel terribly concerned about immigration. But I did find myself a bit lost for words some years ago when a friend told me how all the workers at her stepdad’s firm – they were bus drivers, I think – had been sacked and replaced by cheaper Polish workers. Maybe I could have come back with some figures about the net benefit of immigration to the economy as a whole, but that wouldn’t have changed the fact that her stepdad had been left out of work because of an influx of cheap migrant labour. Now, the problem there was not evil foreigners. It was a lack of workers’ rights/labour market regulation leading to the distortion of the market by immigrant labour. That’s just the sort of problem the Left ought to be addressing, and we can’t run scared of these issues for fear of being called racists. Again, I applaud Ed Miliband for trying to frame the debate in these terms. 3:24 pm, March 6, 2013 37. damon I had lunch at this church support centre for ”marginalized and socially excluded people” in Camborne in west Cornwall last week. I’ve been travelling about visiting these kinds of places just to see what they’re like. Anyway, in general conversation with some of the unemployed and homeless or hostel living people there, I asked about local work. It was daffodil time I was told, a big industry locally it seems …. but that ”was all Lithuanians and Polish nowadays.” They wont take on locals as they prefer the foreign labour. How true that is I have no idea. Maybe it’s just an excuse to mask their reason for being unemployed and eating free food at a church charity. I was told that after work time down at the big Tesco in town, I’d see ”loads of them” all getting some shopping after a day in the fields. It’s a hard job apparently. Lots of bending down working the rows of flowers all day. Migrant labour has had a dramatic affect on communities that used to do this kind of work seasonally. Too much work for minimal pay. The foreigners move in and out of these kinds of areas as the different harvests and seasons roll around. 4:02 pm, March 6, 2013 38. GO …just on this point about cynically ascribing racist motives to people who talk about controlling immigration: I suppose I’m inclined to do this myself when it’s a right-winger doing so. But that’s because there’s no principled free-market case to be made against the free movement of workers within a lightly-regulated international labour market. There’s no free-market objection to employers seeking a competitive advantage by hiring foreign workers to pick fruit for £4.00 an hour; or to local landlords profiting from a surge in demand by asking higher prices for poorer-quality housing. Hence I can’t think of any reason *other* than xenophobia/racism for a right-winger to worry about immigration. 4:47 pm, March 6, 2013 39. Jack C Small “c” conservatism would be one reason, though this isn’t restricted to the “right”. 6:26 pm, March 6, 2013 40. Richard W Anyone could be excused for thinking there was some sort of nationality bar on UK workers crossing the channel to seek work elsewhere. You know that single market thingy does not just work one way. Of course, that would mean getting off their backside, quitting whining and blaming other people. Obviously too much to ask because their chosen job should just appear at the end of their street. Much easier to blame foreigners than look in the mirror. We get all the myths about migrant workers because that is the way people rationalise being out-competed. It is much easier to believe migrant workers have some huge advantages than accept the truth of their own inadequacies. We constantly hear from some quarters about low pay for UK workers (not true). Pay should be higher(good) because low paid workers have valuable skills that deserve higher compensation (questionable). We can just wish it into being because that would be fair. The abstract concept of fairness usually defined by the person making the case. Well if pay is so low and skills are so high then obtaining higher wages elsewhere in the single market should not be a problem. Germany, Denmark, The Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden and Austria are all in the single market and not part of the troubled EZ periphery. Could it be some people are not as valuable as we are led to believe. UK businesses do not want migrant workers because they are cheaper, they want them because they are better. However, there are few votes for politicians telling the truth. 7:50 pm, March 6, 2013 41. Shatterface The way to stop immigrant labour ‘driving down wages’ is to raise and enforce the national minimum wage. Police employers before borders. 8:02 pm, March 6, 2013 42. Shatterface Anyone could be excused for thinking there was some sort of nationality bar on UK workers crossing the channel to seek work elsewhere. You know that single market thingy does not just work one way. Of course, that would mean getting off their backside, quitting whining and blaming other people. Ah, yes, the Norman Tebbit/Marcus Brigstock argument: immigration is good because the British working class are lazy cunts. 8:16 pm, March 6, 2013 43. GO @ 41 Shatterface As I understand it, that is just the direction Miliband is trying to take the debate in. Enforcement of the minimum wage is certainly one of the things Labour are talking about. So is legislation on gangmasters. I believe one of the policy proposals is precisely to ‘police’ employers by making non-payment of the minimum wage an issue for the police rather than just the HMRC. 8:28 pm, March 6, 2013 44. Chris I’m a member of the Labour Party and I disagree with everything Ed Miliband is saying. Immigration policy was one of the few things Labour actually got right from 1997-2010. 8:42 pm, March 6, 2013 45. Richard W @ 42. Shatterface Ah, yes, the single market where people do not actually move. They find absolutely nothing wrong with German cars moving across borders to their local dealership, but people moving is beyond comprehension. If people remaining statically frozen in time to the one place forever makes no sense internally, it makes no sense externally when the EU is a single market. How absurd would it sound if we tried to stop internal migration by preventing people in Birmingham moving to Manchester for work. Weird lines that we drew on maps during the 20th century does not make the attitude any more coherent. If restrictive county borders would be absurd so are national borders. 10:06 pm, March 6, 2013 46. Bob B For an alternative perspective, try this submission on the economic impact of immigration by Robert Rowthorn, professor emeritus of economics in Cambridge University, to the HoL Select Committee on Economic Affairs, session 2009/10: This submission examines these claims. It concludes that the economic consequences of large-scale immigration are mostly minor, negative or transient, that the interests of more vulnerable sections of the domestic population may well be damaged, and that any economic benefits are unlikely to bear comparison with its substantial impact on population growth. Such findings are in line with those from other developed countries. Although it does not benefit the UK population as a whole, large-scale immigration does benefit migrants, their families and sometimes their countries of origin. It can be argued that UK migration policy should take the interests of these other parties. This issue is not addressed in the present submission. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeconaf/82/ 7100902.htm 10:13 pm, March 6, 2013 47. GO @ Chris “I’m a member of the Labour Party and I disagree with everything Ed Miliband is saying.” May I suggest that you read this in order to get an idea of the sort of policy approach Labour seem to be talking about: http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/mar/05/labour-crackdown-employers-ex ploiting-migrants Something has gone desperately wrong if avowedly left-wing anti-racists end up attacking the Labour party for pursuing an immigration policy based around preventing the exploitation of foreign workers. Can’t you just agree to disagree that such exploitation sometimes has negative knock-on effects (e.g. downward pressure on other workers’ wages), and get behind the proposals themselves? “make it illegal for employers to provide unsuitable and unreasonable accommodation, including cramming migrants into small units, by making it explicit in the national minimum wage regulations” “tougher enforcement of minimum wage legislation by using the police rather than HMRC” “extend the gangmasters legislation that tackles the employment of illegal migrants by extending it to other sectors including care, construction and hospitality” 11:12 pm, March 6, 2013 48. Bob B This from the BBC website is saying that Britain’s migration figures may be little more than informed guesswork and goes on to present what data there is on annual inward and outward migration and the balance. FWIW I don’t believe that electoral sentiment has no concerns about the economic and social pressures flowing from the contribution to population growth from annual net inward migration of around 200,000 people: The population of England and Wales has risen by 3.7 million in a decade – the largest increase since records began The growth was fuelled by increased life expectancy, a rise in fertility rates and immigration http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646459 For starters, it is widely recognised that there is a chronic shortage of social housing. 11:42 pm, March 6, 2013 49. Bob B This is one of the social consequences of population growth pressures in London: Something quite remarkable happened in London in the first decade of the new millennium. The number of white British people in the capital fell by 620,000 – equivalent to the entire population of Glasgow moving out. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904 Selling a house or apartment in London can bring the wherewithal to buy a better place in another urban area away from London or in the country so the pressures on housing are transferred and homes to buy elsewhere become less available for local people. 8:40 am, March 7, 2013 50. cjcj The British working class are not all “lazy cunts” though there are plenty of examples. But, to repeat myself, the reason that the Poles etc. are better is that those who come here do not come from the bottom 10-20% of the Polish workforce. 8:46 am, March 7, 2013 51. GO @ Chris again Chris Bryant was just on BBC Breakfast, and made two specific comments about Labour’s time in office: - the ‘points system’ to control low-skilled non-EU immigration was a good thing, but should have been introduced earlier - it was right to apply transitional controls on migration from Eastern Europe from 2007 onwards, but again, that should have been done earlier I wonder what you make of that as someone who thinks the last Labour government got it right on immigration? Surely if these are policies you approve of, you agree that ideally they should have been introduced earlier; while if these are policies you disapprove of, you can’t maintain that the last Labour government got everything right on immigration? Yvette Cooper, meanwhile, is pointing to the perverse outcomes that come from a simple-minded ‘crackdown’ on net migration: “Legitimate university students are included in the target even though they bring billions into Britain – and those are being squeezed. “Yet student visitor visas aren’t included – and growing abuse in that category is being ignored…The Borders Inspector has already warned this route is open to abuse for those who are coming not to study but for low-skilled work instead” That’s about right, isn’t it: a positive defence of the contribution made by genuine migrant students, together with a warning about possible abuse of a loophole? Put all that together with the policy proposals I mentioned above: “make it illegal for employers to provide unsuitable and unreasonable accommodation, including cramming migrants into small units, by making it explicit in the national minimum wage regulations” “tougher enforcement of minimum wage legislation by using the police rather than HMRC” “extend the gangmasters legislation that tackles the employment of illegal migrants by extending it to other sectors including care, construction and hospitality” - and I struggle to see just what there is to object to (so far) in terms of the policies Labour are coming forward with. We’re moving the debate in the right direction here – towards an understanding that immigration per se is not a problem, but immigration driven by an exploitative market in low-skilled labour is. 9:11 am, March 7, 2013 52. Justin @22 ‘And another one. All this says is: “I’m better than most people, because I don’t discriminate.”’ Couldn’t agree more. People who don’t discriminate are better than those who do. 10:07 am, March 7, 2013 53. Tim J People who don’t discriminate are better than those who do. Paradoxically, this is itself an act of discrimination, meaning that if you espouse it you automatically classify yourself in the latter category. 11:17 am, March 7, 2013 54. GO I just posted this link on the ‘benefits tourism’ thread, but some of it’s relevant to this discussion too: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/06/uk-benefits-eu-migr ants-what-crisis?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487 Again, a neat demonstration that a broadly positive attitude to immigration, and a robust debunking of negative myths, is perfectly consistent with the recognition of areas in which policy might be improved. 11:35 am, March 7, 2013 55. Helen Aside from a minority of entrenched racists, arguing about immigration is code for insecurities about jobs and housing. There is no doubt that London and the South east are overcrowded, with immigrants both from abroad and the the rest of the UK. This is because, thanks to govt subsidies of billions of pounds (bailouts, QE and HMRC sanctioned tax evasion/avoidance) the finance industries which form 9% of the economy and their support are the only source of employment. What we need is not “affordable” housing, ie that which gets sold to landlords and rented out at exorbitant rates, but social housing, council housing, call it what you will. And we need hundreds of thousands of them in the S.East alone. But there’s nowhere to build without wrecking the transport, water and social infrastructure. So how about having a govt that talked less about “immigrants”, most of whom come from the EU and cannot be legally prevented, and started re-balancing the economy towards the other 99% of the employment economy who are largely based outside the South east. That might ease the pressure on the South east, maybe move substantial parts of govt out of london too. Immigration is not the problem, Governmental cowardice over housing and the financial industries is 11:40 am, March 7, 2013 56. davebones I’m going to tell people what I believe. And I believe this is the funniest Party Political Broadcast I have seen for years. Since “Are you thinking what we’re thinking?” Obviously Ed is apologising to those people who were thinking that who were being accused of racism by Labour supporters at the time. My Sikh friend and I (Oim not racialist!) were across the floor laughing. 37. Damon- You don’t know if the fruit/veg picking has been taken over by foreigners? I saw a documentary about it on TV years ago. By that guy with the strange eyes who was downstairs at the Dragons Den. Before then Couriers who used to earn 500 quid a week were priced out by foreign people doing the same job for 250. It was worth it to them they could even send money back home! I would do it if I were them. And what about the building industry? Where have you been? We were laughing a lot when we saw this last night. Especially the camera which is trying to escape from being focused on Ed’s face. It goes one way, then the other… fantastic. Personally it doesn’t bother me. The more the merrier. Nothin I dislike more in the UK than towns full of Inglish people. I don’t like Tony Blair but his vision of multi racial Ingland is the same as mine. I think all these Inglish might start changing their minds when all these Romanian babes turn up too. They are smokin! Polish chicks have the blonde down but these Romanians have dark and dusky to a T! And the racist Poles who come here are shaking the soft locals up for not being militant enough against people of colour! This country is great. It is really funny. And what about British property hunters pricing locals out of their houses in Bulgaria? and mid France? and Spain? Its enough to make you racialist. Anyway, nuff from me- You have been involved in what I believe you call “Identity Politics” for a long time, what do you think about this broadcast Sunny? 12:03 pm, March 7, 2013 57. Chaise Guevara @ 53 Tim J “Paradoxically, this is itself an act of discrimination, meaning that if you espouse it you automatically classify yourself in the latter category.” Specious. From context it’s clear we’re talking about discrimination on grounds of race/religion/nationality, i.e. prejudice, which is different from judging individuals based on their actions and views even if both can be described with the same term. 8:24 pm, March 7, 2013 58. Bob B “The dilemma posed by immigration is that it actually benefits the most privileged in our society, while those who fear they will lose out – and are sometimes right – are people at the bottom.” There is a fairly well-known academic paper, often cited in the economics literature, by Donald MacDougall on: “The Benefits and Costs of Private Investment from Abroad – a theoretical approach” (Economic Record 1960). This is available online but with a pay-barrier. The paper applies impeccably orthodox neoclassic economic theory to model inward investment and concludes that, assuming unchanged terms of trade, inward investment will tend to depress the returns to capital on existing investments while improving the earnings of the other primary factors of production: labour and land. Much the same theoretical model can be adapted to analyse net inflows of labour leading to symmetrical conclusions: the net inflow of labour will tend to depress the earnings of labour while improving the earnings of the other primary factors: capital and land. Donald MacDougall took over from Sir Alec Cairncross as chief economic adviser in HM Treasury for 1969-73: in other words, he was one of Ed Balls’s predecessors. Successive British governments have sought to attract inward investment. MacDougall’s paper is presumably known to Ed Balls, Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband, all of whom have degrees in economics. 5:24 am, March 8, 2013 59. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells Labour were wrong in the past to dismiss people’s concerns about immigration; What? They passed five separate acts on the matter, how the fuck is that ‘dismissing people’ – allowing the terminally stupid to live in their bizarre little simulacrum won’t do them any good in the long term. They need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the reality of a globalized market, the sooner they adjust and compete the better for all. Low-skill migration is too high and we need to bring it down Migration can’t be ‘too high’ anymore than the supply of Playstations or Toyotas can be ‘too high’, as has been proven time and time again unless you’re a consistent communist and believe the allocation of labour should be centrally planned (which would mean you would also stop people from leaving, try putting that in an EDM and see what happens) then there isn’t a whole lot the state can do about the free movement of said factor of production. @40 All that. 6:48 am, March 8, 2013 60. Dislecksick Personal Musings: Reasons I like Immigration Freedom for all Cheaper when I want to clean my car I can go elsewhere and work if I want to – 2 way street Better choice of girlfriend – have only dated E European since 2004! Far, far better choice of partner, not taken over by feminist entitlement complexes, drinks less, screws around less, and accepts you for what you are, a man, without making you guilty for it, and new rules make the “she wants a greencard” racist argument redundant. Reasons against Immigration Hundred of unemployed Somalians making a council house the impossible dream. Gangs of predatory pedo’s targetting young white girls in care homes. 3rd World immigration purely happened to create political shift towards Labour – there was no economic argument to importing illiterate unskilled workers. Losing cultural identity. I am British, and I fear when I am an old man, we will be a small minority in the Islamic Republic of great Britain. I have no problem with European peoples coming here as they share our values broadly. Why on earth we invited the 3rd world over here I have no idea. The EE’s are broadly respectful and assimilate well, whereas it seems to me the others just leech the system and look for ways to exploit our youth, our generosity and just basically shaft us in every way possible. Yes, this may make me a racist, but it’s what I see every day. I would argue it’s not, because it’s a culture which gives people their values, not skin colour, but even so probably by modern definition that still makes me a racist That’s OK because that word ceases to have any meaning or effect on me any more. 7:56 am, March 8, 2013 61. Jack C @59: “Migration can’t be ‘too high’” Of course it can, and this is the crux of the matter. Just think about it: 1) Zero nett immigration would have zero impact on infrastructure, schools, hospitals, housing etc. 2) Nett immigration of 2 million per month over the next year would be calamitous. 3) Therefore, somewhere above zero, nett immigration becomes “too high”. Labour wildly under-estimated immigration from EE, causing pressures and failures in the system. It was shocking bad planning, and they’re right to reflect on that (assuming they are). 8:44 am, March 8, 2013 62. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells No, it can’t, you’re confusing my positive statement with your normative statement. The supply of foreign labour is no different to the supply of foreign goods and capital – all are subject to the irrefutable law of supply and demand, if you can discredit that law I and the entirety of those working in economics would be extremely interested to read your work. It can be higher than you’d like it to be, but it cannot, as a positive statement of fact, be too high in the medium to long run, it is literally impossible. Incidentally your first claim about ‘zero migration’ is nonsense, this ‘ceteris paribus of the madhouse’ is indeed the crux of the matter. 9:25 am, March 8, 2013 63. Jack C You’re missing the point. Take as just one example, the administration of immigration. Because nett immigration was significantly under-estimated, the authorities were under-resourced and unable to process applications in a timely manner, or at all (as a result we’ve had to have more than one amnesty). In practical terms, nett immigration was “too high” for the system to cope. If there is a gap between the number of immigrants arriving, and the number of immigrants that can be comfortably absorbed, difficulties will arise. Oh, and my claim about “zero nett immigration” is not nonsense, it’s self-evident fact. Schools, hospitals, etc do not need to plan for an increase of zero. This is not to say that “zero nett immigration” is a good thing. You can see that surely? 10:37 am, March 8, 2013 64. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells There is no point to miss, you’re making a value laden claim and presenting it as a positive statement with no evidence to back it up. In short your unsubstantiated opinion does not represent a point. Ironically of course you’re claiming a failure of central planning – that the state simply cannot compete with the dynamism of the market; the circular logic of which appears to be lost on you. Oh and your claim about “zero nett immigration” is nonsense. Even given “zero nett immigration” there remain a myriad of factors to be accounted for, natural population growth, internal migrations, fluctuations in the business cycle affecting tax revenue, deficit spending or lack thereof – all other things do not remain equal out of kindly convenience to the fantasy world in your head. And net is spelled with one t. 10:50 am, March 8, 2013 65. Jack C I don’t think I can simplify it any further (oh, and both “nett” and “net” are valid, though the former used to be the convention). I am indeed claiming a failure of central planning, I’m not sure why you think it’s ironic. It is a fact that Labour significantly under-estimated immigration from Eastern Europe. That’s mismanagement. And on the zero question, why are you bringing in irrelevancies? It’s this simple: School A needs to plan ahead based on projected pupil numbers. If there is no increase or decrease as a result of immigration, then the school will not be affected by immigration. Simple really. Yes, numbers will be affected by other things, but they’re not relevant. 9:59 pm, March 9, 2013 66. Just Visiting anyone who cares about having evidence based views on immigration, should read the BBC link in Bob B’s post 48. It’s scarey that in thid big data/internet driven world, that the numbers the govt depends on are based on such flimsy methods. 1:20 pm, March 11, 2013 67. jungle DisgustedofTunbridgeWells: “What? They passed five separate acts on the matter,” Good point. Indeed they did. They took the anti-migration thing very seriously, actually, and made a lot of noise about it. Predictably, however, the tabloids continued to shout “open door policy” repetitively (and always will, by the way) and so naturally people who trust the tabloids believe Labour did have such a policy. Labour seem to be admitting to having a policy that it is easily provable they never had. This is surely very unwise, even if focus groups and polls suggest apologies are in order. It may result in the Party being held responsible wholesale for the presence of unpopular ethnic minorities in the UK. Apologising for the shambolic mess that immigration related departments got themselves into (in no small part because of endlessly changing dictats from Labour politicians trying to sound tough) would be a different matter. I don’t agree with the libertarians on here that migration should be left to the free market, though. If it were (to Africa and Asia in particular) we would have rather serious problems. There would be a very intense and rapid process of free-market-driven wage levelling between Lagos, Shenzhen and Birmingham, which would, for example, create vast shanty town slums on any available wasteland or flood plain… 2:21 pm, March 13, 2013 68. DisgustedOfTunbridgeWells I don’t think I can simplify it any further (oh, and both “nett” and “net” are valid, though the former used to be the convention). There is nothing to simplify, in the worlds of Wolfgang Pauli you’re not even wrong. It’s just nonsense built atop more nonsense. If I see Dickens I’ll be sure to let him know you’re keeping the tradition alive. I am indeed claiming a failure of central planning, I’m not sure why you think it’s ironic. It is a fact that Labour significantly under-estimated immigration from Eastern Europe. Lets put aside the fact you’ve failed to provide any evidence for this ‘significant under estimation’. What is your answer to this alleged ‘failure’ of central planning? Yet more central planning; in addition to the raft of legislation (including the much vaunted points system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points-based_immigration_system_(United_Ki ngdom) ) that according to you and just about everyone else obsessed with this stuff, has all failed. That’s mismanagement. It is not the state’s business to manage the ebb and flow of the market, unless it happens to be a communist state. The state can’t ‘mismanage’ the flow of factors any more than I can ‘mismanage’ Goldman Sachs balance sheet. School A needs to plan ahead based on projected pupil numbers. If there is no increase or decrease as a result of immigration, then the school will not be affected by immigration. Simple really. Yes, numbers will be affected by other things, but they’re not relevant. Hold on a minute, because you’ve accepted my argument there haven’t you, let us revisit your original claim. Zero nett immigration would have zero impact on infrastructure, schools, hospitals, housing etc. So you’ve gone from ‘zero impact’ which I told you was the ceteris paribus of the loony bin to, ostensibly ‘not affected as a result of net migration’ (a situation that of course, can never occur). Incidentally the ONS disagrees that internal flows are ‘not relevant’ because they spend their time projecting exactly that. A statistical release on school capacity was published on 9 January 2012 (OSR01/2012) and included local authorities’ own forecasts of future pupil numbers, based on local level information, such as inter-authority migration of pupils. http://www.education.gov.uk/researchandstatistics/datasets/a00201305/pu pil-projections-future-trends-in-pupil-number-dec2011 You should probably tell them they’re wasting their time. Fwiw, immigrants use far fewer public services than they actually pay for – http://www.ccsr.ac.uk/research/mrpd/research/EvidenceMyths.html#seven 11:07 pm, March 25, 2013 69. Mattyboy-1965 Ed Miliband: ‘We didn’t get immigration right’ No shit Sherlock?!!?? Reactions: Twitter, blogs Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time. 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Quantcast #RSS 2.0 RSS .92 Atom 0.3 Liberal Conspiracy » How the Daily Mail twisted housing statistics to blame immigrants yesterday Comments Feed Seven ways to stop the NHS bursting at the seams How one troll went from abuse to apology in minutes Liberal Conspiracy Twitter Facebook LC by Email By RSS ____________________ Go! Liberal Conspiracy ABOUT CONTACT CONTRIBUTE FAQs ARCHIVES How the Daily Mail twisted housing statistics to blame immigrants yesterday by Owen Tudor 8:53 am - July 29th 2013 Tweet IFRAME: //www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?href=http://liberalconspiracy.org/2 013/07/29/how-the-daily-mail-twisted-housing-statistics-to-blame-immigr ants-yesterday/&send=false&layout=button_count&width=150&show_faces=fal se&action=recommend&colorscheme=light&font=arial&height=21&appId=135787 006459018 Share on Tumblr The Daily Mail have managed again to combine two of their obsessions, migration and housing. In a highly misleading article last week that suggests migrants are preventing existing residents from getting social or council housing. Luckily the Financial Times has journalists who know how numbers work and don’t trade in scare stories – I am indebted to @StatsJournalist Kate Allen for alerting me to the data behind Steve Doughty’s nasty little piece. The claim is that nearly 500,000 council homes (the article clarifies in the text that this includes all social housing) have been allocated (“given” is the term inaccurately used) to “immigrants” (although as Kate Allen points out, the data relates to people born abroad, which stretches from Boris Johnson to many children of armed services personnel) in the past decade. The real story about housing and migration is this. People born outside the UK are much more likely to live in rented accommodation than people born here, because they are poorer. Of those living in rented accommodation, most people born abroad are in the less beneficial private rented sector. And what we need to ease the waiting lists for social housing isn’t less immigration, it’s more social housing – we need to build more homes people can afford. The Mail doesn’t point out that seven times as many people born in the UK live in social housing as those born outside, nor that the predominant form of housing tenure for those born in the UK (33 million to 15 million) is home ownership (among those born abroad, the ratio is 3 million to 4 million – they mostly rent.) One reason why people born outside the UK are more likely to be in social housing than people born here is because they’re poorer, and that’s why they concentrate in the least advantageous forms of housing. There are ten times as many native-born homeowners than foreign-born, eight times as many social renting natives, and just over twice as many native-born as foreign-born private tenants. It’s also worth noting that the more recent the arrival, the more likely foreign-born people are to be private tenants. two thirds of those who arrived before 1981 own their homes (surprisingly similar to the domestic population), but nearly two thirds of those who have arrived since 2001 are private tenants. One in seven recent arrivals are in social housing, compared with one in six of the native born (again, exactly the same proportion for those who arrived before 1981). Not surprisingly, the longer people live in the UK, the more they behave just like those born here. However, in one of those ironies of right-wing populist politics that gets people at the Mail chewing the carpet, part of the crackdown on immigration that the coalition Government is presiding over – by making private landlords less likely to rent to migrants – will force more recent arrivals into homelessness, thus triggering the requirement on local authorities to provide them with social housing. So a direct result of the Government crackdown on immigration will be an increase in the proportion of social housing going to migrants! Tweet Share on Tumblr submit to reddit About the author Owen Tudor is an occasional contributor to LC. He is head of the TUC’s European Union and International Relations Department and blogs more regularly at the Touchstone blog. · Other posts by Owen Tudor IFRAME: http://platform.twitter.com/widgets/follow_button.html?show_screen_name =false&show_count=true&screen_name=TUCglobal Story Filed Under: Blog ,Housing ,Media Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time. Reader comments 9:57 am, July 29, 2013 1. Man on Clapham Omnibus ‘The claim is that nearly 500,000 council homes (the article clarifies in the text that this includes all social housing) have been allocated (“given” is the term inaccurately used) to “immigrants” (although as Kate Allen points out, the data relates to people born abroad, which stretches from Boris Johnson to many children of armed services personnel) in the past decade’ So whats the true number of immigrants? 10:38 am, July 29, 2013 2. Ceiliog 1. For the wrong answer, go to the Daily Mail. 10:45 am, July 29, 2013 3. Tris The figures might also reflect the fact that in many countries, including EU ones, the norm is to rent rather than buy housing. Or it may be that many immigrants are young, and like many native born young, are unable to get a foot on the “housing ladder” because of the absurd cost of even the cheapest homes in some parts of the country. But you can never stop the Daily Fail twisting whatever information they have in order to satisfy the burning hatred in the hearts of their pursed lipped, tutting readership of vinegary old women and bitter old men. 11:58 am, July 29, 2013 4. hobson I always thought someone who was born in one country and moved to make their home in another country *was* an immigrant, even if their name was Boris – isn’t that the definition of an immigrant? Thanks for exposing the Daily Mail’s story but having read your piece I’m still not clear on what the true figure is. How many immigrants have actually been allocated social housing in the past 10 years if it’s not 470,000 as the Mail claims? 12:02 pm, July 29, 2013 5. vimothy There isn’t really an argument in this piece. Social housing is “allocated” not “given”. –This is hair splitting. The two terms are synonyms. “Allocation” sounds more technical and less personal, so people might be less likely to object to the “allocation” of social housing to immigrants, which is presumably why the OP prefers it. The numbers refer to people born outside the UK rather than immigrants per se. –Okay, but people born outside the UK are a proxy. What are the true numbers? People born outside the UK are poorer in general than people born inside the UK. –Hence more likely to require social housing, consistent with the Daily Mail’s article. 12:45 pm, July 29, 2013 6. Ceiliog 4. Have you read the Daily Mail article and the comments that are posted? The DM’s definition of social housing includes houses that are let by private landlords. As ever, the Daiy Mail knows how to rile their drooling, gagging, xeonophobic readers. 12:58 pm, July 29, 2013 7. hobson 6 The Mail article specifies “council or housing association properties”. No, I have not read the comments beneath it and have no intention of doing so. I’ve never found the comments section on Daily Mail articles about immigration to be very informative. Surely the question here is whether it makes sense to provide social housing to immigrants? In my opinion, housing should be provided according to need. It should not make any difference whether a person was born in the UK or overseas (in other words, whether they are an immigrant). There may be a case for saying British citizens should take priority, but that is only tangentially related to whether someone is an immigrant. Plenty of British citizens are immigrants. There is a difficulty in trying to deny that immigrants receive social housing, which is that you are tacitly accepting that there would be something wrong with it if they were. Furthermore, you will also be stating something that is untrue. If you and I both apply for a council house and I am a British citizen who came to this country eight years ago while you are a British citizen born here, the fact that I am an immigrant will not, as I understand it, affect my application. And neither should it – it would be a scandal if it did. But when people try to insist that it doesn’t happen, or attack people for stating that it doesn’t happen, they’re actually reinforcing the idea that it’s somehow shameful or wrong to treat people equally. 1:19 pm, July 29, 2013 8. Ceiliog 7. As shown by the photo of a house rented at £7,800 per month. Typical bile from the DM and its commentards. 1:48 pm, July 29, 2013 9. hobson 8 That is a photo illustrating a different story. Yes, they are both on the same web page which is confusing. 2:01 pm, July 29, 2013 10. vimothy Hobson, Good comment. It’s a puzzle as to why pro-immigration arguments aren’t more coherent. My take is this: The political establishment wants to have high levels of immigration, for both ideological (diversity, anti-racism, etc) and economic reasons. Although the establishment understands that immigration ticks two magical boxes, it is also aware that many working and lower middle class types don’t have advanced degrees in economics, and don’t realise that high levels of immigration is both morally good and economically beneficial for society as a whole. It’s like they don’t even know what Pareto efficiency is! If only they read the FT and not the Daily Mail. The problem with that is that for historical reasons, Daily Mail readers and assorted other reprobates are still allowed a vote, if little representation. So the most judicious course is obviously to avoid bringing it to their attention. The less they think about it, the less they will misguidedly try to reduce it, the better everyone will be in reality — including the thickos who don’t understand that this is in their best interests. Okay, fine. So why aren’t the arguments better? Because they don’t care about winning the arguments. From their point of view, Daily Mail readers are xenophobic louts who can’t be reasoned with. Therefore, the goal is to stop having arguments with them. Therefore whatever furthers this end is fair game — including arguments that are mutually contradictory or just hand waving. 2:01 pm, July 29, 2013 11. Ceiliog 9. Deliberate embedding and typical Daily Mail. 2:17 pm, July 29, 2013 12. Ceiliog 10. The article highlights an article, from the Daily Mail, that is misleading. "Okay, fine. So why aren’t the arguments better? Because they don’t care about winning the arguments." Your call for a pro-immigration argument is misplaced as Owen Tudor has not expressed an opinion either way. 2:20 pm, July 29, 2013 13. jungle Massive flaw in the Daily Mail’s use of this data (which the article has not noticed): The data referring to half a million recent migrants in council housing is about PEOPLE, not HOUSEHOLDS. Unless we assume migrants all live alone, this is *not* the number of houses they occupy. It is also *not* even roughly comparable with waiting lists (a comparison the Mail encourages), which only include the ‘head of household’. I’d also hazard a guess that quite a lot of these migrants live in council houses where the ‘head of household’ isn’t a migrant. I don’t dispute that there are downsides to immigration, and that a real ‘open door policy’ (which we haven’t had, by the way) would be pretty catastrophic… but as usual the Mail’s figures are yet again distorted to favour their agenda and cannot be trusted. 3:09 pm, July 29, 2013 14. Man on Clapham Omnibus 10. vimothy It’s like they don’t even know what Pareto efficiency is! Maybe the Mail is after Pareto improvement. Anyway I dont buy the immigration thing myself because what you are tacitly saying is a fixed population cannot organise its resources and wealth to the benifit of all without drawing in members of other communities. Its a limp left postulate that is entirely false and if extrapolated would mean the worlds population would all end up on the Isle of Wight which I suggest isnt a good idea. I think it far better to understand why immigration is happening and IMO its because of the need for cheaper and cheaper labour so the rich can get richer and richer. 5:00 pm, July 29, 2013 15. vimothy Your call for a pro-immigration argument is misplaced as Owen Tudor has not expressed an opinion either way. What Owen Tudor wrote doesn’t address the matter of whether large numbers of immigrants are getting social housing or are preventing Britons from accessing social housing. Instead he quibbles over some of the facts, while leaving the substantive issues off the table. So we are told that: 1, The correct term is “allocated” rather than “given,” seemingly because the optics / connotations are more better. 2, The numbers refer to people born outside the UK rather than immigrants per se, and British people can be born outside the UK, e.g., Boris Johnson. 3, Of course immigrants occupy a lot of social housing. They tend to be poorer on average. (Presumably that’s what lead them to migrate in the first place.) But you want to either say that the Daily Mail is exaggerating the numbers in order to make this seem like a much bigger problem than it is in reality, because the people who write the Daily Mail are all deranged bigots who hate immigrants. Or you want to say that the numbers are more or less correct, but the reason that the numbers are the way they are is because immigrants are typically poorer than the rest of the population. Make both at the same time, and it’s a bit like saying, “He was like this when I got here, officer. And anyway, even if he wasn’t, I didn’t kill him. And anyway, even if I did, it was in self-defence.” Well, which is it? You should pick your strongest story and stick to that. 5:01 pm, July 29, 2013 16. vimothy “Are more better”? Yeesh… 5:32 pm, July 29, 2013 17. Ceiliog 15. "Instead he quibbles over some of the facts" Facts that are, of course, not a strong point at the Daily Mail. See comment #13. 11:45 am, July 30, 2013 18. John Lloyd So the solution is just to throw money at immigrants. Balls and co are so discredited with their idea to spend spend spend out of recession, now the plan is to just go on a house building spree to give homes to benefit tourists. Will the TUC never learn their day has gone? 4:32 pm, July 30, 2013 19. phil 6 “The DM’s definition of social housing includes houses that are let by private landlords” Your comments are just as disingenuous, if not more, than anything the Mail wrote, rather like the needless hair splitting between “given” and “allocated”. Fact is that at a time when millions of British people are on social housing lists hundreds of thousand of immigrants are given social housing. 4:45 pm, July 30, 2013 20. Ceiliog 19. Read comment #13. Stating that my short posting is more disengenuous than a DM article on social housing, which includes a house that is rented at £7,800 per month, says quite a lot about you. 2:50 pm, July 31, 2013 21. Derek Hattons Tailor @15 “don’t realise that high levels of immigration is both morally good and economically beneficial for society as a whole”. Lots of countries (Switzerland, Japan, Sweden) have had highly successful social and economic models with little or no immigration. Europe had a (much) higher share of global GDP in the 1970s, when migration was far lower. In the uk specifically, real wages have barely moved since the 1970s. I’m an accountant rather than an economist, but you don’t need to be either to realise that the larger the labour pool, the lower than wages. If there are any economic benefits they are clearly not widely shared. It also depends which “society as a whole” you are looking at. If migration is good for the economy of the host country then by definition it is bad for the economy of the home country (e.g Ireland, Southern Europe). 9:15 am, August 1, 2013 22. Briar I am sure the Mail and its loyal readers will now attack Kate Allen for being so biased as to look at the actual figures and read the actual truth written in them. After all, they accused Chris Patten and the rest of the BBC Trust for being biased lefties because they criticised John Humphrys and his hit-piece on people on benefits for recycling Mail lies and not backing them with actual facts (presumably because the facts prove the opposite). 2:57 pm, August 1, 2013 23. phil 19 If you can’t understand that the house that rents at £7,800 a month is not social housing but privately rented to an immigrant on housing benefit then that says a lot about you. It would seem that you also have difficulty grasping the fact that at a time when millions of British people are on social housing lists hundreds of thousand of immigrants are given social housing. 2:59 pm, August 1, 2013 24. phil 22 “they accused Chris Patten and the rest of the BBC Trust for being biased lefties” Simply google “bbc admits bias” 3:31 pm, August 1, 2013 25. Ceiliog 23. You fail to grasp the fact that the Daily Mail misinterpreted statistics on housing. Do you think that anyone who was born outside of the UK should not be allowed to rent somewhere to live? 5:12 pm, August 4, 2013 26. phil 25. The fact is that it is you misinterpreting the statistics. As the Mail clearly states, there are 1.8 million British families on social housing waiting lists and 469,843 immigrants have taken social housing housing between 2001 and 2011. These are government statistics. Where is the Daily Mail misinterpretation? 5:35 pm, August 4, 2013 27. Ceiliog 26. Daily Mail misinformation is available every day except Sunday when it is replaced by Mail on Sunday misinformation. 10:08 am, August 5, 2013 28. phil 27. That is merely your opinion. The fact is, as the Mail reported, there are 1.8 million British families on social housing waiting lists and 469,843 immigrants have taken social housing housing between 2001 and 2011. Just because you may not like these facts it doesn’t mean the Mail is guilty of misinformation. 10:26 am, August 5, 2013 29. Ceiliog 28. It is a fact that the Daily Mail twisted housing statistics to blame immigrants. The Daily Mail doesn’t normally raise concerns about people who live in council, housing association and private landlord properties but, in this case, they have made an exception because it pushes the immigration button. The Daily Mail doesn’t give a damn about people who are in social housing. 8:06 am, August 6, 2013 30. phil 29. You keep saying the Mail twisted housing statistics, fair enough, now kindly tell me which housing statistics they twisted? It’s patently true that 1.8 million British families on social housing waiting lists and 469,843 immigrants have taken social housing housing, so how is that twisted. It would appear that the Mail gives a damn about the 1.8 million British families languishing on social housing queues whilst 469,843 foreign born immigrants are given social housing. 8:18 am, August 6, 2013 31. phil 6 “The DM’s definition of social housing includes houses that are let by private landlords” Even this comment of yours has been proved as twisted, the article clearly stated that an immigrant was benefitting from £7,800 monthly to pay a private landlord yet you twisted it to claim that the Mail was referring to social housing. Tell me, where on earth is there social housing in the UK that rents at £7,800 monthly? 9:55 am, August 6, 2013 32. Ceiliog 30. 31. No. The Daily Mail published the article because it hits the immigration button. The embedded story about an asylum seeker is there to distort matters even further. 10:53 pm, August 6, 2013 33. phil 32. Nothing wrong with hitting the immigration button, immigration control has been lax to say the least since 2001, it’s about time it was hit. The “embedded” story about the so called “asylum seeker” receiving an astonishing £7800 a month while 1.8 million British families languish on the housing list is a true and untwisted story. To pay in excess of £90,000 p.a. to house a family is plainly ridiculous. 12:16 pm, August 7, 2013 34. Ceiliog 33. What is the difference between an asylum seeker and a ‘so-called asylum seeker’? He’s either an asylum seeker or isn’t an asylum seeker. Asylum seekers do not qualify for social housing so they are not permitted to place their names on housing lists. If the asylum seeker is having his rent paid, the money goes to the landlord. Please take up the matter with the Daily Mail as I’m sure that you’ll prefer their answers. The Daily Mail is far more creative than the average estate agent when it comes to property descriptions – An East London, 1920s, end of terrace, 2 up 2 down, with a crappy dormer bedroom becomes a luxury townhouse at the hands of a DM hack. In fact, Phil, stick with the "Fail" and don’t visit any other websites. 10:40 pm, August 7, 2013 35. phil 33. The difference between an asylum seeker and an “asylum seeker” is that one is genuine and the other is bogus. If he is bogus then he isn’t an asylum seeker, he is an economic opportunist posing as an “asylum seeker”, cashing in to the tune of £7,800 monthly. I’m quite happy with your answers, we have established that the Mail was correct that 1.8 million British families are on social housing waiting lists and 469,843 immigrants have taken social housing housing and that one immigrant family was receiving an astonishing £7,800 monthly for his house rent. Reactions: Twitter, blogs Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time. [trans.gif] LATEST NEWS Media doesn’t realise how right-wing Britons think Cameron is News Image 35 Comments The funniest questions Twitter asked of British Gas boss today News Image 48 Comments Listen: Tommy Robinson a “great admirer” of Douglas Murray News Image 21 Comments Britons more likely to support a party committed to public ownership News Image 49 Comments Labour to ambush Tories on their links to energy lobbyists News Image 4 Comments Even Mail readers think it should be sorry for Miliband piece News Image 14 Comments Mail reporter gatecrashed Miliband memorial News Image 27 Comments A ten point plan to strengthen workers’ rights in the UK News Image 16 Comments ED Miliband: Labour will SCRAP the Bedroom Tax News Image 34 Comments Watch: UKIP’s Godfrey Bloom hits Michael Crick in the face News Image 65 Comments Astonishing graphic: how English house prices have shot up News Image 36 Comments Labour moves much closer to repealing Bedroom Tax News Image 17 Comments Watch: presenter mistakes paper stack for iPad News Image 1 Comment Remember when Lib Dems opposed Free School Meals? 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Quantcast #RSS 2.0 RSS .92 Atom 0.3 Liberal Conspiracy » Green leader criticises “toxic rhetoric” on immigration Comments Feed Labour to push harder on financial regulation Liam Byrne actually makes a good speech on disability Liberal Conspiracy Twitter Facebook LC by Email By RSS ____________________ Go! Liberal Conspiracy ABOUT CONTACT CONTRIBUTE FAQs ARCHIVES Green leader criticises “toxic rhetoric” on immigration by Newswire 1:52 pm - July 13th 2013 Tweet IFRAME: //www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?href=http://liberalconspiracy.org/2 013/07/13/green-leader-challenges-toxic-rhetoric-on-immigration/&send=f alse&layout=button_count&width=150&show_faces=false&action=recommend&co lorscheme=light&font=arial&height=21&appId=135787006459018 Share on Tumblr On Friday 12th July Natalie Bennett, Green Party leader, gave a key note speech on immigration where she attacked the political “race to the bottom” on immigration. While the government said immigrants were attracted to Britain by benefits, “there is simply no evidence for this claim,” she said. She said it was common currency to blame migrants for problems in schools, the health service and housing, to distract from “Britain’s long-term failure to build adequate housing, particularly social housing” The speech was given at the International Symposium on Cultural Diplomacy at the Romanian Cultural Institute. The Green party leader attacked the “race to the bottom” on immigration. The government was scapegoating immigrants instead of acknowledging its own failings and that of the former Labour government. “It’s pernicious, it’s dangerous, and it needs to be challenged.” While many in the political class are currently falling over themselves to out UKIP, UKIP Bennett argued we need to be articulating the benefits of immigration. it’s important to acknowledge the contribution of immigrants to Britain. The NHS could not operate without immigrant workers. Our social care system, and our education system are significantly dependent on immigrant workers. … But of course their contribution isn’t only through employment, whether they are young or old. The grandmother who moves to Britain to be with her family – she might be providing childcare, or she might simply be providing the solidity, the knowledge, the experience of a lifetime. The partner who moves to Britain to be a “house husband” brings not only time and love, but also the cultural experience of a different life experience. The foreign student brings to their local course a whole host of different experiences, knowledge and skills to their local classmates, to the enrichment of all. The full text of the speech can be found here. Tweet Share on Tumblr submit to reddit About the author · Other posts by Newswire IFRAME: http://platform.twitter.com/widgets/follow_button.html?show_screen_name =false&show_count=true&screen_name=libcon Story Filed Under: Immigration ,News Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time. Reader comments 3:37 pm, July 13, 2013 1. vimothy The NHS could not operate without immigrant workers. An obvious falsehood. Our social care system, and our education system are significantly dependent on immigrant workers. I’m not sure what is meant by “significantly dependent,” but let’s assume that in order to facilitate social care and education, net migration to the UK is positive for all future time periods. Then it follows as a matter of simple mathematics that the native population of the UK will be completely replaced by the migrant population. Perhaps this is a good thing, as far as Natalie Bennett is concerned? I doubt that many people would agree, though. But of course their contribution isn’t only through employment, whether they are young or old. The grandmother who moves to Britain to be with her family – she might be providing childcare, or she might simply be providing the solidity, the knowledge, the experience of a lifetime… [etc] Translation: migrants who migrate are people; as people they have had experiences; these experiences influence who they are as people; therefore, immigration is always a good. Hooray! 4:16 pm, July 13, 2013 2. Benali The NHS could not indeed survive without the NHS. Migrants routinely fill shortfalls in several key sectors (none more so than care staff and nurses), and without those places the NHS could not survive. With an increasingly larger older population and the demand for more elderly care this problem is going to only get worse. Then again these are all facts that the UKIP mentality finds hard to swallow. 4:26 pm, July 13, 2013 3. Paul peter Smith Its quite bizarre that a ‘green’ would promote migration on any kind of scale. Most of the problems addressed by that faction have as their root cause some aspect of globalisation. Surely a true green would be promoting sustainable development within nations i.e. Serious limits on the international trade of manufactured goods would force nations to be self sufficient and encourage local markets. 4:35 pm, July 13, 2013 4. Dissident Vimothy, Do you have the brains or backbone of a flatworm? Because the people who have your stated outlook in real life do. The billionaire bribe masters behind such obvious poison are laughing at you all the way to the offshore tax haven with our liquidated wealth, while you blame others who commit the heinous crime of wanting a better life for themselves and their families. Hooray for you too Btw, if those billionaire bribe masters weren’t such odious scroungers worldwide, there would be less people needing to migrate for a chance of a decent life in the first place. Not that you would ever acknowledge that simple fact. 5:16 pm, July 13, 2013 5. vimothy Dissident, I’m not sure what simple fact you refer to. However, our “billionaire bribe masters” do not, as a rule, agree with me–alas. If they did, we’d certainly have a lot less immigration. Our billionaire bribe masters generally agree with you (assuming that you believe immigration to be the summum bonum). That’s why we have so much of it. Otherwise, our billionaire bribe masters are not really worthy of the name, are they? For example, here’s Peter Sutherland, UN rep for migration arguing that EU states should do their best to undermine national homogeneity in order to make themselves more welcoming to migrants: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395 He also suggests that trying to limit migration is contra international law. In addition to his role at the UN, Sutherland is a chairman at LSE, a member of the Bilderburg steering group, a chairman at Goldman Sachs, former head of the WTO and a former chairman at BP. That’s a very incomplete list, though. You can find out more about the life and times of one of our billionaire bribe masters at his Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sutherland 5:27 pm, July 13, 2013 6. Dissident @ Paul Peter Smith The flip side of such migration are entire forests regrowing in Eastern Europe! As for global trade, yes definitely manufacture as much of the goods we need locally. It is slightly daft to have say a bog standard cupboard built in China, shipped thousands of miles in a container only to open it and find its broken due to said journey. The company I work for has had about a hundred million pounds worth of losses over the past decade due to that little niggle. 6:40 pm, July 13, 2013 7. the a&e charge nurse I agree that such attacks do indeed ‘distract from “Britain’s long-term failure to build adequate housing, particularly social housing” But since there is no realistic possibility that this need will ever be met (especially following right to buy 30 odd years ago) surely it can only mean more, and more people from the lower strata in a perpetual fight to avoid the least worst housing option? According to Shelter there are nearly 1.8 million households in England on local authority housing registers but many waiting on housing lists for years and years still have little prospect of a decent home each time their application is trumped by another family deemed more in need. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwMe4YBcE0o 8:14 pm, July 13, 2013 8. Ceiliog 3. Are you suggesting that a member of the British Green Party, addressing a symposium on cultural diplomacy, should have made an anti migration speech? 8:59 pm, July 13, 2013 9. Paul peter Smith No Ceiliog I was pointing out the strangeness (to me) that someone who should be promoting local and regional solutions to poverty and access to opportunity, would effectively promote migration. The reasons people flee poverty to wealthier climes are many of the same issues organisations like the greens rightly take on. If the greens are consistent with their core message then they should be opposing the brain drain from under-developed countries and pushing programs that mean an engineer, doctor or candlestick maker can earn a good living almost anywhere. 9:24 pm, July 13, 2013 10. Ceiliog 8. The speech was about the British Government’s rhetoric being at odds with reality. I’m sure that Ms Bennett is a supporter of sustainable development, localism, green energy solutions and other socio-economic issues but you need to bear in mind that the speech was on one topic. 5. That’s why MI5′s flat pack furniture empire collapsed and why there will be no new episodes of Spooks! 9:44 pm, July 13, 2013 11. Paul peter Smith Ceiliog I read the speech in its entirety and agree with much of the sentiment there in. My puzzlement arose from the contradiction of supporting ( in general terms ) the human asset stripping of the third world ( economic migration ) by a representative of an organization defined by localism. Regardless of the audience or subject an argument needs internal consistency. 10:34 pm, July 13, 2013 12. Ceiliog 10. ICD Conference Details. http://www.culturaldiplomacy.org/academy/index.php?en_2013-iscd-uk_time table Natalie Bennett’s lecture and discussion slot took up 30 minutes. 10:46 pm, July 13, 2013 13. Paul peter Smith Thanks for the link Ceiliog, I will give it more attention tommorrow. But I stand by my opinion. 12:34 am, July 14, 2013 14. Ob Serious limits on the international trade! The billionaire bribe masters! Hahahahahaha. Usual crap from meaningless partys and loons, its never been so funny to witness the dysfunctional destroy them selves hahahahahaa. The sooner the uk has a population of 100 million and the EU control tax budgets and foreign policy, the better! 3:56 am, July 14, 2013 15. Dissident Ob – is that short for obnoxious? Just wondering… Is your Amygdyla hyper stimulated at all, I believe there are some good medications available. The combination of corplormazine and lithium can work wonders I hear. 4:50 am, July 14, 2013 16. Ob Uhuh little dissent the eco warrior. The uk NEEDS to double its population, the UK needs to hand all major control over to the EU, get over it pal, racist little englander. For the amount the EU and immergrants have done for this country, little bstards will always refuse to acknowledge its value. 5:32 am, July 14, 2013 17. Dissident Wow, such a coherent argument there, Ob. Which ‘dissident’ are you on about? My moniker is spelled with a capital ‘D’ – understand the difference? 6:16 am, July 14, 2013 18. Ob What ever you say kid! The sooner we make the transistion to super state the better, for the world finally gets to stop hearing the opinions and suffering the votes of self important little shits. 8:41 am, July 14, 2013 19. Bitethehand UKIP Bennett ????????????????????? 9:29 am, July 14, 2013 20. Earl 15 million Brits living abroad. (Foreign & Commonwealth Office figures) 7.5 million immigrants living here. (government’s own statistics) So for every one immigrant who came in… two Brits went out. Nuff said. 9:38 am, July 14, 2013 21. M15 Yes yes we get it. Immigration is wonderful. Everyone should have some. Except of course for the countries that are losing all their productive workforce. If the NHS is being supported by immigrants, that really says to me that the society cannot effectively produce the necessary skills indigenously. Conversley if they bring in skills they ,by the same logic, are taking away skill from whence they came. The logic is greater population growth will need greater amounts of immigration. Unforunately Ponzi with people is a hiding to nothing. Anyone that dresses up asysmetric population distribution as desirable is insane. But one should imo not forget that this asymetry is driven by the same mechanism as the continuing development of underdevolpment of the third world. Until nation states are allowed to keep the procedes of their national wealth instead of being robbed by multinationals and the political infrastructure thats supports them (eg IMF,World bank etc) then individuals will be left running around the globe looking for personal betterment instead of developing their own communities. 9:39 am, July 14, 2013 22. Bitethehand Yes I’m also surprised that the Green Party is encouraging skilled health workers from the developing worold to come to the UK – to do what? To spend an increasing amount of time caring for those who are obese and alcoholic? Are there not far more pressing health and social care needs to be met in the developing world and shouldn’t the Green Party be encouraging skilled Britons who are finding it difficult getting employment in their own country to volunteer elsewhere in the world where their presence will be of greater value? 12:00 pm, July 14, 2013 23. TONE Natalie Bennett has skewed her argument in favour of immigration by stating (a) that governments could and should have solved the housing shortage (which is undoubtedly exacerbated by immigration) and (b) maintaining that “the NHS could not operate without immigrant workers”, when the NHS’s dependence on immigrant workers is something that could be changed – just as the housing shortage could be rectified. If we can deal with (a), we can deal with (b), particularly when we have a couple of million unemployed people. That said, dealing with (a) and (b) would take time, and meanwhile immigration both exacerbates housing shortages and helps staff the NHS. 12:19 pm, July 14, 2013 24. Dissident @ 19 so imagine if repatriation was enforced worldwide. 15-7.5 million is 7.5 million. The population of London. Be ironic if it happened… @ 20 asymmetric population densities are what we have always had since we started to settle down in agriculturally based communities. The most successful eventually grew into cities – and now, with a population of billions worldwide it will be necessary to start building urban arcologies, unless we want to concrete over even more of the countryside. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcology Whether people would actually want to live in mega skyscrapers over a mile tall is another issue, given our propensity to turn utopian fantasies into dystopian realities! 12:28 pm, July 14, 2013 25. Ceiliog 22. Natalie Bennett, in her lecture at a symposium on cultural diplomacy, highlighted how the current Government is using immigrants as scapegoats. Given that Ms Bennett only had a 30 minutes talk plus discussion slot at the centre, I think that she made an important point. 1:04 pm, July 14, 2013 26. Lamia “The flip side of such migration are entire forests regrowing in Eastern Europe!” That’s great for Eastern Europe. Please let us know how that is to the benefit of a country which is struggling to cope with a booming population while facing an energy capacity crisis. 1:33 pm, July 14, 2013 27. Benali Sustainable migration can only be achieved by ending the trade barriers, corporate stranglehold and subsidies that strangle third world economies. The answer is not to impose barbarically brutal migration policies that split up couples, deport vulnerable asylum seekers & set up immigrants as the scapegoats for society’s ills. A humane migration policy would stop forcing people out of their country of origin, through war, foreign intervention, ecological disaster and ecomomic abuse. It would make conditions in those countries liveable rather than continuing to profit from inequality. Equally it would acknowledge that our wealth, our quality of life, is fundamentally indebted for the ways we’ve taken advantage of third world countries. We have a debt to pay to those that can’t get by in their own countries. I’m proud the Green Party gets this, when no other party does 2:09 pm, July 14, 2013 28. Dissident @ 25 The whole world is facing a booming population. The projections are another 2-4 billion, on top of the current 7 billion by 2050. Unfortunately if we don’t solve the problems of resource depletion and environmental degradation worldwide, that boom will precede a crash back to as little as 2 billion by 2100. What makes you think Britain would or should somehow be exempt? Since the only parts of the globe that are facing a local fall in population also happen to be areas with a moribund economy, like Eastern Europe, shouldn’t the cause of said economic stagnation be dealt with, as others have pointed out? Or do you want this country’s economy to be just as bad, after all if it was, people wouldn’t move here for a better life. Lets imagine if this country’s economy collapses due to the current austerity measures (which benefit only the rich) your options would then be stay or go elsewhere. Which would you choose? As far as infrastructure is concerned, what did the Victorians do? They built it. In an era when the population of this country doubled from 16 to 30 million in the space of 50 years, with technology little better than pickaxes and shovels. We now need to rebuild most of it anyway as it is crumbling away beneath our feet after decades of poor investment and maintenance. Energy security is tougher, yet even there we have many options as you should be aware. Lets not forget, large areas of this country were deliberately depopulated a couple of centuries ago, so a bunch of self proclaimed nobles could indulge in the über important pastimes of ‘gentlemanly’ sports like deer hunting as an example. To say nothing of cramming way too many sheep into country estates, which are keeping much of this country looking like the scenes from quite a few post apocalypse films. 7:57 am, July 15, 2013 29. Ob Lets imagine if this country’s economy collapses due to the current austerity measures (which benefit only the rich) LOL how do they beneift “the rich” then? 12:31 am, July 16, 2013 30. Dissident @ 29 obtuse Here’s an analogy for you – a tapeworm (or flatworm) inhabits your gut. Then it not only evades your immune response, but takes so much from you that you become weak. Your body can only cope with so much, but in the short term it is boom time for the parasites infesting your body. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-01/billionaires-worth-1-9-trillio n-seek-advantage-in-2013.html Lol indeed 1:44 am, July 16, 2013 31. Ob You cant answer how it benefits the rich then, just an analogy and a link stating there are rich people in the world, fuck off and crawl back under your rock you self hating scum. 2:24 am, July 16, 2013 32. Dissident @ 31 obdurate obviously I am too kind to you in your obstructively defined obedience of the scum that rise to the top. How much are you obliged to obstinately troll? And how much are the scum observing you in your obnoxious and all too obvious attempts to be obtuse? 4:06 am, July 16, 2013 33. Ob More bullshit. If you can not explain how the uks austerity measures benefit the rich specifically then do not make the claim that they do. We could Really do without idiots trying to promote class war and Hate in this country, especialy idiots thats give analogys about tap worms in the gut and links to rich people getting richer as economic activity recovers, when simply asked for evidence of their claim. I am sick to death of leftists with big words and zero substance, you literaly think if you type with some style it no longer matters that you are saying nothing, big words were made for big minds with something big to say my freind. 7:56 am, July 16, 2013 34. Paul peter Smith Ob Here’s a quick example of how the financial plan for recovery is a scam. Quantitative Easing was supposed to improve credit flow throughout the economy, instead the banks used the money to speculate on the commodities markets causing huge rises in the price of oil & food. No money ‘ trickled down’, the cost of living went up and the rich got richer. Why do you assume the rest of the shell game is any different? 8:45 am, July 16, 2013 35. Ob Why do you assume the rest of the shell game is any different? Most around here have the economic literacy of a rat and would cut a siblings legs off in the name of equality if they could run faster than them. The world would be a cesspit if they were not pushed out of the way of development. Burn her shes a witch! vs burn her shes rich! Kill him its witchcraft! (no actualy its an invention) vs Ban all cars! Ban trade! Wash with your urine! Its save the planet! Mind set of the stupid & incapable still very much with us. 8:49 am, July 16, 2013 36. Strawman Why is some guy called Ob kicking the fuck out of me? 9:23 am, July 16, 2013 37. Paul peter Smith Ob Is it lonely under your bridge? And by the way, I have the economic literacy of at least a monkey maybe even a chimp on a good day! 9:28 am, July 16, 2013 38. Ob And by the way, I have the economic literacy of at least a monkey maybe even a chimp on a good day! In that case the bad bankers used the money to buy bananas. 9:29 am, July 16, 2013 39. Ob Why is some guy called Ob kicking the fuck out of me? Would you prefer some analogys about tap worms because them rich peoples iz bad dey is! Ban cars! Ban trade! 9:35 am, July 16, 2013 40. Strawman He’s doing it again! It’s damn lucky I have no flesh to bruise. 9:37 am, July 16, 2013 41. Paul peter Smith Ob Check out Oxford English Dictionary – Sarcasm. And then kiss my arse. 9:46 am, July 16, 2013 42. Ob Check out Oxford English Dictionary – Sarcasm. I think it would benefit you more. And then kiss my arse. The “burn the witch” mind has not yet evolved to the point of hygiene, I think I will give that a pass sweety. 11:11 am, July 16, 2013 43. Paul peter Smith Ob I used sarcasm, the lowest form of wit, easily countered with any other kind of wit or a reasoned argument. You respond with sarcasm showing you understand neither wit nor reason. Likewise the invitation to ‘kiss my arse’ was purely metaphorical, do you understand metaphor? 11:32 am, July 16, 2013 44. Ob I used sarcasm, the lowest form of wit, easily countered with any other kind of wit or a reasoned argument. You respond with sarcasm showing you understand neither wit nor reason. I have little time to reason with someone who claims the recovery to be a “scam” because “the banks bought grain” Likewise the invitation to ‘kiss my arse’ was purely metaphorical, do you understand metaphor? Why yes, yes I do, there goes your mental snobbery right out the window so BAN TRADE! IS EVIL!!! SAVE EARTH! WASH IN URINE!!! 11:34 am, July 16, 2013 45. Benali Dear God! Both of you shut up! 11:50 am, July 16, 2013 46. Paul peter Smith Sorry everybody, forgot golden rule – dont feed the trolls. 12:16 pm, July 16, 2013 47. Ob Sorry everybody, forgot golden rule – dont feed the trolls. Or anyone unfortunate enough to live in a poorer country than you, save the earth!!!! Turn their food into fuel so you can drive to tesco and they starve to death!!! Ban trade! 12:56 pm, July 16, 2013 48. Dissident @ Obtuse, various posts 33-47 Your statements there have proven that the last thing you want is substantive arguments. To the rest of us, how about using what I wrote or variants thereof to feed it with every time it tries to obfuscate… 1:00 pm, July 16, 2013 49. Ob Your statements there have proven that the last thing you want is substantive arguments. Your previous statements on this site prove you want to starve countless individuals to death to adress a dysfunctin within your own mind..well done! You arent worth arguing with. Reactions: Twitter, blogs 1. Liberal Conspiracy: Green leader challenges “toxic rhetoric” on immigration | moonblogsfromsyb [...] via Newswire Liberal Conspiracy http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/07/13/green-leader-challenges-tox ic-rhetoric-on-immigration/ [...] Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time. 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Quantcast #Guy Fawkes' blog of parliamentary plots, rumours and conspiracy - RSS GuyNews.tv - RSS Guy Fawkes' blog » James Tobin: Lefty Tax Campaigners Misuse My Name Comments Feed Ed’s Evening With Evil Eric TORY WARS: Madness Continues alternate alternate Guy Fawkes' blog WordPress.com Order Order Media Guido Guy News About Tweets by @GuidoFawkes May 21st, 2013 James Tobin: Lefty Tax Campaigners Misuse My Name A great little nugget in the FT this morning: before he died Professor James Tobin, he of the ill-advised Tobin Tax, accused loony lefty tax campaigners of misrepresenting his ideas: “I have absolutely nothing in common with these anti-globalisation rebels. They’re misusing my name”. The 2001 interview with Der Spiegel makes for very interesting reading: “I appreciate attention to my proposal, but many of the praise comes from the wrong side. Look, I’m an economist and, like most economists, an advocate of free trade. Moreover, I support the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and the World Trade Organization — everything that these movements are attacking. They’re misusing my name… I feel that I’m being misunderstood and that my name has been wrongly co-opted for other people’s priorities. The Tobin tax offers no platform for the reforms that these people are seeking. But what can I do? Their intentions are good, I assume, but the proposals are badly thought out.” For some reason you don’t hear that quote from today’s ‘Robin Hood’ wannabes… * IFRAME: http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?href=http%3A%2F%2Forder-or der.com%2F2013%2F05%2F21%2Fjames-tobin-lefty-tax-campaigners-misuse -my-name%2F&layout=button_count&show_faces=false&action=like&colors cheme=light&height=21&locale=en_US&width=90 * IFRAME: http://platform.twitter.com/widgets/tweet_button.html?url=http%3A%2 F%2Fguyfawk.es%2F10hNKZJ&counturl=http%3A%2F%2Forder-order.com%2F20 13%2F05%2F21%2Fjames-tobin-lefty-tax-campaigners-misuse-my-name%2F& count=horizontal&text=James%20Tobin%3A%20Lefty%20Tax%20Campaigners% 20Misuse%20My%20Name%3A&via=guidofawkes&related=wordpressdotcom * * IFRAME: http://www.reddit.com/static/button/button1.html?width=120&url=http %3A%2F%2Forder-order.com%2F2013%2F05%2F21%2Fjames-tobin-lefty-tax-c ampaigners-misuse-my-name%2F&title=James%20Tobin%3A%20Lefty%20Tax%2 0Campaigners%20Misuse%20My%20Name * Email * Tags: Loony Left, Tax at May 21, 2013 at 12:05 pm [facebook.png] IFRAME: http://platform.twitter.com/widgets/tweet_button.html?url=http://order- order.com/2013/05/21/james-tobin-lefty-tax-campaigners-misuse-my-name/& counturl=http://order-order.com/2013/05/21/james-tobin-lefty-tax-campai gners-misuse-my-name/&count=horizontal&text=James Tobin: Lefty Tax Campaigners Misuse My Name Comments are closed. Older Post Home Newer Post Seen Elsewhere PM Honours His Hair Dresser | Standard The Price of the Things | Iain Martin The Bar is a Limit to the Power of the State | Alex Deane Tories Preparing for Cabinet Reshuffle | Speccie Milibelievers Destroying Labour’s 2015 Chances | Labour Uncut LibDems Spin Mythical Voters with Fiction | BuzzFeed Gove is Right | Nick Wood Hunt Should Resign | Boris Simon Hoggart Obituary | Guardian Gove V Clegg | Ben Brogan Was Cameron’s Help To Buy Photoshoot Fake? | Trending Central [hotbuttons.gif] Guido-hot-button (1) [qotdtext.png] David Blanchflower finally admits… “I was wrong, I hadn’t expected the economy to grow as much as it did last year or for the welcome drop in unemployment.” [EMBED] [comment-of-the-day.png] Mr Nobody says: January 2, 2014 at 2:45 pm Ha! Apparently, the NUT has commisioned a poll and excluding don’t knows, 16% of teachers would vote Tory. 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All Rights Reserved DesignBy counters for myspace Send to Email Address ____________________ Your Name ____________________ Your Email Address ____________________ loading Send Email Cancel Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Email check failed, please try again Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. REFRESH(1800 sec): file://localhost/home/ulianap/Documents/p3/s1/PROJET-MOT-SUR-LE-WEB/PAG ES-ASPIREES/en/ASP_REP_Blogs_forums/16.html Britain's leading Conservative blog for news, comment, analysis and campaigns, edited by Paul Goodman. Conservative Party News ____________________ Search ConservativeHome Newslinks for Monday 6th January 2014 * Newslinks * ToryDiary * Columnists * Comment * MPs ETC * Local Government * Deep End * ThinkTanks * Majority * Left Watch * International * Video Published: November 1, 2013 89 comments Work: Have immigrants “taken our jobs”? Ryan Bourne By Ryan Bourne Follow @RyanCPS Full employent small Full employent small Related Articles * WATCH: Osborne – 2014 is a “year of hard truths” * Osborne tries to define the politics of growth ahead of 2015 * WATCH: Cameron on cracking down on those who migrate for benefits, not for work * Tobias Ellwood MP: Between Little Englanders and Open Doorites, there is room for a rational immigration policy * David Cameron, human shield I BOURNE Ryan BOURNE Ryan mmigration and border controls are going to be a key issue going into next Spring’s EU Parliament elections and any subsequent EU referendum. Ipsos-Mori has found, for example, that “Race Relations/Immigration” is regarded as the third most important issue facing Britain, behind the economy and unemployment. This view will likely be exacerbated in January 2014 with the free movement of Romanians and Bulgarians. After years of suppression of discussion of the subject, debate in this area – particularly with regard to the economic impacts of migration – is welcome, but often heated. In truth, it is an area which can expose divisions within the conservative movement itself, with the classical liberal wing more likely to be relaxed about immigration per se than the socially conservative wing. This column is about jobs and pay. The views of many on this theme tend to be entrenched: either “they’ve taken the jobs” on the one hand or “immigrants boost the economy” on the other – with little public analysis of the nuanced impact, more difficult to explain, that is the reality. But it’s worth setting aside all the social, public service and fiscal concerns to hone in on the question of how immigration in the UK has affected native employment and wages. Between the first quarter of 1997 and the second quarter of 2013, the number of people employed in the UK rose by 3.4 million. Of this total, an additional 988,000 people born in the UK were employed, compared to 2.4 million more foreign-born individuals (just over a million from the EU and the rest born outside). Over that period then, the proportion of people in total UK employment born outside the UK increased from 7.3 per cent in 1997 to 14.8 per cent by 2013 Q2 (shown below). Screen shot 2013-10-31 at 16.05.04 Screen shot 2013-10-31 at 16.05.04 It is extremely intuitive yet wrong, however, to think that the number of jobs created over this period would be the same if there had been no immigration and that, as such, the increase of employment of foreign born workers came at the expense of UK workers. This is known as “the lump of labour fallacy”. In fact, by increasing the supply of labour, which can fill gaps, complement existing skills, or create new markets for other or new products through the demands of the immigrants, immigration could actually increase employment of native workers. Whether it does or not is therefore purely an empirical question, albeit a very difficult one to examine accurately. The result will depend on: 1) The complementarity/substitutability of immigrants to native workers – often dependent on skills. If migrants are complementary, filling job gaps for example, they can actually increase productivity and wages. But if substitutes, they bid down wages and can cause unemployment if native workers are unwilling to accept lower wages. 2) Whether the economy is booming or in recession – i.e. what the overall demand for labour looks like. 3) Whether immigration has significant long-run effects on productivity levels and thus general prosperity. But that’s just the aggregate impacts. Which groups are affected by immigration likewise depends on the skill levels of immigrants, their location decisions and their willingness or otherwise to take jobs “below” their skill range. This all means results tend to be time and place specific, and cannot always be extrapolated to “predict” – which many people want to do today. Due to all of these factors pulling in different directions, then, attempting empirically to measure the impact of immigration is quite problematic. Some studies divide the UK into regions to examine the effects, but simple correlation analysis between immigrant numbers and native jobs in regions as a means of highlighting a relationship can be distorted as a general result if migrants move to areas where demand for labour is particularly strong. Likewise, some studies assume that migrants compete with people of similar skill levels to them. Yet we know that many immigrant workers do not compete with similarly skilled people, but instead work “below” their levels of skills. Nevertheless, the trends in much of the literature which seeks to deal with these problems are clear. Most studies suggest that immigration has had no statistically significant effect on the overall employment or claimant count rate outcomes of UK natives. In many cases the models predict a small negative association, but this is not statistically different from zero. Some, like Cambridge’s Bob Rowthorn, have suggested that this is simply because of noise in the data, and that there is indeed displacement – but the breadth of studies which obtain this broad result is overwhelming. An aggregate impact doesn’t mean a uniform impact, however. In fact, there is evidence that immigration can damage the job prospects of the lowest skilled; that immigration from outside the EU in particular has hit job prospects for natives, and that immigration leads to more displacement of native workers when the economy is below potential. Dustmann, Fabbri and Preston (2005), for example, found that immigration between 1983-2000 harmed the employment prospects of those with O-level qualifications, but boosted those with A-level qualifications or higher. A detailed Migration Advisory Committee report from 2012 found that although overall immigration of working age migrants had no real effect on native employment between 1975 and 2010, non-EU migration in a sub-sample for 1995-2010 did. Their results suggested 100 additional non-EU migrants in that period was associated with a reduction in employment of 23 native workers (although migrants from the EU were found to have no significant impact). This study also found that when the economy was operating below potential, each 100 additional working-age non-EU migrants was associated with 30 fewer native jobs. Screen shot 2013-10-31 at 16.06.49 Screen shot 2013-10-31 at 16.06.49 On wage,s the story is similar. On aggregate most studies suggest little overall effect – some showing a slight average uplift as a result of immigration, some a slight fall. However, the effects along the income distribution can be very different. The chart below, taken from this study, looking at the UK between 1997 and 2005, can explain some of this phenomenon. Screen shot 2013-10-31 at 16.07.40 Screen shot 2013-10-31 at 16.07.40 The predicted line shows where you’d expect immigrants to be in the income distribution, compared to the non-immigrant population, if just judged by their skill levels (immigrants are on average better educated than natives). But the researchers found that many immigrants, probably due to language barriers and the incentives relative to home, were bunched near the bottom of the wage distribution – lower than where their skills suggested they should be. In other words, highly skilled migrants often compete with lower skilled Brits, keeping wages lower than they otherwise would be for that group. This means that while immigration has depressed wages below the 20th percentile, it contributes to wage growth above the 40th percentile. Thus, immigration has boosted average wages by a small amount, but squeezed them slightly for those near the bottom. The results overall, therefore, throw up some inconvenient evidence for those who think immigration has had profound consequences for British jobs and pay. On the jobs front, the evidence suggests little overall effect on unemployment or pay, with negative effects constrained to the particularly low skilled, from non-EU migrants and particularly in times when the economy is struggling. These effects on the low-skilled are not unimportant of course, but the magnitudes of and the circumstance in which the effects arise are nowhere near large enough to suggest restricting immigration would lead to full domestic employment. In reality, skills, welfare reform, and business regulations are likely to be more significant supply-side factors to try to solve. Whether my CPS colleague Fraser Nelson is right that relatively open borders make politicians less likely to address these real underlying issues is a question for another day. There are two final points to consider. First, caution should be used in using existing evidence to inform us of the likely effects of Romanian and Bulgarian immigration, because skill levels and incentives are likely to be different from the immigration we’ve already faced. Second, the immigration issue is clearly not just about employment and pay – but also about social cohesion, identity, the effects on public services and many other factors. This column has merely sought to cast light om direct labour market impacts, where, as conservatives who support markets, we must be more enlightened than assuming a static economy with a fixed number of jobs. Economy Employment immigrants Immigration Migration Migration Watch Unemployment Share this article: Tweet Recent articles Osborne-Headshot3 Osborne-Headshot3 Osborne tries to define the politics of growth ahead of 2015 Published: January 6, 2014 Conservative-UKIP pact Conservative-UKIP pact Toby Young’s Tories Before UKIP plan Published: January 6, 2014 LESLIE Charlotte red LESLIE Charlotte red Charlotte Leslie MP: Why we need a Royal College of Teaching Published: January 6, 2014 SCRUTON Roger SCRUTON Roger Roger Scruton: What do Conservatives believe? 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Website by Tjugo Tjugo ©2014 Conservative Home, All rights reserved #Left Foot Forward » Feed Left Foot Forward » Comments Feed Left Foot Forward » We repeat, migrants are *less* likely to claim benefits than indigenous Britons Comments Feed The failure of the Swiss referendum demonstrates the need to tackle high pay globally Remembering Harvey Milk * About * Our writers * Donate * Volunteer Skip to content * Economy * Foreign Policy * Public Services * Social Justice * Media * Environment « The failure of the Swiss referendum demonstrates the need to tackle high pay globally Remembering Harvey Milk » We repeat, migrants are *less* likely to claim benefits than indigenous Britons By James Bloodworth | Published: November 27, 2013 Tweet In a sop to UKIP, David Cameron has pledged to bar migrants from claiming out-of-work benefits for three months after their arrival to the UK. Polish passport The measure is supposed to put off ‘would-be benefit tourists’ from coming to Britain. What David Cameron probably won’t tell you, however, is that migrants from Eastern Europe are less likely to claim benefits than indiginous Britons. Most migrants from the EU do not come to Britain to sign on, but to work. Migrants who came to the UK after the year 2000 have made a ‘substantial’ contribution to public finances, according to a recent study by University College London. Those from the European Economic Area (EEA – the EU plus Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) made a particularly strong contribution in the decade up to 2011, contributing 34 per cent more in taxes than they received in benefits, the study found. Other data backs this up. In 2008-09, at the height of Labour’s policy of so-called ‘uncontrolled immigration’, A8 immigrants paid 37 per cent more in direct or indirect taxes than they received in public goods and services. A8 immigrants contributed 0.96 per cent of total tax receipts and accounted for only 0.6 per cent of total expenditures (see table). Benefit tourists And before someone makes a boring argument about Britain’s benefit system being ‘the most generous in Europe’, that isn’t true either. A study by the Economic and Social Research Council’s Centre for Population Change (CPC) carried out last year found that the UK had below average levels of welfare spending among developed nations. (See graph). Benefits graph There is no reason to view Britain as any more attractive to benefit tourists than other EU countries, and no reason to view the latest ‘crackdown’ on ‘welfare tourism’ as anything other than an attempt to shore up the right-wing vote. Benefit tourism just isn’t a significant problem. This entry was posted in A Britain We All Call Home and tagged benefit tourism, Immigration, migration. Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL. * « The failure of the Swiss referendum demonstrates the need to tackle high pay globally Remembering Harvey Milk » * https://mikestallard.virtualgallery.com/ Mike Stallard James – I work at a Centre which welcomes immigrants and has done since the Poles first arrived. What you say is absolutely true – at first they were exemplary. They worked like demons for our centre (and church) voluntarily AFTER 12 hour shifts at the factory or in the fields! But things have changed a lot now. There are professional human traffickers around who shove people in here for money. There are professional hucksters who show how, if you just get rid of your partner, you can get free housing and so on. There are a lot of Europeans now, collecting all the welfare they can get – and then collecting it at home too. Oh yes, the vast majority do in fact do us the honour of becoming British. They learn the language, dress and behave just like us and their children are as British as you or me. Lovely people most of them too. Overall I am very positive about immigrants: they have saved our (Catholic) Church. But there is enormous amount of swindling too. * SimonB It’s been pointed out elsewhere that much of what was announced today is already being done, and the new bit, the minimum earning threshold, is probably illegal. So another triumph for tabloid-led policy. * Sparky James Bloodworth’s thinking: 1. Migrants are less-likely to claim benefits than the indigenous population, but 2. Migrants don’t take jobs away from the indigenous population. Which is it? Either they’re competing in the job market or they’re not. Perhaps he could clarify. * Two Bob I care about all of the youth that are leaving our education system and are being left on the scrap heap because it is cheaper for big business to hire immigrant pre trained labour than directly train our youth for the work (not because our boys and girls are lazy – mere propaganda). I was talking to a check out girl at Aldi the other day, lovely 26 year old woman from Poland, got a good degree and works shelf stacking at Aldi and has been there for a few years. If that is not a waste of her education and potential I do not know what else is. Why is her country not providing her with the opportunities she deserves and why is our country not giving our school leavers the opportunities they deserve, relative to their education rather than leaving them to wither away on benefits? Everyone has to start somewhere, but why would an employer want to give a basic job to a school leaver with no experience if the rotten system allows them to have someone (and an unlimited supply of people) with a degree and a couple of years of experience ready and willing but prepared to work for the same salary (or less)? The fact this system allows that to happen is what disgusts me, but of course organisations like the CBI love the EU – this sort of thing benefits them. Westminster is a mess and the EU is a mess. There is nothing wrong with a free trade area but there is everything wrong with having a federal cancer attached to it. For Britain, France, and Spain and Greece etc all to be successful in the future is to have politicians that work soley for their own people, not the so called European project. Being more country orientated is not going to start a war, Europe would not suddenly go back 70 years – but chronic youth unemployment alonemay cause it. Because of immigration the jobs being created are quickly being taken by migrants. There is a crisis in the NHS and Education because of the sheer volume. The birthrate is out of control, pushing our population up to unsustainable levels. There is also a housing crisis which can only be appeased by building on greenbelt land which would be a nothing other than a catastrophe, becoming apparent in the near future. Unfettered immigration is wrong for Britain and will eventually be the straw that broke the camels back. It is eroding the quality of our lives piece by piece year after year. Just remember how limited in size our country is. If Britain leaves the EU it will be much better for all of us. Britain could create its own Common Market with its former colonies, from India to Australia, from South Africa to Canada. And will save alot of money. We wont be alone or isolated in the world – our ultimate goal would be to broker and associate with many of the trading blocks around the world without having to join at the hip – it is a huge opportunity. Those people who accuse us Ukippers of being Little Englanders are themselves infact Little Britainers or Little Europeans. We are not even remotely suggesting turning our backs on Europe or clicking our fingers to bring online our defensive shield, so why say that? Many of us Ukippers love Europe itself and spend considerable holiday time in France, Spain, Italy, not to mention dear old Scotland. We are proud Britons, and proud members of the family of Europe. But we cannot stomach having a tsunami of regulation and legislation handed down to us by mediocre, unelected bureaucrats, presiding over a monetary union that has been disastrous for several smaller nations and bodes ill for several larger. We cannot accept that our independence has beengiven away by the slitherers of new labour, and we are going to reclaim it. We accept that controlled immigration can welcome talent to Britain through stringent admission procedures, but for people with degrees from poor countries to come here and work minimum wage jobs, out competing our school leavers simply because their minimum (and average) wage is a fraction of ours is immoral and is quite frankly a kick in the teeth. Anyone can have huge work ethic if they are given the opportunity to earn 5 times more than they usually would, so the playing field is hardly level, not to mention the people in semi skilled jobs formerly earning a living wage having to re-price themselves in the jobs market, widening the gap between rich and poor. Free movement between Britain, Holland, France, Germany, Italy Finland etc was never the issue. The amount of free movement a country and its citizens can have access to should be directly linked to the wealth of their country, their economic performance should reach a minimum standard per capita before full free movement can be initiated, otherwise it is simply a race to the bottom for the working class of western Europe, and extremist parties will get the opportunity to take advantage, and massively take advantage they will if things carry on as they are. Expect an huge army of eurosceptics from France, Britain, Holland, Denmark, Finland, Italy in May 2014 based on this issue, and also the issue of the euro, both which are dragging ordinary people (and countries) off the edge of a cliff, the process of turning Europe into a country, slowly but surely (deny it all you like europhiles, but that is the ultimate goal and you cannot fool us) is harming its citizens. I cannot fathom how any normal person from any country, let alone England/Britain can disagree with any of this, unless they have a serious vested interest, whether that is their hiring of a cheap cash in hand nanny from Latvia, or their gravy train in Brussels waiting for them to climb aboard once they get booted out of government. So please, get a grip and look at society as a whole, not just GDP, human nature is far more important. Boston & Skegness will get its first UKIP MP (among many) for a reason. Britain is the dustbin of Europe, and Poland is now thriving, yes because less people mean less unemployment, whilst we pay for their kids at home and go to foodbanks. Limited imigration is good. Uncontrolled mass economic migration is not. You are a typical chattering class stooge. Any left winger who thinks the system is fine as it is needs to look at themselves in the mirror and think about the working class of Britain for a change. Champagne socialists make me sick. * Dave Roberts James. I was about to go on the offensive when I saw the main title but by the time I got to the article itself I saw you had changed the story somewhat. Poles are not Somalis and it is totally disingenuous to to suggest that they are. A book well worth reading is ” The Diversity Illusion” by Ed West who totally demolishes the current liberal/extreme left consensus on immigration. Ignoring benefits received at the point of delivery such as education and the NHS Poles take a half of one per cent of other applied for benefits. With Somalis the figure is over seventy. Poles, Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians and others, but not all, from the former Soviet empire are essentially Europeans with all that that implies. Their religious, family and general social values are very similar to our own. That cannot be said of a culture like the Somalis, and I realise that there are sub groups and cultures among them, that believe in female genital mutilation. Sub Saharan Africa isn’t and never will be largely Catholic eastern Europe. To point that out isn’t, as Simon B seems to be saying, a victoryfor tabloid led something or other, it’s just true. * TM The Left is indeed full of the chattering classes of London, basically the affluent Middle class socialists who pretend to care. Why do they care so much about immigrants and not poor Working class people in Britain? Anyone care to answer that? Immigration is about one thing: CHEAP LABOUR!!!! Do the Middle class suffer here? Well if they were believe me there’d be a change of tune coming from them, but as it’s only poor people being affected, who cares about them anyway? As long the Middle class of whatever political persuasion have their affluent careers and nice housing and access to good education and wonderful lifestyles, well why would they care? Have they ever? They are the archetypal do gooding class, either contemptuous of the white Working class or patronising. That about sums up the Right and the Left in this country. And anyone who disagrees with a Middle class person is either a racist or a pleb!!! So there’s no debate either. Welcome to 21st century Britain. I will never vote for UKIP however because we would be swapping one load or rich posh Southern boys with privileged lives, for another. Some choice that would be. * Sparky This is why I am against more migrants: 1. They are competing for jobs that unemployed people here could do. 2. They are prepared to work for less so they drive down wages 3. They put added pressure on housing and infrastructure and public services What are your top three reasons for more migrants? I don’t mean a critique of my reasons, I mean three positive benefits. * Sparky Come on James, how about an article addressing that question? They’re not going to claim benefits but they’re also not going to compete with British workers for jobs? * Boston_scoundrel 1. They make a massive net fiscal contribution to the UK economy. EEA migrants contributed, net, about £22bn between 2001 and 2011 (according to the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration at University College London). 2. They are, therefore, making a proportionally bigger contribution to infrastructure and services than UK natives 3. They stop us becoming insular and mono-cultural * Dave Roberts Boston_ scoundrel. Two points. How much do they take out and what is the political orientation of the think tank you use? * Boston_scoundrel It’s a NET fiscal contribution – that is, they put in much more than they take out (unlike the average of the native UK population, which are net takers). I didnt quote a think tank – I quoted an academic source (the clue is in the name: University College London) * TM Yes this may be true, and there are many benefits we have accrued because of immigration, but the basic premise all seem to forget is that it is now essentially about cheap unlicensed labour that means more profits for the affluent and a lack of jobs for millions unemployed here. Of course, if you are wealthy or one of those affluent Middle class Lefties it won’t affect you will it??!! * Boston_scoundrel That’s simply not true. Ignoring Daily Express headlines (not noted for their accuracy) proper academic studies have shown that the displacement effect at the lower end of the labour market – which is what you are referring to – is pretty small. About 1 in 13 jobs held by a migrant worker displaces one which could be done by a UK native. The really worrying issue is with high skill, high value jobs where something like 20% of jobs are held by non-native employees, because UK schools and universities aren’t producing young people with the right skills. Without the immigration you are worried about, those employers would pack up and go somewhere else. The issue you should early get your arse in your hands about isn’t immigration, it’s the woeful state of British education. * TM OK, that’s a fair point and you engaged with me lucidly and intelligently. But the fact is that a lot of immigration is about cheap labour ultimately. The perception, whether right or wrong, is that many work in jobs that should be better paid so that people here could do them and not be ruthlessly exploited. Incidentally, where do you get your stats from? Another problem I have is people dismissing an argument because they say it’s false and misleading, but then everyone and his dog can do that can’t they if they disagree with an opinion? Most realities, harsh ones, involve some kind of economics at their core, and immigration seems to be about exploitation and getting away with paying low wages to people who see those wages as high. It’s not rocket science mate! * TM Yes. That is rather contradictory isn’t it? I guess he won’t feel the need to answer but do what they all do, issue statements from on high. That’s why most politics is a game played by the affluent. * Boston_scoundrel The point is that the perception is wrong. The 1 in 13 figure comes from the Government’s Migration Advisory Committee, from work they did on the economic implications of immigration, published 18 months or so ago. The 20% figure comes from the Office for National Statistics. Immigration may seem to be about cheap labour and driving down wages. But the reality is that it isnt. The problem is that people form a view on the basis of perception, or headlines in the Daily Mail, and dont bother to investigate the real facts… * LB Tell us again why we need any migrants on benefits? Look at the cost. Bugger all in tax. Lots of paying money out. If you want migrants like that, there’s a simple test. You personally sponsor them and pay out of your pocket. * LB How does a migrant on welfare make a net fiscal contribution? They don’t. Now look at how much a migrant needs to pay in tax to make a net contribution. The government spends 11.5K a year per person. You need to be on 44K a year to break even. Each and every migrant. And that ignores the pensions. So the Cream report from UCL is bonkers. No numbers as to earnings. Huge numbers are not earning 44K a year and so are not making a net contribution. They are paying a few quid in tax, and getting all their services for free, paid for by other people. e.g 1. Abu Hamzah – benefit claimant. 2. Abrambovich. Hamzah isn’t making a net contribution is he? He cost over a million and paid no tax. Why are you trying to claim Abu Hamzah is good for the UK? * LB They don’t. How does Abu Hamzah make a net contribution? How does the 29% on welfare make a net contribution? * LB Put up a reference. The growth in the number of employed and the growth in the number of migrants shows where the jobs are going. If you haven’t noticed, there has been an increase in employement, increase in migration, and bugger all decrease in unemployment. ie. There is a huge displacement going on. * Boston_scoundrel What’s Hamza got to do with it? Nothing. The fact is that EEA migrants make a massive net fiscal contribution. That’s a fact. No amount of huffing and puffing about one man makes any difference. And it’s a fact that migrants make up about 13% of the total workforce! but only7% of out of work benefit claimants. EEA migrants make up about 10% of the workforce but about 5% of out of work benefit claimants. In other words, migrants are less likely to be claiming benefits than UK natives and EEA migrants much less likely. They are facts. They might be inconvenient for you, but they are facts. The source of these facts is the Office of National Statistics. Which, no doubt, you will claim to be biased in some way… * Boston_scoundrel It’s obviously nonsense to suggest that all the new jobs in the economy have gone to migrants. I don’t know about you, but where I work almost all new job starters are UK natives. That’s true of most jobs. Something like 20000 people start a new job each week and the vast majority were born here. About 85% of new jobs go to UK natives. That’s a fact. (Source – Jonathan Portes writing in the Spectator in 2012) * LB Abu Hamzah has everything to do with it. I asked a question and you won’t answer it. Abu Hamzah was a migrant. Did he or did he not make a net contribution to the UK? Simple question. You’re claiming migrants make a net contribution. Hamzah is a migrant. Just finding out whether or not your claim is true. Did Hamzah make a net contribution? * LB In other words, migrants are less likely to be claiming benefits than UK natives and EEA migrants much less likely. ============ That may well be the case. My figures based off research you’ve quoted put the number higher. However, you’re not answering the question I’ve asked you’ve dodged it. For those migrants on welfare, do they make a net contribution? The answer is no they don’t. They consume money from other people on welfare and from the tax payer. * LB I never claimed they did. I said that employment has gone up. Migration has gone up. Unemployment hasn’t changed much. That means that most of the new jobs have gone to migrants. If that was not the case, then unemployment would have gone down dramatically. You can’t explain that away. * Boston_scoundrel The same way a UK native on benefits makes a net contribution. They don’t. But migrants are much less likely to be on benefits than U K natives and there are far fewer of them. I’ve said nothing about Hamza, he’s irrelevant to the argument * Boston_scoundrel We don’t need anyone on benefits. But we have a welfare state which pays benefits to people judged to need them, wherever they were born. * LB Notice the generalisation. e.g. Because one migrant is good, all migrants must be good. Imaging Boston’s reaction if someone claimed that a black man had committed a crime, and all black men must be criminals. He would rightly go apoplectic, but he’s prepared to use the logic of the BNP in arguing his case. * LB I’ve asked you to comment because he’s entirely relevant. You are using BNP logic. e.g If one black man commits a crime, then all black men must be criminals is their way of thinking and logic. You’re applying that to migration. You’re saying because some migrants make a net contribution that all migrants must make a net contribution. They don’t. Hence the question about Hamzah. By your logic he must make a net contribution and so must be good for the UK. I’m asking you to back that up. Now you know that’s not the case, so you’re dodging the question. The reason why its relevant is that migration is a choice. The UK can say no and it can say yes on an individual basis. It should do that. It should reject all migrants on welfare because the migrant on welfare is not making a net contribution. Are you going to deny that? [My prediction is you'll make another BNP like statement about all migrants being good for the UK] * LB Yes. And we have a migration system that could say, we don’t want migrants on welfare. We can refuse to accept them into the UK. * Boston_scoundrel You are misunderstanding the point quite spectacularly.. Of course not every migrant makes a net contribution. I havent claimed that they do and noone, to the best of my knowledge, has argued that they do. Migrants as a whole make a massive net fiscal contribution. Some individuals, of course, do not. But the point is what happens in the aggregate. That is why any individual case is basically irrelevant – it doesnt change the aggregate position. I am not saying that some migrants make a net contribution therefore individually they all do. I am saying that the fact is that, in the aggregate, migrants make a net contribution. Some give, some take, but the former more than outweighs the latter. So of course Hamxa doesnt make a net contribution. I never claimed that he did, you just misunderstood my point. Do migrants on benefits make a net contribution? It depends on the timescale over which you measure. While they are claiming benefits, no they dont. But if they then get a job and make a positive contribution for then next 10 years, they may well might. So it isnt quite as simple as yu would like it to be. * Boston_scoundrel Except, of course, that some migrants we force onto welfare whether they want to work or not (those seeking asylum). * Boston_scoundrel You’re wrong. The fact is that the vast majority of new jobs have gone to UK natives. The number of jobs has gone up and most have them, the vast majority of them, have gone to UK natives. Because the number of new jobs has outstripped the rate of migration and the majority of new entrants to the labour market are UK natives. See, that was quite easy to explain away. * Boston_scoundrel No, of course not. I have never claimed he did. You have just misunderstood my point. * Boston_scoundrel Yes, of course they do. That’s obvious. I’ve never claimed otherwise. But it doesnt change the fact that, in the aggregate, migrants are net contributors to the UK economy. In the aggregate – which does not mean that ever single migrant is a net contributor – just that more are than are not. A relatively simple point. * Boston_scoundrel I have never used that logic. I’m afraid you’ve made that up * LB Of course not every migrant makes a net contribution. I havent claimed that they do and noone, to the best of my knowledge, has argued that they do. =============== So why are we accepting the migrants who don’t make a net contribution? eg. Abu Hamzah. For the migrants who do make a net contribution, I’m all for them. Migration is an option. The country can choose to accept or reject. So accept the factual part, now progress. So where do you set the boundary. How big a contribution does a migrant have to make to make a net contribution. You claim that over all they do, so you must know where that boundary is (on average). * TM Statistics. There is a saying you might do well to learn ‘there are lies, damned lies…and statistics.’ And as for that rag the Daily Mail, I would not use it for toilet paper. The problem I have with the whole immigration debate is that it is an ‘all or nothing’ kind of debate, or ‘you are either for us or against us’ or you are either saint for agreeing with it, or an evil Right wing racist if you don’t! So, only extreme views are heard and moderates like myself with misgivings are dismissed. This is a democracy and there are other voices other than the polarised ones. That’s what is wrong with all politics at the moment. * Boston_scoundrel And there’s more to sensible analysis of the facts than tired old cliches. My views aren’t at all extreme. There’s a debate to be had about migration and it’s impacts. I have no problem with that. All I am saying is that it is better on the whole if one’s opinions are based on facts and evidence rather than supposition and assumption * TM ‘There’s a debate to be had about migration and it’s impacts.’ That we can agree on then my friend. There is no real debate on it at all, it is too polarised. It is too black and white and the world is usually infinite shades of grey. I notice that even in Left leaning newspapers like the Daily Mirror most people are also concerned about immigration too. I was the archetypal sort of trendy Lefty too, applauding multi culturalism and immigration. But I am not so sure now. The debate is beyond politics, it is a whole raft of issues that have been sidelined, marginalised or ignored. Yes my friend, we need an OPEN debate on it. I won’t hold my breath waiting for ANY party to open it though, until it gets too big to be ignored, as I think it almost is now. Watch this space… * TM ps I never said your views were extreme either!!! Even Sparky makes the odd valid point here and there. That my Boston scoundrel is what we call participatory democracy, opinions you or I may not agree with but should be heard all the same, not stifled for some political or other agenda. If someone then says something provocative or racist or whatever, they can then be argued down effectively. That is democracy. It is not all agreeing for politeness’ sake. We can in the end agree to disagree. * Boston_scoundrel No one would ever accuse me of being trendy, but I am absolutely sure that multiculturalism is to be applauded and encouraged. The alternative, in which we all look and sound the same, is too awful to contemplate * TM Perhaps I overegged the trendy bit! I tend to see the trendy Lefties as very Middle class too, which is something I am most certainly not. It can be a stance after all. What you say I agree with, and I love many cultures, and many different foods, and love to learn about many places. The problem may be that what happens when the people who are supposed to integrate, on all sides, don’t particularly want to? It seems almost enforced to me and it is obvious in many towns in the UK and the West in general that often people stick to their own communities. Middle class people eulogise community and multiculturalism because it is something alien them, often growing up in all white affluent and perhaps rather bland suburbs filled with respectable suburban folk with similar mentalities and a clipped accent. Don’t many Middle class people all look and sound the same, certainly where accents are concerned? I have a regional accent myself, the type of accent that is looked down and sneered at by white Middle class people, strangely enough the same no doubt who would be promoting equality and diversity!!! I do agree with difference, in fact being a cook I love variety and difference, I just find that there is an agenda behind some of it which is or can be disingenuous. Why isn’t white Working class culture celebrated in England, or Irish culture? Thirty years ago the Irish were being demonised, now it’s the Muslims. Nothing changes. * Lance If there were no jobs for taking, why would they come here? * * YouGov Tracker IFRAME: http://widgets.yougov.com/UKWidget/widget-xsmall.html?referral_code = * Touchstone Economic Tracker IFRAME: http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/economic-dashboard/widget.php?w=280&h= 230 * IFRAME: //www.facebook.com/plugins/likebox.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faceb ook.com%2Fpages%2FLeft-Foot-Forward%2F119855314479&width=292&height =290&show_faces=true&colorscheme=light&stream=false&border_color&he ader=true&appId=138959422912841 * Best of the web * Archive [Select Month__] * [join-twitter-followers.jpg] Published by Left Foot Forward Ltd, registered in England and Wales number 06978729. Hosted in Texas, USA by Rackspace US, Inc. Powered by WordPress, Thematic Theme Framework and W3 Total Cache. #Left Foot Forward » Feed Left Foot Forward » Comments Feed Left Foot Forward » It’s now clear that Tuesday’s immigration proposals were pure dog whistling Comments Feed SNP EU plans in serious doubt You don’t have to be in government to be in power * About * Our writers * Donate * Volunteer Skip to content * Economy * Foreign Policy * Public Services * Social Justice * Media * Environment « SNP EU plans in serious doubt You don’t have to be in government to be in power » It’s now clear that Tuesday’s immigration proposals were pure dog whistling By Jill Rutter | Published: November 28, 2013 Tweet David Cameron was evidently in a panic on Tuesday. He had 50 or so of his back-benchers chomping on their bits and demanding amendments to the Immigration Bill that would call for a continuation of transitional controls on Bulgarian and Romanian nationals. UK border agency The quarterly migration statistics were due and he was also expecting a visit from Laszlo Andor, the EU Commissioner on Employment. There is growing concern about Roma immigration. And then there is UKIP and the lifting in the new year of transitional controls on Romanian and Bulgarian nationals. Yet the statistics tell a more complex picture and a consensus is emerging that Tuesday’s proposals are either ineffective, unworkable, or a re-articulation of existing policy. As such, they will do little to allay public concerns about migration. The migration statistics paint a complex picture. Net migration has increased, but this can mostly be explained by a decrease in emigration. This only highlights the perversity of the net immigration policy. Overall, immigration has fallen, but compared with the previous year to 1 September there has been an increase in work visa migration (up 5 per cent), student migration to the higher education sector (up 7 per cent) asylum migration and EU migration. When these statistics are broken down further, the increase in asylum migration can be explained by an increase from a small number of countries, particularly Syria. Trends in EU migration are interesting when set alongside the DWP’s National Insurance Number (NiNo) data. Over the last 12 months to September 2013 New National Insurance number registrations from Bulgarians and Romanians have fallen by 17 per cent and 22 per cent respectively. This suggests that the Bulgarians and Romanians who have arrived are return migrants, having come to the UK on a previous occasion (the peak year for Romanian National Insurance number registrations was 2006/07). The NiNo statistics show a large increase in new registrations from nationals from the ‘old’ EU, from Spain (up 50 per cent), Italy (up 35 per cent), Portugal (up 43 per cent) and Greece (up 44 per cent). So today’s immigration statistics are a story about the Eurozone crisis and the weak economies in southern Europe. This makes the Cameron proposals – targeted at Bulgarians and Romanians – somewhat irrelevant. Tuesday’s proposals include a suggestion that no EU migrant will be able to claim jobseeker’s allowance for more than a maximum of six months unless they can prove that they have a genuine prospect of employment. Yet 2004 Treaty regulations mean that new migrants forfeit their European Economic Area (EEA) worker status – which gives them freedom of movement – if they lose their job. Essentially, a new migrant must be in employment in the UK to secure EEA worker status. Already any protracted period of unemployment of an EEA national who does not have settlement rights in the UK is likely to disqualify that person from benefits and rights of residency in the UK. Cameron also suggested that any EU national sleeping rough or begging will be deported and barred from re-entry for 12 months “unless they can prove they have a proper reason to be here, such as a job”. Any mass round-up of rough sleepers would be very difficult to implement, as some London local authorities have discovered. In summary, Tuesday’s proposals are pure dog whistling. A more considered approach is needed. If Cameron wants to reduce EU immigration he needs policies that focus on the ‘push’ factors that cause migrants to move to the UK. EU migration is a European issue and economic policy needs to focus on youth unemployment in southern European. If we want to reduce immigration from Romania and Bulgaria, we need to improve the lot of the Roma population. In Romania, where this minority makes up an estimated 7 per cent of the population, recent research showed that just 10 per cent of Roma adults had regular work and 52 per cent had no work at all. Even though educational outcomes have improved recently, some 20 per cent of Roma adults are illiterate and access to healthcare and education, particularly for those who have moved to the cities, is difficult. It is unsurprising, therefore, that Roma move to the UK. Instead of empty rhetoric, the government needs to use its foreign and economic policy, and the institutions of the EU to improve conditions in eastern and southern Europe. In the UK there are real concerns about the integration of Roma immigrants, particularly from Romania. Yet some Roma have integrated into their new neighbourhoods. This has been achieved by the hard work of community leaders, teachers, police, third sector organisations, Brits and the migrants themselves. We should be promoting integration and replicating success, rather than issuing unworkable policy statements. This entry was posted in A Britain We All Call Home and tagged Immigration, immigration statistics, migration. Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL. * « SNP EU plans in serious doubt You don’t have to be in government to be in power » * Adam Thank you for a great article which I enjoyed reading. When I saw the PM’s comments re immigration on Tuesday my first reaction was one of dismay because I wish the PM paid as much attention to youth unemployment as he did to Immigration. * Simon Masters Good to read your words Jill. LFF! * Dave Roberts He is paying attention to immigration as much as Labour is because it is a hot button issue. People are genuinely concerned about the level of immigration and it is useless to try and say anything else. While we are on the subject can someone tell me what whistling dogs has got to do with this issue? * TM ‘EU migration is a European issue and economic policy needs to focus on youth unemployment in southern European.’ Yes agreed. And perhaps also focus on youth unemployment in North West Europe as well, and the growing class and wealth divides across North West Europe too. Instead of flying off somewhere and being the saviours of the world, the leaders of the West would do well to sort out problems in their own countries. And that’s aimed at both the Left and the Right. ‘If we want to reduce immigration from Romania and Bulgaria, we need to improve the lot of the Roma population.’ Yes agreed. And perhaps we also need to improve the lot of the poor, the disabled and the pensioners who can’t afford to heat their homes in the UK as well. All this do gooding is welcome but where are the concerned voices for the now tens of thousands of pensioners who will die this year? The Bible says charity begins at home. Again and again, we wake up to the fact that if we want a fairer and more equitable Europe, we have to ensure that wages in wealthy countries are living wages, and that checks and balances have to be in place, and these things have to be paid for in the first place by the acceptance of a fair tax system. Because if we don’t pay now, we will pay later, in ways we might unforeseen. Greed will destroy everything. * Dacus Thank you for the links to the DWP, they gave me ammunition in all discussions. The number of Romas in Romania has been greatly exaggerated, they are less than a million . roughly 4% of the total population. Yet the British Media has presented all Romanians as Romas (all recent newspaper pictures show exclusively Romas, not Romanians). Finally, Cameron’s legislation meant to “deter” Romanians and Bulgarians will end hurting Italians,Spaniards and other old EU citizens far more. Now, that is hilarious! * john ‘Dog Whistle’ is when you gain electoral support by making statements which people want to hear but in reality not acting on them. To put it simply: Talk the talk but not walk the walk For example after UKIP got success in the local elections for a week the main parties were publicly saying they would be tough on immigration, that they understand people etc to try and claw votes back from UKIP to the main 3. Will they end mass immigration? Nope but they will put the wool over peoples’ eyes and tell them what they want to hear yet do the opposite * * YouGov Tracker IFRAME: http://widgets.yougov.com/UKWidget/widget-xsmall.html?referral_code = * Touchstone Economic Tracker IFRAME: http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/economic-dashboard/widget.php?w=280&h= 230 * IFRAME: //www.facebook.com/plugins/likebox.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faceb ook.com%2Fpages%2FLeft-Foot-Forward%2F119855314479&width=292&height =290&show_faces=true&colorscheme=light&stream=false&border_color&he ader=true&appId=138959422912841 * Best of the web * Archive [Select Month__] * [join-twitter-followers.jpg] Published by Left Foot Forward Ltd, registered in England and Wales number 06978729. Hosted in Texas, USA by Rackspace US, Inc. Powered by WordPress, Thematic Theme Framework and W3 Total Cache. #Liberal Democrat Voice » Teather slams Home Office “Go Home” billboards as “straightforward intimidation” Comments Feed Martin Horwood MP writes… Balance of competence reports shows EU membership is crucial for UK jobs An Open Letter to The New Prince Liberal Democrat Voice latest posts Liberal Democrat Voice latest comments Liberal Democrat Voice Our place to talk – an independent website for supporters of the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. The most-read website by and for Lib Dem supporters. Not paid for by trade unions or millionaires. Skip to content * Home * Member surveys * Video * Archive * Members' forum * Donate * Write for us! * About us * Cookies * Mobile * libel-reform-campaign-logo Julian Huppert: defending free speech with libel reform * immigration Immigration: 87% of Lib Dems back free movement within EU * caron lindsay Caron Lindsay: How can we do politics better? * LibDemVoice Who is your Liberal Voice of the Year? Vote now... Caron Lindsay Teather slams Home Office “Go Home” billboards as “straightforward intimidation” By Caron Lindsay | Mon 22nd July 2013 - 7:47 pm Follow @caronmlindsay Tweet The Evening Standard reports that the Home Office is planning on sending large billboards with “Go home or face arrest” on them around six London boroughs: The billboards will also display the number of illegal migrants arrested recently in the relevant part of the capital. Ministers say that the hardline message is intended to encourage visa overstayers or others here unlawfully to return voluntarily. A phone number offering help – including potential free flights and other travel assistance – will also be shown on the adverts along with the promise that those who come forward voluntarily will not be detained while they arrange their departure. The use of the advertising vans, which will be deployed initially to six London boroughs including Ealing, Barnet and Hounslow, forms the latest stage in a renewed Home Office drive against illegal migrants in recent months. Some critics are likely to see the move as evidence of an excessively hostile attitude to migrants. Sarah Teather, whose Brent constituency is one of the targets of this campaign has taken great exception to the plan: This is the latest in a string of Home Office announcements that are designed to make the Government look tough on immigration. But I fear that the only impact this deeply divisive form of politics will have will be to create tension and mistrust towards anyone who looks and sounds foreign. Instead of trying to grab cheap headlines, the Government would be much better advised to tackle the real issues that undermine confidence in the immigration system. Home Office statistics show that decision making by officials is extremely poor and leads to a quarter of initial decisions to refuse asylum being overturned on appeal. And many of those people who the Government are targeting with these policies are either those whose case has been mishandled by the Home Office, or who Ministers acknowledge cannot be sent home because they wouldn’t be safe. Vulnerable individuals who are fleeing persecution and violence are treated with disbelief and a complete lack of compassion in a rigid and inhumane system. But rather than tackling these problems head on, Ministers are choosing to once more crank up the anti-migrant rhetoric. These adverts are nothing less than straightforward intimidation and can only have bad consequences for communities like those I represent in Brent, where people from all faiths and races have mixed for decades. We will all be much poorer for it. It worries me that this sort of thing will just generate hatred towards people, including those who have every right to be in this country. It certainly has the potential to make everyone who has made their home in this country feel very uncomfortable. My instinctive reaction is to want to stand with the people who are or who will feel they are the target of these billboards. One person suggested on Twitter that she’s tempted to have a suitable reply printed on a t-shirt and to wear it round Brent. It got me thinking that this initiative actually deserves to be mocked into retreat. Sometimes the best way to deal with these deeply divisive things is to come up with some humorous, eye-catching riposte. Any ideas? * Caron Lindsay is Co-Editor of Liberal Democrat Voice and blogs at Caron's Musings Read more by Caron Lindsay or more about home office, immigration or sarah teather. This entry was posted in News. Bookmark the web address for this page or use the short url http://ldv.org.uk/35421 for Twitter and emails. « Previous Post Next Post » 39 Comments * Simon Titley 22nd Jul '13 - 8:50pm This really does reveal the Tories in their true colours. Will this decision be disowned by Nick Clegg or Jeremy Browne? I am reminded of a story about the late, great Clement Freud. He was canvassing in his constituency one day when he met a woman who told him, “I’ve half a mind to vote Tory.” “Madam,” he replied, “that’s all you need.” * Jennie 22nd Jul '13 - 9:53pm Sarah is spot on about this. Shame the rest of the parliamentary party are letting it happen. * CP 22nd Jul '13 - 11:41pm :O This is really bad. Its terrible. I don’t even have any funnies for this :( * Tim13 22nd Jul '13 - 11:46pm This is an absolute disgrace – such f*scist tactics are unworthy of any democratic government. Party Conference should consider sanctions on any elected Lib Dem who supports such bully boy nastiness. ALL Liberals without exception in the past would have totally condemned it. * Chris 22nd Jul '13 - 11:58pm I presume there’s some small print somewhere saying these billboards aren’t directed at everyone who looks a bit foreign? You lot really do have a lot to answer for. * Lee_Thacker 23rd Jul '13 - 12:11am I want the T-Shirt! * Lee_Thacker 23rd Jul '13 - 12:11am I want the T-Shirt! * David Allen 23rd Jul '13 - 12:20am Let’s round up anybody we suspect might be an illegal, and let’s make them all display a demeaning symbol, which shows all the rest of us who they are. The Nazis made their targets wear the Star of David, but we’ll find something else to mark out our targets. It’s only harmless fun, sort of. Next we smash up their buildings. Let’s call that Crystal Nite. And next…. * Alistair 23rd Jul '13 - 12:22am Its funny how when the Tories have aussie advisors like Crosby or Plattell they always play the immigration card, with no sense of irony whatsoever. It is a source of eternal shame that we facilitate this kind of thing. * Tony 23rd Jul '13 - 12:22am Stop using immigrants as scapegoats. The public are beginning to realise it as a ruse to draw attention away from failings in policy, especially economic policy. Enough! * Duncan Stott 23rd Jul '13 - 1:04am The Home Office posters encourage overstayers to send a text to begin their own deportation procedure. An interesting idea I spotted on Twitter earlier today was to organise a mass text to the number in protest at the campaign. * Joe Taylor 23rd Jul '13 - 1:14am It does deserve to be mocked into oblivion. Is there really a ‘text us to be deported’ service? That’s the daftest idea I’ve heard of since John Major’s ‘Cones Hotline’ – yes, the one that had people ringing up for an ice cream, or pretending to be a depressed traffic cone… * BrianD 23rd Jul '13 - 8:03am According to Guardian there is a new Ministerial group on Migrants Access to Benefits. David Laws is a member of that group alongside the Tory Immigration Minister Mark Harper. This is a disgraceful cabal and Laws shames our Party by his participation in it. * R Uduwerage-Perera 23rd Jul '13 - 8:45am As has already been mentioned this tactic is reminiscent of Nazi Germany, and personally I am disgusted that we as a Party are associated with such abuse. I joined this Party because it had a genuine history of doing the right thing with regard to equality and diversity, but since the birth of this Coalition a small percentage in our Party have actually colluded with the Right to further erode equality and human rights in this country, and to chase the votes of the bigots. Demonising people in the way that this latest tactic does, may well lead to further verbal and physical abuse of supposed ‘immigrants’, and this reality will be the responsibility of those people who implemented the programme, and those who are quietly sitting back and remaining silent even though they know that this is totally disgraceful. We could all well learn from the words of Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me — and by that time no one was left to speak up. When will we put ‘liberalism’ back as the central tenet of the Liberal Democrat Party? * Suzanne Fletcher 23rd Jul '13 - 10:26am Words almost fail me at this outrageous, ill thought out, insulting, dangerous and even stupid act. Are the people that thought this up fit to live in our society one has to ask ? I would like to know exactly which politicians knew about this and condoned it, to say nothing of whose idea it was. As Sarah Teather rightly says, the Government should be addressing their failings in how badly they are managing the immigration system. where is the compassion, humanity and dignity in all of this ? At the risk of making this a long posting, and realising this is not just about asylum seekers, I have pasted below what Liberal Democrats for Seekers of Sanctuary stand for. WE BELIEVE in standing up for those who seek sanctuary in our country. Asylum seekers should be treated with compassion, humanity and dignity. WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT the way that the present system is working with unfair deportations & removals; dawn raids; detention centre atrocities; returns to unsafe countries; unlimited detention; insecure asylum housing, and lack of support for failed asylum seekers who cannot return to their own countries. WE AIM TO co-ordinate work already being done, share ideas and experiences; be a point of reference for decision makers; and work to formulate new policy. OUR VALUES are embedded in the preamble to the Liberal Democrat Constitution. Our policies, and how they are carried out need to reflect this. * tpfkar 23rd Jul '13 - 12:43pm Totally agree with the comments here; this is appalling, and we should distance ourselves from this – and try to stop it if there is any way. 2 key campaigning points: 1) This is all part of turning sections of society against each other – we’ve seen it on benefits and we should be loudly saying that this isn’t how Lib Dems work, we seek to bring communities together not divide them. 2) The real news on immigration is the further worsening of determination figures. We should be firmly focussed on getting the backlog down, implementing the policies we have at the moment, rather than daft gimmicks playing to the crowd. Sarah Teather is fast becoming one of my favourite Lib Dem MPs and she’s shown real courage in standing up on the issues she has this year. I hope she is some way towards redemption in the eyes of many on here. * Tony Greaves 23rd Jul '13 - 3:58pm Why has no-one in this government, let alone Laws or Clegg, replied here to explain why they have allowed this despicable and very harmful Tory publicity stunt?? Pehaps Mr. Laws can tell us whether it was discussed or approved or even set up by this committee he is a member of? Tony Greaves * Suzanne Fletcher 23rd Jul '13 - 4:58pm As Tony Greaves says – I do think answers need to be given to these questions. * Eddie Sammon 23rd Jul '13 - 5:05pm I don’t see what’s so bad about this. Nobody legal has anything to worry about or should feel targeted in any way. It’s a disgrace that the “liberal” hate mob is out again, trying to bash anyone trying to tackle illegal immigration with the bigot stick. R Uduwerage-Perera demonstrates this with his quote: “…since the birth of this Coalition a small percentage in our Party have actually colluded with the Right to further erode equality and human rights in this country, and to chase the votes of the bigots.”. * Eddie Sammon 23rd Jul '13 - 5:08pm 18 comments on the trot jumping to condemn, a level of ideological conformity unhealthy for any party, backed up with the hate speech to frighten others from speaking out to support it. I don’t love these bill-boards, but I’m pretty indifferent given I want the government to tackle illegal immigration. * Eddie Sammon 23rd Jul '13 - 5:16pm Many of you are also intolerant to opposing views, the famed hypocritical liberal bigotry, yet you call others bigots. “Bigotry: intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself” * Caron Lindsay Caron Lindsay 23rd Jul '13 - 6:31pm @DuncanStott: that mass text of the number sounds like a great idea. Where did you hear it? @eddiesammon: Imagine you are married to a British citizen. You are here perfectly legally. Then these vans start coming round your area saying that there are loads of illegal immigrants there. The local EDL starts to think its area is being (in its own terms) overrun with immigrants. They decide to challenge anyone who looks or sounds a little bit foreign. That’s the way to total breakdown in community relations. It is a lot harder to get into this country than the Daily Mail would have you believe. If people are here illegally, it’s likely that at some point the Home Office has mucked up their case in some way. I wish I could get over to you how horrendously and inhumanely we treat these people. The immigration system is probably our biggest shame as a nation. I’ve seen breastfeeding babies separated from their mothers who have been made to go to the other side of the world so that they can apply to come back (against Home Office policy), I’ve seen mothers threatened with being deported without their babies, I’ve seen people who are obviously abuse victims being denied asylum and being afforded no respect or dignity. And now the government does something that might see them and others hunted down on the streets. * Mark Valladares Mark Valladares 23rd Jul '13 - 6:31pm Eddie, You are, I suspect, quite lucky, in that you aren’t a target of such a campaign. Brent is where I grew up and my parents still live there. The campaign appears to be targeted on areas where there are large BAME communities – Brent North, my old patch is predominantly South Asian these days – and sends out a barely subliminal message that is unhelpful to say the least. Indeed, I tend to agree with Chris on this, not something I often do. And, given that we went into the last General Election with a policy of earned amnesty for illegal migrants, a policy I believed to be pragmatic and liberal at the same time, it might be fair to say that whilst the majority aren’t always right, they do, I suspect, reflect the opinion of the community, in this case LDV readers. * Eddie Sammon 23rd Jul '13 - 7:24pm Caron, Mark, I agree that Lib Dems need to fight negative attitudes towards immigrants, I just get worried about the opposite “bury your head in the sand and call anyone who tries to tackle immigration a bigot” approach, just like what happened to Gillian Duffy. * Stephen Donnelly 23rd Jul '13 - 7:37pm Our claim to be a restraining influence has really taking a beating over the last couple of weeks, this is on a par with Jeremy Hunt’s outrageous claims about ’13000 excess deaths’. * Alistair 23rd Jul '13 - 7:41pm @Eddie – you only have to speak another language in public in this country to get strange looks from people. Xenophobes get plenty of encouragement from the Daily Mail, the EDL and the BNP as it is, they dont need tax funded billboards to spur them on further. In any case, its a stupid idea. What next, billboards in the City encouraging those who manipulate Libor to turn themselves in? Maybe a billboard outside Westminster to tell MPs that expenses cheats will be jailed. Its a publicity stunt and a particularly dumb one at that. * Anon MP's Caseworker 23rd Jul '13 - 8:42pm After the Oldham riots in 2001 Simon Hughes said: “we must be very careful with our language and that’s why some of us have been very critical of some of the language particularly William Hague and his colleagues have used over the last two years and it doesn’t help”. “It may not have a direct effect but it doesn’t help and in some cases it may well encourage people to think they can get away with intolerant language and intolerant attitudes and sometimes intolerant behaviour.” * Eddie Sammon 23rd Jul '13 - 9:00pm I have just seen a photograph of one of the vans and it confirms my suspicion that the level of outrage over this is unfair. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23419848 The most prominent words on the van are actually “In the UK illegally?”, not “go home or face arrest”. The Evening Standard have been deliberately misleading to provoke outrage. The Evening Standard article doesn’t even mention that the vans have on it “In the UK illegally?”, never mind as the most prominent text. * Hywel 23rd Jul '13 - 9:34pm An Open letter to Nick, Jeremy and Tim Farron which I’m seeking signatures for so any further welcome Open letter on the “Go Home or Face Arrest” billboard campaign Dear Nick, Jeremy and Tim We write as Liberal Democrat members to express our absolute disgust at the current Home Office billboards which are “touring” parts of North London carrying the message, “Go Home or face arrest”. We believe that this is an ill thought out, insulting, and even stupid act. Like Sarah Teather we believe these billboards amount to nothing more than straightforward intimidation. Like the director of Migrant Rights Network we believe this campaign will damage community relations, and increasing mistrust and suspicion of minority ethnic groups in the areas being targeted. Demonising people in this way, may well lead to further verbal and physical abuse of supposed ‘immigrants’, and this reality will be the responsibility of those people who implemented the programme. They represent a crude bit of dog whistle politics, tactics which no person standing up for liberal values should engage in. Nothing the Coalition Agreement the party signed up to suggests support for such a divisive tactic. If Liberal Democrat ministers cannot stop the promotion of such divisive campaigns then we question what use they are serving either the party or the cause of liberal values. We call on the leadership of the party, and Lib Dem ministers with Home Office responsibility to make a clear and unequivocal statement repudiating this campaign and announcing what steps that are taking to terminate it within 72 hours of the publication of this letter. Hywel Morgan, Calderdale, Author of the party’s guide on “Beating the BNP” Stephen Clarke, Tower Hamlets Executive Member Caron Lindsay Angharad Bethan Jones Rhondda Cynon Taff Welsh Liberal Democrats * * Janet King 23rd Jul '13 - 9:49pm Any Government would want to avoid detention for immigration purposes, which costs £43,000 pp per annum and causes real human misery. The UK’s DFT (Detained Fast Track) system actually uses detention as a first resort (against UNHCR detention guidelines ).Furthermore we have a system of indefinite detention so, unlike criminals, innocent refused immigrants can be detained with no time limit. Presumably the Home Office believes that the warning notices on its vans will motivate some refused asylum seekers, overstayers and possibly trafficked immigrants to come forward and accept voluntary return without detention, for which Sweden is widely praised. If we had a just and humane immigration system that could work. However our system is neither and needs to be thoroughly overhauled and frightening whole communities is not the way to do it.I still support an amnesty for settled but `illegal’ immigrants and I look forward to debating this at Spring Conference 2014. Final thought – presumably the van billboards will all be in English so thankfully quite a lot of immigrants will not be too upset by them! * David Allen 23rd Jul '13 - 10:05pm Eddie, “Go home or face arrest” appears in large capital letters on the poster, doesn’t it? Yes, it does also say “In the UK illegally?” in marginally larger lettering. What difference does that make? It also says “Text HOME to (number)”. Now, who do you suppose is going to actually do that? If it told burglars to “Text LOCK ME UP”, do you think it would get any takers? No illegal immigrant is going to send that text. Of course not. It’s just a deliberate wind-up, courtesy of government. But plenty of other people will send the text. If we’re lucky, they’ll just be practical jokers. If we’re less lucky, they’ll be neighbours with grudges, racists, far-right activists, and troublemakers. They’ll all use the opportunity to make trouble for other people they don’t like. Meanwhile, right-wing hooligans will be cheering whenever they see the vans, chasing around after them, and laughing at anybody who doesn’t like it. Do you really think these vans are a good idea? * Eddie Sammon 23rd Jul '13 - 10:50pm David I never said the vans were a good idea, I don’t have much of an opinion on them because I think they are clearly targeted at illegal immigrants, rather than all immigrants and descendants of immigrants. Disagree for sure, but I just wanted to say that I think the level of outrage, including comparing the government to Nazi Germany and calling people who want action on illegal immigration bigots, is unfair. I might even disagree with the vans, I don’t know, I just know I don’t agree with the level of outrage and the misleading Evening Standard article. * tim13 24th Jul '13 - 12:20am Oh Eddie – for goodness sake don’t be so naive! Extreme right wing regimes that re violent and cruel to people they don’t like don’t spring out of nowhere you know. All these kind of tactics act as a run-up to the really violent nasty stuff. Consider what Suzanne Fletcher says – we already have indefinite detention here. * R Uduwerage-Perera 24th Jul '13 - 7:44am Eddie, some of us live in the real world where we are acuttely aware of the fear that currently exists within some BME communities as a result of growing tensions. To believe that the entire immigration rhetoric is only about ‘illegal migrants’ is to be niave. There is as one would expect in an economic recession increased intolerance towards ANYONE who appears different. If the Party genuinely wishes to not only attract but retain BME members then it may well benefit by adopting a more evidenced based approach to what it supports and promotes, rather than making assumptions and generally chasing the Right Wing for votes. When it comes to racism, sexism, homophobia, and others forms of bigotry, even liberals would benefit from ‘drawing a line in the sand’ for otherwise they will be too late to make a difference. Bigotry is not only theoretical topic to be discussed amongst friends, or merely being called ‘nasty words’, but it very commonly involves not getting or losing a job, and equally commonly a boot in the stomach and a fist in the face, as I can vouch for. This is why I am intolerant of intolerance and may appear as not particularly “fair” or liberal on the subject. As for drawing parallels from history, this is actually rather useful, for it gives us a steer as to what may well happen next, and when it comes to the current rhetoric with regard to Immigration, and specifically Muslims, there is much that we could learn from history, I would suggest. * * nuclear cockroach 24th Jul '13 - 11:17am It’s a bloody disgrace, which would shame a BNP election poster. Theresa May should hang her head in shame. As for the Lib Dems, they should demand this poster is withdrawn and never repeated. If not, they should leave government. They cannot allow themselves to be associated with such offensive crap. I’m glad I spent some time leafleting for ST during the 2010 GE campaign and will happily do the same in 2015. * Eddie Sammon 24th Jul '13 - 11:30am R Uduwerage-Perera, I’ve been attacked by both white and ethnic minority gangs, so I do live in the real world. I just don’t make a connection between race and crime. I can’t stand prejudice! I understand the notion that if you permit intolerance then there is more of it, I just prefer to seek to understand and explain, rather than the hardline approach. * David Wilkinson 24th Jul '13 - 12:18pm I wonder if Nick will mention it in his weekly letter or will he run out of bottle. There are times when lines in the sand have to drawn. I have copied Hywel’s letter and sent it to Nick, I think I might not get a reply this time * Roland 24th Jul '13 - 12:38pm Having seen the picture of the van billboard in the BBC article Eddie posted and seen the context for the sound-bite quote , I think many are just sounding off without really thinking. From an advertisment point of view, the question that arises is what is the real intent of the campaign? I suggest from the copy the ad is intended to be scanned as: “In the UK illegally? … Text HOME to 78070″. Hence the real question is what is the purpose of the offending line, since it gives no rationale for a person to make a text. Whereas if it were to say words to the effect “Need help getting home” then I could see it having a purpose. Also is the assumption that illegal immigrants have unhindered access to functioning mobile phones. So whilst I agree with the intent of the campaign, I do disagree with the language and messages it is using. * Lester Holloway 24th Jul '13 - 3:22pm The Home Office’s “Go Home” poster is the kind of divisive stunt I would have expected if the BNP were in government. Touring the multicultural boroughs of Hounslow, Barking & Dagenham, Ealing, Barnet, and Brent today it was nothing more than a modern version of the infamous “No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs” B&B signs of the 1950′s on wheels. The choice of London boroughs displays the same kind of racial profiling that Home Secretary Theresa May says she wants the police to stop. Immigration officials are well known for their racial profiling at border control and they have conducted ‘sweeps’ outside tube stations like Brixton pulling over anyone they think looks like an illegal immigrant, ie. they are of colour. To say nothing of the prisoner-style treatment meted out to detainees of immigration detention centres or the violent conduct of security contractors when deporting people. Brent Central MP Sarah Teather recently blew the whistle on a ministerial working group on immigrants which was initially named the “Hostile Environment” group with a brief to make Britain as hostile as possible to immigrants.The “Go Home” poster looks like it as come from exactly this mindset. The leader of Brent council, Mohammed Butt, said that the government haven’t learnt the lessons of the 1950s and 60s but I believe they know exactly what they are doing. Theresa May and her ministers and officials know full well the impact of this billboard will be on multicultural communities in general rather than the odd illegal immigrant who might be passing by. It reads like a message to the whole community, an attempt to divide communities and harvest the racist vote from UKIP. People need to stop asking David Cameron if he has talked to No.10 spinner Lyndon Crosby about cigarette packaging and start asking if the pair have discussed this campaign which has all the hallmarks of the brash anti-immigrant stirring Crosby masterminded in Australia. It is an attempt to poison the 2015 election regardless of the consequences which may well be a green light to the Far Right to increase violent attacks just as anti-immigrant sentiment led to white youths beating up foreign-looking men on their sun-kissed beaches. The recent imposition of a £3,000 visa bond on visitors from Nigeria, Ghana, Bangladesh, Sri-Lanka, Pakistan and India is another example of racial profiling. Visa overstayers are just as likely to come from Australia or South Africa. All this measure will achieve is denying families in Britain the visits of relatives for weddings and funerals. Like the touring billboard, it will create resentment and a sense of unfairness within multicultural communities. And it will surely impact on British business as entrepreneurs in the fast-growing economies of Ghana, Nigeria and India think twice about investing in the UK. Combined with the arbitrary cap on foreign university students, which business secretary Vince Cable has warned will harm Britain’s interests, these policies are a huge break on the country’s faltering recovery. Instead of parading a”Go Home” message through London’s multicultural communities ministers need to ‘Go Study’ the economic and social benefits of fostering a welcoming and diverse nation and contrast this with the prospect of becoming an insular, culturally-impoverished struggling nation if they continue down the divisive Lyndon Crosby road. * Post a Comment Click here to cancel reply. Lib Dem Voice welcomes comments from everyone but we ask you to be polite, to be on topic and to be who you say you are. You can read our comments policy in full here. Please respect it and all readers of the site. If you are a member of the party, you can have the Lib Dem Logo appear next to your comments to show this. You must be registered for our forum and can then login on this public site with the same username and password. Your email is never published. 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All rights reserved. #The Green Benches - Atom The Green Benches - RSS The Green Benches - Atom publisher The Green Benches Dr Éoin Clarke (PhD) - TheGreenBenches@Hotmail.com Follow @DrEoinCl Monday, 14 October 2013 10 facts about Migrants to the UK that the Daily Mail hopes you never discover Tweet IFRAME: http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?href=http://www.greenbenchesuk .com/2013/10/10-facts-about-migrants-to-uk-that.html&layout=standard&sh ow_faces=true&width=520&action=like&font=arial&colorscheme=light Most recent data shows 1. Just 2.7% of Unemployment Benefit Claimants [JSA] are EU Migrants 2. 99% of National Insurance Numbers issued to foreigners are for workers not the jobless 3. EU Migrants from Poland & A8 Countries contribute a net £16bn+ benefit per year to the UK economy [2009 data] 4. Just 38,000 EU Migrants claim JSA at a cost of £140m to the taxpayer 5. NHS ‘Tourism’ from overseas visitors using the NHS costs 0.1% of the NHS Budget 6. EU Immigrants from Poland and other A8 countries pay 39% more in taxes than they get back in state expenditure on them 7. A UK born person of working age is 150%+ more likely to be receiving benefits than a foreign born person resident in the UK 8. 93% of foreign born persons of working age in the UK do not receive benefits 9. EU Migrants from Poland and other A8 countries are 60% less likely to live in Social Housing than UK citizens. 10. In 2011, 67% of Poles & other EU (A8) nationals who attempt to claim benefits in the UK were refused Sources: here & here IFRAME: http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?href=http://www.greenbenchesuk .com/2013/10/10-facts-about-migrants-to-uk-that.html&layout=standard&sh ow_faces=true&width=520&action=like&font=arial&colorscheme=light Tweet at Monday, October 14, 2013 2 comments: MaxyB said... While I am utterly against almost anything that the DM says I would like to inquire if you have the breakdowns of British unemployed by ethnic group. I suspect that in this case we would see an over representation of immigrant parents in poor inner city areas.It is an important point as it would tell the story in a more complete way. We all know the problems that all of our children are having with good affordable accommodation, working conditions and wages. Migration, while as I say, I have not axe to grind on a cultural level, must have some effect on the willingness or otherwise of companies and corporations to offer a living wage to their staff. In effect companies and corporations are taking advantage of the poverty in other less well off countries by encouraging people (mostly young and active) to come to this country to make a little money. They, the corporations, do this in exactly the same way as they do when they off shore altogether. In this case it is work that requires their presence but the rule still applies. Many of these young kids come here thinking they will live a bit rough in HMO's, make a bit of money and return home. They may even stick to the plan and it may help them but what does it do to the the internal job market for all of our young unemployed. It is all very well for employers to trot out the old flannel that 'young people in this country do not want to work' but could this have anything to do with the divide between what it costs to build a life at something resembling a reasonable standard of life and the rates of pay offered. The thing is that not everyone is a genius but just because of that should they have no opportunity to a fare wage? The statistics you provide are, although the opposite in nature to anything in the DM, just as misleading. If you were being entirely honest you would provide resolution to the figures. That's what I find so often, point scoring between right and left and thats getting us nowhere. Although at the opposite end of the spectrum Another factor is that of Training and Education. I have one personal story that exemplifies the situation. My daughter, has a degree in archaeology, even with much help it has left her with about £12,000 in student debts. Before the crash she obtained work (on 3 month (reducing to 2 week contracts)) as an archaeologist with a well known London museum. During her time there she had a supervisor. Her supervisor was Polish, she was the supervisor because she had a masters degree. While my daughter had a degree she did not go on to her masters for one simple reason, she would have had to fund the thing entirely by herself. On the other hand her supervisor paid nothing for her degree or her masters. Now I here that EU students can get free education in Scotland and not English Students, is this right or just another DM lie? Going further down the education scale I have one last point, whatever happened to all our builders? At one time we had an over supply of these skills and now we cant even supply enough for the building that is still going on in these depressed times. It doesn't make any sense. A full and honest discussion is in order please, not skewed incomplete statistics, whatever they appear to represent. Thursday, 28 November 2013 13:58:00 GMT [icon_delete13.gif] MaxyB said... In my last comment I meant, the children of immigrant parents, not immigrant parents, as I wrote and found when I pasted into a notepad. If you use the comment could you kindly. Regards, Trevor Thursday, 28 November 2013 14:12:00 GMT [icon_delete13.gif] Post a Comment Newer Post Older Post Home Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom) Support my Research PayPal — The safer, easier way to pay online. Popular Posts * The Cost of Cameron: 100 Worst Failures of David Cameron's Government from May 2010 to Dec 2013 * LIST: See all of the NHS Contracts worth £12 billion tendered to Private Health in the last 2 years. * 10 evidence based reasons why Michael Gove's #FreeSchools should be opposed. * Database of Tory MPs fibs & porky pies and evidence needed to disprove their claims. * Launching: #ToryLies (A database of lies told by Tory MPs to UK Voters) * Revealed: The list of Sure Start Centres listed in May 2010 now #deleted from the Government Website * The time has come to Re-Nationalise our Railways. * MPs who've tweeted to say they won't be attending Parliament Today * List: The 100 worst failures of David Cameron's Government. #LestWeForget. * David Cameron's personal legacy summed up in a graph #SureStart #FoodBanks Page Views Favorite Tweets by @DrEoinCl What I read? * Steve Walker * Tax Research UK * UK Polling Report * Liberal Conspiracy * Left Futures * Labour Left Powered by Blogger. #LabourList RSS Feed LabourList » More Tory dog-whistling Comments Feed This isn’t one of *those* pieces… The market is broken Monday, January 6th * Write for LabourList * Donate * Contact * About Us LabourList * News * Comment * Video * Seats & Selections * Local Government * Scotland * Wales * Unions * Events Sign up to receive our daily email Email* _________________________ Forename ____________________ Surname ____________________ * denotes required field Subscribe Proudly sponsored by unison speaking up unison speaking up [CWU-logo-e1326368978941.jpg] LabourList Videos * David Cameron's NHS Pledge * Sarah Tether's Stand-Up Routine Recent Posts Latest Posts * A “hard lesson” for George Osborne * We’re throwing you a party (and it’s a celebration) * Lib Dems reveal Hung Parliament plans – in bizarre Buzzfeed post… * After the water recedes – a long-term approach to flood risk * Labour voters want to talk about immigration – so why don’t we? You are here: Home » Uncategorized » More Tory dog-whistling October 21, 2013 9:42 pm Author: Kingsley Abrams Tags: Immigration Share this Article * Twitter Twitter * Facebook Facebook * Delicious Delicious * Digg Digg * Stumbleupon Stumble * Reddit Reddit General Election 2015 is now on the horizon. One of the consequence of the fixed term Parliament – a constitutional fix to bind the two parts of the coalition together – is that we can see the fingerprints of Lynton Crosby their election ‘guru’ on proposed Tory policy all over the Immigration Bill going through Parliament. Crosby’s crude dog-whistle tactics have returned the Conservative Party to the ‘nasty’ party. To their relief they can return to their right wing roots. Creating ‘hostile environments’ for migrants in an attempt to outbid UKIP and appeal to the lowest common populist denominator. We’ve had ad-vans blazoned with a message and in language reminiscent of the National Front telling so called illegal-migrants to ‘Go Home’. Blatant propaganda on the streets that seemed to have a narrow focus but which in reality was aimed at keeping immigration on the political agenda. And now this latest policy – albeit with more finessed language fit for the rarefied atmosphere of the Houses of Parliament – has the same underlying strategy, garnering votes generally and specifically those that are going to UKIP. Creating ‘hostile environments’ is now the name of the game and the Immigration Bill, is part and parcel of this. Landlords are to be the new border control as they seek to establish migrant’s residency status. Civil servants in the DVLA will also become border control officials as new powers are given to check driving licence applicants’ immigration status. Other ways of creating this ‘hostile environment’ and make life as difficult as possible for migrants is to restrict access to the banking system and crucially restrictions are to be imposed on using the National Health Service. Immigration Minister Mark Harper said: “The Immigration Bill will stop migrants using public services to which they are not entitled, reduce the pull factors which encourage people to come to the UK and remove people who should not be here.” This statement beggars belief. Don’t just take my word for it. Research undertaken by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) found that migrants are net contributors to a country. We’ve always known that the NHS that is held up by migrant labour in the wards and in the operating theatres. Unite health workers and others have already said that they aren’t going to be border guards and we will support them. Restricting access to our health provisions is not only morally wrong it is also pretty stupid. Imagine the scenario. Scare someone who falls ill and has an infectious disease – TB say. Instead of being treated and if necessary isolated the disease will spread Who would care about so called ‘health tourism’ then? As Dr Kailash Chand wrote in a recent piece for the Guardian we need to listen to health professionals not be spellbound by tabloid headlines: “Denying healthcare to people who need it – including pregnant women, survivors of torture and people with communicable diseases – is both inhumane and unpragmatic. It also contravenes our professional codes of conduct. Ministers who refuse to argue the case calmly on the facts, and instead sell the pass to the fear, will inevitably create public services which can only operate on the basis of checks that result in a divisive system.” The Bill is back in the House of Commons for its second reading on tomorrow. We want as a country to go forward and not backwards to days we thought we’d left behind. The Labour frontbench should oppose this latest attempt at fermenting division which will be the inevitable consequence of Theresa May’s and Lynton Crosby ‘s wish to create ‘hostile environments’ for migrants. Related posts: 1. What Blue Labour should say about immigration 2. A growing economy needs immigration 3. Don’t cut immigration checks, Yvette Cooper warns Theresa May 4. Tory Minister blaming problems on migrants – same old Nasty Party 5. Tory MP gives up communicating with constituents over NHS YARPP Latest * Featured A “hard lesson” for George Osborne A “hard lesson” for George Osborne By Tom Blenkinsop In 2011 George Osborne proclaimed that “We have already asked the British people for what is needed, and today we do not need to ask for more.” Yet today, in 2014 on the feast of the epiphany no-less, George Osborne commands that this will be “A year of hard truths”. Of course Osborne will no doubt wish to forget most of the “hard truths” of 2013. A year which saw the Conservative dominated Coalition Government accrue more UK state debt […] Read more → * News We’re throwing you a party (and it’s a celebration) We’re throwing you a party (and it’s a celebration) By Mark Ferguson The days after New Year are rarely a fun time. The weather is grim, many of you will have returned to work, the Christmas tree is about to be taken away and there are no bank holidays on the horizon. You’re probably not looking forward to this week. So to blow away the cobwebs, we’ve decided to throw you a party. And it’s a celebration, because on Thursday January 9th, LabourList is five years old. LabourList hasn’t always had an […] Read more → * News Lib Dems reveal Hung Parliament plans – in bizarre Buzzfeed post… Lib Dems reveal Hung Parliament plans – in bizarre Buzzfeed post… The Lib Dems have been understandably coy about what they might do if there were an unprecedented second successive hung parliament. One assumption might be that the yellows would stick to what they did last time – supporting the largest party – although assuming that the current Lib Dem leaderships will be consistent is a questionable judgement. And then there’s the small matter of what “largest party” means – is that seats or voteshare? But some small shred of clarity […] Read more → * Comment After the water recedes – a long-term approach to flood risk After the water recedes – a long-term approach to flood risk By Andrew Pakes Amongst its beauty nature has a devastating ability to prove its dominance over human activity. No-one should doubt the terrible damage that flooding does. Rushing to deal with flood warnings, the sandbagging, the high-water mark and the long, slow process of putting homes and communities back together. Flooding poses a stark dilemma to governments about dealing with immediate devastation and responding to long-term risk. Exactly two years ago the government published its first ever Climate Change Risk Assessment as mandated […] Read more → * Featured Labour voters want to talk about immigration – so why don’t we? Labour voters want to talk about immigration – so why don’t we? By Mark Ferguson There’s a strange fiction that abounds in the country that Labour doesn’t want to talk about immigration. Well, actually, it’s only half a fiction. It’s certainly not the Labour leadership who are afraid of talking about immigration. On the contrary, in the past they party leadership has been more than happy to talk chapter and verse about immigration. About how “tough” they are. About what arbitrary limit they might seek to place upon something as unknowable as immigration (which, quixotically, […] Read more → ← previous next → LabourList * Home * About * Comments policy * Contact * Donate * Legal search: search...___________ Go © All content is the copyright of LabourList but we give permission for its use, unless otherwise stated. The views expressed are those of the individual contributors and not necessarily those of LabourList. § #publisher Politics RSS feed David Cameron RSS feed Liberal Democrats RSS feed UK news RSS feed Immigration and asylum RSS feed Society RSS feed Benefits RSS feed World news RSS feed European Union RSS feed Europe RSS feed Turn autoplay off Turn autoplay on Please activate cookies in order to turn autoplay off * Jump to content [s] * Jump to comments [c] * Jump to site navigation [0] * Jump to search [4] * Terms and conditions [8] Edition: UK US AU * Your activity * Email subscriptions * Account details * Linked services Profile Mobile About us * About us, * Contact us * Press office * Guardian Print Centre * Guardian readers' editor * Observer readers' editor * Terms of service * Privacy policy * Advertising guide * Digital archive * Digital edition * Guardian Weekly * Buy Guardian and Observer photos Today's paper * Main section * G2 features * Comment and debate * Editorials, letters and corrections * Obituaries * Other lives * Sport * MediaGuardian * Subscribe Subscribe The Guardian home ____________________ Search * News * Sport * Comment * Culture * Business * Money * Life & style * Travel * Environment * Tech * TV * Video * Dating * Offers * Jobs * News * Politics * David Cameron EU migrants: David Cameron sets out more benefit restrictions Plan is sensible and reasonable, say Lib Dems amid move to avert influx from Romania and Bulgaria * Share * Tweet this * * [pin_it_button.png] * * Email * Patrick Wintour, political editor * * The Guardian, Wednesday 27 November 2013 Jump to comments (…) David Cameron David Cameron blamed 'monumental' mishandling of the issue by the previous Labour government. Photograph: Murdo MacLeod David Cameron made a fresh effort to assuage public concern about a wave of migration from Bulgaria and Romania on Tuesday when he announced a series of benefit restrictions on all EU migrant workers, including a ban on access to housing benefit for all new arrivals and a three-month ban before jobseeker's allowance can be claimed. Saying he shared the deep concerns of many in Britain at the EU's requirement to lift transitional controls on Romanians and Bulgarians in January, he blamed "monumental" mishandling of the issue by the previous Labour government. The package of restrictions announced late Tuesday was backed by the Tories' coalition partners, the Liberal Democrats, as sensible and reasonable. The lifting in January of transitional controls on Bulgarians and Romanians entering the UK has prompted anxiety about the numbers likely to come and opinion polls showing that most Britons want migrants from the two countries barred from working. In the package, Cameron announced: • No newly arrived EU jobseekers will be able to claim housing benefit. • No EU migrant will be entitled to out-of-work benefits for the first three months. In line with a previous announcement, no EU migrant from January will be able to claim jobseeker's allowance (JSA) for more than a maximum of six months unless they can prove that they have a genuine prospect of employment. • A new minimum earnings threshold will be introduced before benefits such as income support can be claimed. • Any EU national sleeping rough or begging will be deported and barred from re-entry for 12 months "unless they can prove they have a proper reason to be here, such as a job". He also announced a fourfold increase in the fine for employers failing to pay the minimum wage, to £20,000, although critics have claimed the problem lies in lack of enforcement rather than the level of the fine. The package comes on top of proposals in the immigration bill to require EU migrants to pay for the use of the NHS. The issue of free movement of workers in the EU, a cardinal principle of the European Union's single market, is likely to dominate the European parliament elections in the summer. Downing Street is confident that its own package of restrictions announced Tuesday does not fall foul of EU law, a view supported by the pro-European Nick Clegg. The deputy prime minister said: "These are sensible and reasonable reforms to ensure that the right to work does not automatically mean the right to claim. Other countries in the EU already have similar policies and are considering the case for going further. Unfettered access to benefits across member states simply does not exist." Some Tory MPs are unlikely be satisfied with the package. A group of 40 Tory backbenchers are already calling for the immigration bill, currently in the Commons, to be toughened up so that the existing transitional controls on Romanians and Bulgarians are retained until 2018, a move that would put the UK at loggerheads with the European Union. Cameron also called for a wider settlement on the free movement of workers, an issue that is bound to feature in any Conservative renegotiation of British EU membership. In an article for the Financial Times, Cameron writes: "We need to face the fact that free movement has become a trigger for vast population movements caused by huge disparities in income. That is extracting talent out of countries that need to retain their best people and placing pressure on communities. "It is time for a new settlement which recognises that free movement is a central principle of the EU, but it cannot be a completely unqualified one. "We are not the only country to see free movement as a qualified right: interior ministers from Austria, Germany and the Netherlands have also said this to the commission." He also condemned Labour's "monumental mistake" in failing to control immigration from Eastern Europe as he spelled out new measures to stop EU citizens coming here to live off benefits. He said it had been a catastrophic failure on Labour's part not to impose transitional controls on new EU members in 2004, a failure that had led to a surge in immigration, with one million people from central and Eastern Europe now living in the UK. Yvette Cooper, the shadow home secretary acknowledged at the weekend that Labour had allowed immigration to grow too far and too fast. Cameron writes: "In 2004, the Labour government made the decision that the UK should opt out completely of transitional controls on the new EU member states. They had the right to impose a seven-year ban before new citizens could come and work here, but – almost alone in Europe – Labour refused it. That was a monumental mistake," he said. The PM said Labour made matters worse by failing to learn any lessons when Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU in 2007. "That was the moment to address difficult questions about when to allow new entrants full access to each others' labour markets – but the Labour government ducked these questions. That is why this government extended transitional controls on Bulgaria and Romania from five to the maximum seven years," he said. Cameron also said he would like to like the EU to tackle long term how it prevented "fresh surges of immigration in future when countries join the EU". The big concern is Turkey. He said: "One would be to require a new country to reach a certain share of average EU GDP per head before full free movement was allowed. Individual member states could be freed to impose a cap if their inflow from the EU reached a certain number in a single year," he said. The number of EU migrants claiming jobseekers allowance in February 2013 was estimated at 60 100, according to government statistics. Daily Email close Sign up for the Guardian Today Our editors' picks for the day's top news and commentary delivered to your inbox each morning. Sign up for the daily email * Print this Print this * Share * Contact us Send to a friend Close this popup Sender's name ____________________ Recipient's email address ____________________ Send Your IP address will be logged Share Close this popup Short link for this page: http://gu.com/p/3kym3 * StumbleUpon * reddit * Tumblr * Digg * LinkedIn * Google Bookmarks * del.icio.us * livejournal * Facebook * Twitter Contact us Close this popup * Contact the Politics editor politics@theguardian.com * Report errors or inaccuracies: reader@theguardian.com * Letters for publication should be sent to: letters@theguardian.com * If you need help using the site: userhelp@theguardian.com * Call the main Guardian and Observer switchboard: +44 (0)20 3353 2000 * + Advertising guide + License/buy our content Article history About this article Close this popup EU migrants: David Cameron sets out more benefit restrictions This article appeared on p4 of the Main section section of the Guardian on Wednesday 27 November 2013. It was published on the Guardian website at 09.35 GMT on Wednesday 27 November 2013. It was last modified at 14.01 GMT on Tuesday 3 December 2013. It was first published at 00.21 GMT on Wednesday 27 November 2013. Politics * David Cameron · * Liberal Democrats UK news * Immigration and asylum Society * Benefits World news * European Union · * Europe More news * More on this story * Romanians bulgarians new questions difficult benefits EU migrants face 100 new questions to make it harder to obtain benefits The new habitual residence test is being rushed out before transitional controls on Romanians and Bulgarians are lifted * Net migration to UK jumps by 15,000 in a year to 182,000 * Nick Clegg attacks EU commissioner over 'nasty country' comment * Cameron panicking over Romanian and Bulgarian workers, says Labour * We need to talk about immigration, just not in this way * Benefit restrictions on EU migrants: will they work? * Share * Tweet this * * * Email Comments Click here to join the discussion. We can't load the discussion on theguardian.com because you don't have JavaScript enabled. 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All rights reserved. * Share * Tweet this * * Quantcast #Daily Express UK RSS Feed Daily Express Search [p?c1=2&c2=12961652&cv=2.0&cj=1] Express. Home of the Daily and Sunday Express. express_logo ____________________ (BUTTON) * Find us on Facebook * Follow us on Twitter * Check us on Google+ * Subscribe to our rss feed Sign in / Register Daily Horoscope Our Apps Our Paper Paper Archive Weather 12° London, UK * HOME * News * Sport * Comment * Finance * Entertainment * Life & Style * Fun * Pictures * UK * World * Showbiz * Royal * Weird * Health * Science & Tech * Nature * Property * Retirement * Scotland * Sunday * WWI * Home * News * UK * 98% demand a ban on new migrants as thousands support our Crusade 98% demand a ban on new migrants as thousands support our Crusade THE Crusade launched by the Daily Express yesterday to prevent a new surge of European immigration to Britain has already won massive support. By: Alison Little Published: Fri, November 1, 2013 Tweet 229Comments The Express 039 petition to prevent a new surge of EU immigration has already won huge support The Express' petition to prevent a new surge of EU immigration has already won huge support [TIM CLARKE] CLICK HERE TO SIGN OUR PETITION NOW More than 12,000 people have already signed our petition calling on the Government to keep controls on Bulgarian and Romanian workers coming here. Our telephone switchboard and website were also inundated with expressions of support. And in a further indication of the strength of public opposition to large-scale immigration, 98 per cent of readers taking part in a snap Daily Express phone poll agreed that Britain “should close its borders to ALL new migrants”. Strict controls on EU migrants are due to lapse at midnight on December 31. Prime Minister David Cameron says that we are obliged like other European Union member states to lift these restrictions. They were imposed when Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU in 2007 and were designed to put a strict limit on their citizens’ rights to work here. David Cameron says the UK is obliged to lift the restrictions [PA] But campaigners estimate that as many as 70,000 a year could move here from the two countries once the controls are lifted. Our petition urges Mr Cameron to defy the EU and insist that Britain will keep the restrictions in place. Yesterday, the Prime Minister’s official spokesman indicated that although Mr Cameron firmly believed it was right to put the controls in place in 2007, he did not see any scope for extending them beyond the New Year deadline. The spokesman said: “They are transitional controls and they do come to an end.” Stressing the Government had acted to reduce the pressures of immigration, he added: “The Prime Minster would say that more widely we need to bring net migration down. And we have a policy as a Government of doing that.” EU, Immigration, Petition, Daily Express, Crusade, Romania, Bulgaria, David Cameron, Coalition Government, UK, Full, British workers Nick Clegg was challenged over the Express' campaign on his weekly radio show [GETTY] Related articles * We've been here before and we know how this EU story will end, it is time to say NO * Roma surge threatens to add to estimated 200,000 population already in UK * Eastern European beggars spoiling London's smartest addresses * Join our Crusade today... stop new EU migrants flooding in to Britain * Thousands call Nick Clegg's LBC radio show to back Daily Express petition on EU migration I am absolutely 100 per cent behind the Daily Express campaign. It ties in entirely with my Bill Tory MP Peter Bone Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg was yesterday challenged over our campaign during his weekly LBC 97.3 Radio phone-in show. A string of callers backed the Daily Express on immigration. One caller to Mr Clegg’s show asked: “What is the Government actually going to do about immigration? “Could we have a straight answer as to why the loophole hasn’t been closed down, why the numbers have not been reduced, what is actually going on? What are Brussels not allowing you to do?” The europhile Lib Dem leader said he was aware of people’s concerns but suggested they were misplaced. He claimed the scale of Romanian and Bulgarian arrivals would be nowhere near the massive numbers of eastern Europeans who came when their countries joined the EU in 2004, and the Labour government put no limits in place. Nick Ferrari, host of the “Call Clegg” phone-on show, then directly challenged the Deputy PM on air about our Crusade. Mr Clegg insisted the Government had cut net immigration by about a third and made some “very, very significant changes” to the system. EU, Immigration, Petition, Daily Express, Crusade, Romania, Bulgaria, David Cameron, Coalition Government, UK, Full, British workers People are backing our campaign to halt the flood of eastern European migrants [TIM CLARKE] He added: “What I want to see is an immigration system that means that we are open to people that come to this country, that want to help out and want to work, and want to pay their taxes, want to play by the rules. “Our public services depend on people coming to this country. The NHS would collapse overnight if we simply pulled up the drawbridge, and we should continue to give British citizens the freedom to go, as they do actually in very large numbers, to live elsewhere. “So you can’t suddenly just put up a barrier but it’s got to be done in a way which is administratively competent and that people have confidence in.” Mr Ferrari pressed Mr Clegg on whether he agreed with estimates that up to 70,000 Romanians and Bulgarians a year would flood into Britain. The Deputy PM said he did not know and that the Government had no intention of repeating Labour’s mistake of issuing inaccurate forecasts. He conceded: “I don’t want to deny people’s concern. It’s palpable. A lot of people have raised it with me. “And I totally understand, having been given these, as it turned out to be misleading estimates which underestimated the number of people who came here from central and eastern Europe (in 2004). “We shouldn’t automatically assume that it’s going to be exactly the same scale (as 2004), not least because there are a number of Bulgarian and Romanian communities, large communities, in other parts of the EU. That often suggests that is where people would tend to go. But of course we’re going to keep a very close eye on this.” Later Mr Ferrari, who had hosted another show before the Call Clegg programme, told the Daily Express 95 per cent of people contacting him yesterday had backed our Crusade. He said: “The moment we talked about it, the calls started flooding in. People are concerned about the sheer level of migration.” Tory MP Peter Bone’s Private Member’s Bill calling for the restrictions on Bulgarian and Romanian immigration to remain in force, is due for its Second Reading on November 29. Mr Bone said yesterday: “I am absolutely 100 per cent behind the Daily Express campaign. It ties in entirely with my Bill. “Once again the Daily Express is speaking for the British people.” CLICK HERE TO SIGN OUR PETITION NOW Tweet Share this Print Email 229Comments Add Your Comment Your Name: __________________________________ Comment: 1000 characters remaining ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ (BUTTON) Post Comment Comments (229) realtalk 8:50am on Friday, 22nd November 2013 Report This Comment clegg...what a joke. nhs would collapse! lmao. there are doctors dentists nurses pharmacists who studied in england , have huge debts doing so who cannot get jobs in england! yet immigrants come, get free education (grants and funding) and then take the very same jobs. talk of taxing these immigrants helping the uk...how about comparing what the contribute in taxes to what they cost the tax man in benefits, teaching them how to claim benefits, and not to spit etc etc.. how about you take care of the british people for once rather than immigrants. i agree there are immigrants who can help n better the UK, but this is a minority. maybe spend more time improving the uk, and once it is in a better place than the recession-ridden, EU-controlled and generally socially n financially fragile state it is in now....then maybe allow net positive immigration. nothingfails 1:30pm on Tuesday, 5th November 2013 Report This Comment @ExpatPerth if the english dont like the EU, how about england exits the EU, free trade & free movement for the english is dropped, duty for english goods & paid visa are introduced, english companies are not allowed to eastern european states to exploit the local eastern european population, as they do now!? would be fair enough, would it be not! bulgarians have always been too tolerant and have accepted any other peoples who have come, including the gypsies. gypsies cannot be integrated. the english would have not been able to integrate them either, just like religious extremists cannot be integrated. bulgarians have been a subject of genocide for thousands of years, too. in history england has worked against bulgarians which led to bulgarians' greatest national catastrophy - bulgarians lost more than half of their ethnic lands for england supported bulgaria's enemies. prevent straight access to social security but do not prevent access to work for good ones, in the name of LOVE nothingfails 1:08pm on Tuesday, 5th November 2013 Report This Comment UK media present a false image of bulgarians manipulating masses by fear. the truth is england thanks to good circumstances has exploited half the planet and has become rich this way. having controlled other lands, england has always received people from various places. 10 000 000 immigrants in the UK from 3d world places, who sit on social benefits. and many british are unhappy in the UK and by the thousands leave to go live else, including bulgaria. bulgarians (and romanians) are not the gypsies you present. Bulgarians are the first people who lived in south east europe since over 7 000 yaers ago, known as pelasgi, thraki, makedoni, moesi, gaethi, scythi, sklaveni (slavs) and bolgari/ bogari, who have given the world orpheus, alexander the great, spartacus, many eastern roman emperos, the cyrillic alphabet, the man who created the first el. computer in the world - john atanasoff. prevent straight access to social security but do not prevent access to work for good ones.do not be EVIL ExpatPerth 9:46pm on Sunday, 3rd November 2013 Report This Comment When it comes to standing up to the EU Cameron has the courage of a sewer rat. He will give what little independence over to the EU and Britain will be no more that another state in the Greater German Empire that is the EU glowsred 8:46pm on Sunday, 3rd November 2013 Report This Comment http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10423070/Press-row-PM-faces-qu estions-over-link-to-charity.html we now have proof from Cameron himself that he is a pro EU socialist, he is a patron of a Common Purpose organisation and was a founding member of Unite Against Fascism. Share Your Opinion? 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"Daily Express" is a registered trademark. All rights reserved. Quantcast #alternate publisher HuffPost Search Non-EU Migrant Cap Is Stifling UK's Economic Growth And Making Us Look Protectionist, Say Leaders Non-EU Migrant Cap Is Stifling UK's Economic Growth And Making Us Look Protectionist, Say Leaders HuffPost's QuickRead... Loading... HuffPost's QuickRead... 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Looking Back on Our Unplugging Challenge + Emily Verdouw Emily Verdouw : We Need to Stop Validating a Woman's Place in Society by How Beautiful She Is + Nadia Tolokonnikova Nadia Tolokonnikova : Help the Women Being Tortured in Russian Prisons + Tom Walters Tom Walters : The Help to Buy Con Helps No-One View all featured blog posts * Third Metric * Pictures Of The Day * Premier League * Women * Entrepreneurs * Young Talent * Travel * Health * Impact * Say No To January Charlie Thomas Charlie Thomas Become a fan charlie.thomas@huffingtonpost.com Non-EU Migrant Cap Is Stifling UK's Economic Growth And Making Us Look Protectionist, Say Leaders Posted: 04/02/2013 11:22 GMT | Updated: 04/02/2013 11:22 GMT reddit stumble Share on Google+ non-eu migrant workers The government's migrant cap is stifling off an economic recovery, according to business experts, especially in tech hubs like the Silicon Roundabout Get UK Newsletters: Enter email_________ Subscribe Follow: Immigration, Business News, Economic Recovery, UK Politics, Business, Foreign Workers, Immigration Cap, Immigration Reform, Non Eu Migrant Workers, Overseas Workers, UK Economy, UK News The government's cap on non-EU migrant workers will stifle the growth of many British businesses and limit our export exposure into emerging markets, according to the country's top business leaders. Following on from the Home Office's decision to drop the net number of inward migrants into Britain from 280,000 to 100,000, British commerce leaders have openly criticised the government – saying the reduction sends out a message that Britain is closed for business. "We accept that a poorly informed public debate about immigration has made migration an electoral issue that politicians feel bound to respond to," John Wastnage, policy adviser at the British Chambers of Commerce, told the Huffington Post UK. "But employers would like politicians to show some leadership in explaining that skilled workers are good for the UK, particularly at a time when the country needs to compete as effectively as possible in the global market." Neil Carberry, the Confederation of British Industries’ director for employment and skills, agreed, adding that what employers waned was need a system that doesn't just control migration but attracts the skilled workers the economy needs, who would otherwise go to our competitors. He added that the policy was in danger of "creating a long lasting, negative perception of Britain as a place to do business". "Getting a firm grip on this has to be the top priority for ministers. The net-migration target is unlikely to be met by 2015, despite ongoing reforms," Carberry said. "We are concerned that yet more short-term changes to hit this political goal risks holding back growth, deterring investment and damaging universities. Businesses need policy stability above all." In London, the issue is particularly hitting small and medium sized businesses, who often need the skills of non-EU migrants to fill a gap which homegrown talent can't. Colin Stanbridge, chief executive of the London Chamber Of Commerce, told HuffPost UK more than half of the capital’s smallest firms, those with 1-19 employees have either employed non-EU migrant workers in the last five years or have considered doing so. "Often businesses take on staff for language skills or knowledge of particular markets that just doesn't exist in the home workforce. Smaller businesses need to be able to access these types of skills to grow and expand and drive the growth the UK badly needs," he explained. "The levels of unskilled non-EU migration have been negligible for some time now, meaning that they are limited to restricting skilled and highly-skilled non-EU migration – the very sort that businesses are looking for. "It costs a business six times more to employ a non-EU migrant that a domestic worker – in other words, they are doing it because they are accessing a different skill set, unobtainable in the domestic market. How many Britons have a significant cultural and industrial knowledge of China or India for example?" Stanbridge also said other restrictions on migrants were needlessly putting them off coming to the UK, including: * Tourists wishing to travel to the UK and on to other European cites, have to fill out two application forms, a large proportion of which are identical. The applicants passport is also retained for the duration of the process * The time taken to process applications is excessive (while UKBA in China now have this down to five days on average, that is certainly not the case elsewhere) * The time it takes for UK companies to apply for a sponsor's licence is excessive * Many questions on the forms are overly intrusive * Often applications are refused on the basis of misunderstandings that could be addressed with a change of attitude * The language barrier facing applicants * Stronger restrictions on T1 migrants (entrepreneurs) * The abolition of the post-study work visa for students is having a massive impact on the numbers applying to British Universities In a recent interview with the BBC, Dan Crow, chief technology officer at Songkick, said the net migration cap would hugely affect the UK's tech industry - the exact industry the government was trying to boost. "The high tech companies around Silicon Roundabout are really affected by the immigration cap; we thrive on having really skilled workers, and our ability to grow, expand and provide new jobs in this area is very much affected by our ability to get those skilled workers," said Crow. "If we're really going to grow Silicon Roundabout into something that is world-beating and that has a major effect on the economy, we need the best and the brightest from around the world." Many of the business leaders we spoke to also pointed out that limiting non –EU workers would slow down the UK's economic recovery; something which was championed at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland earlier in January. Natarajan Chandrasekaran, the chief executive of Tata Consulting Services, said improving labour mobility would help the UK's economy to recover faster. He added that his company would be in a 'unique position' to help UK companies do this, if only his staff could get into the country. "We want to be able to help our clients but need more flexibility of labour," he said. His staff were not interested in emigrating to the UK, he insisted, they just wanted to come over, work, and then leave. Proponents of the cap say by limiting the net migration from skilled non-EU workers we will encourage businesses to train up more home grown staff – helping to boost the economy and companies' worth. "Businesses will always need to draw on talents from other countries, but more can be done to ensure that UK workers are equipped to fill skills gaps rather than forcing employers to recruit from overseas," acceded Wastnage, but he believes the migrant cap isn't the way to accomplish that task. "Rather than this protectionist policy, which reduces the UK's ability to compete in the world, we would like supply-side reforms to improve the skills of the domestic workforce so that UK businesses can find the brightest and the best for their sector among UK workers," he offered. "Business people tell us that they would like a more responsive skills system to ensure that the domestic labour market can better meet their needs." Some businesses are already seeking to find loopholes - so-called intra-company transfers allow businesses to move overseas staff into the UK without them falling into the immigration quota - the Migration Advisory Committee said in February 2012 as many 30,000 migrants have entered Britain using this policy. And if loopholes can't be found, our neighbouring EU countries are only too ready to offer their services. Laurent Fabius, the French foreign secretary, told listeners to radio station France Info, said that his country would "dérouler le tapis rouge" (roll out the red carpet), to businesses before prime minister David Cameron had even finished his speech. The red carpet reference was a pertinent dig at Cameron, who used precisely the same term last year in reference to French businessmen and the new 75% tax which has been proposed by French president Francois Hollande. HuffPost UK contacted the Home Office for comment on the issue; a UKBA spokesman said: "There is no incompatibility between economic growth and controlling migration - our reformed, more selective immigration system can achieve both. "The UK is open for business to the brightest and best migrants and we want to ensure we remain an attractive destination for global talent." * Contribute to this Story: * Send us a tip * Send us a photo or video * Suggest a correction FOLLOW UK Like [DEL: :DEL] 69k Enter email_________ Subscribe Related News On Huffington Post: Immigration: Capping Numbers Will Damage Businesses, LCCI Says Immigration: More Foreign Workers From Outside EU Banned In UK London Needs Migrants Immigration: Capping Numbers Will Damage Businesses, LCCI Says The London economy is far more reliant on overseas workers than many in government think, according to a report by the London Chamber of Commerce... Foreign Worker Ban Immigration: More Foreign Workers From Outside EU Banned In UK Foreign workers from outside the European Union will be banned from coming to the UK to work as secondary school biology teachers, vets and orchestral... Around the Web: BBC News - Cut non-EU migrant workers by up to 25%, ministers told Non-EU migrant workers cut by fifth but cap of 21,700 comes with a ... Non-EU immigration linked to unemployment, says report | UK news ... Migrant workers: Taking our jobs - or not? | The Migration Observatory UK's visa system for Chinese workers like 'pulling teeth', says EEF If we want to limit immigration, why punish Chinese tourists? 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View all RSS feeds * 1. 2. 3. uk-london24 ‘Jealous’ friend threw acid over Naomi Oni, court hears Teen Samuel Boon who died on Morocco trek was ‘taking bed-wetting medication’ London’s black cabs through the years as Nissan launches new Hackney Carriage - PICTURES More News at London24.com Search The Huffington Post_____ Search * Advertise | * * Make HuffPost your Home Page | * RSS | * Careers | * FAQ * User Agreement | * Privacy | * Cookie Policy | * Comment Policy | * About Us | * About Our Ads | * Contact Us * "The Huffington Post UK" is provided by AOL (UK) Limited. © 2014 AOL (UK) Limited its affiliates and licensors * Part of HPMG News Quantcast HuffPost Lightbox #The Spectator » Feed The Spectator » Comments Feed The Spectator » I got a call from Jeremy Hunt about health tourism — but he still doesn't get it Comments Feed IFRAME: //www.googletagmanager.com/ns.html?id=GTM-J2ZF Subscriber login Login with your Web ID ____________________ Submit [ajax-loader.gif] Can't find your Web ID? Click here Subscribe from just £1 a week × * Classifieds * Events * Shop * Plus * Subscribe [ADTECH;loc=300] The Spectator ____________________ Go * Home * Coffee House * Blogs * The Week * Columnists * Features * Books * Arts * Life * Spectator Life * Podcast * Archive I got a call from Jeremy Hunt about health tourism — but he still doesn't get it The government's solutions will fail because it can't grasp the scale of the problem, says our NHS whistleblower 24 Comments J. Meirion Thomas 2 November 2013 JM On Monday morning, Jeremy Hunt’s diary secretary rang me to arrange a time for me to speak to the Secretary of State over the telephone. I had already received an email from his special adviser the previous week, saying, ‘The two points which the independent research make clear are central to what you’ve been saying for a long time; namely that health tourism is a huge problem with a substantial cost to the NHS and the current system is an unfair burden on frontline staff.’ When Jeremy rang, he was charming, full of praise, and eager to tackle the issue of health tourism — the exploitation of the NHS by ineligible, non-tax contributing patients. Yet for all the Health Secretary’s good intentions, I fear his department is failing to grasp the nettle. The government has not recognised the extent of the problem, so its solutions are inadequate. When I first raised this issue in The Spectator, I quoted from the Department of Health’s website section on ‘Eligibility for free hospital treatment under the NHS’, to show how open to abuse the rules and regulations governing free access to NHS care are. (Strangely enough, the page was removed and archived soon after my article was published.) On the back of my article, the government employed a company called Creative Research to investigate the health tourism problem. It too found that the eligibility criteria for free NHS care were porous, ineffective and difficult to enforce, and that any determined non-resident can breach them. Nevertheless, Creative Research has grossly underestimated the extent of the problem. Let’s first remind ourselves of the strict definition of a health tourist. It’s someone who arrives in the UK with a pre-existing illness whose purpose is to access free NHS care. (The term does not apply to visitors who suffer accidental or incidental illnesses during their stay, nor to asylum seekers or disadvantaged migrants who are entitled to ‘Good Samaritan’ NHS care.) The claim by Creative Research that this activity costs between £70 million and £300 million cannot possibly be correct. Where is the data to confirm that estimate? I still maintain that the cost of this component of the problem, as defined, is in billions, not millions. For example, the cost of treating expatriates who have lived abroad for decades and returned for treatment has not been included. Inline sub2 Creative Research is a market research company. It has little financial or commercial expertise. Its website states that it depends on freelance researchers to deal with commissions. It lists 32 examples of previous projects, only three of which are connected with health matters. The rest are client-based satisfaction surveys based on interviews and relating to museum attendance, water companies and the RSPB. The Department of Health response to the Morecambe Bay scandal was to commission a report from Grant Thornton, a multi-national management consultancy with almost inexhaustible investigative potential. Is it too harsh to conclude from this enormous discrepancy in investigative skill that the Department of Health does not wish to investigate the true cost of health tourism? ‘How did your meeting with the lobbyists go?’ ‘How did your meeting with the lobbyists go?’ In the next few weeks, in an attempt to reduce the cost of health tourism, the government will announce new rules about who can access NHS care. There is a proposal for an annual health levy or surcharge set at £150 for foreign students and at £200 for other temporary migrants. The levy will apparently generate £1.9 billion over a ten-year period, based on approximately 490,000 applicants who would be required to pay. This amounts to the cheapest travel/health insurance on the planet! All that students and temporary migrants have to do is cough up £150 or £200 and they will be fully entitled to unlimited free health care. Besides, don’t the geniuses who thought up this plan realise that, apart from a few students who exploit the system, most health tourists come on a visitor’s visa, so would be exempt even from this minimal charge? Why shouldn’t students and temporary migrants be required to have health insurance, as is necessary for any British citizen studying or working abroad? And how is the levy going to work? If the student is on a three-year course, would the outlay charge be £450 plus the cost of the visa? If the same student is bringing his/her spouse and three children, then would the outlay charge for three years be £2,250 plus the cost of five visas? Does this fit with the government’s idea of encouraging students to come to UK because they bring us so much revenue? In any event, access to the NHS is based on residency, not contribution. The immigration minister Mark Harper has said that ‘Payment of the surcharge will ensure that most NHS services would then be free for migrant use.’ In a BBC interview, Jeremy Hunt said, ‘The levy could be set higher and might exclude certain treatments like IVF, cosmetic surgery, renal dialysis, transplantation and pre-existing pregnancies.’ That should definitely be the case — and let’s hope this idea will not become another coalition casualty. Hunt’s other measure is to appoint a director of cost recovery. It has been assessed that £500 million per year could be saved through the health levy, by deterring health tourists, and finally by recovering costs from chargeable patients — meaning those who have received treatment but are deemed to have been ineligible for free NHS care. Invoices for this category of patient are already raised; but currently only 20 per cent are paid. If proper entitlement controls were in place, though, surely this debt collector role would be unnecessary? Health tourists need to be identified and excluded from the NHS. But there is no method for enforcing payment. It’s fraud without penalty. Any charge made is at the NHS tariff, which is about 25 per cent of the equivalent cost in a private UK hospital. The only permanent solution is a method of personal identification to prove entitlement to free NHS care, as you can find in all other countries with health systems equivalent to our own. Health tourists come to the UK because we let them. This article first appeared in the print edition of The Spectator magazine, dated 2 November 2013 Tags: Health, health tourism, Jeremy Hunt, migration, NHS __________________________________________________________________ Our best-ever offer! 1. A year’s subscription to the print magazine. 2. Full digital access — online and apps. 3. A bottle of champagne. All for just £69.99. Join us now. Cover_040113_Issue * Mynydd “The only permanent solution is a method of personal identification to prove entitlement” It’s called an ‘ID card’, come on just say it, an ‘ID card’ is the answer. + Jackthesmilingblack Bit rich a Brit national resident abroad can`t get NHS treatment after five years away. o Tom M Quite so Jack. The Brit returning would have an NI number. To me that means that you are entitled to health care anytime. Why wouldn’t the country of your birth’s health system look after you? Where else would you go? As far as entitlement goes compare someone who has been abroad working with someone living on benefits all their lives. # Jackthesmilingblack A couple of rhetorical questions: Why wouldn’t the country of your birth’s health system look after you? Why indeed? But when you fly the coop, don`t leave one foot in UK. Where else would you go? I was treated under the Japanese health service from Day 1. Jack`s comment: How can you betray a country that`s already betrayed you! Jack, Japan Alps # Toby Esterházy A bit of a faux anger. An expat would be eligible, provided that he lives in this said Country, and not fully tanned-up, speaking with a strange accent and only coming here just for the holidays. @ Tom M Well if he lives in this country whether an expat or not he would be eligible. I agree about the holidays makers but how about a British citizen, born and grew up in the UK and worked for say 20 years abroad. Returned to the UK in their 40s. Are we saying that they should be treated exactly the same someone who fell of a lorry at Dover? * zanzamander If we’re talking about non EU legal immigrants only than the solution is simple, I’m surprised no one’s thought about it and that is compulsory insurance. Everyone who enters the UK must have a valid insurance certificate purchased via our overseas embassies which must be attached to the passport and shown to the immigration officer. No insurance, no entry. Why is it that muggins here has to fork out hundreds of pounds in insurance when going abroad but these foreigners can just waltz in here without one? + zanzamander Another idea! Charge at least £3,000 in visa to “visitors” from flea infested hell holes of this world, out of which £2,950 could go into a fund dedicated to treat these scroungers when they fall ill. And once they do fall ill here, just patch them enough to load them on to a plane back to the cesspit whence they came. + Jackthesmilingblack This would do more to shoot Britain`s international trade in the foot than any number of my “UK Trash Culture” presentations. Keep up the good work, Zan. + Tom M I wouldn’t check it at entry to the country. Just ask for it if they turn up at hospital like France (post above). “How would you like to pay? We take credit cards” Emergency treatment only if you don’t have the means. + Patricia “Everyone who enters the UK must have a valid insurance certificate purchased via our overseas embassies which must be attached to the passport and shown to the immigration officer. No insurance, no entry.” So simple – why can’t we do it ? * ohforheavensake They still don’t get it, because it’s not that big a problem. http://fullfact.org/factchecks/cost_of_health_tourism_nhs-29247 You’ll forgive me if I believe something from an impartial fact-checking site, rather than something posted in The Spectator. + Ricky Strong Well I can’t verify the credibility of full fact.org but I can tell you that I have a dear friend working very high up within the NHS who deals with very important figures and they will you that while health tourism won’t bring the NHS down it is a massive growing problem that needs stamping out. * Tom M “…the cost of treating expatriates who have lived abroad for decades and returned for treatment…” I think you need to redefine this category Meirion. I live in France and have done so for a decade. If I choose to come back to the UK for NHS treatment (in the very unlikely event that is) why shouldn’t I be entitled? As a retired person any health care costs I incur here in the French system go back to the UK in any case. That is an EU wide agreement. Broadening the point out, why shouldn’t British subjects be entitled to NHS health care at any time in their lives? Think about this. What you are saying is someone comes from Rumania next January gets a job on a building site and on day one has more right to health care than a British subject who has worked abroad for 20 years and comes back. How would this hypothetical returnee be any different to someone who born in and has always lived in Britian and never worked a day in their life? You are correct about health tourism but your definitions of entitlement are way off. The simple answer is just do as others do. No need to re-invent the wheel. In France you are either entitled, and have a “carte vitale” or you aren’t. If you aren’t you pay. How is your choice, insurance or cash. You only have a carte vitale if you are a French citizen or subject to some EU rule that allows the bills to be recovered from where you were born. Just do it right. No stupid sticking plaster fudges such as those proposed. + manonthebus Your comment strikes a chord and is an accurate example of what is now wrong with the NHS. It does not work because too few people are paying for it. This is a symptom of Britain’s declining economic rectitude caused by the extension of progressive taxation. Far too many people in Britain pay nothing throughout their lives for the services they consume and many now see this as an inalienable right. + Toby Esterházy If you had a Carte Vitale and not already a British State pensioner, you are a full member of the French system, and the French have no claim on the NHS. You are never entitled in France simply because you were a Frenchman. The French unemployed for more than 2 years and the expatriates are out of the system. If we don’t count the Italians, only the Americans would grant access of the Medicare scheme to the expatriates, but only for those already receiving an American Social Security pension and also agree to a withholding deduction of the amount normally payable. You have to draw a line somewhere. British citizenship is transmittable for at least one or two generations born abroad, both from the male and the female line, and there would be literally millions eligible. Entitlement by citizenship (jus patriae) or by birth (jus soli) or even by both is unworkable, because Spain and Portugal would then demand 100% reimbursement from the NHS for all the British expats, regardless of the length of residence. o Jackthesmilingblack This must be the “sane” guest. o Tom M If I am a pensioner and live in France I have access to the French health care system but the bills go back to the UK. The same right extends to the French (or any other EU country) in the UK. If I am an EU citizen, not a pensioner and work in France I have automatic rights to health care. If I neither work or am a pensioner then I must provide myself with full health insurance (this requirement at the moment is under review in the EU). You are wrong about the French unemployed. They always have the right to health care. You are confusing two sets of “rights”. What they won’t have is state pension rights unless they have contributed (ie worked). And the difference, unlike the UK, between Social Security and State Pension is considerable. To my original point. Health care costs money. I agree with you it has to be limited by something. Understandably few countries are going to write a blank cheque for masses of immigrants who have contributed nothing anywhere. But surely a country has an obligation to look after it’s citizens wherever they are as a “health carer of last resort”. If not who will? The problems you describe are pivoting upon the far too broad definition of a British Citizen. Personally I would have been only too glad, as a net contributor to the system for 45 years, to have had a portable entitlement that I could have any care provided where I happen to be and the bills sent to the UK. Just like any other insurance (except the government spend the money as it comes in). * Kiran Cheedella Dr Thomas you state ‘I still maintain that the cost of this component of the problem, as defined, is in billions, not millions.’ Where is your statistical evidence for this and what methods did you use to find this out? * Peter Baker I appreciate Mr Thomas’ concern for the NHS finances but he really has nothing to worry about. Health tourism does happen, but it is very rare. A group of 20 or so of my medical colleagues recently discussed the issue, and we agreed that none of us had ever seen a case. The reality is that when people are sick, they want to be seen near their home, by familiar people who speak their own language. Even within the UK people prefer their local hospital rather than a “better” one a few miles away. International travel for health care is rare. Equally importantly, all the steps suggested (charging, restricting access etc) have side effects that are much worse than the minor problem they are designed to treat. Firstly the cost of administering these systems nation -wide will be more than the revenue gained. ID cards were likely to cost £560m per year. Secondly, the international literature on restricting access to routine care is very clear, people with minor problems that could be treated just get sicker and sicker until they now need expensive emergency care that costs us even more. No one is suggesting we stop providing emergency care. Thirdly, many of these diseases will be infectious. By not allowing people access to the NHS whilst they are here, we are risking them spreading infectious diseases and harming the populations health. So in words that Mr Thomas might appreciate: Think of it like a invasive operation which is expensive and has well known harmful side effects, for a disease that may or may not even be there, and certainly isn’t causing any major symptoms. It is just bad medicine. + manonthebus Think of it another way. Your comment is unbelievably patronising and you and your 20 colleagues have not the foggiest idea of what is going on. * Rilman When we have to queue behind foreign people. who have not contributed in the slightest, to access our own NHS, something is not right. I was at an eye clinic at my local hospital just last week queuing for hours, the waiting room looked like an immigration centre. * DR ANONYMOUS Thomas doesn’t provide a shred of evidence to support his claims. For grown-up journalism, visit The Independent and The Guardian : http://tinyurl.com/p8abdu3 and http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/24/medical-tourism-gene rates-millions-nhs-health * Grah101 This article is just more self-important, weary cynicism from a perpetually dissatisfied and willful misrepresenter. If a non-entitled person incurs costs on the NHS they should be billed, and the costs recovered. A upfront deposit was never a ticket giving total free care. Does he really not get this? Subscribe to the Spectator slidein [ADTECH;loc=300] [ADTECH;loc=300;grp=[group]] ron Parliament’s very own Ron BurgundyDid Robert Halfon, the Tory MP for Harlow, get a new suit for Christmas? bit Why Bitcoin makes senseYou don’t need to be a crim to see why cryptocurrencies make sense bow It’s a stupid lie to say we’re all bisexualCosmo Landesman’s not, for starters MOST POPULAR * Read * Shared * Commented 1. Absolute moral squalor on display at a London church 2. 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Currently everyone has to give 15 days notice, but that will be increased to 28 days in England and Wales - and 70 days where there are reasonable grounds to suspect a sham wedding. Illegal immigrants will also be banned from opening bank accounts and getting driving licences as ministers launch a set of measures. Theresa May will announce the plans in the Commons today. Banks will be forced to check against a database of known immigration offenders before opening accounts for foreigners. The Home Secretary will set out plans to check an applicant’s immigration status before issuing a driving licence - and new powers to revoke those licences where immigrants are found to have overstayed. The announcements are part of a wider list of panic measures, which make up the Home Office’s Immigration Bill, to meet the Government’s target of slashing net immigration to under 100,000 by 2015. The bill will also stop migrants using the NHS, make it easier to deport foreign criminals and force private landlords to check they are not renting their property to people with no right to be in Britain. The Home Secretary wants to half the number of deportation of appeals. And she is expected to announce plans to force foreign criminals to appeal their deportation - AFTER being kicked out of the country. Other reforms will include changes designed to deter judges allowing migrants to stay in the country on human rights grounds. She wants to water down the article eight right to a family life - which she claims is being abused. A new bond system is also expected to be introduced, forcing temporary migrants like overseas students to “make a contribution” to public services to cover their stay. Immigration Minister Mark Harper said: “The Immigration Bill will stop migrants using public services to which they are not entitled, reduce the pull factors which encourage people to come to the UK and make it easier to remove people who should not be here.” But Labour said many of the new powers were already available - and accused the Government of trying to cover up their own immigration failures. Over 700 fewer foreign criminals are being deported now than under Labour. And the number of foreign criminals deported has fallen 13.5%, from 5,471 to 4,730 in the last year. Labour added that the businesses being fined for employing illegal workers has plummeted under the Coalition - from 2,269 in 2009 to 1,215 in 2012. 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Search _______________ (Search) Search Health & Science NEXT IN THIS TOPIC The Business Companies, Markets and Finance Daily, Monday to Friday More like this Talking Point Depressed lonely man by window Blue Monday: the saddest thing is the bad science Mon 6 Jan 2014 One-Minute Read Doctor's surgery GP failings revealed: maggots, dirt and medicine mix-ups Thu 12 Dec 2013 The Conversation [dementia.jpg?itok=A6tXVAVo] Dementia: G8 pledge welcome but it's up to us to stay healthy Thu 12 Dec 2013 One-Minute Read [131211-hand.jpg?itok=LcKyCNem] Bionic arm: soldier can control prosthesis with his thoughts Wed 11 Dec 2013 One-Minute Read [dementia.jpg?itok=A6tXVAVo] Dementia time bomb: funding will double in next 12 years Wed 11 Dec 2013 More on Health & Science Briefing NHS foreign care Q&A: how will government save £500m? Jeremy Hunt Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt hopes to save money by charging temporary immigrants a £200 fee LAST UPDATED AT 10:31 ON Tue 22 Oct 2013 UP TO £500m a year could be saved by reducing money spent on foreign patients using the NHS, ministers have claimed. The Department of Health today published a study showing how widely the NHS is used by people from overseas. Ministers are now consulting on the measures it will take to tackle the issue, from charging foreigners a fee for healthcare to deterring so-called 'health tourists'... What does the government currently spend? According to today's report, the government spends £2bn a year on NHS care for short-term immigrants and foreign visitors. Around £461m is spent on foreign nationals visiting the UK who should be paying for the healthcare through their own governments. However, NHS currently only recovers around £73m of this as these patients are often not processed and charged. Around £70m to £300m is believed to be spent on 'health tourists' – people who come to the UK specifically to receive free healthcare. Ministers have said that a £500m saving is a realistic target as some of the spending, such as emergency care and the treatment of infectious diseases, is unavoidable. How would the new system be administered? The government wants to introduce a surcharge for foreigners as part of the new Immigration Bill, which is being debated by Parliament today. By charging a levy of £150 for foreign students and £200 for other temporary migrants, ministers hope to generate £200m a year. They also want to identify a more efficient system to claim back costs from other countries. They plan to do this by establishing a cost recovery unit and introducing a simpler registration process to help identify patients who should be charged. By clawing back costs from other governments, generating money through the surcharge and deterring health tourists, the government hopes to save half a billion pounds. How much is £500m worth to the NHS? With an overall NHS budget of £95.6bn for 2013/14, £500m equates to around 0.5 per cent of the annual budget - equivalent to around two days' worth of spending. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has said that even if only 75 per cent of £500m was recovered, it would pay for almost 4,000 doctors or more than 8,500 nurses each year. Are the numbers correct? Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham has claimed the figures used by the government were "out of date" and that it was important to look at "the small print behind the spin". The report itself points out that estimates for health tourism are "impossible to estimate with confidence". Burnham also told the BBC that Labour would not support a situation where "doctors and nurses were being asked to work as surrogate immigration officials". · Disqus - noscript Submitted by RodC on October 22, 2013 - 10:23am. I wonder if the name of the research company (Creative Research) suggests anything about the quality of their findings? Submitted by Beth Williams on October 22, 2013 - 10:33am. Having lived in India for several years it is widely known that people visit Britain just to use our free health facilities. Quite why this scandal was not stopped years ago is a mystery. I wrote about this waste of money to Alan Johnson who at the time was Health Secretary and eventually received a curt response from a civil servant saying that it was not a problem! I hope that the incompetent fools at the Department of Health are made to hang their heads in shame now that we know how much has been wasted. Alan Johnson should apologise for his incompetent management but of couese nothing will happen. Submitted by Les Barrie on October 22, 2013 - 11:29am. Surely it is the responcibility of NHS trusts and their multitudes of administrators to ensure all foreign visitors are billed for their treatments, just another example of pen pusher incompetence. Submitted by Joni_Q on October 22, 2013 - 12:14pm. Charging £200 to every temp migrant is an invitation to use and on occassion "abuse". Afterall You dont pay for an all inclusive hotel package only to go and wine and dine elsewhere. This will be a clear invitation for health tourism. With the amount of money these politicians and their advisers suck from the public purse you would have thought they could come up with better solutions to justify their wages. Submitted by Chris Sellers on October 22, 2013 - 4:07pm. ...not a serious proposal - merely a pre-election vote - catcher! As Beth says - this has been a well-recognised problem for many years. Our politicians (and I deliberately refrain from calling them our "leaders, for such they are most certainly not) of either main party will continue to duck and dive around this issue because it is for the "too difficult" tray. Typically, none of our over-paid and cosseted civil servants seem to be able to get to grips with this problem. £200 is an absolute bargain for medical treatment at today's prices - even if a health tourist is ever asked to pay it. Think again Jeremy Hunt! Submitted by peter hobday on October 23, 2013 - 1:32pm. OK guys, you are asking good questions in the comments. Here is the answer: the doctors who run the hospitals (it's not the administrators by the way) won't agree to collect the money because it goes straight to the treasury, not to the hospital. Submitted by Squiz on October 28, 2013 - 7:30pm. so that's a million health tourists they admit to treating. every year. 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NHS NHS foreigner charge 'opens floodgates to criminal gangs' Plans to charge migrants and foreign students £200 to access the NHS will be "extraordinary attractive" to health tourists, including organised crime, doctors warn Plans to charge migrants and foreign students £200 to access the NHS will be Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt hopes to recover up to £500 million a year charging migrants and foreign students to access the NHS Photo: CHRISTOPHER PLEDGER FOR THE TELEGRAPH By Steven Swinford, Senior Political Correspondent 10:00PM GMT 29 Oct 2013 Follow Comments Comments Charging foreigners £200 to access the NHS will "open the floodgates" to criminal gangs who bring heavily pregnant women from Africa to give birth in Britain, leading doctors have warned. They said that pregnant women are routinely flown from Africa to give birth on the NHS, often to more than one child, in a practise so common it has become known in hospitals as the "Lagos shuttle". The doctors said the lack of restrictions on IVF treatment abroad mean many of the women are give birth to twins or triplets, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds to the NHS each time. They warned that the government's plans to charge migrants and foreign students staying in the UK a £200 NHS surcharge will act as a form of "insurance" and be "extraordinary attractive" to health tourists. Professor J Meirion Thomas, a cancer specialist at the Royal Marsden hospital in London, said that about 5 per cent of his patients were health tourists. Related Articles * Back to the old days of patients dying in agony 03 Nov 2013 * 300 NHS blunders so bad they should never happen in just one year 02 Sep 2013 * Jeremy Hunt: NHS risks losing support bacause of BBC-style excessive pay 28 Oct 2013 * Martina Cole’s arthritis is the real crime 27 Oct 2013 * Doctors to face regular competence tests following Harold Shipman murders 25 Oct 2013 * Western health care is 'stuck in the sickbay' 26 Oct 2013 He told the House of Commons Immigration Bill committee: "If you go to obstetrics at St Thomas's across there they would talk to you about the Lagos shuttle. "I think there's organised crime behind this, by that I mean people pay an amount of money to come into the country. They are given accommodation, told exactly how to answer the right questions. "Maternity tourism the biggest problem is west Africa. We have HFEA rules where only two fertilised ova can be put in any one cycle. There you have high incidents of multiple births. Women come in with the same name, the same age, same address but different blood groups." "It's awful for me as a doctor to have to treat someone who I know is ineligible. I have to cancel a legitimate patient for surgery because there's a health tourist who is ineligible for care who is breaching the NHS rules for two day care. It really bothers me. It really happens so often. Weekly I would say." Professor Terence Stephenson, chairman of the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges, said that the surcharge should reflect the cost of treatment. He said: "A flat levy is clearly a nonsense. £200 wouldn't pay didley squit for one consultation. A single inhaler for asthma costs £55. "It doesn't make any sense at all. You would have to match the cost to what people were taking out of the system for it to make any sense." His concerns were shared by Clare Gerada, the chairman of the Royal College of GPs. She said: "It's not going to deter organised crime. It opens the floodgates to anyone that wants to have free healthcare. It would rapidly become a nonsense." Earlier this month the government published a research paper which suggested that health tourism costs the NHS more than £2 billion a year. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt hopes to recover up to £500 million a year, arguing Britain cannot afford an ‘international health service’. The Home Office plans a new annual levy of £150 on foreign students and £200 on temporary migrants. The surcharge is expected to generate £200 million. The Department for Health said foreigners paying the surcharge to access the health service would need to have a student visa or a job in the UK to qualify for treatment. A spokesman said: "The health surcharge is not a charge for visitors to the United Kingdom. It is only for people coming here on a visa. "If you were the woman who was pregnant with triplets, for you to get access to our healthcare by paying the surcharge you would either have to get a job with someone who was a sponsored employer, or you would have to get a visa as a student, be accepted at a university and pay the fees." Dr Gerada also said that Britain will experience an "explosion" of expats returning to Britain for treatment who will be "almost impossible to identify". She said: "There are a whole bunch of expats who actually live abroad and come back twice a year. They are almost impossible to identify. I would predict that there is going to be an explosion of this group. "They are going to be returning the UK and wanting the treatment that they can't afford in Spain. That's a group I would be quite worried about." NHS * News » * UK News » * Health » * Health News » * Steven Swinford » In NHS Man running up stairs Health advice: working out on an empty stomach Prof Jane Maher said survival rates also mirrored levels of deprivation, with poorer people less likely to seek help early. 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By Matthew Young/Published 14th October 2013 jobless, eu, european, union, migrants, unemployed, nhs, benefits, JOBLESS: More than 600,000 EU migrants are jobless in the UK The 291-page paper will be published this week by the European commissioner in charge of employment and welfare. It shows that the number of migrants in Britain last year had risen by 42% since 2006. Conservative MP Douglas Carswell said: “It is extraordinary how the European project has debased and debauched the original, noble idea of the welfare state. “These figures show the wave of benefit migrants has become a tsunami of economic refugees fleeing the eurozone crisis to try to find jobs here.” CRITIC: Carswell claims that the country is suffering from a 'tsunami' of migrants [PAUL STEWART] CRITIC: Carswell claims that the country is suffering from a 'tsunami' of migrants [PAUL STEWART] “It is extraordinary how the European project has debased and debauched the original, noble idea of the welfare state.” Douglas Carswell The number of EU migrants coming to Britain without a job rose 73% in the three years to 2011, the report says. The study’s details are the first to show the impact from mainly eastern European countries including Poland, Lithuania, the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Jobless drifters cost the NHS £1.5bn but the French health system just £3.4m. 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Oliver Ager, 35, (pictured) pleaded guilty to 17 charges of fraud when he appeared yesterday before Cardiff Crown Court Doctor Who accountant jailed for swindling BBC Wales out of £80,000 A huge wave breaks at Porthcawl on Monday updated Wales weather: More heavy rain and strong winds for Wales after weekend of brutal storms News Opinion + Carolyn Hitt on gender stereotypes Is it important to put a bit of PC into CBBC? It is if you consider fictional children’s characters provide the very first gender templates for small boys and girls" + Stuart Cole on transport investment It is unfair to expect the Welsh Government to achieve these investments so essential for the Welsh economy without a clear picture of its future finances from HM Treasury, but our government too must be clear on what it aims to achieve." * Sport + Latest Sport + Rugby + Football + Cardiff City + Swansea City + Boxing + Cricket + Ice Hockey + Other Sport + Sport Opinion Trending Today + Lee Byrne + Aled Brew + Michael Laudrup + Nicky Maynard + Nathan Blake Popular this week + South Wales derby + Gareth Bale + British and Irish Lions + Wales Rugby Team + Sam Warburton Top Sport Cardiff City linked with move for Senegal striker Mame Biram Diouf as Ole Gunnar Solskjaer steps up recruitment drive AN115803 Hannover 96 forward Diouf played for Solskjaer at Molde and has formerly played for Manchester United and Blackburn Rovers Blakey's Bootroom Blakey's Boot Room: Watch our weekly Cardiff City debate show back now 01.01.14 Cardiff Blues v Newport Gwent Dragons Cardiff Blues suffer Rhys Patchell blow ahead of Toulon Heineken Cup battle Sport Opinion + Scott Johnson Scott Johnson on Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's appointment as Cardiff City manager Having missed out on their first choice, Alan Shearer, last time round, they’ve gone one better this time, but is he the right man for the job?" + Nathan Blake on Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's appointment at Cardiff City What is for certain is that he got off to a fantastic start in the FA Cup at Newcastle" * What's On + Latest What's On + Arts & Culture + Comedy + Family & Kids + Film + Food & Drink + Music & Nightlife + Lifestyle Trending Today + Benedict Cumberbatch + Joanna Page + Ioan Gruffudd + Mark Drakeford + Ruth Jones Popular this week + Strictly Come Dancing + Wish Campaign + Restaurant reviews + Katherine Jenkins + Catherine Zeta-Jones Top What's On Sherlock Season 3: Viewing figures stay strong for episode 2, The Sign of Three Benedict Cumberbatch as Sherlock Holmes The Sign of Three saw the viewing figures for Sherlock Season 3 stay strong, with 8.8 million viewers watching John Watson get married and Sherlock Holmes' best man speech Ioan Gruffudd Ioan Gruffudd turns to psychologist to help him cope with movie audition knock-backs Sherlock Most talked-about TV moments: from Sherlock and Doctor Who to The Prisoner and The Sopranos What's On Opinion + Elena Cresci on series 3 of Sherlock I'm just going to say what everyone is thinking - drunk Sherlock Holmes is the best thing the BBC has ever done" + Kirstie McCrum on this week's TV 'I will probably swim against the tide of popular opinion when I say that I found Sherlock just a little too smug'" * Business + Latest Business + Business News + Commercial Property + Personal Finance + Appointments + Business Opinion Trending Today + Edwina Hart + Mark Drakeford + Russell Goodway + Malcolm Walker + Carwyn Jones Popular this week + Finance Wales + Economy + Cardiff Airport + Transport Top Business Call Centre hoping for successful start to 2014 Save Britain Money Ltd chief executive Nev Wilshire The Swansea company which featured in the BBC3 documentary The Call Centre enjoyed significant growth last year Cardiff Airport Air Malta announces additional flights from Cardiff Airport What business can do to improve education standards in Wales Business Opinion + Leighton Jenkins on education We are travelling in the right direction but it’s not been enough to deliver the world-class schools system our young people deserve, that parents want and that businesses need." + Stuart Cole on transport investment It is unfair to expect the Welsh Government to achieve these investments so essential for the Welsh economy without a clear picture of its future finances from HM Treasury, but our government too must be clear on what it aims to achieve." * In Your Area + North Wales + Mid Wales + South-East Wales + South-West Wales + Cardiff + Swansea + Anglesey + Blaenau Gwent + Bridgend + Caerphilly + Carmarthenshire + Ceredigion + Conwy + Cynon Valley + Denbighshire + Flintshire + Gwynedd + Merthyr Tydfil + Monmouthshire + Neath Port Talbot + Newport + Pembrokeshire + Powys + Rhondda + Pontypridd + Torfaen + Vale of Glamorgan + Wrexham * Buy, Sell & Tell + Jobs Jobs Search for jobs in Wales + Motors Motors Find new & used cars for sale + Property Property Buying, Selling or Renting? 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Swansea City News All your Swansea City news from the Wales Online sports desk. * Twitter + Follow us on Twitter @walesonline The latest Wales news, sport, weather and events from Wales Online @walesrugby Latest Welsh Rugby News from WalesOnline - Western Mail, South Wales Echo and Wales on Sunday @welsh_football All your Welsh football news from the Wales Online sports desk @yourcardiff The latest Cardiff news, business, crime and transport from WalesOnline * Newsletters + Subscribe Daily bulletin A daily bulletin of the best news and sport from WalesOnline * Home * News * Wales News * Newport sponsorshipBar advertisement * By Darren Devine * Comments 'Migration clusters' in Welsh towns and cities putting pressure on key services, Home Office warns 4 Jul 2013 13:52 Cardiff, Ceredigion, Newport, Wrexham, Swansea and Pembrokeshire all pinpointed by report as areas with migration rates 'well above' national average Newport is one of the cities named in the Home Office report Newport is one of the cities named in the Home Office report David Hurst Towns and cities across Wales have “high migration clusters” putting pressure on essential services and social cohesion, according to a new report for the Home Office. Cardiff, Ceredigion, Newport, Wrexham, Swansea and Pembrokeshire are all identified in the report as areas with “migration rates that are well above the national average". The report, Social and Public Service Impacts of International Migration at the Local Level, marks the first attempt by officials to study the impact of different types of migration in different parts of the country. Cardiff is in a cluster of “urban areas, mainly large conurbations" with “high rates of African and Asian migration, child and international student migration, and a high proportion of supported asylum seekers". Ceredigion is identified within a group that “comprise student towns and coastal and semi-rural areas” with "high levels of churn, generally higher levels of international student migration but moderate migration of other migrants". Wrexham, Swansea and Newport are classed as asylum dispersal areas that "comprise mainly industrial towns characterised by low turnover, high proportions of supported asylum seekers, high worklessness and social housing levels." Pembrokeshire is described as a "migrant worker....countryside area" having "high levels of migration from the (new) EU accession countries", but "below average levels of migration from other countries and lower turnover levels". Asylum dispersal areas like Newport, Swansea and Wrexham and migrant worker areas like Pembrokeshire "have had limited prior experience of large-scale migration", according to the report. "The presence of asylum seekers, refugees and low-skilled workers may therefore have more noticeable effects on social cohesion in these areas," the report concludes. It also suggests the impact of asylum seekers and refugees on health and social services is likely to be greater in Wrexham, Newport, Swansea and Cardiff because of their "high numbers of supported asylum seekers". However ares like Cardiff may have a longer history of dealing with the needs of migrant groups and are therefore better able to adapt to, receive and support new arrivals, the report adds. Pressure on housing is likely to be concentrated in the private rented sector, where most new migrants live. It will be felt most keenly in migrant worker town and countryside areas like Pembrokeshire. The report suggests areas like Pembrokeshire "may experience a greater impact from recent new arrivals due to the new influx of population’s high impact relative to the pre-existing levels and low population density (since these areas are predominantly rural). "This combination of high volumes of new migrants in an area with little previous experience of receiving migrants appears to give rise to greater challenges and potential tensions." In Ceredigion the impact of migration may be less noticeable because the area has higher than average inflows of students and skilled workers from long-standing EU countries who make less impact on services. But the reports adds this "does not mean there is not pressure on services caused by very large numbers of such migrants". On the other hand migration in areas of "rural and coastal retirement" like the North Wales coast and Powys may be of benefit because families and children might help to keep rural schools open, while foreign workers can make a valuable contribution to the economy. Overall the report found 2% of the UK's non-British population lives in Wales, with 5% in Scotland, 2% in Northern Ireland and 91% in England. 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UK News Jimmy Savile victims seek single inquiry * The view from Aberystwyth's Constitution Hill as the seafront is battered by waves Wales weather Wales weather: Homes, student halls and businesses on Aberystwyth seafront evacuated ahead of second huge tidal swell * The three-star Legacy Cardiff International Hotel in Tongwynlais will close within the next two months it has been announced Tongwynlais More then 20 job losses expected as hotel resort announces it is to close skyscraper advertisement Our print products - online ... Read our publications online You can access our print publications here Most Read in News 1. Mark Drakeford Health minister: Public must take greater responsibility for their own health 2. Wales weather Wales weather: Homes, student halls and businesses on Aberystwyth seafront evacuated ahead of second huge tidal swell 3. Wales weather Wales storms: 22 pictures that show the ferocious power of the latest storm to pummel the Welsh coastline 4. Wales weather Wales weather: 22 pictures that reveal the astonishing scale of the damage to Aberystwyth's storm-ravaged seafront 5. Wales weather Wales weather: More heavy rain and strong winds for Wales after weekend of savage storms Who Can Fix My Car whocanfixmycar.com Find rated mechanics in Wales See more stories you'll love You've turned off story recommendations. Turn them on and we'll update the list below with stories we think you'll love (how we do this). Recommended Why? * WalesOnline Live Blog News Live: Wales breaking news, Monday 6 January, 2014 * Theo Walcott is stretchered off during Arsenal's FA Cup Third Round win over Spurs England Football Team It's World Cup heartbreak for Arsenal and England strike ace Walcott after serious knee injury * A BBC accountant has been jailed for two years over a missing ¿80,000. Oliver Ager, 35, (pictured) pleaded guilty to 17 charges of fraud when he appeared yesterday before Cardiff Crown Court Doctor Who Doctor Who accountant jailed for swindling BBC Wales out of £80,000 * Mountain Ash Comprehensive School also rose by one band Mountain Ash Staff tackle teenager who took knife to comprehensive school * Thousands of lawyers have staged an unprecedented walk-out at courts in England and Wales over legal aid cuts. Barristers have chosen not to attend proceedings at courts in cities including London, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Birmingham, Newcastle, Winchester, Bristol and Cardiff. Criminal Bar Association chair Nigel Lithman said the "strike" had the backing of almost every chambers and accused Justice Secretary Chris Grayling of "manipulating" official figures to falsely portray lawyers doing criminal aid work as high-earning "fat cats". The Government plans to cut fees as part of a bid to slash £220 million from the legal aid budget by 2018/19 - reducing them by as much as 30% in the longest and most complex cases. UK News The day's news in pictures: January 06, 2014 * Donal Lenihan Wales Rugby Team European rugby crisis: Irish legend Donal Lenihan warns world rugby could be damaged if clubs win power struggle * Victims of Jimmy Savile have called for a single judge-led inquiry into how the former DJ was able to evade justice for so long. 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Football - Celtic v Ajax Amsterdam - UEFA Champions League Group Stage Matchday Three Group H - Celtic Park, Glasgow, Scotland - 22/10/13 Celtic manager Neil Lennon celebrates at the end of the match Mandatory Credit: Action Images / Craig Brough GENERIC Sports Hotline: Celtic boss Neil Lennon should look for a bargain in Rangers' January sales Bank of Scotland Record View: No accounting for Bank of Scotland's favourable loan to ex-managing director + Daily record Bingo Daily Record Bingo Play Daily Record Bingo now for great prizes! Search: Please provide search keyword(s) Search ____________________ * Home * News * Scottish News * Census * Your Account + Edit Profile + Logout sponsorshipBar advertisement * By Dailyrecord.co.uk Population in Scotland reaches record high as figures reach 5,313,600 8 Aug 2013 10:45 ACCORDING to National Records of Scotland, last year's population was up 13,700 from mid-2011 and up 18,200, from the March 2011 census. Getty Images SCOTLAND'S population has reached a record high, new estimates suggest. The population on June 30 last year was 5,313,600, up 13,700 from mid-2011 and up 18,200 from the census in March 2011, according to National Records of Scotland (NRS). There were 2,577,140 males and 2,736,460 females. The number of both males and females was the highest ever. NRS chief executive Tim Ellis said: "Scotland's population has continued to grow, reaching its highest-ever level last year. The increase from the census in 2011 to end June 2012 was 18,200. "The rise was because there were over 6,000 more births than deaths and a net in-flow of 15,200 more people coming to Scotland than leaving. "Most of this net migration increase is from people coming to Scotland from overseas rather than from the rest of the UK. "Overall however, fewer people came to Scotland from overseas and more people left to go overseas in the year to mid-2012, than in the previous year." The UK's population has grown by more than 400,000 to 63.7 million , new official figures show. The growth of 419,900 in the past year means the UK has had the biggest growth of any country in Europe in the year to June 30 2013 and it is now the third largest EU nation behind Germany and France, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures. France's population grew by 319,100 in the past year to 65,480,500 while Germany's population went up by 166,200 to 80,399,300, the ONS said. The UK had its biggest baby boom since 1972 as 813,200 births were recorded in the past year. There were 558,800 deaths during this period. The UK's population increase can be tracked back to the fact that there were 254,400 more births than deaths and net migration levels of 165,600, the ONS said. A drop in the smoking habit plus improvements to health treatments for circulatory illnesses has seen more men living past the 75-year marker. This is why the number of men aged 75 and over in the UK has increased by just over 26per cent, or 422,353, since mid-2001 to 2,043,034 now. Migration from overseas accounted for 517,800 of the population flow into the UK while 352,100 people left the country, puttng net migration at 165,600 for the year. The estimated population of England now stands at 53.5 million, 5.3 million in Scotland, 3.1 million in Wales and 1.8 million in Northern Ireland. Many of the migrants to the UK are from China, India, Germany, USA, Pakistan, Poland and Australia. The ONS noted that the birth increases are being driven by large numbers of women in their 20s and 30s who are becoming mothers along with an increase in the number of migrant families in the UK. The number of non UK-born mothers is about 26per cent, the ONS said. A 104,000 surge in London's population accounts for around a quarter of the UK's 419,900 population growth. Together London, the South East and the East of England accounted for 53per cent of growth across the UK in the year while Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland jointly accounted for 8per cent. More people from other parts of the UK moved to the South East than any other region, leading to a 26,000 increase in the area. London saw the greatest numbers on the move within the UK with a net loss of more than 51,000 people who moved out, largely to the South East and East of England, the ONS data records. The city proved to be top choice for international migrants arriving in the UK as London recorded a net international migration of 69,000 - the highest of all regions. Northern Ireland had the lowest net migration growth of around 400, the ONS said. London also had the largest natural change of all regions as it recorded 86,000 more births than deaths in the past year while Scotland had the lowest with 4,200 more births than deaths. Recently Published Revealed: Almost two thirds of Scots identify themselves as 'Scottish only', census figures reveal Most Scots consider themselves as "Scottish only" RESULTS from the latest Census show that 62 per cent of Scots consider themselves "Scottish only" - three times as many as say they are "Scottish and British". * Quarter of West Dunbartonshire people are disabled or have serious health condition Wild about Scotland Waterway to go for top thrills Pedal or paddle, surf or swim, there’s fun for all in our great outdoors Related Tags In the News Census mpu advertisement skyscraper advertisement See more stories you'll love You've turned off story recommendations. Turn them on and we'll update the list below with stories we think you'll love (how we do this). Recommended on the Record Why? * Nicola Sturgeon gives her speechat St Andrews Uni Independence referendum Nicola Sturgeon urges Labour and Tory supporters to vote Yes in September and claims referendum transcends party politics * Cameron flip flops in 2007 bu switching his parting from left to right David Cameron David Cameron's crimper handed MBE in Honours list for services to hairdressing * Neil Lennon and his squad failed to make it out of Glasgow Airport Celtic FC Celtic's winter break is put on hold as players are grounded in Glasgow due to flight cancellation * Dundee Police appeal for information after three brothers are attacked whilst walking home on New Year's Day * Royal Alexandra Hospital, Paisley, where 1666 staff have been attacked Douglas Alexander RAH sees 46 staff attacked every month, new figures reveal * Councillor Andy Doig is looking at new ways to boost his town Remembrance Day Johnstone town centre should take centre stage * Daily Record News in 90 Seconds Scottish News Video: News in 90 seconds Monday January 6 See more stories you'll love You've turned off story recommendations. 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Recommended in News Why? * Nicola Sturgeon gives her speechat St Andrews Uni Independence referendum Nicola Sturgeon urges Labour and Tory supporters to vote Yes in September and claims referendum transcends party politics * Cameron flip flops in 2007 bu switching his parting from left to right David Cameron David Cameron's crimper handed MBE in Honours list for services to hairdressing * Dundee Police appeal for information after three brothers are attacked whilst walking home on New Year's Day * Royal Alexandra Hospital, Paisley, where 1666 staff have been attacked Douglas Alexander RAH sees 46 staff attacked every month, new figures reveal * Councillor Andy Doig is looking at new ways to boost his town Remembrance Day Johnstone town centre should take centre stage * Daily Record News in 90 Seconds Scottish News Video: News in 90 seconds Monday January 6 * Ann Brown, Cathy Edgar, Annemarie Boagy, Dr Alastair Dorward, Alwyn Downs and Alice Kane Royal Alexandra Hospital Lung charity donation helps patients to Breathe Easy City: [Glasgow________________] Rent: 0___________________ to 9999________________ Property Type: [Any__________________] Beds: Furnishing: [1_] [Any_] Type of Let: [All________________] Search for Property IFRAME: //www.facebook.com/plugins/likebox.php?href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.c om%2Fthescottishdailyrecord&width=310&height=290&colorscheme=light&show _faces=true&border_color&stream=false&header=true&appId=326188144080341 mpu-bottom advertisement Bingo dailyrecordbingo.co.uk £50,000 in guaranteed jackpots to be won each week Play Daily Record Bingo now for great prizes! Most Read in News Football hooligan Gerald McCann 1. Courts Fury as football yob jailed for nine months after bloody mass brawl in train station has been freed after just eight WEEKS 2. Glasgow Royal Infirmary Horror at Hogmanay: Female burglar batters 80-year-old great-grandad in his own home after he saw in New Year with his family 3. Ally McCoist Rangers manager Ally McCoist laughs off Twitter row with John Gemmell insisting: "I get called worse in the house" 4. Weather Satellite image shows huge storm front gathering in Atlantic ready to bring more gales and heavy rain to Scotland 5. Weird News Hunter who claims he KILLED Bigfoot reveals new photographs as 'conclusive proof' Most Read 1. Glasgow Royal Infirmary Horror at Hogmanay: Female burglar batters 80-year-old great-grandad in his own home after he saw in New Year with his family 2. Courts Fury as football yob jailed for nine months after bloody mass brawl in train station has been freed after just eight WEEKS 3. Ally McCoist Rangers manager Ally McCoist laughs off Twitter row with John Gemmell insisting: "I get called worse in the house" 4. Rangers FC Rangers star Richard Forster urges Stenny striker John Gemmell to chuck Twitter - and forge a new career as a football agent 5. 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Search term: ____________________ (BUTTON) Search BBC News UK * Home * UK * Africa * Asia * Europe * Latin America * Mid-East * US & Canada * Business * Health * Sci/Environment * Tech * Entertainment * Video * England * Northern Ireland * Scotland * Wales * UK Politics * Education 25 October 2013 Last updated at 10:51 GMT Share this page * Delicious * Digg * Facebook * reddit * StumbleUpon * Twitter * Email * Print Mark Easton, Home editor Article written by Mark Easton Home editor * More from Mark * Follow Mark on Twitter Consulting... and ignoring Detail of woman walking with crutches More from Mark * New parents shun state relationship help * Can you persuade people not to buy stolen goods? * Lady Mary needn't worry - Britain's elite will survive * Bustling market towns hold the secret of happiness What is the point of government consultations? I pose the question at the end of a week in which ministers responded to three official consultations on three controversial proposals - and appeared to ignore the results from them all. On Monday, the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) published its response to a consultation on planned changes to the assessment of people with disabilities in determining their entitlement to benefits. The government had conducted the consultation, it said, "in a fully open-minded manner". Ministers had carefully considered all the views expressed. The consultation focused on plans limiting entitlement to extra help for mobility needs to those who cannot walk 20m. The overwhelming response was that this was a bad idea. "Respondents felt there was no evidence to support the use of 20m," the consultation reported, pointing out "that other government policies use 50m as a measure of mobility". In a section entitled "What you told us", the DWP notes concern that the plan "could increase isolation and reduce independence, have significant financial impact, and cause deterioration in their physical and mental health". "Start Quote Nowhere in the government's response is there evidence that anyone thought the 20m criteria was the right policy" End Quote Respondents warned that the 20m criteria would mean some disabled people needing support from other public services, increasing the cost for the government. "The most common suggestion made by respondents", the DWP reports, "was to extend the qualifying distance for the enhanced rate from 20m to a longer distance". Nowhere in the government's response to the consultation is there evidence that anyone thought the 20m criteria was the right policy. "Having considered all these factors", the DWP response concludes, "the government believes that the use of 20m is the best way of identifying those whose physical mobility is most limited". It is, of course, the democratic right of ministers to consult and to listen and then ignore. The arguments put forward by the DWP may be compelling. But it does lead some to ask whether the consultation really had much value. A similar question might be posed following the government's response on Tuesday to consultations on two proposals concerning immigrants. The Home Office published the results of the public consultation on plans for a levy on temporary non-EEA migrants as a contribution towards the costs of possible NHS care while in the UK. It is a move that ministers claim enjoys considerable public support, but the consultation came back with a rather different view. On the principle of a levy, "34% felt that temporary migrants should make a direct contribution to the costs of their healthcare. Sixty-two per cent disagreed," it found. The Home Office notes differences depending upon the "type of respondent". Among the general public, 65% were against the plan. Among organisations that responded, 77% were opposed. Health-sector respondents, however, were in favour - 66% felt temporary migrants should contribute to the cost of their healthcare. It is the view of 235 health sector respondents, representing around 12% of the total, that appears to have swayed ministers most. "We have considered all responses to these questions carefully but remain convinced that only permanent migrants should be automatically eligible for free NHS care." Consultations are not referendums. In a way, it seems odd the Home Office should go to such trouble to quantify the proportions for and against the policy since the exercise is not designed as an X-factor style public vote. But having conducted a public consultation and expressing gratitude to all those "who have taken the time to respond and to those who have contributed their experience and insight to what is a complex issue", one is left wondering what the point was. The government response to a separate consultation, also published on Tuesday, invites the same question. This time the proposal under scrutiny was the introduction of a legal obligation on landlords to check the immigration status of tenants. "While between one-third and two-fifths of respondents supported the proposal," the Home Office response states, "slightly more than half of all respondents disagreed." Aerial view of houses The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors considered it "inappropriate to use private landlords and lettings agents to help deliver the government's immigration policy". The majority of landlord representative organisations were opposed. "The most widely expressed concern by third sector organisations," the Home Office reveals, "was the potential to impact on vulnerable people, such as those who were homeless, those with learning difficulties and those fleeing domestic abuse". The response? "The government has carefully considered the responses to the consultation and remains convinced of an urgent need for action to deter illegal migration and to safeguard the legitimate housing market." The consultation may lead to ministers including an amendment designed to counter discrimination against foreign national tenants. But on the broad proposal, it seems the exercise has not shifted government thinking one jot. According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), "public consultation is one of the key regulatory tools employed to improve transparency, efficiency and effectiveness of regulation". But there has long been scepticism as to whether such exercises are anything more than cosmetic. The public consultation is an opportunity for ministers to test their ideas with experts, those directly affected and voters more generally. Community participation on proposed legislation is seen as a key component of "citizen power". But formal public consultation exercises very rarely result in a government re-think - even if they reveal profound concern. That is not the point of them, and we should not pretend otherwise. Mark Easton, Home editor Article written by Mark Easton Mark Easton Home editor * More from Mark * Follow Mark on Twitter @BBCMarkEaston via Twitter Yup. I am pointless. My children will never let me forget. http://t.co/SlcPEGvuCW More on This Story More from Mark * New parents shun state relationship help * Can you persuade people not to buy stolen goods? * Lady Mary needn't worry - Britain's elite will survive * Bustling market towns hold the secret of happiness * Policing the police * Public 'sees improvements amid cuts' * Are the children of Birmingham safe tonight? * Is online crime really rising? Comments This entry is now closed for comments Jump to comments pagination * All Comments 308 * loading * + Order by: + Latest First + Highest Rated + Lowest Rated * rate this positive negative 0 rate this Rate this comment positively Rate this comment negatively 0 Comment number 308. justmyopinion 27th October 2013 - 0:06 there isn't any point - it's just so somebody can say later "well we let the public have their say". Because everyone knows decisions are more or less decided in advance like when Hunt smoothed the way for the Sky stitch up, they tend not to bother giving their opinions so the same people in government can then say "nobody objected". A farce all round. Report this comment (Comment number 308) Link to this (Comment number 308) * rate this positive negative 0 rate this Rate this comment positively Rate this comment negatively 0 Comment number 307. All for All 26th October 2013 - 23:07 Over @303-4 "gobsmacked storm a direct result of our behaviour" 'Our behaviour' not even ours, driven - despite any higher ambitions in govt, public service, business competition, consultations & responses - driven in every moment of every day of everybody, subtly or not, by the hierarchy of fear & greed. Even population, driven by Mammon. Our duty that equal partnership be known of. Not too late? Report this comment (Comment number 307) Link to this (Comment number 307) * rate this positive negative 0 rate this Rate this comment positively Rate this comment negatively 0 Comment number 306. Damien 26th October 2013 - 21:24 I think most people here would be better involved via 38 Degrees.Politicians hate it,so it must be effective in focusing on day to day policy accountability rather than a guaranteed five year tenure of Party Whip or ambition driven compliance by our so-called representatives. Report this comment (Comment number 306) Link to this (Comment number 306) * rate this positive negative +1 rate this Rate this comment positively Rate this comment negatively +1 Comment number 305. darryl hazell 26th October 2013 - 20:39 There is absolutely no point in any Government consultation. What normally happens is that business vested interests prevail and the minister responsible for granting favourable planning or development is normally rewarded with a non executive directorship a few months later. Report this comment (Comment number 305) Link to this (Comment number 305) * rate this positive negative +2 rate this Rate this comment positively Rate this comment negatively +2 Comment number 304. An Over Populated Planet 26th October 2013 - 20:24 302. All for All This storm that is comihng in the next couple of days is a direct result of our behaviour. Report this comment (Comment number 304) Link to this (Comment number 304) Comments 5 of 308 * loading * Show more Add your comment Sign in with your BBC iD, or Register to comment and rate comments All posts are reactively-moderated and must obey the house rules. 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Facebook Twitter Get your subscription: Midterm Elections___ Via Search quickly: You could use mouse crossed, get unlimited reading. __________________________________________________________________ UK has one of largest Roma populations in Western Europe with 200,000 living here FURTHER READING:000 living,11million 6million,30 October,54 EST,900 Wales,2004 latest uk one largest 2013-10-31 03:18:02 * Contradicts Government claims 'relatively few' had set up home here * Most of the Roma citizens thought to have arrived in the last ten years * 200,000 figure is four times 49,000 estimated four years ago in a report * Some 183,000 have set up home in England as well as 3,000 in Scotland By Amie Keeley PUBLISHED: 20:54 EST, 30 October 2013 | UPDATED: 20:54 EST, 30 October 2013 Britain has one of the largest Roma populations in Western Europe - with about 200,000 living here - says an authoritative report. "UK has one of..." Developments of events Follow-up report to me * Any reported complete * Just news photo * Just video The study contradicts Government claims that ‘relatively few Roma citizens’ had set up home in this country. Most are thought to have arrived in the last ten years. The 200,000 figure is four times the 49,000 estimated just four years ago in a report prepared for the Department of Children School and Families. Figures: Local residents outside an apartment block in a slum inhabited by Roma people in Baia Mare, Romania. Britain has one of the largest Roma populations in Western Europe - with about 200,000 living here Some 183,000 have set up home in England, with 3,000 in Scotland, 900 in Wales, and 500 in Northern Ireland. The findings come amid concerns about how many more migrants will arrive when restrictions on workers from Romania and Bulgaria are relaxed in January. It is claimed most of the migrants have arrived since a number of eastern European countries, including Slovakia and the Czech Republic, joined the European Union in 2004. The latest study, conducted by the University of Salford and seen by Channel 4 News, concluded the migrant Roma population in Britain was ‘significant’, increasing, and that 200,000 was almost certainly a ‘conservative estimate’. As well as London, Yorkshire, the North West and the Midlands are identified as areas where large numbers of Roma live. According to Channel 4 News, Sheffield has seen a big influx of Roma families over the last ten years. Popular: Sheffield has seen a big influx of Roma families over the last ten years, according to Channel 4 News A decade ago, only one or two were living in the Page Hall area of the city. There are now several hundred families – with more arriving. Families of ten children are not uncommon. Miroslav Sandor, who works in a local advice centre in Sheffield for Roma people, came to the UK in 2004 when Slovakia joined the EU. 'We came here for a better life, having a job, having education for my children' Miroslav Sandor, worker at advice centre for Roma people He was drawn by the chance to send his children to school and college. He told the programme: ‘We came here for a better life, having a job, having education for my children.’ Miroslav ‘Bob’ Sandor, his son, said: ‘In Slovakia when you go to school they don’t let you go to college. If you Roma they just don’t care about you.’ Gulnaz Hussain, manager of an advice centre for migrants in Sheffield, said: ‘I don’t think we could accommodate more people arriving. I think it’s taken its toll in terms of numbers and houses that are available.’ Gathering: As well as London (pictured), Yorkshire, the North West and the Midlands are identified as areas where large numbers of Roma live When asked if Roma people had been welcomed, she responded: ‘There’s been some increased tension since their arrival.’ 'There’s been some increased tension since their arrival' Gulnaz Hussain, manager of advice centre for migrants One of the local residents, Jane Howarth, who is not Roma but has taken it upon herself to organise street patrols around Page Hall, said she often saw ‘hoards of people, Roma, standing on street corners, drinking, eating, chucking all their rubbish’. Dr Philip Brown, one of the authors of the study, said: ‘A few years ago we didn’t really understand the number of migrant Roma in the UK.’ The Council of Europe estimates the population across the whole continent is somewhere above 11million – with 6million in the EU. Of those, around two million live in Romania. Spain has the largest Roma population in Western Europe, with 750,000, followed by France with 400,000. Share or comment on this article dailymail.co.uk Disclaimer statement: The point of this article or rights belongs to the authors and publishers. We take no responsibility for the content of this article and legitimacy. Do you have any questions about this article, please contact the news source dailymail.co.uk. 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Discover The Most ... * Viewed * Discussed * 1 Leeds United: Mac aims to wrap up Stewart transfer * 2 Revealed: Leeds’s top 10 crime hotspots * 3 Rochdale 2 Leeds United 0: My worst moment in football - Mac * 4 Video Leeds United fans have their say on FA Cup exit * 5 Free home appliances for Leeds council tenants? * 1 Rochdale 2 Leeds United 0: Ruthless Dale deliver FA Cup humiliation * 2 Leeds United: Mac aims to wrap up Stewart transfer * 3 Leeds United closing in on Stewart deal * 4 Leeds City Council’s £1 million housing crisis * 5 Leeds United: Full steam ahead for transfers YEP Says (June 12): Jump in migrant numbers poses a challenge for PM l l Published on the 12 June 2013 10:55 Published 12/06/2013 10:55 1 comments Print this Sponsored by Express Bi-folding Doors It is important to recognise the contribution that migrants have made to our society – from the workers who came here during the 1950s to cover labour shortages in the textile industry to those foreign doctors and nurses without whom the NHS would simply be unable to function. Nevertheless, many are now concerned at the level of immigration into Britain, with new figures which show that the foreign-born population of Yorkshire and the Humber has jumped by nearly 80 per cent in a decade adding weight to the argument that we are taking on too many, too quickly. On top of this there is the influx of Romanians and Bulgarians – at a predicted rate of 75,000 a year – that is expected when work restrictions on those two countries’ citizens are removed in January. The fact that Britain has so little power over the flow of such migrants into this country, coupled with the dire track record of those such as the Border Agency who have been tasked with controlling and tracking those who come here, makes it all but impossible to carry out long-term planning to ensure infrastructure such as schools and healthcare services can cope. Many will think the first step for David Cameron should now be to wrest back some control from the European Union over the former issue, while redoubling the Government’s efforts to get a long overdue grip on the latter. The lag who couldn’t get himself arrested Having broken the terms of his day release from prison, convicted burglar Edward Boyle handed himself in at a Leeds police station. When they didn’t arrest him, he tried again at another one. In the end, it was only after the YEP contacted the police that he was finally put back behind bars – over two weeks later. The problem seems to have stemmed from the failure of officials in Merseyside where Boyle was an inmate to record him as missing. The whole farce would be funny if it were not for the serious questions it raises about the checks and safeguards when prisoners are granted a day out of jail. 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Benefits to registering with us comment on stories Comment on stories Customise daily e-mail newsletters Customise daily e-mail newsletters Arrange your newspaper/digital subscriptions online Arrange your newspaper/digital subscriptions online Offers, promotions and deals from partners Offers, promotions and deals from partners * 06/01/14 * 7°C to 11°C Sunny spells Yorkshire 5-day weather forecast CloseX Tuesday 7 Jan Sunny Temp High 11°c Low 7°c Wind From South west Speed 25 mph Wednesday 8 Jan Sunny Temp High 10°c Low 6°c Wind From South west Speed 18 mph Thursday 9 Jan Light showers Temp High 8°c Low 4°c Wind From West Speed 16 mph Friday 10 Jan Cloudy Temp High 8°c Low 2°c Wind From South west Speed 14 mph Saturday 11 Jan Cloudy Temp High 7°c Low 2°c Wind From South west Speed 8 mph Like us Follow us Place your Ad Subscribe * Main Topics * Debate * Mandela Memorial * Traffic Cams * Rural * Features * Video * Christmas Appeal * Community * NHS * Print Editions * General news * Politics * Education * Local stories * National * Showbiz * Northern Digest * World * Big Debate - HS2 Rail * North-South Divide * Letters * Columnists * YP Comment * Political Editor's Blog * Today's Poll * Environment * Farming * Equestrian Post * Gt Yorkshire Show * Video Stories * Sports Talk * Cricket Talk * Books Outloud * Schools podcasts * Cooks' Masterclass * Classic YP Films * Nostalgia * Obituaries * Blogs [local-stories;pgid=12569019;sz=2x2;ord=[timestamp]?] Dynamic Dart Advertisement Picks of the day * VIDEO: World Cup countdown - Join the debate ahead of Rio 2014 * Video: Leeds fans resigned over Rochdale rout * Video: Driver does 63mph with both hands on head * Video: Construction starts at Bradford’s ‘hole in the ground’ * Tackling stereotypes in the war against obesity * Yorkshire ecologist now our man in St Helena * Manchester City Break for Two from £49! Discover The Most ... * Viewed * Discussed * 1 Smarting Leeds aim to tie up Stewart transfer with Hull today * 2 Simply the worst: Leeds performance has fans turning on Mac * 3 Blackadder star hits back at Gove ‘slagging off teachers’ * 4 Brown is hoping for TV spotlight on Hull reunion * 5 Lovely Jubbly...Only Fools and Horses set to return * 1 Simply the worst: Leeds performance has fans turning on Mac * 2 Smarting Leeds aim to tie up Stewart transfer with Hull today * 3 Rochdale 2 Leeds United 0: Whites did not perform, says McDermott * 4 Fuel cost alarm keeping worried pensioners huddled in their beds * 5 Courts come to standstill as lawyers walk out over legal aid Tensions rise as migrants quit their jobs in region Updated on the 28 March 2010 23:40 Published 28/03/2010 23:35 Print this WAVES of migrants have abandoned Yorkshire because of the impact of recession, leading experts to warn of rising tensions over the foreign workers left behind. New figures show the number of EU migrants registered to work in Yorkshire and Humberside has plummeted from 19,000 in 2006 to a projected 9,000 this year. The exodus has been largely blamed on the recession, with thousands of jobs axed in construction, social care, agriculture and hospitality industries, plus the falling value of the pound, leading many, particularly those with families to support, to return home. But in spite of 230,000 people being unemployed in Yorkshire, evidence has emerged of employers targeting the remaining migrants for new jobs. Fears have been raised that this will add to the perception of foreigners taking the jobs of British workers. But, ironically, concerns have also been raised by firms. If the exodus continues some businesses may not be able to fill the posts migrants have left because British-born workers will not take them. Last week the Government's equality watchdog announced it was writing to Cleckheaton-based sliced meat manufacturer Forza AW over allegations of discrimination against British job seekers after the firm advertised for workers who "must speak Polish". The company says the advertisement was a mistake. Elsewhere it is claimed firms across the region have engineered shift patterns to make jobs only attractive to migrant workers, who often travel to the country without their families and are prepared to work longer, more unsocial hours. Helena Danielczuk, an outreach worker for the Federation of Poles in Yorkshire and the Humber and who works with migrants in Bradford, said: "We know of food manufacturing companies across Yorkshire who have changed their shift patterns to accommodate migrant workers. "They want to make efficiencies and these workers are much more profitable and easier to exploit. TUC regional secretary for Yorkshire and the Humber Bill Adams said: "Any practices to exclude people applying for jobs is against the law and is definitely going to whip up tension. "But it is the unscrupulous employers who are deserving of the blame,not hard-working migrants. It makes me ashamed, some of these employers are getting away with murder." Tens of thousands of workers poured into the region after 2004 when the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia joined the EU. In particular, huge numbers of Polish migrants settled across Yorkshire – in 2007 a total of 10,000 were thought to be living or employed in North Yorkshire alone. Tensions between foreign and domestic workforces in other EU countries have led to violent clashes and unions in Britain have reported a rise in the number of complaints about racist abuse of migrant members following the economic downturn. Regional manager for Yorkshire and Humber Migration Partnership Rob Warm, who has documented the dramatic fall in the numbers, said: "When jobs are scarce the relationship becomes more tense. "The state of the economy makes people more anxious about their own opportunities and it could become more difficult for migrants." Conservative MP John Greenway, chair of the Council of Europe's migration committee and whose Ryedale constituency contains a greater percentage of migrants than any other in Yorkshire, said: "For the immigrants that are staying here there needs to be a greater effort of integration into communities – we have to get a strong grip on this." The warnings come as the centre-left Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) think tank said a fixed cap on immigration could be a political own goal. Tory leader David Cameron has pledged to set a cap on net immigration but said the level should be decided each year according to economic need. Net immigration should be in the "tens of thousands rather than hundreds of thousands". But, in a new report, the IPPR warned that a cap of 40,000, as proposed by the Cross-Party Group on Balanced Migration, would mean "drastic changes" and would threaten both economic performance and the rights of British nationals and settled migrants to be with their families. MORE STORIES * Fire at derelict snooker club * Three charged over New Year murder * Council breaching revenue rules over VAT on fuel, report reveals * Man shot in Bradford * GPs take on extra Saturday hours * * * * * * * Jobs * Directory * Property * Motors JobsToday logo Search for a job * Keywords ____________________ * Location Leeds,Yorkshire_____ * Distance [This area__________] * Job Type [any_______________] Powered by jobs logo Search Directory logo Search the directory * Search For: (Plumber, Taxi, McDonalds...) ____________________ * Where? (Town, Country ...) 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Please click on the provider name to visit their opt-out page. #publisher UK news RSS feed Immigration and asylum RSS feed World news RSS feed European Union RSS feed Race issues RSS feed Romania RSS feed Europe RSS feed Bulgaria RSS feed Science RSS feed Agriculture RSS feed Politics RSS feed Conservatives RSS feed Comment is free RSS feed Turn autoplay off Turn autoplay on Please activate cookies in order to turn autoplay off * Jump to content [s] * Jump to comments [c] * Jump to site navigation [0] * Jump to search [4] * Terms and conditions [8] Edition: UK US AU * Your activity * Email subscriptions * Account details * Linked services Profile Mobile About us * About us, * Contact us * Press office * Guardian Print Centre * Guardian readers' editor * Observer readers' editor * Terms of service * Privacy policy * Advertising guide * Digital archive * Digital edition * Guardian Weekly * Buy Guardian and Observer photos Today's paper * Main section * G2 features * Comment and debate * Editorials, letters and corrections * Obituaries * Other lives * Sport * MediaGuardian * Subscribe Subscribe The Guardian home ____________________ Search * News * Sport * Comment * Culture * Business * Money * Life & style * Travel * Environment * Tech * TV * Video * Dating * Offers * Jobs * Comment is free Why fruit is picked by migrant workers The debate over the decision to scrap a seasonal workers' scheme cuts to the heart of an ambiguity in conservatism * Share * Tweet this * * [pin_it_button.png] * * Email * Richard Seymour * + Richard Seymour + + theguardian.com, Friday 13 September 2013 17.58 BST * Jump to comments (…) Romanian fruit pickers Migrant Romanian workers pick the last chardonnay grapes of the year in West Sussex. Photograph: Jason Alden/Rex Features The Tories, in what seems like a short-sighted concession to anti-immigrant politics, have scrapped a seasonal workers' scheme that allowed Romanian and Bulgarian workers to pick fruit and vegetables in the UK. The growers are outraged, naturally, as this scheme is a source of a healthy profit stream. Indeed, they were looking for a more relaxed migration policy, not a tighter one. Tory politicians in rural constituencies have taken up their cause, with Peter Luff MP suggesting that: "The experience of decades is that British workers don't want to do this work. They are temporary jobs." This sort of debate cuts to the heart of an ambiguity in conservatism: on the one hand, it blames UK workers for not being competitive enough while extolling the virtues of hard-working migrants; on the other hand, it blames immigration for undermining social cohesion and the dilution of national consensus. This argument goes beyond Britain. Wherever there is fruit to be picked, whether it is the United States, New Zealand, or Worcestershire, there are migrant workers. And the argument is heard that "indigenous" workers can't or won't subject themselves to such work. There is often a racial subtext, with the assumption being that migrant workers have a special capacity for the menial labour they perform. There was an opportunity to test this argument in Canada in the late 1990s, when the government embarked upon a punitive "Farmfare" programme for welfare recipients, who would be compelled to enlist for fruit-picking duties in rural Ontario. Opposition to this programme came predictably from trade unions and churches. But the growers also opposed it, preferring to use offshore workers. When it came down to it, their main argument was that offshore workers were more "disciplined" than Canadian welfare workers. The selection criteria for seasonal work programmes meant they were almost always poor, with a large number of dependants. (A similar pattern of selection was discovered in New Zealand's seasonal work programme.) These workers took badly paid, back-breaking work and they did it well because they had mouths to feed. Moreover, they were "there": living on or near the farms rather than travelling from cities. Farmfare candidates, on the other hand, were "undisciplined". Even if they could be trained up, their Canadian citizenship meant that they had too many alternatives to worry about being rehired. The racialised structures of global capitalism thus "disciplined" offshore workers, making them more timid, pliable and hard-working. Yet this is only part of the story. Key to this is the cost of labour. The above arguments imply that "indigenous" workers remain unemployed because they refuse to accept degraded work. But the case of fruit pickers in the UK illustrates what is wrong with that argument. A detailed report on seasonal workers in the UK indicates some distinctive features of this type of employment. The workers, largely from Romania and Bulgaria, are nominally paid the minimum wage, although the effective rate is far lower. They are given few hours each per week, perhaps up to 18, and they are accommodated collectively in portable buildings and caravans for which a deduction is made from their pay. There are a number of factors, then, that drive the cost of this labour down. First, the workers come from countries where the cost of living is lower than in Cambodia or the Dominican Republic, to give two examples. They can support dependants with far less in British pounds than they would need if they had to sustain a family in the UK. Second, their being housed collectively significantly depresses the cost of living, particularly as their accommodation consists of cramped, unliveable quarters. Third, while Bulgaria and Romania are members of the EU, they are subject to "temporary" restrictions on the right of citizens to travel by a number of countries, including the UK. This makes their situation propitious for special working arrangements, and particularly for seasonal, quota-based admission. And their precarious status means they have no choice but to accept lousy conditions. These are material conditions which have nothing to do with choices made by workers. There are few workers in the UK who, paying normal rent, transit and living costs, would be physically able to make a living on such work or support any dependants. This is why the typical pattern is that the availability of migrant workers creates new jobs in periods of growth. With the offer of cheap, disciplined labour, employers open up jobs they would otherwise not be able to sustain. This is a nasty, exploitative system: that's capitalism for you. However, the government's alternative of simply ending the scheme is no good for anyone except Ukip-loving reactionaries. After all, as Joan Robinson put it: "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all." Daily Email close Sign up for the Guardian Today Our editors' picks for the day's top news and commentary delivered to your inbox each morning. Sign up for the daily email * Print this Print this * Share * Contact us Send to a friend Close this popup Sender's name ____________________ Recipient's email address ____________________ Send Your IP address will be logged Share Close this popup Short link for this page: http://gu.com/p/3tmm8 * StumbleUpon * reddit * Tumblr * Digg * LinkedIn * Google Bookmarks * del.icio.us * livejournal * Facebook * Twitter Contact us Close this popup * Report errors or inaccuracies: userhelp@theguardian.com * Letters for publication should be sent to: letters@theguardian.com * If you need help using the site: userhelp@theguardian.com * Call the main Guardian and Observer switchboard: +44 (0)20 3353 2000 * + Advertising guide + License/buy our content Article history About this article Close this popup Why fruit is picked by migrant workers | Richard Seymour This article was published on the Guardian website at 17.58 BST on Friday 13 September 2013. UK news * Immigration and asylum World news * European Union · * Race issues · * Romania · * Europe · * Bulgaria Science * Agriculture Politics * Conservatives More from Comment is free on UK news * Immigration and asylum World news * European Union · * Race issues · * Romania · * Europe · * Bulgaria Science * Agriculture Politics * Conservatives * More on this story * Polish Builders for Channel 4 UK migrants no different to Brits abroad, says home office minister Jeremy Browne praises migrant contribution to UK economy and says Bulgarians and Romanians in UK follow same rules as Britons owning homes in the Dordogne or Marbella * Seasonal migrant workers scheme closes to help British into work * Home Office 'did not predict huge surge in immigration visas for entrepreneurs' * UK immigration: what if it stopped tomorrow? * Share * Tweet this * * * Email Comments Click here to join the discussion. 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BELFAST TELEGRAPH ARCHIVE Belfast: A town is born * Galleries Search ____________________ (BUTTON) Go Home› Local and National› UK› 'Be grateful' for immigrants' input Comments * Email * Print * Font Size /> Generous benefit payments in the UK leave thousands of low-paid jobs attractive to migrants, a Romanian government minister suggests 04 December 2013 Britain should be grateful that Romanians and Bulgarians will take jobs that its own workers refuse to do, a Romanian government minister has said. Also in this Section George Osborne insists Britain must make £25bn more welfare cuts in 2014 [TICON-A VIDEO] Kylie and Ricky set for Voice debut Jogger 'in nine-hour sex attack' Cameron migrant stance criticised Immigrants from the two countries will fill a gap in the workforce, taking on jobs in the agriculture and hospitality sectors from Britons who would rather live on benefits, Labour minister Mariana Campeanu told The Times. She also rebutted fears of a vast influx of migrants coming to claim benefits when EU working restrictions are lifted on January 1, saying the vast majority will take on necessary jobs such as nursing and social care. Suggesting that generous benefit payments in the UK leave thousands of low-paid jobs unfilled and attractive to migrants, Mr s Campeanu said: "I do not know in depth the British social welfare system, this is an internal issue of the British government how generous it can be in its welfare system towards its citizens. "This should maybe be a reason why many British people do not access the vacancies on the labour market for which Romanian citizens, for example, are going to apply. "If there are vacancies, somebody will fill them, whether they are from Romania, Italy, Spain or wherever... "Taking into account the fact that Romanian citizens in the UK contribute greatly to the GDP and also that many of these people are young and well-qualified, the UK should be grafetul that these people have come to live there." Mrs Campeanu said she backed Prime Minister David Cameron's plans to restrict benefits to migrants, and said she was working with the Department of Work and Pensions to crack down on fraudulent claims. She added that the loosening of EU restrictions on movement meant that well-qualified Romanians, such as doctors and nurses, were leaving the country in droves, causing a shortage of more than 20,000 workers in the medical sector. Yesterday London mayor Boris Johnson called for a benefits ban of up to a year and the retention of job restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians. But Mrs Campeanu said the Conservatives should distance themselves from "racism and xenophobia". Download the Belfast Telegraph iPad App Download the Belfast Telegraph iPad App Most Read in this section 1. M1 embankment crash kills teenagers 2. Coalition split over Osborne cuts 3. Jogger 'in nine-hour sex attack' 4. Probe after baby born at warehouse 5. Jail disorder 'longer than thought' 6. Train Robber Biggs in parting shot 7. Heavy rain threatens more floods 8. Cameron urged not to dodge debates 9. Barristers stage legal aid protest 10. Profumo affair: Author believes desire not to upset royals is reason file is still secret Latest Comments Chancellor George Osborne gives a speech on the economy during his visit to manufacturing company Sertec, Coleshill in Birmingham. More in UK (1 of 20 articles) George Osborne insists Britain must make £25bn more welfare cuts in 2014 Read More Competitions The Scottish referendum on independence is due to take place in September 2014 Events calendar 2014 The big news stories over the next 12 months Fireworks light up the London skyline and Big Ben just after midnight on January 1, 2014 in London, England Happy New Year 2014 Mezzo soprano superstar Katherine Jenkins lights up the stage at this year's BBC Proms in the Park live from the Titanic Slipways in Belfast New Year Honours 2014 Katherine Jenkins among those recognised Snowboarder Aimee Fuller pictured on Belfast Lough. Pic Red Bull Rising stars of 2014 Who's set to hit the headlines next year? Northern Ireland- 26th December 2013 Mandatory Credit - Picture - Matt Mackey/Presseye.com Adam & Ann Armstrong Memorial Handicap Steeplechase won by Refused a Name with jockey John Joseph on board. 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Photo by Ulet Ifansasti World in Pictures Striking images from around the globe Evening light on Ballintoy. Submitted by Evelyn McCullough (Portstewart). Favourite Ulster beauty spots Reader images: Send us your pictures Latest News Human remains 'fall from the sky' in Saudi Arabia new Human remains have reportedly fallen from the sky in the Saudi city of Jeddah, landing on the tarmac of a normally busy intersection at around 2.30am on Sunday. George Osborne insists Britain must make £25bn more welfare cuts in 2014 new George Osborne was accused of targeting the poor and vulnerable and sparing the rich as he outlined £25bn of new spending cuts, with half of them coming from the welfare budget. Chancellor George Osborne gives a speech on the economy during his visit to manufacturing company Sertec, Coleshill in Birmingham. 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Theo Walcott looks set to be sidelined for six months Makienok in no hurry over Fulham new Rene Meulensteen must map out Fulham's long-term Barclays Premier League future to convince Simon Makienok to move to Craven Cottage in January, according to the Brondby striker's agent. Rene Meulensteen could add to his squad in January Latest Showbiz Mental health nurse Nathan Filer wins Costa first novel prize with The Shock of the Fall new A mental health nurse, who prompted a bidding war for a debut novel which explored one man’s descent into mental illness, has won the Costa Book award for the best first time writer. Nathan Filer, 32, is a lecturer but also works in mental health Styles and Jenner hit the slopes Harry Styles and Kendall Jenner have fuelled romance rumours by kicking off the New Year on holiday together. Harry Styles has been spending time with Kendall Jenner Mel C stepping out with Greg Burns? 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Email Print LONDON (Reuters) - Recent immigrants to Britain pay more in taxes than they take out in benefits, a study on the impact of immigration said on Tuesday, and another study argued the influx of skilled immigrants was correlated to an increase in productivity. Anti-immigration feeling in Britain has been fuelled recently by warnings in the right-leaning media about new arrivals of so-called benefit-scrounging immigrants claiming state handouts and free healthcare. According to a wide-ranging study based on data from the Office for National Statistics' Labour Force Survey, immigrants arriving from euro-area countries between 2001 and 2011 paid 34 percent more in tax than they received in benefits, while those from other countries paid in about two percent more than they took out. All immigrants were 45 percent less likely to claim from the state than "native", British-born citizens, the report showed. "If you look at those immigrants who came after 1999, both EA (Euro Area) and non-EA immigrants have made a positive fiscal contribution," Christian Dustmann, co-author of the report from University College London, told Reuters. "Over the same period, native-born individuals basically took more out of the welfare system than they put in, in terms of taxes." Prime Minister David Cameron has made immigration policy an important plank of his government in the face of the perceived threat that the UK Independence Party (UKIP) is siphoning off support ahead of a parliamentary election in 2015. UKIP, which campaigns for Britain to leave the EU and for a halt to "open door" immigration, made sweeping gains in local elections in May, winning almost one in four votes, mostly at the expense of Cameron's Conservatives. Census data shows nearly four million migrants settled in England and Wales between 2001 and 2011 against a total population of 56.1 million, the vast majority of Britain's estimated current population of 63.7 million. Cameron has pledged to slash net migration - currently at 176,000 a year - to the "tens of thousands" by 2015. A report from a leading macroeconomic think-tank, the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR), argued there was a "positive and significant association" between higher employment of migrants and productivity. The NIESR's research, which included interviews with employers and focus groups as well as data analysis, showed employers see migrant workers as generally more highly skilled than British-born workers and able to fill gaps in the labour market. The report associated a 10 percent increase in immigrant share in employment between 1997 and 2007 with a 0.6 to 0.9 percent increase in productivity during the period, but said further research was needed to establish the causal relationship between the two. "While employers see skilled migration as most important in meeting their needs, this was at odds with the public's image of a migrant worker as in low skilled, low paid work." The report also said employers saw immigrants as a way of adding to their skillset in the workplace rather than a way of replacing British-born workers. Britain's Conservative-led government has sought to cut overall immigration whilst encouraging high-skilled workers from economies such as India and China. Cameron's spokesman said on Sunday the government had scrapped a plan to force people from certain African and Asian countries to pay a cash bond in return for a visitor's visa to deter them overstaying. (Editing by Sonya Hepinstall) FILED UNDER: UK David Cameron IFRAME: http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?href=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.reuters.c om%2Farticle%2F2013%2F11%2F05%2Fuk-britain-migrants-idUKBRE9A40MD201311 05&layout=standard&show_faces=false&width=450&action=recommend&colorsch eme=light&height=35 * Tweet this * Link this * Share this * Digg this * Email * Print * Reprints We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-though tful-conversation-on-stories/ Comments (1) Raymond.Vermont wrote: Who are these recent immigrants and what are their numbers? Usual example of `vague' being employed by the centrist liberal apologists, for turning the country into a socially re-engineered non entity of a province of Federal Europe. Presumably non `recent' immigrants are the ones whom have given immigrants a bad image... Possibly the same ones that festoon our once green and pleasant lands with completely alien looking structures, (somehow granted planning approvals) in order to worship the cult of Eastern warlordism? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKaJ4b0XYmI Nov 05, 2013 9:41pm GMT -- Report as abuse This discussion is now closed. We welcome comments on our articles for a limited period after their publication. See All Comments >> Read 1. Singapore Airlines A380 in emergency landing in Azerbaijan, no injuries 10:23am GMT 2. Merkel breaks pelvis as her new German coalition bickers 4:38pm GMT 3. Osborne wants more welfare cuts, provoking coalition row | Video 6:40pm GMT 4. Analysis: Euro zone - reasons to be wary in 2014 6:24am GMT 5. 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Benefits to registering with us comment on stories Comment on stories Customise daily e-mail newsletters Customise daily e-mail newsletters Arrange your newspaper/digital subscriptions online Arrange your newspaper/digital subscriptions online Offers, promotions and deals from partners Offers, promotions and deals from partners * Monday 6th January 2014 * * * weather-icon Light showers 7°C / 10°C Edinburgh 5-day weather forecast CloseX Tuesday 7 Jan Light rain Temp High 10°c Low 6°c Wind From South west Speed 24 mph Wednesday 8 Jan Sunny spells Temp High 9°c Low 3°c Wind From South west Speed 15 mph Thursday 9 Jan Light showers Temp High 7°c Low 4°c Wind From West Speed 15 mph Friday 10 Jan Sunny spells Temp High 7°c Low 3°c Wind From South west Speed 15 mph Saturday 11 Jan Cloudy Temp High 6°c Low 2°c Wind From South west Speed 9 mph * Scotland * UK * World * Politics * Transport * Education * Sci-Tech * Environment * Health * Celebrity * Odd * Opinion * Obituaries * Top stories * Edinburgh, East & Fife * Glasgow & West * North East * Tayside & Central * Inverness & Highlands * South * Top stories * Scottish independence * Columnists * Friends of The Scotsman * Leader Comment * Letters * Cartoon [uk;pgid=12962534;sz=2x2;ord=[timestamp]?] Dynamic Dart Advertisement Picks of the day * Gary Locke’s job safe says Hearts administrator * Exploring Islay’s farm-based Kilchoman Distillery * Travel Tales * Lost Edinburgh: The City Walls * 100 Weeks of Scotland: After Hogmanay * Ex-manager puts Graeme Obree’s bike up for sale * Manchester City Break for Two from £49! Discover The Most ... * Viewed * Discussed * 1 Rumour Mill: Finnbogason | Samaras | Kris Boyd * 2 Burger King recalls 'sacrilegious' desserts * 3 Scottish independence: Poll backs more devolution * 4 Comment: Locke puts McCoist claims in perspective * 5 Scottish independence: PM urges emotional case * 1 Ally McCoist attacks ‘unfair’ SPFL scheduling * 2 ‘Independence white paper should scare Scots’ * 3 Celtic: 12 transfer targets, says Neil Lennon * 4 Rumour Mill: Fletcher to Celtic? | Trezeguet | Hibs * 5 Voters to SNP: give us extra childcare now Migrant children ‘being failed by Britain’ The UK is failing migrant children, according to a new report. Picture: PA The UK is failing migrant children, according to a new report. Picture: PA * by JAMIE GRIERSON Published on the 12 June 2013 00:00 Published 12/06/2013 00:00 8 comments Print this BRITAIN is falling short of obligations set out under international law for dealing with migrant children who arrive in the country without parents or relatives, a group of parliamentarians has warned. Immigration concerns are too often given priority over the protection of unaccompanied migrant children, including abuse victims and those who have fled conflict, the Joint Committee on Human Rights found. The committee said the UK is, as a result, failing to meet the terms of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, a treaty bound by international law. It calls on the government not to return children to Afghanistan or Iraq while conflict and humanitarian concerns persist. In 2012, about 1,200 such children sought asylum in the UK, and some 2,150 unaccompanied migrant children were being cared for by local authorities. Committee chairman Dr Hywel Francis MP said: “Unaccompanied migrant children in the asylum and immigration processes are some of the most vulnerable young people in the United Kingdom. “They have often fled conflict situations abroad or have been victims of abuse and exploitation, including those who arrive as victims of trafficking. “It is crucial that they are supported effectively. We do not find it satisfactory that immigration concerns are too often given priority when dealing with such children. In doing so, the UK is falling short of the obligations it owes to such children under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.” Children who had often had traumatic journeys faced intensive interviews on arrival for which there were too rarely interpreting facilities available, the committee said. There was also evidence of children being placed in inappropriate accommodation without suitably trained staff. The committee, made up of MPs and peers, said a lack of support was “starkly” demonstrated by the “culture of disbelief” about the age of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. It found that the age of unaccompanied migrant children is too often disputed, putting their welfare and best interests at risk. The group has called for a change in emphasis to put the best interests of unaccompanied migrant children at the heart of the complex and stressful asylum and immigration processes affecting them. The committee’s report also said decisions on children’s futures are too often delayed until they approach adulthood, leaving children uncertain about what their futures will hold. It wants the government to set up pilot programmes to appoint guardians for unaccompanied migrant children to fight for their best interests and offer them support. Kamena Dorling, co-chair of the Refugee Children’s Consortium, said: “Unaccompanied refugee and migrant children have often been through experiences unimaginable to most of us. “They are alone in the UK with no-one to care for them. The committee’s report is a timely reminder that the UK is still failing to meet its legal obligations to these children.” A Home Office spokeswoman said: “The UK takes its international responsibilities to children seriously and their welfare is at the heart of every decision made. “Unaccompanied asylum-seeking children are always given individual support and reassurance from those in social services and immigration.” MORE STORIES * Severe weather set to ease off as storm passes * Naked Rambler jailed for 16 months for ASBO breach * Winter Olympics: Team GB ‘need security assurance’ * Spare parts for fighter jets made by 3D printers * Brain tumour diagnosis too slow, campaigners say * * * * * * Comments * Jobs * Directory * Property * Motors JobsToday logo Search for a job * Keywords ____________________ * Location Edinburgh,Midlothian * Distance [This area__________] * Job Type [any_______________] Powered by jobs logo Search Directory logo Search the directory * Search For: (Plumber, Taxi, McDonalds...) ____________________ * Where? 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Please click on the provider name to visit their opt-out page. #Cameron faces OAP benefits battle By using this site you agree to the use of cookies for analytics, personalized content and ads Learn More (BUTTON) Skip to content * Make MSN UK your homepage * * * Sign in msn news * Web * MSN News ____________________ web search Submit * home * uk * world * features * video clips Report downplays new migrant impact Eric Pickles admits the Government has no idea about the size of the possible influx of Romanian and Bulgarian migrants 05/04/2013 By pa.press.net SHARE TWEET EMAIL Fears that an influx of Romanians and Bulgarians to Britain will put a strain on public services have been downplayed in an independent report published by the Foreign Office. But the number that may arrive on UK shores after immigration restrictions are lifted next year remains unpredictable, according to the study by the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR). Schools were likely to take much of the strain but the effect on the NHS, the housing sector and the welfare system will be less pronounced, it said. Bulgaria and Romania joined the European Union in 2007 but under "transitional arrangements" workers from the two countries were prevented from travelling to the UK. According to a British Labour Force sample survey, there are currently 26,000 Bulgarians and 80,000 Romanians living in the UK, but the actual numbers could be larger, according to the report. Last month, Communities Secretary Eric Pickles admitted the Government had "no idea" about the size of the possible influx. Yet to begin with at least, the impact on public services will be modest, with the strain only potentially increasing if Romanian and Bulgarian migrants choose to settle in the UK on a long-term basis. Families migrating from the two countries could put pressure on primary school places and although migrant children do not bring school performance down, language assistance will need to be provided. But initially future migrants are likely to be young, low-skilled workers who do not have families, the report said. Because most migrants will be young - mainly under 35 - and healthy, they will have a minimal impact on the health service, it said. The report said the effect on housing is highly dependent on whether migrants settle in the long term, but evidence from local surveys showed that Romanians and Bulgarians are interested in coming to the UK, but it is not a favoured destination and many are interested in temporary stays rather than long-term moves. Romanian and Bulgarian migrants are likely to be low-skilled workers - employed in construction, catering, hospitality and as carers or cleaners, the report said. Currently, the main destinations for Romanian and Bulgarian migrants are Spain and Italy, and to a lesser extent Germany, the NIESR research found. Spain and Italy in particular are favoured because of similarities in language, and may continue to be favoured due to the presence of social and economic networks in those countries. But with the economic situation in southern European countries precarious, that may change. Home Affairs Select Committee chairman Keith Vaz described the report as "helpful" but said it contained no estimates of expected arrivals. He added: "It would be helpful if Theresa May visited Romania and Bulgaria to gauge the reasons why their citizens would choose to migrate to the UK." The minister for Europe, David Lidington, welcomed the report as a contribution to the debate on migration. "The report will help to shape this Government's work to build an immigration system which works in the national interest - supporting the UK economy by continuing to attract the brightest and the best global talent at the same time as protecting our public services and ensuring our welfare system is not open to abuse," he said. "Our tough new rules are already taking effect, with overall net migration falling by almost one third since 2010." 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Cookies FAQs. x [ADTECH;cookie=info;loc=300;grp=1153794;] * Edition: UK * Edition: US Sky News Weather ____________________ Search Follow Sky News on: Facebook Twitter Google Sky News HD Watch Sky News Live 06 January 2014 Home UK World US Business Politics Technology Entertainment Strange News Weather Unemployed Migrants: '600,000 Living In UK' Details of the numbers who have come from around the EU without employment emerge as a poll finds most back an early referendum. 8:26am UK, Sunday 13 October 2013 The European flag The survey shows British voters want early referendum on Europe * Tweet * IFRAME: //www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?href=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com% 2Fstory%2F1153792&send=false&layout=button_count&width=120&show_fac es=false&action=recommend&colorscheme=light&font=arial&height=21 * * Email More than 600,000 unemployed migrants from across the European Union are living in the UK, according to a survey seen by The Sunday Telegraph. The 291-page report - commissioned by the Brussels commissioner for employment and social inclusion, Laszlo Andor - found there were 611,779 "non-active" EU migrants in the UK last year compared with 431,687 in 2006 - a 42% increase. The total number of jobless migrants is greater than the population of Glasgow. While between 2005 and 2006 the growth of non-active EU migrants in the UK stagnated, since 2006 it has been steadily rising, the report said. Immigration UK Week Promo The newspaper said the number of people arriving without employment had increased by 73% in the three years to 2011. It said the figures meant the annual cost to the National Health Service amounted to -L-1.5bn. The details emerged as a poll indicated there was strong public support for an early referendum on withdrawing from the European Union. The opinion poll for the Mail On Sunday found more than half of voters want a referendum on the UK's membership before the next election. While nearly two-thirds support a vote in the Commons on the issue as early as next month, almost half said they would vote to quit the EU if a poll went ahead in 2014. Prime Minister David Cameron has pledged to hold a referendum by 2017, but has dismissed the idea of holding it before the next general Election in 2015. Boris Johnson has said he would like to see a longer waiting time between migrants arriving in the UK and being able to claim benefits. 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Find out more about cookies Tell us what you think of GOV.UK No thanks Take the 3 minute survey This will open a short survey on another website Press release Proposals to reform migrant access to health and housing unveiled Organisations: Department of Health and Home Office Page history: Updated 3 July 2013, see all updates 3 July 2013 12:05pm First published. 3 July 2013 12:05pm The next step in cross-government plans to make it more difficult for illegal migrants to live in the UK unlawfully, and to ensure legal migrants make a fair contribution to our key public services, has been launched today. placeholder Migrant contribution to healthcare Currently, short term migrants coming to study or work with more than six months on their visas are likely to qualify for free hospital care as soon as they enter the UK. A charge would ensure that migrants contribute towards the cost of their healthcare while not increasing red tape and administration for NHS professionals. The Government will consult on plans to introduce the levy as an upfront charge and whether private health insurance could be a good alternative. A levy could be paid at the time of applying for their visa or further stay for non EEA temporary residents who are allowed to stay for up to five years. Views will be sought on the level at which this levy should be set and how private insurance could play a role. Better checks, tracking and charging in the NHS We will consult on plans to make sure those who should pay for NHS services do so by working with doctors and others to get their views on a range of new initiatives. The consultation proposes: * stopping those visiting for less than six months from getting free access to GP surgeries by introducing charging, as currently used in hospitals; and * a new registration and tracking system for chargeable visitors before they first join a GP surgery – possibly linked to the NHS number, alongside better checks to enforce charges for care in both hospitals and sustainable primary care. The consultation aims to create a system that is fair for everyone without denying treatment to those whose health is in immediate danger or a risk to public health. Proposals also include: * improving the way the NHS claims back EEA visitors’ treatment from their home countries; and * giving expatriate UK citizens access to free NHS care after they have paid up to 10 years of National Insurance contributions. It is unclear how widely migrants use the NHS and the true cost and impact they have. In order to gain a better understanding the Department of Health has commissioned an independent audit of use by visitors and temporary migrants that will run alongside the consultation and report back in September. Landlord checks to tackle illegal migration We will introduce a requirement for landlords to check the immigration status of tenants. The checks will be simple and light touch but enable enforcement officers to take additional action against rogue landlords by introducing a penalty for those who break the rules. The changes will benefit communities blighted by unlawful structures, so-called ‘beds in sheds’, and overcrowded houses that can bring social problems and costs to local communities. They will be modelled closely on existing controls for the employment of illegal workers, which are well established and have operated successfully for the last five years. The government proposes a graduated enforcement approach - with proportionate penalties for those landlords who make a single honest mistake, and much heavier penalties, up to £3,000 per tenant, for rogue landlords who repeatedly and deliberately break the law. The Home Office also plans to offer landlords support in checking documents through an enquiry service. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt said: We are clear that the NHS is a national health service not an international health service and I am determined to cut out abuse in the system. We need to ensure that those residing in or visiting the UK are contributing to the system, but we want work to implement a system that limits red tape and administration for NHS professionals. The NHS is a national treasure and we need to work with the entire health system to develop plans and make sure it is sustainable for years to come. Immigration Minister Mark Harper said: The government is determined to build a fairer system and to address the public’s concern about immigration. The proposals will form part of the Immigration Bill, to be introduced later this year, which will tighten immigration law, strengthen our enforcement powers and clamp down on those from overseas who try to abuse our public services. By reducing access to free NHS care and rented accommodation for illegal migrants, we will make it more difficult for them to stay in the country leading to more returns and removals. This Bill is the next step in the radical reform of the immigration system which has led to a reduction in net migration - now at its lowest level for a decade. Background 1.The government will publish three consultations today seeking views on these proposals: a. The Department of Health is issuing the consultation “Sustaining Services, ensuring fairness: A consultation on migrant access and financial contribution to NHS provision in England.” It can be found here b. The Home Office is issuing two consultations: “Migrant Access to Health Services in the UK” and “ Tackling illegal migration in privately rented accommodation” . 1. For further details contact the Department of Health press office on 020 7210 5010 or the Home Office on 020 7035 3535. Share this page * Share on Facebook * Share on Twitter Published: 3 July 2013 Updated: 3 July 2013 + full page history 3 July 2013 12:05pm 3 July 2013 12:05pm First published. Organisations: Department of Health Home Office Is there anything wrong with this page? Help us improve GOV.UK Please don't include any personal or financial information, for example your National Insurance or credit card numbers. 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Users registered with ESDS - what you need to know | Home | ESDS | A-Z index | Site map | Contact | Register/Login | Search: Search text_________ GO ESDS Government logo - link to ESDS Government home page ESDS Government About Data Themes Resources News Events Which service? [Select service_________] APS home Datasets Resources Citing this data Variables Registered Uses Other surveys Usage of the Annual Population Survey search usage________ Search This page contains information from users who have downloaded the APS data and who have agreed to have their project information shared. You can opt to be included or to amend the details held for you by changing your project registration. * Immigration in theUK – Dr Cinzia Rienzo (National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) – dna). January 2013 I have used the LFS extensively in the past and aim to use those to carry research on immigration in the UK. My research will mainly focus on immigration and the labour market, providing statistics and figures about characteristics and outcomes of migrants in the UK. * Productivity components and growth – Dr Bob Butcher (National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) – Productivity and economy). January 2013 The purpose is to build a fuller understanding of productivity and employment gain and firm dynamics, drawing out implications for policy. The approach will be econometric analysis of how groups of factors affect firm productivity and employment growth. Initial questions will be how economic churn varies according to whether plant or firm is the unit of analysis and according to firm size and other factors. * Job polarisation in the UK – Dr Andrea Salvatori (University of Essex – ISER). January 2013 The study will look at the changing occupational structure of the UK labour market and analyse how this relates to changes in wage inequality. The study will also consider the relationship between changes in occupational structure and several aspects of job quality. * Examining UK employment – Professor Neil Conway (Royal Holloway; University of London – Management). January 2013 I am writing an academic paper and I need to find descriptive statistics for the public sector (gender, age, managerial level, part-time/full-time). I wish to see whether a public sector dataset I have collected compares with a representative sample of UK public sector workers. * Flexible aging – Professor John MacInnes (University of Edinburgh – Sociology). January 2013 Examining the diversity of expereince of aging and its implications for well being and state expenditures by going beyond traditional measures such as the 'dependency ratio' calculated using ages only. Other surveys used: APS. * Public Health Intelligence – Miss Peninah Murage (Department of Health – Department of Health). January 2013 I work as an Information Analyst in Public Health and my role is to support different policy areas in public health. These policy areas include, 'Health, Work and Well-being', Health inequalities, Sustainability, Migrant Health, Alcohol and Tobacco reduction, Healthy weight among others. Other surveys used: APS. * Non EU Born Immigrants resident in Portmosuth Integration Project – Miss Vicky Toomey. January 2013 Public Health Portsmouth has been tasked with providing baseline data for Portsmouth City Council Gateway Portsmouth Project which is aimed at helping new immigrants to integrate with local communities. The project will recruit volunteers from the community and help them to develop and pass on knowledge of local resources such as English Language classes and support in areas like employment, housing and health. And it will also provide links to community organisations that might be relevant to new immigrants. * ESRC funded CCCEP centre – Mr Nicholas Jagger (University of Leeds – Centre for Climate Change Economics and Policy). January 2013 Analysis of housing condition and SAP values to determine the extent to which poor conditions (especially damp) might influence the effectiveness of retrofit insulation measures. The work aim to build on Tovar (2012) The Structure of energy efficiency investments in the UK housholds and its average monetary and environmental savings, Energy Policy, in press. Other surveys used: BSA EHS. * Labour market flexibility in the Service Sector: Occupational pattern in post-industrial societies – Dr Alison Koslowski (University of Edinburgh – Social Policy). January 2013 The data will be used for the UK chapter of an international book project "Labour market flexibility in the Service Sector: Occupational pattern in post-industrial societies". * Youth Unemployment in Scotland – Dr Roger Cook. January 2013 The initial purpose is to track the changing nature of youth unemployment in Scotland from 1992-2012, in particular to understand if the recent rise has simply seen more young people unemployed, has deepened unemployment in particular already excluded groups or has brought new groups into unemployment. * Market-facing public sector pay – Dr Nigel OLeary (Swansea University – Economics). December 2012 The Chancellor of the Exchequer announced in the Autumn Statement of 2011 that the public sector pay free freeze would come to an end in 2012/13, with public sector pay awards of 1 per cent planned over the next 2 years. Evidence from the IFS was quoted which revealed a public/private sector pay premium of around 8 per cent and which found substantial differences in the regional pay premium. The importance of public sector pay for public sector finances has grown in importance as the size of the public sector has increased. The cost of financing the public sector wage bill has important implications for fiscal policy, either being financial through taxation or borrowing. The recent recession and accompanying public sector deficit again brought to the forefront issues surrounding the size of public sector and the pay of public sector workers (not just in the UK but across the globe resulting in public sector pay freezes or pay cuts). Given employment and wage rates vary across the country and public sector wages are generally negotiated nationally this can lead to labour market rigidities leading to unemployment. Aims: 1. Examine the size of the public/private sector pay differential over time at a UK and a regional/local level. 2. Understand the implications for Wales of a decline in the size of the public sector. 3. Analyse the role of the public sector. * Effects of the Licensing Act 2003 on Mental Health Problems – Dr Maria Navarro Paniagua (Lancaster University – ECONOMICS DEPARTMENT). December 2012 The aim of the project is to analyse the effect of the Licensing Act 2003 on Health Problems. The Licensing Act allows pubs to open and serve alcohol after 11pm and this is likely to have negative effects on individuals' health. Other surveys used: BHPS HSE FES Vital Statistics. * Provision and use of preschool childcare in Britain – Mr Charlie Owen (Institute of Education (IOE); University of London – Thomas Coram Research Unit). December 2012 Little research has so far been conducted which brings together the needs of parents, of the formal childcare workforce and of informal carers. This study will combine information about the users (parents) and the providers of childcare, both formal and informal. It will do this through a secondary analysis of a number of large-scale, national quantitative datasets. The aim of this research is to inform understandings of the future shape of childcare provision and usage in Britain. We will investigate the coverage and characteristics of childcare usage and provision and the childcare workforce (formal and informal) through a secondary analysis of large-scale national quantitative data. Other surveys used: FRS. * Poverty and Statistical Matching – Mr Rhys Davies (Cardiff University – Wales Institute for Social and Economic Research; Data and Methods). December 2012 The purpose of the project is to explore whether statistical matching techniques can be used to assign household level indicators of poverty from the HBAI data set on to the LFS Household dataset. Other surveys used: HBAI. * Geographies of work and wellbeing – Dr ADAM WHITWORTH (University of Sheffield – Geography). December 2012 To analyses the geographies of paid work, welfare to work and their consequent outcomes in terms of employment transitions, income and wellbeing. To produce a quantitative analysis of work-welfare cycling in the UK taking into account local area characteristics (e.g. local labour market context). The research has three phases: 1. Describing and modelling those who are at risk of cycling between low pay jobs and benefits; 2. Developing a classificatory framework to group individual experiences of welfare-work cycling into more readily theorised group patterns; 3. Building multivariate regression models to assess the wellbeing implications of broken work spells. Geocodes are required in order to build regression models with contextual variables, for example, local labour market conditions. It will be necessary to have geocodes in order to attach area level descriptors. Such factors are clearly crucial to individual's employment outcomes. Other surveys used: APS. * Exit polls and teaching statistics – Dr Jurgen Essletzbichler (UCL – Geography). November 2012 Exit poll data are crucial for designing targeted electoral campaigns. Much of that targeting is based on quantitative analysis and use of statistics. Because of the recent elections it is an excellent way to get students interested in quantitative analysis, demonstrate how questionnaires are designed, samples are taken and how information from questionnaires is translated into datasets that can be analyzed. * Update on the qualifications; training and demographics of the UKâs entrepreneurs – Mr Nigel Hudson. November 2012 This research will update findings from two previous analyses of APS/LFS data on qualifications, training, ethnic origin, gender and age of people working self-employed or running enterprises with fewer than twenty employees. This will be used to inform decisions on qualifications development and funding. Other surveys used: APS. * Academic paper: What is the value of a PhD? – Miss Sharon Baute. November 2012 As a junior researcher at the University of Ghent I'm interested in this data because it allows me to investigate the value of a PhD in comparison with a master degree. I'm investigating careers of doctorate holders. This data can be of great value because it's international and it contains a large number of respondents. In addition I'm interested in health, work-life-balance, job satisfaction etc of doctorate holders. * Labour Force Survey – Mr Jonathan Richards. November 2012 The labour force survey and annual population survey are used by the Government Equalities Office to analyse the labour market, primarily for gender differences and inequalities in employment, occupations and pay. This is used for ad-hoc internal analysis to inform policy. Other surveys used: APS. * Disease Prevalence and Resource Allocation – Dr Alex Gibson (University of Plymouth – Applied Psychosocial Studies). November 2012 To use Small Area Estimation (SAE) methods to estimate the prevalence of cardiac and mental health disorders in MSOA and GP populations. To contrast these local estimates of disease prevalence against health service utilisation data to test the extent to which health needs are being met by the NHS in different areas and with respect to different population cohorts (e.g. by age and/or ethnicity). To explore the causes of inequalities in health and health service utilisation. The project's overall objective is to identify and explain local variations in the uptake of cardiac and mental health services relative to the underlying need for such services. Data on the use of health services are now widely available but evidence on the health needs of local populations is more problematic and studies of health care equity have been beset by methodological difficulties associated with establishing expected levels of health service need. Our approach is to use data drawn from a range of cross-sectional and longitudinal surveys to construct a series of mixed-effects models to describe the risk that different types of person living in different areas will experience particular cardiac or mental health conditions. Applying model parameters to local population co-variates allow us to generate robust estimates of the health needs of those populations and these are then compared with the subsequent utilisation of appropriate health services. Other surveys used: HSE. * The cost of job loss in the UK – Dr Richard Upward (University of Nottingham – School of Economics). November 2012 Analysis to measure the effect of job loss on subsequent employment and earnings. We aim to follow individuals and their household members from 1991 onwards. * Academic research – Dr Catherine Harris (University of Sheffield – ICOSS). November 2012 The data is required for a paper which investigates the presence of self-employed Polish migrants in the UK. It is needed to look at the distribution of the migrants, their dates of entry into the UK and their geographical location. Other surveys used: APS. * Worker Reallocation in the UK – Dr Carlos Carrillo Tudela (University of Essex – Economics). November 2012 I want to explore worker reallocation across occupations and sectors in the UK. The main purpose is to explore the long-run characteristics of these changes and their business cycle characteristics. This exercise is part of a bigger project in which I am analysing the effects of the last recession in unemployment for the UK. * Measuring Unfunded Obligations of European Countries – Dr Jagadeesh Gokhale. November 2012 Data to be used to calculate average labour income, capital income, consumption, asset and other series by age and gender to distribute national tax and spending aggregates by age and sex. Per-capita transaction items will be projected forward using population projections to make budget projections for future years under current fiscal policies. Other surveys used: SILC EFS IHS FRS NICHS. * Women Adding Value to the Economy (WAVE) – Dr Luke Sloan (University of Plymouth – School of Social Sciences). October 2012 This data will be used in a project titled 'Women Adding Value to the Economy' in which we will measure changes in pay between men and women over time in Wales controlling for: PT/FT, casual/permanent, public/private sector. The microdata will be used for detailed analysis of the gender pay gap in Wales focusing specifically on: part time/full time work, casual and permanent work, public and private sectors, hourly wage and location. We also wish to identify in which sectors the pay gap is most significant and will use the SOC2000 codes in the special license version of the dataset to allocate respondents to particular sectors of the economy that differ to the sector options in the standard APS data. Other surveys used: APS. * The effect of weather on mortality – Dr Maria Navarro Paniagua (Lancaster University – ECONOMICS DEPARTMENT). October 2012 We would like to analyze the effect of weather on mortality. To be more specific we are interested in studying the effect of expected and unexpected cold on mortality. This analysis will be conducted at a regional or postcode level. Other surveys used: Vital Statistics NTS. * A National Strategic Skills Audit (NSSA) – Mr Jose Vila-Belda. October 2012 To identify current and emerging skills needs across the Welsh economy, with a particular focus on economic growth sectors, to inform government skills policy. The report will consider changes in the nature of drivers of future demand for and supply of skills, synthesise evidence from a range of existing datasets on skill supply and demand. It will consider likely variations in trends, drawing on research commissioned into the low carbon economy, financial services, digital media, advanced manufacturing, engineering/construction and biomedical/life sciences, as well as other industrial sectors. Other surveys used: EFS APS. * Secondary analysis for research – Mr Ross Bond (University of Edinburgh – School of Social and Political Science). October 2012 Access various datasets (including but not limited to British and Scottish Social Attitudes and election surveys and Annual Population Surveys) as basis of research publications, primarily related to national identities and their variation by national location, ethnicity, religion, and political attitudes. Other surveys used: BSA APS SSA BCS. * Distribution of Income – Mr Rhys Davies (Cardiff University – Wales Institute for Social and Economic Research; Data and Methods). October 2012 To extend the analysis of the Atkinson 2005 and Brewer et al (2008) to examine the proportion of total income held by the top 1% of the income distribution. This data cannot be extracted from published statistics as distribution of income is examined in terms of income bands rather than percentiles of the income distribution. The analysis is being conducted in the context of the growing regional divide in the UK. * Employment Inequalities in NI – Dr Marina Shapira (Edinburgh Napier University – Employment Research Institute). October 2012 This dataset is required for a project on Employment Inequalities in Northern Ireland. This project will look at long term trends in employment inequalities between different equality grounds in Northern Ireland. In particular we want to see in these trends are being affected by the economic recession. This project is going to utilise all available relevant datasets which have time series data for Northern Ireland and/or the UK and have detailed information on individuals, including their community background, attitudes and the labour force characteristics. Other surveys used: APS NICHS NILTS. * Child outcomes in cross-national perspective – Professor Lucinda Platt (Institute of Education (IOE); University of London – Centre for Longitudinal Studies). October 2012 This project forms part of a wider, four-country study of early child outcomes. This part of the project focuses on the UK and looks at family background and early child outcomes using measures that harmonise with child cohorts from New Zealand, Ireland and Australia. * Happiness; health and unemployment – Professor David Blanchflower (University of Stirling – economics). October 2012 To continue my ongoing work on how happiness, health and unemployment have changed in the UK economy and why. I am especially interested in cross country comparisons. A particular puzzle is why unemployment hasn't risen as much as I expected. Other surveys used: WHS APS. * Labour market trends – Claire Crawford (Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) – Education; Employment and Evaluation). October 2012 This project will investigate labour market trends over the last 30 years, particularly over the course of the recent recession. We will complement the use of LFS data with a more detailed description of changes to hours, wages and earnings using NES and ASHE data. This project will paint a detailed picture of the UK labour market since the recent recession and contrast it with the experiences of previous recessions. We know from aggregate data sources that employment has been quite resilient compared to previous recessions, real wages have fallen, and unemployment hit young people more than older cohorts. From the micro data, we will be able to see how employment, hours and wages evolved by gender, age group, education attainment, qualification level, industry, region and family type (e.g. lone parents). We are particularly interested in transitions of employment status and how that is associated with individual characteristics. We would like to link individuals over time so as to answer questions such as what kind of employees are more likely to become redundant, in terms of their age, qualification, job tenure, etc. * Social housing residents anlaysis – Mr Paul Braidford (University of Durham – Business School). October 2012 We are undertaking an analysis of social housing residents in Northumberland. The IHS data will allow us to compare the characteristics of the residents with the population of the county as whole. Other surveys used: IHS. * Training in Recession: Extension – Professor Francis Green (University of Kent – Economics). October 2012 This is an extension of the previous Training in Recession project, in which we are tracking the participation of workers in work-related training before, during, and hopefully after the recession. Since the recession has been prolonged it is necessary to prolong the analysis. Moreover, we are examining the long-term decline in training and need the most up to date surveys for this purpose. * Assessing the economic impact of BTEC qualification in conjunction with higher education qualifications – Mr Pietro Patrignani. September 2012 To assess the higher education related outcomes and the labour market outcomes achieved by individuals in possession of undergraduate degrees attained in conjunction with BTEC qualifications compared to the outcomes achieved by individuals with undergraduate degrees and other forms of entry qualifications (such as GCE 'A' Levels, RSA/OCR). * Step families – Mr Charlie Owen (Institute of Education (IOE); University of London – Thomas Coram Research Unit). September 2012 The Household dataset from the Labour Force Survey will be used to identify houeholds with foster children. These households will be compared with other households with children who are not foster children. The characteristics of foster carers will also be identified. * The cyclicality of employment and wages – Dr Jennifer Smith (University of Warwick – Economics). September 2012 The research will use microdata to investigate the cyclicality of separations and hires using statistical and econometric analysis. There are two parts to the research. The first will examine employment cyclicality at firm level and will assess the relative influence of hiring and separation rates using matched data on individual employment changes. The second will investigate whether it is wage rigidity among new hires or general wage rigidity that is most influential in employment fluctuations. * Unemployment dynamics and Mismatch in the UK – Dr Jennifer Smith (University of Warwick – Economics). September 2012 The study will examine unemployment dynamics in aggregate and amongst various subgroups of the population. Unemployment dynamics will be considered in an accounting sense and also in models derived from search and matching theory. * Training; work and wages – Professor Andrew Dickerson (University of Sheffield – Economics). September 2012 We plan to evaluate the effect of training at time t on hours worked and wages (or the change in wages) at time t+1. We will possibly also evaluate the effect of training at time t on occupational changes to look at whether training moves people up the occupational hierarchy. * Effects of Central and Eastern European emigration on the UK labour market – Dr Sara Lemos (University of Leicester – Economics). September 2012 The UK was one of only three countries that granted free movement of workers to nationals of Central and East European countries following the enlargement of the European Union in May 2004. We will describe the key features of this migration flow 'one of the largest in British history' and evaluate its impact on the UK labour market using panel data techniques and two years of monthly micro level data. * Children; Young People and Families Workforce Analysis – Mr Christian Milhan. September 2012 I am conducting analysis of the Children: Young People and Families Workforces for internal purposes for the Department for Education. I would like to use the LFS to gain insight into the number of FTE in specific workforces such as Youth and Community Workers (SOC 3231) etc. * Employment of mothers and fathers – Professor KEVIN MILLIGAN. September 2012 I am comparing employment rates of men and women with young children. I am doing these calculations for the UK as well as for other countries (US, Canada). I will compare the gap of employment between mothers and fathers through time. * Minimum Wages in Britain – Professor Richard Dickens (University of Sussex – Economics). July 2012 The impact of the National Minimum Wage on the wage distribution. The pay distribution has narrowed in the UK at the bottom since the minimum wage was introduced. I will examine the role of the minimum wage and other competing explanations. * Moving on up – Miss Laura Gardiner. July 2012 Analysis of low pay /no pay cycling and work progression for people with recent experience of unemployment or economic inactivity. Analysis to inform policy as to the issues facing Londoners in this position and to compare with other parts of the UK. Work progression in this context includes economic variables (wage progression), occupational change and changes in autonomy in work. * Local Incomes and Poverty in Scotland and England – Professor Glen Bramley (Heriot-Watt University – School of the Built Environment). July 2012 The purpose of this work is to develop and test a practical method for providing estimates of income distribution patterns and poverty levels at local and small area levels for Scotland. The project will: establish an analytical framework to provide modelled estimates of household income levels and distributions, including poverty measures, for local authorities and small areas in Scotland; provide insight into the determinants of local incomes; extend understanding of poverty; deliver a clearer localised picture of income distributions and poverty, particularly in relation to rural areas, and the likely impact of welfare reform; understand differences between different sources and estimates of poverty. Other surveys used: EHS NSW LIW. * Regional and Local Variations in UK Word-Related Sickness Absence – Dr Alan Buckingham (University of Bath – School for health). July 2012 The aim of this study is to describe regional and local variations in work-related sickness absence in the UK. The first part of the study will be to map out these geographical variations, down to local authority level. Little analysis of geographical (below region level) variations in sickness absence has been completed and, therefore, a major part of the study will simply be to describe such variations and identify 'hot spots'. The second part will be to examine the key explanatory variables which might account for such variation. These include socio-demographic, labour market and employment-related variables. Analysis will examine trends between 2009 and 2012, yearly patterns and quarterly evidence. Other surveys used: APS. * Good Places Better Health – Mr Martin Taulbut. July 2012 To support the itelligence strand of the Scottish Government Good Places Better Health Initiative. The prototype phase focuses on improving aspects of the environment which impact on the health of children aged 0-8, specifically asthma, mental health, unintentional injuries and obesity. Other surveys used: SSA SCS SMOKING; DRINKING AND DRUG USE AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE; 2010 SCOTTISH SCHOOLS ADOLESCENT LIFESTYLE AND SUBSTANCE USE SURVEY; 2006 SCOTTISH HOUSE CONDITION SURVEY; 2002 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 2010 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 2009 GHS BSA SURVEY OF SUGAR INTAKE AMONG CHILDREN IN SCOTLAND; 2006 BRITISH SOCIAL ATTITUDES SURVEY; 1983-1998 : EMPLOYMENT DATA FRS HBAI. * Labour market analysis – Mr Tao Zhang (University of Nottingham – School of Computer Science). July 2012 We are doing an analysis to understand the impacts of the immigration on the UK regional labour markets. We need the data from 2000 to 2012. * Young people's lives and futures – Dr Vikki Boliver (University of Durham – School of Applied Social Science). July 2012 This small mixed-methods research project explores what the lives of young people are like today and how young people perceive their prospects for the future. The quantitative component of the project will involve an analysis fo Labour Force survey data for the period 2007-2012 to explore how the economic crisis has affected young people's labour market participation. Other surveys used: APS. * Evolution of knowledge intensive business services – Dr Andrew Johnston (Sheffield Hallam University – Business School). July 2012 Am currently undertaking some research on the development of knowledge intensive business service (KIBS) firms in the UK. This dataset is of interest as it augments the current census of employment/ABIU data I have been looking at. * Background data analysis – Mr Nicholas Garrott. July 2012 Need to access UK labour employment trends to better understand UK economic rebalancing needs. To provide the bank's chief economist with the background statistics necessary for more advanced analysis of the topic. * Body work – Dr Rachel Cohen (University of Surrey – Sociology). June 2012 Investigating changes in the proportion and kinds of people involved in 'body work' over time. Body work includes all work in which a worker works on (touches, moves, manipulates) the body of a client, customer or other person. * Disability demographics – Ms Cate Fisher. June 2012 We plan to use this data to get a better idea of the profile of the disabled population in the UK. This will include a look at the age, gender, ethnicity, income and employment profile of this population, amongst other variables. Other surveys used: FRS HBAI LOS. * NHS Outcomes Framework – Mr Matt Holton. June 2012 As part of the NHS Outcomes framework performance indicators are measured using data from various sources. The Labour Force Survey is one of these data sources and will be used to measure performance of Surrey PCT and emerging Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs). * Exploratory analysis of relevance to social care research – Dr Shereen Hussein (King's College London – Social Science; Health and Medicine). June 2012 Initial exploration for potential use in relation to social care research including labour market and workforce participation, social care workforce well-being, migration and care work and long term care needs among older adults. Other surveys used: HSE. * Training and Labour Market Transitions in the UK and Portugal – Dr Hilary Ingham (Lancaster University – Economics). June 2012 The work will look at the relationship between training and labour market transitions in the UK and Portugal. Particular emphasis will be placed on the extent to which those individuals who have undertaken lifelong learning are better able to move between labour market states than those who have not undertaken such training. * The Impact of the Equality Act 2010 on Labour Market Participation – Dr Scott Hurrell (University of Stirling – Institute for Socio Management). June 2012 An MSc student project I am supervising is planning to look at the employment outcomes of one or more protected groups (i.e. groups that share a protected characteristic) before and after the Equality Act 2010. The LFS is the best source for this data. * Updating social mobility work – Professor Ian Walker (Lancaster University – Economics). June 2012 Estimate the extent to which parental background (education and income) affects GCSE success of children using IV methods. Consider how this relationship may have changed over time. Investigate how this differs by child gender. * Financial Times Reports – Mr Christopher Cook. June 2012 The FT is running a series on the geographical distribution of UK education effects. These datasets are to help explore the teachers' labour market, to see whether there are any discernible differences between London and the northern cities in particular. Other surveys used: FRS. * A further cost-benefit analysis of apprenticeship – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). June 2012 This work will extend my previous cost-benefit analysis of apprenticeships in the UK; to add the period 2009-11. This will reveal whether the previous high NPV of apprenticeships has continued. * Wage flexibility in the British Labour Market – Professor David Bell (University of Stirling – Economics). April 2012 This study is intended to determine whether wage flexibility in the British labour market changed during the recession and whether this moderated the rise in unemployment that has taken place since 2008. One of the more interesting features of the behaviour of the UK Labour market since 2008 has been that unemployment increased by a significantly smaller amount than was predicted given the experience of past recessions. The change in employment has been much smaller than the change in output, suggesting that Okun's Law has been modified or at least temporarily set aside. The purpose of this research project is to try to understand mechanisms by which this might have happened. Other surveys used: FRS. * Academic research – Professor Tommaso Valletti (Imperial College London – Business School). April 2012 The purpose is to conduct an academic study the on impact of the diffusion of high speed Internet access on wages, productivity and inequality in the UK. The time period from 2005 to 2010 will be considered. * Trends in earnings for low earners – Mr Matthew Whittaker. April 2012 The Resolution Foundation exists to improve the outcomes for people on low to middle incomes. As part of our investigation of changes in the experiences of members of this group and the key role played by earnings, we are analysing trends in earnings amongst low earners. Other surveys used: HBAI IIS TimeUse INSTITUTE FOR FISCAL STUDIES HOUSEHOLDS BELOW AVERAGE INCOME DATASET; 1961-1991 FRS EHS. * Innovation research – Mr Paul Oroyemi. April 2012 Exploratory research on skills and innovation. This study aims to contribute to the body of knowledge establishing the required conditions that enhances product and process innovation. Other surveys used: SURVEY OF EMPLOYMENT TRIBUNAL APPLICATIONS; 2008 UNITED KINGDOM SURVEY OF SMALL- AND MEDIUM-SIZED ENTERPRISES' FINANCES; 2008 Omnibus. * Social cohesion and mental health in Wales – Dr giles greene (Cardiff University – Dept of Primary Care and Public Health). April 2012 The data will be used to generate area-level (LSOA) values of social cohesion using items from the Neighbourhood cohesion scale (Buckner; 1988). These LSOA social cohesion scores will then be combined with mental health outcome data from the Welsh Health Survey. The research aims to establish examine the association between perceived community cohesion and mental health. Multilevel logistic models will be used due to the clustered nature of the Understanding Society sample to account for the non-independence of observations within neighbourhoods. The data will be used to derive an area-level score of social cohesion in Wales. This will be achieved by combining the data from Understanding Society, Living in Wales: Household survey and the National Survey for Wales. This will allow a pooling at the area-level of around 30000 data points using some of the items from the Neighbourhood cohesion scale (Buckner; 1988). Other surveys used: NSW LIW WHS. * Graduate earnings over time – Dr Sin Yi Cheung (Cardiff University – Social Science). April 2012 This study investigates the changing returns to degree education over time in Britain. It explores the changing 'value' of a degree since the 1970s to contemporary Britain, especially against the background of rapid expansion of higher education in the early 1990s. It also compares graduate earnings for both genders and returns to education between and within occupations. Other surveys used: GHS. * Longitudinal Study of Young People in England – Dr Jianxun Kong (University of Manchester – Institute of social change). April 2012 To conduct a comparative study of social mobility between Britain and China. Other surveys used: GHS LSYPE. * Impact of increasing the female State Pension Age on employment and earnings of older workers – Mr Carl Emmerson (Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) – Public finances and pensions). April 2012 This project will examine the impact of the rise in the female State Pension Age that began in April 2010 on the labour market activity of those women affected by the change. This will include both those women directly affected and also the behaviour of their partners. The outcomes that we will explore are: whether or not the individual is in paid work, their hours of work, their earnings, whether they consider themselves to be retired and whether they are in receipt of any income from the state. * Precarious Employment in Germany and United Kingdom – Mario Daum. March 2012 I will examine precarious employment in Germany and the UK. Especially temporary work, fixed-term contracts, part-time jobs and minijobs (below 400 EUR). * Education and Labour Market Outcomes – Dr Pamela Lenton (University of Sheffield – Economics). March 2012 Looking at education qualifications and in particular, degree classifications and then at subsequent labour market outcomes. Do individuals use their subject of study in their jobs or are they over educated. Are you more over educated for given classes of degree. * Social stratification – Mr Colin Mills (University of Oxford – Sociology). March 2012 Investigations into the social stratification arrangements of major states. The particular focus is on the UK and other major European states. Of special interest is data about social class and social mobility. Other surveys used: BSA. * Examination of the Electronics Industry – Mr Stephen Clarke. March 2012 I am currently engaged in some research into the British electronics industry and require the Labour Force Survey to determine how many people work in the industry and in ancillary occupations. * Academic use – Mr zhiheng liang (Cardiff University – business school). March 2012 I am a final-year student in BSc banking and finance. In the course of Econometrics I will conduct an empirical project to explore what factors influence individuals wage rate. I need the data to develop a regression. * Means Testing Study – Mr Martin Malinowski. March 2012 My request relates to a National Audit Office Study on Means-Testing. I would like to conduct detailed analysis of the distributional effects of means-testing on the survey sample, with a view to assessing the success of means-tested benefits at targeting transfers to low-income groups. Other surveys used: FRS HBAI. * Place based inequality and group based inequality – Ms Kirsten Besemer (Heriot-Watt University – School of the Built Environment). March 2012 The purpose is to do some background research for a short piece of work on socio-economic, place and equality group approaches to inequality. Other surveys used: SHES SSA. * Labour Market research – Professor Nobuko Okuda. March 2012 I will the data for my research on labour market of immigrants and second generation of ethnic minorities in the 1970s and 1980s. Most of my articles based on this research will appear in Japanese. Other surveys used: GHS BCS70. * Library use – Mr Stephen Ratcliffe (Cardiff University – Library). March 2012 I wish to view the data and to see if it contains data relevant to a query from an academic on levels of local government employment in Wales in 2008. * Analysing the Interaction of the National Minimum Wage eith the Tax and Benefits System – Dr Paola De Agostini (University of Essex – Institute for Social and Economic Research (ISER)). March 2012 The data will be used to assess the impact on national minimum wage workers and the households in which they live of recent and likely future changes to the personal tax and benefit system in the UK. Other surveys used: FRS. * Impact of the introduction of the NMW Apprentice Rate – Dr Stefan Speckesser. February 2012 With "modern" Apprenticeships gaining momentum and many companies introducing new programmes, wages paid in Apprenticeships affect an increasing number of young people. Following recommendations of the Low Pay Commission (LPC), a National Minimum Wage Apprentice Rate (NMWAR) at £2.50 an hour was introduced in October 2010 and increased to £2.60 recently. This research project will be very important to understand how the introduction of the NMWAR affected important outcome variables such as take up and completion of Apprenticeships, pay levels and the composition of the total Apprenticeship remuneration. Findings will be of great significance for both the Government Skills strategy and for the LPC to inform recommendations of future pay levels for Apprenticeships which affect ever increasing numbers of young people in the UK. Other surveys used: YOUTH COHORT STUDY: ENGLAND; COHORT THIRTEEN; SWEEPS ONE TO FOUR; 2007-2010 APS. * Research – Dr Patricia Melo (Imperial College London – Civil and Environmental engineering). February 2012 The main aim of this research is to improve the current understanding of the empirical relationship between agglomeration externalities and productivity by exploring some of the main challenges left open by previous research. These current research issues can be grouped into the four topics, which set out the scope for the research conducted: 1. Potential endogeneity bias in empirical estimates of the productivity gains from agglomeration economies as a result of (i) reverse causality between productivity and agglomeration economies; and (ii) self-selection of agents into higher productivity areas; 2. Sectoral differences in the productivity gains from agglomeration economies; 3. Spatial decay of the productivity gains from agglomeration economies; and 4. Sources of the productivity gains from agglomeration economies. * Pensions and ethnic minorities – Dr Athina Vlachantoni (University of Southampton – Centre for Research on Ageing). February 2012 The data will be used to explore the pension arrangements among older people from ethnic minorities. The LFS data will inform analysis relating to basic state pension arrangements, while the Understanding Society data will inform analysis relating to occupational and private pension arrangements. Other surveys used: FRS. * PhD supervision on labour market discrimination – Dr Marco Ercolani (University of Birmingham – Economics). February 2012 I am supervising Mr Kai Wai HUANG on his PhD thesis looking at various aspects of discrimination in the UK and US labour markets. This discrimination may occur along gender, ethnic or other characteristics. * Pension Policy Modelling – Mr John Adams. February 2012 Data used internally within the Pensions Policy Institute for modelling the effects of potential and actual reforms to pensions policy on the extent of government expenditure and on distribution of benefits. Other surveys used: APS. * Social networks and occupational structure – Dr Paul Lambert (University of Stirling – Applied Social Science). February 2012 Seeking to apply and compare social network analysis, and social interaction distance analysis, to survey data on social connections between occupations. By exploring the empirical patterns of social connections between occupations we anticipate obtaining useful information about the nature of the social stratification structure and the relationship between social stratification and other social structures. Other surveys used: Omnibus SHES BHPS. * Trade union research – Rachael Mcilroy. February 2012 Trade union research to support pay bargaining in the NHS and evidence to the NHS Pay Review Body. For the Royal College of Nursing and on behalf of other NHS trade unions. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Modelling demand for low skill/low pay labour – Rebecca Riley (National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) – NIESR). February 2012 The objective of this research is to estimate labour demand models for low skill/low pay labour in order to inform the discussion around the employment trade-offs associated with moving to a Living Wage. * Barts and East London Hospital Trust Merger: an Equalities and Human Rights Impact Assessment – Asif Afridi. January 2012 We have been commissioned to conduct an equalities and human rights impact assessment by the NHS team responsible for overseeing the merger of the three London Trusts (Barts and the London, Whipps Cross University, and Newham University NHS Trusts). The aim of the research is to identify issues that will significantly impact on the health inequalities of residents potentially affected by the merger. This exercise will enable the parties to resolve issues identified by the EHRIA as potentially unlawful, discriminatory towards, or having a negative impact with respect to the protected groups identified in the Equality Act 2010. Integrated Household Survey (IHS) data is being requested to identity demographic data pertaining to the three relevant local authorities. Other surveys used: IHS. * NHS outcomes framework requirement – Mr Michael Moloney. January 2012 As part of the NHS Outcomes framework, performance indicators are measured using data from various sources. The Labour Force Survey is one of these data sources and will be used to measure performance of the Yorkshire and the Humber SHA. * Comprehensive Balance Sheet – Mr Robert Gilhooly. January 2012 We aim to create a comprehensive balance sheet as an extension to the generational accounting framework. The comprehensive balance sheet aims to: 1. introduce capitalised future income and expenditure to give an indication of sustainability; 2. split the private sector into current and future generations to address intergenerational fairness; 3. record the environment as a capital asset which both generations can consume, while sustainability allows for substitution between different forms of consumption. LCF/EFS data is required to create income and consumption profiles by age. This is similar to the work carried out by Khomen and Weale (2008) "Are we living beyond our means? A comparison of France; Italy; Spain and the United Kingdom". Other surveys used: EFS FES. * Interegeneration Transfer of Education – Dr Vincent O Sullivan. January 2012 This project will use UK LFS data to look at the effects of paternal education, paternal earnings and maternal education on the educational outcome of their children. To identify a causal effect we will use an IV strategy which will exploit the raising of the school leaving age in 1970s Britain and union membership. * Studying income and expenditure – Dr John Simister (Manchester Metropolitan University – Economics). January 2012 I wish to analyse income and spending data for two purposes: focusing on whether inequality (the gap between rich and poor) has increased in recent decades and on gender issues (women's earning and spending: do women spend money differently to men?). Other surveys used: EFS FES. * IFS Green Budget – Ms Wenchao Jin (Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) – NA). January 2012 One chapter will examine the differences in pay and pensions between the public and the private sectors using the Labour Force Survey. * Teaching research methods for human resources – Dr Caroline Chapain (University of Birmingham – Business School). January 2012 The Annual population survey data will be used to familiarise students with analysing it with SPSS. This will be part of research methods course for an MSc in Human resources. * Labour market outcomes for STEM occupations – Professor Matthew Harrison. December 2011 We are conducting our own internal research on the labour market outcomes for people with STEM qualifications and for those working in STEM occupations - with a focus on engineering. * The effects of the current economic crisis on the unemployed: A comparative study of the UK; Denmark; France and Spain – Dr Daniel Guinea-Martin. December 2011 In this research project we aim at analizing the changing composition of the unemployed in the four countries cited in the title in the period 2002-2011. We will distinguish between the short- and long-term unemployed. We have bought the EU-LFS data from Eurostat but in some years the UK data has almost half its sample with missing values in the variable with weights. Also, the UK sample does not contain the category 'Looking after family' in the economic status variable. Maybe we can overcome these difficulties in the EU-LFS database by looking at the British data directly. * Labour market assessment – Peter Glover. December 2011 To inform the preparation of a labour market assessment for the UK. The purpose of this study is to understand the UK position relative to international competitors, its current skills and performance challenges and patterns of skills investment. Other surveys used: APS. * SEBI: Sub-rnational economic and business intelligence – Ms Hilary Metcalf (National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) – Employment Policy). November 2011 The study is developing regional economic and business forecasts through analysis of a wide range of data sources. Forecasts will look at business trends, employment, output and investment. * Department of Health Board Paper Update – Miss Sarah Woodrow (Open University (OU) – Workforce Intelligence). November 2011 Skills for Care have been asked to provide a paper to the Department of Health board providing an overview of the demographic diversity of the adult social care workforce. We plan to use the Labour Force Survey to provide a workforce comparison to the adult social care workforce data already held by Skills for Care. * The Governance of Resilient Urban Form – Ms Sabina Uffer (London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE); University of London – LSE Cities). November 2011 We will use the data for a LSE Cities Centre research project on the governance of resilient urban form. Timeless Cities: resilient urban form and governance in the creation of long-term value. The core theme of this project is 'resilience' a concept which is explored primarily in terms of urban form, though also in the context of the ways in which dynamic relations of urban authority, property ownership, financing and development shape both form and its uses over time. * Academic research – Dr John Kitching (Kingston University – Small Business Research Centre). November 2011 The aim of the study is to examine a particular LFS quarterly dataset to identify freelance working mothers. * Marriage and Relationships – Mr Nigel Williams. September 2011 To study the effect of marriage on other life circumstances, and in the effect of other life circumstances and effects on marriage, beginning with unemployment but potentially branching out wider. * Thesis supervision – Mr Colin Love (Imperial College London – Business School). September 2011 I am supervising a postgraduate student's thesis which requires data analysis of employment data for male / female workers in the UK. This is part of a social survey to determin drivers fo female employment in the UK. * Well-being and inflation – Professor David Bell (University of Stirling – Economics). September 2011 This study is intended to examine the trade-off between unemployment and inflation measured in terms of their respective effects on well-being. It will mainly focus on the Euro barometer datasets to develop consistent estimates of the impact of unemployment and inflation on the well-being of the citizens of different European countries. Other surveys used: EFS SHES HSE SSA BHPS. * Health and population analyses – Dr Paul Norman (University of Leeds – School of Geography). September 2011 This work investigates socio-demographic and area type variations in health outcomes, both self reported and diagnosed. A variety of datasets are being used here, from survey resources like the HSE, GHS and LFS and population resources like the Vital Statistics. Other surveys used: HSE GHS. * Wage impact of an earned income tax credit – Mr Gawain Heckley. September 2011 The aim of the project is to estimate whether or not working families tax credit and subsequently working tax credit and child tax credit impacts on the wages eligible families accepted. Economic theory would suggest yes; all else held constant. It follows from the common finding in the literature that tax credits in the UK have generally raised employment levels. But have they entrenched low wage work? * New employment forms – Professor David Marsden (London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE); University of London – Management). September 2011 To examine changing patterns of employment status in different occupations and particularly patterns of 'extended entry tournaments' and of network building in occupations whose traditional entry paths have eroded since the early 1970s. * Checking employment rates – Mr Barry Fong. September 2011 Looking to see the proportion of households with someone aged between twenty and sixty five in great britain in 2010. This will then be used to help us decide what an optimal field work startegy would be. Other surveys used: APS. * Apprenticeships – Mr Joe Perkins. September 2011 This work is to contribute to a National Audit Office Value for Money study into apprenticeships. As part of this we would like to know the sector in which individuals carried out their apprenticeships (in order to tell if there are differences between sectors). This variable is only available under special licence. * Travel Agent Research – Miss Emma Rose Hurst. September 2011 Research into the employment and recruitment of Travel agents and how the market has changed especially with the financial crisis. We want to separate Travel agents and tour operators which most data combine. * Employment in establishments classified as social enterprise – Mr Dan James. August 2011 The study is a basic descriptive study to examine the characteristics of those defined as employed in social enterprises. The work utilises the new variables SOCENT; SECSOC and SOCOTH introduced in 2010 quarters. A simple pooled wave 1 and 5 dataset will be constructed for 2010; and descriptive analysis of the relevant variables produced. The work is primarily intended to understand if and how the LFS can be used as a data source on understanding social enterprise. * Economic Modelling – Dr Keshab Bhattarai (University of Hull – Business School). August 2011 I have been working on the general equilibrium modelling and eocnometric analysis for UK and other countries for more than ten years. Other surveys used: HSE BCS APS EFS IIS NTS EHS. * Private sector growth analysis – Ms Hilary Stevens (University of Exeter – Marchmont Observatory). August 2011 Analysis of the potential of the private sector to generate jobs for redundant public sector workers. Working with the South West RDA to provide analysis and guide to data sources for the Local Employment Partnerships. Other surveys used: APS. * Effects of breastfeeding on children's outcomes – Dr Emla Fitzsimons (Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) – Economics). August 2011 The causal effects of breastfeeding on children's outcomes such as health and cognitive development are little understood. The problem is that breastfeeding is a choice made by parents and so any associations between breastfeeding and outcomes may be confounded by broader socio-economic factors. Even if we control for these as best we can there is still the concern that there are unobserved factors that simultaneously affect the decision to breastfeed and children's outcomes. The aim of this project is to identify the causal effects of breastfeeding on children's outcomes, including cognitive and non-cognitive measures and health. We will identify the causal effects of breastfeeding on children's outcomes using the method of instrumental variables, a technique that recognises that breastfed and non-breastfed children would have different average outcomes even regardless of whether or not they were breastfed, most likely because they differ in background characteristics. The method involves modelling the breastfeeding decision, as a function of all important characteristics in the decision. We believe hospital of birth to be one such important factor. Indeed there is much heterogeneity in UK hospitals in terms of breastfeeding support. Other surveys used: MCS MATERNITY SURVEY; 2007 QUALIFIED NURSES; MIDWIVES AND HEALTH VISITORS SURVEY; 1993 SURVEY OF NURSING PAY; CONDITIONS AND JOB CONTENT; 1987. * The third sector workforce – Professor Stephen McKay (University of Birmingham – Social Policy). July 2011 Analysis of the composition of the workforce. A particular interest in the balance of activity in the non-profit sector. Trends in third sector employment. Who works in the third sector and the consequences for labour market outcomes (wages; training; hours). Other surveys used: NATIONAL SURVEY OF THIRD SECTOR ORGANISATIONS; 2008 APS. * The Care Life Cycle: Responding to the Health and Social Care Needs of an Ageing Society – Dr Richard Shaw (University of Southampton – School of Social Sciences). July 2011 The UK's population is ageing and, given that older people are the major users of health and social care services, this presents a major challenge for policymakers. As well as increasing the demand for care, population ageing is affecting the supply of care professionals, as the health workforce itself ages. Datasets will be used to inform models predicting the demand for Health and social care and the workforce available to meet that demand. Other surveys used: ELSA SURVEY OF SELF-FUNDED ADMISSIONS TO CARE HOMES; 1999-2000 GHS HSE ADULT PSYCHIATRIC MORBIDITY SURVEY; 2007 UKHLS. * Training and labour market progression – Dr Sin Yi Cheung (Cardiff University – Social Science). July 2011 This study extends analysis of the previous project with the same name. We analyse trends and patterns of access to job-related training and if it leads to labour market progression. One of the reasons for our reanalysis is due to the reweighting of the LFS data. * Apprenticeships – Mr Andrew Epps. July 2011 We are carrying out a study into the effectiveness of the Department for Educations's apprenticeships programme. The LFS will be used to provide information on numbers of people with apprenticeships and to estimate the effect having an apprecinticeship has on lifetime earnings. * NW Mental Health Strategy review – Mr Jason Pickles. July 2011 I am interested in getting access to the supporting data tables to help inform a paper I am drafting related to the recent Mental Health strategy "No Health without Mental Health". I am specifically interested in knowing the results findings in the North West and how these compare more widely. * An evaluation of basic skills training in Wales – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). July 2011 I have a dataset on a group of individuals who have engaged in basic skills literacy and numeracy training. The research will match these people to a control group of similar individuals from the Labour Force Survey in order to compare their labour market outcomes. * Health Needs and Resource Allocation – Dr Alexander Gibson (University of Plymouth – School of Applied Pyschosocial Studies; Faculty of Health). July 2011 To use the HSE to investigate socio-economic and regional variations of morbidity with a view to evaluating equity of resource allocation methodologies and to develop 'bottom-up' resource allocation methodologies (particularly with respect to meeting mental health needs). Other surveys used: HSE. * Attractiveness of European regions and cities for residents and visitors – Dr Ian Smith (University of the West of England – Department of Planning and Architecture). July 2011 As part of a project looking at the relationship between characteristics of regions and their capacity to attract flows of people (such as migrants), I would like to use the ad hoc modules to see whether motivation for migration varies by region and by length of time since migration (distinguishing between recent and lifetime migrants). I would also like to generate some regional (areal) statistics that we can link to place-based characteristics that we have generated in the broader project. * Modelling wealth taxes – Ms Kayte Lawton. July 2011 This project is looking at the feasibility of constructing a model of wealth in the UK among different family types using existing data sources. If we find that there is sufficient data on wealth ownership and transfers in the WAS and/or other household surveys, the next stage of the project will involve constructing the model. In order to do this; we need to draw on existing datasets containing information about wealth ownership and transfers within different households. Other surveys used: HSE FRS ELSA GHS HBAI EFS. * Employment of refugees – Dr David Owen (University of Warwick – Institute for Employment Research & Centre for Research in Ethnic Relations). June 2011 The aim of this project is to investigate how successful refugees from different parts of the world are in gaining work. The analysis will investigate the role of skills, qualifications and other personal characteristics in gaining employment, the types of sector employing refugees, whether refugees are over-qualified for the work done and the level of geographical mobility. * Disability-induced employment penalties: explaining trends 1998-2010 – Dr Victoria Wass (Cardiff University – cardiff business school). June 2011 The GHS 1974-2004 shows a generally widening employment gap between the disabled and non-disabled working age population at least until the turn of the century. More recent evidence from the LFS suggests that the gap is narrowing but no evidence from GHS since 2006 is available and there are signs (Baumberg 2011) that the GHS and LFS show different trends. The purpose of this study is to chart and unpick this recent trend. In order to extend this trend until the present day we need access to the General Lifestyle Survey. We will treat the data as cross-sectional data to aid comparability to the earlier GHS, looking at the rates of disability and the employment penalty associated with it. Once we have established the trends we will consider explanations for this including: 1.Observable characteristics of the groups may have changed (education, age etc); 2.Size and composition of the disabled group may have changed (condition, severity of disability); 3. Employer treatment of the disabled may have changed (DDA etc); 4.Changes incentive to work (disability benefits/tax credits etc). We intend to estimate a probit model which would enable us to control for (1) and possibly (2). Other surveys used: HSE. * Labour Force Survey – Ms Adela Xu. June 2011 The data required is for analysis of disability figures, in terms of the population, health statue, housing condition, employment rate and education level compared to their non-disabled peers. * Background research for PSE Survey – Ms Kirsten Besemer (Heriot-Watt University – School of the Built Environment). June 2011 "Poverty and Social Exclusion in the United Kingdom" is a major research project launched in May 2010 and the research will be completed in 2013. The research will develop and repeat 'Poverty and Social Exclusion Survey in Britain in 1999' which itself followed 'Breadline Britain in the 1990s' and 'Breadline Britain 1983'. It will therefore be the fourth in a series of nationally representative surveys that use a consensual measure of minimum necessary living standards and direct measures of material and social deprivation rather than solely relying on proxy income data. * Higher Education Participation – Dr Gill Wyness (London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE); University of London – Centre for Economic Performance). June 2011 This is ongoing research into the impact of fees, grants and loans on higher education participation in the UK. I use the LFS to explore how university participation has changed over time in response to changes in fees, grants and loans. Other surveys used: FRS. * BARSORI report – Dr Melanie Simms (University of Warwick – WBS). June 2011 Bargaining for Social Rights is a project looking at how the interests of precarious workers have (or have not) been represented in social dialogue and collective bargaining over the past 10 years or so. The LFS data is essential background information about the nature and duration of certain forms of precarious work. * International migration database – Ms Anne Lund. May 2011 The data on foreign population stocks in the UK by country of origin and/or by country of birth will be used for analyses of international migration across OECD countries, determinants and consequences of the international migration. * Extending working life and Attitudes to pensions – Dr Alan Buckingham (University of Bath – School for health). May 2011 To review and summarise what is known of public attitudes and behaviour regarding working life - including pensions and provision for retirment, summarise and interpret key findings and establish insights into decision making. Other surveys used: BSA ELSA. * Time-series demographic trends – Dr Paul Norman (University of Leeds – School of Geography). May 2011 This research investigates changes in cross-sectional, longitudinal and geographic demographic trends over time. This research includes considerations of variations in fertility, health and migration by ethnic group and social class. Other surveys used: GHS. * Evaluating EMA – Dr Arnaud Chevalier (Royal Holloway; University of London – Economics). May 2011 Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) was introduced in England in September 2004 but existed as a pilot in 50 local authorities since 1999. EMA provided 16-19 year old whose parents' income was below a threshold up to £30 a week if enroled in secondary education. The project is to use the pilots as control areas to estimate the effect of EMA on post-16 educational enrolement. We thus compare enrolment in pilot area and in the rest of the country, before and after the policy was introduced nationally. To conduct this project, information on unitary authority and month/year of birth is needed which is why we would like to use the Special License issue of the LFS for 2003; 2004 and 2005. * Economic impact of tolls on the Severn crossing – Dr Ian Smith (University of the West of England – Department of Planning and Architecture). May 2011 I would like to do some simple descriptive analysis on Labour Force Survey data in order to explore the relationships between commuting distance, SIC, SOC, self-employment and region. * Women in deregulated labor markets – Miss Gesine Tuitjer. May 2011 I'm looking for data covering the economic and demographic situation in Europe between 1950-1990. I focus on the incidence of flexible labour and fertility. To illustrate the parallel processes of change for both the labour market and the social real of the family. * Who are the White British Muslims? – Mr Muhammad Brice (University of Wales Trinity Saint David). April 2011 This study aims to build a demographic and socio-economic profile of the minority etho-religious group "White British Muslims". This group is of interest as it represents a minority within a minority (representing some 3% of the Muslim population, which in itself represents some 3% of the total population), but is also a sub-group of the dominant majority ethnic group (White British). The profile will be compared to that of the majority ehtnic group and also to that of the religious group "Muslim" in order to gain a better understanding of just who the White British Muslims are. Other surveys used: APS BSA Vital Statistics NSW EHS. * LPC report on MW during the recession – Mr Andera Salvatori (University of Essex – ISER). April 2011 We will look at the effect of the minimum wage during the recession on both the employed and the unemployed. We will look at job retention probabilities and changes in hours for the employed and job finding probabilities for the unemployed. * Exploring socio-tenurial polasrisation – Dr R Tunstall (London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE); University of London – SOC POL). April 2011 I want to explore changes in economic activity of those in different housing tenures over time, to understand further the data presented by John Hills of LSE in his 2007 review of social housing. * Material deprivation – Professor Stephen McKay (University of Birmingham – Social Policy). April 2011 Poverty is sometimes measured using material deprivation indicators - either in addition to income, or instead of income. These have a history dating back to (at least) the 1968-69 Townsend study, with occasional one-off surveys to update. An investigation into their changing scope over time and link to income. Other surveys used: FRS LOS MORI LIVING IN BRITAIN POLL; 1983 MILLENNIUM SURVEY OF POVERTY AND SOCIAL EXCLUSION; 1999 POVERTY AND SOCIAL EXCLUSION IN NORTHERN IRELAND; 2002-2003 RELATIVE DEPRIVATION AND SOCIAL JUSTICE; 1962 EFS NATIONAL CHILD MEASUREMENT PROGRAMME; 2009-2010 NTS. * Compare approaches to analysis of complex survey data – Dr Pedro Luis do Nascimento Silva (University of Southampton – S3RI). April 2011 Part of a project to compare approaches to fit models to complex survey data. We shall fit models using various approaches to the LSYPE data from several waves and will report on issues underlying each model fitting approach and how they compare for this data set and models. Other surveys used: EFS LSYPE. * Migration and the allocation of social housing – Professor Richard Dickens (University of Sussex – Economics). April 2011 The project we propose will examine the allocation of social housing and its links with migrant populations. Specifically we will examine whether there is apparent discrimination in the allocation mechanism and how this might be related to political support for minority parties at the local level. It is a common belief among the white British population that the allocation of social housing is unfair, that preference is given to immigrants. But in spite of the importance of this issue; we have little in the way of accurate quantitative evidence on whether immigrants are more or less likely to be in social housing. In our proposed research we will use the Labour Force Survey to investigate the factors associated with being in social housing. Other surveys used: EHS SEH. * Lone mothers then and now – Ms Tina Haux (University of Essex – ISER). April 2011 Analysing Marsden's study of lone parents in the 1960s to explore the understanding lone parents had of themselves in terms of their roles as parents, workers and members of an extended and disjointed family and to compare that to their understanding today. Other surveys used: FACS. * Academic Research – Mr David Pritchard (University of Portsmouth – Institute of Criminal Justice Studies). April 2011 I want to use this LFS dataset to undertake some background research. I am interested in researching the OBR's forecasts for general government job reductions. I am particularly interested in assessing the LFS's variables such as Industry and Occupation classification, age, and length of tenure. * The Economic Impact of Tolls on the Severn Crossings – Dr Ian Smith (University of the West of England – Planning and Architecture). April 2011 I will use the data to explore the relationship between commuting decisions (using the Severn Crossing) and labour market characteristics (age, gender, occupation). I will be analysing the labour market issues at full economic cost for the team as a whole. * Polish immigrants in Greater London – Miss Jadwiga Galka. March 2011 The aim of my research is to explore areas of concentration, spacial mobility and social distance between Polish and others immigrants in the Greater London. The project thesis concerns issues of the migration of Poles to Great Britain after Poland's enlargement to the European Union. The main goal is to track and predict current and future changes in Poles' residences within the metropolitan area, their regions of origin, socio-demographic structures, and relations with other ethnic groups in London. Other surveys used: APS. * Labour market discrimination research – Mr Muhammad Anees. March 2011 The data will be utilized in the detailed discussion of labour market discrimination in the UK and cross sectional estimation techniques would be implemented following standard oaxaca-blinder techniques for differential analysis along with the recently developed counterfactual distribution techniques developed by Machad0-Mata (2005). Other surveys used: HSE EFS GHS BSA ELSA IHS UKHLS. * Introduction of under-occupation penalties to Housing Benefit – Mr Alex Fenton (University of Cambridge – Land Economy). March 2011 In June 2010; the new UK government proposed to reduce Housing Benefit payments to tenants of social landlords who 'under-occupy' - i.e. occupy a dwelling which is smaller than the legislation deems them to require. This research will attempt to quantify the numbers and key characteristics of those affected; especially with reference to London. Other surveys used: APS IHS. * Ageing Population – Professor Tom Cannon (University of Liverpool – Management). March 2011 Engaged in study of effects of ageing population on North of England specifically impact on business formation rates at a regional and local level. This to included rates by age; gender and ethnicity of owners and managers. Other surveys used: APS. * The causal relationship between education; health and health related behaviour: Evidence from a natural experiment in England – Dr Nils Braakmann (Newcastle University – Business School - Economics). February 2011 Exploitation of a natural experiment in England that creates discontinuities in educational attainment between January and February born individuals. Use that to shed light on causal relationship between education and health. Other surveys used: HSE. * Employment – Dr Jesus Canduela (Edinburgh Napier University – ERI). February 2011 Investigating the factors affecting the transition from unemployment into employment. Other surveys used: SCS SHES NILTS NICHS IHS. * relative income/earnings and life satisfaction in the UK – Dr Tim Hinks (University of the West of England – Economics). February 2011 Use the postcode data in order to generate relative income terms to be used in happiness equations. Previous work uses relative income terms based on region; province or occupation. The paper would test whether neighbourhood is a better reference group. Other surveys used: IHS BCS. * Wealth Inequality and Social Policy in Britain – Professor Stephen McKay (University of Birmingham – Social Policy). February 2011 There has been relatively little thinking; debate or investigation about âwealthâ within the social policy community; which has instead focused on poverty. However; there is a strong case for greater thinking and investigation of wealth; and its implications for wider inequality and social policy development. The report of the National Equality Panel has drawn attention to disparities in wealth ownership; and other research (e.g. Dorling; Wilkinson) indicates the potential effects of inequality on a range of social outcomes. I propose to use this data to consider different approaches to conceptualising and measuring wealth; and to compare/contrast its distribution with that of other measures of material well-being (such as income). The effects of different kinds of wealth (pensions; physical; housing) will also be considered. Other surveys used: FRS ELSA BSA. * Transitiona across 1991 and 2001 ethnicity classifications – Mr Peter Aspinall (University of Kent – Centre for Health Services Studies). February 2011 Use of LFS Two-Quarter Longitudinal Dataset; October 2000-March 2001 to look at transitions from the 1991 Census ethnic group classification to that for the 2001 Census amongst the same cohort of survey respondents. * Review of Licences to Practice and Their Impact – Mr John Forth (National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) – Employment Studies). December 2010 The project will estimate the incidence and the labour market effects of licences to practice and other government-sponsored forms of occupational regulation through econometric analysis of the Labour Force Survey and Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings. We will first map all licences to practice at SOC(2000) Unit Group level. We will then apply this mapping to the LFS data in order to estimate the incidence of such licenses to practice (including among subsest of the workforce). We will also estimate the impact of licences to practice on wages; skill acquisition and employment. * Happiness; health and unemployment – Professor David Blanchflower (University of Stirling – Economics). December 2010 examine how the welfare of the UK population is dealing with the onset of the great recession. This is a broad based project involving looking at depression, happiness as well as underemployment with emphasis on the young. Other surveys used: BSA SHES HSE FRS NCDS WHS LOS Omnibus. * Labour Economics: Theory and Applications – Dr Marco Ercolani (University of Birmingham – Economics). December 2010 This course provides an introduction to labour economics and econometrics. We will seek an understanding of key labour market phenomena, both analytically and empirically. We will provide a foundation in modern labour economics methods in order to enable students to evaluate research in labour economics and to use its insights in their analysis of labour market policies. Other surveys used: EHS. * Liverpool Labour Market Accounts – Mr Ben Lonsdale. December 2010 A study of labour market dynamics within the Liverpool City Region (LCR). This requires extensive modelling of labour market data. LFS data is the best source of data for this study and we need to access LFS data by quarter since 2002; or 2005 at the earliest to the current quarter of data. * Monitoring quarterly employment and unemployment dynamics since the onset of jobs crisis – Mr Pascal MARIANNA. December 2010 These data will be used for the purpose of monitoring quarterly employment and unemployment dynamics since the onset of the jobs crisis for various demographic groups: youth; older workers; women; individual attributes (such as level of education completed) and job characteristics. * Validation of own survey data – Dr Giles Atkinson (London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE); University of London – Department of Geography and Environment). November 2010 To use some of the responses on perceptions of crime to cross-validate with data we have from a survey currently being undertaken; along with colleagues; for a Ministry of Justice project on sentencing Other surveys used: BCS. * International migration data from labour force surveys – Mr Adam Dennett (UCL – Centre for Advanced Spatial Analysis). November 2010 I will be using to the data to review/assess recent international migration statistics. Data from the labour force survey will be examined and compared with other publicly available data on intra-Europe migration. * An Anatomy of Economic Inequality in Wales – Mr Rhys Davies (Cardiff University – Wales Institute for Social and Economic Research; Data and Methods). November 2010 To produce an analytical report that presents a detailed picture of economic inequality in Wales. The report follows on from the 2010 report 'An Anatomy of Economic Inequality in the UK'. Whilst this report had significant policy impact, the report provided only limited evidence of the nature of economic inequality at sub-national level and was not able to provide information with respect to the nature of economic inequality in Wales. The proposed research programme seeks to address this information gap through the production of a NEP-style report for Wales. The analysis will be based upon data used within the UK report and will include sources such as the Labour Force Survey, the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings, Households Below Average Income and the Wealth and Assets Survey. Sources of administrative data pertinent to the analysis of economic inequality in Wales will also be interrogated. We wish to use data from the Annual Population Survey in order to consider the relative economic circumstances of protected groups under the 2010 Equalities Act within Wales (gender, ethnicity, disabled, religious belief). The analysis will focus on employment, educational attainment and earnings. Data on these issues is provided for Wales as part of the Labour Force Survey. However, as the relative number of these groups in our sample is small, we wish to use the Welsh Boost to the Labour Force Survey. Other surveys used: APS BCS. * trade; tasks and technology – Dr Semih Akcomak. November 2010 We conduct research that focus on interpreting the recent trends in employment change. Our analysis for the Netherlands show that changes in the division of labour occur at three different levels: the level of the individual worker; the level of the industry and the spatial level. We aim to extend our findings to the case of UK exploring our framework at a more detailed level * Migrant Diversity and Individual Wellbeing – Dr Simonetta Longhi (University of Essex – Institute for Social and Economic Research). October 2010 This is part of an international project on migrant diversity and regional disparities. In this sub-project we will combine different data sources to analyse the impact that cultural diversity (generated by migration) has on different aspects of wellbeing of natives. * New Authorships? Digital media and the fields of literary publishing – Dr David Brake (University of Leicester – Media and Communications). October 2010 As background to planned research into creative writing and the impact of the advent of Web 2.0 I want to establish its extent and any class or educational status biases. The purpose of the overall research programme of which this data is a part is to understand how what it means to be an author and the practices of authorship and publishing may be changing in the UK in response to the availability of new e-book and printing technologies. The aims are: 1) to examine how writers both inside and outside the field of professional authorship perceive their differing writing practices and their relationship with audiences; the traditional publishing industry and emerging alternative publishing outlets like Blogger; Amazon and Lulu. 2) to establish the skills and backgrounds that the authors have who use such new tools â ânew authorsâ - and whether they differ significantly from those of traditional authors. 3) to analyse the inter-relationships between authors; the new organizations which have emerged that provide alternative means of publishing and traditional publishers. As part of this research; a sample of ânew authorsâ in the UK using alternative means to reach audiences â non-traditional publishers or internet publication - will be surveyed to establish their socio-demographic characteristics including education and primary occupation (where their writing is a second job). * Who and where are the young unemployed? – Dr David Taylor. October 2010 The first part of the study comprises a fairly exhaustive cross-section analysis of the current labour market situation of 16-24 year olds compared with the working age population. The second part of the study consists of a time-series analysis of the labour market situation of 16-24 year olds over the duration of the last economic cycle - from the last recession to the present. * EU population mapping - Sheffield – Mr Owen Jones. October 2010 I am intending to use the data from the international passenger survey to contribute to a mapping of EU and Accession state nationals in Sheffield for Sheffield City Council's EU New Arrivals Service so that we can provide better information for service providers working with EU nationals on a day-to-day basis. * Migration and skills research – Miss Debra Dhillon. October 2010 The aim of this research is to expand our knowledge and understanding of the skills, employment and economic activity of EEA and non-EEA migrants within the context of providing a comprehensive picture of labour and skills supply and demand in the UK, one of the primary functions of the UK Commission. Furthermore, in order to better inform priorities concerning skills shortages/gaps, especially under the operation of a migration cap, the aim is to explore employment and skills measures by sector, occupation (including Skills Shortage occupations), country, region of the UK, type of migrant (i.e. EEA/non-EEA) and over time. This will also enhance our ability to respond effectively, with an appropriate evidence base, to questions on migration and to provide more sophisticated advice on the subject. The only detailed source of employment and skills characteristics of migrant populations is the APS/LFS. Other surveys used: APS EFS. * Regime-switching model – Mr Zoltan Butt (City University London – Factulty of Actuarial Science and Insurance). October 2010 Preliminary investigation into the relationship between number of working hours and amount of bonus payments within industry sectors. It would involve analysing major labour data from the ONS; and also some industrial sector stock market data; and eventually fitting a regime-switching model to this. * PRIMA; EU FP7 project – Ms Marian Raley (Newcastle University – Agriculture; Food; and Rural Development). September 2010 LFS data will be used in a simulation model which is being developed as a tool for ex ante analysis of EU development policies in rural areas, including the dynamics of socio-economic systems. LFS data relating to job mobility at sub-resional level(changes between states of economic activity; and categories of employment)is sought. Other surveys used: APS. * Research – Miss Emanuela Carta. August 2010 I intend to use this data to analyse factors related to self-employment in UK. The final report will use only aggregate data. Other surveys used: APS ELSA TimeUse. * Use for transport research at Loughborough University – Dr Chao Wang (Loughborough University – Civil and Building Engineering). August 2010 The data will be used to analyse the potential demand of Demand Responsive Transport (DRT) in the UK. The research is part of the project: DRT for DRT: Developing Relevant Tools for Demand Responsive Transport. Other surveys used: NTS ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 2000 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 2001 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 2009 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 2002 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 1998 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 1999 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 2008 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 1996 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 1997 EFS ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 1995 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 1993 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 1991 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 1992 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 2010 ROAD ACCIDENT DATA; 1994. * Rapid Impact Assessment: Housing Benefit Cuts and the Private Rental Market (PRS) – Mr Alex Fenton (University of Cambridge – Land Economy). August 2010 A range of changes the calculation Housing Benefit paid to private tenants are being brought in from April 2011 onwards. In many cases these will mean reductions in the amounts paid to tenants to meet their rent. This research will model the effect of such reductions on household income; and provide indications of the number; location and characteristics of households who will move below poverty measures as a result. The study will look at the effects of planned changes to the way that Local Housing Allowance / Housing Benefit is calculated. The government's impact assessment shows from administrative data that around two-thirds of LHA/HB claimants in the private rented sector will receive smaller payments; and the study is intended to identify measures which will mitigate or reduce harmful outcomes for claimants and housing markets. Therefore; it will look further at the effects on current claimants; and on the implications for the development of the private rented housing sector. A major part of the former aim will be met by modelling the effects of the changes on the whole budgets of household / benefit units. This will be used to describe the numbers and broad characteristics of households who are likely to be unable to continue to afford their current rented accommodation. Other surveys used: FRS HBAI SEH. * Training and labour market progression – Dr Sin Yi Cheung (University of Birmingham – Institute of Applied Social Studies). August 2010 This study aims to examine who receives work-related training and its labour market outcomes. A distinction will be made between employer and self-funded training. It also explores variations between different types of 'low-earners' such as lone parents; people with disabilities and ethnic minorities. The outcomes of training include earnings; job satisfaction and transitions into work for the unemployed. * Identifying social and economic push and pull factors for migration to the UK – Dr R Kausar (University of Surrey – Economics). July 2010 The main focus of this study concerns examining the impact that this potential new wave of immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania will pose for the hosting economy; and local communities therein. The project will explore the role of socio-economic and demographic push and pull factors and should provide a rounded perspective on likely settlement patterns of those potential migrants and their occupational choices using estimation techniques based on examining data on recent migration flows to the UK; especially from A8 countries following EU enlargement in 2004. This will be done using the Labour Force Survey (LFS); National Insurance Numbers Issued to Overseas Nationals (NINo); the Worker Registration Scheme (WRS); the International Passenger Survey and Eurobarometer Survey. The significance of the research should provide extensive information for local communities; the general public; academics and policy makers and also by providing an empirically based evidence to enable public opinion to make more informed judgments at the local level. This is a co-funded research project between ESRC and DCLG at 50%. Other surveys used: BSA APS. * An Evaluation of the 'Want2Work' Pilot – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). July 2010 This work will be a continuation of an earlier project in which we evaluated the impact of the Want2Work programme in Wales; which attempted to move individuals from long-term unemployment and inactivity into work. * Pop Music Studies; – Dr Christian Kennett (University of Westminster – Music). July 2010 Background statistical research from 1991 and; where feasible; 2001 Census data to help me analyse patterns of BME representation within academic music departments in the UK; especially those with a musical focus other than Western classical music. Data would be cited in a forthcoming 7;000 word article for Popular Music (UK journal) * Occupational change – Dr Gary Slater (University of Bradford – Development and Economic Studies). July 2010 To analyse secular shifts within the UK occupational structure in the light of the developing 'polarisation' of jobs thesis. This will involve detailed analysis of trends in occupational structure at a detailed level of description. In parallel to analysis of job growth the changing nature of the wage structure will also be investigated. * Trends in attainment – Mr Paul Bolton (House of Commons Library – Statistics). June 2010 Trends in GCSE attainment of white working class boys v suitable comparators, i.e. white working class girls, other ethnic groups with a similar social background. From late 1980s to the present. Other surveys used: APS LSYPE FES. * European comparative research – Dr Guglielmo Meardi (University of Warwick – Warwick Business School). June 2010 Study of migration and employment; for a EU FPT project (www.gusto-project.eu) on uncertainty and labour market policies; including a comparison with Spain (National Migrants Survey) and a focus on the construction and health sectors. * TSRC – Dr Domenico Moro (University of Birmingham – Social Policy). June 2010 What attracts people to working in this sector; and what are the implications for their work identities and career trajectories? How can we understand the nature of relationship between paid and unpaid work in the sector? Are there distinctive ways of managing and running third sector organisations? * Labour Force Survey – Mr Yung Leung (University of Southampton – School of Geography). June 2010 An ESRC-funded project to create spatio-temporal density models of post-census daytime and workplace populations using Quarterly Labour Force Survey data combined with other publicly available leisure; employment and education datasets. Other surveys used: TimeUse. * Income/savings/expenditure of households with university age members/dependents – Mr Joseph Hamed. June 2010 This is exploratory analysis to inform department of business innnovation and skills policy makers about the resources of households with university age or near university age members. We are interested in the income level; sources of income as well as savings behaviour. Other surveys used: FRS EFS. * History of childhood in the twentieth century – Ms Fran Abrams. May 2010 I am gathering information for a history of childhood during the 20th Century; to be published in 2011 by Atlantic Books. In particular I am interested in information about children and work since World War Two - what are the trends with regard to paid work by children in the UK. Other surveys used: FACS. * LIMEW International Comparisons – Mr Willis Walker. May 2010 To produce estimates of the Levy Institute Measure of Economic Wellbeing for the United Kingdom for 1994 and 2000; in order to make international comparisons on household economic wellbeing between the US; Canada; Germany; France and the UK. Other surveys used: FRS FES TimeUse BHPS NTS Omnibus EFS. * Labour Force Surveys – Mr Yung Leung (University of Southampton – School of Geography). May 2010 Population 24/7: space-time specific population surface modelling (ESRC Award RES-062-23-1811) Creation of spatial density models of post-census daytime and workplace populations. Labour Force Survey data to be used in calibrating the workplace density weights based on working time and pattern of the standard industry classification. * Equality and Housing in the UK – Mr Nicholas Pleace (University of York – Centre for Housing Policy). May 2010 A study reviewing existing research and datasets to look at inequality and its relationship with housing. This will include looking at the associations between housing pathways and ethnicity, culture, gender and disability. Other surveys used: HSE. * The ins and outs of UK unemployment – Dr Jennifer Smith (University of Warwick – Economics). May 2010 To construct a monthly panel covering labour market status; wages; and reason for any status change. The project will examine factors behind unemployment fluctuations by decomposing changes in unemployment into those due to inflows (separations; themselves divided between layoffs and quits) and ouflows (job hires). Further stages in the project will investigate whether wage rigidity in either existing job or for new hires lies behind observed cyclical fluctuations in flows. The research studies unemployment in the UK and its determinants; focusing on the role of changes in gross flows. The analysis is statistical and graphical. To analyse the proximate determinants of unemployment; gross flows are used; which requires matching individuals over time. The relevant matching variables are only available now in the Special License Access data. 4-digit SOC variables might also be used in the future. These would be used to aggregate individuals into broad skill categories; to investigate gross flows relating to particular skill groups. In no case would the 4-digit SOC of any individual or small group of individuals be disclosed. Interest would focus on skill groups (with up to ten such groups defined; covering the whole labour force). Journal articles; including in Oxford Review of Economic Policy (2011) and National Institute Economic Review (2011). Presentation to ONS conference on Labour Market Statistics; March 2011. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Interethnic Unions in the EU – Dr Raya Muttarak. April 2010 The data will be used for a postdoctoral project funded by Marie Curie Intra-European fellowship on interethnic unions and consequences of such unions on children's well-being in the EU. The project investigates two main research questions 1) Trends and patterns of interethnic partnerships; and 2) Health and well-being of mixed ethnic children compared to second generation and native children. Other surveys used: FOURTH NATIONAL SURVEY OF ETHNIC MINORITIES; 1993-1994. * Relocation of Public Sector Workers in the UK – Dr Giulia Faggio (London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE); University of London – Spatial Economics Research Centre). April 2010 The 2010 Budget includes an independent review (Ian Smithâs review; March 2010) of public sector relocation in the UK. The Smith Review follows in the footsteps of the Lyons Review (2004) proposing a further relocation of 15;000 civil servants out of the London within the next five year. The Lyons' target of relocating 20;000 civil servants out of London and the South East was achieved almost a year ahead of schedule. According to the government; public sector relocation may answer a multiplicity of purposes: It may result in substantial cost savings (particularly in the long-run); allow the modernization of public services; boost regional development and enhance devolution. The debate on public sector relocation is not new. The first government-sponsored independent review was commissioned in the 1960 (Flemming 1963); followed by the Hardman Review (1973) and by the Lawson-Thatcher review (1988). Notwithstanding the attention given by the Government to the subject; there is no robust evidence on the effects of public sector relocation on the individuals who accepted to relocate and on the individuals who were already living and working in the areas chosen for the relocation (destination areas). The purpose of requesting the Labour Force Survey: Special Licence data is to fill this gap. We would like to trace public sector workers who accepted to relocate; what happened to them in terms of employment; career prospects; family decisions; and consumption patterns. We would also like to trace the impact of these relocations on the individuals who were already living and working in the areas chosen for relocation. Was there a crowing out of private sector activity in favour of the public sector? Were newly graduates more likely to remain and look for work in the area? Was there a reduction in unemployment levels? Was there a multiplier effect of increased consumption in the area? The Government has recently minimised the possible crowding out of private sector activity; claiming a positive impact of increased consumption in the area. We would like to test those hypotheses. Other surveys used: EFS FES. * Migration Impact in Barnsley – Dr Chris Forde (University of Leeds – Business School). April 2010 To identify numbers and patterns in migration in Barnsley; Yorkshire and compare this to patterns in Yorkshire and the Humber and in the UK. The project will gather data on the employment experiences of economic migrants. Other surveys used: APS. * Labour Force Survey derived ethnicity proportions – Dr Lawrence Singer. April 2010 To obtain up to date estimate of ethnicity proportions to compare with those currently available from 2001 Census so that a best estimate of representation of members of Black and Minority ethnic groups compared with those from white groups in the Criminal Justice System can be obtained. * Vulnerable workers: concepts; measures and characteristics – Mr John Forth (National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) – Employment Studies). April 2010 The proposed study will further investigate the nature of vulnerability and its implications for unfair treatment in the labour market using the 2008 Fair Treatment at Work Survey (FTWS 2008). The project will involve a conceptualisation of the notion of vulnerability in employment; compilation of measures of unfair treatment from FTWS 2008 and analysis of FTWS 2008 to identify the characteristics of employees and jobs that are associated with the experience of unfair treatment. Other surveys used: APS. * Skills requirements in Scottish Economy to 2015 – Mr John Houston (Glasgow Caledonian University – Economic Studies & International Business). April 2010 To ascertain the occupational and sectoral composition of the Scottish Labour Market and to predict the qualifications' demand (sub-Degree) between 2010 and 2015 and to comment on the capacity of the certificate-awarding authorities (e.g. City & Guilds; SQA) to meet the apparent demands. * Valuing the Certificated Training Outcomes of the ECITB – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). March 2010 This project will value the outputs produced by the Engineering Construction Industry Training Board (ECITB). In particular; it will use Labour Force Survey data to estimate the wage returns received by individuals who complete an apprenticeship or other vocational qualification; in the ECITB sector. * Changes in union representation – Mr John Forth (National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) – Employment Studies). March 2010 The research will examine recent trends in union membership; along with the impact of government legislation on union membership and the effects of unions on wages and employment in the UK. * LFS Analysis of Temporary Work – Dr Hilary ingham (Lancaster University – Economics). March 2010 To analyse the determinants of flows into and out of fixed-term contarcts in the UK. In particular the work focuses on the characteristics of the individuals that are likely to be in temporary positions and questions whether fixed-term posts lead to permanent jobs or whether they only lead to other short term posts or unemployment. * e-skills labour market analysis – Mr peter hounsome. March 2010 Data is used to provide an analysis of changes in the labour market for IT and Telecoms staff. This analysis is then distributed amongst a variety of users including public/private employers, individuals and educational establishments. Quarterly data from ONS has been utilised in this manner since 2002 and has traditionally been accessed via their own Supercross service (which will be discontinued. Other surveys used: Omnibus APS. * Labour Force Survey 2001 – Dr Vadim Grinevich (University of Cambridge – Architecture). February 2010 The data requested will be used to complete a Social Accounting matrix for the UK as part of an EPSRC funded project on Regional Visions of Integrated Sustainable Infrastructure Optimised for Neighbourhoods * Leeds University – Dr Keith Hurst (University of Leeds – Health and Social Care Centre). February 2010 Labour workforce analysis for Skills for Health and its relation to National Health Service Workforce Planning and Development. These data will be used to benchmark UK areas and indicate when an organisation is an outlier. Other surveys used: APS. * Leeds University – Dr Keith Hurst (University of Leeds – Health and Social Care Centre). February 2010 Labour workforce analysis for Skills for Health and its relation to National Health Service Workforce Planning and Development. These data will be used to benchmark UK areas and indicate when an organisation is an outlier. * Minimum Wage and Recessions – Dr Panos Sousounis (University of the West of England – Economics). February 2010 This study investigates the impact of minimum wage legislation on human capital and labour market outcomes of young low paid workers who enter the labour market during an economic downturn. * Assessing skills needs of the UK Process and Manufacturing sector – Mr Andy Challis. February 2010 Proskills UK is the Sector Skills Council for the Process and Manufacturing sector in the UK and is to assess the current and future skill needs of the industries in our footprint. We use a wide range of datasets to provide information on the size, shape, and skills needs of the industries that we represent. Other surveys used: APS. * Mental Health Profile for Greater Glasgow and Clyde – Dr Deborah Shipton. January 2010 These data will contribute to a project which aims to gather information on mental health and its determinants; including crime; from a broad range of current sources to provide a comprehensive up-to-date understanding of adult mental health issues in the region. This will involve describing non-violent neighbourhood crime; perceptions of local crime; racial discrimination; partner abuse and neighbourhood violent crime in Glasgow and relevant administrative geographies. The project is supported by the Glasgow Centre for Population Health. Other surveys used: APS HSE SHES GHS SCS. * The role of households; neighbourhoods and networks in social statistics – Dr Thomas Suesse. January 2010 I am working at the Centre for Statistical and Survey Methodology; University of Wollongong; with Profs. David Steel and Ray Chambers in a major ARC/ESRC Linkage International project on the role of households; neighbourhoods and networks in social statistics. You can find a brief description of the project here http://cssm.uow.edu.au/projects/index.html#The entitled "The role of households; neighbourhoods and networks in social statistics". We want to investigate several models that use households as explanatory variables for the covariances model. A better specified covariance model should lead to more efficient estimates of the mean-model (the mean of a response variable is also modeled in terms of explanatory variables). A standard approach would be a multi-level model that uses household as a level. We want to investigate more complex models that account for the heterogeneity of households. The BHPS; the general household survey and the Scottish household survey contain detailed information of the complete household and relationships among household members; which can be rarely found. Other surveys used: GHS. * The staff market forces factor component of the resource allocation weighted capitation formula – Professor Stephen Morris (UCL – UCL Research Department of Epidemiology and Public Health). January 2010 The Market Forces Factor (MFF) is part of the weighted capitation formula for allocating resources across NHS hospitals in England. It compensates for unavoidable geographical differences in the cost of providing healthcare services. The present method of calculating the Staff MFF uses the General Labour Market (GLM) method and results from the review of the MFF which was undertaken by myself and fellow investigators and reported in âReview of the Market Forces Factor following the introduction of Payments by Results (2005): Exploring the General Labour Market Methodâ (2006)â. These recommendations were adopted by the Department of Health and are detailed in Report of the Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation; Department of Health 2008. This same team is now being asked to bring the MFFs up-to-date for financial years 2011-2012. Under the present method the staff MFF is estimated using individual level observations on the earnings of private sector employees using the Office for National Statistics (ONS) dataset the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE). The observations are pooled across several years to increase the sample size for each local area and an adjustment for higher responsibility is introduced; where this is estimated using the Labour Force Survey (LFS). The MFF report cited above was written by a team at the Health Economics Research Unit (University of Aberdeen; team members: Professor Robert F. Elliott (PI); Dr Diane SkÃ¥tun; and Dr Ada Ma); along with Professors Nigel Rice (University of York); Matthew Sutton (University of Manchester) and. It is available for download at: http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Managingyourorganisation/Financeandplanning/ Allocations/DH_4108515 The Market Force Factors (MFF) compensates hospitals across England for unavoidable geographical differences in the cost of providing healthcare services. It is often argued that jobs with more responsibilities tend to be found in company headquarters located in metropolitan areas such as City of London. The higher pay observed in those areas are to compensate the employees for the higher responsibilities they held; if this factor is unadjusted the MFF estimated for metropolitan areas could potentially be biased upwards. The MFF are calculated at the Local Authority District (LAD; also known as Unit Authorities) geography level using the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE). * SOM project – Mr Daniel Wunderlich (University of Sheffield – Politics). January 2010 The comparative and cross national study is looking at the politicisation of migration in the UK and analyses whether and how political and discursive opportunity structures affect this process. For further information on the project see www.som-project.eu Other surveys used: APS. * Measure of discriminations on the labor market – Mr Jugnot Staphane. December 2009 The statistical analysis is sometimes used to measure the discriminations on labor market; even if such analyses give only assumptions; contrary to testings. According to categories or classification about ethnic origins which are used for analysis; results can changed. British data propose various questions to define identity. Then it is possible to study how results vary according to the used classifications. * Research paper – Professor Akio Inui. December 2009 I am researching comparative study of labour market change from the end of eities to nineties between UK and Japan. I will use the data for my coming paper in Japanese. * Adult upskilling – Mr Geoff Mason (National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) – Economics). December 2009 Analysis to support project on Adult Upskilling. The principal aims of this analysis will be to explore the determinants of adult (ages 25-64) participation in education and training. * LFS - Variance Estimation for Measures of Change – Dr Pedro Luis do Nascimento Silva (University of Southampton – Statistical Sciences Research Institute). December 2009 The intended use of the UK Labour Force Survey matched quarter datasets is for a research project investigating several alternative estimators of variance for measures of change between adjacent quarters; of same quarters in adjacent years. This project is supported by a research grant from ESRC. * The Labour Market in Scotland – Dr John Sutherland (University of Glasgow – Economics). December 2009 The aim of the project is to examine the impact of the recession on the labour market in Scotland; focussing upon changes in industry and occupation 'stocks' initially; before progressing to analyse transitions between labour market states such as unemployment; unemployment etc. * To inform government research about digital exclusion – Miss Hilary Anderson. December 2009 Ofcom is the UK regulator for broadcast; telecoms and spectrum. Part of its responsibilites relate to understanding why people do have broadband services and thus excluded from online government resources. Ofcom is undertaking research into this and needs a way of matching research data to the UK population - thus requiring access to government large scale survey and census data. Funding - mixture of central government funding and money from broadcast and telecoms licence payers (BBC; ITV; BT etc) Other surveys used: GHS. * Earnings Distribution – Dr Mark Andrew (City University – Finance). December 2009 The intention is to use data sets with labour market information in a research project for the National Housing Policy and Advice Unit (NHPAU) for modelling the earnings distribution at a sub-regional level. Other surveys used: APS. * Inequalities & Health in the BHPS – Dr Cara Booker (University of Essex – Insitute for Social and Economic Research). December 2009 I will be using the BHPS data to explore social inequalities and various aspects of mental and physical health. Other surveys used: BHPS BCS70 NCDS. * Dynamics of Worklessness – Ms Nicki Schiessel. December 2009 This data will be used for a longitudinal study of the demographics of those whose worklessness status has changed in the West Midlands between 2004 and 2008. * PhD Research - OHS – Mr Diego Canciani (London South Bank University – Art and Human Sciences). November 2009 The data will be used to compare the occupational health and safety incidents per 100.000 workers of England and Italy. * Dynamics of Worklessness – Ms Nicki Schiessel. November 2009 Regional research report looking at the dynamics of worklessness in the Region - this element is particularly focused on demographics of people whose economic status has changed over the past year. * Imputing Labour Mobility – Dr Graeme Beale. November 2009 I will be using this data to impute labour mobility. This is part of a project on how people's housing aspirations are changing as a result of the credit crunch. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Examining relationships between age, gender and employment – Dr Wendy Loretto (University of Edinburgh – Business School). November 2009 The data will be used to inform part of a chapter on the interactions between gender and age in employment. The chapter is for a book on managing an ageing workforce. * Studying Quality of Jobs – Mr Luc Cloutier (University of Manchester – School of Social Sciences). November 2009 This project aims to compare job quality in the UK and Canada by using a new typology with LFS's data. We want to compare the job quality's evolution in these two countries during the last decade from a typology wich combines wages, hous or work, skills and stability. * LFS data for analysis 92 - current date – Mrs Angela Townsend. November 2009 I intend to use the data to analyse the changes in occupation, qualification and employment status to support the BIS consultation on advanced manufacturing clusters. Also to analyse occupational profiles for particular sectors to support knowledge about qualifications and employment for particular occupations within science and engineering sectors. * Automotive Retail Sector LMI – Mr Alan Torrance. October 2009 To provide Labour Market Intelligence on the Automotive Retail Sector in line with the requirements of the UKCES and the Institute of the Motor Industry's role as a Sector Skills Council. * ESPON Agglomeration Project – Dr Marianne Sensier (University of Manchester – Economics). October 2009 I would like to access historical local area LFS data on eductional qualification attainment as a % of the working age population in an area (from 1980-1999). * state of working britain – Mr Alex Bryson (National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) – Employment). October 2009 For use in analyses of union density; union wage premium and union joining for a book chapter for 'the state of working britain'; a CEP book to be published by OUP. Other surveys used: BSA. * Designing Sociological Research – Miss Beth Charles (University of Sussex – Soccul). October 2009 I want to know how to use ESDS for any future assignments regarding the Labour Force Survey and I would therefore be able to understand more about the figures provided. * Estimating the number of deaf blind people in the UK – Dr Janet Robertson (Lancaster University – Division of Health Research). October 2009 A review of existing estimates of the number of deafblind people in the UK by the Investigator for the Sponsor (SENSE). Other surveys used: FRS HSE GHS NTS SHES ELSA BHPS APS HBAI WHS NICHS LIW MCS. * Exploring walking and cycling behaviour in Scotland – Dr Yusak Susilo (University of the West of England – Architecture and Planning). October 2009 Has been commisioned by NHS Scotland to map datasets that related with walking and cycling behaviour in Scotland overtime. I am planning to use some multivariate stastistical analysis to explore the relationships between individual socio-demographic; built environment factor and cycling and walking behaviour in Scotland. Other surveys used: SHES BSA APS SSA HSE SEH NTS Omnibus. * ONS omnibus legal service use profile comparison – Miss Victoria Brown. October 2009 This was a survey of adults aged 16+ in England and Wales who had used legal services. Weighting was applied to match profile of legal service users from the ONS Omnibus in terms of gender/age, GOR and use of services. What I need to do is profile the weighted sample and comment on how it compares with the population of England and Wales. Other surveys used: FRS HBAI. * Labour Force Survey Quarterly – Mr Antonino Barbera Mazzola. September 2009 The Evidence and Equality at Work division of the Government Equalities Office will use the Labour Force Survey to analyse the economic outcomes and labour market experiences of different groups of the population. The findings would inform the department, the department's ministers, relevant stakeholders and government policy in general. * Analysis of Transport Data within the Scottish Household Survey – Dr Brian Livingston (University of Glasgow – Urban Studies). September 2009 I want to use the Scottish Household Survey as part of a project which seeks to establish a baseline analysis of transport data for Glasgow ahead of the Glasgow Commonwealth Games in 2014. * COI: Social Care Recruitment Research – Mr Matthew North. September 2009 Tangible Data have been commissioned by the Central Office of Information to research the demographics of key Social Care occupations. This will in turn be shared with the Department of Health to inform a recruitment strategy to plug key gaps within these occupations. * Work Related Training – Dr Jesus Canduela (Napier University – ERI). September 2009 We recently completed a literature review exercise on work related training research. Using this, we have created a set of hypothesis that need to be checked by building a statistical model of work related training. Other surveys used: APS. * Labour Market Conditions – Dr Liliana Hiris (The Robert Gordon University – Accounting, Finance and Economics). September 2009 This research is looking into labour market conditions in Romania, related to the spread in inequality and polarisation of earnings. The question of regional variation in social and labour market outcomes is to be further explored, and changes over time are to be investigated. * Pathways – Miss Louisa Arnold. September 2009 The research project I am affiliated with analyses data from the British Cohort Studies (BCS70). My task is to link the BCS70 individual level data with regional data describing the econimic situation in the year 1986. This way we want to negotiate educational aspirations (BCS70)and local opportunities (regional labor market statistics)in adolescence and see how the latter influences the former. * Pathways – Miss Louisa Arnold. September 2009 The research project I am affiliated with analyses data from the British Cohort Studies (BCS70). My task is to link the BCS70 individual level data with regional data describing the econimic situation in the year 1986. This way we want to negotiate educational aspirations (BCS70)and local opportunities (regional labor market statistics)in adolescence and see how the latter influences the former. * Green jobs – Ms Kayte Lawton. September 2009 Green-collar jobs are well-paid; career track jobs that contribute directly to preserving or enhancing environmental quality. They range from low-skill; entry-level positions to high-skill; higher-paid jobs; but include opportunities for advancement in both skills and wages. Other surveys used: APS EFS FRS. * UK-Poland comparison of disabled employment rates – Dr Victoria Wass (Cardiff University – cardiff business school). September 2009 Foreign nationals injured in the UK through the fault of another are entitled in law to financial compensation to cover future losses including from lost employment chances. Where the injured is returning to his/her country of origin, the courts require information as to their future employment chances abroad as compared to the UK. Employment chances for the UK that are currently used by the courts are estimated using the UK LFS. In order to make comparisons with published statistics in other countries matched statistics for the UK LFS need to be calculated. I am providing advice in a legal case concerning an injured Polish National. I am using the UKLFS Q4 in order to compare UK employment rates by sex, age, disability status, educational achievement (and previous employment status) with those published in Poland in order to advise the courts on an appropriate adjustment to the UK damages calculation where the claimant is returning to his home country of Poland. * Work Related Training – Professor Robert Raeside (Edinburgh Napier University – Emloyment Research Institute). September 2009 The data is required to allow analysis to test hypothesis on work related training which is intended to be part of journal articles. Other surveys used: APS WORKPLACE EMPLOYEE RELATIONS SURVEY; 2004: CROSS-SECTION SURVEY; 2004 AND PANEL SURVEY; 1998-2004; WAVE 2 SCOTTISH HOUSEHOLD SURVEY; 1999-2000 NICHS. * Monitoring poverty and social exclusion – Miss Anushree PAREKH. September 2009 Analysis of trends in low income by various characteristics like family type, age, gender, ethnicity, work status etc. to form an annual report that is released in the public domain. Other surveys used: FRS HBAI HSE BHPS NTS EFS SEH APS Omnibus GHS BCS. * Descriptive Statistics and Econometrics – Professor Peter Urwin (University of Westminster – Westminster Business School). September 2009 Using LFS data to describe how marginal groups progress from unemployment to employment (including self-employment) and also tracking flows in the opposite direction. The aim is to then model these labour flows during different periods of differing labour market conditions. * Pathways – Miss Louisa Arnold. September 2009 The research project I am affiliated with analyses data from the British Cohort Studies (BCS70). My task is to link the BCS70 individual level data with regional data describing the econimic situation in the year 1986. This way we want to negotiate educational aspirations (BCS70)and local opportunities (regional labor market statistics)in adolescence and see how the latter influences the former. * Black Africans in Britain: Integration or segregation? – Dr Lavinia Mitton (University of Kent – SSPSSR). September 2009 Quantatitive research on Black Africans in Britain involving exploring how useful secondary analysis of existing survey data is in accessing the diversity of Black Africans'experience of integration. Other surveys used: SEH GHS. * Intergeneration Mobility Research – Mr Bilal Nasim (University of Bristol – CMPO). August 2009 Researching the dependency of childhood outcomes on parental Socio-economic status. The NCDS is required for this purpose and for research on the composition and determinants of the self employed in the UK. Other surveys used: NCDS BCS70. * Bioscience – Mr Peter Brogan. August 2009 Look at data set for the semta footprint. Labour Market Information Briefing to ensure we include the most relevant/important information in the full Bioscience Skills Balance Sheet that stakeholders would find most useful. Other surveys used: APS. * Interethnic Unions in the EU – Raya Muttarak (University of Oxford – Sociology). August 2009 This projects aims to conduct a cross-national analysis of interethnic partnerships in the European Union. The study focuses on partnerships between natives and immigrants because interethnic union has long been regarded as an indicator of integration. Focusing on the 27 member states of the EU, this research will explore two main themes: 1) trends and patterns of interethnic partnerships; and 2) socioeconomic well-being of offspring of interethnic unions. Other surveys used: GHS MCS APS LSYPE. * Monitoring Poverty and Social Exclusion – Tom MacInnes. August 2009 Monitoring Poverty and Social Exclusion is an annual report New Policy Institute carries out for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. It containss analysis of statistics relating to low income; unemployment; homelessness and education; among other issues. As well as presenting the data in a clear; understandable form; it also carries some commentary on the policy implications of the findings. Other surveys used: BCS FRS HBAI BSA HSE NTS SEH. * Exploring salaries of those working in children's services in the UK – Miss Ruth Puig-Peiro (University of London School of Economics – Personal Social Services Research Unit, Social Policy). August 2009 We try to estimate the costs of provinding parenting programmes in the UK. For this purpose, we need to identinfy the salary of those working in children's services. * Monitoring poverty and social exclusion – Mr Guy Palmer. August 2009 Maintenance of 100 key indicators of poverty and social exclusion both for the UK as a whole and for regions within it. Subjects covered include income, work, education, health, housing, crime and neighbourhoods. See www.poverty.org.uk Other surveys used: NICHS EFS HSE FRS APS LIW BCS SCS WHS Omnibus HBAI FES EHS NSW. * Statistical Research to Improve LFS Estimates of Educational Attainment – Mr David Thomson. August 2009 We have been commissioned to investigate a method of improving estimates of highest qualification held by the working age population, currently derived from Q4 LFS data. * LFS data for dissertation – Miss Spriha Dutt (University of Southampton – Economics). August 2009 I am doing my dissertation on "The Impact of Immigration on the UK Labour Market". My thesis is an extension to a previous study by Dr. Christian Dustmann and the LFS data is the main source of data for it. I need the cross-sectional data on levels of education of migrants and natives in UK and their employment status (whether employed or unemployed) for the period 1983-2008. Other surveys used: GHS. * Expert witness report – Mr Raymond Storry. August 2009 The data is for an experts report in connection with an equal pay case that is to be heard by an Employment Tribunal. My duty is to assist the Court in reaching its decision and not to the client or instructing solicitor. * Effect of Education on Marital Outcomes – Dr Dan Anderberg (Royal Holloway; University of London – Economics). July 2009 In this project we will consider how education affects marital outcomes: if you marry; whom you marry and if the marriage lasts. In the future the project will also consider impact of education on fertility outcomes. Other surveys used: Omnibus BCS70. * Employment in the creative industries Northern Ireland – Dr Tony Dignan. July 2009 The data are to assist in the development of a Digest of Arts Statistics for Northern Ireland. The primary specific use of the data is to estimate a time-series of employment in the creative industries, based on industry, occupation and employment status. Other surveys used: NICHS. * Engineering Skills Balance Sheets – Mr Reg DSouza. July 2009 Engineering skills balance sheets review the demand for skills from employers, the available supply of education and learning, key gaps and mismatches. They play a critical role in aligning the supply of education and training with the needs of employers and the regional economy. Other surveys used: APS. * Learning and Work in Later Life – Stephen McNair (University of Surrey – Political, International and Policy Studies). July 2009 I require access for a study into training and employment of people over 50. We are examining the reasons why participation in training declines with age, and how far it mirrors other age related changes in the labour market. Other surveys used: ELSA. * Determinants of work-related illness and injury with a focus on NHS workers – Miss Priscillia Hunt. July 2009 We will compile statistics on safety, health and well-being in UK workplaces, in health-related professions, and in the NHS. We will use these statistics to predict the likelihood of a person to be injured or ill given certain information (e.g. age, employment occupation, sex, industry sector, region). A special emphasis will be put on workers in different health-related occupations. This analysis is part of a larger project examining health and well-being in the UK. * Impact of disability on employment – Dr Victoria Wass (Cardiff University – cardiff business school). June 2009 Purpose is to up-date previous study based on LFS 1998-2003 which estimates the employment effects of disability. Intention to compare results of UK LFS with LFS for Poland (PLFS) where treatment of disabled is quite different to the UK. Other surveys used: GHS. * Daytime population modelling project – Professor David Martin (University of Southampton – Geography). June 2009 Modelling geographical distribution of daytime populations. Working from 2001 census base; the objective is to created gridded population models for continuous days and times; updated to 2006. ESDS data is being used to provide general profiles of working patterns by industry and used in combination with NOMIS data in order to estimate size of workforce present under different scenarios. Other surveys used: NTS. * The Public Sector and the Living Wage – Dr Paul Seaman (University of Dundee – Economic Studies). June 2009 This analysis will examine the potential costs and benefits of introducing a living wage commitment in the public sector. The analysis will examine the effects of both a UK (national) living wage, and also one disaggregated by region. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Estimation of earning profiles for UK workers – Dr Andrew Hildreth. June 2009 To estimate earnings profiles and earnings distribution of certain types of workers in the UK for potential legal action involving UK workers in US courts. * Life of employment – Dr Mariangela Zenga. June 2009 I'd like to use the data to study the life of employment, in particular I will investigate the job cycle of a person and the period of unemployment. I will use The Dagum distribution (with right and left censored data) to study the distribution of the time of employment and unemployment. Other surveys used: NILFS BCS APS BHPS BCS70 LSYPE. * Research for ESTIC – Dr Andrew Stevens (Anglia Ruskin University – AIBS). June 2009 I intend to use the data to prepare a research report for ESTIC - the Essex, Southend-on-Sea and Thurrock Infrastructure Consortium, for a project investigating the effect of the economic downturn on the various districts and boroughs within the county. * Assessing the the regional economic performance of the North-East – Mr John Pritchard (University of Sheffield – Geography). June 2009 Assessing the the regional economic performance of the North-East, looking at indicators such as education levels, gross disposable household income, New VAT registrations, Employment rates, Unemployment rates, Economic inactivity rates. * Immigrants from Turkey – Dr Ali Tasiran (Middlesex University – Economics and Statistics). May 2009 The data will be used to make an economic analysis of immigrants from Turkey in the UK. The first and second generation immigrants will be studied. Especially, the social integration of the group will be examined. Other surveys used: APS. * Research into the effects of the economic downturn in Essex – Dr Andrew Stevens (Anglia Ruskin University – AIBS). May 2009 Research into the effects of the economic downturn in Essex. The results of the research will be used to improve the infrastructure for organisations supporting the 3rd sector. * Career change by age – Dr Emma Parry (Cranfield University – School of Management). May 2009 An analysis of the factors affecting careers and career changes by age and gender. The purpose of this project is to identify the barriers to older workers career transitions and career progression such as training, health, etc. and to look at differences in these by both age and gender. Other surveys used: GHS BHPS. * Analysis of skill shortage indicators for MAC – Ms Yulia Kossykh. May 2009 To undertake analysis of skills shortages in the UK. That requires access to the LFS at the individual level over time (ideally starting from the early 1980s). * Living Standards During Previous Recessions – Mr Luke Sibieta (Institute for Fiscal Studies – Education, Employment and Evaluation). May 2009 We plan to use data from the LFS to track trends in unemployment amongst different sub-groups of the population, particularly during late 2008 when unemployment began to increase. * Occupational segregations, disability and self-employment – Dr Valerie Antcliff (University of Central Lancashire – Strategy and Innovation). April 2009 The research aims to explore differences in employment status and occupation among those with disabilities who define themselves as self-employed. The study will focus on the distinction between professional and nonprofessional occupations. It will seek to explore the determinents of 'successful' self-employment for those with disabilities. * Health of migrants and access to health services – Dr Hiranthi Jayaweera (University of Oxford – Centre on Migration, Policy and Society). April 2009 The research aims to examine large scale datasets to find out information about the health status, health needs and access to health care services among recent migrants to the UK in comparison with established migrants. Other surveys used: HSE MCS. * Sector Skills Assessment of the Energy and Utility Sector – Mr Rob Murphy. April 2009 Energy and Utility Skills is the Government-funded Sector Skills Council for the electricity, gas, waste management and water industries. As an SSC it is required, under the terms of its license, to produce an annual Sector Skills Assessment which will include the current make-up of the sector's workforce in terms of overall numbers, gender, sex, ethnicity, etc. Other surveys used: APS. * Academic research into voluntary sector HRM and managing an ageing workforce – Dr Emma Parry (Cranfield University – School of Management). April 2009 I am intending to analyse the data with a view to producing at least two academic papers. Firstly, I am interested in the nature of HRM in the voluntary sector compared to the public and private sectors and its relation to performance. Secondly, I am interested in the relationship between the age of the workforce and HRM practices. * Employment in agriculture – Mr Rhys Davies (Cardiff University – Wales Institute for Social and Economic Research, Data and Methods). April 2009 The data is required to analyse employment within agricultural occupations, with comparisons being made between Wales and the rest of the UK. Particular interest is in terms of the number of people entering/leaving the agriculture sector and the occupations that they held before and after such transitions. Other surveys used: APS. * LFS Longitudinal – Miss Selina Owusu. April 2009 In September 2008 the first students began to study Diplomas. Diploma programmes are distinctive in several ways, perhaps the most important being that they are delivered by groups of institutions working collaboratively. This means that in each consortium, partner centres will need to work out how best to share delivery of the Diploma components between them and how to allocate the funding provided. * Inquiry into the Future for Lifelong Learning: Participation stocktake – Mrs Fiona Aldridge. April 2009 The data on job related education and training will be used to inform a stocktake paper on participation in learning. * Temporary agency work – Dr René Boheim. April 2009 To complement earlier research on the use of temporaray agency work in Britain. Trade unions have an ambiguous relationship with the use of temporary agency work. A firm's employment of agency workers may be perceived as a replacement of directly employed workers or as way to curb union power, which trade unions would oppose. Alternatively, trade unions may encourage the (temporary) employment of agency workers in a firm, if they manage to bargain higher wages for their members. * Housing market in Scotland – Dr Angelica Gonzalez (University of Edinburgh – Business School). April 2009 I am conducting research on the housing market in Scotland. I need information related to the proportion of population owning outright, with loan or mortgages, renting from council, etc. I will try to incorporate consumer behaviour into an asset pricing model that may hep us understand what drives house prices up and down (when these are not explained by fundamentals). * Research – Miss Una Borte. April 2009 Collecting data for LMI for Cogents footprint industries and their future skill needs by examining the demographics of Cogent occupational roles. How does that evidence fair by national and global measures? Cogent industries are Chemicals, Oil and Gas and Pharmaceuticals, nuclear and polimer. * Knowledge Economy programme – Dr Sotiria Theodoropoulou. April 2009 We are interested in finding out whether the Knowledge Economy has led to changes in organisational characteristics. We will combine the date with the results of our own survey on what do people in the Knowledge Economy do at work. * Sheffield IB – Ms Deborah Platts-Fowler (Sheffield Hallam University – Centre for Regional Economic & Social Research). April 2009 To explore skills and qualifications, and basic socio-demographics of incapacity benefit claimants and lone parents on Income Support. The analysis of the LFS, along with administrative data and Sheffield Hallam's own survey data on IB claimants, whill help SCC target provision and support for IB claimants and LP back to work. * Upskilling-LLAKES project – Mr Geoff Mason (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Economic research). March 2009 We would like to use the LFS to provide some context for our upskilling project. We are especially interested in the training and qualifications variables. * Labour comparison – Mr Byung Gwan Lee. March 2009 I have an interest in employment by occupation in the banking and finance industry. Also I will compare the data between advanced economies. I hope that it will give us interesting information that occupation is a key point of industrial development. * Labour comparison – Mr Byung Gwan Lee. March 2009 I have an interest in employment by occupation in the banking and finance industry. Also I will compare the data between advanced economies. I hope that it will give us interesting information that occupation is a key point of industrial development. * Trends in part-time employment – Sara Connolly (University of East Anglia – Economics). March 2009 This project explores trends in part-time employment amongst men and women in the UK, specifically examining the roles of education, parenthood and household income. Typically women in their 30s and 40s have worked part-time and the very low numbers of men in part-time employment are either students or approaching retirement. The project will explore whether changing economic circumstances have resulted in more 'prime-age' men engaging in part-time employment and whether the employment conditions in part-time employment are deteriorating. * New family structures – Professor Stephen McKay (University of Birmingham – Social Policy). March 2009 An analysis of large-scale data to look at changes in family structures, and to compare with findings from the past. Key topics are lone parents, including lone fathers, and the effects of birth-spacing on employment (and potentially other outcomes). Other surveys used: APS SCS BHPS FACS FRS BCS BSA HBAI MCS . * Training, Skills and Labour Market Progression – Dr Sin Yi Cheung (University of Birmingham – Sociology). March 2009 This project aims to investigate the connections between skills/training and retention and job advancement in employment. More specifically, it aims to establish the causal impact that training has on employment retention and advancement, with a particular interest on low-skilled jobs and low-income groups. Both QLFS 93-08 and the longitudinal QLFS will be used. * Labour Force in 1980s and 1990s Recession – Mr Rupert Waters. March 2009 To allow comparison of claimant count unemployment in Buckinghamshire with that of Great Britain. The research aims to look at the effect of previous recessions on the Buckinghamshire labour market. * Women's work-family reconciliation and occupational segregation in the United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Sweden and Hungary – Dr Daniel Guinea-Martin. March 2009 The aim of this project is to research the growing female participation in the labour market. The objectives are two: The first one will be to study occupational sex segregation. Segregation is an obstacle to job mobility, and it restricts the employment available to women to a small group of occupations. Secondly, we will study the female patterns of participation in the labour market. The study compares the United Kingdom, the epitome of the liberal model of welfare state, with Spain and Italy, two examples of the Mediterranean welfare state. We would like to use Labour Force Survey data because it is highly harmonised across countries. Also, with cross sectional LFS data we could construct tables of occupations by sex and employment status in order to measure levels of segregation at particular points in time. In addition to this, with the longitudinal version of the LFS data we will explore transitions in and out of the labour market, and across different types of occupations. * Sector Trend Tracking – Miss Lauren Sadler. March 2009 As a Sector Skills Council we are funded to provide indepth sector analysis of the sector and the industries we represent. The LFS is an integral source of LMI for our organisation and helps develop strategy for the skills and training needed in the UK economy. * Regional Skills Profile of GB Workforce – Dr Martin Frost (Birkbeck College – Geography). February 2009 Analysis of age profiles of workforce qualifications and training to assess the nature of labour supply at the regional scale within Great Britain in relation to the development of local economic development initiatives. * Drivers of International Migration to the UK and to the Regions – Rebecca Riley (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – NA). February 2009 The objectives of this study are to identify: what drives migration from different countries; the patterns of where migrants settle; and for how long migrants settle. * Mental Health and Employment – Mr Dominic Page (Cardiff University – Disability Studies). February 2009 The literature has identified a number of gaps within mental health research; overall, highlighting that mental health and inequality in the labour market has been severely underdeveloped to the detriment of understanding the experience of those suffering from mental distress. Importantly, the complex relationship between employment status and mental health is still in its infancy, particularly when compared to the advances made within the disability studies movement. The assertion that those experiencing mental health problems are economically excluded needs empirical and analytical assessment. Other surveys used: . * Examining skill needs in recessions – Mr Paul Bivand. February 2009 Part of our work to examine the effects of the recession starting 2008 on unemployed people and the workless. Identifying whether or not the low-skilled are worse affected by this recession than the 1992 recession. * Social construction of phenotypical variation – Professor Michael Banton (University of Bristol – Sociology). February 2009 To update information estracted from the LFS in 1995 on Ethnic Group of children by Mother's ethnic group and country of origin, GB, and Ethnic Group of Husband by ethnic group of wife 1995. Other surveys used: LSYPE. * Worcestershire County Economic Assessment – Mr Chris Baker. February 2009 The usage will provide valuable data for the economic assessment, which is an analysis of current trends and developments in Worcestershire's economy and contains information to provide an overview of recent national policy in order to establish a framework for, and give meaning to, development in the county. Other surveys used: APS BCS Omnibus. * Social Distribution of Lifestyle Risk Factors among Pregnant Women in the Health Survey for England: 2001-2006. – Mrs Andrew McCulloch (University of Hull – Faculty of Health and Social Care). February 2009 Research has shown that health outcomes are influenced by socioeconomic position with poorer health outcomes among those individuals in lower socioeconomic groups. Differences in health outcomes have been found across the lifecourse and for a range of measures of socioeconomic position. Explanations have centred on either differences in the material resources available to different groups or differences in behavioural factors such as drinking, smoking, patterns of nutrition and exercise. In this project we use pooled data from the Health survey of England for the years 2001 - 2006 to examine the social distribution of lifestyle risk factors for adverse birth outcomes among women who are currently pregnant. We extend the previous research on smoking behaviour to other lifestyle risk factors, examine the extent to which risk factors cluster within individual women and how this is influenced by socioeconomic position. Other surveys used: HSE GHS NFS EFS. * Religious affiliation and social values – Dr Richard Gale (University of Birmingham – Sociology). February 2009 This is preliminary research in the relationship between religious affiliation/practice and social values. Other surveys used: BSA GHS BCS BHPS. * The wage returns to vocational qualification in different subjects – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). February 2009 This research will make use of questions recently added to the Labour Force Survey concerning the subject area of the highest qualification achieved. This will allow us to see whether the wage returns to intermediate level vocational qualifications differ by subject area, and in turn to infer changes in demand for qualifications in particular areas. * Training at Work of older adults – Mr Andrew Jenkins (University of Institute of Education – DOQSS). January 2009 Analysis of a range of datasets to provide insights into the extent to which older workers are able to access training at work. The aim of the research is to contribute to understanding of how older adults can be encouraged to remain in the workforce. * International Centre for Lifecourse studies in society and health – Dr Noriko Cable (University College London – Epidemiology and Public Health). January 2009 The International Centre for lifecourse studies in society and health is to conduct original research in four general areas of current scientific and policy interest: (1)Family relationships and child well-being, (2)Education, health and social participation. (2) Health and labour force participation. (4) Ageing and retirement. Other surveys used: HSE NCDS BCS70 MCS ELSA BHPS UKHLS. * CNRS (public research) France – Mrs Annick Kieffer. January 2009 This research relates to the possibilities of improving the Isced classification. In particular it tries to test the possibilities of differentiating the formation techniques and profession according to their type in several European countries (France, Great Britain and Germany) * TSRC Third Sector – Professor Stephen McKay (University of Birmingham – Social Policy). January 2009 Analysis of the composition of the workforce. A particular interest in the balance of activity in the non-profit sector. Trends in third sector employment. Who works in the third sector, and the consequences for labour market outcomes (wages, training, hours). Other surveys used: BHPS BCS70 BSA. * Update analysis of disability effects on employment – Dr Victoria Wass (Cardiff University – Business School). January 2009 I previously used LFS 2000-2004 spring quarters to estimate effects of disability on employment over a life time using the retrospective employment variable and a Markov model. My purpose is to update findings of this study using more recent LFS sweeps. * The Health of the Irish in the UK – Mr Mark McGovern (University College Dublin – Economics). December 2008 Data will be used to evaluate the health of Irish migrants to the UK, and tie their current circumstances back to their early life conditions. Other surveys used: BHPS SHES GHS. * Horticultural Labour Forecast – Mr James Edwards. December 2008 To quantify future gross labour requirements in the horticultural industry for the short medium and long term. The report will be circulated to DEFRA, ONS and the NFU and will be used in order to assist in quantifying the impact of labour market changes. The primary data source for the supply side is the LFS and secondary information about labour availability through the BIA. The models will then be validated against other information available from DEFRA. * Happiness and health – Professor David Blanchflower (University of Stirling – Economics). December 2008 This continues work I have been doing across countries on health and wellbeing. This includes work on happiness, obesity and depression. Other surveys used: HSE WHS FRS. * research – John Kitching (Kingston University – Small Business Research Centre). December 2008 I am a university-based academic trying to find data on the self-employed without employees, from the earliest available data to the present day, in order to write a paper for a scholarly journal. * Transforming experiences – Mr Charlie Owen (University of Institute of Education – Thomas Coram Research Unit). December 2008 This research programme addresses how adults from different family backgrounds negotiate their identities as they re-evaluate their earlier experiences. It will consider three sets of family experiences, where children: (i) from the Caribbean come to Britain to rejoin their parents in the process of serial migration; (ii) have grown up in families of mixed ethnicity and (iii) have been 'language brokers', sometimes taking responsibility for their parents as translators. * Labour market dynamics. – Dr Gindo Tampubolon (University of Manchester – Sociology). December 2008 It seems useful to examine the dynamics of labour market participation among ethnic minorities in contemporary Britain. The purpose is particularly to find whether the dynamics of the ethnic minorities are different from those of the ethnic majority. This will be done using a mixture hidden Markov model of first and second order with measurement error. Other surveys used: APS. * Employment and Earnings in the Finance Sector from an Equalities Perspective – Ms Hilary Metcalf (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Employment Policy). December 2008 A descriptive study of the gender differences in employment and earnings within the finance sector. Where feasible the study will also examine gender differences between other equality groups (age, ethnicity, religion, disability and sexual orientation). * DAMES project research investigations – Dr Paul Lambert (University of Stirling – Applied Social Science). December 2008 DAMES (Data Management through e-Social Science, www.dames.org.uk) is a research project concerned with handling and manipulating social science data, such as variable operationalisations. The project includes numerous evaluations of data manipulation issues for secondary social surveys. Other surveys used: GHS BHPS HSE. * Globalisation and Labour Markets: An Analysis of Job Stability, Job Security and Human Capital Accumulation for the U.K. – Miss Bina Prajapati (University of Nottingham – School of Economics). November 2008 This Thesis explored the inter-relationships between job stability, job security and human captial accumulation in the UK. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Returns to education – Professor Jeremy Smith (University of Warwick – Department of Economics). November 2008 Looking at analysis of the returns to education over time. With a particular focus on the returns to an undergraduate degree. * Older workers in the South West – Ms Hilary Stevens (University of Exeter – Marchmont Observatory). November 2008 Researching the labour market circumstances and experiences of older people. Other surveys used: APS. * Ethnic group-related research: projections of population, health & care – Dr Paul Norman (University of Leeds – School of Geography). November 2008 This work is establishing baseline evidence to assess fertility differences between ethnic groups (using child : woman ratios) and differences in health between ethnic groups, especially in relation to informal and institutional care. Other surveys used: GHS. * Updating labour input for EU KLEMS – Dr Catherine Robinson (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Economics). November 2008 EU KLEMS is a european wide productivity accounts database available at http://www.euklems.net. Data available at a detailed industry breakdown are based mostly on national accounts sources, however, in the constructon of a detailed labour quality index, shares of workers by industry are required. The LFS is also the best source of hours data available. These data, once constructed are made publicly available to the wider academic and policy making community. * Gender pay inequality in the finance sector – Dr Robert Simmons (Lancaster University – economics). November 2008 Research into gender wage discrimination in the British financial sector. Pooled LFS data are to be used to estimate wage equations by gender using quantile regression. Oaxaca decompositions are used to distinguish returns to characteristics and size of characteristics by gender. * Stratification of British higher education – Ms Jane Roberts (University of Oxford – Social Studies). October 2008 Few studies have taken account of the differentiated and stratified nature of the contemporary British higher education. Most of the studies have focused on the access to higher education, giving mainly account of the unequal rates of participation among different social groups (by social class, ethnic minorities, gender, etc.). My doctoral research is an attempt to understand the different mechanisms that explain the stratification beyond access to higher education. Other surveys used: BCS70 LSYPE BHPS MCS NCDS. * Goodness of fit - A welfare based approach – Dr Sanghamitra Bandyopadhyay (University of London School of Economics – Economics). October 2008 We will use individual level wages distribution as an empirical distribution against which we will test our statistical measure of goodness of fit. Other surveys used: HBAI. * Econometric and other analysis – Mr Giovanni Razzu (University of London School of Economics – Social Policy). October 2008 Mostly econometric analysis to decompose poverty reduction into growth and inequality components following traditional approaches, e.g. world bank and ravalion. Need to look at different datasets to understand what equality information they contain, in terms of strands, e.g. gender, disability, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age etc and various dimensions, such as health, education, income, social life etc. Other surveys used: FRS SEH GHS NTS BSA FACS APS BCS HBAI. * Migration from UK – Dr Johanne Trew (University of Ulster – History). October 2008 Need background UK overseas migration data for monograph on Migration from Northern Ireland project. Other surveys used: NILFS. * Designing Sociological Research – Miss Amye Murray (University of Sussex – Sociology). October 2008 I will be using this data to assist me with my sociology assessment questions, which focus on designing sociological research. I want to look at indirect harm and positive consequences associated with cannabis use, 2001-2003. Other surveys used: . * Electoral support for extreme right-wing parties – Dr David Jesuit. October 2008 This paper addresses two major limitations of cross-national research on electoral support for extreme right parties (ERPs) in Western Europe: its almost exclusive focus on national-level data and its failure to examine the role of the social welfare state and social capital. * Development of Model – Mr Paul Sharpe (The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) – Department of Work and Pensions). October 2008 The data wiil be used by the Child Support Agency in a predictive model to forecast the amount of cases in the Statutory maintenance service and other maintenance arrangements, in particular the movement between different forms of Child Maintenance Collection. Other surveys used: FACS FRS. * Strategic Assessment – Mr Seth Hart. October 2008 Data is required to review the performance of London Borough of Newham CDRP Strategic Priorities for 2008/09. Other surveys used: BCS APS. * GB Occupational Cancer Burden study – Mrs Sally Hutchings (Imperial College London – Epidemiology and Public Health). October 2008 We are updating the Doll and Peto estimates of burden of cancer due to occupation in Great Britain, and need to use LFS data to estimate numbers exposed to occupational carcinogens. * Research – Mr Myles Mackie. September 2008 To find out more concerning the socio-economic conditions in Coventry especially labour market conditions. * Beyond Current Horizons – Mr Bernard Casey (University of Warwick – Institute for Employment Research). September 2008 Part of a study looking at educational, work and family needs in the longer term, whereby my interst is primarily with the implications of workforce ageing and future needs. * Access to labour market single parents – Dr Gavan Conlon. September 2008 Access to labour market single parents in the UK and other countries compared for analysis for research. * Labour force supply – Dr Antoine Bozio (Institute for Fiscal Studies – Economics). September 2008 The research project is to look at modelling labour force supply over the life-cyle (by age and over time) to better understand the intensive margin (hours worked) and the extensive margins (participation rates) at both ends of working life. Other surveys used: SCS. * Ethnic minorities and employment – Dr Nabil Khattab (University of Bristol – Sociology). September 2008 I would like to look at Muslim women in the labour market exploring how language, time of migration, place of qualification and religion may affect their labour market participation. * Gender; sector of work and regional aspects of labour market outcomes – Professor Gerald Makepeace (Cardiff University – Cardiff Business School). September 2008 This research will examine differences in labour market outcomes focusing on the effects of region and working in the public sector, separately conducted by gender. Other surveys used: NCDS APS. * Migrant and established Muslim and non-Muslim women in local areas in the UK – Dr Hiranthi Jayaweera (University of Oxford – Centre on Migration, Policy and Society). August 2008 To analyse large scale national data on demographic and socio-economic circumstances of Muslim and non-Muslim recent migrant and established female populations to contextualise findings from a study of the experiences of recent migrants and established groups in local areas in the UK with significant Muslim populations. Other surveys used: MCS. * Analysis of changing employment structure – Mr Peter Millar (University of Warwick – Institute for Employment Research). August 2008 The IER uses the LFS in its work on monitoring and understanding changes in employment structure within the UK economy. The data are used to measure existing trends, and by the use of econometric analysis, develop behavioural models which provide insight into possible future developments. * Demographic Uncertainty – Dr Justin van de Ven (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Analysis). July 2008 Analysis of the influence of female labour market opportunities on fertility. Other surveys used: GHS EFS FRS FES. * TUC project – Dave Statham. July 2008 Part of a research project for the TUC on racism in employment. The work focuses on developments in the private sector in BME employment. * Migration and Public Services – Mrs Maria Latorre (Institute for Public Policy Research – Migration, Equalities and Citizenship). July 2008 This projects aim to assess the impact of imigration in public services in the UK. Other surveys used: GHS. * Rationality of migration – Miss Katarzyna Budnik. July 2008 To evaluate the rationality of migration from the new EU member countries to the former EU countries. To do so, I base my inquiry on the LFS data on Poland and the UK. The former is an example of a sending country, the latter of a receiving. The concept is to predict wages of Polse who stayed at home had they migrated and run the same analysis the other way - predicting wages of Polish immigrants in the UK had they stayed at home. Hence, it would allow me to judge whether the choice to stay or to leave was individually efficient. * Childrens Wellbeing and Lone Parent Employment – Dr Susan Harkness (University of Bath – Social Policy). July 2008 Looking at the effect of lone parent employment and maternal mental health on a range of child mental health outcomes in 1999 and 2004. Other surveys used: GHS BSA BHPS. * Analysis of changing employment structure – Mr Peter Millar (University of Warwick – Institute for Employment Research). June 2008 The IER uses the LFS in its work on monitoring and understanding changes in employment structure within the UK economy. The data are used to measure existing trends, and by the use of econometric analysis, develop behavioural models which provide insight into possible future developments. * Quality of Life – Dr Geoff Stewart (University of Southampton – ECONOMICS). June 2008 We wish to use the LFS data to update earlier research on the quality of life in England and Wales which was published in the Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics (2004). * Science graduates – Dr Arnaud Chevalier (University of London School of Economics – CEE). June 2008 Assessing the labour market positions of science graduates over time using the QLFS and comparing it to non-science graduates. * Quality of Life – Dr Geoff Stewart (University of Southampton – ECONOMICS). June 2008 We wish to use the LFS data to update earlier research on the quality of life in England and Wales. * Spillovers of education and training – Dr Renuka Metcalfe (University of Swansea – WELMERC, Economics). June 2008 We are investigating the spillover effects of education and training on pay and performance of firms in all UK sectors. * Ethnic Employment Disadvantage – Mr Ken Clark (University of Manchester – School of Economic Studies). June 2008 A project investigating the dynamics and diversity of ethnic minority labour force participation in the UK. I am particularly interested in the reasons for inactivity amongst women from different ethnic groups to address the issue of choice versus constraint in observed employment gaps. * Homeworking statistics – Mr Neil Meads. June 2008 We wish to compare data on how the level of homeworking has evolved over time. * Economics of Health – Dr Vanessa Beck (University of Leicester – CLMS). May 2008 The data will be used for a project that aims to examine the relationship between mental and physical health and employability, labour market participation and economic performance with specific attention given to the direction of causal relationships. Other surveys used: HSE . * Understanding London's labour market and population – Ms Lorna Spence (Greater London Authority – Data Management and Analysis Group). May 2008 This is an ongoing project in the areas of demographic, labour market and social exclusion analysis. Data are regularly required to inform the development, implementation and monitoring of numerous GLA strategies. The key areas this project covers includes London's demography, the level and nature of labour market participation in London, profiling groups most at risk of income poverty, profiling groups at risk of labour market exclusion, examining factors associated with exclusion, equalities and the labour market, immigration and the labour market and demographic and labour market trends. Other surveys used: FRS APS EFS HSE BCS GHS HBAI. * Black Africans in Britain: Integration or Segregation – Dr Lavinia Mitton (Kent,University of – SSPSSR). May 2008 The LFS will be used to produce statistics on ability in English and inter-ethnic unions of Black Africans. The data will be used to access the diversity of Black Africans in Britain e.g. by ethnicity, country of origin, country of birth, year of arrival to UK, religion, nationality. Other surveys used: HSE MCS BHPS FRS EFS. * Skills assessment for land-based sector – Mr David Swales. May 2008 Analysis of employment and qualifications within the land-based sector for inclusion within a skills assessment for the sector. Other surveys used: APS. * Assessing the impact of NMW on sectoral productivity – Dr Catherine Robinson (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Economics). May 2008 The purpose in the project is to examine the productivity impact of recent upratings in the national minimum wage. LFS data to be used (in addition to ASHE data) to extract hours worked, wages, and educational attainment measures by industrial classification to combine with 3 digit ABI data on output, employment and capital. * Redistribution and Public Opinion – Dr Thomas Cusack. May 2008 Continuing my project on changes in the labour market, inequality, and public preference for redistribution. Other surveys used: GHS BSA FES. * Personal Accounts – Miss Bhaveshree Hirani (The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) – Personal Accounts Delivery Authority). May 2008 The dataset will be used to assist in the modelling of participation rates into personal accounts. The dataset will help produce estimates of scheme volumes, support other strands of work and adhoc analysis to support briefing etc. The dataset will also help identify the characteristics of individuals who are/aren't currently participating into a pension scheme; including those who are contributing into the pension scheme; detailed job level information to identify multiple jobs, and information on how often individuals move between jobs. Other surveys used: Omnibus GHS FRS BHPS ELSA. * East Midlands Incapacity Benefit Claimants – Ms Deborah Platts-Fowler (Sheffield Hallam University – Centre for Regional Economic & Social Research). May 2008 Academic research into skills and qualifications amongst incapacity benefit claimants. Other surveys used: APS. * Energy Usage Analysis in Northern Ireland – Dr Mark Bailey (University of Ulster – Economics & Politics). April 2008 The analysis will compare the usage of different types of fuel sources in Northern Ireland using Continuous Household Survey data from a number of years. Other surveys used: NICHS. * Growth of employment in Scotland – Professor Richard Harris (University of Glasgow – Economics). April 2008 Wish to compare labour force survey data for Scotland to consider the growth of jobs and the major sectors in which growth has occurred. * Parental qualifications and job outcomes – Professor Andy Dickerson (University of Sheffield – Economics). April 2008 Preliminary investigation of the links between family composition, qualifications, and job types, including projections based on Leitch-type scenarios for future skills and qualifications distributions. Other surveys used: FRS. * Ageing, retirement and employment – Dr Fiona Carmichael (University of Birmingham – Business). April 2008 The research is about the transitions of older people from employment into retirement and activities in retirement. Other surveys used: ELSA EFS BHPS. * Economics of migration – Mr Howard Reed (Institute for Public Policy Research – Research). April 2008 This research project looks at various aspects of the economic impacts of migration in the UK, including the impact of immigration on wages and employment, demographic impacts in the medium to long term, and the impact of rural communities. Other surveys used: APS. * The low pay/no pay cycle: employers' role – Ms Hilary Metcalf (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Employment Policy). April 2008 The LFS anlaysis is to provide background information on the incidence of low paid, insecure work for a qualitative study of employers' role in the creation of insecure, low wage work. * Disability and labour market outcomes – Dr Paul Latreille (University of Swansea – Economics). April 2008 To consider from an economics perspective the relationship between health/disability and labour market outcomes in Wales and to examine differences according to the measurement of health/disability. Other surveys used: WHS. * Well paid jobs, low-paid jobs or no jobs? The changing patterns of employment in Britain, Denmark, Germany and Switzerland – Dr Daniel Oesch. March 2008 To analyze the patterns of job expansion in Britain, Denmark, Germany and Switzerland since 1980. Based on individual-level data, we want to find out whether the employment structure has undergone a process of upgrading, downgrading or polarization. We examine and then compare the patterns of job expansion over a first (1980-1993) and second period (1993-2006). For our empirical analysis, we select large-scale individual-level surveys for Britain and Germany. For Denmark, we rely on register data and for Switzerland, we use data from the Federal Population Census and the Swiss Labour Force Survey. * Contextual models of economic voting in new democracies – Ms Jane Roberts (University of Oxford – Social Studies). March 2008 We are estimating multi-level economic voting models in new democracies. The project will involve collecting voter preference surveys from new democracies in Europe, Asia, America and Africa. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Investigating incapacity benefit numbers – Dr Michael Anyadike-Danes. March 2008 To investigate the connections between disabilty, the labour market and IB claimant status across the regions of the UK. * Labour market segregation – Ms Laine Ruus. March 2008 Developing a tool to help measure the level of occupational sex segregation in the labour market which is more accurate than using observed data in conventional segregation indexes. Therefore, I am looking for relatively recent microlevel labour data that contains variables such as education level, establishment size, job tenure, etc. I intend to do some comparative work on this approach by using recent data from Canada, the UK, and the US. * Precarious employment – Dr John MacInnes (University of Edinburgh – Sociology). March 2008 Ways of defining and measuring precarious employment and interntional comparisons in its extent. Other surveys used: GHS BSA Omnibus. * Knowledge workers in the knowledge economy – Dr Rebecca Fauth. March 2008 The Knowledge Economy Programme focuses on the definition, extent and characteristics of the so-called 'knowlege economy' in the UK and beyond. One of the key components of the knowledge economy is the changing nature of work over the past 20 years. One of the main strands of the research is to examine the prevalance, job characteristics and outcomes of 'knowledge workers' relative to 'non-knowlege workers'. There are different ways of classifying workers into knowledge workers and non-knowlege workers, notably the use of SOC codes and qualification levels. We hope that this analysis will help us better define and understand knowledge workers and will provide useful information as we continue to develop our survey on knowlege work in the UK. * Religion and self-employment – Professor David Mcevoy (Liverpool John Moores University – School of Social Science). March 2008 Extension of work on ethnicity and self-employment both at a national level and by region. Other surveys used: APS. * Low-wage employment in Europe – Mr Geoff Mason (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Economic research). February 2008 Seeking information on work intensification in European countries analysed by country and sector. * Sociological research – Professor Yaojun Li (University of Manchester – Institute for Social Change). February 2008 Research on social mobility and social stratification, social and political capital, labour market postition especially concerning the minority ethnic groups in Britain, and comparative research between the UK and other countries such as the US, China. Other surveys used: LSYPE BHPS Household SAR APS GHS NCDS Omnibus. * Progression and outcomes of BTEC students – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). February 2008 This project is examining the success rate of BTEC students in aquiring such qualifications, and the progression rate of such students to higher levels of study, using data from the YCS. The LFS data will then be used to estimate the wage returns to BTEC qualifications. * Working out of Poverty – Mr Howard Reed (Institute for Public Policy Research – Research). February 2008 Despite the claim that "work is the best route out of poverty", getting a job doesn't necessarily mean escaping poverty. This project will develop proposals to end the injustice of in-work poverty, through promoting greater fairness and opportunity to progress in the labour market, and to promote high levels of employment that do not depend on the injustice of working poverty. We will investigate people's ability to earn enough through work to lift them and their families out of poverty, as well as to realise other aspirations such as acquiring new skills or better balancing their work and family lives. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Econometric Study of the Employment and Hours of Work Effects of the National Minimum Wage – Rebecca Riley (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – NA). February 2008 This study examines the effects on employment and hours worked of the 2003-2006 upratings to the National Minimum Wage. * Religion and urban restructuring – Dr Richard Gale (University of Birmingham – Sociology). February 2008 This project extends previous research on religious discrimination by looking at how religious groups and organisations response to urban restructuring and economic liberalisation. Other surveys used: Vital Statistics BSA GHS. * Mental Health and Employment – Mr Dominic Page (University of West of England – BBS). January 2008 This study focuses on a key aspect of social participation, namely the employment status of the disabled community, and represents a contextual and exploratory exercise developing an historical and documentary analysis of the impact of legislation on enabling economic participation. It aims to address the following key aims: to historically investigate the income, employment and economic participation of the disabled community in the United Kingdom; to document the impact of legislative changes on the economic participation of disabled people; to critically evaluate the content of legislative change in the United Kingdom. Other surveys used: GHS BHPS. * Cost of mental health in England – Mr Sujith Dhanasiri (University of King's College London – Institute of Psychiatry). January 2008 Looking at future costs of mental health in the UK. * A8/A2 migration – Jon Fox (University of Bristol – Sociology). January 2008 I'm interested in looking at data on the recent migration of east Europeans to the UK. This is for a project proposal I'm putting together that will examine Hungarian (A8) and Romanian (A2) migration to the UK. The Labour Force Survey will be helpful in getting a general idea of how similar/different the Hungarian and Romanian migrants are to other A8/A2 migrants. This will provide me with some degree of generalisability for an otherwise qualitative research strategy. * Wage Inequaility in the UK and Germany – Dr Johannes Giesecke. January 2008 This project aims at investigating the social structure of wage inequality in the UK and in Germany. Other surveys used: GHS BHPS. * Populist Parties in Western Europe: A Subnational Analysis – Dr David Jesuit. January 2008 Examining the determinants of electoral support for populist political parties in Western Europe in the 1990s. Significantly, we are conducting our analyses at the sub-national level (i.e. British regions). * Wage detemination by area – Professor david blanchflower (University of Stirling – Economics). January 2008 I want to access wage data to continue my work on wage determination in the UK. This builds on work on wage curves I have done over the years as well as work on private and public sector wage determination Other surveys used: APS HSE FRS. * Spatial Patterns of Development and the British Housing Market – T Leunig (University of London School of Economics – EH). January 2008 We wish to use this dataset to show that people will low qualification levels are more likely to be working in high GVA areas than in low GVA areas. Thus, for example, we would like to compare the non-employment rates of people without GCSE or equivalent qualifications in (say) Windsor and in (say) Blackburn. * Mrs Thatcher's Criminological Legacy – Dr Stephen Farrall (University of Sheffield – School of Law). January 2008 The objective of this scoping project is to allow the applicants to assess the extent to which it would be possible to explore the social, economic and cultural impact of neo-conservative public policy on UK society, especially as these features relate to criminal justice policy. Since the 70s and 80s, the UK has invested in a number of on-going surveys. In addition to this, there are other, non-governmental surveys which exist which provide a basis for the assessment of the direction of changes in social attitudes and experiences over time. There are also a series of one-off surveys too. Taken collectively, what can these surveys tell us about the enduring impact on the UK's criminal justice system of the neo-conservative policies of the 1980s? A key objective of the scoping project is to think through ways of discerning the impact that politics have on the deep trends that drive social change. Other surveys used: BSA GHS SEH FRS BCS SCS FES NIFES NCDS. * Has migration affected the employment prospects of young, unskilled, British-born workers? – Mrs Maria Latorre (Institute for Public Policy Research – Migration, Equalities and Citizenship). January 2008 Report in the impact of migration over the employment prospects of young, unskilled, British-born workers. * Immigration in the UK – Dr Piotr Paradowski. January 2008 Research on electoral support for extreme right parties (ERPs) in Western Europe, including the UK. One of the tests that is performed is if immigration has a direct effect on support for ERPs. * Cohort Social Change, Social Stratification and Social Generations – Professor Louis Chauvel. January 2008 This project focuses on an international comparision of the dynamics of social change explained by birth cohort. I analyze the shape of social stratification by age-period and cohort, in terms of educational assets, social position (occupation, wage, income) and consumption. I connect the diversities of welfare regimes and the responses of birth cohorts to social changes. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Agricultural trends – Dr Allan Butler (University of Exeter – Centre for Rural Research). January 2008 An analysis of agricultural trends over time. This will include trends regarding agricultural income, labour use and land use. * No qualifications – Judith Watson (University of Brighton – School of Environment and Technology). January 2008 Exploring all that is available on people holding no qualifications, in particular age groups, gender and ethnicity. * Sustainable Distribution – Mr Daniel Johnson (University of Leeds – Institute for Transport Studies). January 2008 We are investigating the concentration of industrial activity in different parts of Britain in order to estimate the freight transport requirements. * Social Impact of Road Pricing Schemes – Dr Kim Perren (Loughborough University – Centre for Research in Social Policy). December 2007 Conducting a survey and writing a report for Shropshire County Council on the potential social impact of road pricing schemes. Other surveys used: GHS BSA Omnibus. * Within nation movements of migrant workers – Mr David Beaney (University of Northumbria at Newcastle – SoBE). December 2007 To ascertain the movements of EU and non EU migrant workers within nation, characteristics enabling explaining such movements and attachments or exclusions from industrial sectors. * Education and social mobility – Professor Lindsay Paterson (University of Edinburgh – Education). November 2007 Part of a continuing programme of work on educational inequalities and social mobility. Other surveys used: NCDS BCS70. * Ethnic Minorities in the labour market – Dr Sin Yi Cheung (University of Birmingham – Sociology). November 2007 To examine the patterns of disadvantage of ethnic minorities in the labour market in Britain and to investigate the trends over time, with a particular focus on the private sector. Other surveys used: BCS NCDS. * Profile of Learners – Miss Marisa Yates (University of Institute of Education – NRDC). November 2007 To examine how SfL has impacted the enrolment and attainment of qualifications in the UK. * Dynamics of employer size distribution – Professor Fabien Postelo-Vinay (University of Bristol – Economics). November 2007 The data will be use within a research project about the timing of labour market expansions in OECD countries. I seek to establish some stylized facts about the evolution of the employer size distribution over the business cycle. * Population projections by ethnic group – Dr Paul Norman (University of Leeds – School of Geography). November 2007 Researching "WHAT HAPPENS WHEN INTERNATIONAL MIGRANTS SETTLE? ETHNIC GROUP POPULATION TRENDS AND PROJECTIONS FOR UK LOCAL AREAS". Various data sources will be used to indicate demographic behaviour by ethnic group. Other surveys used: GHS. * Influences of identity, community and social networks on ethnic minority representation at work – Ms Jane Holgate (London Metropolitan University – Working Lives Reserach Institute). November 2007 Project into the under-researched relationships between differentially racialised workers (defined in case for support) and community groups, and mainstream collective and representative organisations (i.e. trade unions) from the perspective of workers from these communities and in the context of how they access support for employment-related issues. * Standard and non-standard work – Dr Rachel Cohen (University of Warwick – Sociology). October 2007 Research project exploring the labour process effects of non-standard and standard work relations, with a special focus on hairstylists, accountants and car mechanics. * LFS 2005 – Professor Richard Harris (University of Glasgow – Economics). October 2007 Analysis of regional labour market conditions using the Labour Force Survey for various years in order to consider impact differences within UK. * The Voluntary Sector Labour Market – Prof David Bell (University of Stirling – Economics). October 2007 This study will use the LFS to analyse the voluntary sector labour market to identify key differences of this sector from the private and public sectors. Other surveys used: FRS. * Gender and Employment – Dr Brendan Burchell (University of Cambridge – SPS). September 2007 Triangulating the European Working Condition Survey to check unexpected findings, particularly regarding gender differences in hours of work, employment contract and domestic division of labour. * SW Regional Skills Strategy Development and Monitoring – Mr Ben Neild (University of Exeter – School of Education & Lifelong Learning). September 2007 The University of Exeter is working to provide an evidence base for the South West Skills Partnership to use in identifying regional priorities. We are also supporting them in monitoring the effectiveness of their activities. Other surveys used: APS. * Secondary analysis – Ms Victoria Peacey. September 2007 I am interested in comparing the characteristics of respondents to the Labour Force Survey and ONS Omnibus Survey and may also undertake some secondary analysis of the data to look at face-to-face contact. Other surveys used: Omnibus FRS. * Household portfolio research data – Dr Ihsuan Li. September 2007 I am exploring datasets that can help me test an hypothesis on household holding of debts and assets. Among those debts are bank cards. I am also interested in examining household patterns in buying and selling stocks (stock portfolio) across time given different socio demographic characteristics. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Survival of workplaces – Professor david Blanchflower (University of Stirling – Economics). September 2007 I intend to develop further the work I have done over the years using WERS/Wirs data in the UK on the factors that impact the ability of workplaces to survive and grow. * Pathways to work: Current practices and future needs for the labour market integration of young people – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). August 2007 This research is for the UK contribution to a European research project considering the problems of youth unemployment across Europe. This particular contribution aims to provide data at an aggregated level on the flexibility of the youth labour market in the UK, for example looking at the proportion of young workers on different types of fixed and flexible workers, the proportion whose pay is influenced by collective bargaining etc. * Population Health in the North West – Mr Tom Hennell (Department of Health – NW Public Health Team). August 2007 The survey data will be analysed to examine regional, national, ethnicity and income trends in key health and social care risk factors - smoking, education, health status, alcohol consumption, disability and usage of health services - in particular, so as to set the context for local lifestyle surveys. Other surveys used: HSE GHS APS. * Non-standard workers – Dr Melanie Simms (University of Warwick – Warwick Business School). August 2007 The intention is to examine trends in the usage of non-standard employment contracts as part of a project looking at the challenges facing unions representing/mobilising non-standard workers. * Comparison with DLHE survey – Ms Sarah Kitchen (National Centre for Social Research – Quantitative Research). August 2007 NatCen has undertaken analysis of the Destinations of Leavers from Higher Education study. We wish to compare findings of this study with Labour Force Survey data to see how the employment circumstances of leavers compares with the labour force as a whole. * Education in Cornwall and IoS – Dr Caroline Hattam (University of Exeter – Marchmont SLIM). August 2007 As part of an evaluation of Objective One ESF, we are investigating longitudinal datasets that may help identify changes in the socio-economic situation of Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly. Other surveys used: APS BCS BSA FRS GHS SEH BHPS LSYPE. * International Comparison of Part-Time Employment – Miss Eefje Steenvoorden. August 2007 At The Netherlands institute for Social Research - SCP we are writing on a report on part-time employment in the Netherlands. In this report we include also a chapter which will focus on the international comparison of the occurance of preferences and policy towards part-time employment. * Attitudes toward redistribution – Dr Thomas Cusack. July 2007 In continuing my research on popular attitudes toward redistribution in modern welfare states (see Cusack, et al, "Risks at Work...", Oxford Review of Economic Poliy, 2006, Vol 22, No. 3), I would like to make use of the British Social Attitudes Survey datasets. The primary focus of this project is on the role of risks in the labour market and how such risks come to shape policy and partisan preferences. The Social Attitudes Surveys, conducted almost continuously over the last two decades or so, could prove quite useful in this project. Other surveys used: BSA EFS FRS GHS. * National long-term conditions policy – Mr Roger Halliday (Department of Health). July 2007 Provide an evidence base for national policy to improve health, care and well-being of people with long-term conditions. Other surveys used: GHS HSE FRS Omnibus. * How to Construct Europa? Migrants in Germany and the UK – Wido Geis. July 2007 A research project which will compare the immigration to Germany and the UK in detail, especially regarding to education, family structures and job oppurtunities. The aim of the project is to see in how far Germany and the UK attract immigrants with different social or educational backgrounds and to explain why this is the case. This study shall be based on the German microcensus and the LFS. Other surveys used: GHS. * Flexible Hours and Adverse Selection in British Firms – Dr Katie Winder. July 2007 The ability of workers to exercise some control over the timing of their work, called flexible hours or flextime, is an important benefit to parents and other caregivers who have difficulty balancing their employment and home responsibilities. Although the incidence of flexible working hours has been increasing in the U.S. and in Europe over the last decade, it is still unclear why it is not more widely available, and why it is less often available to those workers most likely to use it, such as parents and younger workers. This paper focuses on the explanation that because worker productivity is not perfectly observed, firms may resist offering flextime since they believe it will attract low-productivity employees. * Temporary employment in Britain: Character and consequences – Dr Chris Forde (University of Leeds – Leeds university Business School). June 2007 Will provide a statistical portrait of temporary work in Britain, looking at characteristics of the temporary workforce and pay levels, using QLFS and longitudinal datasets. * GeNet project 5: WHIPP – Mr Jerome De Henau (Open University, The – Economics). June 2007 We analyse the determinants and the distribution of intra-household financial inequalities in the UK, with a focus on tax-benefits. Other surveys used: FRS GHS TimeUse Omnibus BHPS FACS ELSA. * Training in the Education Sector – Mr Andrew Jenkins (University of Institute of Education – BGLSS). June 2007 The research will examine the extent and type of training received by employees in the education sector using cross-section data from WERS 2004 and will make comparisons with the volume and types of training of workers in other sectors of the economy. * NICE Social QALY – Dr Richard Edlin (University of Sheffield – ScHARR). June 2007 Used as part of a study on "the relative benefits of health gains to difference beneficiaries". The data will be used to determine the population mix of gender, education and age variables. This will be used when inferring the preferences of a representative sample of the population. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Unemployment and monetary policy – Dr Stephanie Seguino. June 2007 This research examines the impact of monetary policy on unemployment by race and gender. * Household behaviour in the UK labour market – Dr Murat Genc (University of Aberdeen – HERU). May 2007 The aim of the project is to estimate labour supply functions of the members of the household, and earning functions. The focus of the analysis will be the differences in both behaviour and wages earned based on personal characteristics of the individuals such as ethnicity and gender. * Learning the Mathematics of Labour Market Information – Dr Phillip Kent (University of Institute of Education – London Knowledge Lab). May 2007 Exploring the development of using adapted datasets with careers guidance practitioners to develop learning resources for Labour Market Information. Only prototypes are being developed at this stage, to be tested under supervised conditions with very small groups of target users (10 users maximum in total). Case identifiers in the data will be deleted. * Research – Miss Chloe Renner (University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne – SERU). May 2007 Researching of Gender and Ethnic Minorities in Science, Engineering and Technology at both a regional and national level in the UK. Other surveys used: APS . * Masters Dissertation – Mr Simon Toms (University of Gloucestershire – Department of Social Sciences). May 2007 The dissertation is looking to investigate a variety of psychological variables that are present within the agency worker's workforce, such as job satisfaction, organisational commitment, and worker-relations. The information from the labour force survey will be used to provide the basic statistics on the number of agency workers currently working in the UK. * Profile of Iranians in the UK – Mr Walter Giesbrecht. April 2007 A student has requested data to develop a demographic and socio-economic profile of persons in the UK whose national identity (whether by birth or ancestry) is Iranian. She has written a similar report for Pakistanis and wishes to do a comparison with Iranians. Other surveys used: APS. * Monitoring and understanding London's labour market – Dr Margarethe Theseira (Greater London Authority – GLA Economics). April 2007 This project will analyse levels of labour market participation in London; identify those groups most at risk of exclusion and examine factors associated with exclusion. The project will also explore the general dynamics and characteristics of the London Labour market. Other surveys used: APS TimeUse GHS FRS EFS FES BHPS. * Intermarriage and economic performance – Dr Francesca Fabbri. April 2007 The focus of this research is on the role of intra- and intermarriage on the economic performance of immigrants. Although intermarriage may accelerate and make more efficient the social integration and the human capital accumulation of immigrants, preferences to marry within the same ethnicity are also likely to be a determinant in the individual's marriage choice. Individuals derive utility from joint consumption of ethnic goods, such as ethnic food, language, or even religion. Furthermore, some individuals may prefer not to marry at all. We propose a cultural model which explains marriage choice among immigrants and its effect on their labour market outcomes. In the empirical part, we analyse data from Britain (British Labour Force Survey) and from Germany (German Socio-Economic Panel), to understand to what extent results can be sensitive to the composition of the immigrant population and to countries' labour market and immigration policies. * Employment history - labour force – Dr Dilani Jayawarna (Manchester Metropolitan University, The – Centre for Enterprise). April 2007 For research publications on self-employment and entreprenuer lifecourse. This research is a pilot study for an in depth study entitled enterprise and household. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Exercises for the course of econometrics – Dr Olga Demidova. April 2007 I need this data for creating new exercises for the course of econometrics and to refresh my lectures. * An Evaluation of the Want2work Pilot – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). April 2007 I am evaluating the Want2Work scheme in Wales, which is intended to help people on Invalidity Benefit back into work. The Welsh Assembly have provided data on participants in the Want2Work scheme, with which I can evaluate their likelihood of returning to work. However, this likelihood should be compared to that of a control group of non-participants in Want2Work. To form this control group, I would like to use data from the Labour Survey Five-Quarter Longitudinal Datasets, from the same period that Want2Work was in operation (2005-6). * FOS and Labour Market Flexibilization – Mr Steffen Schindler. April 2007 Comparative project on the relation between fields of study in higher education and the placement into flexible forms of employment in Europe. The project is a contribution to the research team on "Educational Fields of Study and European Labour Markets" within the EqualSoc-Network. * Coursework – Mr Vicky Luchman (University of Warwick – Economics). April 2007 Need for coursework. * Policy Analysis – Mr Alastair Gordon. March 2007 Internal policy analysis with an local authority - looking specifically at fear of crime data. Other surveys used: BCS. * Unit Costs work – Mr Andrew Fenyo (Kent,University of – Personal Social Services Research Unit). March 2007 The Unit Costs programme is funded by the Department of Health. Data is used in calculating the costs of a wide variety of health and social care provision. One facet of the work is the calculation of lifetime costs of training. * Research – Mrs Charlotte Kelly (University of Leeds – Institute for Transport). March 2007 Research for project - I am wanting to look at the data to see whether there is a link between two variables. Other surveys used: GHS TimeUse APS FES NTS. * Interracial Marriage – Alan Manning (University of London School of Economics – Economics). March 2007 To investigate the determinants of the rates of interracial marriage and how this varies across areas and over time. There is more concern now than in the past about the integration of ethnic minorities in the UK, about the factors that help or hinder community interactions. The aim of our project is to understand one aspect of community interactions, interracial marriage. One of the factors that is very likely to influence rates of inter-marriage is the ethnic composition of the local population, from which a partner is most likely to be drawn. Data from the Quarterly Labour Force Survey has much of the information we would like to use to explain rates of interr-racial marriage. The main way in which the data will be used to is to estimate models for the propensity of indviduals to be in an interracial relationship where the dependent variable is whether the individual is in an inter-racial relationship and the regressors included are demograhpics (e.g. age, education, ethnicity) and measures of the ethnic mix of the local area. * Escalating levels of consumer debt in the UK – Ms Stavroula Vina Theodorakopoulou (Kingston University – Faculty of Arts & Social Sciences- School of Economics). March 2007 The BHPS data will be used for academic research purposes. I intend to use the BHPS as the primary data source, in order to quantify my main research question. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Proskills Sector Skills Agreement – Mr Andy Challis. March 2007 To investigate and describe the current shape and size of the Proskills Sector Skills Council footprint with the intention of improving skills-related productivity. * Data analysis teaching – Dr Andrew Knops (University of Birmingham – Sociology). March 2007 Samples of qualitative interview transcripts and quantitative interview data will be used on the University of Birmingham's Department of Sociology's second year undergraduate research methods module analysis workshops. Students will be asked to analyse the material provided by these deposits, as part of the practical component of the second year research methods module, which focuses on analysis techniques. Other surveys used: . * Estimating stocks of A8 nationals in the UK – Mr Dhananjayan Sriskandarajah. March 2007 This is an investigation into the number of people born in the new EU member states according to the LFS, in order to estimate net migration flows of A8 nationals to the UK. * Moving Up Together – Mr Dhananjayan Sriskandarajah. March 2007 A project investigating the socio-economic performance and barriers to further integration of the Somali, Nigerian, Iranian and Bangladeshi communities in Brent, Manchester and Birmingham. Other surveys used: APS. * Lone Parents, Tax Credits and – Mr Mike Brewer (Institute for Fiscal Studies – Direct Tax and Welfare Sector). March 2007 The whole project is to compare a set of policies that would encourage lone parents to do jobs of less than 16 hours/wk ("mini-jobs"). The LFS will be used to provide background on what sort of people do mini-jobs now, and what sort of jobs are done. * Self-Reported Wellbeing in Scotland – Prof David Bell (University of Stirling – Economics). March 2007 This project looks at self-reported wellbeing in Scotland. It looks at the main determinants of variation in self-reported wellbeing and then considers how these have varied both through time and in relation to the Rest of the UK and the Rest of Europe. Other surveys used: SHES FRS. * Training Differences in the Public and Private Sector: Who Gets It and What's It Worth? – Dr Paul Latreille (University of Swansea – Economics). February 2007 This research will look at differences in both training incidences between the public and private sectors and in the gain employees receive from training in these two sectors of the economy. The econometric model proposed controls for inter-establishment (unobserved) heterogeneity and decomposes differences in training incidences and earnings into characteristic and structural effects within a multi-level framework. Inter-sector analysis quantifies the nature of any public sector advantage in training provision and in the rewards that employees receive from training; while intra-sector comparisons examine whether discrimination is lower in the public sector and the part, if any, played in this process by formally written equal opportunities and pay review policies. Research supported by an award from the Department of Trade and Industry WERS 2004 Grants Fund * Health service use by people with long term conditions – Mr Roger Halliday (Department of Health – Department of Health). February 2007 Policy analysis of the use made of different parts of the health service by people with different long term conditions. Other surveys used: GHS HSE ELSA BHPS. * Qualifications Demand in Scotland to 2011 – Mr John Houston (Glasgow Caledonian University – Business Economics). February 2007 To acertain the current patterns of sectoral and occupational relationships and their linkage to qualifications in the Scottish Economy. * Sociology – Miss Sarah McFarlane (University of Sussex – Social Sciences). February 2007 im a sociology student and im using the data in order to see if there are any correlations between the variables. * Workplace health and Safety – Mr Jonas Nystrom. February 2007 For analysis of injuries and illnesses in the workplace. Also to analyse the occupational, industrial and demographic composition of the workforce for briefing and for impact assessments within policy development. * Optimal labour income tax and transfer programs: theory and evidence for the UK – Mr Mike Brewer (Institute for Fiscal Studies – Direct Tax and Welfare Sector). February 2007 The project is to apply recent theoretical developments in the theory of optimal tax to the UK. This project is part of several which are being coordinated by the IFS as part of the Mirrlees report, a large-scale project to mark the 30th anniversary of the Meade Report, and due to publish in 2008. Other surveys used: FRS GHS. * Flexible working: UK-Greece comparison – Prof Stanley Siebert (University of Birmingham – Commerce). February 2007 The project explores flexible forms of employment (temporary work, agency work, subcontracting, family work) in Thessaly (Greece), using a WERS-style questionnaire. Data in Greece were collected in 2005-6, achieving a sample of over 200 workplaces. For full analysis of the results from the Greek survey, comparative results from the UK WERS would be illuminating. * Estimating the economic impact of healthy food – Dr Gavan Conlon. February 2007 We are undertaking a piece of work to estimate the economic benefits associated with the provision of healthy food in schools. The use of the Labour Force Surveys will provide an assessment of the earnings associated with qualification attainment and is supplementing an analysis of the National Pupil Database. * Family poverty – Mr Stephen Mckay (University of Bristol – Geographical Sciences). January 2007 Analysing the new FRS data from 2004/5 on deprivation indicators. This affects poverty figures, for all family types. Plan to also look at the role of child support in income packages, and what is available on asset measures. Other surveys used: FRS BCS. * Turnover in HEI – Professor Richard Harris (University of Glasgow – Economics). January 2007 I wish to compute turnover data for academics in HEIs comparing them to other relevant occupation groups. * Training work and the older workforce – Mrs Swati Nettleship. January 2007 An investigation of training and the older workforce, in the context of the DfES skills targets, the emergence of Train to Gain and the broader Government objective to extend working life. Other surveys used: ELSA. * Family decision-making – Miss Kathryn Grant. December 2006 We intend to use this data in a study of how families and households allocate their time and money. We go beyond standard labour force participation studies, to also look at income and consumption. This is part of on-going GLA work on "Women in London's Economy". Other surveys used: EFS APS. * Small Area Estimates of Income Deprivation – Dr Ben Anderson (University of Essex – Chimera). December 2006 The development of a spatial microsimulation approach to the estimation of income deprivation at small area levels. Other surveys used: FRS EFS. * Teaching only – Dr Jo Wathan (University of Manchester – CCSR). December 2006 Postgraduate teaching. Other surveys used: HSE BSA NTS. * Measuring equality – Dr Tania Burchardt (University of London School of Economics – CASE). December 2006 The new Commission on Equality and Human Rights will monitor equality in Britain by gender, ethnicity, disability, age, sexual orientation and religion/belief. This project is developing a framework for measurement for the CEHR. Other surveys used: BSA HSE BCS FRS BHPS FES HBAI. * LFS – Dr Abbi Kedir (University of Leicester – Economics). December 2006 Working on LFS to compare with own data which looks at the work based training. Looking at LFS will be helpful to fulfil this aim. * Demography, Politics and Old Age – Dr John Vincent (University of Exeter – Sociology). December 2006 To provide empirical support of a paper I am writing based on a continuing interest in politics and old age. Other surveys used: NICHS FES BSA HSE GHS EFS BHPS. * Explaining the regulatory tax of land use restrictions – Mr Gerard Dericks (University of London School of Economics – Geography). December 2006 For a research project of professors Chirstian Hilber and Paul Cheshire LSE explaining the regulatory tax of land use restrictions. * Academic research – Mr Emanuele Canegrati (University of London School of Economics – Economics). December 2006 I intend to use the data to evaluate the use of time with respect to different social classes and age, in particular with respect to some activities such as relaxing, taking care of relatives, social activities and so forth. The aim of the analysis is to assess if differences amongst the elder and the younger component of society exist. Other surveys used: TimeUse. * Estimating the ethnic employment rate – Mr Andrew Thomas (The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) – DWP). December 2006 Estimate the employment rate of ethnic minorities and the employment gap compared to whites. * Teaching socilogical research methods – Dr Jacqueline O'Reilly (University of Sussex – Sociology). November 2006 Teaching second year sociology students how to access real datasets as part of learning how to use SPSS. Other surveys used: BSA BCS BHPS . * New methodology for data imputation – Dr Pasi Koikkalainen. November 2006 Data is used as a real world case to evaluate new imputation methodology. This is part of Ph.D thesis also. * Estimating the impact of drug usage – Mr Andrew Thomas (The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) – DWP). November 2006 I intend to use this to estimate the impact of drug usage supporting DWP's research strategy. Other surveys used: BCS. * Polish and Lithuanian workers in UK – Dr Bridget Anderson (University of Oxford – ISCA). November 2006 To contextualise findings from a University of Oxford survey of Polish and Lithuanian workers in the UK. * Geographical Structure of Business Services in Britain – Dr Martin Frost (University of Birkbeck College – Geography). November 2006 An investigation into the distribution of business service activity in Britain, and of the nature, quality and knowledge intensity of the jobs created by it. * Temporary work – Dr David Biggs (University of Gloucestershire – Natural and Social Sciences). November 2006 I am a researcher of temporary workers and I use studies such as the labour force survey to keep an eye on labour market conditions and I have published some of my research findings on this in the past. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Impact of migrant workers – Mr Paul Steven Jones (University of Warwick – Economics). November 2006 Transtions of UK born workers out of employment in migrant dense sectors and industries. * Research project – Dr Rene Boheim. October 2006 This project explores the dynamics of flexible work arrangements and investigates whether or not flexible work may be a tool to integrate individuals into the labour market. Our main research questions are the following: Does flexible work enhance the chances of regular work in the medium-term? Do workers in flexible contracts suffer wage penalties after switching to regular employment? Other surveys used: BHPS ELSA. * Equalitec Recruitment of women into ITEC project – Dr Robert Busfield (University of Roehampton – Business & Social Sciences). October 2006 This project examines how women are recruited and retained in the ITEC sector. The main method involves interviewing HR managers in relevant companines and the project aims to disseminate good practice throughout the industry in order to increase the proportion of women emoployed in ITECT careers. The research will also involve secondary analysis of labour force statistics in order to illustrate the current position of women in the ITEC sector. Other surveys used: GHS BSA BCS Omnibus. * Economic analysis and general equilibrium modelling – Dr Keshab R Bhattarai (University of Hull – Economics, Business School). October 2006 Teaching for Economics 2nd and 3rd year and M.Sc. and PhD. students in the Business School of the University of Hull. Other surveys used: FES APS NTS GHS EFS BHPS. * Teaching – Mr Yi Fang (University of Edinburgh – Economics). October 2006 To create a econometric project for students in Edinburgh University. The project aims at reproducing the results of previous research and practising some econometric techniques. Other surveys used: BCS . * Data-matching for QOF study – Dr Robin Sinclair Smith (University of Sheffield – ICOSS). October 2006 I have been contacted by research staff to explore GP performance data (QOF) and how it could be matched to the Labour Force Survey using Geographical Information Science techniques. In order to define the work I need to look at a sample of the data to see if this task is possible. I am, therefore, downloading a recent dataset for exploration. * Construction Industry – Dr Kevin Reilly (University of Leeds – LUBS). October 2006 Look at gender distribution of individuals with trade occupations in the construction industry. Will be looking at the characteristics of individuals and their employers compared to other selected occupations. The goal is to see if systematic differences can be identified for females who are practicing a trade in the construction industry. * Analysis of employment in non-domestic buildings – Dr Alison Berry (University of Surrey – CES). September 2006 The data will be used to look for time-series in employment data by SIC and SOC codes. Other surveys used: EFS. * Teaching quantitative methods – Dr Paul Norman (University of Leeds – School of Geography). September 2006 Various datasets including the LFS, Vital Statistics and Health Surveys will be used as exemplars during the teaching of quantitative research methods to Masters and PhD students at the School of Geography, University of Leeds. Other surveys used: BCS HSE GHS SEH. * Cost Benefit Analysis of Apprenticeship – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). September 2006 Using Labour Force Survey data from 1996 to 2005, I will estimate the wage returns earned by individuals who have completed an apprenticeship, focussing on Modern Apprenticeships. These wage benefits will then be compared to the data on the costs of apprenticeships (to the government, the employer and the individual) already acquired by the DfES, to perform a full cost benefit analysis, and estimate the net present value of undertaking an apprenticeship. * Controls in Crime and Police Deployment Study – Mr Mirko Draca (University of London School of Economics – Centre for Economic Performance). August 2006 This data will be used to construct control variables for a study of crime trends and police deployment in the London area over the 2004-2005 period. * Sociological Analysis – Dr Yaojun Li (University of Birmingham – Sociology). August 2006 I am a lecturer teaching quantitative analysis and doing empirical analysis. I need data for both teaching and research purposes. Other surveys used: NICHS APS GHS TimeUse BSA. * Sector skills profiles – Mrs Sarah Munro. August 2006 Part of our remit is to provide an overview of the labour market for different industry sectors in Scotland. We estimate that we will produce around 25 different profiles based on the sectors covered by the sector skills councils as well as some other sectoral bodies (Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, Engineering Construction Training Board). The profiles are intended to provide an overview of the key labour market issues in different sectors on a comparable basis, for use by policy makers and key Scottish stakeholders, and will be freely available on the Futureskills Scotland website. Other surveys used: APS. * Heritage Counts – Mr Geoffrey Dawe. August 2006 Background analysis for research into impact of historic environment on national, regional and local economy and society. Other surveys used: TimeUse EFS APS BHPS. * Analysis of flexible working amongst older workers – Dr Wendy Loretto (University of Edinburgh – Management School). July 2006 Update analysis of flexible working amongst men and women aged 50-plus (previously undertaken for Spring 2004 LFS). Purpose: to write an academic article and book chapter. * Women employment – Ms Makiko Matsumura. July 2006 I will use this data for my PHD paper, "Women employment between Britain and Japan". I'd like to examine how Women after having children continue their work or not. I will look for the trend from 1980 to 2006. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Employment and disability – Mr Simon Robinson (University of Leeds – Library). July 2006 I wish to get LFS data about employment rates for people with disabilities. I particularly want to know about people with vision problems. This data will be included in a training session for staff about disability awareness. * Unemployment Trends – Mr Paul Langton (Knowsley PCT – Public Health). July 2006 Comparing unemployment rates from the 1970's and 1980's in Knowsley to see if it impacts on life expectancy 20 years later. The hypothesis is that worklessness is a large contributor to years of life lost in a population. * Child poverty in London – Professor Nicholas Buck (University of Essex – Institute for Social and Economic Research). July 2006 An analysis of trends in child povery in London, including facts concerning London's demographic structure and labour market conditions which may lead the future trend in poverty to diverge from the national trend. Other surveys used: FRS. * Equality and Diversity Research – Mr James Rounce. June 2006 As part of our Councils Equality Standard and Equality and Diversity protocols we would like to combine LFS waves over time, 8 periods, to generate estimates particulalry for ethnic groups to our local authority area. The periods will be reviewed as the LFS is updated thus creating a rolling average figure. * Migration analysis – Mr Pascal Marianna. June 2006 These datasets are intended to be used in an OECD study on integration of migrant population. Labour market performances of national versus migrant workers will carried out for a number of socio-demographic characteristics of the population. * Police Effectiveness-econometric analysis – Mr Joseph Hamed (Home Office – Science and Research - Economics and Resource Analysis). June 2006 Internal Home Office work investigating marginal impact of and additional police officer at Police force area level since 2000. Cross-Section Time series structure to control for simultaneity between police hiring and crime to attempt to esitmate marginal impact of crime, with suitable controls for other variables. Other surveys used: BCS APS. * The Economic Role of Independent Schools in Britain – Dr Yu Zhu (University of Kent – Economics). June 2006 This project will examine an issue that has major implications both for public policy and for understanding of social and economic mobility. It will investigate important aspects of the role that independent schools play in England, both within the education sector and by extension in the wider economy. Other surveys used: APS BCS70 NCDS BHPS. * Labour supply and labour market transitions – Mr Michal Myck. May 2006 We combine data from the FRS and the LFS (1998-2003) to analyse the effect of financial incentives on labour market transitions. Financial incentives are computed using the FRS, and the information is then transferred to the LFS in which labour market transitions are observed. Other surveys used: FRS. * Estimating occupational turnover rates – Mr Charles Thibault. May 2006 The data will be used to estimate the turnover rate by SOC. I will focus on three areas: 1) The person's stated occupation; 2) The person's stated industry of employment; 3) The response to the question "How long have you been at your current job" (variable code EMPLEN). The turnover rates are estimated using a simple "survival analysis" econometric method. These turnover rate estimates are fed into Corzen's (where I work...) proprietary Market Potential model, whereby we estimate the number of hires in a city or for a firm given it's occupational composition. We also input other factors. * Non-standard academics in the UK – Dr Donna Brown (University of Royal Holloway – Management). May 2006 I gathered information on academics in the UK, specifically those on non-standard employment contracts. I wish to contrast the sample with LFS information for workers in this sector, and other public sector occupations. * The Social Mobility of Black People: The Public/Private Sector Divide – Ms Jane Roberts (Oxford: Nuffield College – Social Studies). May 2006 The study is undertaken in the hopes of seeing whether black people enjoy better social mobility, measured by occupation, in the public or private sector and in which country they enjoy the most mobility. From the results I hope to draw conclusions as to the social, historical and other factors that have influenced the situation in each country, compare them and hopefully draw some policy recommendations. Other surveys used: GHS BSA BHPS. * Fertility estimates using the own-child method – Ms Jane Roberts (Oxford: Nuffield College – Social Studies). April 2006 The aim of this project is to continue a project developed at OXPOP (Oxford Centre for Population Research) to monitor fertility rates over time in UK since 1980. It involves updating the QLFS database (2003 and more) and analysing the recent figures. Other surveys used: Household SAR APS. * In between. An exploratory analysis of dependent self-employed workers in Italy and Great Britain – Professor Emilio Reyneri (Oxford: Nuffield College – Sociology). April 2006 According to labour law the distinction between dependent and independent labour is used to be grounded on the principle of the hetero-direction by employers. A worker should be considered an employee when the employer has a control on his tasks, whereas a worker should be considered self-employed, although working for an only firm, when the control by the employer concerns only the final results of his work. In many European countries labour law scholars debate whether it does exist a tertium genus between dependent and independent working position. From the labour market point of view, people working in those peculiar non standard jobs do not enjoy as many protections and welfare provisions as the employees, but they live as high risks to fall in unemployment as the fixed-term employees. An exploratory comparative analysis, based on labour force surveys (in particular the spring 2004 wave that includes additional questions suggested by Eurostat), is aimed at looking at the characteristics both of those jobs and of people involved in them. * Analysis of migrants performance in the UK – Dr Liliana Hiris (Robert Gordon University – Economics and Public Policy). April 2006 The use of this data will be towards an up to date study on the situation of migrants from Central and Eastern Europe in the UK. * Research on Migrant Integration – Dr Alessio Cangiano (University of Oxford – Centre on Migration Policy and Society (COMPAS)). April 2006 The project aims to explore the impact of migration, integration and labour market policies on the outcomes of migrants in the UK labour market. Performance indicators of foreign nationals and foreign-born are analysed discussing possible influence of regulatory frameworks. Other surveys used: APS GHS. * Scottish Survey Statistics – Dr Michael Rosie (University of Edinburgh – Sociology). March 2006 Survey statistics on Scottish society Other surveys used: NILTS BSA SHES GHS Omnibus SEH. * Violence and Society – Dr Simon Moore (Cardiff University – Oral Surgery, Medicine and Pathology). March 2006 To examine the causes and correlates of violence in UK society. Other surveys used: BCS HSE BHPS BCS70. * Varieties of capitalism – Mr Lauge Andrea Stoltze Rasmussen. March 2006 The Copenhagen Centre is currently performing a comparative study between the service sector in Denmark and in UK. We would therefore like to use data from Denmarks Statistics and UK Data Archive to perform the comoarative study. Other surveys used: BSA BHPS. * Labour Market Institutions, the Distribution of Wages and Investment in Human Capital – Ms Jane Roberts (Oxford: Nuffield College – Social Studies). March 2006 I intend to empirically test the impact of minimum wage upratings on the distribution of wages and use my results to evaluate the theoretical predictions about investment in training for low skilled workers. Other surveys used: BHPS. * The long tail of Low Skills – Ms Renuka Metcalfe (University of Surrey – Economics Department). March 2006 * Labour force analysis of apparel, footwear and textiles sector – Mr Peter Glover. March 2006 Labour force analysis of apparel, footwear and textiles sector. * Secondary analysis of 2004 child mental health survey data – Professor Panos Vostanis (University of Leicester – Health Sciences). March 2006 We are particularly interested in the analysis of data on service use by child mental health services, and its comparison with data from the previous child mental health survey, which we also analysed and disseminated. * HE participation in the YCS – Dr Anna Vignoles (University of Institute of Education – Bedford Group). March 2006 Builds on preliminary work sponsored by the DfES. * SME – Mr Michael See. March 2006 The Data will be used for the project report on structure and development of small and medium-sized enterprise (SME) which is one of the ongoing tasks of the Institute for Small Business Research. It informs about structures, tendencies, as well as opportunities and risks in the development of small and medium-sized enterprises. With the help of the Labour Force Survey (LFS), we will attempt to find the answers in the following areas: a) A central area of investigation is the exceptional growth of solo self-employed persons in recent years and how this growth is influenced by economic structure or sociodemographic modifications. The development and structure of Self-Employment will be examined in international arrangement. b) Further inquiry will be made as to how much influence the institutions have (factors that are influenced by institutions are e.g. qualification, career and labour market) on the decision between Employment or Self-Employment. c) Since the increase of Self-Employment is an international phenomenon, comparative investigations are also made between Germany and other countries. * Undervaluation of Women's Work – Dr Mark Smith (University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology – Manchester Business School). February 2006 This project explores the undervaluation of women's work in the UK. The work builds on previous EOC research and policy work on the main causes of the gender pay gap. The project has a number of aims: firstly, to review the literature and statistical evidence on the undervaluation of women's work; secondly, the project seeks explanations for historical, current and future trends in undervaluation, differences between public and private sectors and linkages between undervaluation and quality of service; thirdly, the project aims to develop criteria for identification of areas for future detailed research, reflecting variations in factors associated with undervaluation and degree of undervaluation; finally, we aim to identify environmental factors that might reduce undervaluation and the assessment of policy interventions and institutional change. The project aims to use survey data to identify occupations, sectors and job types where undervaluation takes different degrees and arises out of different contexts. We wish to use the most up to date LFS to explore changes in gender shares of occupations. * Social Research Methods – Mr JM Roberts (London South Bank University – SPS). February 2006 Teaching exercise for undergraduate students. Other surveys used: BSA NILFS GHS BCS. * Understanding the Transformation of the Prospects of Place – Dr Eldin Fahmy (University of Bristol – School for Policy Studies). February 2006 This project seeks to develop a longitudinally consistent approach to understanding the changing geography of poverty and affluence in Britain in the period 1968-2004. The research involves extensive quantitative analysis of large-scale surveys of poverty and wealth in Britain in order to derive synthetic models that can then be applied to census small area statistics for the purposes of geospatial analysis. These sources include a series of nationally representative poverty surveys conducted in 1968-9, 1981, 1990, and 1999, and Family Expenditure Survey data for the period 1968-2001. Other surveys used: FES EFS GHS FRS TimeUse APS BHPS BCS70 FACS ELSA . * Firm location and firm performance – Ms Jane Roberts (Oxford: Nuffield College – Social Studies). February 2006 The research will look at how different motivations for outward foreign direct investment affect the structure of production in the UK. It will also examine the extent to which firms are more productive when located in cities and the reasons behind this. I will use the Labour Force Survey data back to the 1970s to create industry-level measures, for example of skill intensity. * Innovation in WERS 2004 – Miss Katy Huxley (Cardiff University – Business School). February 2006 The data will be used to produce statistics for the 6 specialist groups designated to working on WERS. * The job search methods of ethnic groups from a comparative perspective – Ms Jane Roberts (Oxford: Nuffield College – Social Studies). January 2006 Looking at the job search methods of ethnic groups from a comparative perspective, using QLFS data from the U.K. and comparable data from the U.S. and Germany. * Migrant Workers H&S Research – Mr Marc Craw (London Metropolitan University – Working Lives Research Institute). January 2006 Research to focus on migrant workers health and safety in six sectors. Other surveys used: APS. * Higher education and the graduate labour market – Dr Sin Yi Cheung (Oxford Brookes University – Sociology). January 2006 To investigate the extent to which the type of education in addition to level of education influence labour market returns. The focus is on field of study, type of institutions and mode of study. * Work Choices – Dr Diane Perrons (University of London School of Economics – Gender Institute). December 2005 A project looking at the characteristics of individuals who make different work choices and an examination of the constraints to work that they face. * Health professionals, education and training – Dr Colin Tilley (University of Dundee – DHSRU). December 2005 Analysis of the relationship between health professionals and their education and training. Other surveys used: SSA BSA APS. * Quantitative methods teaching – Dr David Barron (Oxford: Jesus College – Said Business School). December 2005 Intended for use in teaching quantitative methods to master's degree students. Other surveys used: BHPS ELSA. * Research – Dr Mark Elliot (University of Manchester – CCSR). December 2005 Research on linkage. Other surveys used: HSE GHS. * Non-certified Learning and Skills: Variation Across Sectors and Countries and Links to Productivity – Dr Steven McIntosh (University of Sheffield – Economics). December 2005 The aim of this project is to collect information on the incidences of non-certified learning, to attempt to build up a picture of the stock of people with non-certified skills. The NALS dataset will be used to verify information provided by the less specific Labour Force Survey. The aim is then to link stocks of non-certified skills to productivity at the industry level and then to do similalrly for other countries using the European Labour Force Survey. * Languages LMI – Miss Tracy Docherty (University of Salford – School of Languages). December 2005 Regional Language Networks NE, NW & YH. RDA funded non-profit organisations. Data needed to assess foreign language skills in each region. Other surveys used: FRS APS BHPS. * Scotland's Labour Market – Mrs Sarah Munro. December 2005 A report giving an overview of the Scottish labour market and an analysis of the key opportunities, issues and trends. Intended to inform policy decisions as well as a general reference document for a wider audience. Other surveys used: APS. * Gender and the knowledge economy – Professor Sylvia Walby (Lancaster University – Sociology). December 2005 Analysis of the gender dimension of the knowledge economy. * Comparative indicators for panel studies – Professor Nicholas Buck (University of Essex – Institute for Social and Economic Research). November 2005 Cross-sectional indicators from large social surveys are used to provide comparators for data derived from ongoing longitudinal studies, such as the British Household Panel Survey. This usage support the work of the ESRC funded UK Longitudinal Studies Centre. Other surveys used: APS. * Decomposing differences in income distribution – Dr Philip Kostov (Queen's University Belfast – Agricultural and Food Economics). November 2005 The conditional income distribution (with regard to covariates) compared to a reference period is decomposed by constructing counterfactual distributions. The latter should indicate the sources in the changes in this distribution. * Worcestershire Economic Assessment – Mr Stephen Russell. November 2005 The Worcestershire Economic Assessment is an annual document which analyses current trends and developments in Worcestershire's economy and labour market. The document contains a wealth of information in order to establish a framework for, and give meaning to, development, in the county. Other surveys used: APS FRS SEH BCS Vital Statistics Household SAR. * Poverty and Debt – Mr Martin Weale (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – All). November 2005 A study of the interrelationship between poverty and debt using data from the British Household Panel Survey. Other surveys used: GHS EFS FRS BHPS. * Ethnic minorities and communities: widening the scope for representation at work – Ms Jane Holgate (London Metropolitan University – Working Lives Research Institute). November 2005 The overall aim of this project is to explore the scope for representation at work for black and minority ethnic (BME) groups. It will assess the extent to which some BME workers feel marginalised or excluded from trade unions and therefore are unable to access advice and support on work-related matters, or who perhaps choose to use community networks and/or other organisations as an alternative. * White Goods – Dr Surhan Cam (Cardiff University – School of Social Sciences). November 2005 This project aims to investigate the implications of new management strategies for companies and employment relations in the UK. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Use for academic book – Dr Christian W. Haerpfer (University of Aberdeen – Politics and International Relations). November 2005 The data will be used for an academic book on democracy and market economy in Russia and Ukraine. Other surveys used: . * Dignity in and at Work Project – Dr Sharon Bolton (Lancaster University – OWT). October 2005 Project looking into the concept of dignity at work. Initial research seeks to use existing data sets to explore how people feeel about the quality of their working experiences and their working conditions and environment. This information will then be used as a foundation for creating a conceptual framework that will enable a broad understanding of dignity in contemporary workplaces and form a foundation for further in depth qualitative research. Other surveys used: APS BSA BCS BHPS. * Nationality research – Mr Jacques Benham. October 2005 We are working for the French Foreign Office who asked us to estimate the number of French residents in UK and to study their evolution in the time. Some of them are identified by the French embassy in UK but many don't use the services offered by the consulate administration and are unknowns. We are searching a way to count French residents in UK and to characterize them if possible, including people who have French and British nationalities. We saw that the Quarterly Labour Force Survey contain the nationality variable. * Research on datasets for Northern Ireland – Ms Lee Williamson (University of Manchester – CCSR). October 2005 Working to create a guide to datasets for Northern Ireland, where access to all the large-scale government surveys will be necessary. Other surveys used: NILFS FES NIFES NILTS. * Differentiate response of immigrant groups to business cycle shocks – Dr Thorsten Vogel (University of University College London – Economics). October 2005 Evaluation of microdata to estimate differences in the response to business cycle shocks of various demographic groups. * Teaching SPSS – Miss Andre' Noor (University of School of Oriental and African Studies – Economics). October 2005 Teaching SPSS as part of an introductory research methods course. * Drivers of cohesion and perceptions of ethnic diversity – Ms Rebecca Hardy. October 2005 MORI is hoping to increase internal knowledge about ethnic minority populations. To this end we are hoping to compare the national 2001 and 2003 Home Office Citizenship Data with each other and compare the 2003 data with data we have gathered as part of the Local Areas Boost element of this study. Specifically we will be using binary logistic regression and other modelling techniques to look at the following questions: * How do the drivers of perceptions of diversity differ nationally as compared with local areas * How do the drivers of cohesion differ nationally as compared with local areas * In what way have the drivers of cohesion and perceptions of diversity changed over time * Labour market transitions – Dr Andy Dickerson (University of Warwick – Institute for Employment Research). October 2005 I will be examining the changing dynamics of the labour market in recent years, in particular, distinguishing the behaviour of different subgroups of the population. * An analysis of migration in Britain – Mr Stephen Drinkwater (University of Surrey – Economics). October 2005 To use large-scale survey datasets to conduct an analysis of migration patterns in Great Britain. The research will focus on the characteristics of migrants as well as changes in migration trends and the performance of migrants over time. Other surveys used: GHS. * Temporary working in the UK – Dr David Biggs (University of Gloucestershire – Psychology). October 2005 Own personal research. * Time and income poverty – Ms Tania Burchardt (University of London School of Economics – CASE). September 2005 To investigate the circumstances of those who can avoid income poverty only by incurring time poverty and vice versa. Other surveys used: TimeUse EFS FRS BHPS. * Study on education, crime and income – Mr Rimawan Pradiptyo (University of York – Centre for Criminal Justice Economics and Psychology). September 2005 We are in the process of conducting an exploratory study on educational attainment, crime and income. Other surveys used: BCS BCS70 NCDS. * Social Statistics and Data Analysis Online Course – Mr Philip Edwards (University of Manchester – Law). September 2005 Datasets are being used to update the online course in Social Statistics and Data Analysis offered by the University of Manchester School of Law (course ID LW2452). Other surveys used: HSE ELSA. * Gendered knowledge economy – Professor Sylvia Walby (University of Leeds – Sociology and Social Policy). September 2005 An analysis of the gendered nature of the knowledge economy. * Teaching material – Dr Robert Evans (Cardiff University – School of Social Sciences). September 2005 Teaching quantitative data analysis methods to students on a postgraduate research methods course. Other surveys used: HSE BCS. * Lectures on Scottish datasets – Professor David Bell (University of Stirling – Economics). September 2005 This usage is to allow me to describe Scottish datasets to audiences of other academics and postgraduates. The purpose is to broaden the use of these datasets within Scotland. I do not intend to share the data with any of those attending the lectures. Other surveys used: SCS SSA BSA FRS. * Muslims and community cohesion in the UK – Ms Jane Roberts (Oxford: Nuffield College – Social Studies). August 2005 The Muslims and community cohesion project is about identifying factors contributing to or undermining community cohesion in three urban areas in the UK in which significant numbers of Muslim migrants and long-term Muslim residents are living. * Diversity, integration and the economy – Ms Jane Roberts (Oxford: Nuffield College – Social Studies). August 2005 The diversity, integration and the economy project looks at the way economic performance of migrants in the UK and Germany is mediated by the impact of regulatory frameworks. * Evaluation of the Working Families' Tax Credit – Mr Mike Brewer (Institute for Fiscal Studies – Direct Tax and Welfare Sector). August 2005 To investigate the quantitative impact of the WFTC using the Survey of Low-Income Families dataset (now called FACS) and the FRS. As part of the project, SOLIF/FACS will be compared to the FRS and LFS. Other surveys used: FRS. * Migration – Mr David Beaney (University of Northumbria at Newcastle – Built Environment). August 2005 Examination of returning migration. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Chronic illness and poverty – Dr Lucinda Platt (University of Essex – Sociology). August 2005 Project exploring the relationship between long term limiting illness and poverty and/or labour market participation for a selection of minority ethnic groups. * Job mobility of dual earner couples – Dr Birgitta Rabe. August 2005 The project looks at job mobility of dual earner couples which involves internal migration. It examines how the spouses' earnings potentials, other socio-economic variables and intra-family bargaining influence family migration in UK. Other surveys used: BHPS. * Trends in permanent and non-permanent employment of nurses – Mr Trevor Murrells (University of King's College London – Nursing Research Unit). July 2005 To explore trends in movement of nurses between permanent and non-permanent employment. * Modelling labour market transitions – Mr Mike Brewer (Institute for Fiscal Studies – Direct Tax and Welfare Sector). July 2005 The aim of the project is: a) to design a model of transitions and flows between non-employment (non-participation, unemployment) and employment which shows how they are affected by various measurable characteristics of working age individuals and the labour market environment. Crucially, the model aims to show how entry into work and exit from work are related to the financial incentives that individuals face in making these transitions. b) to estimate the model using the most suitable recent UK data sources. c) to use the model to simulate the effect of a variety of labour market reforms on employment inflows and outflows and hence on overall labour market participation. * Research on Scottish Datasets – Ms Lee Williamson (University of Manchester – CCSR). July 2005 Working to create a guide to datasets for Scotland, where access to all the large-scale government surveys will be necessary. Other surveys used: SSA SCS SHES. * DMS – Mr Christopher Bojke. July 2005 Deployment of Maths and Science teachers (DMS) This research aims to assess the deployment patterns of teachers of mathematics and science in maintained secondary schools in England. The need for research in this area was highlighted in Professor Adrian Smith's Inquiry into Post-14 Mathematics Education, Making Mathematics Count (Smith, 2004). * Scottish demography: Migration between Scotland and SE England – Dr Donald Houston (University of Dundee – Geography). July 2005 This project is part of the ESRC's Scottish Demography research programme. * Disability needs analysis – Mrs Sara Panizza. June 2005 The aim of the study is to develop detailed information on the needs of disabled people in Newham. Other surveys used: HSE GHS. * Evaluation of the Skills for Life Programme – Ms Hilary Metcalf (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Employment Policy). June 2005 The study is evaluating literacy and numeracy courses for adults provided under the Skills for Life Programme. The study is examining the impact on economic, personal and familial outcomes (including employmnet, health and interaction with children), using a longitudinal, matched comparison group, survey design. * Changing employment relationships – Dr Michael White (University of Westminster – Employment Group). June 2005 National data (LFS, BHPS) will be used to provide contextual information for further analysis of the "Working in Britain 2000" survey. The latter survey was conducted within the ESRC's Future of Work research programme and has been deposited in the Data Archive by this user. The aim of the further analysis is to develop understanding of changing job requirements and changing work incentives. * PhD – Mrs Lul Admasachew (University of Birmingham – Appplied Social Studies). May 2005 Qualitative and quantitative analysis of wage gaps along age, race and gender borders. * South Asians in the Labour Market – David McEvoy (Liverpool John Moores University – School of Social Science). May 2005 Personal research for purposes of academic publication. In the first instance a paper is in preparation on South Asians in London for a French geography journal. Other surveys used: APS. * DTI Growth Accounting – Dr Catherine Robinson (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Economics). May 2005 Conducting a growth accounting exercise, including a more refined measure of labour quality. * Wales Input-Output Tables 2003 – Mr Calvin Jones (Cardiff University – Cardiff Business School). May 2005 Update of IO Tables for Wales to 2003 base-year. * Study of Apprenticeships and career trajectories – Mr Jovan Luzajic. May 2005 Project will consider the career trajectories of people who have previously trained as apprentices. It will search available datasets and research on this subject and initiate a call for evidence to map possible progression routes. * Improving recruitment and retention of staff within the bus industry through optimisation of shift patterns – Mr Daniel Johnson (University of Leeds – Institute for Transport Studies). April 2005 Looking at the factors behind the recruitment and retention of bus drivers in West Yorkshire. * the dynamics of commuting behaviour – Dr Joyce Dargay (University of Oxford – Transport Studies Unit). April 2005 This study will analyse the factors determing commuting patterns, and changes in commuting over time for various types of individuals. It will be based on a model that considers cummuting in the context of the joint decision regarding workplale and residential location. Other surveys used: SEH BHPS. * Employee participation – Professor David Marsden (University of London School of Economics – Industrial Relations). March 2005 HEFCE. Seeking funding for academic research on employee information and consultation in the UK * Changes in car ownership and transport expenditures – Dr Joyce Dargay (University of Oxford – Transport Studies Unit). March 2005 This study investigates changes in car ownership and transport expenditures for households over time and investigates the factors determining these changes. Other surveys used: FES. * Skills and Returners to Employment – Dr Wendy Olsen (University of Manchester – Cathie Marsh Centre for Census and Survey Research). February 2005 Study on women returners to work * Organising for social inclusion: minority ethnic communities and trade unions – Dr Jane Holgate (University of Queen Mary – Geography). February 2005 This project aims to explore the under-researched relationships between black and minority ethnic (BME) communities and trade unions. The link between such community groups and trade unions is an important area of research in the context of contemporary politics and is of central importance to our understanding of issues of inclusion and exclusion in the workplace. * Employment PSA targets – Ms Allison Roche. January 2005 To collect data for the Neighbourhood Renewal Strategy on employment rates and the theme of worklessness for the Employment Task Group for the Local Strategic Partnership. * Northern Ireland Labour Force Analysis – Mr Darren McKinstry. January 2005 The work will be an analysis of the NI Labour Force by key equality grounds and demographic characteristics. Other surveys used: NILFS. * Occupational segregation project – Dr Jane Elliott (University of Institute of Education – Centre for Longitudinal Studies). December 2004 Comparison of occupational segregation in Britian and the US with attention to recent changes and the impact of part-time work on patterns of occupational segregation by sex. * Developing a European Socio-economic classification – Professor Peter Elias (University of Warwick – Institute for Employment Research). December 2004 Labour Force Survey data will be used for a comparative study of the properties of a European Socio-economic classification, contrasting a classification based upon the LFS with a similar classification based upon the French Labour Force Survey. * Temporary worker research – Dr David Biggs (University of Gloucestershire – School of Health and Social Sciences). December 2004 LFS datasets give a useful insight into the labour market and I am specifically interested in this from a temporary worker perspective. * Evaluating the Impact of 'Valuing People' – Professor Eric Emerson (Lancaster University – Institute for Health Research). December 2004 To develop a comprehensive set of performance indicators that can be used to evaluate the impact of current health and social care policies for people with learning disabilities. Other surveys used: Omnibus HSE TimeUse GHS FRS BCS BHPS NCDS FACS MCS BCS70. * Applied econometrics – Ms Jane Roberts (Oxford: Nuffield College – Social Studies). November 2004 Writing a textbook about cross-sectional and panel microeconomic data and timeseries macroeconomic data. * Employment transitions among those 50+ – Dr Richard Dorsett (University of Westminster – Policy Studies Institute). November 2004 Explore the movements between different economic states for individuals aged 50+. * Labour Market Flexibility and Unemployment Dynamics in the UK – Dr Vassilis Monastiriotis (University of London School of Economics – European Institute). November 2004 Empirical research on the economic effects of labour market flexibility is significantly hampered by measurement problems and data availability. The present study overcomes such limitations using a unique set of labour market flexibility indicators that have been developed at the regional level for the UK over the period 1979-1998 (Monastiriotis, 2002) and empirically examines the relationship between flexibility and economic performance in the UK. Specifically, the study examines the direct effects of various elements of flexibility (related to the functioning of production and the adjustability of labour costs and labour supply) on unemployment. Further, it investigates three related issues: the impact of labour market flexibility on unemployment persistence; its effects on the impact of macroeconomic shocks on unemployment; and its effects on cross-regional unemployment adjustments. The evidence gathered provides a direct evaluation of the role that labour market flexibility has played for economic performance in the UK and its regions and constitutes a significant contribution to the international literature on the economic effects of labour market flexibility. Among the unique contributions of the study is the use of spatial econometrics, which allows the estimation of spatial dynamics (spillovers) in the relationships under investigation. * Older Women and flexible working – Dr Wendy Loretto (University of Edinburgh – School of Management). November 2004 Investigation of older women (50+) in the labour market, focusing on flexible working. Being undertaken for Equal Opportunities Commission. * Coursework Assignment – Dr James Brown (University of Southampton – Social Statistics). October 2004 Asking students to perform regression analysis on weekly pay as a coursework assignment. * Industrial Performance, ICT INvestments and Workforce Skills – Mr John Forth (National Institute of Economic and Social Research – Employment Studies Group). May 2003 Analysis of the links between information and communications technology (ICT) investments, ICT skills and industrial performance in the UK economy. Other surveys used: GHS BCS70. * Ethnic differences in patterns of employment and unemployment. – Professor Angela Dale (University of Manchester – CCSR). April 2003 The extent of cohort changes in employment for ethnic women. Differences in employment participation by qualifications and presence of children. Relationship between qualifications, unemployment and underemployment for different ethnic groups. Other surveys used: HSE APS BHPS EFS FACS. * Mortality History in London – Dr Peter Razzell. 0000 The data will be used as a part of a pilot project on the history of mortality in London. The research is a part of a larger programme examining changes in infant and child mortality in London during the period 1540-1850, using reconstitution of individual families. Other surveys used: FES. ESDS is now part of the UK Data Service. These ESDS web pages will remain during the transition, but may not be up to date. UK Data Service logo Here are some links to get started with the new service: * Discover is the new Data Catalogue * major studies are now called key data * learn about access to UK Census data * login to your account * deposit data * read our FAQS for current users * get in touch with questions or comments Latest News More news Upcoming Events Recent Data Releases Recent Publications ESDS Home Page > Government > Aps > Usage _ Page last updated 28 July 2009 © Copyright 2003 - 2014 Universities of Essex and Manchester. All rights reserved. Contact | Copyright and Disclaimer | Accessibility | Send us comments on this page Link to University of Essex Link to University of Manchester Link to JISC Link to ESRC Statistics web 2.0 Skip to main content Home Search form Search ________________________ * Index * News * Speeches * Constituencies * MPs * Lords * MEPs * MSPs * Cabinet * Elections * No 10 Briefings * Prime Ministers * PMQT * Timeline * Links Nick Clegg - 2013 Speech on Immigration Below is the text of the speech made by the Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, on immigration on 22nd March 2013. Today I want to talk about immigration. Not asylum; that’s an important distinction to make – immigration. The debate is opening up, and that’s a good thing. We’ve now heard from the Labour party about some of their mistakes in office. And the Prime Minister and I are setting out how the Coalition is correcting those mistakes. Me today, David Cameron on Monday. The political mainstream has a duty to wrestle this issue away from populists and extremists. A duty to shift what can be a highly polarised debate – particularly in difficult economic times – onto practical and sensible ground. And the Liberal Democrats take that responsibility very seriously. This morning I will explain why, in order to remain an open and tolerant Britain, we need an immigration system that is zero-tolerant towards abuse. Tolerant Britain, zero-tolerant of abuse. That’s the vision the Coalition is working towards. Before I do, I want to make one thing clear: the Liberal Democrats will never seek to outflank our opponents because we think that’s what people want to hear. Yvette Cooper said, recently, that we must avoid an “arms race of rhetoric” on immigration. I agree. That kind of low populism patronizes the British people and it is an insult to the many migrants who have contributed to our country. British society has been shaped by migrant communities in ways more profound than any cliché about chicken tikka masala, or Notting Hill Carnival, or Polish builders can ever express. I’m the son of a Dutch mother – she, herself, raised in Indonesia; a half-Russian father; husband to a Spanish wife. Like millions of Brits, if you trace our blood lines back through the generations, you end up travelling around the globe. And I’m a liberal. I’m immensely proud of this nation’s wonderful diversity and openness. Those are great British traditions too. Of course, if you believed every headline, you’d think that when immigrants aren’t stealing British jobs. They’re all living the high life in 12-bedroom Kensington mansions, courtesy of the state. But that’s a complete caricature of the truth. The majority of people who come here work hard and make a contribution. Many have served – and still serve – in our armed forces. And if every member of an immigrant community suddenly downed tools, countless businesses and services would suffer. The NHS would fall over. And in a globalised economy, where talent is as mobile as capital, no nation can succeed by pulling up the drawbridge. British firms depend on outside skills and expertise in order to compete. British universities too. The reason this country has a world-beating research base is because we are a magnet for the brightest and the best. That’s why, when the Coalition put limits on the number of migrants coming here from outside Europe, it was important to Vince Cable and me that students – genuine students – were excluded from that. It’s why, more recently, the Coalition has rejected proposals to impose a visa regime on visitors from Brazil. Where a minority are abusing the system, we need to deal with that – whatever nationality they are. But a new visa regime would deter Brazilian tourists, discourage Brazilian investors and Brazil would simply do the same to us, hampering the access British companies have to one of the world’s fastest growing markets. So, yes we are bringing immigration under control, and I will explain how. But I want UK firms to be in no doubt. The Coalition’s priority continues to be growth and building a stronger economy. I’m clear that well-managed immigration is a key part of that. The problem is that the system has not been well-managed. It has been grossly mismanaged. I welcome Labour’s recent admission that they got it wrong. But the fact that this mea culpa is immediately followed by mud-slinging, by an attempt to blame the Coalition for the problems that remain, suggests to me Labour still don’t understand just how wrong they got it. The previous government left us an immigration system in disarray. I cannot stress enough just how chaotic it was. The first thing they did, after coming into office, was stop checking if people were leaving the country. They got rid of exit checks. They weren’t counting people in and they weren’t counting people out either. Seven different immigration Bills; six different Home Secretaries and yet, in the course of a decade, just 114 prosecutions for employing illegal immigrants. And Labour were completely caught off guard by the impact of their decision to lift transitional controls on new EU member states when other EU countries did not. By the time they finally woke up to the mess they’d created, to the real strain immigration was placing on some communities, it was already too late. Is it any wonder that there has been a crisis of public confidence in our immigration system? People’s anxieties are not, generally-speaking, driven by prejudice or racism. We are, by nature, a tolerant people. But, for too long, British people’s legitimate concerns have been downplayed. For too long their worries were met with words but not action. There’s a common allegation that, among the political elite there’s been a conspiracy of silence on immigration. But over the years there’s been lots of talk, lots of posturing, lots of promises. Plenty’s been said. The problem is: not enough’s been done. Where there is resentment towards the immigration system, we must now confront it. For a diverse society like ours to function successfully, for different groups to integrate and co-exist, British citizens must believe that the rules by which migrants come and settle here are reasonable, just, and properly enforced. The immigration system must command public confidence. Since we came into government, net migration has fallen by a third. We’ve limited immigration from outside Europe. And within the EU, we have kept the transitional limits on Romania and Bulgaria, until the point where every member state has to remove them. But it’s not just about the overall numbers. People need three basic assurances: One: that we are getting a grip on who’s coming in and who’s going out. Two: that we can deal with people staying here illegally. Three: that the system as a whole benefits the UK and doesn’t put too much pressure on our state – particularly in these straitened times. Give British citizens those assurances, and you will see this nation’s most welcoming side. The Coalition is creating a system people can be confident in. A system that contributes to both a stronger economy and a fairer society – we need to deliver both. Tolerant Britain, zero-tolerant of abuse. Assurance number one: that we’re getting on top of who’s here. The Coalition is building a much clearer picture of who’s coming in and going out. We’re building up Britain’s entry checks, increasing the information we get in advance of people travelling. And we are reintroducing exit checks. Exit checks tell us whether the people who should have left actually have. Britain used to have them, but they were dismantled by previous governments. The process began under the Major government and was carried on by the Blair administration and the Liberal Democrats have been campaigning to bring them back since 2004. To us it always seemed obvious that exit checks are an essential feature of an efficient and competent immigration system. And so we ensured that this Liberal Democrat manifesto commitment was written into the Coalition agreement. Bit by bit we are filling in the gaping holes Labour left. Assurance number two: that we can prevent people from staying here illegally. Before I come onto what we are doing in Government, let me say a word on Liberal Democrat party policy. My party will always advocate immigration policies that respect the rights and dignity of individuals – particularly the vulnerable. It’s because of us that children are no longer detained for immigration purposes. It’s because of us that the UK no longer deports people to countries where we know they’ll be persecuted for their sexuality. Both straight from our manifesto and two of my proudest achievements in government. But, at the last election we suggested that any illegal immigrant who had been here for 10 years should be able to earn their citizenship. We called it an earned route to citizenship. Our opponents dubbed it an ‘amnesty’. We felt it was an honest and pragmatic solution given the chaos in the Home Office and the obvious failure by Labour to identify where thousands of illegal immigrants were. Better surely, we asked, to get them to pay their taxes and make a proper contribution to our society, than to continue to live in the shadows? But, despite the policy’s aims, it was seen by many people as a reward for those who have broken the law. And so it risked undermining public confidence in the immigration system. The very public confidence that is essential to a tolerant and open Britain. That is why I am no longer convinced this specific policy should be retained in our manifesto for the next General Election. So I have asked Andrew Stunell, the former Integration Minister, to lead a review of this and our other immigration policies in the run up to 2015. In Coalition, the Liberal Democrats are seeking to restore people’s faith in the system, confronting illegal activity with a vigour never seen from Labour, and in 2015 people will know that a vote for the Liberal Democrats is a vote for an immigration system they can believe in. A vote for a tolerant Britain that is zero-tolerant towards abuse. We’re clamping down on the most exploited routes into the country: tightening up what’s known as the ‘tier one route’, for example. It was supposedly for highly skilled visa applicants, but was routinely exploited by people who did not have those skills. The student route was riddled with holes. So we’re cracking down on bogus colleges. UKBA officers visited a college which had requested permission to bring in over 200 students. How many did they find studying that day? Two. Since 2010, almost 600 colleges have been removed from the list of registered visa sponsors. While we have to be realistic about UKBA’s enforcement budget in the current climate, we’re making sure money is better spent. For instance, reducing the opportunity for long, vexatious and costly appeals by those who have been refused the right to remain in Britain, while still safeguarding the right to a fair hearing. We’re cracking down on the profiteers. I can confirm today that the Coalition will increase the cash penalties for unscrupulous employers who hire illegal immigrants because they’re cheaper. Currently, the maximum fine is £10,000 per illegal worker. I’ve asked the Home Secretary to look into the right amount but personally I’d like to see it double. Employers need to get the message: they have an inescapable duty to employ people who are working here legally, not to turn a blind eye to those working illegally. And I’m determined that our police can come down on the criminal gangs who smuggle and traffic people into the country. We’re currently reviewing policing cooperation with our European partners. But I’m clear that we must not jeopardise any arrangements that help us tackle this kind of cross-border crime. Criminals go across borders; so must we. In addition to these crackdowns, I can also confirm we’re looking at a powerful new tool to help deal with the problem of people overstaying on their visas. Visa overstayers make up a major part of UKBA’s enforcement caseload – clogging up the system. As early as 2006 we had reports from Select Committees, arguing that visa overstaying would be one of the biggest challenges for our immigration system in the 21st century. As people travel more – for work, for holidays – you have more people coming into the country for temporary periods and so you need to find ways to make sure they leave. The challenge isn’t just stopping people coming into Britain illegally, it’s about dealing with individuals who come over legitimately but then become illegal once they’re already here. One idea, which appeals to me, is a system of security bonds. And so I’ve asked the Home Office to do some work on it with a view to running a pilot before the end of the year. The basic premise is simple: in certain cases, when a visa applicant is coming from a high risk country, in addition to satisfying the normal criteria, UKBA would be able to request a deposit – a kind of cash guarantee. Once the visitor leaves Britain, the bond will be repaid. Clearly, we need to look into the detail and seek a wide range of views, including from the Home Affairs Select Committee. The bonds would need to be well-targeted – so that they don’t unfairly discriminate against particular groups. The amounts would need to be proportionate – we mustn’t penalise legitimate visa applicants who will struggle to get hold of the money. Visiting Britain to celebrate a family birth, or a relative’s graduation, or wedding should not become entirely dependant on your ability to pay the security bond. And I would want a system that is welcomed by legitimate visitors rather than place a great burden on them. Done right, this would speed up the application process, giving UKBA greater confidence about people’s intentions, allowing them to make better, faster decisions. In today’s world, illegal immigration happens in different ways – and we need to think innovatively to keep up. Finally, assurance number three: that immigration as a whole benefits Britain and British citizens. Migration contributes to the public purse – we mustn’t forget that. But it is important, with budgets under strain that as many people as possible contribute to the economy and support themselves. We’re asking that of British citizens – it is right that we ask the same of visitors to Britain. So the Coalition has reformed work visas so that every worker coming here has a proper job offer and a minimum salary. And we’ve changed family visas to introduce a minimum income for anyone bringing over a partner or spouse. While it’s right that, if businesses can’t find the skills they need they can bring people in from outside the UK. As we tackle unemployment and rebuild our economy, we also need to be asking why that’s the case at all. Why aren’t our young men and women equipped to do these jobs? So the Coalition is creating record numbers of apprenticeships – over one million since the election. And I want to make sure we have the right plans in place for so-called ‘shortage occupations’ – the specific professions where we lack skills. There are 34 currently on the list. Paediatricians, maths teachers, chemical and mechanical engineers, to name a few. And we are now asking employers and their representative bodies, including Sector Skills Councils, to work with the Government on our plans to build up Britain’s homegrown skills for each profession: making sure we’re on track. I believe people will have more faith in our immigration system if they see that we are doing everything we can to help young British men and women into work. To that end, the Coalition has also capped unskilled migration from outside the EU. The Government is also looking at the access migrants have to services and benefits. Fairness isn’t just about what people put into the system: it’s what also about what they take out. This work is extremely complex. Labour left us a huge, unwieldy welfare state, full of contradiction. In some place the arrangements are already quite strict, in others they are much more loose and opaque. So now we are systematically working through to see where reform is necessary. No decisions have been taken yet and the PM will be saying more about his views on Monday. But I want to make clear that this is very much a Coalition agenda, with both sides working together. For the Liberal Democrats, it is entirely right that we close loopholes and ensure that the welfare system is not open to abuse. For social cohesion, as much as anything else. One area where I’ve asked for further work, for instance is on the translation services available to individuals accessing public services. The Government currently spends tens of millions of pounds on translation services and materials. And, of course, people should get help, if they need it to understand what their doctor is saying, or how to sign their children up for school, or what's going on at a court hearing. But there's a missed opportunity here to improve people's English so that, in the long term, they don't need those translators and the taxpayer spends less. We've already raised the level of English required from a number of different groups: skilled workers, the husbands and wives of migrants coming to the UK. But we need to do more to help people who are already here. In 2011 we introduced powers for Jobcentre advisers to mandate people on job-related benefits to learn English if their level of language skills is stopping them from finding work. I've asked Iain Duncan Smith to report back to me on how this is being implemented. I want to make sure it's being rolled out effectively across the country. And where people need a translator to interact with services, I've asked Mark Harper, the Immigration Minister, to look at whether we could refer them onto an English language course. And, if people refuse to stick with those courses, we should consider making them pay for their translation services instead. To a lot of people, that’s just common sense. We’ll be saying more about this, and the other areas under review, over the coming weeks and months. So in conclusion, we are grappling with the difficult challenges in our immigration system. Brick by brick, we are rebuilding it. Day by day we are making sure, quite simply, that it works. All the British people ask is for a system they can have confidence in. We hear that, and we are delivering it. I’m determined we lay the foundations for an immigration system that embodies this nation’s instincts and its values: our openness and tolerance on one hand; our sense of fair play, on the other. The Liberal Democrats are at the forefront of that. We want to stay a tolerant Britain, and to that end we will be zero-tolerant of abuse. 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Find out more about cookies Tell us what you think of GOV.UK No thanks Take the 3 minute survey This will open a short survey on another website News story Tough new housing rules to control immigration Organisation: Department for Communities and Local Government Page history: Updated 8 May 2013, see all updates Updated text to include measures announced in the Queen's Speech 2013. 8 May 2013 3:03pm First published. 25 March 2013 1:39pm Policies: Improving the rented housing sector and Providing housing support for older and vulnerable people Topic: Housing Topical event: Queen’s Speech 2013 Ministers: The Rt Hon David Cameron MP and The Rt Hon Eric Pickles MP Fair play for social housing and denying illegal migrants rented homes. Social housing New measures announced in today’s (8 May 2013) Queen’s Speech will help tackle illegal immigration and ensure those living in the private rented sector have leave to remain in this country. First set out by the Prime Minister in March, new legislation will stop rogue landlords cashing in from renting homes to illegal migrants; and new rules will ensure fair play in taxpayer-funded social housing. Welcoming the proposals, Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said it was right that action was taken to tackle rogue landlords who unscrupulously target and exploit migrants, and to make sure local people are prioritised for social housing, reducing the number of people who are living in this country illegally. These measures will help tackle the ‘pull’ factors which have lead to unsustainable immigration. But Mr Pickles was also clear that in making these changes, the government will avoid burdening the private rented sector with excessive red tape and will not adversely affect UK nationals looking to rent. Social housing Ministers want to tackle the widespread perception that the way social housing is allocated is unfair and favours foreign migrants over local people and the armed forces. One in 6 of all existing social housing tenants in London are now foreign nationals, and across England, almost 1 in 10 of all new social housing tenancies are given to foreign nationals. So new rules will ensure that councils give priority to local people when allocating their social housing. Ministers will introduce new statutory guidance for councils, requiring them to amend their allocation policies to ensure only those with a well-established local residency and local connections will go on the waiting lists and qualify for a taxpayer-funded social home. Councils will be required to make exceptions to support members of the armed forces who apply for housing, who may not have established local residency due to the nature of their work. Rogue landlords At the same time minsters want to ensure tenants in private rented housing are not living in the UK illegally. The government is already working with councils to tackle rogue landlords who exploit immigrants by housing them in ‘beds in sheds’. Many private landlords already make checks on tenants’ identity and credit status, making it difficult for illegal migrants to rent properties from them. But not all landlords do that, and a small minority of rogue landlords knowingly target illegal migrants who are not in a position to complain about sub-standard accommodation. The Immigration Bill, introduced in the Queen’s Speech today, would require future private landlords to make simple checks on new tenants to make sure that they are entitled to be in this country. The government will ensure that UK nationals are not adversely affected and avoid red tape on honest landlords in the private rented sector. The Department for Communities and Local Government will consult on the proposals, which will be straightforward, quick and inexpensive for law-abiding landlords and tenants to comply with. Action could be targeted at particular high-risk sectors, such as houses in multiple occupation. Mr Pickles said landlords could play an important role in making it harder for illegal migrants to live here, and would receive support from public bodies such as the UK Border Agency to make the necessary checks. The new checks would complement the government’s ongoing work on ‘beds in sheds’. Eric Pickles said: The public don’t like the way that taxpayer-subsidised social housing is allocated, when foreign migrants can benefit over local people and members of the armed forces. This perception of unfainess undermines community cohesion and fuels further unsustainable immigration. Confusion around equality rules and European laws have led some to believe that councils cannot prioritise local people when allocating their taxpayer-funded social homes. This is wrong, and I want to restore a sense of fair play to social housing. It’s time to back those who work hard and do the right thing, and prioritise social housing for those people who deserve it the most. At the same time we are taking action to stop rogue landlords who cash in from housing illegal immigrants. These tough measures will send out a strong signal and help reduce unsustainable immigration. Strengthening the rules on social housing Migrants from the European Economic Area are eligible for social housing if they are working, self-sufficient or have permanent residence in the UK - after 5 years. Other foreign nationals are not eligible unless they have been granted humanitarian protections or have obtained settled status. The guidance, to be published for consultation shortly, will ensure councils require people to have lived in the area for at least 2 years. Only those who passed this test would be accepted onto the waiting list in the local area - and then would be considered for social housing. It will also encourage them to set other local rules for testing a resident’s connection to the area. This could include: * having attended the local school * having family living in the local area The guidance will reinforce powers given to councils through the 2011 Localism Act, which gives them greater freedoms to manage their own waiting lists and to decide who should qualify for social homes in their area. Further information One in 6 of all existing social housing tenants in London are now foreigners (non-British/non-Irish, data for 2009 to 2010), and across England, almost 1 in 10 of all new social housing tenants are given to foreign migrants (Hansard, 5 December 2012, Col. 766W). Figures started to be compiled in 2007. Since then the proportion of new social lets to foreign nationals has risen from 6.5% in 2007 to 2008 to 9.0% in 2011 to 2012 across England (latest CORE datasets). Data on the nationality of new social tenants was not recorded for a third of lettings by councils in London last year, as requested by the government (Hansard, 29 January 2013, Col. 700W). The government is working with these councils to improve the data collected. Share this page * Share on Facebook * Share on Twitter Published: 25 March 2013 Updated: 8 May 2013 + full page history 8 May 2013 3:03pm Updated text to include measures announced in the Queen's Speech 2013. 25 March 2013 1:39pm First published. Organisation: Department for Communities and Local Government Policies: Improving the rented housing sector Providing housing support for older and vulnerable people Topical event: Queen’s Speech 2013 Ministers: The Rt Hon David Cameron MP The Rt Hon Eric Pickles MP Is there anything wrong with this page? Help us improve GOV.UK Please don't include any personal or financial information, for example your National Insurance or credit card numbers. 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Search ____________________ Search Primary navigation * Home * Parliamentary business * MPs, Lords & offices * About Parliament * Get involved * Visiting * Education * House of Commons * House of Lords * What's on * Bills & legislation * Committees * Publications & records * Parliament TV * News * Topics You are here: Parliament home page > Parliamentary business > Publications and Records > Lords Publications > Lords Hansard > Lords Hansard by Date > Daily Hansard 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA87 Written Answers Thursday 17 October 2013 Afghanistan: Women Questions Asked by Lord Hylton To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to prevent the abduction, rape and torture of women in Afghanistan, when external forces withdraw.[HL2421] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): In June, the Afghan National Security Forces, supported by the international community, took the lead responsibility for security in all areas of Afghanistan, this includes policing. The UK’s commitment to Afghanistan and the Afghan people will not end when international combat forces leave Afghanistan after the end of 2014. Tackling violence and discrimination against women is an important part of our work in Afghanistan and is fundamental to upholding basic human rights and to supporting the role of women in securing a stable and prosperous future Afghanistan. We regularly raise respect for women's rights and the protection of women's security with the Afghan government and wider Afghan Authorities and will continue to do so. Implementation of the Afghan Elimination of Violence Against Women Law was specifically included in the Tokyo Mutual Accountability Framework, the partnership between the Afghan government and the international community. We, along with our international partners, will hold the Afghan government to account for the commitments they have made. Our assistance to the Ministry of Interior goes in part towards helping to improve the Afghan National Police’s role in protecting and upholding women's rights. It also supports the development of Afghan policy on promoting human rights and protecting women from violence. Asked by Lord Hylton To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking to ensure that women’s refuges remain open in Afghanistan when the government of Afghanistan assumes full responsibility.[HL2424] Baroness Northover (LD): DFID recognises the important role of refuges as part of the response to violence against women in Afghanistan. The UK provides funding to NGOs who work to protect women from violence in Afghanistan. Although this funding is not earmarked for any particular activity, their work includes the running of women’s refuges. Airports: Aircraft Noise Question Asked by Lord Taylor of Warwick To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the risks to vulnerable people living near the busiest airports in the United Kingdom of stroke and heart disease related to aircraft noise.[HL2538] 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA88 The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD): Public Health England funded a recently published study by the Small Area Health Statistics Unit, based at Imperial College London, on the risk of hospital admissions and deaths from stroke, heart disease and circulatory disease in neighbourhoods exposed to aircraft noise related to Heathrow airport. The Government will evaluate the study alongside other existing evidence to consider future policy implications in this area. Armenia and Azerbaijan Questions Asked by Lord Hylton To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the European Union has a budget for confidence-building measures and normalisation of relations between Armenia and Azerbaijan; and, if so, whether the budget includes support for non-governmental organisations and civil society in preparing public opinion in those countries for peace.[HL2513] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): The EU is providing €6 million over three years ending in financial year 2014-15 for confidence building measures. This primarily funds a coalition of non-governmental organisations ‘The European Partnership for the Peaceful Settlement of the Conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh (EPNK).’ The work of EPNK is organised around three themes: media, public policy and conflict-affected groups. EPNK projects have involved bringing together activists and residents from conflict affected communities across the Line of Contact with the aim of building mutual understanding and confidence between the communities. The UK government has allocated funding of £700,000 for financial year 2013-14 for projects focusing on the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Successful bids for funding for financial year 2013-14 include projects aiming to increase informal contact between governmental representatives acting in their personal capacity, representatives of governmental think-tanks and others to develop an approach to confidence building measures which will complement and strengthen the official process. Asked by Lord Hylton To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the European Union is engaging with the governments of Armenia and Azerbaijan in developing plans for the sharing of water resources between those countries, and for future economic co-operation between Armenia and Azerbaijan.[HL2514] Baroness Warsi: Engagement in economic co-operation has proved a valuable tool in conflict settlement disputes. The UK envisages economic co-operation between Armenia and Azerbaijan being part of a settlement to the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. The EU Special Representative (EUSR) for the South Caucasus and the Crisis in Georgia, drawing on experiences in other conflict settlement processes, has offered support to 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA89 the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) in considering a water sharing programme in the conflict affected region. The European Union supports the efforts of the OSCE Minsk Group in working for a peaceful settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, and EUSR Lefort remains in close consultation with the Personal Representative of the OSCE Chairman-in-Office, Andrzej Kasprzyk. Asylum Seekers Questions Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assistance they have offered and provided to (1) Italy, and (2) Syria’s neighbouring countries, to guarantee north African asylum seekers (a) safe entry to the European Union (temporary or otherwise), and (b) access to fair and efficient asylum procedures.[HL2375] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con): The Government is keen to ensure that, where European Union (EU) Member States' migration systems come under pressure, support is provided in the form of practical cooperation. The European Asylum Support Office (EASO) is the primary mechanism for the provision of such support within the EU. The UK actively contributes to EASO, including providing staff for EASO's Asylum Support Teams. EASO is currently providing support to Italy in the form of a Special Support plan that was signed on 4 June 2013. With regard to Syria, I share the deep concern of others regarding the worsening humanitarian crisis. The Government has provided £500 million already to the regional Syrian relief effort. Beyond the provision of humanitarian aid, the Government's objective is to ensure that effective protection is provided in the region and that support is given to the neighbouring countries that are bearing the brunt of the displacement. With over two million people now having been displaced from Syria, regional protection is the only realistic means by which the rights of the vast majority of displaced persons can be safeguarded. Accordingly, the Government supports the EU's plans to establish a Regional Protection Programme (RPP) for those displaced by the Syrian crisis. In July we confirmed that the UK is prepared to contribute up to Euro 500,000 to the programme and we look forward to playing an active and constructive role on the programme's Steering Committee. Our participation in this project in line with our strong view is that it is best for displaced people to be provided protection as close to their region of origin as possible, rather than being brought to the EU. Asked by Lord Laird To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Lord Taylor of Holbeach on 25 February (WA 188), how many asylum seekers who have arrived in the United Kingdom in the last five years were first registered in Greece; how many of those have been returned to Greece; how many have 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA90 arrived since the decision not to return asylum seekers to Greece following the judgment by the European Court of Human Rights in the case of MSS v Belgium and Greece (Application no. 30696/09); and when they expect that sufficient progress will be made by Greece towards meeting the Court’s requirements on improved detention facilities to allow the return of asylum seekers to resume.[HL2390] Lord Taylor of Holbeach: Since 2008, the Home Office is aware of 4,708 cases where evidence suggests that there were previous links to Greece. A total of 564 cases were returned to Greece under the Dublin Regulation between 2008 and September 2010. In September 2010, a decision to suspend transfer from the UK to Greece under the Dublin Regulation was made. The decision was taken pending the outcome of the case of NS referred by the Court of Appeal to the European Court of Justice. As a result, asylum applications that would have otherwise been the responsibility of Greece fell to be considered substantively in the UK by the Home Office. Since this decision was taken, approximately 1,164 cases have been identified by the Home Office that would have otherwise been the responsibility of Greece. Greece is continuing to implement its Action Plan on Managed Migration and Asylum Reform. There have been some notable improvements in Greece's asylum system, including the opening of the new Asylum Service in June 2013. The UK and other Member States continue to offer support to Greece via the European Asylum Support Office, however we judge that more progress is still needed in all aspects of the Greek asylum system before the EU can be confident that a resumption of Dublin returns to Greece would stand up to judicial scrutiny. Note: The above statistics are based on management information data that is not quality assured under National Statistics protocols. The figures do not constitute part of National Statistics and should be treated as provisional. Asked by Lord Laird To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made about the treatment of asylum seekers, and in particular children, in the Republic of Ireland; and whether they have made any representations to the government of that country about the matter.[HL2392] Lord Taylor of Holbeach: Officials are in regular contact with their counterparts in the Irish administration. We are satisfied that Ireland is a safe country for the removal of asylum seekers, including children, from the UK in accordance with its position in the list of safe countries at Part two of Schedule three to the Immigration and Asylum (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Act 2004, The Government has therefore not made any representations to the Irish Government regarding its treatment of asylum seekers. The Government is aware that the High Court of Justice in Northern Ireland recently found in favour of the applicants in the case of ALJ and others regarding the Secretary of State for the Home Department's 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA91 failure to have regard to the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of the children in the family as required by section 55 of the Borders, Immigration and Citizenship Act 2009 when proposing to transfer the family from the UK to Ireland under the Dublin Regulation (EC) No. 343/2003. At the same time, however, we also note that the High Court fully rejected the contention that there is a systemic deficiency in Ireland's asylum or reception procedures amounting to a real risk of asylum applicants. including children, being subjected to inhuman or degrading treatment on return to Ireland. Asked by Lord Avebury To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many asylum cases were awaiting first decisions at (1) the latest convenient date, and (2) twelve months earlier. [HL2446] Lord Taylor of Holbeach: The latest date for which published National Statistics on asylum pending cases are available is the second quarter of 2013. The number of asylum applications pending an initial decision for main applicants was 7,201 at the end of 2012 Q2 and 9,866 at the end of 2013 Q2. The number of asylum applications pending an initial decision for main applicants and dependants was 9,188 at the end of 2012 Q2 and 13,124 at the end of 2013 Q2. These increases coincide with an increase in asylum applications in the preceding years, from 26,148 in the year ending 2012 Q2 to 29,528 in the year ending 2013 Q2 for main applicants and dependants. The figures for the number of asylum applications pending an initial decision on a quarterly basis are published as National Statistics in Tables as_01_.q (main applicants) and as02_q (main applicants and dependants) in Asylum data tables Volume one of Immigration Statistics. The latest release Immigration Statistics April — June 2013 is available in the Library of the House and from: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april -to-june-2013. Central African Republic Questions Asked by Baroness Berridge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the findings of the report by Human Rights Watch I can still smell the dead concerning the situation in the Central African Republic.[HL2384] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): We remain extremely concerned about human rights abuses in the Central African Republic (CAR). CAR’s National Transitional Council needs to do more to address this, and those responsible for abuses must be held accountable for their actions. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA92 We welcome the appointment at the September 2013 UN Human Rights Council Summit of an Independent Expert to monitor human rights abuses, and of UN Resolution 2121 which reinforced the mandate of United Nations Integrated Peacebuilding Office in CAR (BINUCA) to promote and protect human rights. The Minister for Africa, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Mr Simmonds), discussed the humanitarian situation in CAR with key African and International interlocutors at a High Level event during the United Nations General Assembly on 25 September 2013. Asked by Baroness Berridge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the security implications for the neighbouring region of the level of effectiveness of government in the Central African Republic. [HL2385] Baroness Warsi: The situation in the Central African Republic (CAR) is largely confined within its borders, but the lack of security and effective governance has the potential to cause problems for its neighbours. We believe that security needs to be improved as a first step to allow the N’Djamena political process to progress. The return of a constitutional and effective government is vital for the long-term stability of CAR and is in the best interests of the region as a whole. Asked by Baroness Berridge To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they agree with the assessment of the French Foreign Secretary Laurent Fabius that the Central African Republic is a stateless area.[HL2386] Baroness Warsi: We are very concerned by the political and security situation in the Central African Republic. The N’Djamena Accords of April 2013 established a National Transitional Council (NTC) to act as the national legislature under the Head of Government, Prime Minister Tiangaye. They also established a clear roadmap for a return to constitutional government. However, the NTC needs to do more to address the levels of lawlessness and continuing violence and human rights abuses across the Central African Republic. Asked by Baroness Berridge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the President of France prior to his visit to South Africa on 14 October concerning the security situation in the Central African Republic.[HL2387] Baroness Warsi: We have held regular discussions with France and other key international partners on the security situation in the Central African Republic (CAR). We are working particularly closely with France in the EU and the UN Security Council to agree how the international community should respond. This has included working together on UN Security Council Resolution 2121 which was adopted on 10 October. The Minister for Africa, my hon. Friend the Member 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA93 for Boston and Skegness (Mr Simmonds), also attended a meeting at the UN General Assembly on Wednesday 25 September 2013 at which he and French Foreign Minister Fabius both spoke at a High Level event with key African and International interlocutors to discuss the humanitarian situation in CAR. Asked by Baroness Berridge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of South Africa and to the African Union about the case for establishing a peacekeeping force in the Central African Republic.[HL2388] Baroness Warsi: The UK and South Africa enjoy a close dialogue on regional security and peacekeeping issues, including regular discussion at both Ministerial and official level. This was re-affirmed at the UK-South Africa Ministerial Bilateral Forum in Cape Town on 10 September 2013 where the Foreign Secretary led the UK delegation. The communiqué noted that Ministers discussed recent developments in Central African Republic (CAR) and welcomed South Africa’s growing peacekeeping role on the continent. The UK regularly discusses CAR with the African Union (AU). At the CAR International Contact Group meeting in July we welcomed an AU report recommending the reinforcement of the regional security force in CAR, MICOPAX, and made a further statement on 19 August in the AU Peace and Security Council which called for an end to violence against CAR’s civilians. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Mr Simmonds) has also discussed CAR with African foreign Ministers, such as Cameroon Minister for External Relations, and Chairperson of the AU, ND Zuma, in September 2013. Civil Service: Corporate Credit Cards Questions Asked by The Lord Bishop of Derby To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are the rules and criteria for the issuing of corporate credit cards to civil servants; and how the use of such cards is monitored and audited.[HL1587] Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con): The Government Procurement Card (GPC) is a payment charge card used for making low value purchases. Its proper use contributes to making efficiencies. All Departments have a clear policy for card allocation. The GPC Steering Group, established after the last General Election, has developed minimum policy standards for central Government departments and their Arm’s Length Bodies (ALBs). GPC Central Policy describes the roles and responsibilities for personnel that are required to govern and control local GPC programmes. These policies have been shared with the National Audit Office (NAO) and must be followed by all departments using GPCs. Before the last General Election there was no central oversight of Government GPC card use. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA94 All Departments now operate compliance checking processes which include transaction logs that must be reconciled with bank statements and receipts each month; and the requirement for budget managers to reconcile GPC payment to ensure compliance with approved spend. The departmental controls, in accordance with GPC policy, include monthly compliance checking, including identifying off-contract spend and clear guidance for users on the correct route-to-buy. All spend on GPCs over £500 is now published. Asked by Lord Marlesford To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many corporate cards are currently on issue to civil servants employed by (1) the Cabinet Office, (2) HM Treasury, (3) the Home Office, (4) the Department for Culture Media and Sport, (5) the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, and (5) the Department of Energy and Climate Change.[HL1588] Lord Gardiner of Kimble: As at 7 May 2013 the core departments have the following number of cards supplied via the Government Procurement Service (GPS) Government Procurement Card (GPC) framework: (1) Cabinet Office – 242 (2) HM Treasury – 163 (3) Home Office – 241 (4) Department for Culture Media and Sport – 52 (5) Department of Energy and Climate Change – 0 These figures are for core Whitehall departments only and exclude agencies, NDPBs and ALBs. Energy: Smart Meters Question Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Statement by Baroness Verma on 8 October concerning smart meters (WS 12–14), what action they are taking to ensure that households are given specific advice that the installation of smart meters in their premises is voluntary.[HL2598] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Baroness Verma) (Con): Energy suppliers will be required to take all reasonable steps to roll out smart meters to all their domestic and non-domestic customers by 31 December 2020, and to offer their domestic customers an in-home display. The roll-out of smart meters will bring significant benefits to consumers and the nation. We expect consumers to welcome the benefits smart meters will bring. However there will not be a legal obligation on individuals to have one. The Government has produced an information leaflet giving an overview of the smart metering implementation programme for the domestic sector. The leaflet is available on the Gov.uk website: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/smart-metering-implementatio n-programme-information-leaflet. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA95 Energy suppliers will have the primary consumer engagement role on smart metering as the main interface with their customers before, during and after installation. Supplier engagement will be supported by a programme of centralised engagement undertaken by a Central Delivery Body (CDB), which was set up in June 2013. Equal Pay Question Asked by Baroness Scotland of Asthal To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have conducted an assessment as to how equal pay audits under the Equality Act 2010 will alleviate the 2012 median full-time gender pay gap for hourly earnings.[HL2228] Baroness Northover (LD): New section 139A of the Equality Act 2010 (as inserted by the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013), gives Ministers the power to make regulations requiring employment tribunals to order an employer to carry out an equal pay audit where the employer has been found by the tribunal to have discriminated against an employee because of sex in relation to pay. It is intended that regulations will be made under this provision to come into force in October 2014. The measure will not, by itself, provide a solution to the gender pay gap, but we do think it will be a useful tool in tackling it. The Government is using a voluntary, business-led approach to help drive the culture change necessary to address the pay gap. It has introduced Think, Act, Report to promote greater transparency on gender employment issues, including pay. Over 125 companies are now supporting this initiative, representing nearly two million people. European Court of Human Rights Question Asked by Lord Laird To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to change the policy of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office whereby they refuse to provide electronic copies of submissions made by the United Kingdom to the European Court of Human Rights in recently heard cases where those submissions may be read by members of the public at the Court’s offices in Strasbourg.[HL2391] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): Requests for copies of observations submitted to the European Court of Human Rights by the Government of the United Kingdom are considered within the framework of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. In accordance with section 32 of the Act, information held by a public authority is exempt from disclosure if it is held only by virtue of being contained in any document filed with, or otherwise placed in the custody of, a court for the purposes of proceedings in a particular cause or matter. This exemption generally applies to the written observations submitted by the Government to the European Court of Human Rights. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA96 The Court has a system to allow access to case files, including observations submitted by the Government, in certain circumstances. Details are provided by the Court on its website at: www.echr. coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=court/howitworks&c=#n 1368167237303_pointer. Unless one of the exceptions applies, case files can be consulted in person at the Court building by appointment. There are no plans to change our practice. Export Licences Question Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many export licences for the shipment of (1) potassium fluoride, (2) sodium fluoride, and (3) any other precursor chemicals used in the manufacture of chemical weapons, have been granted to United Kingdom companies; and, of those licences, what quantities of the above chemicals have been shipped to (a) the Assad regime in Syria, and (b) Syrian recipient companies, in each of the last ten years and to date in 2013.[HL2371] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Viscount Younger of Leckie) (Con): In the last 10 years one licence was granted for the export to Syria of potassium fluoride, in 2012, and six licences were granted for the export to Syria of sodium fluoride – one each in years 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2010 & 2012. No other licences have been granted for export to Syria of chemicals capable of use in the manufacture of chemical weapons. A minimum of 4050kg and a maximum of 4150kg of sodium fluoride was exported under licence between 2004 and 2012. It is not possible to give precise figures because HMRC is only required to keep export records for a maximum of 3 calendar years from the year in which the export was submitted to them and some exports were made before this period. No potassium fluoride was shipped because the licence concerned was revoked and no shipments had been made. The two licences granted in 2012, which were revoked before any shipments were made, were for use in a metal finishing process for making aluminium showers and window frames; all other licences were for the manufacture of toothpaste. All the end-users were commercial companies. Freedom of Religion Question Asked by The Lord Bishop of Derby To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Baroness Warsi on 22 July (WA 167), what steps they are taking with their European partners to ensure that the European Union guidelines on the promotion and protection of freedom of religion or belief, as agreed by the Council of Ministers on 24 June, are put into operation.[HL2339] 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA97 The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): Following their agreement by the Council of Ministers, the European Union guidelines have been used to inform lobbying on freedom of religion or belief issues by EU country offices and the embassies of individual Member States. They have also guided EU activity in multilateral fora, for example in developing resolutions on freedom of religion or belief at the UN General Assembly. Implementation of the guidelines, and their effectiveness to date, is due to be discussed by the EU’s human rights’ working group in the near future. Government Departments: Data Question Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark To ask Her Majesty’s Government what changes they have made to the reporting of data at the Cabinet Office since May 2010.[HL2198] Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con): We are committed to being the most transparent Government in history and the Cabinet Office has been at the forefront of this transformation. After the last General Election, ministers and non-executives were shocked at the poor quality and paucity of management information. The Cabinet Office commissioned Dr Martin Read CBE, former CEO of Logica and a member of the government's Efficiency and Reform Board, to recommend steps to improve the quality and consistency of management information across government. Dr Reads report confirmed that raising the quality of information available to ministers and civil service leaders will improve decision-making. increase Whitehall efficiency and help deliver savings for the taxpayer. Since 2010, all departments are required to produce Quarterly Data Summaries which includes data on DEL and AME spend, cost of running the estate, IT and corporate services costs and details on policy and policy implementation. These are available online. The QDS has since been revised and improved in line with action 9 of the Civil Service Reform Plan to establish a consistent and comparable quarterly reporting framework. The revised QDS has a greater focus on common areas of spend and is supported by a set of commonly agreed data definitions, In June 2012, the Cabinet Office published its first Open Data strategy, setting out the context and background to our approach; outlining the types of data we hold as a department and how we intend to treat it in line with our drive to greater transparency. More detail on this can be found in the Cabinet Office Annual Report and Accounts 2012-13: www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/22598 0/HC_15.pdf Government Departments: Expenditure Question Asked by Baroness Tonge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was or will be the Department for International Development’s total expenditure, including funding streams, on (1) the United Nations Population Fund, (2) Marie 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA98 Stopes International, (3) the International Planned Parenthood Federation and (4) Women and Children First (UK), in (a) 2010–11, (b) 2011–12, (c) 2012–13, (d) 2013–14 and (e) 2014–15.[HL2359] Baroness Northover (LD): The information required is contained in DFID Statistics on International Development (SID) 2012 tables for the period 2007/8 – 2011/12 - tables 18 and 19. The link is as follows: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statistics-on-international- development Future forecast funding figures for UNFPA and the NGOs in question are not available at this time. Relevant additional information can be found in the DFID Annual Report and Accounts 2012 -13, Chapter 4 (page 101) which has an in-depth section on the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA). This is available at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dfid-annual-report-and-accou nts-2012-13 Harbours Question Asked by Lord Berkeley To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are the remaining outstanding issues before they can give final approval to allow the works at Penzance and St Mary’s harbours agreed in principle by Ministers two months ago to go ahead.[HL2581] The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD): Final approval of the funding that Ministers are minded to provide for this scheme can be considered once there is an assurance of compatibility with the European state aid rules and once the promoters have secured the necessary funding contribution from the EU Convergence Programme. Health: Incontinence Question Asked by Baroness Masham of Ilton To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure that patients who are suffering from bleeding will be able to receive the same prescription incontinence pads as patients with urinary and faecal incontinence.[HL2405] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Appliances listed in Part IX of the Drug Tariff can be prescribed and dispensed for patients on the National Health Service. Incontinence pads (including products not necessarily described as such but using the absorption principle) are not prescribable on the NHS under the Drug Tariff provisions, whether for urinary and faecal incontinence or for patients suffering from bleeding. Health: Molecular Diagnostic Services Question Asked by Baroness Masham of Ilton To ask Her Majesty’s Government when NHS England will make an announcement regarding the Department of Health’s proposal to introduce national commissioning for molecular diagnostics services across England.[HL2454] 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA99 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): NHS England's Molecular Diagnostic Testing Group will be developing national commissioning policy in this area in response to the Department's proposals regarding access to molecular diagnostic testing. It is hoped that an interim policy position to inform national commissioning can be developed by spring 2014. Homosexuality Question Asked by Baroness Scotland of Asthal To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of the Commonwealth Charter on the decriminalisation of homosexuality in Commonwealth countries.[HL2499] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): We have made no formal assessment of the impact of the Commonwealth Charter on the decriminalisation of homosexuality in Commonwealth countries. The Charter reflects the overarching values of the Commonwealth and the aspirations of its citizens. It states that “we are implacably opposed to all forms of discrimination, whether rooted in gender, race, colour, creed, political belief or other grounds.” The UK Government interprets ‘other grounds’ as including lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. However, we recognise that over 40 Commonwealth members still criminalise homosexuality. We want to ensure the Charter becomes a key document for holding Commonwealth members accountable to Commonwealth values. We are committed to working with the Commonwealth and its partners to help them uphold values of human rights, rule of law, democracy and development. We raise human rights issues with the Commonwealth Secretariat and with member states. We seek to increase debate on these issues, including on sexual orientation or gender identity, within and among Commonwealth countries. Iraq Question Asked by Lord Hylton To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they are assisting the search for political solutions in Iraq; and, if so, how.[HL2422] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): The Government continues to support Iraq in improving the security situation and building prosperity. Our work supports the cross-Government Iraq Strategy published in October 2012 and includes initiatives such as a £1.5 million project delivered by Global Partners to help to improve Iraq’s parliamentary process and build capacity. Further information about our work in Iraq can be found on our The UK in Iraq website at: www.gov.uk/government/world/iraq. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA100 Israel Questions Asked by Lord Dykes To ask Her Majesty’s Government what proposals they will put to the government of Israel to publish details of its nuclear arsenal and join the Non-Proliferation Treaty.[HL2350] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): We encourage Israel to sign up to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and call on Israel to agree a Comprehensive Safeguards Agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency. The Government of Israel is in no doubt as to our views. We do not intend to table any new proposals in the near future. Asked by Baroness Tonge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of Israel concerning the bulldozing of the Bedouin village Az Za’ayyem in land earmarked for settlement construction in E1.[HL2466] Baroness Warsi: Officials from our Embassy in Tel Aviv have repeatedly made representations on the issue of demolitions, including with the Israeli National Security Council. Our Ambassador in Tel Aviv raised the broader planning process and demolitions in Area C with the Israeli Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) on 8 October. Asked by Baroness Tonge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of Israel concerning the Israeli army’s barring of European Union and Red Cross relief tents following the demolition of the West Bank village of Makhul. [HL2467] Baroness Warsi: Our Ambassador in Tel Aviv has raised this issue with Israeli National Security Advisor Amidror. Officials from our Embassy in Tel Aviv have also raised this issue with the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Japan Questions Asked by Lord Campbell-Savours To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of Japan over Japanese governmental ministerial visits to the Yasukuni shrine to commemorate Japan's war dead including class A convicted World War II war criminals.[HL2429] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): We have made no recent representations to the Government of Japan regarding visits by Japanese ministers to the Yasukuni shrine. We are aware of reports that a number of Japanese Ministers 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA101 visited the shrine in August. However, the Japanese government has stated that these visits took place in a personal capacity. Asked by Lord Campbell-Savours To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will set out a list of bilateral agreements that exist between Japan and the United Kingdom on trade and military matters.[HL2431] Baroness Warsi: The following bilateral treaties exist between the UK and Japan on trade and military subjects: Title: Convention between Great Britain and Japan, for regulating the Admission of British Ships into the Ports of Japan. Signed: Nagasaki, 14 October, 1854. Title: Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Commerce, between Great Britain and Japan. Signed: Yedo, 26 August, 1858. Title: Treaty of Commerce and navigation between Great Britain and Japan. Signed: Tokyo, 16 July, 1894. Title: Supplementary Convention between Great Britain and Japan respecting the Duties to be Charged on British Goods Imported into Japan. Signed: Tokyo, 16 July, 1895. Title: Agreement between the United Kingdom and Japan. Signed: London, 12 August, 1905. Title: Treaty of Commerce and Navigation. Signed: London, 3 April, 1911. (Article 8 abrogated by Notes Exchanged on 14 July, 1924.) Title: Agreement between the United Kingdom and Japan. Signed: London, 3 July, 1911. (Similar provisions to 1905 Agreement.) Title: Agreement between the British and Japanese Governments respecting the Tonnage Measurement of Ships. Signed: London, 30 November, 1922. (Revived by Exchange of Notes dated 15 September 1952.) Title: Supplementary Convention to the Treaty of Commerce and Navigation between the United Kingdom and Japan together with Minutes of a meeting between the British and Japanese Representatives at the Foreign Office on July 30, 1925. Signed: London, 30 July, 1925. Title: Agreement between the Governments of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, India and Pakistan on the one part and the Government of Japan on the other part regarding British Commonwealth War Graves in Japanese Territory. Signed: Tokyo, 21 September, 1955. Title: Agreed Minute and Letters concerning Trade. Signed: London, 26 February, 1957. Title: Treaty of Commerce, Establishment and Navigation between the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Japan (with Protocols and Exchanges of Notes). Signed: London, 14 November, 1962. (With further Exchange of Notes done at Tokyo on 20 December, 1966.) Title: Exchange of Notes between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of Japan concerning the supply of Logistic Support to the United Kingdom Armed Forces. Signed: Tokyo, 18 January, 2002. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA102 Title: Exchange of Notes between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of Japan concerning the supply of Logistic Support to the United Kingdom Armed Forces. Signed: Tokyo, 5 February, 2008. Title: Agreement between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of Japan concerning the Transfer of Arms and Military Technologies Necessary to Implement Joint Research, Development and Production of Defence Equipment and other Related Items. Signed: London, 4 July, 2013. Title: Agreement between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of Japan on the Security of Information. Signed: London, 4 July, 2013. Asked by Lord Campbell-Savours To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will set out a list of multilateral agreements of which the United Kingdom and Japan are participants on trade and military matters.[HL2432] Baroness Warsi: A list of all agreements on multilateral trade and military issues applicable to both the UK and Japan would require detailed examination of a large number of individual instruments and could not be produced without disproportionate cost. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office keeps records of the UK’s treaty commitments but these are not structured in a way that would easily allow a comprehensive list to be produced. It is possible to view records and texts of treaties applicable to the UK at http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/treaties /treaty.htm. As an EU Member State, the UK is bound by agreements concluded on behalf of the European Union by the Council of the European Union. A list of such agreements can be found on the Council of the EU website at http://www.consilium. europa.eu/policies/agreements/search-the-agreements-database? lang=en. Both the UK and Japan are also members of the World Trade Organisation. Lithuania Question Asked by Lord Laird To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have made any policy changes in the light of the Supreme Court’s decision not to allow the government of Lithuania to appeal against the decision not to allow the extradition of Liam Campbell to that country; and whether they are aware of any planned challenge to that decision in the European Court of Human Rights.[HL2389] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con): The Government has not made any policy changes in light of the Supreme Court's decision not to allow the government of Lithuania to appeal against the decision not to allow the extradition of Liam Campbell. Any challenge to the decision of the Supreme Court would be a matter for an interested party. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA103 Migrant Workers Question Asked by Lord Dykes To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will reconsider their proposed ban on East European and other migrant workers coming to the United Kingdom to pick fresh fruit and vegetables in 2014.[HL2351] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con): There is no ban on migrant workers coming to pick fruit and vegetables in 2014. From 1 January 2014, nationals of Bulgaria and Romania will cease to be subject to restrictions on taking employment in the United Kingdom. This means that fruit and vegetable growers will have unrestricted access to workers from the European Union, except Croatia whose nationals continue to be subject to transitional employment restrictions. In his Written Ministerial Statement of 12 September 2013, Official Report, columns 60-61 WS, the Minister for Immigration announced that the Government will not introduce a new scheme for seasonal agricultural workers from outside the European Union. The Government believes that there should be sufficient workers from UK and EU labour markets to meet the needs of the horticultural sector, but will keep the labour supply situation under review. NHS: Migrant Access Questions Asked by Lord Touhig To ask Her Majesty’s Government what provision they intend to make under proposals to regulate migrant access to health services for non-European Economic Area migrants who are victims of (1) violent crime, (2) sexual assault, or (3) female genital mutilation.[HL2489] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what provisions they intend to make under proposals to regulate migrant access to health services for non-European Economic Area migrants experiencing complications in pregnancy.[HL2493] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the compatibility between their proposals to regulate migrant access to health services and their strategy to end violence against women and girls, in particular with regard to victim support. [HL2494] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con): The Government has proposed in the current Immigration Bill that a person subject to immigration control who applies for time-limited entry clearance or time-limited leave to remain in the UK for more than six months will be required to pay a health surcharge as a precondition of entry to the UK. Those who have paid the surcharge will generally be able to access free NHS care to the same extent as a permanent resident. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA104 Victims of violent crime, sexual assault, female genital mutilation and those experiencing complications in pregnancy will all receive free NHS treatment, where they have paid the Migrant Health Surcharge, where they have permanent residence status or where they fall in an exempt category under enabling powers created by the Immigration Bill. Short term visitors and illegal migrants will, as now, be generally liable for NHS treatment charges and will not have the option of paying a surcharge in order to access the NHS without further charge. But no chargeable patient in urgent need will ever be denied NHS treatment. The Government considered the impact of its proposed policy on victims of domestic violence during the policy development process. This consideration has been included in the Policy Equality Statement for the proposals which will be published prior to Second Reading of the Immigration Bill in the House of Commons. Nigeria Question Asked by Baroness Scotland of Asthal To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of Nigeria about the passing of the Nigerian Same Sex Marriage (Prohibition) Bill.[HL2497] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): We have lobbied regularly against the Bill during its passage through the House of Representatives and the Senate. Since the National Assembly approved the bill on 30 May 2013 we have raised our concerns with the President’s office. We are also working through the EU, and the EU Delegation has also raised EU concerns with the Nigerian government. Northern Lighthouse Board Question Asked by Lord Berkeley To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to the status of the Northern Lighthouse Board if the vote in the September 2014 Scottish referendum establishes independence for Scotland; and whether they will place in the Library of the House a copy of any impact assessment.[HL2510] The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD): Her Majesty’s Government is not making plans for Scottish independence and is confident that people in Scotland will continue to support Scotland remaining within the UK. Overseas Aid Question Asked by Baroness Tonge To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether their international aid budget supports the commercial interests of major agribusiness companies, including those involved in genetically modified crops.[HL2364] 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA105 Baroness Northover (LD): The UK Government believes global food and agribusiness companies can make an important contribution to economic development in agriculture by creating jobs and sourcing products from small-scale farms. The UK Government supports the New Alliance for Food Security and Nutrition, a joint initiative involving African governments, local and global companies and donors aimed at accelerating agriculture sector growth in Africa in order to lift 50 million people out of poverty by 2022. The UK does not directly fund the companies involved but supports a wide range of programmes in African partner countries to improve food security and raise small-scale farmers' incomes. Palestine Question Asked by Lord Hylton To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to United Nations Relief and Works Agency regarding the widening of its mandate to include Palestinian refugees in Kuwait and Iraq, and those who fled from there to third countries.[HL2423] Baroness Northover (LD): UNRWA’s mandate is determined by UN General Assembly resolution. The General Assembly repeatedly extends and expands the UNRWA mandate in response to developments in the region, most recently extending it to June 2014. It is not for states to determine the UNRWA mandate. Nevertheless, as a member of the UNRWA Advisory Commission, the UK can legitimately provide advice and assistance to the Commissioner General of UNRWA. In the absence of a lasting solution to the Palestinian refugee problem, we will continue to act in this capacity and to assist UNRWA to support the poorest and most vulnerable Palestinian refugees in the region. Pensions Question Asked by Lord Berkeley To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will place in the Library of the House the proposal to transfer the General Lighthouse Authorities’ pension scheme into the Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme; what independent analysis and scrutiny of the proposal has taken place; and what consultation is planned with stakeholders about the proposals and available funding.[HL2509] The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD): The Public Service Pensions Act 2013 entitles the General Lighthouse Authorities (GLAs) to join the Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme. It is for the GLAs to decide if and when they do so within the requirements of that Act. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA106 Post-2015 Development Framework Questions Asked by Baroness Tonge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to engage parliamentarians in the Post-2015 Development Framework following the United Nations’ Review Summit in August.[HL2360] To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the Prime Minister will meet parliamentarians to discuss their role in the Post-2015 Development Framework following the United Nations’ Review Summit in August.[HL2361] Baroness Northover (LD): The Government welcomes the interest and engagement shown by parliamentarians on the post 2015 agenda. Ministers and officials will continue to engage with parliamentarians on this issue. Rape Question Asked by Baroness Scotland of Asthal To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the proliferation of incidences of corrective rape against gay women throughout the Commonwealth.[HL2496] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): No systematic assessment has been made on the proliferation of incidences of corrective rape against gay women throughout the Commonwealth. However, the Government deplores any and all incidences of corrective rape. We welcome the recognition made by Commonwealth Women’s Affairs Ministers at their meeting in June that violence against women remains a critical issue affecting women’s empowerment and should receive priority attention in the post-2015 development framework. Republic of Ireland: Aids to Navigation Questions Asked by Lord Berkeley To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many meetings Department for Transport Ministers have had with (1) Republic of Ireland officials, or (2) Republic of Ireland ministers, in (a) 2012, and (b) 2013, on the subject of ceasing payment for the provision of the Republic of Ireland’s aids to navigation.[HL2507] To ask Her Majesty’s Government on what date the Republic of Ireland will assume responsibility for the service provision and costs of the aids to navigation in Irish territorial waters; when a figure for the historical liabilities associated with the severance will be reached; what figure the Department of Transport envisages being acceptable to ship-owners who pay light dues when entering United Kingdom ports; and when the rate of such light dues will start being reduced as a result of the change.[HL2508] 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA107 The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD): The process for achieving full domestic funding for the Commissioners of Irish Lights’ (CIL) operations in the Republic of Ireland remains on course for completion in 2015-16. Irish and UK transport ministers discussed this subject at one meeting in 2012. There have been no such meetings to date this year. The historic pension liability of CIL is €184m. Her Majesty’s Government is assessing how all the General Lighthouse Authorities’ (GLAs) historic pension liabilities should be treated and will consult with the Lights Advisory Committee (LAC) on its proposed approach. The level of light dues is decided by ministers annually, after consultation with the LAC and GLAs. Roma Genocide Question Asked by Baroness Whitaker To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to support in the Council of Europe the proposal by the European Roma and Travellers Forum that all member states commemorate, and recognise as genocide, the killing of Roma during the Second World War.[HL2453] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): The Government agrees that the Roma genocide in the Second World War should be recognised and commemorated. We believe that member states should decide how and when to do this, according to their national circumstances. In the UK, we commemorate the Roma genocide as part of our annual Holocaust Memorial Day on 27 January. A number of our embassies also participate in local commemorations of the Roma genocide. Sellafield Question Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool To ask Her Majesty’s Government, with reference to the announcement on 4 October of the Sellafield contract extension by the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority (NDA), whether the NDA and the existing consortium will seek wider, external commercial and other technical and management expertise where that may enhance safety, the delivery of stated decommissioning objectives and value for money for taxpayers; and whether they will keep the case for such external input under regular public review.[HL2377] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Baroness Verma) (Con): The Nuclear Decommissioning Authority continues to monitor performance closely and remains focused on achieving its goal of safe, effective, value for money decommissioning at Sellafield. If expertise is not available within Sellafield Ltd (the Site Licence holder) or one of the Parent Body Organisations (via reach back arrangements), external expertise is sourced from the supply chain. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA108 Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands Questions Asked by Lord Campbell-Savours To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made in the territorial dispute between Japan and China over the sovereignty of the Senkaku (or Diaoyu) Islands.[HL2430] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): The UK does not take a position on these issues, other than to urge for a peaceful resolution in line with international maritime law. The respective governments of the parties involved understand this position. Asked by Lord Campbell-Savours To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the British Embassy in Osaka is monitoring daily reports on the dispute over the Senkaku (or Diaoyu) Islands; and what assessment they have made of such reports.[HL2433] Baroness Warsi: The British Consulate-General in Osaka deals with trade and investment, science and innovation, and consular issues. The British Embassy in Tokyo does monitor such reports. It seems clear that tensions around the islands, which flared in October last year, have yet to be resolved to any of the claimant parties’ satisfaction. We continue to urge a peaceful resolution, in line with international maritime law. Sudan Questions Asked by Lord Avebury To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps, if any, they will propose should be taken by the United Nations Security Council to monitor effectively the prohibition of all offensive military flights over Darfur as provided by United Nations Security Council Resolution 1591.[HL2340] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): Monitoring and enforcement of United Nations Security Council resolution 1591 is the responsibility of the Council’s Sanctions Committee on Sudan, assisted by its Panel of Experts. We are active members of the committee, and meet regularly with the Panel of Experts and support their work to ensure that they are able to monitor implementation of the resolution as far as possible. The Panel undertakes investigations in Darfur, and gathers information from UN and other sources to determine whether violations of the sanctions have taken place. While it is unable to document every instance of an offensive overflight, the Panel’s reports present their best assessment of the overall level of such activity in Darfur. Asked by Lord Avebury To ask Her Majesty’s Government what information they have concerning the acquisition of Sukhoi Su-25 ground attack aircraft and MI-24 ground 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA109 attack helicopters by the government of Sudan; and what information they have about the use of those aircraft against civilian targets.[HL2341] Baroness Warsi: We have seen media reports suggesting the acquisition of these aircraft. The UN Panel of Experts mandate includes investigating and reporting on the supply of weapon systems and related material to Darfur. We would expect the Panel’s final report due in January 2014 to assess any acquisition of military hardware in breach of UN sanctions, and we will encourage them to follow up these reports. Asked by Lord Avebury To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have examined the images published by the Satellite Sentinel Project concerning alleged military operations by the government of Sudan; and whether they will raise the content of those images in the United Nations Security Council.[HL2342] Baroness Warsi: We are aware of the reports and imagery published by the Satellite Sentinel Project, including their most recent report of 30 September 2013 suggesting continued violations of the border agreements between Sudan and South Sudan by the militaries of both countries. The UN Security Council regularly discusses compliance by Sudan and South Sudan with agreements on the demilitarisation of the border and other issues, in accordance with UN Security Council resolution 2046. We draw on a wide range of sources to inform UK interventions in the Council’s consultations. Asked by Lord Avebury To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will make enquiries about reports that relatives of victims shot dead by security forces at recent demonstrations in Sudan were forced to sign death certificates falsely stating that the death was due to natural causes.[HL2448] Baroness Warsi: We are aware of these reports from online media but have no direct evidence to substantiate these claims. We have made clear our concerns to the Government of Sudan, and stressed that there should be a full independent investigation into the demonstrations that occurred in Sudan at the end of September. As the Minister for Africa, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Mr Simmonds), made clear in his statement of 30 September, we are shocked and saddened by the reports of the Sudanese authorities' use of excessive force. Asked by Lord Avebury To ask Her Majesty’s Government what information they have received about recent closures of newspapers, interruptions of internet services and arrests of journalists in Sudan.[HL2449] Baroness Warsi: As the Minister for Africa, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Mr Simmonds), made clear in his statement of 30 September, we are deeply concerned at the detention of journalists, the censoring of media content and 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA110 the suspension of internet services following the demonstrations in Sudan at the end of September. We continue at every appropriate opportunity to encourage the Government of Sudan to respect the right to freedom of expression. Asked by Lord Avebury To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of reports that senior members of the Sudan regime have been moving their families and money out of the country.[HL2450] Baroness Warsi: We are aware of reports to this effect in the media, but have seen no independent evidence to substantiate these. Asked by Lord Avebury To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effect of the change in the dollar value of the Sudanese pound on the open market since the start of 2013 on the Sudan regime’s ability to continue military operations against their own civilian populations and those in the border areas of South Sudan.[HL2451] Baroness Warsi: The fall in the value of the Sudanese Pound is one of a number of factors that is contributing to Sudan’s economic difficulties, which have seen a decline in government revenues and increased prices for ordinary Sudanese people. It is deeply regrettable that in these circumstances the Sudanese government has chosen to maintain or increase its spending on security forces, pursuing military campaigns in Darfur, Southern Kordofan and Blue Nile, rather than making a serious commitment to a negotiated, peaceful solution of these conflicts. Syria Question Asked by Lord Empey To ask Her Majesty’s Government what items of non-lethal equipment they are currently supplying to rebel groups in Syria.[HL2457] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): We are currently supplying various items of non-lethal equipment to the political, military and humanitarian wings of the National Coalition of Syrian Revolution and Opposition Forces - the organisation that the UK and over 100 other countries recognise as the sole legitimate representatives of the Syrian people. This equipment comprises: a range of civilian vehicles, including trucks, pick-ups and forklifts; forensic evidence collection kits; generators; solar powered batteries; radios; cameras; water purification kits; civil resilience kits; office equipment, including laptops and printers; and chemical weapons protective equipment, namely 5,000 escape hoods, chemical detector paper and nerve agent pre-treatment tablets sufficient to treat up to 5,000 people for 6 months. 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA111 Torture Survivors Question Asked by Baroness Lister of Burtersett To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the report The Poverty Barrier: The Right to Rehabilitation for Survivors of Torture in the UK published in July by Freedom from Torture.[HL2404] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con): The Government notes the recommendations in this report and in particular will take them into account when considering any future changes to asylum support arrangements, including the provisions for vulnerable groups such as torture survivors. The Government published the findings of its review of asylum support rates in a Written Ministerial Statement on six June 2013, Official Report, column 119VVS and has no immediate plans to review them again or to respond formally to this report. Turkey and Armenia Question Asked by Lord Hylton To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will make representations to the governments of Turkey and Armenia about reopening their common frontier.[HL2515] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): The UK supported the 2009 Turkey/Armenia Protocols on the Development of Relations and Establishment of Diplomatic Relations, and continues to encourage their ratification without preconditions. We have called on the Governments of both Turkey and Armenia to work together to take forward the normalisation process including the re-opening of their common border, for the benefit of both countries and the wider region, and will continue to do so. The UK has also engaged with both Turkey and Armenia about the need to promote reconciliation between the peoples and Governments of both countries. The EU’s Instrument for Stability programme is supporting efforts to normalise relations between Armenia and Turkey. United Nations Question Asked by The Lord Bishop of Derby To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the United Nations 17 Oct 2013 : Column WA112 to ensure sufficient funding to support a paid, full-time Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Religion or Belief, with a fully functioning office.[HL2338] The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): I refer the noble and right reverend Lord to the answer given by the Minister for Europe, my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington), on 3 July 2013, Official Report, column 662W. Visas Question Asked by Lord Ouseley To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many complaints they have received about the complexity of the United Kingdom's visa application procedures; and whether there are any plans to simplify the visa system.[HL2413] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con): We are not able to provide a figure for complaints received about the complexity of the visa system as we do not categorise complaint data in this way. We operate a highly effective visa system for all categories and continue to review and develop our services to improve customer choice and convenience. To ensure that the visa system is accessible we have expanded and improved the network of visa application centres—there are now over 170 around the world and 12 in each of India and China alone (compared to three or four on offer from most other countries). During the first half of 2013 we received nearly 1.5 million overseas visa applications, 10% more than in the same period last year. Visitor numbers were up 17% on the same period in 2012. We have simplified the process by introducing online applications and booking systems, with 95% of applications now submitted online. We continue to improve the online process to make it more intuitive and user friendly and have provided translated ‘how to apply' website information on the web pages for 12 countries. For customers who would like a faster service we offer 3-5 day priority visa services in over 60 countries (including Bahrain, Brazil, China, India, Kuwait, Oman, UAE) and we are expanding this further. In India, we have introduced the super priority visa service which allows regular visitors and business visitors to get their visa processed in just 24 hours. _______________________________________________________________ Back to Table of Contents Home Page Footer links * A-Z index * Glossary * Contact us * Freedom of Information * Jobs * Using this website * Copyright Parliament UK * Accessibility * Cookies * Email alerts * RSS feeds * Contact us Site search Site search 1. Search ____________________ Search Primary navigation * Home * Parliamentary business * MPs, Lords & offices * About Parliament * Get involved * Visiting * Education * House of Commons * House of Lords * What's on * Bills & legislation * Committees * Publications & records * Parliament TV * News * Topics You are here: Parliament home page > Parliamentary business > Publications and Records > Hansard > Commons Debates > Daily Hansard - Debate Previous Section Index Home Page _______________________________________________________________ 11 Jun 2012 : Column 43 Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): Any western intervention, such as arming the rebels, would make the disasters of Afghanistan and Iraq look like a picnic. The Alawites were a savagely persecuted minority until the French started empowering them; there are only 10 Alawites on the Syrian National Council, which numbers more than 300; and Christians are hugely unrepresented. Instead of constantly criticising the Russians, can we not appreciate that they have a sophisticated understanding of the country, and that we have to work with them to reach a peaceful solution which empowers the minorities? Mr Hague: I hope that the Russians and all of us have a sophisticated understanding of the country, but that sophisticated understanding, when brought up to date, suggests that we are on the edge of a catastrophe for all those people unless we muster the international unity to ensure that the Annan plan, and the road map that arises from it, is put into practice. My hon. Friend is entirely right to worry about those things, and I have stressed in my meetings with opposition groups from Syria that not only must they come together but that they need the broadest possible representation of all groups in Syria and to increase the representation of Christians, Kurds and Alawites, working with, and in leading roles in, the opposition movement. Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): On a day when Homs is yet again being pounded into the ground, it is very difficult to stand back and watch. I commend the Foreign Secretary for the considerable efforts that he has made so far, but how long can we wait? What does the UN doctrine on the responsibility to protect actually mean in practice? At the moment it does not seem to mean very much; it seems to be a menu from which people pick and mix as they choose. But they are all signed up to it, and once again this calls into question the composition of the UN Security Council. My preferred option is safe havens: it worked for the Kurds; it can work for the Syrians. I realise that it also requires some kind of military intervention, but putting that in place is absolutely essential. Mr Hague: It is sadly true that nations have signed up to commitments and to principles under United Nations charters at various stages, but it is then very difficult to achieve international unity on putting them into practice. Of course, there are so many nations that signed the universal declaration on human rights—long before the doctrine on the responsibility to protect—whose human rights records the right hon. Lady and I would be severely critical of, so a signature to a declaration is never the same as putting it into practice when a crisis comes. I accept that she is in favour of the safe havens idea, and although I think that there are the constraints I mentioned earlier, I also stress that, given the nature of the situation and the fact that we do not how it will develop over the coming months, unless we can get a peaceful transition going in Syria we are not taking that option off the table, either. Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): To what extent do the Government believe that the possession in Syria of major Russian technical intelligence-gathering facilities is a factor in Russia’s determination not to see President Assad fall from power? 11 Jun 2012 : Column 44 Mr Hague: Russia has a range of defence and, one has to assume, intelligence interests in Syria, and they will all be factors in Russia’s alliance with the Assad regime and in the way Russia has acted over the past year to protect the regime. It is hard to rank those things, but they will all be factors. However, Russia’s important interests in Syria should also now be factors in Russia using all possible leverage to bring about a peaceful transition in Syria, rather than a continuation of the current situation, which could bring about the collapse of the country and, indeed, a very clear danger to all those same Russian interests. Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Is the Foreign Secretary worried that a failure to agree on an international conference in, for example, the context of the Mexico meetings could be used as a top-up for the diplomatic “excusory” that we have already had from Russia? In the event of a failure to agree on such a conference, what quick, visible and credible alternative does he envisage? Mr Hague: Of course it is possible that if we cannot agree the terms of an international conference, some commentators or other nations will say, “Well done; we tried, but we weren’t able to go forward that way.” However, it is important for us to try to ensure that such an international conference would actually achieve something. Also, we do not want an international conference that simply allows the regime to play for time. It is therefore necessary for us to negotiate on the terms of such a conference, even though that means that there is some risk of its not being able to take place. If we do not succeed in bringing about such a conference, then our recourse will be to the United Nations Security Council. I mentioned in my statement that we are already working on elements of a draft resolution that would greatly strengthen the previous resolutions. That would return us to the same problem of winning Russian and Chinese co-operation, but it would return the matter to that forum. Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): I certainly welcome the Foreign Secretary’s robust approach in connection with arms sales to Syria, notably from Russia, but what assessment has he made and can he give to the House on the likelihood of a change of mood from the Russian Government? Mr Hague: As I mentioned, there have been changes of emphasis—one can call them changes of language—from Russia over the past couple of weeks. Russia does support the Annan plan, and Russia voted for UN resolutions 2042 and 2043, so we are agreed on the desirability of the Annan plan. What we are talking about is the insistence on its implementation, which I argue to Moscow, as have others, puts a particular responsibility on Russia because of its links with the Assad regime and the leverage that it has over it. As I indicated earlier, there have been some changes. I think there is increased anxiety in Russia about the situation, and I will be discussing this further with the Russians during the course of this week. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): Obviously we all condemn the human rights abuses, wherever they are occurring, all over Syria. Will the Foreign Secretary 11 Jun 2012 : Column 45 be more specific about which opposition groups the UK Government are supporting either financially or with logistical equipment or training, and about whether there are any British arms or British special forces in the area, which can only exacerbate what is already a very serious set of divisions within the opposition in Syria? Mr Hague: The groups outside Syria that we are supporting—the kind of groups that I have been meeting in Istanbul—include the Syrian National Council, which is the largest of these groups, although some of the minority ethnic communities are not yet affiliated to it, and we want them to come together. All our support is non-lethal. Our assistance takes the form that I described in my statement—communications equipment, training, and human rights monitoring. No armed intervention is being practised or sanctioned by the United Kingdom at the moment. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): After meeting Chancellor Merkel recently, Russia’s President Putin sought to claim impartiality, reportedly saying, “We are not for Assad and neither for his opponents.” If this were really so, does the Foreign Secretary consider that future Russian support for a Security Council resolution referring the situation in Syria to the International Criminal Court could help to deter future atrocities in that country? Mr Hague: Certainly that is something that we have wanted to get going, and we have succeeded in doing so in the UN Human Rights Council resolution, which refers to the International Criminal Court. Such are the atrocities and the appalling nature of these crimes that if we could muster the votes to take that through the Security Council itself, we would do so. I hope that at some stage in the future we will be able to do so, and that we will be able to take the Russian leaders at their word on this, but what they have said recently about not being committed to Assad himself or to the Assad regime has not yet translated into a readiness to support such resolutions. Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): I welcome the Secretary of State’s strong urging of the Russians to halt their arms sales to the Syrian regime, but does he agree that we ourselves should cease to have any dealings with the foreign arms companies that are providing weapons to the Syrian Government, such as the Russian state-owned company Rosoboronexport? If so, will he use his influence to help to prevent that company from fulfilling its plans to take part in a trade exhibition that will be part of the Farnborough air show next month in the UK? Mr Hague: I will certainly look at the point that the hon. Lady has raised and discuss it with my colleagues at the Ministry of Defence. I am not sure that we can do much in our relations with that company that would make a difference to this situation, but I will look at her point. Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that the time that could be spent in negotiating the terms of reference for an international conference is time that the international community can ill afford to waste, bearing in mind the 11 Jun 2012 : Column 46 continuing loss of life? Does he agree that Russia would be better advised enthusiastically to support the enforcement of the objectives of the Annan plan? Mr Hague: Yes, I very much agree with that. In the absence of the implementation of the Annan plan, the absence of a sufficiently strong insistence on its implementation and the absence of the implementation of all the UN resolutions that we have promoted, the virtue of a conference is that it could be the forum in which insistence on the Annan plan or something like it is made by Russia as well as by all the other countries that would be involved. Every day and every week that has gone by has contributed to the huge death toll of perhaps 15,000 people. Every day that goes by adds to that death toll. We are pursuing this option in the absence of the other options, which have so far not worked. Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s confidence in the Syrian opposition groups, with the £1.5 million of funding, but let me press him a little on his previous answers. What steps has he taken to reassure himself that those groups are willing to work alongside each other to find a solution in Syria? What reassurance does he have that they are representative of communities in Syria and, perhaps most importantly, that they are supportive of the terms of the Annan plan? Would achieving all those things not be the best way to get Russia involved? Mr Hague: I can give the hon. Gentleman a fair degree of confidence about those things. Certainly in what they say, the groups are committed to a Syria with respect for minorities and with democracy, as I said in my statement. They are supportive of a peaceful solution. It is difficult, however, to assess how representative they would be in a free election in Syria, since there has been no such election. I hope we will discover that in the future. The groups are not sufficiently united. I have spoken to them clearly and bluntly about the need to be united. When any country faces an existential crisis, the people who believe in its freedom and territorial integrity should stand together, as we have always done in this country. Syria is certainly in an existential crisis, so I have put that point to the groups strongly. They need to remedy that without delay. David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): Given the scale of the atrocities, will my right hon. Friend tell the House what steps are being taken to ensure that all relevant intelligence is being shared between the parties and nations that are opposed to the Assad regime to enable the best possible international response should the situation escalate in the days and weeks ahead? Mr Hague: We are in close touch on a daily basis with all our key partners and allies on this matter, including the United States, leading European nations and leading Arab nations. That is why I went back to Istanbul last Wednesday to meet Secretary Clinton and the Foreign Ministers of 13 other nations from the region and from Europe, including the Foreign Ministers of France, Germany and Italy. We share information all the time. What I have said to the House today could have been said, and probably is being said, by the great majority of 11 Jun 2012 : Column 47 those Ministers in their Parliaments, because we have a common understanding of the situation and of the way forward, which I have described. Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): The Assad regime is a brutal, wicked and barbaric dictatorship that is savagely oppressing its people. May I take this opportunity to applaud the Secretary of State and his Department for the work he is doing on the international stage to assist the Syrian people? I appreciate that the Foreign Office has, over several months, repeatedly warned any UK citizens who might still be in Syria to leave that country, but I understand that there may be some UK citizens still there—in particular, those who may have dual nationality. If that is the case, are there any contingency plans for any British citizens who might still be in Syria? Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is right: it is many months now since we warned all British nationals to leave Syria. We have made that clear for a long time, and I reiterated it when we ceased to be able to operate an embassy safely. We have what is called a protecting power arrangement—that is, an arrangement with another country that looks after our interests, which in this case is Hungary, as it still operates an embassy there. We are grateful to the Hungarians for that assistance. They are able to give assistance, if appropriate and possible, to British nationals. However, I repeat that British nationals should not be in that situation. They should have left Syria long ago, and if there are any remaining, they should leave now. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 48 Family Migration 4.55 pm The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May): With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on family migration. The Government are committed to reviewing all the main routes for immigration to the UK as part of our programme to reform the immigration system. As a result, we anticipate that net migration will fall from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands. We have already announced major changes to the immigration rules by introducing a cap on work visas and reforming student visas to cut out widespread abuse. We now turn to reform of the family route. In 2010, family immigration accounted for approximately 18% of all non-EU immigration to the UK—around 54,000 people out of 300,000. However, like the rest of the immigration system, family immigration has not been regulated effectively for many years. Sham marriages have been widespread, people have been allowed to settle in Britain without being able to speak English, and there have not been rules in place to stop migrants becoming a burden on the taxpayer. We are changing all that. The UK needs a system for family migration that is underpinned by three simple principles: first, that those who come here should do so on the basis of a genuine relationship; secondly, that migrants should be able to pay their way; and thirdly, that they are able to integrate into British society. If people do not meet those requirements, they should not be allowed to come here. In July last year, the Government published a consultation on precisely how such a family migration system can be developed. Today I am setting out the new measures that we are introducing, and will shortly lay before Parliament the necessary changes to the immigration rules, to come into effect on 9 July. I shall place in the Library copies of the detailed statement of intent, together with a summary of the responses to the consultation. When I lay the changes to the rules, I will also publish the impact assessments of the new measures. For too long we have had an immigration system that could be easily exploited by sham relationships. We are stepping up our enforcement activity, but it is important that policy reflects the seriousness of the problem as well. We will therefore increase the minimum probationary period for new spouses and partners from two years to five years. We will also publish new guidance to help caseworkers identify sham marriages. For too long we have had an immigration system that did not take into account whether people coming here could pay their way. The Government’s reforms will mean that anyone who wishes to bring a foreign spouse or partner, or dependants to Britain will have to be able to support them financially. They must not become a burden on the taxpayer. Following advice from the Migration Advisory Committee, we will set a minimum income threshold of £18,600 for sponsoring a partner to settle in the UK. This is the level at which a sponsor can generally support themselves and a partner without accessing income-related benefits. Children involve additional costs for the state. To reflect this, there will be a higher threshold for each child sponsored: a £22,400 threshold for a partner with one child, with an additional £2,400 for each further child. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 49 It has also been too easy for elderly dependent relatives to join their migrant children here and then potentially become a burden on the taxpayer. Therefore, if someone wants to sponsor a dependent relative to come to Britain who requires personal care, they will have to show, first, that they cannot organise care in the relative’s home country and, secondly, that they can look after the relative without recourse to public funds. We will also limit to close family the people who are able to access that route: parents, grandparents, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters. Aunts and uncles will no longer be eligible to come here through the family route. Future applications will also have to be made from overseas, not while the applicant is here as a visitor. For too long, people have been allowed to settle in Britain without being able to speak English well enough and without having a proper appreciation of our values. So, from October 2013, all those who wish to live here will need to demonstrate that they are able to participate fully in British life. All applicants for settlement will need to pass the “Life in the UK” test and, because a person cannot integrate if they cannot communicate, we are strengthening the language requirement by introducing a separate English language test at intermediate level. The family migration system will work best if it is able to operate efficiently. That means simplifying processes and removing unnecessary waste. The cost of administering appeals against family visit visa refusals is around £29 million a year. No other category of visit visa attracts a full right of appeal. So the Crime and Courts Bill will remove the full right of appeal for family visitors, bringing the process in line with the rest of the immigration system. In the meantime, we will lay new regulations to restrict the full appeal right to those applying to visit a close family member who has settled, refugee or humanitarian protection status in the UK. In developing all the measures that I have outlined, the Government have had article 8 of the European convention on human rights—the right to respect for private and family life—very much in mind. But, as the convention itself makes clear, article 8 is not an absolute right. The convention allows the state to interfere in the exercise of article 8 rights when it is in the public interest to do so, and when the interference is proportionate to the public interest being pursued. In an immigration context, it allows necessary and proportionate interference on public safety grounds, or to protect the UK’s economic well-being. Article 8 is clearly a qualified right, but Parliament has never set out how it should be qualified in practice. So, for too long, the courts have been left to decide cases under article 8 without the view of Parliament, and to develop public policy through case law. It is time to fill the vacuum and put the law back on the side of the British public, so we are changing the immigration rules to establish that if someone is a serious criminal, and if they have not behaved according to the standards that we expect in this country, claiming a right to a family life will not get in the way of their deportation. If a foreign criminal has received a custodial sentence of 12 months or more, deportation will normally be proportionate. Even if a criminal has received a shorter sentence, deportation will still normally be proportionate if their offending has caused serious harm or if they are a persistent offender who shows particular disregard for 11 Jun 2012 : Column 50 the law. For the most serious foreign criminals—those sentenced to four or more years in prison—article 8 rights will prevent deportation only in the most exceptional of circumstances. I will shortly ask the House to approve a motion recognising the qualified nature of article 8 and agreeing that the new immigration rules should form the basis of whether someone can come to or stay in this country on the basis of their family life. For the first time, the courts will have a clear framework within which to operate, and one that is on the side of the public, not foreign criminals. I commend this statement to the House. 5.2 pm Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab): I thank the Home Secretary for giving us early sight of her statement on family migration, article 8 and foreign criminals. I thank her for giving us early sight of it in The Sunday Times and on “The Andrew Marr Show” as well. I shall respond first to the Home Secretary’s points about article 8. Foreign citizens who come to Britain should abide by our rules. The Government should be able to deport people who break the law and, as she will know, the number of foreign criminals being deported trebled in the last five years of the Labour Government. However, there continue to be cases in which it is difficult to understand why the courts have allowed the foreign criminals involved to stay in Britain. We therefore agree with the Home Secretary that action is needed. Article 8 of the European convention on human rights is a qualified right, and the right to respect for family life should be balanced against other issues, including public safety, economic well-being and preventing disorder or crime. Parliament is therefore entitled to set out how those rights should be balanced against those considerations when dealing with foreign criminals, and to provide a framework within which the courts should operate. We should discuss those details, but the way in which Parliament provides that framework must be legally effective. I am puzzled by the Home Secretary’s decision to use a motion in Parliament that will obviously not change the law or override case law in the way that primary legislation would. Surely that approach will risk creating confusion and legal uncertainty. Would it not be better for her to do this properly, through primary legislation, instead? If that were to happen, we would happily hold discussions with the Government to work on getting that right. On the measures on family migration, when people travel and trade across borders more than they ever did before, there needs to be a fair framework for those who fall in love and build family relationships across borders, too. We agree that stronger safeguards are needed for the taxpayer on family migration. If people want to make this country their home, they should contribute and not be a burden on public funds, but it is not clear that the best way to protect the taxpayer is to focus solely on the sponsor’s salary. For example, in the current economic climate, someone on £40,000 today could lose their job next month, and then, of course, there is no way to protect the taxpayer. The system does not take account of the foreign partner’s income, which might have a differential impact on women. Will the Home Secretary explain why the Government ruled out 11 Jun 2012 : Column 51 consulting on a bond that could have been used to protect the taxpayer if someone needed public funds later on? There is also a wider problem about the gap between the Government’s rhetoric and reality. The Home Secretary admitted yesterday that these changes to the family visa will not mean “big numbers”, yet she said again today that she anticipates meeting her net migration target of tens of thousands, even though the latest figures show net migration still at around 250,000. Will she tell us when she expects to meet that target? Does she still think it will be met by the end of this Parliament, in line with the Prime Minister’s promise—“No ifs. No buts.”—that it would be met or are she and the Prime Minister making promises that they have no intention of keeping? There is also a gap between rhetoric and reality on deporting foreign criminals. The number of foreign criminals deported increased every year until the election, but since then it has fallen, year on year. It fell by 18% in the last financial year alone, as nearly 1,000 fewer foreign criminals were deported in 2011-12 compared with the previous year. According to Home Office briefings to the newspapers, the Home Secretary’s measures on article 8 will apply to 185 foreign criminals. Even if every single one of those article 8 cases had been deported, the Government would still have deported hundreds fewer foreign criminals last year compared with the year before, and we would still have more foreign criminals in the community instead. The truth is that this announcement does not deal with the growing problem under the Home Secretary’s Government. Too many foreign criminals are staying in Britain—not because of article 8, but, in the words of a borders inspector, because of “difficulty in obtaining travel documentation” resulting from the Border Agency’s weaknesses in enforcement and administration. This is another example of problems that have got worse for the Border Agency in the last two years. We will work with the Home Secretary to get the detail right and on some of the sensible points she has made, but statements and parliamentary motions are not enough; she also needs to take action on the practical problems that have got worse on her watch. Mrs May: I thank the shadow Home Secretary for supporting the action the Government are taking in some areas, and I hope she will be able to carry that support through when the motion comes before Parliament, because a strong voice from this Parliament on article 8 and the rules on family migration will be all the more effective in relation to the courts. The right hon. Lady asked why we have chosen to work through a motion in Parliament and immigration rules. We will change the immigration rules, and this Parliament will have an opportunity to make its voice heard and to give its clear view on where it feels the framework should sit in respect of article 8. I have every expectation that that will have an impact on how article 8 is interpreted in the courts. The right hon. Lady asked why we had gone down the route of the income threshold. We asked the independent Migration Advisory Committee to advise us on what we 11 Jun 2012 : Column 52 should do and on what income level we should adopt. It gave us a range of income levels from £18,600 up to a higher point, and we chose to adopt the lower point, adding in elements for individual children, rather than go down a route that would be available only to those people who had capital and were able to put up a bond in the first place. Changes in the numbers were also raised. The right hon. Lady was right to refer to the net migration figure shown in the last published set of statistics from the Office for National Statistics, which includes migration numbers up to September 2011. What she may have failed to look at, however, are the figures for student visas thereafter, as we have seen a significant decrease in the number allocated through to March 2012. [Interruption.] The shadow Immigration Minister, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), says “That is good”, as though getting rid of abuse in the student visa system were not good. I am not surprised, because for too many years Labour allowed too many people to come to this country claiming to be students when they were not students. We are getting on with dealing with that. The right hon. Lady talked about the need to deal with deportation. We are increasing the enforcement action that is being taken. All Governments have experienced problems in regard to the acceptance of an individual as being from the country concerned and the granting of the recognised travel documents on that basis, but the right hon. Lady’s claim that this Government are somehow failing in relation to immigration sits ill with the record of her Government over too many years. Her Government failed to control immigration; this Government are controlling immigration. Her Government failed to end the abuse of student visas; this Government are ending the abuse of student visas. Her Government failed to deal with article 8; this Government are dealing with article 8. Several hon. Members rose— Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. I remind the House that in order to ask a question about the statement, a Member must have been in the Chamber to listen to it. Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): I welcome the series of impressive and, dare I say, Conservative measures that the Home Secretary has announced. Given that thresholds are higher when children are involved, is there not a risk that people entering the country in order to marry will quickly have a number of children, and may therefore need state support although they are above the original threshold? Mrs May: I understand my hon. Friend’s point, but I think that it would be highly unreasonable for the Government to tell people that they could enter the country but could not have any children. When people first enter the country, they will be able to stay for a limited period, and will then have to undergo a renewal process to establish whether they meet the requirements at all stages before they achieve settlement. Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): While, like my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper), I do not recognise the 11 Jun 2012 : Column 53 parody of the last Administration’s immigration policy, I none the less welcome the decision about guidance on article 8. Young Amy Houston, aged nine, was killed in my constituency by a hit-and-run failed asylum seeker who subsequently invented a family life. Despite the very best efforts of the Home Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) and me to pursue appeals, the appeal decisions were, I believe, incomprehensible to most people, and that family have been left bereft. May I ask the Home Secretary two consequential questions? First, if it transpires that the changes in the immigration rules and the resolution in the House do not work as intended, will she introduce primary legislation? Secondly, will she look at the current practice whereby the courts keep their judgments confidential in cases such as that of Mohammed Ibrahim? It was very difficult even for me, as Justice Secretary and the bereaved father’s Member of Parliament, to get hold of the judgment of that immigration court. Whatever the arguments may be for confidentiality on asylum applications, there can, or should, be no confidentiality in cases such as this. Mrs May: The right hon. Gentleman has made an extremely important point. As he will have noticed, the current Justice Secretary is in the Chamber and will have heard what he has said. I am sure that we can consider the right hon. Gentleman’s point about the confidentiality of judgments. The right hon. Gentleman referred to the terrible case involving the actions of Mohammed Ibrahim. Obviously, Paul Houston has been campaigning for changes for some time, and we expect the changes that we are introducing to deal with such cases. The House of Lords in 2007, and the Court of Appeal in more recent cases last year and this year, have made clear the need for a statement from Parliament about where the public interest lies. The right hon. Gentleman is right, and I am grateful for his support. Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): I urge the Home Secretary to take the advice that if, peradventure, a motion is not sufficient, this House will be very happy to legislate to deal with the foreign prisoner problem, and will she also explore with the Justice Secretary whether there are more foreign criminals in our jails who could serve their term elsewhere, and not at our expense? Mrs May: I thank my right hon. Friend for those questions, and they serve to remind me that I did not answer the point made by the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) about the next steps we might take if what we are doing does not lead to a change in the sorts of decisions coming from the courts. If that is the case, we will, indeed, look at further measures, and they could, of course, include primary legislation. I can assure my right hon. Friend that both the Justice Secretary and I have an interest in trying to ensure that as many foreign national prisoners as possible are removed from this country, including being removed to serve their sentence elsewhere. Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I support what the Government are doing on article 8, which is in keeping with the Select Committee’s recommendations on the 11 Jun 2012 : Column 54 removal of foreign national prisoners, but I profoundly disagree with the Home Secretary’s proposals on spousal visas. The effect of that change will be directed against the British Asian community—not against illegal immigrants, but against settled Britons who are here, pay their taxes and contribute to this country. I do not believe that the British Home Secretary should be determining who the spouse of a British citizen should be based on an arbitrary limit—on an arbitrary financial limit. I urge the Secretary of State to look again at these proposals. She should look at the limits and see how this would affect a city like Leicester. Mrs May: What I think is absolutely right is that the British Government should say that if somebody is bringing somebody in here to be their spouse or partner, they should be able to support that individual and the family life they are going to have. That is important, and that is what the Government are saying. The right hon. Gentleman talks about the income threshold being arbitrary, but it is not arbitrary. The Migration Advisory Committee looked at various levels of income and this was the level it said was the point at which people could generally support themselves without having to be reliant on income-related benefits. It suggested a higher level to us as well, but we chose this level. I think it is right that people should be able to support the individual they are bringing in to be their partner or spouse. Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con): I welcome the fact that an English language requirement has been introduced for foreign spouses coming to the UK. What further measures will be put in place to ensure that those coming here legally can be properly integrated into our communities? Mrs May: My hon. Friend raises an important point. This is not just about numbers; it is also about ensuring that people are able to integrate and participate fully in British society, and speaking the English language is an important part of that. That is why from next year we will raise the required level to intermediate level. We will also require people to take the “Life in the UK” test, to ensure that they have an understanding of life here in the UK, because we want the people who come here to be able to participate fully in British life, and to contribute fully to it, as I am sure they want to do. Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): I welcome the Home Secretary’s statement, as I have also welcomed her earlier, allied statements on this theme. The polls show that voters of all parties are concerned that our population is growing primarily because of immigration. When all her policies are in place, what impact will they have on that projected growth? Mrs May: As I have made clear on several occasions, we are putting in place a number of policies that we anticipate will lead to reducing net migration to the tens of thousands. I have never been somebody who says I expect the population of the UK to be a certain figure by a certain period of time, but I think it is right that, by taking these actions, the Government will be reducing net migration, and that will have an impact on the matter the right hon. Gentleman raises. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 55 Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): I commend the Home Secretary on this move. Does she agree that some of the judgments by judges hearing cases relevant to this issue have, frankly, been embarrassing and infuriating? Judges must be encouraged to consider the public interest first and foremost. If they are not inclined to consider the public interest first, with this House having passed a motion on the matter, primary legislation must be given a high priority. Mrs May: As I indicated in a previous response, on a number of occasions the judiciary has, in effect, said to Parliament, “You need to set out what is the public interest and where the balance of public interest lies.” That is why I expect that what we are doing in the immigration rules and the debate in Parliament will help judges in saying, “This is where Parliament believes the balance should be between the public interest and the individual’s rights.” Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): What discussions did the Secretary of State have with the Scottish Government about the proposals? Why was she not open to the suggestion of variance in the minimum income threshold, to match the variance of income across the United Kingdom? We in Scotland do not share her little conservative view of immigration; we prefer to do things a bit differently. Does she not think it is now time that we had our own powers over immigration, so that we can match our community needs in Scotland? Mrs May: A regional variation in the income threshold was looked at by the Migration Advisory Committee and rejected by that committee for a number of reasons. The committee looked at income versus public sector costs in regions and the purely practical point that if we had regional variation, the result could very well be someone initially going to live in a region where the threshold was lower, in order to get into the country, and then moving within the country. Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): The coalition Government must be firm but fair on immigration, so I welcome the income threshold that was eventually agreed. What flexibility or discretion will be available for those who, for example, might not be able to pass the intermediate language test—perhaps for medical reasons—or who, for exceptional reasons, might have to apply for family reunion while they are in the UK? Mrs May: Obviously we are conscious that some people will find it difficult to deal with the income threshold—perhaps a sponsor here who is disabled and may not have the same expectations of income as others—so there will be some ability to be flexible on that. The English language test is an important part of the scheme we are putting in place. I acknowledge what my right hon. Friend says about people who, for a medical reason, may have difficulty with that, but overall I think it is right that we have the test in the scheme. Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): I was contacted by a constituent this morning. He is engaged and he earns £16,000 a year. He says: 11 Jun 2012 : Column 56 “I have never relied on the state…I would like to live a happy life with my wife in my country of birth, why should the amount I earn be a reason not…to”? How does the Secretary of State answer my constituent? Mrs May: I say to the right hon. Gentleman what I have said previously. When someone wants to bring a partner or spouse to the UK, it is right that we have an expectation that they will be able to do so without relying on benefits. The income threshold set by the Migration Advisory Committee is the level at which people are generally able to support themselves and a dependant, which is the circumstance that pertains when someone brings in a spouse or partner. The figure has not been plucked out of the air by this Government. The Migration Advisory Committee looked at it very carefully and this is the threshold that it proposed. Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): Some years ago, a prominent immigration lawyer told me that the two main drivers of immigration are, first, the perception—right or wrong—that we have an overtly generous welfare system in the UK; and secondly, lax human rights legislation. Does my right hon. Friend agree that in this statement and through our welfare reforms, we are tackling those issues head-on? The shadow Home Secretary talked about a bond. Does my right hon. Friend not find that ironic and perhaps politically opportunistic, given that, when in power, Labour considered such a measure but chose to put it to one side, but in opposition they sing a different tune? Mrs May: My hon. Friend makes an important point, and he is absolutely right: when people look at which country to move to, there are issues to do with their perception of the laxity or otherwise of the regimes operating in that country. What we are doing today on the immigration rules and article 8, our measures on all the other aspects of immigration, and the welfare reform we are putting through, will have an impact. As for the bond, not only is it ironic that that is something that the previous Government looked at, but of course it would make it even harder for the people to whom the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee and the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) referred. Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): It is not unusual for individuals to have been brought to this country as small children by their parents from former British colonies and then to have lived for 40, 50 or, as in one instance in my constituency, 60 years in this country under the misapprehension that they had automatic British citizenship. If one of these individuals—someone who has lived all their life in this country, been educated here, created a family here and, as in many instances, created businesses here—commits a crime and has to serve a prison term, should they be deemed to be foreign and therefore be deported? Mrs May: I made clear in my statement the thresholds that we believe should pertain in this instance, and that only in exceptional circumstances should somebody who is committed to prison for four years or more, having committed a crime, be able to claim family 11 Jun 2012 : Column 57 rights here in the UK and that deportation is normally proportionate for those who have been imprisoned for 12 months or more. I say to the hon. Lady about the individuals concerned: I am sorry but if they do not want to risk the possibility of being deported as a foreign national offender, they should not commit a crime in the first place. Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Weald) (Con): These proposals will help to tackle the scourge of the sham marriage. What other action is my right hon. Friend taking to address such issues? Mrs May: Sham marriage is a problem and it is right that we should look at it. We are examining some further steps that could be taken to deal with it, such as combining some of the powers of the UK Border Agency and the registrars to ensure that they have greater ability to deal with what they consider to be sham marriages, should they appear. We have also stepped up our enforcement activity. As a member of the Church of England, I am sad to have to say that, as my hon. Friend may have seen, there have been cases where Church of England vicars have been undertaking sham marriages. I think that is appalling, but we have been identifying those cases and taking action. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): May I ask the Home Secretary to think again about the answers she gave to my right hon. Friends the Members for East Ham (Stephen Timms) and for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) on spousal visas and family reunion? When she carries out this impact assessment, will she examine the impact on communities and on families on modest incomes, who have every right to be together as a family? In her impact assessment, will she also give some credibility to the enormous contribution made to the economic success of this country by 60 years of migration to our society and the great benefits given to us? Could she not say something positive about the role of immigrants in our society, rather than always repeating what the Daily Mail says? Mrs May: If the hon. Gentleman were to look back at the speeches and comments I have made on immigration over the past two years, he would see that I frequently say that immigration has been a positive benefit to this country. But what I think is not good for this country is uncontrolled immigration. That is why this Government are bringing some control into our immigration system. We made it clear two years ago that we would look at every aspect of immigration, and we have done so. We continue to look at issues associated with immigration, and it is absolutely right that we set out clearly what we believe are the parameters within which it is right for someone to be able to bring a spouse or partner here to the UK. Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): I congratulate the Secretary of State on making one of the most important announcements of this Session in this House today. It is so important that I am here to ask a question about it instead of watching England against France. [Interruption.] I am doing my bit. There is a distinct lack of public confidence in our immigration system. Is not the best way to tackle that by introducing these sorts of measures, which strengthen public confidence as a result of strong, robust immigration measures? 11 Jun 2012 : Column 58 Mrs May: I thank my hon. Friend for his commitment to this issue, such that he is in the Chamber now. [Interruption.] I have noticed that there have been one or two leavers since the statement started, which may have something to do with what is happening in Ukraine. He is absolutely right to say that the issue of confidence is important, and I think that members of the public will be pleased to see that the Government have taken yet another step to bring some control into our immigration system. Dame Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): Among the two categories of people who come to me most frequently in my constituency are parents seeking to bring often teenage children to this country because the grandparents who are looking after them in Africa have either died or become unwell. Will the right hon. Lady say what the impact of these new measures will be on that kind of family reunion? Am I right in thinking that she has said that very elderly people who may not have had the opportunity to learn English but are dependants of people in this country will have to pass the new intermediate English test? Mrs May: In relation to the right hon. Lady’s first point, we have made it clear that there is an income threshold for people who want to bring a spouse, a partner or a child to the UK. On her second point, which was on dependent relatives, we are tightening up the system, but making it clear that it may be possible to bring in an elderly dependant who requires a degree of care that is not available to them in the country in which they live. In such circumstances, it must be shown that they will not be a burden on the state and that the personal care can be provided by the family. Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): What will be the effect of the package on asylum seekers who come without their spouse or children? In particular, some asylum seekers fail to get asylum but cannot, for one reason or another, be sent back. There are also genuine asylum seekers to whom we are happy to grant asylum. Will they be able to bring their families to join them? Mrs May: Asylum seekers will have the same rights to apply to be here in the UK as they have currently. The package is for those who want to bring non-EU people as spousal partners; it does not affect people who are here genuinely as asylum seekers and who have been given the protection of this country. Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): Before the election, the Home Secretary said compellingly that she wanted to be part of a family-friendly Government, but the proposals put a means test on family life for many people and mean that some parents cannot be in the same country as their children or their spouse. She will be aware that, currently, if a spouse applies for a visit visa, they are automatically refused, because it is said that they should be able to get a settlement visa. She is ending the appeal against the refusal of visit visas, but will she change the arrangements so that, for example, fathers can at least come and be at their children’s graduation ceremonies as a visitor when families cannot afford to settle here together? 11 Jun 2012 : Column 59 Mrs May: The hon. Lady refers to ending family visit visa appeals. It is right that we do that. It is the only immigration route that has a full appeal. It will be quicker for people to put in a separate application for a decision rather than appeal. All too often, appeals cases are lost because further evidence is brought forward when it might have led to a different decision had it been available in the first place. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): Young newlyweds in Britain are often supported financially by their parents. Would it not therefore be appropriate to allow the parents of sponsors to demonstrate such financial commitment by contributing to meeting any income thresholds applied under the new rules? Mrs May: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point. We are giving some allowance within the rules—with qualifications—for individuals’ savings, but we do not think that it is appropriate to include money that somebody just says they can give to the sponsor. The measures are about the sponsor showing that they can support the spousal partner and/or children that they are bringing into the UK. Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Many in my constituency working in both the public and the private sector bring up a family on less than the proposed threshold. What equality impact assessment has the Secretary of State carried out on whether the threshold will have a disproportionate effect on groups such as younger people, British women who want to bring in a foreign husband, or those living in less prosperous regions? Mrs May: The hon. Lady echoes an earlier question about impact assessments. As I said, all the impact assessments will be published when the immigration rules are laid. Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): The Home Secretary’s proposals are very welcome, and my constituents will welcome them. Can she confirm whether the English language test will be held under test conditions, and whether identities will be checked, to avoid cases such as those in which people have had other people take tests for them? Mrs May: We are conscious of the problems that have existed in relation to some tests in the past, which is why we have already tightened up the rules. We will continue to examine the tests to ensure that they genuinely assess whether an individual—and the right individual—fulfils the language requirements that the Government set out. Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): The right hon. Lady may be aware that my constituency has a strong military presence, including overseas servicemen and women. We have a significant number of Fijians serving in the Royal Navy and Royal Marines, for example. What discussions did she have with the Ministry of Defence about the ability of those servicemen, who often sign up for more than 10 years at a time and are obviously on lower incomes, to bring their families here and keep them here? 11 Jun 2012 : Column 60 Mrs May: We have indeed discussed the issue with the Ministry of Defence, and the current rules will continue for the time being for both serving UK personnel and foreign and Commonwealth personnel. We are considering how we can revise what are called the part 7 rules, which relate to foreign and Commonwealth personnel serving in Her Majesty’s forces, and in the coming months we will consider very carefully what arrangement should apply in future. At the moment, transitional arrangements mean that the current situation will pertain for those personnel. Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): I warmly commend the Home Secretary for her statement today. It shows that we can come up with good, strong, Conservative statements and be popular with the British people. Our Liberal friends, take note. May I say to the Home Secretary that the reality must match the rhetoric? We gave a solemn promise at the last general election that we would get immigration down to tens of thousands, and there has been far too little progress. Will she recommit herself today to appointing officials of sufficient quality and in sufficient numbers to achieve that aim? Otherwise, there will be a huge democratic deficit. Mrs May: The figure of tens of thousands continues to be the aim that we are working towards. My hon. Friend is right that, as I indicated in response to the shadow Home Secretary, the figures to September 2011 have still not shown a fall. If he looks at the subsequent student visa figures through to March 2012, however, he will see a significant fall in allocations. That should have an impact on net migration figures in due course. My hon. Friend tempts me down a route that I will not go down, but I make fairly and squarely a point that I should have made in response to an hon. Friend earlier: these proposals have been put forward by the coalition Government. Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): I entirely reinforce the point that my parliamentary neighbour, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), put to the Home Secretary. Even if the threshold has been suggested by the Migration Advisory Committee, surely she must recognise that it is entirely arbitrary and that many people in Leicester and other parts of the country are on earnings of nowhere near £18,000. Does she not recognise that many families who settle in cities such as Leicester make a huge contribution to the economy? What economic modelling has she done of the wider economic implications of these restrictions? Mrs May: A question that starts off by referring to the fact that the figure has been produced by the Migration Advisory Committee cannot, in the same breath, say that it is “entirely arbitrary”. It is not arbitrary. The committee considered very carefully the level at which people can normally support themselves and not depend on income-related benefits, and that is the figure we selected. Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): From the Brighton conference reforms to the changes announced today, does my right hon. Friend agree that 11 Jun 2012 : Column 61 this Government have done more to address the legal misuse of human rights legislation in the past 13 weeks than the previous Government did in 13 years? Mrs May: I can give my hon. Friend a very simple and easy answer to his question, and that is yes. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): What discussions has the Home Secretary had with her colleague the children’s Minister, the Minister of State, Department for Education, the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather), about the implications of the announcement on the best interests of children? Will the Home Secretary assure me that when she publishes the draft regulations and the Government’s impact assessment there will be a full analysis of the implications for compliance with the UN convention on the rights of the child? Mrs May: We have considered that aspect of the proposals’ impact and I can assure the hon. Lady that every relevant Department was involved in considering these issues, including the Department that contains the children’s Minister. Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): I welcome my right hon. Friend’s announcement and believe that her proposals bear comparison with the robust policies pursued by the Labour party in Australia. She will know that notable human rights lawyers such as Geoffrey Robertson QC have already said that in the absence of primary legislation, an indicative motion in this House would not fetter the discretion of or bind the European Court of Human Rights. Is it not therefore right that we should still keep open the option of reviewing our membership of that body, with a possible option of doing what Sweden did and temporarily suspending our membership? Mrs May: I am aware that there are those who have indicated that they think that the courts will not pay the attention that I expect them to pay to the framework set 11 Jun 2012 : Column 62 out by Parliament. We are talking about the decisions that the UK courts will take. On some aspects of the immigration rules—my hon. Friend might not like my saying this—the European Court has taken a tougher view than the courts in the UK. Our intention is that the courts in the UK should now have a clear framework so that they know when and how to operate and how to balance the public interest with individual rights under article 8. Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend agree that it would be beneficial if, as a result of her statement, we sent a clear message to the judiciary that the right to a family life is a qualified right that must be qualified in the public interest? Mrs May: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. The European convention is absolutely clear that the right to a family life is a qualified right. What we are doing today and will do in due course when Parliament has its debate—and, I trust, supports the motion the Government will propose—is saying very clearly to the judiciary, “Here is the framework and the balance you should be striking between the public interest and that of the individual.” Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): I warmly welcome the statement. On the question of sham marriages, is it not conceivable that a forced marriage could fall into that category? What measures does the Home Secretary have to deal with that and what are her thoughts on that subject? Mrs May: As a Government, we are very concerned about forced marriages. We have decided to take the step of criminalising forced marriage, which we believe will send a clear message to people that it is wrong. It is right that the Government send that clear message because forced marriage is wrong, it leads to abuse and we should ensure that it does not take place. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 63 Point of Order 5.43 pm Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Today, workers protested against the possible closure of Coryton oil refinery, which would result in more than 850 job losses and cost the local economy nearly £100 million. We understand that a deal to keep Coryton open as a fully functioning refinery could still be possible with the provision of state aid, as has happened in France. With just days left until Coryton ceases to function as a refinery, have you had any indication from Ministers at the Department of Energy and Climate Change that they plan to come to the House to make a statement on the steps they plan to take to secure the future of the refinery? Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I have received absolutely no indication at all that any Minister intends to come to the House today to make a statement. I am sure that if that is the case, the House will be informed in the usual manner. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 64 Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill Second Reading Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): The amendment on the Order Paper has been selected. 5.44 pm The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Vince Cable): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. I recognise that we face serious competition this afternoon, but let me begin by putting the Bill in the wider economic context. Our economic strategy has two key elements, one of which is to maintain a credible fiscal policy. That policy has led to this country’s borrowing costs dipping to record lows in recent weeks. If we were without a believable deficit reduction strategy, we would have been forced to adopt one by market panic. Although fiscal credibility is necessary, it is not sufficient. A lasting recovery has to be built on the back of sustainable sources of demand and, above all, exports and stronger business investment. We are seeking to bring that about in extremely difficult international conditions, though some encouragement can be derived from the fact that 630,000 private sector jobs have been created in the past two years—almost twice the number lost in the public sector. We also need to deal with the persistent imbalances that the previous Government did so little to address. Gross financial imbalances, a bloated banking sector and property speculation are not a basis for a sustainable recovery. A reliance on domestic demand and the neglect of exports has meant that we have been left behind in international markets. Legislation cannot, of itself, remedy those problems and generate economic activity, but the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill is an important building block none the less. This far-reaching package of measures will scrap the unnecessary bureaucracy that is holding back companies, overhaul the competition framework, and boost business and consumer confidence. Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC): Will the Secretary of State give the House categorical assurances that this House and the other House will not use the Bill to include the recommendations of the Beecroft review, with specific reference to sack-on-the-spot? Vince Cable: I can give a categorical assurance. Of course, as the report has now been published, the hon. Gentleman may be aware that it contains a number of proposals, many of which are admirable, sensible, and being implemented, but on the particular proposal that he mentions, we will most definitely not be proceeding in the way that he outlines. Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): I am concerned that the Secretary of State could bring forward proposals in the Beecroft report that would make this an even more scrappy Bill. Does he think it important that his Department looks to bring about growth in the context of the green economy? I do not see the background for that in this scrappy Bill that he is bringing to the House of Commons tonight. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 65 Vince Cable: We do see that as part of our mandate; indeed, it is the first item that I will discuss in detail. Specifically to support enterprise, we propose legislating for a green investment bank—that, I think, is the issue that is of concern to the hon. Lady. We propose improving the employment tribunal system and promoting resolution of disputes—that, I think, deals with the first intervention. We propose giving shareholders of UK quoted companies binding votes on directors’ pay; promoting competition through a single competition and markets authority; strengthening powers to address anti-competitive behaviour; and encouraging innovation and investment in design by enabling copyright owners to prevent the importation of replica products. To simplify regulation and strip away unnecessary red tape, we propose extending the primary authority scheme to more businesses, for one-stop advice; repealing unnecessary regulatory requirements on business; and providing greater powers to time-limit new regulations—that is, to apply sunset clauses to new measures. Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con): Does the Secretary of State accept that copyright is the legal expression of intellectual property rights, and is not a regulation? Is he aware of the widespread concern among the creative industries about clause 56, which will allow copyright to be amended by statutory instrument without full parliamentary debate? Will he assure the House that the Government will not change copyright in that way without proper parliamentary scrutiny? Vince Cable: Yes, I can give assurances on that. We will deal with this subject later, but I totally accept the hon. Gentleman’s crucial point: intellectual property rights are a key part of a market economy. They are not “regulation” in the pejorative sense in which we normally refer to it—absolutely not; but we have to strike a balance between access to information and copyright protection. We think we are striking the right balance, and we are proceeding to implement the Hargreaves report, which has many of those ideas at its heart. On a personal level, I introduced the private Member’s Bill that strengthened criminal penalties for copyright theft, so I have a long-standing interest in upholding that legislation. Let me deal with the first issue I mentioned—the green investment bank. The transition to a low-carbon economy is a very big challenge. Some analysis suggests that there will be demand for more than £200 billion of investment in the next decade to develop the innovative technologies and products that will underpin it. The challenge is all the greater, given the novelty of these markets and the long-term nature of returns on green infrastructure investment, which may deter private sector investors. There is a market failure here that the green investment bank will address. The bank will break new ground in the financing of projects, while demonstrating to the market that such investments can deliver commercial returns. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op) rose— John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab) rose— Vince Cable: Let me finish, and then I will take interventions. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 66 The bank will also demonstrate the Government’s lasting commitment to important green objectives. For these reasons, I am sure the Opposition will welcome and support its objectives, as I am sure the hon. Lady will. Luciana Berger: The Secretary of State may be aware that a number of months ago the Deputy Prime Minister committed money from the green investment bank to capitalise the initial run of loans for the green deal, which is supposed to launch in a few months, yet we heard at the end of last week that a number of companies, including British Gas and Kingfisher, are halting their plans to proceed with the non-profit-making green deal finance company because the money that they are expecting from Government has not been forthcoming. Will the Secretary of State say when they should expect those funds to come forward? Vince Cable: I am aware that the team currently working on this, UK Green Investments, has been looking at the green deal proposal. Of course it must be commercially viable, as well as environmentally sound, and I cannot give the hon. Lady a precise answer as to when the team will have completed its analysis. I think a good deal more information is still required. John Healey: Will the Business Secretary confirm that the green investment bank will be able to raise funds from the capital markets? In other words, will it be a bank that is able to borrow? If not, it cannot be described as a bank, and it is really just a fund. Vince Cable: It has been described as a bank by the Financial Services Authority, which is the relevant regulatory body, and it will be able to borrow after 2015 in capital markets, subject to the overall debt position of the Government at that time. It is a bank. Joan Walley: Is it not the case, though, that without the certainty that it will be possible for the bank to borrow on the open market, the first few years of the green investment bank will be uncertain? We will not know definitely that it will be able to borrow when the time comes. Vince Cable: The bank will have the certainty of knowing that it has £3 billion committed to it from the Government and it is in the process of developing the projects to utilise that efficiently. I shall point out to the House some of the steps that have been taken to provide that concrete certainty about which the hon. Lady asks. We have formed the bank as a public company, called the UK Green Investment Bank plc. It will be headquartered in Edinburgh. I have appointed Lord Smith of Kelvin as the chair and Sir Adrian Montague as the deputy chair. The bank will be funded with £3 billion to 2015, and the first £200 million of that has already been allocated by UK Green Investments. It will have borrowing powers from 2015, subject to a quite proper test of improving public finances. The Bill specifically provides for complementing this work by ensuring that the bank must have a statement of objectives clause in its articles of association. The Bill also embeds the bank’s independence, which is crucial for its success. To achieve this, the Bill requires me as Secretary of State to lay an undertaking before 11 Jun 2012 : Column 67 Parliament not to interfere with the bank’s operational independence or commercial activities as a condition of designation. I provided this undertaking to the bank on its incorporation. This will ensure that the bank operates on commercial terms, funding these nascent and important environmental markets. Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): I welcome the establishment of the green investment bank in Edinburgh. What measures are the Government putting in place to ensure that small and medium-sized businesses can benefit from the green investment bank? Will there be a procurement code, as requested by the Federation of Small Businesses? Vince Cable: I do not think a specific procurement code is required for this institution, though of course Government procurement raises wider questions. If the hon. Lady looks at the first tranche of commitments—the £200 million—she will find that that is for a fund dealing with a substantial number of waste projects, which have small-scale enterprises as part of their supply chain. That is the way that SMEs will benefit. Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD): Will the Secretary of State confirm that not only are the Government committed to the green investment bank, which is a very good thing and has long been called for, but that there is a wider strategy in his Department, the Department of Energy and Climate Change and the Department for Communities and Local Government to make sure that we develop the green economy, producing a significant number of extra manufacturing jobs and apprenticeships and growth, and that that is a very significant part of the Government’s policy as a whole? It is not just about a bank and £3 billion being lent over a certain number of years. Vince Cable: My right hon. Friend is right. We have the Green Economy Council, which is an over-arching body representing the key Departments in the Government to make sure that our work in this area is integrated and properly joined up. John Healey: If the referendum on Scottish separation is successful, will the Secretary of State relocate this green investment bank from Edinburgh back to England? May I recommend that he considers Leeds and re-examines the case for locating the bank in Yorkshire? Vince Cable: I have every confidence in the sense of the Scottish people, and I have every confidence that the bank’s headquarters will remain viable and expanding in Edinburgh. On employment law, the Government are acutely aware of the need to do all they can to support business expansion and job creation. That is why the Bill contains provisions to reform the employment tribunal system and encourage dispute resolution through conciliation. Smaller businesses have consistently told us that the fear of ending up in a tribunal is high up their worry list and is a real disincentive to taking on staff. I have made it absolutely clear that I have no truck with the idea of a free-for-all hire-and-fire culture, and responsible British businesses do not want to go there either. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 68 Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his introductory comments on this important Bill. Government Members strongly believe in business, and we do not want to hold it back. On the other hand, we want regulation that is necessary to protect the work force, and we want to help them. We need a change in the law to help businesses grow and flourish. Vince Cable: My hon. Friend makes the point in a fair and balanced way, and he defines exactly what we are trying to achieve. Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for saying that he will have no truck with compensated no-fault dismissal, but with many businesses, through the Institute of Directors and the Federation of Small Businesses, making the case for compensated no-fault dismissal, what representations has he had on that? Why has he been so strenuous in saying that he will have no truck with it? Vince Cable: I am happy to go back and look at the correspondence, but the Federation of Small Businesses, as well as the Engineering Employers Federation, made it absolutely clear that they did not think that was a sensible approach for business. Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): When the Secretary of State says that a great number of people have made representations about employment regulation curtailing business growth, does he agree that it is only 6% of employers who stated that employment regulation is an issue that concerns them? Vince Cable: I think the hon. Lady is referring to a survey of small business that my Department did. Indeed, roughly that order of businesses ranked that as their top priority, as opposed to market demand and bank lending. Even though it may not be at the top of everybody’s concerns, for many small companies there is a legitimate fear, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Mr Evennett) pointed out, about the tribunal system and the way it functions. Several hon. Members rose— Vince Cable: I will take one more intervention, then I will move on. Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Does the Secretary of State agree that the Beecroft proposals about no-fault dismissal amount to a charter for intimidation and harassment, including sexual harassment? A boss could say to an employee, “Will you sleep with me?”, and if she said no, she could find herself sacked. Vince Cable: That is going rather further than I would want to go with the argument or the evidence. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): The Bill does not contain measures on some of the matters on which the Government are consulting in respect of employment law, following the red tape challenge. Does the Secretary of State intend to bring forward more proposals during the passage of the Bill—in relation, 11 Jun 2012 : Column 69 for example, to employer liability for third-party harassment, to the ability of an employment tribunal to make a decision that will then apply to all staff, or to the statutory questionnaire? Vince Cable: I have no such proposals. There is nothing stopping the hon. Lady proposing amendments for us to consider. Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): In 2004 Germany exempted micro-businesses from unfair dismissal-style protections. Has the Secretary of State looked at the German experience and noted, as I have, that youth unemployment there has halved, from just over 12% to just over 6%, in the seven years since the changes were made? Vince Cable: As it happens, I was in Germany a few weeks ago—I unfortunately had to miss Business, Innovation and Skills questions—and one of the points clearly made by the various employers I met was that their procedure is far more cumbersome than ours, even for small companies. Indeed, small companies are required to adopt the two-tier system, a works consultation, which is very cumbersome indeed. There is no evidence that the German model, although admirable in many ways—I wish we had many of its aspects here—in any way helps to deal with this problem. Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): I had hoped to see in the Bill further measures taken from the German book, particularly the exclusion of micro-businesses from many of the regulations that hamper them right at the start of their life. Is the Secretary of State willing to consider that and perhaps accept an amendment to that effect in Committee or on Report? Vince Cable: We will obviously look at any proposals on their merits, but our current regulatory system does have a micro-business exemption and we test all our proposals against that possibility. My hon. Friend should perhaps look at the FSB’s submission, because one of the problems the small business sector often highlights is that it does not wish to be regarded as a second-rate tier of employment that is colonised by cowboy employers. It makes it very clear that it is small businesses that resist the segmentation of the labour market. Mr Sam Gyimah (East Surrey) (Con): Does the Secretary of State agree that the current employment tribunal system is not simple, transparent or inexpensive for employers, because for many of them dealing with an individual case or a class action-type case is incredibly expensive and long-winded, and that serves as a barrier to businesses hiring new staff? They know that if things go wrong it is very complicated, so simplifying the system and enabling them to deal with it without resorting to disputes should be the way forward in the Bill. Vince Cable: I totally agree with my hon. Friend, who anticipates many of the things I will say. He is absolutely right that the process is very cumbersome and time-consuming. There is currently an enormous backlog of 430,000 cases and it is very costly, particularly for small companies. The whole thrust of the changes I want to introduce relates specifically to making the tribunal system much simpler and avoidable where possible. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 70 John Healey: May I say how welcome the Secretary of State’s balanced view is, in contrast to those of some Members behind and beside him? On the question of changing the tribunal system, what increase in resources will he make available to the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service if everyone who wants to put a claim to a tribunal must first put it to ACAS? Vince Cable: My experience is that colleagues behind and beside me have a very balanced view of this question—we have no difficulties in this area at all. We will indeed rely heavily on ACAS and it is important that it is properly resourced, so we will obviously have to look at that, but we have had no warnings that it cannot handle the processes that we propose to introduce. If the right hon. Gentleman will let me, I will try to describe what those are. Our reforms are not about removing individual employment rights; they are designed to ensure that the tribunal system is fair to all parties and supports labour market flexibility. They are meant to improve the prospect of employers and workers sorting out problems through reconciliation—ACAS-based dispute resolution—rather than the adversarial and costly method of going to court, as my hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) admirably pointed out. Tribunals are a costly and stressful process for everyone involved. Giving all parties a new opportunity to resolve disputes through ACAS will maximise the chances of resolving a problem without going to a tribunal. We want to do more to encourage parties to reach an agreed solution at an earlier stage. We will therefore introduce an additional clause in Committee to ensure that the offer of a settlement cannot be used against an employer in an unfair dismissal case. That will facilitate the use of settlement agreements, making it easier and quicker for employers and employees to come to an agreed settlement where an employment relationship is not working. Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): I welcome the decision to move forward with settlements and compensation, which is a really good move, particularly for small businesses, and thank the Secretary of State for listening to many Government Members who have put the case for more clarity for smaller businesses. Vince Cable: I thank my hon. Friend for his positive response. The Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb), who will guide the Bill through Committee, will be able to develop that a little more, and any insights that my hon. Friend has for improving that new idea will be warmly received. Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): Of course, if an employee and an employer have “without prejudice” discussions that involve an offer to pay off and for the employee to depart on that basis, at present that cannot be adduced at tribunal. The Secretary of State will know that a relationship of trust and confidence is essential to the existence of an employment relationship. How does he see that working if an employer’s offer to pay off has been refused by the employee who feels that there is no reason why they should leave? 11 Jun 2012 : Column 71 Vince Cable: If the dispute is then unresolved, which is the implication of the last phrase in the hon. Gentleman’s question, it would of course remain and would have to be resolved either through conciliation or, ultimately, a tribunal, so he is referring to an unresolved dispute rather than a resolved dispute. What we are specifically proposing is that, if there is an agreement and the dispute is resolved, the matter cannot subsequently be raised in a tribunal case—[Interruption.] He shrugs his shoulders, but our understanding, having talked with business groups and trade unions, is that that would be a very helpful step, and I think that that reinforces what we have just heard. In addition, we are streamlining the tribunal process itself, including providing for the introduction of a rapid resolution scheme, so that straightforward cases can be dealt with more quickly, and reducing the burden of resolution for users of the tribunal system and the taxpayer. Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Weald) (Con): Does the Secretary of State agree that the rapid resolution scheme will make it quicker, cheaper, easier and less stressful to deal with those straightforward matters not only for employers, but for employees? Vince Cable: Yes, and I thank my hon. Friend for making that important point. It is not simply employers who have problems with the existing system; often payments are far less than the people who bring the cases expect, the process is stressful and lengthy and the current system simply cannot handle the volume of claims. In addition, there will be a discretionary power for employment tribunals to levy a financial penalty against an employer where there has been an aggravating breach of an individual’s employment rights, which will also encourage employer compliance. Taken together, these measures will help shift the emphasis from confrontation to conciliation when resolving workplace disputes and give businesses the confidence to expand and take on new staff. Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): On the point about business confidence and taking on new staff, having worked as a freelance software engineer, one thing I see missing from part 2 is anything to resolve the difficulties and ambiguities with the status of freelancers. Will the Secretary of State use the opportunity in Committee to do something about IR35? Vince Cable: I am tempted to engage in a long disquisition on that subject, having been involved in the debates on IR35 10 years ago. It is primarily a tax issue. As some Opposition Members will remember, the IR35 measures were introduced primarily to avoid a particular form of tax avoidance using national insurance, so if we have to do more on IR35 we will look to my colleagues in the Treasury, rather than this Bill. Let me turn to directors’ pay. Fairness is important, and never more so than when the fiscal situation we inherited has forced upon us difficult decisions that affect everybody in society. That principle extends to executive pay, which for some years has behaved in a way that is unrelated to the rest of the economy or performance. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 72 There is a well-established case for the regulation of directors’ remuneration, given the inherent conflict of interest when directors set their own pay. Moreover, shareholders in a number of companies have shown that they are increasingly angered by soaring pay for top executives that is unrelated to company performance. Their willingness to challenge rewards for failure is admirable, but I want this “shareholder spring” to be more than just a passing, seasonal phenomenon. In developing our proposals, we have worked intensively with businesses and investors to create a workable package that helps shareholders to hold directors to account, while avoiding unnecessary red tape on business and unrealistic demands for investors to micro-manage pay. Responses to our consultation showed clear support for strengthened shareholder voting rights in order to improve the link between pay and long-term performance, while still allowing boards the flexibility to devise and deliver pay policy. In the past it has been too easy for companies to ignore a significant adverse vote from their shareholders. That is why the Bill includes a provision to give shareholders binding votes on directors’ pay. We intend to introduce new clauses in Committee, when we have analysed in detail the responses to our consultation and finalised our proposals in that area. Jonathan Edwards: What consideration has the Secretary of State given to creating remuneration bodies that include company employees? Surely such bodies would have a wider remit and far greater buy-in. Vince Cable: That is an issue on which we have frequently exchanged views across the House, and we do indeed want to see employee consultation, but we are not mandating employee representatives on boards, which I know some people have called for, and we have made that very clear in the past. Simon Hughes: This is one of those issues that the Government inherited. It is the scandal, left by the previous Government, of absolutely obscene pay for top executives—uncontrolled by shareholders. I therefore welcome the proposals, but will my right hon. Friend clarify that the Prime Minister and Government still take the view that in the public sector the ratio should be a maximum of 20:1, and that in the private sector, where it is not a matter for Government to determine, all shareholders will have adequate notice of any proposals, so that there is both private and public participation in the debate as well as a binding vote on the remuneration package for the executives at the top of private sector companies? Vince Cable: There are separate developments taking place that do not require primary legislation, and they will improve the quality of information available to shareholders. The Financial Reporting Council has responsibility for that, and I do not have the powers to direct it, even if I wanted to, but the quality of information is intended to improve, and we certainly want to see a range of information made available, including the aggregates that my right hon. Friend describes, as well as simpler and clearer information. That process is taking place in parallel with this Bill. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 73 The Bill will improve the way in which competition is promoted and policed. The UK’s support for a free and open trading system remains fundamental to our economic strategy, and the steady pressure from competitive markets ensures that businesses boost productivity and consumers benefit. Our competition regime has been well regarded, but it can be too slow, and recently there have been some worrying criticisms about how it has managed cartel offences. The reforms that I propose are designed to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of competition enforcement, operating through a new competition and markets authority, backed by streamlined and strengthened powers. The current division of responsibility for the two phases of the markets and mergers regimes, between the Competition Commission and the Office of Fair Trading, can lead to a duplication of activity and the inefficient use of resources. Further, the time it currently takes to complete mergers, markets and anti-trust cases is often far too long, and that in turn imposes additional costs on business, including on those that pose no threat to competition. Our reforms to the competition regime are designed to create a single, strong voice for competition and a one-stop shop for business; to create greater certainty for business, thanks to faster, clearer and, indeed, statutory time frames; to provide for more effective action to tackle anti-competitive mergers, including the discretion to suspend them; and to provide for robust action to tackle cartels, which can damage business and consumers alike, by removing, for example, the need to prove dishonesty. In addition, it will be easier for businesses to ask the new competition and markets authority to halt uncompetitive practices while investigations are ongoing. These measures go hand in hand with proposals, on which we are currently consulting, to allow businesses to take private actions to stop anti-competitive practices and to achieve redress. Another aspect of our reforms relates to intellectual property rights, an issue that the Chair of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, the hon. Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale), raised a few moments ago. The modernisation of copyright is critical to investment in the UK’s creative industries, one of our most successful export sectors. Research by Imperial college and the Intellectual Property Office shows that annual copyright investment in artistic originals in film, TV and radio, books, music and art was about $5 billion, twice the original estimate. Spending on UK design amounts to almost £33.5 billion, and there are about 350,000 people in core design occupations of all kinds. The sale of unauthorised replicas of classic designs, such as a lamp or a piece of furniture, means that firms that depend on design can lose out, so the Bill ensures that those designs that are also artistic works and, therefore, qualify for copyright protection will be protected for 70 years from the creator’s death, instead of for the current 25 years. The Bill also creates an order-making power that will allow the Government to make any future changes related to copyright exceptions or exceptions to rights in performances. The practical consequence of that will be to maintain the level of criminal penalties, in which as I said earlier I have a personal interest, given that my private Member’s Bill introduced the current maximum penalty level of 10 years’ imprisonment 11 Jun 2012 : Column 74 In addition, the Government have made a number of proposals in response to the Hargreaves review of intellectual property and growth and subsequent consultation. They are needed to ensure that the copyright system is fit for purpose in the digital age. It has been decades since the intellectual property regime was overhauled, during which time the world has changed beyond recognition. It would be negligent to leave unchanged a system suited to the cassette recorder in an era of iPads and cloud-based music services. Primary legislation will be required for three of those reforms: the introduction of a scheme to allow extended collective licensing; one to allow the use of orphan works; and, finally, a back-stop power to allow the Government to require a collecting society to implement a statutory code of conduct, should it fail to introduce or adhere to a suitable voluntary code. The Government’s proposals on extended collective licensing and on the use of orphan works are designed to make it simpler for users to use copyright works legitimately, while protecting the interests of rights holders. At the same time, introducing codes of conduct for collecting societies will provide valuable reassurance to the thousands of small businesses and other organisations, including creators, that deal with them. The Government are finalising their response to the consultation on those three proposals, and if we decide to proceed we will want to move swiftly. The Bill presents an opportunity to do so, and I shall announce a decision on the matter as soon as possible. Geraint Davies: How does the strength of law on copyright compare with that on patents? I am thinking of the international duplication of a copyright, such as on a chair, as the Secretary of State said, and how the law will be enforced internationally. Vince Cable: I do not think that there is any link between patents and copyrights in this case; they are separate systems of law. The hon. Gentleman will know that in the European Union there is already a unified approach to patents and to copyright, but we are trying to ensure that in the UK context copyright protection is properly enforced. That is the purpose of the changes before us. Mr Whittingdale: The Secretary of State will be aware that in the Hargreaves report a number of the proposals relating to possible extensions of copyright exception are causing real concern in the creative industries. Can he provide an assurance that they will be introduced not by statutory instrument, but in proper, primary legislation? Vince Cable: I am not going to give the hon. Gentleman a very precise answer because I will need to check on the exact legal position. I am aware of the concerns, and he is one of several people who have expressed them. I will endeavour to reply to him in writing to give him the precise answer to his question. A further set of reforms accelerates the Government’s drive to tear up unnecessary red tape. We inherited over 20,000 separate rules and regulations affecting business in the UK. Cumulatively, this regulation stifles growth and strangles innovation, and in the past two years we have launched a concerted drive to tackle the problem. We introduced the one in, one out rule to stem the flow 11 Jun 2012 : Column 75 of regulation to business. The aim of one in, one out is not only to force regulating Departments to deregulate more but to change the Whitehall culture to encourage Departments to use regulation only as a last resort. Under the red tape challenge, 20 regulatory themes have been launched for comment on the website, involving more than 3,700 regulations. Decisions have been announced by Ministers on 1,500 of those, of which well over 50% will be scrapped or improved. Kate Green: How will the provisions of clause 51 on repealing some of the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 in relation to the general duty and the good relations duty have any impact on business whatsoever? Vince Cable: I was going to mention that measure at the end of my speech. We see it essentially as a bit of legislative tidying up; we are not going to argue that it has significant impacts on business. However, we can pursue the detailed implications. The Bill introduces further measures and makes it possible to include a sunset or review clause in any new secondary legislation to ensure that legislation is fit for purpose and is regularly reviewed. It also extends business eligibility for the highly successful primary authority scheme, which allows firms to get assured advice from one local authority on a particular regulatory issue. Often what businesses find most bewildering is not the regulation itself—they recognise that rules are often necessary—but the inconsistent application of the rules so that they have to adjust their systems depending on the whim of a local official. The primary authority scheme deals with that. Mr Gyimah: On reviewing regulations that have already been passed, one regulation that springs to mind is the agency workers directive, where, on issues such as pay, bonuses and holidays, we have gold-plated what Brussels originally introduced. In so doing, we have made what is supposed to be flexible, temporary work more like permanent work, which it should not be. Would we be able to review that legislation under the sunset clause that the Secretary of State mentioned? Vince Cable: This would not be the context in which to do it, because it is, of course, now part of the law. We have looked at this in considerable detail because a lot of concern has been expressed about it. The UK’s implementation of the agency workers directive came about as the result of a negotiated agreement between employers and employees and their representative bodies. We explored the possibility of easing some of the burdens on business arising from the directive and came to the conclusion that in practice we could not do so. However, I hear the hon. Gentleman’s concerns, which were expressed by many companies. Mr Gyimah: I understand that the TUC and the CBI, as European social partners, were very involved in the negotiations between employees and business, but representatives of small businesses were not, despite the fact that the impact of such legislation on small businesses can be particularly draconian. I urge the Secretary of 11 Jun 2012 : Column 76 State to consider a way of reviewing the gold-plating of such legislation, especially where it applies to small businesses. Vince Cable: I have an open mind if the hon. Gentleman has good ideas as to how that can be done. We have committed ourselves to removing the gold-plating of European legislation as it applies to Britain, and if he has good, constructive ideas, we are happy to look at them. Julian Smith: Has the Secretary of State given any further thought to including EU directives and legislation in the quarterly statements that are being produced by his Department? Earlier, he said in answer to a question of mine that he might consider it, and I would be interested to know whether he has done so. Vince Cable: The Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk), who has done admirable work in progressing this agenda, tells me that we are indeed planning to do that and that it will appear in that form. Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): Following the dialogue that has just taken place, I am left unclear whether the Secretary of State agrees that agency worker regulations are gold-plated. If he thinks that they are gold-plated, in what sense is that the case, and if he does not think so, will he make that statement clearly? Vince Cable: As I said, that case has been strongly made to us by people in the business community. I also said that the directive’s current form in British law was the result of a consensus among the main social partners. Although the CBI has small business membership, it would not consider that area to be its primary function. If there are specific proposals on how some of the gold-plating, if that is what it is, can be alleviated in a sensible and fair way, I am always willing to look at that. I do not have a closed mind on these issues. Sheila Gilmore: I am still left unclear about the meaning of gold-plating, which, in my view, is a phrase that is thrown around this House far too often. In what way does the Secretary of State think that there is gold-plating in this respect? Vince Cable: What small businesses usually mean by gold-plating is that they spend a great deal of time filling in forms, ticking boxes and complying with regulatory measures that impede their business activity. If that is the case in this respect, as in others, we are happy to look at it. Also in a deregulatory spirit, the heritage measures in the Bill implement commitments to legislation made in the Government’s response to the Penfold review of non-planning consents, which aimed to ensure that non-planning consent regimes operate in the most flexible and simplified way. The measures include bringing greater clarity on what is and what is not protected within listing buildings, and they will enable owners and local planning authorities to enter into voluntary partnership agreements to help them to manage listed buildings more effectively. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 77 The measures that I have outlined are designed to improve the business environment and to help to restore the UK economy to health by laying the foundations for lasting recovery. Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab) rose— Vince Cable: I am coming to the end of my speech. I have acknowledged that legislation by itself will not solve the economic challenges we face, but these measures will help to create a platform for sustainable recovery. I commend the Bill to the House. 6.27 pm Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): I beg to move, That this House, whilst supporting the principles of the Green Investment Bank and affirming its belief that active government should work in partnership with business to encourage long-term sustainable economic growth, facilitate enterprise, protect the rights of all, particularly low-paid, workers and simplify regulation where necessary, declines to give a Second Reading to the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill because it does not provide a strategy for economic growth; believes that the Bill contains inadequate measures to boost business confidence, enhance this country’s international competitiveness, increase competition in consumer markets or protect consumers from powerful vested interests; further believes that the Bill fails to provide sufficient support to empower shareholders, investors and employees on executive remuneration to bring to an end excessive rewards for corporate failure; and is concerned that the Bill grants the Secretary of State additional powers to alter compensatory awards for unfair dismissal and contains provisions relating to the conciliation process that could dilute the rights of people at work. I will deal with each element of the Bill in turn and, in so doing, explain our amendment. Given the very varied nature of the Bill, that will take some time, but I will do it as swiftly as possible because many others want to take part in the debate. First, I want briefly to consider what the Government claim the Bill will achieve overall. In January last year, not long after the Government’s spending review, the Secretary of State told this House: “economic growth is now strong. It will become stronger as a result of the work that the Government are doing in stabilising finances”.—[Official Report, 13 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 429.] Quite the opposite has turned out to be the case. Since the spending review, the economy has shrunk by 0.4%, we have been tipped into a double-dip recession, over 2.6 million people are now out of work, and 50 businesses are going under every single day. That was not the case back in May 2010; it is now, thanks to the policies of this low-growth Government. When my party left office, the World Bank ranked the UK fourth in the world and first in Europe for ease of doing business. This year, we have slumped to seventh place. Businesses face an increasingly difficult operating environment, not least because of the problems that sound and successful firms have found in accessing finance, with net lending to business contracting year on year in every month since this Government came into office. In fairness to the Secretary of State, he has recognised his and the Government’s failings. He said that they have no “compelling vision” for the country, that they lack “a confident message on how we will earn our living in the future”, and that there is 11 Jun 2012 : Column 78 “no connected approach across government” to driving growth. He suggests that the Bill will change all this. Indeed, on the day of its First Reading he said: “The measures in the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill will help make Britain one of the most enterprise-friendly countries in the world.” He said that it would resolve the ongoing issue of no growth. That remains to be seen. I sincerely hope that that will be the case for the sake of our country, but I and many businesses doubt it. Julian Smith: I challenge the hon. Gentleman’s point that Labour left the country in a good regulatory state. The CBI states that 107 of the 152 employment regulations were put on the statute book during Labour’s period in power. Was that leaving the country in a good regulatory state? Mr Umunna: What I cited was the World Bank’s assessment of the state in which we left the environment for businesses to carry out their work. If the hon. Gentleman reads the guidance that has been issued by his Government, he will see that we have been praised for doing things such as introducing the primary authority scheme, which was supposed to, and did, reduce the regulatory burden on businesses. Perhaps the Secretary of State’s most damning criticism of his and his Government’s actions is that they are “frankly, rather piecemeal”. At first sight, that is precisely what the Bill is. It is a hotch-potch of measures that provides no discernible overall vision or confident message. There is no evidence of a connected approach across Government to drive growth. Business was straight off the blocks with its criticisms of the Queen’s Speech, the centrepiece of which was this legislation. The director general of the British Chambers of Commerce said what many people have been saying for many months: “There is a big black hole when it comes to aiding business to create enterprise, generate wealth and grow.” He is right. Our amendment makes it clear that the Bill, viewed as a whole, does not change that assessment. I will quickly go through the parts of the Bill and set out our position on each. Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Mr Umunna: I will make a bit of progress, because I want to ensure that there is time for others to get in. Part 1 will set up the green investment bank. I have stated on many occasions, as has the Leader of the Opposition, that it is crucial to long-term economic growth to have an active Government working in partnership with the private sector. In our view, the Government should work with business to identify the sectors from which future demand will come and to ensure that companies are set up to meet that demand. There is and will continue to be a growing demand for green technologies, so we need an active industrial strategy to support the low-carbon economy, as I and my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) have argued. A critical component of that is the green investment bank. That is why we set up the green investment bank commission in 2009 with a view to establishing such a 11 Jun 2012 : Column 79 bank, and why we committed ourselves to establishing such a bank in our 2010 manifesto. We will therefore not oppose the bank—our amendment makes it clear that we support it in principle. Also, I do not want to add further long-term policy uncertainty in this area, after the huge uncertainty that the Government have heaped on the low-carbon sector since coming to office. I note that the deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, who has left his place, conveniently ignored the decision on feed-in tariffs, which is perhaps the most glaring example of the uncertainty that has been created. As the Secretary of State said, Lord Smith of Kelvin and Sir Adrian Montague were appointed as the chair and deputy chair of UK Green Investment Bank plc during the Whitsun recess. We welcome their appointment. Having heard what the Secretary of State has said, I suggest that until this entity is given the power to borrow and to lend, allowing it to leverage its initial equity to make more capital available, it will not be a body that most people would recognise as a bank. It is a fund, whereas it is an operational bank that the country needs. The Secretary of State made has made it clear that it will not be allowed to borrow—he repeated this today—unless public sector net debt is falling as a percentage of GDP in 2015. The earliest it is likely to be able to borrow is therefore 2016. That is a delay of four years from now. Ed Matthew, the director of Transform UK, the business alliance campaigning for the bank to be set up, put it well: “Allowing the bank to borrow is the key to generating growth and rebooting the UK economy. Delaying this power until the economy has recovered is like a doctor waiting for a seriously ill patient to recover before giving him life-saving medicine”. David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): I am listening carefully to the shadow Secretary of State’s comments on the green investment bank. He has talked about the importance of low-carbon industries. Does he agree that the scope of the green investment bank should include the nuclear supply chain, which is far and away the biggest low-carbon industry in our country? That would enable us to lend to Sheffield Forgemasters, a company that I have heard him talk about many times. Mr Umunna: We will wait to see the detail that the Government come forward with in Committee. We are clear that the bank needs to step in to fill the funding gap if we are to green our economy. It is with that in mind that we will decide our position, as and when the Secretary of State comes forward with the detail. Joan Walley: To go back one step, what my hon. Friend just read out about the need for borrowing powers was exactly the recommendation of the Environmental Audit Committee. In the Public Bill Committee, will he explore with the Government what progress has been made in respect of state aid rules to ensure that there is no impediment to getting this off the ground? Mr Umunna: I will be happy to do that. My hon. Friend is, of course, the Chair of that Select Committee. Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend agree that the green investment bank must not be a bank of last resort that simply takes the 11 Jun 2012 : Column 80 projects that no one else is prepared to take, but must drive investment forward, taking the private sector with it, particularly in areas such as offshore wind, tidal power and carbon capture, which we have plenty of opportunity to develop further? Mr Umunna: I could not agree more. The Government have committed to additionality and we will look to ensure that that occurs. Part 2 of the Bill relates to employment law, which has attracted much public concern. As I have said before, we are not in a double-dip recession because of the rights that people in this country enjoy at work. No amount of sabre rattling and nonsense from Government Members about the need to allow employers to fire employees at will is going to get us out of recession. That is a simple fact. We are in a double-dip recession because of a lack of demand. Watering down employee rights will not boost demand. In fact, it is highly likely— Mr Gyimah: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Mr Umunna: I was wondering when a Government Member would seek to intervene. I will give way shortly. Watering down employee rights will not boost demand but is highly likely to do the opposite. As the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development said last week, increasing job insecurity is more likely to damage growth and consumer confidence than increase them. I say to the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) that the Federation of Small Businesses has been in contact with us today about the Government’s proposals to allow no-fault dismissal, with fewer employment protections for those working in small businesses, for which he has argued. It has said that “those who do take employment in small firms could be lower skilled, less productive workers willing to accept lower protection, making it even more difficult for these firms to grow” and that “there is a question that with weakened rights, employees in small firms would find getting access to credit more difficult. If so, that would make labour recruitment for small firms even harder.” Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): Absolute nonsense! Mr Umunna: I say to the hon. Member for Bedford and to the hon. Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley), who says that that is absolute nonsense, that I have quoted the Federation of Small Businesses word for word. It has made it clear that replacing the need for good management with a hire-and-fire culture does not fit with its views on good employee relations. Mr Gyimah: There is a fundamental misunderstanding here. It is a misrepresentation to say that any conversation about making it easier for both employers and employees to exit a relationship that is not working is an attack on workers’ rights. That is simply not true and it is not what the Bill tries to do. The shadow Secretary of State has mentioned that we need growth. It is important to remove everything that stops investors being confident enough to invest. Access to finance is one such thing, but so is the confidence to hire people. That is why the Bill seeks to simplify the employment tribunals system. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 81 Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. A lot of Members are waiting to speak, so interventions must be brief. Mr Umunna: I will expand on that point in more detail later, but what I can tell the hon. Gentleman now is that when I ask businesses what is currently holding them back, most say a lack of orders and demand, not the rights that their employees enjoy at work. If we are looking to encourage businesses to hire people, why not give all micro-businesses a national insurance break—I believe he has a seat in the south-east—when they take on extra workers? That would do more to help them grow their businesses. Mr Binley: I know that the shadow Secretary of State admires experience. He knows that I founded two companies that collectively employ 260 people. He knows that we deal with many, many small businesses, and I am involved with them on a weekly basis. I can tell him that many small businesses are frightened to take people on because they are frightened of being blackmailed, should it not work out. That is a real problem, which his party needs to face up to. Mr Umunna: I acknowledge the hon. Gentleman’s great wisdom and experience, but I respectfully disagree with his overall depiction of employees blackmailing their employers willy-nilly. I say that as a former employment law solicitor who has advised business people like him, but employees too. Richard Fuller: May I point out that this is the Secretary of State’s Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill, not mine? I am sure that mine would be somewhat different. The shadow Secretary of State talks about job protection, and about the recession and demand, but does he accept that it goes a little deeper than that? Recent experience in the UK and the US shows that when we have recovered from recessions, we have not created jobs as swiftly as we did in the ’50s, ’60s and ’70s. In that context, does he not think it is worth looking at the recommendation made by Beecroft? Mr Umunna: I am not sure exactly which proposal the hon. Gentleman thinks it is worth having a look at. If he is talking about the proposal to allow no-fault dismissal in firms of fewer than 10 employees—which I believe is what he spoke about earlier—the answer is no. I do not agree that it is worth looking at, partly because there is no evidence that having no-fault dismissal encourages or helps firms to grow, as was previously made clear in business questions by the Minister responsible for employment relations, the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb). I do not deny that employment law and regulation more generally are matters of concern for small businesses. It would be absurd of me to make such a claim, and I am not making it. However, it is the state of our economy that has been consistently identified by small and medium-sized enterprises as the main barrier to their success. We know this because that is what they have been telling Ministers. In the Government’s latest “SME Business Barometer”—which I think the Secretary of State mentioned earlier—32% of SME employers said that the state of the economy was the main obstacle 11 Jun 2012 : Column 82 to the success of their business, followed by issues such as cash flow, taxation and finance. Just 7% cited regulation as the main obstacle to their success. Let me be absolutely clear: we on this side of the House will not countenance watering down the rights that every constituent of every Member of this House enjoys in the name of growth. I should also note that Conservative Members—nobody has made this comment today, but they have before—have been keen to present this as solely a union issue. It is not: it affects just about every working person in this country, regardless of whether they are a member of a trade union. While everyone else has been worrying about losing their job—thanks to the Government’s economic incompetence in my view—their rights at work have, frankly, been used as a political football in the Government, among Departments and between the two governing parties. That does nothing to dispel the overall impression of shambles that hangs over the Government. However, Minsters and those who have been briefing the media on their behalf should also reflect on the huge worry that such briefing on employment law is generating among those who work in our businesses, with all the talk of further liberalising our labour market, which is one of the most liberalised labour markets in the western world. Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): Will my hon. Friend give way? Mr Umunna: I will give way shortly. The Secretary of State has quite rightly said that it is not the job of the Government to “scare the wits” out of people, but that is what the Government have been doing— Julian Smith: No it isn’t. Mr Umunna: Yes it is: it is precisely what they have been doing with the promotion of the Beecroft report by the Prime Minister and others. I should say that the Secretary of State is no innocent bystander. His little chat with The Sun on Saturday evening generated an article in that paper yesterday carrying the headline “Quick Cash for Sack”. This hardly reassures vulnerable employees who are anxious about their job security. That article was, of course, the pre-spin for the new measure—which has been mentioned today—to prevent employees from using a pay-off offer as evidence in a tribunal. The measure will presumably be inserted in the provisions in the Bill that deal with the new settlement agreements. We were notified of the proposal only when I read my copy of The Sun yesterday, as it did not appear in the Bill or the explanatory notes, so we have not had proper time to consider it. At first sight, it is questionable whether it would work in practice. As a former employment lawyer like me, the Minister responsible for employment relations will know that essential components of an employment relationship are trust and confidence between the parties. How on earth can trust and confidence continue to exist if a pay-off offer is made out of the blue when the employee has done nothing wrong and decides to reject the offer? What happens then? This needs further clarification. So too do the Government’s intentions in relation to the employment law provisions of the Bill and the Beecroft 11 Jun 2012 : Column 83 report, because, further to the questions that Labour Members have asked the Secretary of State, I am no clearer about how many parts of the Beecroft report will potentially be inserted in the Bill. Julian Smith: I assume that the hon. Gentleman, as a former employer lawyer, was involved in negotiating compromise agreements. Surely the proposals that we are discussing this evening are just simplified compromise agreements for smaller companies which will be much easier to administer and will not involve payment of the fees that I am sure he earned advising bigger companies on such agreements. Mr Umunna: No, the hon. Gentleman is wrong. As things stand, the position in law is that if a pay-off offer is made during a “without prejudice” discussion between an employee and an employer—which would take place if there was an ongoing dispute—that cannot be adduced as evidence in court. However, if a pay-off offer was made out of the blue where there was no pre-existing dispute, that could be adduced as evidence. What I discern from what is being proposed is that the Government are seeking to ensure that that situation is covered too, so that such an offer could not be adduced in evidence in court either. [Interruption.] I believe that the Minister responsible for employment relations is agreeing with my interpretation. My issue with that is that if an employee in a firm is quite happy and believes that they have done nothing wrong, but the employer does not like them for some reason, decides that they are going to get rid of them and offers them a set sum, the employee should be able to adduce that as evidence to show that the employer was intent on getting rid of them come what may. That is the point that I am seeking to make. Further clarification will be needed. However, let me once again ask the Secretary of State—I will give way to him on this point—how many parts of the Beecroft report are going to be inserted in the Bill by way of amendment, if any. He has—I think—been clear with us today that the proposal for a no-fault dismissal measure, on which the consultation has just closed, will not feature in the Bill. How many other parts of Beecroft are likely to feature in the Bill through amendments? I am happy to give way to him if he is willing to answer that question. Vince Cable: As far as I am aware there is none, but the hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Beecroft report covers a wide range of activities, including things such as immigration control, which clearly do not belong in this Bill. However, as far as I am aware, no other provisions are allowed for in this case. Mr Umunna: I am slightly surprised by that answer because of the equivocation. The Secretary of State commissioned the report—it was his report—and this is his Bill, so surely he can provide us all with a categorical assurance now that no elements of Beecroft will feature in the Bill. I am happy to give way again, if he wishes to clarify that point. No? I think that people will note his failure to reply. 11 Jun 2012 : Column 84 With regard to what is in the Bill, our amendment makes it clear that the proposals to grant the Secretary of State new powers to vary the limits for compensatory awards in unfair dismissal cases are totally unacceptable. Clause 12 proposes to give the Secretary of State the power to cap the compensatory award, which is currently capped at £72,300, at a maximum of between median earnings and three times median earnings—that is, between £26,000 and £78,000—or one year’s earnings, or whichever is the lower of the two. No advance warning of this measure was given, and there has been no consultation on it. Why? It is also hard to see the justification for the proposal when we consider that the median award for unfair dismissal came in at just over £6,000 in the past year. The practical effect of the proposal would be that those on average or above-average earnings—middle income earners in particular—would not be properly compensated if they were treated unfairly by their employers. Let us be clear who we are talking about. This would affect accountants, architects, chartered surveyors, insurance brokers, lawyers and mechanical engineers, as well as many other public service professionals. Those people are all in occupations that attract average or above-average earnings. Lower income earners in this country have already been hit hard by the Chancellor’s Budgets since this Government came to office. It is middle income earners who stand to suffer most from this change. Of course, those earning millions every year—who have just been given a huge tax break by the Government—no doubt have plenty in the bank and will not have to worry about this, but that does not apply to the majority of earners in this country. Julian Smith: Does the shadow Secretary of State think it reasonable that, in 1999, the compensatory award level was £12,000 and that it is now £72,300? Does he think that it has gone up by a reasonable amount over that period? Mr Umunna: I think it is reasonable, when people have been treated in an appalling and unfair fashion by their employers, that they should be properly compensated. The Bill contains a related measure to give the Secretary of State the power to vary compensatory awards for employers of different descriptions. The Employment Lawyers Association, of which I used to be a member, said last week that having different rules for micro-businesses, for example, would make people think twice about working for small businesses, knowing that they would have less employment protection than if they worked for a large employer. _______________________________________________________________ Next Section Index Home Page Footer links * A-Z index * Glossary * Contact us * Freedom of Information * Jobs * Using this website * Copyright #Recent updates Skip to main content GOV .UK Search Search ____________________ Search Menu * Departments * Topics * Worldwide * How government works * Get involved * Policies * Publications * Consultations * Statistics * Announcements GOV.UK uses cookies to make the site simpler. Find out more about cookies Tell us what you think of GOV.UK No thanks Take the 3 minute survey This will open a short survey on another website Oral statement to Parliament Speech by Home Secretary on second reading of Immigration Bill Organisation: Home Office Delivered on: 22 September 2013 Page history: Published 22 October 2013 Policy: Securing borders and reducing immigration Topic: Borders and immigration Minister: The Rt Hon Theresa May MP Speech given by the Home Secretary on Tuesday (22 October) in the House Of Commons at the second reading of the Immigration Bill. The Rt Hon Theresa May MP I beg to move that the Bill now be read a second time. Mr Speaker, we have introduced a limit on economic migration from outside the EU, cut out abuse of student visas and reformed family visas. As a result net migration is down by a third. Our objective remains to reduce annual net migration to the tens of thousands by the end of the Parliament. We must also reform the immigration system that manages the flow of migrants in and out of the UK. When I addressed this House in March this year, I explained that the immigration system we had inherited from the last Government was chaotic and dysfunctional. Having created a separate entity in Border Force to get a grip on border checks we were left with a UK Border Agency that still lacked transparency and accountability. To tackle this I split the UK Border Agency into two distinct operational commands inside the Home Office – UK Visas & Immigration and Immigration Enforcement. I made clear that whilst organisational reform was necessary to transform the way we dealt with immigration, it would not, on its own, be enough to achieve that goal. We also needed to update the IT infrastructure, and change the complicated legal and policy framework that so often worked against us. This Bill changes some of that legal and policy framework so that it will be possible for the immigration system to operate fairly and effectively. Immigration system First, it will cut abuse of the appeal process. The Bill will streamline the labyrinthine legal process which at present allows appeals against 17 different Home Office decisions. 17 different opportunities for the immigration lawyers to cash in, and for immigrants who should not be here to delay their deportation. By limiting grounds of appeal to 4 – only those which engage fundamental rights – we will cut this abuse. Second, we will extend the number of non-suspensive appeals so that, where there is no risk of serious and irreversible harm, we can deport first and hear appeals later. We will also end the abuse of Article 8. There are some who seem to think that the right to family life should always take precedence over public interest in immigration control and deporting foreign criminals. This Bill will make the view of Parliament on this issue very clear. Finally, the Bill will clamp down on those who live and work in the UK illegally and take advantage of our public services. That is not fair to the British public, and it is not fair to the legitimate migrants who contribute to our society and economy. Part 1 of the Bill is about removals. The current process for enforcing the removal of people unlawfully in the UK is a complex one, with too many stages before an individual can be removed. With multiple decision points, the current system provides individuals with multiple opportunities to bring challenges throughout the process. This increases the risk of further delay before removal takes place. We want to adopt a system where only one decision is made. This will inform the individual that they cannot stay in the UK, and enable Immigration Enforcement to remove them if they do not leave voluntarily. The existing system, designed by the previous government through their eight different Acts of Parliament, does not work. It was inevitable that such a complex system would be exploited. The Bill remedies this. Removals As well as delaying the removal process, some illegal migrants held in immigration detention may apply to an immigration judge for bail and use this chance to disappear. Bail may be appropriate in some circumstances. But can it be appropriate to grant bail when the detainee is booked onto a flight in the next few days and there are no exceptional circumstances? Should immigration detainees who have already been refused bail be permitted to make repeat applications day after day? The Bill will bring sense to the law in this area and stop this abuse. Establishing the identity of illegal migrants is a further difficulty in the removal process. Visa applicants are required to give their fingerprints to an entry clearance officer before they enter the UK. Following my reforms at the border last year, the fingerprints of arriving passengers are checked to ensure the person who has travelled to the UK is the rightful holder of the visa. But there are gaps in our powers to take fingerprints. The Bill closes them. When the police encounter a suspect, they have the power to check fingerprints. But when an immigration officer encounters a suspect illegal migrant, they may only check fingerprints where consent is given. Not surprisingly, not everyone consents. Officers need powers equivalent to the police so that when they find an illegal migrant, officers can check their fingerprints to confirm their suspicion, and start enforcement action. Part 2 of the Bill is about appeals. The appeals system is complex and costly. There are 17 different immigration decisions which attract rights of appeal, and when a case finally comes to a close, some applicants put in fresh applications and start all over again. This is not fair to the public, who expect swift enforcement of immigration decisions. Appeals This Bill sorts out this mess. In future, 17 rights of appeal will be reduced to four. Foreign criminals will not be able to prevent deportation simply by dragging out the appeals process, as many such appeals will be heard only once the criminal is back in their home country. It cannot be right that criminals who should be deported can remain here and build up a further claim to a settled life in the UK. As well as reducing the number of appeals, we propose to simplify the process. An appeal to an immigration judge is a very costly and time-consuming way to correct simple case working errors which could be resolved by a request to the Home Office to review the decision – this is what we already do overseas for millions of visa applicants. Applicants will be able to contact the Home Office and ask for a simple administrative review to remedy case working errors. This can resolve errors in decisions cheaply and quickly – within 28 days. This is substantially quicker than the average 12 weeks it currently takes to appeal via the Tribunal and all the costs this incurs. The Bill creates an effective and efficient appeals system. This will ensure that the process cannot be abused or manipulated to delay the removal of those who have no basis to remain in the UK but it still provides an opportunity to challenge a decision where fundamental rights are concerned. Foreign criminals The public are fed up with cases where foreign criminals are allowed to stay, because of an overly generous interpretation of Article 8 - the right to respect for family and private life - by the courts. Under the current system the winners are foreign criminals and immigration lawyers and the losers are the victims of those crimes and the law-abiding public. The Government first sought to address this issue by changing the Immigration Rules in July 2012, with the intention of shifting the weight the courts give to the public interest. This House debated and approved the new Rules which set out the factors in favour of deportation and the factors against. The courts accept that the new Rules provide a complete code for considering Article 8, where we are deporting foreign criminals. However, some judges have still chosen to ignore the will of Parliament and go on putting the law on the side of foreign criminals instead of the public. So I am sending a very clear message to those judges – Parliament wants the law on the people’s side, the public wants the law on the people’s side, and this government will put the law on the people’s side once and for all. This Bill will require the courts to put the public interest at the heart of their decisions. Part 3 of the Bill is about migrants’ access to services. We want to ensure that only legal migrants have access to the labour market, health services, housing, bank accounts and driving licences. This is not just about making the UK a more hostile place for illegal migrants - it is also about fairness. Those who play by the rules and work hard do not want to see businesses gaining an unfair advantage through the exploitation of illegal labour. They don’t want to see our valuable public services - paid for by the taxpayer - used and abused by illegal migrants. Access to services Honourable Members will all know that the right of non-EEA nationals to work in the UK is restricted; and where the right to work is granted it may be restricted to a particular employer or limited hours. Employers are required to ensure that their employees have the right to work in the UK. If they do not, they will face penalties. But the process for enforcing these fines is complicated. The Bill will streamline this, making employers think again before hiring illegal labour. Let me turn to the NHS. Many temporary migrants are currently allowed access to the NHS for free – as if they were permanent residents. This approach is extremely generous, particularly when you compare it with wider international practice. Our intention is to bring the rules regulating migrant access to the NHS into line with wider government policy on migrants’ access to benefits and social housing. That means restricting access to free NHS care to those non-EEA nationals with indefinite leave to remain and those granted refugee status or humanitarian protection in the UK. Under this Bill, other migrants will have to contribute. Migrants and NHS Temporary migrants seeking to stay in the UK for more than 6 months will have to pay an immigration health surcharge, on top of their visa fee. I can assure the House that this surcharge will make the system fairer, and it will not undermine our aim of attracting the brightest and the best. We have carefully examined what other countries do and will ensure the UK offer is a competitive one in a tough global market. Dealing with migrants is not new for the NHS. There is already a framework for charging other countries. The NHS must enforce this and recover the cost of treating foreign nationals from foreign governments. And, all of us in government will work with them to make the system work. The government also wants to ensure that illegal immigrants cannot hide in private rented housing. We are already working with councils to tackle rogue landlords. Rogues who provide ‘beds in sheds’ and illegal overcrowded accommodation. Under the Bill, we will go further and have the necessary powers to deal with rogue landlords who rent homes to illegal migrants. Of course, many private landlords already make checks on a tenant’s identity and credit status, making it difficult for illegal migrants to rent properties from them. But not all landlords do this. So we propose to replicate the long-standing requirements for employers to check the immigration status of those that they are about to employ. We’re not asking landlords to become immigration experts. Those that undertake simple steps will have nothing to fear, and there will not be a penalty. Rogue landlords will face penalties, hitting them where it hurts – their wallets. This will make it harder for landlords to house illegal immigrants, and harder for illegal immigrants to settle in the UK. Proportionate approach This is not excessive regulation. It is a proportionate approach to a significant problem. And we have listened very carefully to those who have warned us of the consequences of not doing this properly. We will make it easy for homeless and vulnerable people to prove their entitlement through simple documentary requirements. We will have a statutory code of practice making it clear that if landlords racially discriminate they will be breaking the law. And we will exempt those parts of the housing market, such as homeless hostels and student halls of residence, where further regulation would not be appropriate. The Immigration Bill will also introduce new rules to crack down on illegal migrants accessing banking products and services in the UK. Many illegal immigrants are already prevented from opening bank accounts thanks to existing identification and fraud requirements. However, there is no specific rule to stop illegal migrants from opening an account in the UK. This Bill will require banks and building societies, for the first time, to refuse a customer who wishes to open a new current account when they have been identified as an illegal immigrant. Having tackled the ability of illegal migrants to work, access healthcare, rent property, and open bank accounts, I also want to ensure that illegal migrants are denied driving licences. The Bill will give legislative force to the current administrative practice. But the measures go further, giving us the power to revoke licences. We will do everything we can to make it harder for illegal migrants to establish a settled life in the UK when they have no right to be here. Sham marriages Part 4 of the Bill tackles sham marriages and sham civil partnerships – undertaken by a fraudulent couple for their own immigration advantage. The Home Office estimates that, every year, between 4,000 to 10,000 applications to stay in the UK are made on the basis of a sham marriage or sham civil partnership. Registration officials already have a duty to report suspected sham marriages and sham civil partnerships to the Home Office. The number of reports of suspected sham cases has risen in recent years, with 1,891 reports received in 2012. At the moment we have the ridiculous situation where we cannot always stop a marriage or civil partnership that a registrar believes to be a sham. The current 15 day notice period provides very little time for the Home Office to act before the ceremony takes place. This Bill will increase the marriage and civil partnership notice period to 28 days in England and Wales. It also allows for it to be extended to 70 days where we have reasonable grounds to suspect that a marriage or civil partnership is a sham. The Home Office will investigate the genuineness of the couple’s relationship and consider taking immigration enforcement action where we believe it to be a sham. If the couple do not comply with the investigation, we will stop a marriage from taking place. Should a sham marriage or civil partnership go ahead, couples will not gain an immigration advantage. They will be removed or prosecuted. Fixing immigration system Mr Speaker, fixing the immigration system is not something that can be done overnight. There were too many problems with the system that we inherited for that to be possible. However, this Bill will help us further along that road. It is frankly ridiculous that the Government has to operate such a complex system to deal with foreigners who fail to abide by our laws. It is ridiculous that the odds are stacked in favour of illegal migrants. It is unacceptable that hard working taxpayers have to compete with people who have no right to be here. This Bill will begin to address these absurdities and restore the balance. I commend this Bill to the House. Share this page * Share on Facebook * Share on Twitter Published: 22 October 2013 Organisation: Home Office Policy: Securing borders and reducing immigration Minister: The Rt Hon Theresa May MP Is there anything wrong with this page? 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Find out more about cookies Tell us what you think of GOV.UK No thanks Take the 3 minute survey This will open a short survey on another website Speech Prime Minister's speech on immigration Organisations: Cabinet Office and Prime Minister's Office, 10 Downing Street Delivered on: 10 October 2011 (Transcript of the speech, exactly as it was delivered) Page history: Published 10 October 2011 Minister: The Rt Hon David Cameron MP A transcript of Prime Minister David Cameron's speech on immigration, given on 10 October 2011. The Rt Hon David Cameron MP Prime Minister Thank you very much, Andrew, for that introduction and thank you for the welcome to the Institute for Government. We’re enjoying working with you, particularly on education policy where you did so much under the last government to advance the cause of academy schools and independents within the state sector, something this government has taken up with alacrity and we want to continue working on that. But today I want to talk about what we are doing to get a grip on immigration in our country. I know the sense out there is that mass migration is inevitable in a globalised society and a modern economy and, as a result, it’s just all too difficult for one country to control its own borders. Added to that, with migration from the EU to worry about as well, people feel powerless to address half the problem anyway. But today I’m going to argue how I believe this government can act in a way that will genuinely tackle the problem and avoid the dangers that opponents of reform have put forward. First, we need to be clear about what the problem is and I know this is an issue that people feel really passionately about and I know the debate around immigration is not always a healthy one. It often swings between extremes, between those who argue strongly that migration is an unalloyed good, vital for our economic success and those who say it completely undermines our economy because immigrants come and take all our jobs. The debate rages between those who attack caution about immigration as somehow racist and xenophobic and those who plead that our communities just can’t cope with the demands of ever greater numbers flooding in. I have a very clear view about this issue. I’ve never shied away from talking about immigration. I called for reform and clear limits in opposition and I am determined to deliver on this agenda in government. So let me tell you how I see it. Yes, some immigration is a good thing. It is right that we should attract the brightest and the best to Britain. We genuinely need foreign investors and entrepreneurs to come here. In the same way that many people take advantage of opportunities to work and study and live overseas, many of our own communities here have been enriched by the contribution of generations of migrants. Our schools and universities have some of the best teachers, researchers and students from all over the world and we should be proud of that. Our hospitals are full of talented doctors and nurses caring for the sick and vulnerable. Our high streets are home to entrepreneurs who are not just adding to the local economy but playing a vital part in local life. And yes, Britain will always be open to those who are seeking asylum from persecution. That says something very important about the kind of country we are and we should be proud of that too. But excessive immigration brings pressures, real pressures on our communities up and down the country. Pressures on schools, housing and healthcare and social pressures too. When large numbers of people arrive in new neighbourhoods, perhaps not all able to speak the same language as those who live there, perhaps not always wanting to integrate, perhaps seeking simply to take advantage of our NHS, paid for by our taxpayers, there is a discomfort and tension in some of our communities. And crucially, while it is crude and wrong to say that immigrants come to Britain to take all our jobs, there’s no doubt that badly controlled immigration has compounded the failure of our welfare system and effectively allowed governments and employers to carry on with the waste of people stuck on welfare when they should be working. And there is also the concern that relatively uncontrolled immigration can hurt the low paid and the low skilled while the better off reap many of the benefits. So I think it’s absolutely right to address all of these concerns, because if people don’t feel that mainstream political parties understand these issues they will turn instead to those who seek to exploit these issues to create social unrest. And there’s an even bigger reason for addressing immigration too. It’s about fairness, real fairness – fairness for people already living here, working here, contributing here who worry about finding work, getting a good school for their children and affording a good house. For too long they’ve been overlooked in this debate and it is time to do right by them. So what does all this mean? Well, put simply, yes, we need immigration, but it needs to be controlled. We need to have control over how many people come here and who, but the reality is we’ve inherited a system where we don’t really have control over either. The figures for people coming to Britain are really quite huge: 575,000 people came here last year intending to stay for a year or more. Now, of course, it’s right that when many people are choosing to live abroad and when some migrants stay for a period but then return home we should, in my view, have a clear eye on net migration (the difference between people leaving and people coming) but this has been rising too. In 2008, net migration was about 163,000; in 2009, 198,000; and in the data published earlier this summer, the 2010 figure is a staggering 239,000. There are early signs in the most recent figures that the reforms this government has brought in are beginning to reduce the overall figure, but these very high numbers are why I believe we’ve had a worrying collapse in public confidence in our ability to control inward migration. And at the heart of all of this I believe is the complete failure of the points-based system to control migration. Now, the points-based system sounded great in principle, but the very term ‘points-based system’ has proved to be misleading. The rhetoric implies that each and every potential migrant is carefully and individually assessed with only those scoring the most points able to enter the country, but the reality was very different. Instead of a system of points for individuals there were a range of low minimum thresholds where anyone who met them was automatically entitled to come, almost on a self-selection basis, to work and study and, in many cases, to bring their dependants too. Take tier one of the points-based system, for example. This was for so-called highly skilled migrants. Now, this was sold as bringing in the best of the best, people with extraordinary skills and qualifications who were going to help drive economic growth. They were so good that they didn’t need to have a specific job offer before they came here; the door, if you like, was permanently open to them. That was the rhetoric, but what was the reality? The reality was that someone with a modest salary and a Bachelor’s degree in any subject from any college in the world could come over here and do any job they liked and, of course, the system was a magnet for fraudsters. Plenty never found work at all. One study showed that about a third of those sampled only found low-skilled roles working as shop assistants, in takeaways or as security guards. So when this government came to office, we ignored the rhetoric, we looked hard at the reality and we simply closed down the whole of the tier one general route and we did this without any complaint from business. Take the next tier, tier two: this was for migrants coming here who did actually have job offers. Now, large numbers of this group were actually coming to do low-level work which many people have rightly felt those on welfare in the UK should actually be trained for, but instead these jobs were going to migrants. Tier three, albeit never opened, was explicitly for those with no skills. Now, the fact that this tier was even created I think tells you everything you need to know about the so-called selectivity of the system we inherited. And tier four allowed those with a place at college to come to the UK even if the college was extremely low-level or, worse, bogus, not really a college at all, and this still applied to students who spoke no English. This was a system where the migrants got the choice to come rather than us having the choice of migrants. And it was a system which was also totally unfair, which people rightly feel added to the sense that there was a ‘something for nothing’ order to the day. So we simply could not carry on like this. So today I want to set out the new approach this government is taking to control immigration into this country. An approach that ensures a hard-headed selection of genuinely talented individuals based on our national interest; people who will really contribute to this country and drive the economic growth on which we all depend. But an approach that imposes tough limits, not weak minimum thresholds, real tests of skill and potential, not thousands of people box-ticking their way into the UK. In short, a system that actually controls immigration for the good of this country; one that doesn’t just sound tough, but is tough. Now, there are four areas to focus on if we’re really going to start controlling how many people come here and who they are Those four areas are: work visas, students, family migrants and illegal immigration. We need to address all of them. What I’m saying today is not the final word and I want to pay tribute to the Home Secretary and to Damian Green for the brilliant and dedicated work they’ve already done, working with others across government, but much more hard work lies ahead. Today, I want to set out some of the areas where we now need to go further in tackling abuse and ensuring that immigration is controlled. Immigration needs to be controlled and I’m absolutely focused on this. So let me start with those who come here to work. As a coalition government we agree about the importance of controlling immigration, but our approach has rightly focused on how to do this without damaging business or discouraging inward investment in to the UK. So, in April, we introduced a limit on the number of economic migrants able to come to the UK from outside the European Economic Area. Now, many people predicted that this wouldn’t work and that it would stop British businesses getting the workers they need, but the evidence shows this hasn’t been the case. That limit of 20,700 for the year has been undersubscribed each and every month since it was introduced, with businesses currently using less than half of their monthly quotas. That provides the opportunity to consider with business what further tightening of the system may be possible without undermining growth and we’ll be asking the Migration Advisory Committee to look into this whole area again and to reconsider whether the limit is set at the right level. But we’ve not just added a blanket limit. We’ve begun to be much more selective not just about how many people come in, but about who comes in. Britain is one of the most open economies and open societies in the world and we want the best and the brightest to come here: the investors and the entrepreneurs who will create the businesses and the jobs of tomorrow and the scientists who will help keep Britain at the heart of the great advances in medicine, biotech, advanced manufacturing and communications. These people deserve the red-carpet treatment and that is what we’ll give them. So we’ve actually increased the opportunities for foreign investors and entrepreneurs to come here, issuing 196 visas to entrepreneurs in the first half of this year, on track to be more than what we did last year. We’ve opened a new pathway for those of exceptional talent, nominated by the likes of the Royal Society and the Arts Council and, in future, we’ll make it easier for angel investors to back foreign entrepreneurs, people who are starting small scale but may end up running the blue-chip businesses of tomorrow. We’ve also listened very carefully to business over inter-company transfers, ensuring that multinational companies with a presence here can bring in their skilled managers and specialists, because attracting top business investment to Britain is a fundamental part of our strategy for economic growth. But we also want to do more to encourage employers to take on British workers. On the advice of the Migration Advisory Committee we’ve reduced the number of jobs that can be offered to migrants, including jobs like care workers and chefs, but I want us to go further. Over the last decade, millions of new jobs have been created in Britain, but one of the problems has been large numbers of people have come to the UK and successfully found work. In fact, some estimates suggest that around two-thirds of the increase in employment since 1997 was accounted for by foreign-born workers. Even now people are managing to come to the UK and find a job, yet throughout all those years we consistently had between four and five million people on out-of-work benefits. Now, I completely understand this from the employers’ point of view. Confronted by a failing welfare system, shortcomings in parts of our education system and an open-door immigration system they were able to choose between a disillusioned and demotivated person on benefits here in the UK or an Eastern European with the get up and go to come across a continent to find work. Or they could choose between an inexperienced school leaver here or someone five years older coming to Britain with the experience they need. But that situation is simply not good enough and we do have to change things. Going down the high street, you can’t fail to notice the pride that employers have in British products. I want to see the day when they have the same pride in the British workforce, and where there’s a culture where companies feel positively encouraged to explain how many people they’ve helped off welfare and into work. That is why we’re addressing the shortcomings in the education system so there are plenty of people with the right skills entering the labour market. It’s why we’re getting a proper grip on immigration controls and it’s why we’re reforming the welfare system with proper conditions for those on benefits and a work programme that offers real support to get people off benefits and into work, re-motivating the long-term unemployed, making them believe they can work again. And also, crucially, matching individuals to employers and giving those young people real experience of work or a proper preparation for the places where jobs can be found. Not discriminating against those from other countries, but making sure that the British option with the local knowledge that an employer needs is once again the best option. Now, Jobcentre Plus and work programme providers are already hard at work helping the unemployed into work. We’re now putting in place the systems we’ll be using to track their success and we’re going to look at new ways to encourage employers to do even more including through a national awards scheme to recognise organisations that excel in getting people into work. So we make sure that this time it is the long-term British unemployed who reap the benefits of growth in the labour market. Now second, let me turn to students. The concern in this area was that properly controlling migration would somehow damage our prestigious universities, higher education institutions and colleges. A vital part of a sector – further and higher education – that should be a key driver of growth in a country and which in Britain is already a respected world leader. Now through carefully made coalition policy we’ve managed to ensure there’s nothing to stop genuine students applying to study here. We’re working with the sector to encourage the brightest and best students from around the world to come and study and we intend over the next year to step up efforts to attract a greater share of the best globally mobile business school and other postgraduate talent to come to the UK. We need to be absolutely clear in this whole debate: we want these top students to come here. We can’t have world-class education if our institutions are closed to the outside world. Our education exports are worth more than £14 billion a year. International students, postgraduates, researchers – they bring tremendous benefits to this country and they make an enormous contribution to the intellectual vibrancy and diversity of our educational institutions. But when it comes to bogus colleges and bogus students we have to be equally clear. They have no place in our country. In June last year in New Delhi for example, more than a third of student applications, verified by the visa section, were found to contain forged documents. Private colleges now have to face far more rigorous checks on the quality of their education provision before they can sponsor international students. Since May 2010 the UK Border Agency has revoked the licences of 97 education providers. A further 36 currently have their licences suspended and 340 institutions will be prevented from bringing in new non-EU students after failing to apply to the relevant bodies who will oversee the quality and standards of education providers. Now this represents just over 30 per cent of the privately funded institutions previously on the UK Border Agency’s register, including so-called colleges that have been undermining the good reputation of the whole sector by bringing in thousands of bogus students. And not only have there been bogus and low-quality students coming to bogus and low-quality colleges, there have been a huge number of people bringing dependants under the pretext of studying. Some people in the past used the student visa route simply so their spouses or families could come and work in the UK, but there are now clear restrictions for all students on working and bringing dependants and we’ll continue to ensure the foreign students coming in will be genuinely high quality students who we really want and who can make a meaningful contribution to our economy. Now, the third area is around family migration. Now of course in the modern world where people travel and communicate more easily than ever before and where families have connections across the globe, people of course want to move to different countries to be with loved ones. We all understand this human instinct but we need to make sure for their sake as well as ours that those who come through this route are genuinely coming for family reasons, that they can speak English and that they have the resources they need to live here and make a contribution here, not just to scrape by – or worse, to subsist on benefits. Now last year family migration accounted for almost a fifth of total non-EU migration to the UK with nearly 50,000 visas granted to family members of British citizens and those with permanent residents here in the UK. So this is a vital area that we cannot ignore if we want to control immigration effectively. We’ve been consulting on how to ensure those who come to the UK as family migrants are supported without becoming a burden on the taxpayer. We’ll be bringing forward firm proposals shortly but a sample of more than 500 family migration cases found that over 70 per cent of UK-based sponsors had post-tax earnings of less than £20,000 a year. Now, when the income level of the sponsor is this low there is an obvious risk that the migrants and their family will become a significant burden on the welfare system and on the taxpayer. So we’ve asked the Migration Advisory Committee to look at the case for increasing the minimum level for appropriate maintenance. And we’re going to look at further measures to ensure financial independence, discounting promises of support from family and friends and whether a financial bond would be appropriate in some cases. We’re also consulting on how to tackle abuse of the system to make sure that family migrants who come here are in a genuine relationship with their partner. Time and again visa officers receive applications from spouses or partners sponsoring another spouse or partner soon after being granted settlement in the UK, suggesting the original marriage or partnership was simply a sham designed to get them permanent residence here. For example there was a Pakistani national who applied for a spouse visa on the basis of his marriage to someone settled in the UK. He got indefinite leave to remain then immediately divorced his UK-based spouse, returned to Pakistan, remarried and then applied for entry clearance for his new spouse. We simply cannot sit back and allow the system to be abused in this way. So we will make migrants wait longer to show they’re in really genuine relationships before they can get settlement and we’ll also impose stricter and clearer tests on the genuineness of relationships including the ability to speak the same language and know each other’s circumstances. We’ll also end the ridiculous situation where a registrar who knows a marriage is a sham still has to perform the ceremony. Now, of course the most grotesque example of a relationship that isn’t genuine is a forced marriage, which is of course completely different from an arranged marriage where both partners consent, or a sham marriage where the aim is to circumvent immigration control or make a financial gain. Forced marriage is little more than slavery. To force someone into marriage is completely wrong and I strongly believe this is a problem we should not shy away from addressing because of some cultural concerns. I know there’s a worry that criminalisation could make it less likely that those at risk will come forward, but as a first step I’m announcing today that we will criminalise the breach of forced marriage prevention orders. It is ridiculous that an order made to stop a forced marriage isn’t enforced with the full rigour of the criminal law. I’m also asking the Home Secretary to consult on making forcing someone to marry an offence in its own right, working closely with those who provide support to women forced into marriage to make sure that such a step would not prevent or hinder them from reporting what has happened to them. We’re also going to rewrite the immigration rules to reinforce the public interest in seeing foreign criminals and immigration offenders removed from this country and help prevent Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights being misinterpreted. Now, of course immigration is not just about people coming to live here for a while. Some will want to settle and then join us as fellow British citizens, but it’s become too easy to come to work and then to stay on. It was virtually an automatic progress between one and the other. So we are going to break the link between work and settlement. Only those who contribute the most economically will be able to stay and we’re consulting the Migration Advisory Committee on how best to do this. Citizenship should be a big deal for them and for us. I’ve been to the citizenship ceremonies, they are moving, they do work, but here too changes are needed. So let me say one more thing about this journey to becoming a British citizen. We’re going to change the British citizenship test. There’s a whole chapter in the citizenship handbook on British history but incredibly there are no questions on British history on the actual test. Instead, you’ll find questions on the roles and powers of the main institutions of Europe and indeed on the benefits system within the UK, so we’re going to revise the whole test and put British history and culture at the heart of it. We’ve also got to do much better on the final group I want to talk about today, which is illegal immigration. We’ve got to be much better at finding these people and getting them out of our country. We’ve already made some big changes, telling credit reference agencies about illegal immigrants so they can’t get easy access to credit. We’ve ensured the UK Border Agency and HMRC work more closely together to come down hard on rogue businesses which use illegal labour to evade tax and minimum wage laws, and we’re creating biometric residence permits which are just like a biometric passport to give employers much greater certainty over who they’re employing and their right to be in the country. A targeted campaign this summer has seen more than 600 operations and over 550 arrests. I want everyone in the country to help with this, including by reporting suspected illegal immigrants to our Border Agency through the Crimestoppers phone line or the Border Agency website. Together I do believe we can reclaim our borders and send illegal immigrants home. So that is how we’re going to get a grip of immigration in this country: real limits, proper enforcement, real control over how many people come here and who they are. And if we take the steps set out today and deal with all the different avenues of migration – legal and illegal – then levels of immigration can return to where they were in the 1980s and 1990s, a time when immigration was not a front-ranked political issue. And I believe that will mean that net migration to this country will be in the order of tens of thousands each year, not the hundreds of thousands every year that we’ve seen over the last decade. How do we know when we’re getting immigration right? I would argue it’s when we’re getting the right people we need for our economy and when all those who come here do so for genuine reasons and join with the rest of society in making our country stronger, richer and more secure. That is the kind of immigration I want and that is the kind of immigration this government will deliver. Thank you very much for listening and coming today. Question Prime Minister, on the business visas you said that so far they’d been undersubscribed and that might be a good reason to cut the limits, but we’re not exactly going through an economic boom time at the moment. Is this a good moment to set our level for how many migrants we want coming in? Prime Minister I think this is why we have the Migration Advisory Committee to advise us about the figures, but what’s interesting is that if you go back to the debates that we had in the country but also within government about setting a tough limit on migration levels for economic purposes from outside the EU. A lot of people argued that this was going to be a real restraint on business; actually it hasn’t turned out to be the case at all. You know, we’ve abolished the tier one completely – that was people with a degree able to come in and work, that’s gone. I haven’t heard any complaints from business about that. In terms of putting a cap – a limit – on people coming in with a specific job offer, we’ve put that in place. Those caps haven’t been breached. Business specifically asked us to be generous over intercompany transfers and we’ve done that. So what I’m trying to say today is, you know, those who say you can’t control immigration without damaging the economy, that this is a forlorn hope, I really believe that’s wrong. We can control immigration. We can do it in a way that doesn’t damage the economy and I think that’s what the figures so far prove. But we will always be pragmatic and sensible, listening to business opinion as we go about this vitally important work. Question Why have you changed your mind about this criminalisation on forced marriages because I understand that at one stage that had been rejected? And if I could just ask about Liam Fox – given that the ministerial code says that ministers should avoid even the appearance of a potential conflict of interest, doesn’t that at least amount to a breach of that code and shouldn’t you order a proper inquiry into whether that has been broken? Prime Minister First of all on forced marriages, I remain absolutely clear forced marriages are completely wrong. I want to use everything in our power to stop the appalling extent of this practice. So again, we’ve got to be pragmatic. What will work? What will stop more forced marriages in Britain? What will bring the perpetrators to justice? What will make this something that’s just unacceptable in our country? Now those involved in this area – voluntary bodies and others – do warn that if you go straight to criminalisation of the whole edifice you could actually get less people coming forward because they don’t want to shop their parents effectively. So I think the right approach here is to ramp up the pressure and start using the elements of the criminal law. So we’re saying here we’re going to criminalise anyone who breaches a forced marriages order. I don’t rule out further change in the future. I’m pushing this as hard as I can to really get to the best possible answer so we make forced marriages something that simply doesn’t exist in the UK – and it shouldn’t. In a civilised country in the 21st century, it’s a completely unacceptable practice. On the issue of Liam Fox and the ministerial code, Liam I thought gave a very good explanation yesterday where he said he’d made mistakes, that he’d got some things wrong, he was apologetic about that. He made a statement last night and he’ll be answering questions in the House of Commons. Ursula Brennan’s report will be published this morning and along with that the next steps that we’re going to take to answer all of the questions that exist which I know Liam wants to do and I want him to do too. Let me just say that as Prime Minister, I see Liam as someone who has been a very effective Defence Secretary. He gives that department good leadership; I think what’s happened in Libya is proof of his abilities – his department’s abilities – and so I’m sure that we can answer these questions and come through all of this. One can’t rush these things. You know, I thought John Major was quite right at the weekend to say that important elements of natural justice you have to show as a Prime Minister and give people the time to answer questions, to unearth the information necessary to do that and one can’t run these things to some sort of pre-ordained media timetable. So that’s not what I’m going to do. I think it’s right that Liam is giving this explanation and he has my full support as he does so. Question Prime Minister – quick yes or no question first. Have you ever taken your best man on a business trip? Prime Minister I had two best men actually and I don’t think I’ve taken either of them on a business trip. Follow Up Question I would respectfully suggest that the reason you haven’t done that is because the potential for a conflict of interest would be so glaring that you wouldn’t even think of it and people would say that your judgement was bizarre and extremely questionable. For all these reasons, surely Liam Fox’s position is untenable? Prime Minister Well, I think, with respect, what you’re doing is just sort of jumping ahead of everything. I think Liam gave a good explanation last night. He also apologised for the mistakes that he’s made. He’s answering questions in the House of Commons today. I think it is only fair to allow someone time to answer those questions and to give their explanation and not immediately to leap to judgement. It’s very important – the public want to know that nothing improper has been done; that proper explanations are given; that if there have been mistakes there are apologies. All of those things need to happen but we have to give it a bit of time to make sure we get these things right otherwise you just get trial by the media. Question Prime Minister, I must ask you something on immigration as well. On immigration, do you really believe that we can get back to the levels of the 1980s and net migration when the EU’s expanded to 27 countries and surely for as long as this country remains an attractive proposition in terms of work and opportunity, we’re going to see those net migration figures higher than in the 1980s? And on Dr Fox, we know that you’ve said in your view he’s doing an excellent job as Secretary of State for Defence; we know that you think we shouldn’t leap to conclusions until the facts are known, but are you not disappointed that he’s put himself into this ridiculous position and how concerned are you – and how concerned should we be – that he has shown such extraordinary naivety at the very least? Prime Minister On the first question, the point about believing we can get to a situation with net migration as we had at the end of the 1980s and 1990s when it wasn’t a political issue because the pressures and the numbers weren’t so great, if you look in recent years the balance of migration within the EU between Britain and the EU has been relatively in balance. Not every year, but relatively in balance – i.e. the number of British people going to live and work in Spain or elsewhere in Europe has been balanced by the number of people coming in. The large net migration flow into the UK has predominantly been caused by migration from outside of the EU and that is something we are able to control. It’s not easy to do it, you do have to look at all the areas I’ve said – student visas, family reunion, work visas, illegal immigration – you have to look at all of those things but it is possible to do it if you have the political will and the talented ministerial team and the dedication to sort of get on top of the figures. I was at Heathrow with Damian Green this morning and what you hear from the UK Border Agency staff is so often when you try and control one avenue of migration you find that other avenues start to grow. So this is not a piece of work you just do, announce, pass through Parliament and walk away; it’s something in the modern world you have to be on top of all of the time and Damian and I are going to make sure that is the case. On the issue of Liam, I think I’ve said all I can say today. I think it’s right to allow him to answer these questions, to give his explanation, to apologise where necessary – and he has already done that – to look at Ursula Brennan’s report, to work out what further questions need to be answered and steps need to be taken. As I say, you can’t rush this process because there’s more information required, more detail needed in order to give the best answer to these questions. But in the meantime, as someone who has given great service to the government and country, someone who is a good Defence Secretary, a valued member of my team, I think he deserves to have my support while we answer these questions and get this piece of work done. And I’m determined to avoid trying to have artificial deadlines imposed on this and try to make sure that we deal with it in a rational and sensible way rather than reacting to every last story that comes out about this because I’m sure there’s more to be explained and to come forward and explanations to be given. And I think that it should be done in a sensible and ordered way which is what I’m determined to do. Share this page * Share on Facebook * Share on Twitter Published: 10 October 2011 Organisations: Cabinet Office Prime Minister's Office, 10 Downing Street Minister: The Rt Hon David Cameron MP Is there anything wrong with this page? Help us improve GOV.UK Please don't include any personal or financial information, for example your National Insurance or credit card numbers. 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Find out more about cookies Tell us what you think of GOV.UK No thanks Take the 3 minute survey This will open a short survey on another website News story Immigration Bill laid in Parliament Organisation: Home Office Page history: Published 10 October 2013 Policy: Securing borders and reducing immigration Topic: Borders and immigration Minister: Mark Harper MP New legislation to ensure Britain's immigration system is fair to those who play by the rules while cracking down on people breaking the law has been introduced by the Home Office. Immigration Bill laid in Parliament The Home Office introduced new legislation today (Thursday 10 October) to reform immigration laws, ensuring our immigration system is fair to hard-working people and legal migrants, while cracking down on those here illegally. The Immigration Bill will stop migrants using public services where they are not entitled to do so, reduce the pull factors which encourage people to come to the UK and make it easier to remove people who should not be here. The Bill will: * cut the number of decisions that can be appealed from 17 to four — preserving appeals for those asserting fundamental rights * extend the number of non-suspensive appeals. Where there is no risk of serious irreversible harm, we should deport foreign criminals first and hear their appeal later * ensure the courts have regard to Parliament’s view of what the public interest requires when considering Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights in immigration cases * restrict the ability of immigration detainees to apply repeatedly for bail if they have previously been refused it * require private landlords to check the immigration status of their tenants, to prevent those with no right to live in the UK from accessing private rented housing * make it easier for the Home Office to recover unpaid civil penalties * introduce a new requirement for temporary migrants, for example overseas students, who have only a time-limited immigration status to make a contribution to the National Health Service * require banks to check against a database of known immigration offenders before opening bank accounts * introduce new powers to check driving licence applicants’ immigration status before issuing a licence and revoking licences where immigrants are found to have overstayed in the UK * clamp down on people who try to gain an immigration advantage by entering into a sham marriage or civil partnership Immigration Bill laid in Parliament Immigration Minister Mark Harper said: The Immigration Bill will stop migrants using public services to which they are not entitled, reduce the pull factors which encourage people to come to the UK and make it easier to remove people who should not be here. We will continue to welcome the brightest and best migrants who want to contribute to our economy and society and play by the rules. But the law must be on the side of people who respect it, not those who break it. Our reforms are working. Immigration is down by almost a fifth since its peak in 2010 and net migration is down by a third. The Immigration Rules have already been reformed to cut out abuse where it was rife while at the same time maintaining the UK’s position as an attractive place to live and work for the brightest and best migrants. But there is still more to do. The Immigration Minister continued: This government has successfully cut net immigration to Britain by a third since 2010. The Immigration Bill is the next step in our reforms. Hard-working people expect and deserve an immigration system that is fair to British citizens and legitimate migrants and tough on those who abuse the system and flout the law. Share this page * Share on Facebook * Share on Twitter Published: 10 October 2013 Organisation: Home Office Policy: Securing borders and reducing immigration Minister: Mark Harper MP Is there anything wrong with this page? Help us improve GOV.UK Please don't include any personal or financial information, for example your National Insurance or credit card numbers. What you were doing ____________________What went wrong ____________________ (BUTTON) Send Services and information * Driving and transport * Benefits * Businesses and self-employed * Employing people * Passports, travel and living abroad * Education and learning * Working, jobs and pensions * Housing and local services * Crime, justice and the law * Money and tax * Births, deaths, marriages and care * Disabled people * Citizenship and life in the UK Departments and policy * How government works * Departments * Worldwide * Topics * Policies * Publications * Announcements Support links * Help * Cookies * Contact * Cymraeg * Built by the Government Digital Service OGL All content is available under the Open Government Licence v2.0, except where otherwise stated © Crown Copyright Home * Press * Need Advice? * Follow our work Migrants' Rights Network (MRN) [search.gif] Search this Sit Go Skip to Navigation Check out other blogs Blog What hasn't been making the news from Parliament? Only a small fraction of what parliamentarians discuss in parliament is reported in the national press - particularly when public attention and debate has been so focused on the numbers of immigrants coming to the UK and the government’s controversial programme aimed at reducing net immigration. March 18, 2013 BY Awale Olad Explore More * government policy * Share/Save Tweet Since November 2012 the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Migration has been tweeting about these ongoing developments under the @APPGMigration account. The main purpose of the twitter account is to highlight the ongoing parliamentary questions and debates happening in parliament, while also keeping news from the group’s activities in the twittersphere. The account has a mixture of followers from cross-party parliamentary figures, national news reporters, academics, trade unions, think tanks, businesses, to private individuals. So what have been some of the recent developments within parliament on immigration which we’ve picked up on the APPG Migration twitter feed in recent months? The immigration minister Mark Harper MP in recent months has made a number of statements on asylum, trafficking, the EU and bilateral visa arrangements with third countries. In October 2012, he announced that Syrian nationals could remain in the UK if their visa expires due to the civil unrest in their country. Later that month he outlined the work the UK was doing to tackle criminal gangs in the first annual report of the cross-department work on human trafficking in the UK. House of Commons Chamber ^Photo: Parliament UK (Flickr) Interestingly, with debate raging on about potential UK repatriation of powers from the European Union, Mark Harper signed the UK up to two further agreements, which include the Eurodac fingerprinting database to determine the origins of asylum claims and readmission agreements between the EU and Turkey to tackle the flow of irregular migration. This is amid the backdrop of Conservative backbench MP Stewart Jackson winning cross-party support in the same month for his EU Freedom of Movement Disapplication Bill. Furthermore Harper gave evidence to the House of Lords Select Committee on the European Union and refused to commit to supporting bilateral aid to Southern EU member-states, however, he committed the UK to the same initiative in January 2013. In November 2012 Harper tabled a statement making substantial changes to the immigration rules and earlier this year put forward a further statement announcing the UK’s work with EU counterparts on reducing net migration while making another statement on the entrepreneur route of entry to highlight and tackle abuse in the system. He opted the UK out of readmission agreements with Cape Verde and announced that Kuwaiti, Syrian, and Palestinian asylum seekers would be subject to further language testing. On the last day of February 2013, Harper reaffirmed the UK’s commitment to allowing Syrians who are legally in the UK to extend their stay while the violent conflict continued in their country. And in early March he proposed more ‘user-friendly’ codes of practice for employers seeking to recruit skilled migrant workers. Harper has also launched a month-long consultation on tackling those who supply false documents to irregular migrants by proposing to make illegal the supply of ‘highly specialist printing equipment’ to possible fraudsters. He continued his fight to secure the UK’s borders against ‘undocumented passengers’ by launching a second consultation on increasing charges on the transport sector (mainly carriers) if they bring in an irregular migrant and waiving any charges or fees if they hand over migrants who are likely to be undocumented. All of this shows that, behind the vigorous public debate about the levels of immigration to the UK, there are ongoing developments within parliament which also need to be scrutinized and the implications explored by migrants’ rights advocates. You can follow the APPG on Migration for the latest tweets on questions, statements, and debates from parliament at @APPGMigration. Other users went on to read: __________________________________________________________________ Seasons Greetings to all, and here's my 2013 in immigration books...... December 23, 2013 Conservative MPs slug it out at ‘rag, tag, and bobtail’ Westminster Hall debate December 20, 2013 International Migrants Day 2013: Today is Our Day and we celebrate it in solidarity with all migrants! December 18, 2013 Comments Lonely husband says: March 18, 2013 You flee from Syria in fear of your life ... and then there is language testing? Is this for real? Colin says: March 20, 2013 My wife who has mainly lived in Australia for 45 years moving here when Australia needed imigrants the bulk coming from the UK and still today with a deal between Australia and the UK.Our lifestyles being very much the same even sport such as cricket rugby and also the food were much the same. In 1971 we moved to Scotland for 2 years and had our second child born in the UK as my mother was getting older and only ever seen only one grand child up to that time. so we packed up and came back to Australia so my mom could see both of her grandchildren of which she did. My wife always wanted to go back home to her roots Bonnie Scotland i also had friends who were Scottish in Australia and in Scotland and now with David Cameron And Theresa May;s closing the doors to Australia we may never see Scotland again David Cameron you and Theresa May have broken my wifes,s heart something to be proud about hurting your own people. If we were allowed to come back home we have the finances to buy our own wee house and be supported wit Australian pension we would clear 330 pounds per week and have around 30,000 pounds in the bank.Of which is better than the average wage in most of the UK remember it is Scotland we want to reside. Geronimo says: March 24, 2013 Colin sorry to read your story. Yes its all wrong. Cameron is the 'family man' who cries marriage and families. But its only other peoples families his policy destroys! May is the daughter of a vicar brought up as a christian who attends church on Sunday. Some christian then she shames her religion and church as well as her country! They are both total hypocrits when they destroy the family lives of British and Commonwealth citizens. I am a born and bred Brit national who was born before WW2. I remember German bombers over London and sleeping in air raid shelters. Who came to Britians aid in those years of Nazi threats? Thats right Commonwealth and US troops to fight for Britian and the Commonwealth! Now these 'traitors' - yes traitors - to Britains heritage and their friends are in political power. But their policy is not a British poicy - it is the Tory Conservative right wing policy! A policy whipped up by these politicians and their right wing press barons who spread media xenophobia against immigrants with total ingratitude to the people who have helped them! But every dog has its day and they will meet their match like all other rabid dogs. Good luck G Anne Clifford. says: June 23, 2013 Thank you Geronimo. I doubt very much if I will ever see Scotland again. This Government have made it so very difficult for Aussies, Kiwi's Canadians, etc. to get a visa for The U.K. We are running out of time, so we have decided that unless these rotten rules change very soon we will be staying here in Australia. Post new comment Your name: * Anonymous_____________________ E-mail: * ______________________________ The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly. 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Save * Home * About * Blog * News & Events * Publications * Migration Pulse Awale Olad Public Affairs Officer Awale Olad is the Public & Parliamentary Affairs Officer at MRN, coordinating the work of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Migration, supporting parliamentarians and policy makers on establishing a cross-party consensus on immigration policy. He organises cross-party parliamentary round-tables, political and public meetings related on immigration policy, as well as preparing briefings, comment pieces, parliamentary questions and submissions for Parliamentarians and media. Awale has an MA in European Studies from King’s College London and worked for a few years as a Parliamentary Assistant/Researcher to the Justice Minister (2007-10) and later to a backbench MP as well as working for the Camden BME Alliance. He is also a local Councillor in the London Borough of Camden and takes part in local decision making and campaigning. SUPPORT MIGRANTS RIGHTS * (*) £10 * ( ) £20 * ( ) £50 * or choose your own amount £ ____________________ I would like to make a: (*) One-off ( ) Monthly donation Donate Donate Blog house rules Like other blogs we have our house rules. Signup for updates We will send you a weekly newsletter with all the latest news on migration. ____________________ Subscribe Twitter Twitter Facebook Facebook RSS RSS Feed Youtube Youtube Flickr Flickr Google+ Google + Working for the rights of all migrants 33 Corsham Street | London | N1 6DR [email protected] | T: 020 7336 9412 Migrants' Rights Network is a registered charity. Charity no. 1125746 | Company no. 6024396 Privacy Policy | Disclaimer | Credit | Cookie Policy [tracking_image.gif] [DEL: :DEL] * Search + in Case law database + in Country reports + in Legislation database + in Resources database * Log in Log in or sign up for case law, country reports, legislation, resources Username: * _______________ Password: * _______________ Log in * Request new password A A A ___ Search * About us * Sign Up * Jobs * News * Guest blog * Events * Best Practice Guide * Experts directory * Help Home » News Second reading of Immigration Bill in Parliament Tweet Date of Publication: 22 October 2013 Summary: Full text of Home Secretary's speech to Parliament as tough new Immigration Bill gets its second reading Second reading of Immigration Bill in Parliament 22 October 2013 EIN The Home Secretary today opened the second reading debate for the controversial new Immigration Bill in Parliament. The Movement Against Xenophobia campaign group held a protest against the Bill outside Parliament. Legal Voice has more on the protest here. And also today in related Immigration Bill news, the Home Office published its response to the consultation on 'migrant access to health services in the UK' (accessible from here) and its response to the consultation on 'tackling illegal immigration in privately rented accommodation' (accessible from here). Opening the second reading of the Bill, Theresa May gave the following speech to Parliament: I beg to move that the Bill now be read a second time. Mr Speaker, we have introduced a limit on economic migration from outside the EU, cut out abuse of student visas and reformed family visas. As a result net migration is down by a third. Our objective remains to reduce annual net migration to the tens of thousands by the end of the Parliament. We must also reform the immigration system that manages the flow of migrants in and out of the UK. When I addressed this House in March this year, I explained that the immigration system we had inherited from the last Government was chaotic and dysfunctional. Having created a separate entity in Border Force to get a grip on border checks we were left with a UK Border Agency that still lacked transparency and accountability. To tackle this I split the UK Border Agency into two distinct operational commands inside the Home Office – UK Visas & Immigration and Immigration Enforcement. I made clear that whilst organisational reform was necessary to transform the way we dealt with immigration, it would not, on its own, be enough to achieve that goal. We also needed to update the IT infrastructure, and change the complicated legal and policy framework that so often worked against us. This Bill changes some of that legal and policy framework so that it will be possible for the immigration system to operate fairly and effectively. Immigration system First, it will cut abuse of the appeal process. The Bill will streamline the labyrinthine legal process which at present allows appeals against 17 different Home Office decisions. 17 different opportunities for the immigration lawyers to cash in, and for immigrants who should not be here to delay their deportation. By limiting grounds of appeal to 4 – only those which engage fundamental rights – we will cut this abuse. Second, we will extend the number of non-suspensive appeals so that, where there is no risk of serious and irreversible harm, we can deport first and hear appeals later. We will also end the abuse of Article 8. There are some who seem to think that the right to family life should always take precedence over public interest in immigration control and deporting foreign criminals. This Bill will make the view of Parliament on this issue very clear. Finally, the Bill will clamp down on those who live and work in the UK illegally and take advantage of our public services. That is not fair to the British public, and it is not fair to the legitimate migrants who contribute to our society and economy. Part 1 of the Bill is about removals. The current process for enforcing the removal of people unlawfully in the UK is a complex one, with too many stages before an individual can be removed. With multiple decision points, the current system provides individuals with multiple opportunities to bring challenges throughout the process. This increases the risk of further delay before removal takes place. We want to adopt a system where only one decision is made. This will inform the individual that they cannot stay in the UK, and enable Immigration Enforcement to remove them if they do not leave voluntarily. The existing system, designed by the previous government through their eight different Acts of Parliament, does not work. It was inevitable that such a complex system would be exploited. The Bill remedies this. Removals As well as delaying the removal process, some illegal migrants held in immigration detention may apply to an immigration judge for bail and use this chance to disappear. Bail may be appropriate in some circumstances. But can it be appropriate to grant bail when the detainee is booked onto a flight in the next few days and there are no exceptional circumstances? Should immigration detainees who have already been refused bail be permitted to make repeat applications day after day? The Bill will bring sense to the law in this area and stop this abuse. Establishing the identity of illegal migrants is a further difficulty in the removal process. Visa applicants are required to give their fingerprints to an entry clearance officer before they enter the UK. Following my reforms at the border last year, the fingerprints of arriving passengers are checked to ensure the person who has travelled to the UK is the rightful holder of the visa. But there are gaps in our powers to take fingerprints. The Bill closes them. When the police encounter a suspect, they have the power to check fingerprints. But when an immigration officer encounters a suspect illegal migrant, they may only check fingerprints where consent is given. Not surprisingly, not everyone consents. Officers need powers equivalent to the police so that when they find an illegal migrant, officers can check their fingerprints to confirm their suspicion, and start enforcement action. Part 2 of the Bill is about appeals. The appeals system is complex and costly. There are 17 different immigration decisions which attract rights of appeal, and when a case finally comes to a close, some applicants put in fresh applications and start all over again. This is not fair to the public, who expect swift enforcement of immigration decisions. Appeals This Bill sorts out this mess. In future, 17 rights of appeal will be reduced to four. Foreign criminals will not be able to prevent deportation simply by dragging out the appeals process, as many such appeals will be heard only once the criminal is back in their home country. It cannot be right that criminals who should be deported can remain here and build up a further claim to a settled life in the UK. As well as reducing the number of appeals, we propose to simplify the process. An appeal to an immigration judge is a very costly and time-consuming way to correct simple case working errors which could be resolved by a request to the Home Office to review the decision – this is what we already do overseas for millions of visa applicants. Applicants will be able to contact the Home Office and ask for a simple administrative review to remedy case working errors. This can resolve errors in decisions cheaply and quickly – within 28 days. This is substantially quicker than the average 12 weeks it currently takes to appeal via the Tribunal and all the costs this incurs. The Bill creates an effective and efficient appeals system. This will ensure that the process cannot be abused or manipulated to delay the removal of those who have no basis to remain in the UK but it still provides an opportunity to challenge a decision where fundamental rights are concerned. Foreign criminals The public are fed up with cases where foreign criminals are allowed to stay, because of an overly generous interpretation of Article 8 - the right to respect for family and private life - by the courts. Under the current system the winners are foreign criminals and immigration lawyers and the losers are the victims of those crimes and the law-abiding public. The Government first sought to address this issue by changing the Immigration Rules in July 2012, with the intention of shifting the weight the courts give to the public interest. This House debated and approved the new Rules which set out the factors in favour of deportation and the factors against. The courts accept that the new Rules provide a complete code for considering Article 8, where we are deporting foreign criminals. However, some judges have still chosen to ignore the will of Parliament and go on putting the law on the side of foreign criminals instead of the public. So I am sending a very clear message to those judges – Parliament wants the law on the people's side, the public wants the law on the people's side, and this government will put the law on the people's side once and for all. This Bill will require the courts to put the public interest at the heart of their decisions. Part 3 of the Bill is about migrants' access to services. We want to ensure that only legal migrants have access to the labour market, health services, housing, bank accounts and driving licences. This is not just about making the UK a more hostile place for illegal migrants - it is also about fairness. Those who play by the rules and work hard do not want to see businesses gaining an unfair advantage through the exploitation of illegal labour. They don't want to see our valuable public services - paid for by the taxpayer - used and abused by illegal migrants. Access to services Honourable Members will all know that the right of non-EEA nationals to work in the UK is restricted; and where the right to work is granted it may be restricted to a particular employer or limited hours. Employers are required to ensure that their employees have the right to work in the UK. If they do not, they will face penalties. But the process for enforcing these fines is complicated. The Bill will streamline this, making employers think again before hiring illegal labour. Let me turn to the NHS. Many temporary migrants are currently allowed access to the NHS for free – as if they were permanent residents. This approach is extremely generous, particularly when you compare it with wider international practice. Our intention is to bring the rules regulating migrant access to the NHS into line with wider government policy on migrants' access to benefits and social housing. That means restricting access to free NHS care to those non-EEA nationals with indefinite leave to remain and those granted refugee status or humanitarian protection in the UK. Under this Bill, other migrants will have to contribute. Migrants and NHS Temporary migrants seeking to stay in the UK for more than 6 months will have to pay an immigration health surcharge, on top of their visa fee. I can assure the House that this surcharge will make the system fairer, and it will not undermine our aim of attracting the brightest and the best. We have carefully examined what other countries do and will ensure the UK offer is a competitive one in a tough global market. Dealing with migrants is not new for the NHS. There is already a framework for charging other countries. The NHS must enforce this and recover the cost of treating foreign nationals from foreign governments. And, all of us in government will work with them to make the system work. The government also wants to ensure that illegal immigrants cannot hide in private rented housing. We are already working with councils to tackle rogue landlords. Rogues who provide 'beds in sheds' and illegal overcrowded accommodation. Under the Bill, we will go further and have the necessary powers to deal with rogue landlords who rent homes to illegal migrants. Of course, many private landlords already make checks on a tenant's identity and credit status, making it difficult for illegal migrants to rent properties from them. But not all landlords do this. So we propose to replicate the long-standing requirements for employers to check the immigration status of those that they are about to employ. We're not asking landlords to become immigration experts. Those that undertake simple steps will have nothing to fear, and there will not be a penalty. Rogue landlords will face penalties, hitting them where it hurts – their wallets. This will make it harder for landlords to house illegal immigrants, and harder for illegal immigrants to settle in the UK. Proportionate approach This is not excessive regulation. It is a proportionate approach to a significant problem. And we have listened very carefully to those who have warned us of the consequences of not doing this properly. We will make it easy for homeless and vulnerable people to prove their entitlement through simple documentary requirements. We will have a statutory code of practice making it clear that if landlords racially discriminate they will be breaking the law. And we will exempt those parts of the housing market, such as homeless hostels and student halls of residence, where further regulation would not be appropriate. The Immigration Bill will also introduce new rules to crack down on illegal migrants accessing banking products and services in the UK. Many illegal immigrants are already prevented from opening bank accounts thanks to existing identification and fraud requirements. However, there is no specific rule to stop illegal migrants from opening an account in the UK. This Bill will require banks and building societies, for the first time, to refuse a customer who wishes to open a new current account when they have been identified as an illegal immigrant. Having tackled the ability of illegal migrants to work, access healthcare, rent property, and open bank accounts, I also want to ensure that illegal migrants are denied driving licences. The Bill will give legislative force to the current administrative practice. But the measures go further, giving us the power to revoke licences. We will do everything we can to make it harder for illegal migrants to establish a settled life in the UK when they have no right to be here. Sham marriages Part 4 of the Bill tackles sham marriages and sham civil partnerships – undertaken by a fraudulent couple for their own immigration advantage. The Home Office estimates that, every year, between 4,000 to 10,000 applications to stay in the UK are made on the basis of a sham marriage or sham civil partnership. Registration officials already have a duty to report suspected sham marriages and sham civil partnerships to the Home Office. The number of reports of suspected sham cases has risen in recent years, with 1,891 reports received in 2012. At the moment we have the ridiculous situation where we cannot always stop a marriage or civil partnership that a registrar believes to be a sham. The current 15 day notice period provides very little time for the Home Office to act before the ceremony takes place. This Bill will increase the marriage and civil partnership notice period to 28 days in England and Wales. It also allows for it to be extended to 70 days where we have reasonable grounds to suspect that a marriage or civil partnership is a sham. The Home Office will investigate the genuineness of the couple's relationship and consider taking immigration enforcement action where we believe it to be a sham. If the couple do not comply with the investigation, we will stop a marriage from taking place. Should a sham marriage or civil partnership go ahead, couples will not gain an immigration advantage. They will be removed or prosecuted. Fixing immigration system Mr Speaker, fixing the immigration system is not something that can be done overnight. There were too many problems with the system that we inherited for that to be possible. However, this Bill will help us further along that road. It is frankly ridiculous that the Government has to operate such a complex system to deal with foreigners who fail to abide by our laws. It is ridiculous that the odds are stacked in favour of illegal migrants. It is unacceptable that hard working taxpayers have to compete with people who have no right to be here. This Bill will begin to address these absurdities and restore the balance. I commend this Bill to the House. * Restrictions end on Bulgarian and Romanian citizens’ treaty rights to live and work in the UK * UNHCR concerned Immigration Bill could lead to marginalisation of refugees and asylum-seekers * Committee on Human Rights says Immigration Bill's reduction of appeal rights a serious threat to the access of justice * Supreme Court dismisses "adopted child" appeal but says rules should be amended * Joint Committee on Human Rights calls on the Government to reconsider its plans for legal aid reform * Home Office: Evaluation of the new family returns process * House of Commons Library: Immigration and asylum policy: Government plans and progress made * New Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules * Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration concerned by poor decision making at Dhaka and Warsaw visa sections * Updated House of Commons Library report on immigration provisions for victims of domestic violence More About About us Contact Contact us Tel: 0845 458 4151 E-mail: info@ein.org.uk EIN on Twitter EIN on YouTube Site help Help index Search help Bundle help Site information Legal and copyright Privacy policy and cookies © Copyright 2013 Electronic Immigration Network Registered charity no: 1059147 Skip to content Parliament UK * Accessibility * Cookies * Email alerts * RSS feeds * Contact us Site search 1. ____________________ (BUTTON) Search * Home * Parliamentary business In this section + House of Commons + House of Lords + What's on + Bills & legislation + Committees + Publications & records + Parliament TV + News from UK Parliament + Topics Legislation and debate + Hansard Hansard Read transcripts of debates in both Houses + Bills before Parliament Bills before Parliament Track the progress of new laws through Parliament * MPs, Lords & offices In this section + MPs + Members of the House of Lords + Government & Opposition + Parliamentary offices + Members' allowances + Standards and financial interests Members of Parliament + Find your MP Find your MP Search for Members by name, postcode, constituency and party + Search for Members of the Lords Search for Members of the Lords Learn about their experience, knowledge and interests * About Parliament In this section + How Parliament works + About MPs, Lords & officers + Frequently Asked Questions + Living Heritage + Art in Parliament + Images of Parliament + Watch and Listen + Jobs at Parliament Parliament’s role + How Parliament works How Parliament works Find out about the role of Parliament’s two Houses + Living Heritage Living Heritage Learn about the history and evolution of Parliament * Get involved In this section + Parliamentary Outreach + Parliament Week + Contact your MP + Contact a Lord + Have your say + Elections and referendums Parliamentary outreach Parliamentary outreach Have your say Find out how you can get involved in the work of Parliament * Visiting In this section + Visiting Parliament + Getting here + When you arrive + Online tours Visiting Parliament + Tour the Houses of Parliament Tour the Houses of Parliament Book tours of Parliament on Saturdays throughout the year + Attend debates and meetings Attend debates and meetings Watch committees and debates * Education In this section + About your Parliament + Teaching resources and lesson plans + Teacher training and development + Outreach + Visit Supporting teachers [ImageVaultHandler.aspx.jpg] Find resources and lesson plans Browse teaching resources by key stage, subject, theme or resource type * House of Commons * House of Lords * What's on * Bills & legislation * Committees * Publications & records * Parliament TV * News * Topics You are here: * Parliament home page * Parliamentary business * Committees * Committees A-Z * Commons Select * Public Accounts Committee * News * MPs publish report on the Immigration Points Based System * Committees + Committees A-Z o Commons Select # Public Accounts Committee @ Role of the Committee @ Membership @ News @ Publications @ Formal Minutes @ Contact us COMMONS MPs publish report on the Immigration Points Based System 17 May 2011 The Committee of Public Accounts has published a report which, on the basis of evidence from the Home Office and the UK Border Agency, examines the management of the work routes of the Points Based System for Immigration. * Report: Immigration: the Points Based System - work routes * Public Accounts Committee The Rt Hon Margaret Hodge MP, Chair of the Committee of Public Accounts, today said: "The Points Based System, introduced to manage economic migration from countries outside the EEA, is better than the visa system it replaced. But there is still a good deal of room for improvement. We are concerned at the lack of control of workers entering Britain through the intra-company transfer system. This allows multinationals to transfer their workers to the UK and is not covered by the immigration cap. Most workers enter through this route and, for instance, tens of thousands of IT workers have been brought in through intra-company transfers at a time when UK residents with IT skills are struggling to find work. The Agency has not got a grip on making sure that migrant workers whose visas have expired actually leave the UK. It estimates that 181,000 such workers are staying on without permission – but it can’t even verify the figures, and does not try to enforce the employer’s duty to ensure that the people they bring in leave when they are required to do so. The Agency has not exercised proper checks on sponsoring employers. It has visited only one in five of those applying for licences. It does not know how many existing sponsors have been inspected and lacks the information required to take a robust risk-based approach. The fundamental point is that the Agency lacks the management information needed to manage migrant numbers and ensure that the rules are complied with. It assures us that its planned new immigration casework system will provide the required information. We will be looking for improved performance once the new system is fully up and running, from 2013." Margaret Hodge was speaking as the Committee published its 34h Report of this Session which, on the basis of evidence from the Home Office and UK Border Agency, examined management of the work routes of the Points Based System for immigration. The Government's policy is to allow the migration of skilled workers to the UK to support economic growth and better public services. The Home Office has overall responsibility for immigration policy and securing the UK’s border, which it discharges through the UK Border Agency (the Agency). The Agency has the hugely difficult task of designing and operating an immigration system which enables the UK to get the skills it needs, while protecting the interests of workers already resident in this country. This report focuses on how well the Agency has achieved its objectives of an efficient and effective system for managing migration of workers from outside the European Economic Area. The Agency implemented a Points Based System (the System) in 2008, which introduced three main routes for people to come to the UK to work, replacing the previous 39 types of work visa. The System also incorporates a route for students to come to the UK to study, which we do not consider in this report but intend to examine at a later date. The System works by awarding applicants points based on, for example, their skills, qualifications and salary and requiring them to meet a minimum points threshold. The System is objective, transparent and flexible, as the points required can be modified to respond to changing needs in the UK workforce. Decisions are also reached more quickly than under the previous visa system. However we are concerned that the Agency has not been doing enough to protect resident workers and ensure that migrant workers and sponsoring employers comply with immigration rules. It has not monitored migrants’ right to remain to make sure migrant workers leave when they are supposed to. A lack of exit controls makes this more difficult. The Agency estimates there may be 181,000 migrants still in the UK whose permission to remain has expired since December 2008. Migrant workers with a specific job offer have to be sponsored by an employer with a sponsorship licence from the Agency. The Agency cannot tell whether its checks on these employers are effective. It visits fewer than a fifth of employers to check their compliance with immigration rules, before granting them a licence. The Agency lacks the basic information needed to take a robust risk-based approach to visiting sponsoring employers. We were surprised, for example, that the Agency does not even know how many sponsors it has visited. Multi-national employers can send workers from outside the European Economic Area to UK branches or subsidiaries using the ‘Intra-Company Transfer’ route. Over half of all skilled workers entering the UK under the System with a specific job offer use the Intra-Company Transfer route, where checks are much more limited. Some two thirds of the migrants using this route work in IT, and are potentially displacing resident workers with IT skills. Unlike the other work routes, the number of workers that can enter the UK through this route is not capped, although workers have to earn above a certain amount. The Home Office has now set a minimum salary requirement for this route of £40,000 (and £24,000 for those in the UK for less than a year), to better protect the interests of resident workers. However, this minimum salary includes living allowances and therefore does not accurately reflect salary levels. In these circumstances, some companies may use cheaper workers from outside the EEA rather than UK resident workers. The Points Based System is rule-based and requires applicants to supply specific documentation to support their applications. Applicants, however, have needed more help to understand the rules than the Agency was expecting, with half using the helplines. The Agency introduced a policy of ‘evidential flexibility’, allowing caseworkers to request additional information in support of applications, to prevent applications being rejected for easily corrected mistakes; however, this is not applied consistently. We are concerned that although the Agency has a programme to improve its guidance, it does not do enough to help applicants and sponsors make accurate and compliant applications; and that too many applications are not completed within acceptable timeframes. The Agency currently lacks the management information to manage migrant numbers effectively and ensure compliance with immigration rules. We welcome plans to introduce an integrated casework system which should provide the information necessary for dealing with these issues, and expect to see improved performance once the new casework system is fully operational from 2013. * About Parliament: Select Committees Image: PA More news on: Parliament, government and politics, Parliament, Asylum, immigration and nationality, Immigration, Employment and training, Commons news, Committee news Share this page Tweet Stay up to date * Parliamentary News RSS * Subscribe by email More Parliament news * MPs debate remaining stages of the Water Bill * Statement on flooding: 6 January 2014 * MPs to hold third evidence session for Better roads inquiry * Children and Families Bill: Lords report stage day three * Intrusive powers over travellers at ports and airports require greater safeguards * House of Lords back to business * Transport networks still vulnerable to winter weather disruption * Lack of consensus over how well Tamiflu actually works * Westminster Hall debates: 7 January 2014 * Lords Committee reports on European Union (Referendum) Bill Footer links * A-Z index * Glossary * Contact us * Freedom of Information * Jobs * Using this website * Copyright Parliament UK * Accessibility * Cookies * Email alerts * RSS feeds * Contact us Site search Site search 1. Search ____________________ Search Primary navigation * Home * Parliamentary business * MPs, Lords & offices * About Parliament * Get involved * Visiting * Education * House of Commons * House of Lords * What's on * Bills & legislation * Committees * Publications & records * Parliament TV * News * Topics You are here: Parliament home page > Parliamentary business > Publications and Records > Lords Publications > Lords Hansard > Lords Hansard by Date > Daily Hansard Previous Section Back to Table of Contents Home Page _______________________________________________________________ Supply and Appropriation (Main Estimates) Bill First Reading 2 pm The Bill was brought from the Commons, endorsed as a money Bill, and read a first time. Immigration and Security Motion to Take Note 2 pm Moved By Lord Marlesford That this House takes note of the relationship between effective immigration controls and the interests of the security of the United Kingdom. Lord Marlesford: My Lords, the balance between the protection of our national borders and our openness to the world is an area of policy in which the demands of the citizen can arouse the suspicions of a libertarian. This is one of the perpetual and challenging problems of protecting democracy. Any solutions must emerge from the reflections of the philosopher and the imperatives of the elected politician. As a mere observer and commentator on the political process, I seek only to identify some issues, explore the options that are available in our chaotic world and suggest practical decisions that need to be taken. At no time since 1945 has this country been as threatened by terrorism as it is today. The threat is likely to continue and even grow during the lifetimes of many of us in this Chamber today. During the Cold War, the danger of conflict was both checked and mitigated by the nuclear stalemate. Three decades of Irish terrorism were for us a local difficulty, although certainly not a little one. Today, the world is threatened by a conflict between the theocratic factions of Islam—Sunni and Shia—and their complex and varied subdivisions, such as the Alawites. Religious struggles can and do last for centuries, during which they wax and wane. This one started more than 1,000 years ago with divided claims to the leadership of the Muslim world. The lack of a pan-Islamic secular leadership is one key to the problem that we face. The man-made borders of today demonstrate fragility, with maps taking on the instability of a kaleidoscope. A cruel civil war is spreading through 4 July 2013 : Column 1361 much of the Muslim world, putting several nations in danger of descending into the anarchy and agony of the failed state. The factional terrorists of Islam seem to unite only in the overriding mission of Islamist jihadists to install a worldwide caliphate under Sharia law. An uneasy concordat between Muslims and Christians is now fragmenting, with mounting aggression against Christians, who are irrationally perceived as representatives of western interests. A virtue of democracy is its vulnerability to authoritarianism, which is why it must be protected from the inhumanity of theocracy. We in the UK, along with other western nations, are menaced by jihadists, both imported and home-grown. Many people arriving in Britain, including some of those seeking asylum from persecution, bring with them their own political, religious and cultural agendas. My premise is that if a nation cannot defend its own border security, everything is at risk. It is in that context that I suggest that where the survival of democracy is at stake, the human rights of the ideal democratic state must be subordinate, at least temporarily, to national security. The absolutes of death are not part of life and never can be. Nor can our democratically elected politicians put responsibility for our national security in the hands of unelected bodies in Brussels, Strasbourg or anywhere else. That is the road to tyranny. The proposals that I shall make are neither dramatic nor threatening to our cherished British liberties. They are, in sum, based merely on using the possibilities offered by effective management, combined with technology, to help identify and forestall threats of serious crime and terrorism. I believe that the British people support our security and intelligence services having the powers and facilities that they need to protect us. Our deep-rooted sense of independent justice, and our ancient system of parliamentary democracy, hold the ring against abuse, either from inside or outside, by those powers. I have been to GCHQ and was impressed in particular by the priority given to countering the threat of cyberattack, which is a form of terrorism. The coalition Government have, rightly, abandoned the proposals for a national identity card. To begin with, it could never be a secure or even reliable means of immediate identification. Secondly, it has historical overtones that are unacceptable. Identification numbers, and passports for travel, are another matter. They have existed in various forms for a very long time. Today’s technology offers far greater efficiency. It goes without saying that the issuing of passports must be protected by the highest security. Some years ago, my noble friend Lady Anelay and I visited the Passport Agency. We were able to identify serious and obvious weaknesses in the system. Recently, as the Identity and Passport Service, I understand that it has been better—but how much better? It is absurd that the British passport authorities are unaware of what other passports those with a British passport hold. I was warned by security sources five years ago of the danger of terrorists and other criminals concealing their activities through the use of multiple passports. Risk areas include Pakistan, Somalia and Algeria. I am not against people having more than one 4 July 2013 : Column 1362 passport, or multiple nationalities. However, for years I have urged the Government to take steps to establish details of what other passports UK passport holders have. There should be a strict obligation to divulge full details to the British passport authorities, including a photocopy of any other passports held. One response I have had in the past from the Government was that people would not necessarily disclose the fact that they had a second passport. The answer to that is simple: anyone found to have concealed their non-British passport would be liable to have their British passport cancelled. As a British passport is issued under the royal prerogative, there should be no administrative problem in doing that, although a judge could have a part in endorsing the decision. There are many aspects to the visa question. However, as with nationality, it is absurd that we should be inhibited from discriminating in favour of certain categories of persons who should be given British nationality or visas to come to Britain. We already do so, with some nationalities requiring visas and others not. One of the silliest things I heard recently was the Chancellor, when announcing that Mark Carney, his nominee for Governor of the Bank of England, would take British citizenship, emphasising that Mr Carney would of course not have any preference or priority in his application. Of course there have to be fast tracks and priorities for those we want, for example genuine businesspeople, as well as bars and vetoes on those we do not want in our country. To deny this is egalitarianism gone mad. Genuine students must be encouraged. They are the future trade links for the UK. I welcome the Government’s new proposals to limit health tourism in the NHS by non-EU nationals. We must also examine the vulnerability of our borders to those arriving from and through Europe. Our national interest must be paramount in formulating immigration policies. This does not, of course, exclude us from continuing to act as a haven for the persecuted, who are, incidentally, often obliged to use false passports to escape from where they are coming. However, it is crucial that the processing staff who issue both passports and visas should be of the highest integrity, and this has certainly not been the case. The hub-and-spoke system of issuing visas from regional centres can facilitate corruption and sacrifice quality to economy. The staff of the border agency have not only been of inadequate calibre but have proved to be seriously and systemically corrupt. In five years, some 30 members of Home Office staff have received heavy prison sentences—up to nine years in one case and three, four and five years in several others—for misconduct in public office, and the great majority of these were from the border agency. This is so serious that I hope the Minister can tell us that a plan has been made to root out the corruption in an organisation in which these convictions may well be only the tip of the iceberg. On 25 March, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary announced that the border agency, which is still not fit for purpose, is yet again to be reorganised. I suggest that a Green Paper is needed to say what is to be done, with particular reference to staffing. If we are 4 July 2013 : Column 1363 going to have legislation on this, it should probably be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny. There have been so many disastrous failures, and this time we really must get it right. I believe that the UK Border Force should be subject to similar standards of discipline and nationality qualification as the Armed Forces; they are, after all, part of the defence of the realm. We now have a new commander of the Border Force, Vice-Admiral Sir Charles Montgomery, who was Second Sea Lord. He faces a great challenge to get a grip of the show. He should be up to it, but time will tell. Meanwhile, I would like to see some of the very able military officers and non-commissioned officers, who are prematurely leaving our Armed Forces because of defence cuts, recruited into the Border Force in positions of command and control. Clearly, members of the Border Force cannot be allowed to continue to take industrial action, as they are at present. They should instead, I suggest, be part of the military covenant. I come now to the e-Borders system. We are probably one of the least efficient advanced countries in the electronic protection of our borders. I believe that three of the most efficient are Hong Kong, Israel and the United States. It is lamentable that, after enormous expenditure on our e-Borders system, it is still not in sight of completion. When there are so many people who may be intent on harming our society and our nation, it is absurd that we do not know even whether they are in the country. What is the point of laying down conditions for entry that include requirements for departure, as most visas do, when we have no way of knowing whether people who should have left our shores have actually done so? The system will be complete only when every entry and departure is electronically linked to an up-to-date warning list, with records kept for as long as the security forces think necessary. In my view, that is no threat to privacy. I have three questions for the Minister. First, how much has so far been spent on the e-Borders project? Secondly, how much more is budgeted to be spent? Thirdly, when will it be completed? Finally, I come back to the controversial area of human rights and our national sovereignty. In the debate on human rights on 20 June, my noble friend Lord Faulks referred to the £1.7 million cost of litigation in the Abu Qatada extradition case and the lack of any limit, apparently, to what the taxpayer is expected to fund. Those who our courts have declared a risk to our national security can at present twist and turn at huge financial cost to the taxpayer to avoid or postpone deportation. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, commented in that debate on the “totally disproportionate” cost of British advocates appearing in front of the European Court of Human Rights, who are, apparently, “10 times more expensive” than advocates from other jurisdictions. Resources are limited. Such costs cannot be justified in the face of spending cuts in so many other areas. If extradition is to continue to be subject to the European court, there should be a fast track to that court, so that there is not endless messing around before a case gets there. The European 4 July 2013 : Column 1364 court should itself have a fast track to deal with deportation cases. That could save much time and money, I suspect. As my noble friend Lord McNally said in that debate, human rights are, “deep in the political DNA of the British people and of our history”.—[ Official Report , 20/6/13; col. 460.] If, as the old cliche has it, politics is the art of the possible, then the effective control of immigration and the protection of our borders is an equal challenge to all our political parties and leaders, and they should surely be able to agree a policy on a cross-party basis. Such a policy should never—indeed need never—undermine our proud traditions of parliamentary protection of liberty. Lord Spicer: Before my noble friend sits down, I will make one quick comment, which I think can fit in within the time allocated to him. He mentioned in his brilliant speech that the passport office is getting better. I had the experience recently of trying the fast track. I spent nine hours in the passport office. The main reason it gave me was that it could not communicate between London and Liverpool. That might perhaps prompt my noble friend to think again a little about how efficient it really is. Lord Marlesford: My noble friend gives a very good example of the problems. 2.17 pm Baroness Hamwee: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, for an interesting speech on such a significant issue. The relationship between effective immigration controls and the interests of our security—the words used in the title of his debate—is certainly not the same as it was some years and some centuries ago. He talked about the kaleidoscope that has twisted again, of course, just in the past few hours. I wondered what security was in this context. My noble friend Lord Alderdice tells me that in Northern Ireland during the Troubles they used to distinguish between those involved in the Troubles and ODCs: ordinary, decent criminals. I think that the distinction now between organised crime and terrorism across the UK is quite blurred. As the noble Lord has said, crime threatens security and funds terrorism. I wondered even more what was meant by a “border” in this context; I mentioned this to the noble Lord yesterday. Our physical border is hard enough to defend, with international aviation, a lot of coastline, trading, parcel services and so on, but of course it is the non-physical border and modern communications and their new challenges that are so much the subject of our attention, and so they should be. The House has debated cybersecurity, which the noble Lord has mentioned, on a number of occasions. It is one of the areas in the national security strategy, along with organised crime, climate change, energy and so on, in which immigration controls certainly have a role, so it must be right that security is intelligence led. 4 July 2013 : Column 1365 There have been home-grown rebellions through the ages. Disaffection may take new forms now, although there was something very primitive about the attack in Woolwich. Those attackers clearly felt a need to talk to the world, as have those who have formed pre-suicide attack statements. What should we learn from this? What are the needs which those who recruit them are meeting? When talking about some people’s vulnerabilities recently, particularly those of young people, I realised how those have been exploited, how they are let down by the system, or feel that they are, how they feel unseen and not responded to, and that we could have been talking about grooming for sexual exploitation, gang recruitment or terrorism. We need to speak to the needs of these young people and to reach out to them in a way that they understand and not see the problems only through the lens of our own views. I was grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, who I do not think is taking part in this debate but is in his place, for arranging a meeting earlier this week with representatives of a women’s network, the Shanaz Network, which grew out of the worries of mothers about their sons, and sometimes their daughters, and their vulnerability to radicalisation and finding the language and a way to talk to them about this. They said, although not quite in these terms, that fathers may tend to applaud their sons as being masculine and macho whereas mothers are much more inclined to say, “Stop and think”. They have searched for ways to say that, and I am sure in many instances have been very successful in doing so. I mentioned intelligence-led provision. I have heard it said that our security services, in recruiting or “turning “ people, think in terms of, “We must get this person”, not, “We must get to know this person”. The other major issue that was more than touched on by the noble Lord is the competence—I use the word deliberately—of our border controls. The frustration of the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee is evident in its regular reports on the UKBA. I do not need to spell out what the backlog means at a macro as well as a micro or an individual level. In its last report, the Home Affairs Select Committee said: “It is possible that tens of thousands of individuals whom the Agency has not been able to trace are still here … We are astonished that the Agency provided this Committee, and its predecessors, with information that turned out to be patently wrong on so many occasions over the last six years”. I am not comforted by the outsourcing of immigration services, not least because I am not convinced that the level of training needed to undertake the job of, for instance, an entry clearance officer, which is important and often very sensitive, will be given, although I have no doubt that the Minister will tell us of the work that is being done to turn all this around. Our borders are not under threat from mass movements of people, as is the case, for instance, in north Africa or Italy, but that does not mean that we should not think as seriously and thoughtfully as this debate allows others—I do not include myself in that—to do. We could, of course, turn the question on its head and ask what security we provide for migrants who are open to exploitation, but I suspect that is not what the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, seeks from this debate. 4 July 2013 : Column 1366 2.24 pm Viscount Bridgeman: My Lords, I, too, am grateful to my noble friend Lord Marlesford for initiating this debate. It is worth reflecting on the reasons why the United Kingdom is such a sought after destination for immigrants. It is a commonly held view that this country has over the centuries benefited from its immigrants: the Huguenots, the Jews before and after the Second World War, and, more recently, thanks to the farsighted decision of the Late Lord Carr of Hadley, the Asians from east Africa, to name only a few. It is fair to say that this country has been enriched by their contributions. However, these groups’ numbers pale into insignificance when compared with the huge numbers continuing to seek to settle in this country, mainly from the Indian subcontinent, particularly from Pakistan. What draws such large numbers? It is, I suggest, in part the legacy of the empire, the shared English language, the basic familiarity with institutions which they will have known in their home countries, the attraction of the British way of life and the confidence that they can reasonably expect a fair deal from British justice, with a race relations regime that on the whole is a force for good. However, there are problems, as my noble friend pointed out. We do not have a national identity regime, the background of which he described very well. However, we must face the fact that because of its absence it is probably easier to “get lost” in the United Kingdom than in any other country in Europe. There is also the multiplier effect. The larger an originally immigrant community, the easier it is to hide oneself in it. Many of the immigrants are economic migrants or “health tourists”, a subject very much in the news. However, as my noble friend pointed out, all too many arrive with more sinister intentions. My noble friend Lady Hamwee amplified that point. Many will have read with horror and disgust that several of the 7/7 bombers had been playing cricket the previous week. What better cover could they have had? To deal with this, we have a border control regime that in the recent past has proved not to be up to the job. It is worth remembering that in the matter of border control, this country starts with several advantages not possessed by fellow members of the European Union. To start with, apart from Malta and Cyprus, the UK and Ireland are the only island members. We are not members of Schengen, which means that we are not, at least directly, affected by the porous links in the Schengen border chain, notably the Turkish-Greek land border, which causes so many problems to the already beleaguered Greeks, although I am encouraged by the steps which the EU has recently taken to improve the policing of that border. Nevertheless, border control has quite plainly not been delivering. It was not effectively overseen by the previous Administration, who in 2008 formed the UK Border Agency, which held responsibility for all aspects of the immigration system, its overall policy, visa and migration applications, and the enforcement of border controls, including on crime. The agency was faced 4 July 2013 : Column 1367 with a big backlog of asylum cases and its IT systems were often incompatible and relied on manual data entry instead of automated data collection. The UKBA had been given agency status with the best of intentions to keep its work at arm’s length from Ministers. However, the effect was to create a close and defensive culture, which meant that many of the inefficiencies and problems associated with the UKBA remained hidden from the organisations that had the responsibility of scrutinising them. My noble friend has drawn attention to the shocking number of criminal convictions in the Home Office, particularly in the border agency, over the past five years. I very much welcome the appointment of Vice-Admiral Sir Charles Montgomery to be the commander of the border agency. Noble Lords will recall that in March 2012 the functions of the UKBA were restructured, with immigration enforcement and visa applications being separated into two separate units within the Home Office and responsible to a Minister. This was to enable each body to create its own culture around its own priorities. The border force was created with the responsibility for entry controls and customs functions at UK borders. I wish to take up a point made by my noble friend about e-passports. There are huge technological advances in this area, although in my limited recent experience I have yet to see my own e-passport beating the conventional queue at passport control. However, this is probably due to people ahead of me in the e-queue being as unfamiliar with the system as I am. There are immense possibilities for intelligence-gathering with this new technology. My noble friend mentioned the inability of immigration authorities to compel applicants for passports to disclose other passports held by them. With the advent of the global society this is surely becoming increasingly anomalous, to say the least, facilitating as it surely does the activities of the international criminal. There must also be a read-across to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. I am not familiar with the background to the issue of dual or multiple passports by other jurisdictions, but I would welcome the Minister’s assurance that the Government are aware of this problem and to know whether they have any plans for addressing it. 2.30 pm Lord Ramsbotham: My Lords, I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, on obtaining this timely and important debate and on his introductory speech. I suspect that we have come to the same conclusions by slightly different routes. My personal experience with immigration controls, and therefore with the immigration and asylum system, began when I was appointed Chief Inspector of Prisons. When I was made responsible for the inspection of what were then called immigration detention centres in 1997, I was absolutely appalled by the amount of inefficiency and waste that I found. Immigrants and asylum-seekers were being detained for months, even years, while their cases were allegedly examined in what I can only describe as a dilatory manner. The process for foreign 4 July 2013 : Column 1368 national prisoners sentenced to deportation was started only after they had completed their prison sentences. Legal arrangements for the speedy resolution of asylum applications were totally inadequate. Detention centres lacked detention rules and used totally inapplicable prison rules. There were many other examples. Later, I was one of the commissioners of an independent asylum commission that examined the whole system and reported in 2009. At the heart of our concerns was the UK Border Agency, with its culture of disbelief, whose word on performance figures we simply could not believe, making us wonder quite how Ministers, deprived of actual facts, could come to meaningful conclusions. Worryingly, appreciation of the faults in the system was not helped by Ministers using that false UKBA evidence to counter outside concerns about actual facts. That is one of the main contributors to the unsatisfactory situation which the Home Secretary is now trying to resolve. This year and last I have been conducting a review of the removal process of those sentenced to deportation and discovered a quite horrifying muddle in case handling, quite apart from the actual conduct of the deportation to be. I must declare my interest as a member of the recently formed soft power Select Committee, which is due to report to the House later this year or next year. When I was director of public relations for the Army, my job was to protect and project the Army’s image. Our national immigration policy should have both those same intents in mind. The National Security Council reports on border issues every year, and I am sure that the national security protection work of the National Crime Agency and the Border Policing Command will come under its regular scrutiny. The Select Committee has also learnt that the National Security Council is responsible for the co-ordination of the projection of soft power. If it, too, already has those, why should it not exercise them more? Immigration controls are an essential ingredient of national security. In the past, however, too many involved in exercising those controls have seen them as a process and an end in themselves which they have not related to wider implications. I am very glad that maximum use of technology and intelligence is being made, because this is the key to tackling a whole range of border security checks. I welcome introductions such as the immigration and asylum biometric system. However, at that heart of all that are people. We must be concerned about the people who use and interpret the technology, not the technology itself. There are currently 17 agencies working to secure our borders, which is far too many, not least because there is a lack of clarity over who is actually in command of them and to whom they are responsible and accountable, collectively and individually. Earlier in the year, the Home Secretary reorganised what used to be called the Immigration and Nationality Directorate, so famously dismissed by John Reid as not fit for purpose, which is now called the UK Border Agency. As I understand it, the outside structure, if that is the right term, is now to be the Border Policing Command, within the National Crime Agency, which will be the national lead for border security and will oversee a single intelligence picture, co-ordinate and 4 July 2013 : Column 1369 task other agencies involved in border security and work with overseas partners to disrupt early those who pose a threat to border security. Secondly, there will be a border force that will concentrate on screening and managing all goods and passengers arriving in the United Kingdom. Within the Home Office, there will be an immigration and visa service and a law enforcement service, each with its own director-general, who will be a member of an oversight board, chaired by the Permanent Secretary, whose membership will also include policy, the passport service and the border force. In announcing the new organisation, the Home Secretary said that she was doing this because the UK Border Agency was too big, lacked a clear culture, lacked transparency and accountability, lacked adequate information technology and was subject to a complex policy and legal framework. If the UK is to project what the Home Secretary wants, which is a culture of customer satisfaction among businessmen and legal visitors, it is absolutely essential that our immigration controls are seen as being focused on national security and are not seen by potential international clients as an excessively bureaucratic and intimidatory ordeal to be undergone before doing business with, studying in or visiting this country. It is essential that the officials responsible for such aspects as student and business visas are continually reminded of how their attitude and efficiency rebound on our national reputation. I have been very struck by the volume and strength of complaint made by witnesses to our Select Committee about this. If it results in the falling off of either business activity, which affects our economy, or of student numbers, which affects both or economy and our influence in the world, it could be said to be damaging our long-term security. Therefore, while I am sure that the proposals announced by the Home Secretary have the potential to be an improvement on what was in existence until March, I fear that they were based on an incomplete and in-house assessment of the main problem. True economic migration needs to be limited, as does the abuse of student and family visas. However, every aspect of immigration control is ultimately dictated by national security and so the whole system, particularly if it currently includes 17 agencies, needs to be reformed with a view to making it more accountable and transparent. I am very glad that the role of the independent chief inspector of the UK Border Agency is to be increased. I pay tribute to the present holder of the appointment, John Vine, whose reports are always penetrating, constructive and worth reading. I would rather that his independence was marked by him being a Crown official, and therefore Her Majesty’s chief inspector, because that extra degree of independence is always useful when dealing with myriad different agencies. Who, for example, is responsible and accountable for the non-circulation of and failure to act upon alerts produced by the National Border Targeting Centre, an organisation that hopes to cover every arrival in the United Kingdom by 2014 and which the Home Affairs Select Committee, whose continuing focus on the failings of the UKBA is to be warmly applauded, recommends should be accountable to Parliament. 4 July 2013 : Column 1370 There have been, and are, many concerns about the way in which immigration controls are themselves controlled and conducted. There are too many of them for anyone concerned with national security to be comfortable with. The internal reforms announced by the Home Office are good, but only in part. I would feel much happier if the National Security Council, responsible for protecting the security and projecting the image of the nation, were to institute an outside examination of the immigration system, rather than rely on a series of in-house palliatives, to ensure that this nation is protected and its image projected in the way we would wish. 2.41 pm Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts: My Lords, I share the view expressed by many other noble Lords that my noble friend Lord Marlesford is owed a great debt of gratitude for allowing us to debate this important topic. He has a great virtue: once he has got his teeth into an issue, he does not let go. I had opportunities in another Select Committee under his tutelage, when together we were able to work on the chronic mismanagement of another agency, the Serious Organised Crime Agency and its multiplicity of suspicious activity reports—the SARs regime. My noble friend has done an admirable job by filleting the UK Border Agency this afternoon. It is also a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. I serve under his tutelage, too. He is the chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on prison reform, of which I am the secretary. I also serve with him on the Select Committee on Soft Power and the UK’s Influence, which has been in operation for a few months. It would be impossible to go one better on either of those two distinguished contributions, and I want to step back a little and consider the country’s security needs in a slightly wider context. My starting point is that mentioned by my noble friend Lord Bridgeman, the shock that many of us felt on learning that the July bombers were not foreign-born jihadists but native-born Britons who therefore had access to the supposed benefits of our society—economic, educational and cultural—and I and many other people asked ourselves: what did this unwelcome news portend? I identify four trends that together have exacerbated tensions, sadly all-too-often present when the sensitive but nevertheless important issue of immigration is discussed. In my view, taken together, they carry significant implications for the long-term security of this country. The first issue is the scale of immigration in the first decade of this century. Secondly, there is the potential crowding out of native-born individuals in the economy. Please note that I used the words “native born”, which are not alternative words for “white”. I mean that the impact of crowding out is equally, perhaps more, significant for recently arrived, second-generation immigrants than it is for people who have been here longer. Thirdly, there is the impact of the current, deep-seated economic recession. Fourth is the way that all these together are being exacerbated by the increasingly crowded conditions and population density of England, particularly the south-east of England. 4 July 2013 : Column 1371 First, the scale of immigration over the post-war period between 1945 and about 2000 resulted in there being about 4 million ethnic-minority Britons, most of whom came from post-colonial states. Since 2000, the pace has quickened. In the years since, their number has doubled to 8 million. To set this in historical context, it is said that if one omits the years of the large Huguenot immigration after the revocation of the edict of Nantes in 1465 and the impact of Irish immigration—for much of the time Ireland was part of the United Kingdom—in each year between 2004 and 2010 there were more immigrants to the United Kingdom than there were in the whole period between 1066 and 1945. There were more immigrants in each year than there were in nine centuries. The question that we have to ask ourselves is how quickly and successfully can our society absorb such numbers, and what does “absorb” mean? If they are not absorbed, what are the possible consequences for our security? Our society rests on a delicate balance of shared rights and responsibilities. Our welfare state in particular rests on a generational balance. What do we ask of immigrants? Undoubtedly, our life is enriched by their diverse contributions, but what of our values, our beliefs and our approaches? What are we entitled to ask, perhaps require, them to accept? There is evidence—admittedly much of it anecdotal, but equally much of it widespread—as the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby mentioned in the global migration debate on 6 June, of introverted, inward-looking communities, including schools and faith groups. These must be breeding grounds for attitudes that do not form part of our historic traditions and therefore present dangers to the nation’s security. This situation is exacerbated by the dangers of crowding out, which is well documented among people in the lower range of wage and skills. My noble friend on the Front Bench, with his knowledge of East Anglia, will have first-hand knowledge of this situation in the Peterborough area. However, there is potential crowding out higher up the scale. The Higher Education Commission last year conducted an inquiry into postgraduate education. My noble friend Lord Norton of Louth and the noble Lord, Lord Boswell of Aynho, were members of the inquiry. The report stated: “Much of the recent increase in postgraduate student numbers is due to rising numbers of international students. Postgraduate enrolments have increased by more than 200% since 1999, compared to an increase of just 18% for home and EU students. The Commission is concerned that this increase masks stagnation in the qualification and skill level of the home-domiciled population. We need an emphasis on up-skilling the UK population, ensuring that British students are able to compete in the global labour market”. Added to that is my third point. The general impact of the economic recession and the psychological impact on young men and women of not being able to find gainful employment, especially among first-generation arrivals, should not be underestimated, particularly when they see the jobs they seek being taken by immigrants. Fourthly and finally, the population continues to increase. The Office for National Statistics has recently produced a press release covering last year’s population 4 July 2013 : Column 1372 increase. The population of England and Wales grew by 396,900, 60% of which was due to the excess of births over deaths but 40%—155,500—was due to international arrivals. Just to put this figure in context, this means that the population of England and Wales is increasing by 1,084 per day. We are putting a medium-sized village on the map of England and Wales every week. We are putting a parliamentary constituency on the map every 10 weeks. Security does not just stop at the White Cliffs of Dover. It is a ghastly, overused and hackneyed phrase to say that we live in an ever more interconnected world. If we do not want people to try to come here in large numbers from that wider world, and within those large numbers there will inevitably be some who wish this country ill, we have to find ways to make life more tolerable for them at home. We may be feeling sorry for ourselves about our economic plight but to the people in developing countries, particularly those who have found development to be difficult, the UK looks like Nirvana. Somehow, therefore, desperate people are going to find a way to get here. However, there is a wider point. What these developing countries need is leadership. They need their citizens to be trained in the skills that a modern state requires. Yet, we see nothing perverse in setting out to recruit these very people to come and work here. Let me give a practical example. I am extremely pleased to see in his place the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, because in the debate on global migration earlier in June to which my noble friend on the Front Bench also replied, the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, explained how this country is still creaming off health workers from all over the world to come and work here. He said: “In our own country it is clear that we have been absolutely dependent over the past four or five decades on the migration of skilled workers in healthcare—doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals—to ensure the delivery of a successful National Health Service. I myself am the son of two medical practitioners who came to the United Kingdom in the 1960s to continue their own postgraduate education and were given the chance to develop their careers here, both as academics and clinical practitioners”.—[Official Report, 6/6/13; col. 1378.] He went on to explain that just over a quarter of a million individuals are registered with the GMC, 160,000 of whom are the products of our 32 recognised medical schools, 25,500 of whom come from within the EU, but 67,000 of whom come from the wider world. If you do the maths, this means that 26.5%, over a quarter of the doctors in this country, come from outside the EU. They will not all be from developing countries and some will be pursuing academic rather than clinical careers, but one is inevitably drawn to the conclusion that there must be a measurable adverse impact on health provision in developing countries as a result of these policies. Let me make it clear to the noble Lord that this is not an attack on him or his parents. I have no doubt that this country has benefited greatly from their work. However, it is worth asking ourselves about the considerable implications for other less fortunate parts of the world. For example, in Malawi, following heavy migration, there are now 336 nurses for a population of 12 million people. On the same scale, the UK would 4 July 2013 : Column 1373 have fewer than 2,000 nurses. When your child is dying of a preventable disease in a developing country and you are told that the West is recruiting your country’s scarce health workers, does this make you more favourably disposed towards the West or does it make you more receptive to the blandishments of the extremist? An important by-product of the information revolution is that more people now know more about other parts of the world than ever before. What we could, so to speak, get away with 10 or 15 years ago is becoming increasingly a matter of public record. Further, what is happening in healthcare is paralleled in a whole range of other skills and professions. To conclude, my noble friend Lord Marlesford is absolutely right to stress the need for secure borders, but we also have to think strategically about what we should demand of those who were born and reside here, what we should demand of those who seek to live here permanently, how many of them we can afford to admit, and what we offer them all in return. To fail to resolve this conundrum means that we will put at risk that delicate balance of rights and responsibilities on which our civil society, honed over hundreds of years, depends. The security of the nation and its prosperity depend on our ability to engage with and resolve these challenging issues. 2.52 pm Lord Selsdon: My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend Lord Marlesford for giving us the opportunity to discuss this issue. He and I often sing from the same hymn sheet, but he is perhaps more of a highly trained and intelligent Rottweiler while I am just a friendly Labrador, concerned about not upsetting too much my noble friend on the Front Bench when we gang up together. When I first joined your Lordships’ House, goodness me, some 50 years ago, I asked the then Leader of the House what I should do about a maiden speech. “Talk about something you know about”, he said. I replied, “Sir, I do not really know about anything”. He said, “Well, talk about your childhood, then”. I have suddenly realised that there is an opportunity, in this debate on immigration, for me to do so. When the war came in 1940, with my mother and my younger sister I was suddenly migrated to the United States for safety purposes, so we were told. A year later my mother had to return to the United Kingdom because her own mother had died, her brother had been shot down and killed, and there were other family matters. However, she could not get back to us. As migrants or immigrants, we were moved from the United States up to Canada, to a form of nursery school run by a wonderful woman called Sister Hilda. She had had a school in Rottingdean where she had looked after children of empire while their parents were away and could not be with them. So there I lived and I learnt to speak Canadian. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. Occasionally I had to write letters to my mother, and when the other I day I found them, I saw that they were all about the war. In that environment I was to some extent an immigrant, but it was rather more complicated than that. My father, who I did not see for many years, and my mother were called Selsdon, but the name of my sister 4 July 2013 : Column 1374 and I was Mitchell-Thomson. As bright young children, we naturally worked out that we were probably not the children of those parents, and that perhaps ours had been killed in the war or even, I managed to find out, that we were possibly illegitimate. However, it was too long a word for me and I did not understand what it actually meant. This went on for quite a period of time, but then with great aplomb, my mother, who was then serving as a driver in the RAF, through a friend managed to get us on board a Canadian troopship and thus come back to the United Kingdom. When we arrived we were immigrants into the United Kingdom and we were treated as such, but our name was not the same as that of our parents. We had labels around our necks so that we could be identified when we were taken off the train in, I think, Olympia, having sat in the ship in Liverpool for some three or four weeks. I was quite happy about it because the Canadians were kind to children. They taught me all about things and they let me clean their guns. I loved the idea of the war and I really wanted to join up. The difficulty was that when we came back to our real life over here, I was an immigrant and I was to be sent off to school. However, we did not have any clothing coupons so I could not have a school uniform. A young boy quite likes to be in uniform, so it was rather difficult. I could have a school hat, but not the uniform. One remembers the difficulties of being, to some extent, a foreigner in your own country. Over time I have interested myself an awful lot in the Commonwealth and in the question of identity. When the identity cards Bill was going through the Lords, I went off to do a trial run. We were told to have biometric pictures taken in some vans outside. When they did me the first time the electronic voice said, “Not recognised”. So, without telling anyone, I went off to another van and tried to do the same thing, but again the electronic voice said, “Not recognised”. I suddenly asked, “Why do we have to have identity cards?”. Then I learnt in the course of our debates that in this great country you can call yourself what you like. There is no such thing as a legal name. The nearest you get to one these days is in the National Health Service. Some bright young NHS statistician in the NHS must have realised that you can give your date of birth, and that is all, because very few people with the same name are born on the same day. Once the NHS has you on the list with your date of birth, it keeps on writing to you suggesting that you should be examined, treated and everything possible should be done, and it then gives you a code name. However, you cannot remember your code name. You find in our great society that the names of people have been lost and that we all have numbers to remember. Very few people can remember more than a certain number. The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, will probably agree with me that you can always remember your service number. Mine was PJ963040—in fact, two alpha and six numeric are the best way of remembering anything. It is the best method of identification. If it is not necessary to have an identity card, what is a passport? Is it an identity card? I had a problem with this when I worked internationally. Often my 4 July 2013 : Column 1375 passport was in for a visa somewhere or other. I did not think that it would necessarily matter, so I would travel without a passport. Once when I was on the board of a company I went to Italy and arrived there without a passport. I thought that they would wave me through as usual, but it was the day after the Heysel stadium disaster where, as noble Lords may remember, British fans caused a lot of deaths in a stadium in Belgium. The passport people, who I knew quite well, said that they could not let me through without proof of identify. I said that I did not really have anything, but then I realised that I had one of my father’s suit. I showed them that from the label inside it was quite an old suit and therefore it was proof of identity. They took the jacket, then came back and said, “The jacket’s gone through. If you take your trousers off, they can go through as well. But under the current regulations we cannot let you through. You do not have actual proof of identity”. I had to wait to be identified. We do not believe in carrying proof of identity here in the United Kingdom—nor do I believe that we ever should—but perhaps there is a case for some form of it. Some time ago I lobbied about whether it would be possible for Commonwealth countries to have a slightly different passport from non-British nations, which would seem to be appropriate. Alternatively, would it not be possible for all immigrants to be required at all times to carry a card that was proof of identity, which might perhaps help them in their activities? I have tried to search and work out what the level of immigration is. The best way to do it is to ask the immigrants themselves. This morning I was woken up as usual by 11 Romanian builders. I complained to them that there was a chap at the end of the road who was one of those who sells you the gold ring that he drops on the ground. You pick it up and it has got “19” on it and he says, “Can you give me some money?” and you say, “Are you an illegal immigrant?”. They have got to know me now. The Poles, of course, colonised a good chunk of Putney but they are among the best plumbers, without any doubt. All these immigrant groups, once they are established, become extraordinarily British and they want to educate their children; above all, they want to see things bettered. If you are looking at televisions, audiovisual, it is the Caribbean that has the skills. Do not ask me why. Throughout the whole system those people who have been integrated into our society have actually developed skills. The questions we are facing are: how many more people want to come here? How many illegal immigrants are here and in what way can they be controlled or administered? Usually it is with the associations themselves. Having dealt with the Arab world for many years, I go to talk to people at the mosques and you can find out what is going on. Of course, the greatest value is the amount of information you can get from each other in exchange, particularly on situations such as Egypt at the present time. I do not know what we can do about the passport situation or immigration controls. I do feel that it has gone wrong. For those of us who travel quite a lot, if 4 July 2013 : Column 1376 you turn up at Calais to go through the Channel Tunnel, you will find two of the gates open for cars to go through and the others shut; you may have to queue for half an hour or longer and miss your connection. It is the same at all the airports. In most other countries, the waiting time is less. Is it because we have more people coming here or more people wanting to come here than other nations or is it that we cannot cope? Do we really need a new airport for ourselves? Perhaps the Minister can give us some idea of what proportion of the inflowing traffic into the United Kingdom is non-British. It is a growing amount and the excuses and reasons are given that we are a tax-friendly nation. But perhaps more than anything else, the world feels that children who are brought up and educated in England may have a better chance in the future. If we feel that the Commonwealth is important, as I have always done, we should recognise that there is more that could be done with it. When I used to sit with Enoch Powell a long time ago, he suggested that we had a Commonwealth passport. Now one says: what is the benefit of the Commonwealth and what are the opportunities? If we look at illegal trafficking of people, which tends to take place within the 200-mile limit of each country, we find that the EEZs—economic exclusion zones—of the Commonwealth are equivalent to 60% of the world. An awful lot of the trafficking now is maritime. That is perhaps a worry if it cannot be monitored. I would quite like to see whether we could have a Commonwealth identity card or some sticker or visa in the Commonwealth. I would also like to find out why even in your Lordships’ House we should be required to wear identity cards. We should know each other but my latest research indicates that very few of your Lordships can put more than 100 names to faces. The doorkeepers cannot quite do 100. My difficulty on these Benches is that I see only the backs of the heads of my noble friends, whereas I can see the faces of noble Lords opposite, so in general I feel I have a greater recognition of them. The question to the Minister is: could we please think of some method of enabling people, if they wanted to, to identify themselves with a piece of paper or a card so that they may not appear to be stateless? 3.04 pm Lord McColl of Dulwich: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, for introducing this debate. I will speak very briefly about human trafficking or, as our Prime Minister describes it, “modern day slavery”. Most people who have been trafficked into the United Kingdom have been tricked into coming here with the offer of work and the hope of making a better future for themselves. Instead, they are exploited and abused in brothels, in agriculture, as domestic servants, cultivating cannabis, and so on. Trafficking is not primarily an issue of immigration. Rather, as the Home Secretary said recently, it is “international organised crime”. By giving the Immigration Minister lead responsibility for tackling human trafficking, 4 July 2013 : Column 1377 the Government’s approach unfortunately tends more towards the immigration aspects than the criminal justice response to trafficking. The UK Border Agency is the body responsible for deciding whether there are grounds for believing a person to be trafficked. It holds this responsibility for all cases where the person comes from outside the EU. The UK Human Trafficking Centre makes the decision in all other cases. I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm exactly which of the new immigration entities within the Home Office has taken over this responsibility following the break-up of the UK Border Agency, announced in March. In 2012, two-thirds of all trafficking referrals were decided by the UK Border Agency, which is unsurprising since most victims come from outside the EU. The involvement of immigration officials in deciding who is and who is not a victim of trafficking and who is eligible for support under the national referral mechanism is problematic. It creates the potential for confusion between the processes and criteria for decisions on immigration and those that should be followed when determining if someone is a victim of trafficking. I was pleased to hear the recent announcement that from 1 April the team within the UKBA that deals with human trafficking would, “be exclusively dedicated to that task and will not combine its work in this area with any other”.—[ Official Report , 21/3/13; col. 669.] This is a very positive step forward in addressing this inherent conflict of interest. However, even if there is no longer the possibility of individual officials handling both trafficking and non-trafficking cases, there remains the potential for a conflict of interest in the institution as a whole. As the Centre for Social Justice said in a report published in March: “The fact that any potential victim is required to make their welfare case to the very agency that may at the same time be considering their immigration status is a denial of the right to have an independent decision concerning whether they have been trafficked”. Many NGOs express a lack of faith in the decisions made by the UK Border Agency, and all the judicial reviews undertaken in relation to decisions under the national referral mechanism since 2009 have been in relation to decisions made by the UK Border Agency. Many support organisations report reluctance from victims to enter the formal referral process out of a fear of immigration authorities. The recent report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights on the rights of unaccompanied migrant children expressed concern, saying: “The low level of NRM determinations by the immigration authorities fails to dispel perceptions of an inherent conflict of interest, which could undermine goodwill towards the mechanism and put trust in the system at risk”. This is the heart of the problem. There is undoubtedly a key role for the Immigration Service to play in identifying potential victims of trafficking as they pass through our borders, and in assessing claims for asylum. However, these vital roles must not be compromised by other immigration priorities, nor should they be allowed to overshadow the true nature of trafficking as a question of criminal activity 4 July 2013 : Column 1378 and exploitation. Victims of trafficking should not be afraid to come forward or to seek support out of fear of deportation. Effective immigration controls are necessary for maintaining national security and developing our business and economic interests but they must not prevent us offering support and sanctuary to those who most need it. 3.09 pm Lord Rosser: My Lords, I, too, would like to extend my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, for securing this debate. We all have a direct interest in ensuring our national security. Indeed, the protection and security of our citizens is the number one priority for any Government. The Motion refers to the relationship between effective immigration controls and the interests of the security of the United Kingdom. I will largely confine my comments to that specific issue. Although opinions might vary as to what constitutes effective immigration controls, there must be question marks over the effectiveness of the current arrangements when judged against the criteria of their importance to national security and the maintenance of that security. The issue of national security and, more particularly, border security was referred to in the Government’s 2011-12Annual Report on the National Security Strategy and Strategic Defence and Security Review. The report said: “Increased use of biometrics in support of asylum, visa and biometric residence permit applications provides tighter border controls to identify those who pose a threat to the UK”. It went on to say: “The use of technology and intelligence to check people and goods remains key to tackling the range of border security threats. Improvements in this area … include a continuing increase in coverage of routes and data acquired by e-Borders. Since April 2012, e-Borders acquires 100% of data for non-EEA flights. From 25th July 2012 … airlines required by law to provide data to e-Borders may be denied authority to carry to the UK specified foreign nationals who pose a terrorist threat”. The annual report also referred to continuing work on the development of the Border Policing Command as part of the National Crime Agency, ahead of the formal creation of the NCA. No doubt if there is anything further of substance to report on this continuing work, the Minister will give us an update when he responds to this debate. The splitting off of the Border Force from the United Kingdom Border Agency was announced by the Government in March last year. Since then, the performance of the agency appears to have deteriorated, with growing delays in dealing with asylum cases, visas and foreign criminals. Claims that the asylum backlog had been cleared lacked credibility, as the Government had simply written off some 100,000 cases without proper checks. In March this year, the Government announced further changes to the border agency, splitting up its activities into two entities within the Home Office. What difference, if any, these further changes will make remains to be seen. The reality is that enforcement has got worse, visa delays have got worse and 50% fewer people are refused entry at ports and borders. 4 July 2013 : Column 1379 The number of people absconding through Heathrow passport control has trebled, and the number being caught afterwards has halved. The number of foreign prisoners deported has dropped by 16% and there has also been a big drop in the number of employers being fined for employing illegal workers. A recent Commons Select Committee report showed that following the Government’s splitting up of the Border Agency in March last year, there was a 20% increase in the backlog of asylum cases in three months, a 53% increase in the number of asylum cases waiting more than six months compared with the previous year, an increase in delays for some in-country visa applications compared with the previous three months and 59,000 cases not getting even as far as being entered on the database. The committee said that 28,000 visa applications were not processed on time in one three-month period. That means that two-thirds of visa applications were not processed on time. What of course contributed to the difficulties was the impact and method of the implementation of the Government’s changes. The financial cuts of more than a third will certainly not have enhanced national security, which is an important part of the subject matter of this debate. There is immigration that works for Britain and immigration that does not. We support policies to bring down the pace of migration—particularly low-skilled migration—through stronger controls on people coming to do low-skilled jobs and action against bogus colleges. We need proper training programmes to help the young unemployed get into the sectors that are recruiting most from abroad—programmes such as Care First, which the Government abolished. More needs to be done to cut illegal immigration. By definition, this can have an adverse impact on national security since the required checks and controls, however technologically advanced, cannot be undertaken. The Government’s net migration target is not targeting the right things. Much of the drop since the election comes because more British citizens are leaving the country and fewer are coming home. Most of the rest is accounted for by falling numbers of foreign students. The Government are targeting university students and entrepreneurs but ignoring illegal immigration, which is of course outside the target. Illegal immigration is getting worse, with fewer people stopped, more absconding, fewer deported and backlogs of information on cases not pursued. Illegal immigration is not exactly being deterred by the continuing exploitation of migrant workers, which also undercuts local workers. Stronger action is needed, which means national minimum wage regulations which can be made to stick, with better enforcement and higher fines, and a register to tackle rogue landlords. Pulling out of the social chapter and co-operation on policing and justice measures, as the Government appear to want to do, will not make it any easier to manage and control migration, including illegal immigration. No one would wish to suggest for one moment that this Government, or indeed any Government, do not take their national security responsibilities seriously or fail to give this the highest priority. Effective immigration control is one of the building blocks that must be in place to ensure that as 4 July 2013 : Column 1380 much as can reasonably and effectively be done to protect the security of our country and our citizens is being done. However, the reality is that the present arrangements are not as effective as they could and should be or indeed, in fairness, as effective as I imagine the Government want them to be. 3.16 pm The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach): My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, sat down rather promptly, so I apologise for not having my speech quite to hand. I wondered when he was going to stop flinging around data which I scarcely recognise from my experience as a Home Office Minister—some of them are open to challenge. I would rather concentrate on the theme of the debate, which has been useful because it has shown the background against which all immigration policy has to be conducted. I thank my noble friend Lord Marlesford for tabling the debate. The relationship between effective immigration controls and the interests of national security is a key focus for the Government. Securing the border is a major challenge each day and needs an effective and efficient organisation with a real focus on law enforcement and security driving it forward. Intelligence is also key in strengthening border and immigration processes—a number of noble Lords referred to that. My noble friend was particularly eloquent about the vulnerability of a liberal democracy such as ours to threats from authoritarian or theocratic states and jihadists. Border transformation is a key focus for the Government. Maintaining a secure border is about detection, interruption, disruption and prevention as far upstream in the process as possible. It is about making sure that we are in the right place at the right time, with the right information, to stop the threat at source before it even reaches our shores. The work that we do overseas is vital to maintain our strong border. At our embassies and high commissions, staff deal with large volumes of applications to travel to the United Kingdom. Biometric visas are a vital step in maintaining a secure border. I think that the development of biometric visas has been widely welcomed by all in this debate. We keep our visa regime under constant review to ensure that it is in line with risk and remains the most secure in the world. The UK’s Risk And Liaison Overseas Network, RALON, works with airlines overseas in a training and advisory capacity in relation to the adequacy of documents held by passengers seeking to travel to the UK. While RALON officers have no legal powers, their role allows them to remind carriers of potential financial penalties if they allow boarding to somebody who may be inadmissible to the UK. As a consequence of their interventions, around 8,000 passengers were denied boarding in 2011-12. Equally importantly, RALON assists local authorities in the identification of facilitators and racketeers involved in the organised movement of inadequately documented passengers, identifying and leading or supporting criminal investigations overseas and in the UK. We also have a robust visa application process. The Home Office refused more than 330,000 visa applications last year, playing a key role in ensuring that only 4 July 2013 : Column 1381 genuine travellers are granted a right to enter the UK, and we are committed to providing an ever improving service to support this. We have already introduced a number of service enhancements to ensure a good customer experience and are constantly seeking improvements. Border technology is an integral tool in helping to protect the UK against potential acts of terrorism, serious crime and abuses of the immigration system—it was mentioned by my noble friend Lady Hamwee. When we are able to assess passengers and crew in advance of travelling, it greatly assists our ability to control borders. Our technology, combined with our robust visa regime, means better protection and a stronger border than ever before. We continue to see the benefits of advanced passenger data collection on both inbound and outbound journeys. It provides early warning of the arrival of people of interest and the departure of individuals giving concern from a security, immigration or customs perspective. We now check the movements of more than 148 million passengers and crew a year from passenger information provided by 147 carriers on 4,790 routes into the UK. Since 2005, we have collected and analysed data on almost 600 million passengers and crew movements. My noble friend Lord Hodgson talked about the scale of what we are dealing with in this hugely mobile world. These figures give us an indication of the sheer capacity that we require to keep control of our borders. Border Force was created on 1 March 2012 as a separate operational command within the Home Office with direct ministerial oversight—as has been correctly pointed out, it is headed up by Vice-Admiral Montgomery—separating border control functions from the wider immigration functions of the Home Office. The aim is to bring a genuine law enforcement culture to Border Force. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, expressed some concern about the different elements of responsibility within the command structure of immigration and migration control policy. However, we believe that properly focused management is an important aspect of our responsibility to maintain a secure border. Border Force continues to make a significant contribution to cutting crime. In 2012-13 we made nearly 70,000 seizures, including more than £200 million-worth of smuggled tobacco and cigarettes, and more than £100 million-worth of smuggled alcohol. Many people are still trying to enter the UK illegally or without the appropriate documentation. Border Force refused entry to almost 10,000 people at ports in 2012, and another 4,000 were stopped at juxtaposed controls in France and Belgium before they could even enter the country. In 2012-13, for those passengers for whom we have measured the queuing times, more than 99% were cleared through immigration control within our published service standards, which is exceeding the target. I frequently travel by air and I know how frustrating it is to arrive at an airport at the end of journey feeling a little bit tired, but the new system is providing a much faster throughput than was the case a few years ago. As the Minister in the Home Office with responsibility for identity, I listened carefully to my noble friend 4 July 2013 : Column 1382 Lord Marlesford, as I always do; indeed, I always listen to my noble friend Lord Selsdon when he talks about identity. My noble friend Lord Marlesford raises a valid point in relation to dual nationals and of how the authorities keep tabs on the movements of people who travel using one passport to get out of the country and another passport to get into the country. This is an issue worthy of further consideration, and I can tell my noble friend that I will think through what he says very carefully before returning to him on this matter. A number of noble Lords asked about exit checks. The Government have made a commitment to reintroduce exit checks by 2015. We are currently exploring how advance passenger information can support this and what, if any, further changes are necessary to deliver the exit checks and our e-borders capability. We continue to see the benefits of advance passenger data, providing early warning of the arrival and departure of individuals giving concern from a security, immigration or customs perspective. There have been a number of noble Lords who have mentioned the announcement on 26 March by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary, which I repeated here. It laid out her reasons for dissolving the UK Border Agency. I think that the debate has recognised that the UK Border Agency was not working. One of the aims of the restructure was to split the work of the agency to create two entities with two distinct structures. In its place will be an immigration and visa service and an immigration law enforcement organisation; two commands within the Home Office and directly accountable to Ministers in the exactly the same way as Border Force is directly accountable to Ministers. The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, points out the importance of people and direction in, if I may say so, leadership in making sure that these forces are effective. I might not share all of the analysis in his critique, but he rightly identifies the work of John Vine and how invaluable his critical assessment of performance in those agencies is proving to be. By creating two entities instead of one, we will be able to create distinct cultures. The first is a high-volume service that makes high-quality decisions about who comes here, with a culture of customer satisfaction for businessmen and visitors who want to come here legally. The second is an organisation that has law enforcement at its heart and gets tough on those who break our immigration laws. Physical embarkation controls are carried out on a targeted, intelligence-led basis. Border Force and immigration enforcement officers perform checks targeted at immigration and customs crime, including identifying overstayers and detecting smuggled cash proceeds of crime. During 2012, electronic exit checks resulted in 566 police arrests on outbound passengers. The Home Office has already shown that it can deliver for the country, despite budget pressures. Immigration reforms are working. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, that we have achieved net migration cuts of more than one-third. The evidence shows that our policy reforms are not inhibiting growth or putting people off coming to the UK. I reiterate that there are no restrictions on student numbers coming to this country. We are striving to ensure that the brightest 4 July 2013 : Column 1383 and best come to the UK to study. Increases in visa fees will ensure that those coming to the UK contribute accordingly. Fee increases will be matched by substantial improvements to visa processing services to ensure that the UK remains open for business. There was a 5% increase in visas issued for skilled individuals under Tier 2 in the year to March 2013, showing that we are attracting the brightest and best to the UK and supporting the growth agenda. That brings me on to what has been probably one of the most remarkable speeches that we have heard today, that of my noble friend Lord Hodgson. He put the current management of our borders and the conduct of our immigration policy in the perspective of the sheer scale of recent migration and the global nature of the world in which we live. There is much to debate in the issues that he raises, not least the whole thrust of the argument in my comment that there was a 5% increase in visas issued for skilled individuals under Tier 2. That is tremendously important for the UK economy, but what is the corresponding impact on the developing world? There is a strong argument for saying that Britain as a force for good in the world has a huge role, in soft diplomatic terms, in providing a place where people can come to study and take those skills away or indeed develop them here within our own community. I will address a few points made by my noble friend Lord Marlesford. He made a strong attack, and one or two others mentioned this, on what he perceived to be corruption within our border force—not the Border Force, but the old border agency. Our corruption strategy is focused on proactively reducing the motive and opportunity for corruption and fraud by increasing our deterrence and prevention activity. In creating an anticorruption culture, we are enhancing our capability proactively to identify more corrupt activity, and we are creating a centre of investigative excellence in anticorruption by developing the skills and capabilities of the investigators and enhancing the processes utilised for the management of anticorruption activity. My noble friend also asked a number of questions about e-Borders. To date, e-Borders has cost the UK £475 million. The activity of e-Borders has now been absorbed within the wider and more comprehensive border systems programme for which Sir Charles Montgomery is the senior responsible officer. The e-Borders element of the programme forms part of a procurement proposal that is likely to last 12 to 14 months. Subject to approvals contracts, new supplies should be in place by late 2014. Thereafter, the service will move across to the newly contracted suppliers over a six- to nine-month period. The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, asked about border policing command. This will brigade the National Crime Agency’s operational response overseas and at the UK border into a single entity. The border policing command will better co-ordinate intelligence and operational activity through co-location within Border Force, Special Branch, and other partners and intelligence teams at the border to identify more criminal groups operating across the UK border and to increase disruptions. It will lead proactive investigations at the border, such as corruption and evasion of controls at 4 July 2013 : Column 1384 small ports, that will limit the ability of criminals to move and operate across the UK border. There are a few points in noble Lords’ speeches to which I would like to refer. I mentioned that my noble friend Lord Marlesford talked about the anarchy of the failed state and the threat that it posed to this country. He felt that the quality of our staff in the border service was not adequate. I think that I answered that in describing the new leadership that is being provided through this. This is the right approach for the future of our border services. My noble friend Lady Hamwee emphasised the use of intelligence to combat crime and a terrorist threat. My noble friend Lord Bridgeman asked about the attraction of the UK for Asians, but mentioned how within communities it was quite easy for those who came here and were not desirable to get lost. This is an issue of which we are very conscious. My noble friend Lord Hodgson’s speech was a remarkable contribution. To my noble friend Lord McColl of Dulwich I say that the team to deal with trafficking remains in place. We recognise that this is an important issue, and we want to make sure that we have effective controls in detecting trafficking and prosecuting those responsible for it. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Rosser—perhaps I surprise him again—in saying that intelligence and technology are the heart of secure borders. They must be the heart of what we do. I add to that good leadership of the people engaged in this task, which I take from the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. Effective immigration controls in the interests of national security are key. Work to secure our border begins far beyond the UK’s shores. We work around the world to ensure that we are in the right place at the right time with the right information to stop the source of the threat before it reaches our shores. 3.38 pm Lord Marlesford: My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for contributing to an important debate on a big and important subject. It represents a huge problem and a huge challenge. I point out to the Minister that this Government have been in power for three years and it is about time that we started getting more results. The situation is still very unsatisfactory. Otherwise, we would not have had only in March the dissolution of the whole border agency. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, condemned accurately and in detail a lot of the symptoms, but I hope that he agrees that a lot of them are a legacy of the policies that his Government left behind and that we have been too slow to change. I am not convinced that they have yet been given sufficiently radical treatment. The committee of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, and my noble friend Lord Hodgson could contribute usefully in arriving at a good solution. Putting the admiral in charge of the Border Force is very sensible, but the rest of it seems still very amorphous. I suggest that the Government produce a Green Paper to describe how the border agency, which has been taken back into the Home Office will be organised. It will probably need some legislation—he has not said that—and this must 4 July 2013 : Column 1385 be closely looked at by Parliament before it is done, otherwise the same mistakes will be made. My noble friend Lady Hamwee made a very important point about the new era of electronic communications, which has given a different dimension to some of the problems of ensuring our national security through the borders and elsewhere. It is not surprising. Everyone now makes a tremendous issue of the scale at which Governments intercept communications. It is not surprising that they do so, and it would be quite wrong if they did not because the scale of communications has gone up so much. Everybody now can communicate in very sophisticated ways, which enables those who are inclined to crime or terrorism to do things that previously they could not do. The technological revolution in communications has greatly increased the danger from terrorism. The problem is enormous. There is a lot more work to be done, and I hope that the Government will, after three years of cogitation, consult Parliament quite closely on what they propose to do before they do it. Motion agreed. Immigration Rules: Impact on Families Question for Short Debate 3.41 pm Asked By Baroness Hamwee To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have any plans to review the social and economic impact on families of recent changes to the immigration rules. Baroness Hamwee: My Lords, I could fill my limited minutes and everybody else’s with examples of the impact of the family migration rules introduced a year ago this month. The media covered some of them when the all-party group launched the report by the inquiry that I had the privilege to chair. Those affected tell better than I can the outrage, confusion, puzzlement and anguish of British citizens and taxpayers who had never for a moment expected that their country would put such obstacles in the way of them living with their family in that country. The All-Party Group on Migration is supported by the Migrants’ Rights Network, which wrote the report, and I thank it very warmly. The report looks at changes to the rules that had previously required someone seeking to sponsor a non-EEA partner and any children to demonstrate the ability to maintain their family without recourse to public funds. Immediately before last July, that was equivalent to income support—about £5,500. A number of sources and a range of evidence of income were counted. Now the minimum income requirement is £18,600, a level that is not attained by getting on for half of British workers, and there are considerable regional variations. The minimum income requirement is greater when there are children and can be met only through limited sources. Those who are successful at the initial stage of application must meet other criteria at later stages, but it is too soon to see their impact. 4 July 2013 : Column 1386 There is also a block—I use that term advisedly—on applications by adult dependent relatives to join British citizens and permanent residents here. They have to demonstrate a very high level of dependency, one which suggests to me that they would not in fact be able to travel, and that the sponsor’s financial support is not sufficient to provide care in their own country. Will the Minister give an example of when an application by anyone in this group could be successful? If you have the money to meet the requirements to come here, you have the money to be supported in your original country. The Migration Advisory Committee was asked about the income needed to support applicants, “without them becoming a burden on the state”. That is an economic remit, and it gave economic advice, but as the MAC recognised, there are also legal, moral, and social dimensions. Our report calls for an independent review as to these impacts. Noble Lords will be familiar with the work of Oxford University’s Centre on Migration, Policy and Society. COMPAS is just the sort of organisation I have in mind to do such a review. It also calls for a review of the income level and how the system is working. I am well aware that the Government have said in recent answers to Parliamentary Questions that the rules are working as intended. They say that they will keep the impact under review without having any proposal to conduct an immediate review. A study by Middlesex University suggests that preventing up to 17,800 migrant partners—the Government’s estimate—from coming and working here will cost the UK as much as £850 million over 10 years in lost economic activity. There is no evidence that most migrant partners have claimed public funds during their first five years here. Most, in fact, work and pay tax, and want to do so. Conversely, excluding a partner may increase claims on the state. A single parent may need support, which would not be necessary if there were two parents here to share the care of the child. Both sets of rules are driving out some of the very people who contribute significantly to our society. Of course, that is a double win if this is a numbers game. The reality of the finances of many families does not fall neatly within narrow criteria. What about an incoming partner’s employability and earnings or indeed a significant job offer? Surely it would be sensible to review the exclusion of these. A lot of employment does not come within tier 2, an alternative route which is often suggested as being available. What about self-employment? It is subject to peaks and troughs and it is not always evidenced in the easy ways that the Government would want; but as a country we want entrepreneurial spirits. What about the length of time that savings must be held and their form when an applicant relies on savings in lieu of earnings? This affects people over a range of circumstances. I have to say that I think anyone holding an awful lot of liquid cash is likely not to be handling his assets very well. I have just heard of a high-net-worth couple that we would surely want within our tax base here who have relocated to another country because of the rules. I urge the Government to review the application of 4 July 2013 : Column 1387 non-cash assets. What about the assistance available from family members—members who feel it natural and who are desperate to help their younger family members? This is felt particularly acutely by grandparents who want to be part of their grandchildren’s lives but cannot if what they can provide by way of accommodation and money cannot be counted to meet the requirements. A child’s early months and years are hugely significant in his development, not merely—if “merely” is the right word—his well-being. In another part of the legislative forest, a child’s welfare by statute is paramount; so says the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Noble Lords are of course very familiar with Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights and with Section 55. It was as recently as Tuesday that we discussed in debate on the Children and Families Bill a government clause providing for a presumption that the involvement of a parent in the life of a child will further the child’s welfare. The four UK Children’s Commissioners support an independent review and that the obligation to secure a child’s rights to a family life be reflected. The Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration recommends that the best interests of the child should be referred to expressly in decisions. We now even seem to see parents who are not allowed to live here being refused a visitor’s visa. It is no answer that the Briton should take his British children and live abroad if that is not the best for his family. I heard someone affected by these rules on a radio phone-in say that he was building up a business here—and that there just was not much call for mortgage-broking in Nigeria. There were some changes in April to the evidence of means that it is required but—this point applies much more widely than to this type of application—the evidential requirements are not sufficiently clear or straightforward for applicants to understand. I do not think it is appropriate that we have managed to create a system where the ordinary applicant has to find legal advice. Indeed, it is a sorry state of affairs if the scope for flexibility and discretion in an assessment is constrained by the abilities of entry clearance officers and other immigration staff. I would like to talk about the time taken for dealing with applications and appeals, whether the objectives of promoting integration are achieved, whether the rules support family life—which is clearly an objective of the Government—and about the amount of taxpayers’ money which is being spent, and will be spent, on government lawyers defending decisions, but I have to leave time for others who I hope will talk about the real human dilemmas. We have a higher income threshold than any other major western country except Norway. We are out of step with the rest of the EU. Is it right that if, for practical reasons, you are not able as a couple, one of you not being an EEA citizen, to move to Ireland or France to live and work there for just a few months and then come to the UK under the treaty as EU citizens, you are denied the opportunity to live in this EU country as a family? We live in an interconnected world, a term which was used in the previous debate. British citizens fall in 4 July 2013 : Column 1388 love with people from Canada, Bangladesh, Costa Rica, Chile and Australia. We want to protect our reputation, a point which is often raised in connection with student visas. We want to protect our values, care for our parents, and have a family life. One of those values is fairness. These rules are not regarded as fair by so many of our fellow citizens. I therefore repeat the inquiry’s call for a review because of, as I have said, the outrage, confusion, puzzlement and anguish that are being felt. 3.52 pm Lord Parekh: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for introducing this debate on changes to the Immigration Rules. I will concentrate on three areas that worry me greatly. The first has to do with the way in which one is not allowed to bring one’s parents and grandparents from the country of one’s origin. The new Immigration Rules require that if your parents or grandparents are over the age of 65, ill, disabled or otherwise unable to function, you may not bring them so long as they have a sibling in the country of origin who can look after them, or can hire a nurse who can look after them. I find this simply extraordinary for half a dozen important reasons. First, looking after one’s parents or grandparents is a privilege to be enjoyed and an obligation to be discharged. It is not something that you outsource to your siblings or a nurse. Secondly, it is not just a question of physical care, which a sibling or nurse can provide; it is about emotional reassurance and support during the last days of one’s parents or grandparents, which only you can provide. Thirdly, people would leave the country if confronted with the choice of either going to their countries of origin to look after their parents or staying here. In fact, we heard a moving submission from the British Medical Association written by Stephanie Creighton on behalf of a large number of doctors and consultants, many of them saying that they would leave the country. In fact, a couple of them have left already, simply because they could not bring their parents to live with them here. Fourthly, I find the whole thing quite pointless. If our concern is to ensure that no demands are made on public funds, that is already taken care of. If people here bring parents or grandparents are prepared to look after them—they used to be able to do so—those parents or grandparents will not be dependent on public funds: in which case, what is the point of this rule? If this were the only alternative for controlling immigration, I would at least concede the point of it. Canada does not follow this policy. It has a super visa under which parents and grandparents can be brought in for two years until such time as their right to permanent settlement is decided. In the United States there is no problem. In fact, a few years ago, when I tried to bring my parents here—they were in their 80s—my brother, who is settled in the United States, found it much easier for them to spend their last few years with him. More importantly, if our concern is to create a culture in which the aged are respected, I should have 4 July 2013 : Column 1389 thought that letting people bring in their parents and grandparents would be ideal. It sets an example to their children and to wider society and helps to shift the culture in which the old are seen as a liability or a burden. So far, I have accepted the terminology of the rules, which talk about parents and grandparents. There is a complete embargo on uncles and aunts. I come from a civilisation where very often uncles perform more or less the same role as parents, as they did in my case. If your parents are dead or disabled, you might feel that you have incurred the same moral obligation and emotional commitment to your uncle as you have to your parents. There is no reason why one should impose a complete embargo. Immigration officers should be required to look at the nature of the relationship. If the relationship with an uncle or aunt is of a kind that one would recognise as filial, they should qualify. My first concern is therefore simply this, and I really want to emphasise it: not allowing one to bring in parents and grandparents as long as there is someone else to look after them is simply morally unacceptable. It is also unworthy of a civilised society. We are asking people to outsource their obligations to somebody else and saying, “Do not worry, pass it on to somebody”. That is a culture that we should not aim to encourage. My second difficulty with the Immigration Rules involves family visitor appeals. These are being disallowed and people whose applications have failed are being told that they can apply again. Family visitor appeals make up about one-third of all immigration appeals and a large number of them succeed. The Government say that they succeed because very often new information is provided at the appeal stage, but as I look at some of the applications I do not find that. In fact, what is called new information is often the exposure of implicit bias, important facts that were mentioned but neglected, or bureaucratic irregularity that is pointed out. It is certainly true, as the Government have said, that in some cases new information was provided, but the House should bear in mind that this is not the only factor. Other factors that appear at the appeal stage include the way in which certain biases appear. It is therefore important that we should allow family visitor appeals. My third concern is one which the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, rightly pointed out: the way in which one is allowed to bring in spouses. This is a long story and many of us have spent at least 30 or 35 years fighting for the right to bring spouses. The Government require an income of at least £18,600. If a child is involved, it is £22,400. On current estimates, just under 50% of people simply would not qualify, because they do not earn that kind of money. For some of us in this House, like me, a university professor, £18,000 is not even a quarter of what one earns, but that is not what schoolteachers, nurses, UK Border Agency officers or even some sections of retired people earn. If we insist on this sum we will disqualify half the ethnic minority population, as well as many others. Equally importantly, income fluctuates. In a volatile economy, jobs come and go. I might have a job paying £18,600 today, but tomorrow it might be much less. Nor do the regulations take into account the likely income of the spouse, or the way in which, among 4 July 2013 : Column 1390 ethnic minorities and elsewhere, families generally chip in with their savings. I very much hope that the Government will reconsider this figure. 4 pm Lord Teverson: My Lords, I pay tribute to my noble friend Lady Hamwee for bringing this issue to the fore and for her work on the inquiry that she led. One of the big differences between the United Kingdom and, say, Egypt, is that there is a very broad political consensus. Although we may argue between different sides of the House, and on occasion even more on this side of the House, at least we have fundamental principles that we believe in. Whether we are Liberal Democrats, social democrats, socialists, libertarians or Conservatives, we have certain values in common. They include, perhaps, the market economy, democracy, the rule of law, and all the things that bind us together and ensure that we have a stable, long-term democracy. Two elements of that come within the area of family life. One is that the state should not determine who you can or cannot marry. The second is that families ought to be able to live together; the state should always allow them to live together. We can all think of exceptions. Sham marriages, of which there have been many, should be prevented; forced marriages are illegal and wrong; and the state splits up families when there is criminality by sending criminals to penitentiaries and prison, which clearly is right. However, whether families choose to live together, and who we marry, should be up to us as citizens. In particular, they are our rights as British citizens. We have heard some of the background figures. Some 5 million UK citizens live abroad. We think of all the citizens from other countries who live here, but 5 million of us are elsewhere. Every year something like 150,000 of our citizens migrate from the UK for more than one year. They are not necessarily retired people—or gangsters, who used to go to Spain before the European arrest warrant but now go further abroad. Some 90% of them are of working age. Perhaps more importantly for this debate, two-thirds of them are single; they are not married when they go. We also know—I know this from my own family—that people go abroad, to university and to study, and they go abroad on gap years. Those areas are expanding. What happens to the 90% of young, single people when they are working abroad and wanting to get on with life? Strangely enough, they tend to meet people and fall in love with them. We should celebrate that. Strangely enough, a large number of them get married and, praise the Lord, have children. This has happened in my extended family, and it will be something that increases. However, as we have heard, it is estimated that some 47% of these people would not have an income that would enable them to come back as a family unit, with or without their children, to the United Kingdom. I will give two examples that I have come up against. I went to Buenos Aires over Christmas and the new year, because two members of my extended family had got married and had a son, who now has Argentinian as well as British citizenship. They invited us out there, and we met another British citizen who had married a 4 July 2013 : Column 1391 Brazilian woman. Now they as a family can no longer come back to the United Kingdom. I have had correspondence from someone whose family I knew a long time ago and who now lives in Canada. She is now married. She cannot come back to the United Kingdom with her spouse because they are not able to fulfil the income requirements. We talk about those bad guys, the tax exiles, but we now have marriage exiles from this country, and children of British citizens who cannot come back and grow up in British society if they want to. We have British grandparents in this country who are unable to meet, look after and nurture their grandchildren and to see them grow up. That is the outcome of these regulations and of the legislation behind them. Where do we look for our guidance? I looked back at some of the 2010 election manifestos. First, I looked at the Conservative manifesto, and I would like to bring the House’s attention to it. Right at the beginning it mentioned families. On page 41, and I am utterly with my Conservative coalition brothers and sisters on this, it stated: “We will … make Britain the most family-friendly country in Europe … Strong families are the bedrock of a strong society … We will help families with all the pressures they face … We will not be neutral on this … Britain’s families will get our full backing across all”— I emphasise “all”— “our policies”. That clearly includes immigration and migration. Those points were reflected in the coalition agreement, which stated on page 14: “The Government believes that strong and stable families of all kinds are the bedrock of a strong and stable society. That is why we need to make our society more family friendly”. We are failing in this area, particularly on this issue. It will be a growing one, and it will affect all our families. It affects mine, although I am pleased to say that my wife’s son-in-law managed to gain entry before these arrangements came into play. I am an absolutist in this area, and I ask the Minister: do the Government, too, believe that the state should not determine who can marry or whether families can stay together? 4.07 pm Lord Kilclooney: My Lords, in the 20 years that I was a Member of the other place, I never had a visa application case to deal with. Of course, that is easily explained. Representing Northern Ireland during the 30 years of the Troubles, I found that no foreigners wanted to come and live in Northern Ireland, so no visas were required. We got the odd foreigner coming up from the Republic of Ireland, but otherwise none at all. How times have changed. Immigration is now a big challenge in Northern Ireland, as it is elsewhere in the United Kingdom. We have tens of thousands of foreign people now living in Northern Ireland, from Lithuania, Poland and especially Portugal. The report that we have before us today from the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Migration is an excellent publication. All-party groups have had some criticism in the media in recent weeks, especially about staff, access to this building et cetera. However, I think 4 July 2013 : Column 1392 that this is one of the finest examples of work by an all-party parliamentary group. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, and her colleagues on the good work of their group, because it is a thorough, detailed and excellent report and certainly enhances the good name of all-party parliamentary groups. I want to stress several points in the report before I go on to one particular example, without mentioning names. One is the delay in deciding these applications. I know of a case where a visa for a spouse, married to a United Kingdom citizen in Northern Ireland, was applied for in February 2012. The decision was made by the Secretary of State in May 2013—15 months later. That is an intolerable delay for a family unit as they wait to find out whether or not they will be awarded a visa. On page 23 of the report, a submission from the Belfast Migrant Centre refers to the problem of the minimum income requirement, which is of course uniform throughout the United Kingdom. However, as the centre points out, average wages vary throughout the different regions of the United Kingdom, whether it is Scotland, Wales, the north of England or Northern Ireland. Is it fair to have a standard minimum income requirement when average wages vary in different regions of the United Kingdom? I know personally the people involved in a case where a girl from Australia, loyal to Her Majesty the Queen, applied for a spouse’s visa. She had been working in the United Kingdom and had a work permit since 2008, five years ago. She is the unit sister of a 38-bed nursing home in Northern Ireland and went back to her home country of Australia in February 2011 to marry a United Kingdom citizen from Northern Ireland. He is from the third generation running a family firm in Northern Ireland, formed in 1975, which now employs 25 people. There is therefore no issue of a minimum income requirement in this case. However, the Secretary of State surprisingly reached the conclusion that she is married to a British citizen—which, of course, is correct—and went on to state in the decision: “As both speak English there are no insurmountable obstacles to both travelling to Australia together—as such your application fails”. It is unbelievable that that could happen. Someone who employs 25 people and who has been living in Northern Ireland for seven or eight years goes back to Australia to get married and is told that the application for a visa to live in the United Kingdom has failed. It is terrible for the married couple and has very adverse implications for a successful family firm. While thousands of EU citizens flow into all parts of the United Kingdom each year—a net inflow of 200,000 per year, some of whom now probably work in the Home Office assessing visa applications—people from Australia, New Zealand and Canada, subjects loyal to Her Majesty the Queen, are being refused visas. Is it any wonder that support for UKIP is increasing as more and more people realise the implications of the present government policies on immigration and visas? I appeal to the Government to accept the recommendation of the all-party group that the whole procedure needs to be reviewed. 4 July 2013 : Column 1393 4.13 pm Lord Judd: My Lords, I, too, congratulate the noble Baroness on having introduced the debate. She was right to do so. It is very important that this matter should receive scrutiny and consideration in this House. I am deeply concerned by the situation in which we find ourselves because it seems to me that when we talk about the kind of society we want to be in—we spend an awful lot of time talking about that—what really matters, and the values which we have as central to that society, should be evident in all aspects of our life. People, however reluctantly, can understand the need for immigration controls and immigration policy. That is true of this country and of our friends abroad. What upsets people is when, within that immigration policy, we do not follow through the logic which we say is vital to maintaining the values and behaviour which we see as being central to our nation. I am really very disturbed that we are speaking with forked tongues on the issue of family. We keep emphasising the importance of family in our own society, but it does not apply to people who have been allowed through the immigration system to come and join us and make a contribution to our society. Either the family matters or it does not. I found the evidence submitted by the BMA, to which my noble friend Lord Parekh has already referred, very interesting. It talks not just about the personal pressures but about the quality of work undertaken by doctors if they are surrounded by their family or if they are debarred from having their family with them. If we see these doctors as essential to the operation of our health service—and, my God, they make a huge contribution to our health and well-being—it is terribly important that family values should apply, to enable them to perform at their best. My noble friend, Lord Parekh, in a delightful but telling way, wove together the principle and practicalities of this. We all know, in our own families, how important grandparents are to the operation of the family, enabling mothers to work and running children to school and to their activities. Grandparents have a crucial part to play in the success of the family as part of society. It is shooting ourselves in the foot to say that we want people who are entitled to come through our immigration system, and to welcome them so long as they are making a full, positive contribution to our society, but then to deny those very aspects of life which will enable them to maximise their performance. It just does not make sense. I also want to pick up on the more difficult, contentious issue of the operation of our penal system. If people have had sentences over a certain period of time they are subject to deportation. I have seen too much evidence that the impact on the children is not taken into account in these decisions. Sometimes there is a quite cynical neglect of any consideration whatever of the children in the paperwork and the rest. We were pioneers—I repeat, pioneers—in the creation of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, in which, I am glad to say, the Conservative Party played a big part. We won great international esteem for the part we played, as I was saying the other night in our deliberations on the Children and Families Bill. We 4 July 2013 : Column 1394 have a long way to fall and I am afraid we are falling. What people judge us by is not what we said at the time of the convention’s creation but how we actually operate the convention, not only in detail but in spirit, in our own society and the way we go about organising our affairs. I am not going to say there have not been some marginal improvements, and of course there are some very fine people working in this area. However, are we absolutely certain that the child is central to our considerations in all the work of the UK Border Agency and all the work of the Home Office on deportation in connection with crime? That is what the convention, which we helped to draft, demands. Is the child central to our considerations? This needs to be taken very seriously indeed. In conclusion, all of us, whatever our party differences across the House, want to live in a nation that feels at peace with itself—a nation that is confident in the underlying principles in our society. We all want to be seen as a nation that is not only successful and achieving in materialist terms but whose characters of compassion, care and concern are self-evident in everything that we do and the way that we go about it. I am not denying the need for an immigration policy—of course I am not, it would be nonsense—but those principles, which are admittedly difficult and challenging, have to be seen as applying in the operation of that policy. I am glad that the noble Baroness has given us the opportunity to look at these issues. Some of them need to be examined very carefully indeed. 4.21 pm Lord Avebury: My Lords, a huge amount of concern has been expressed outside this House about the Government’s policy of making it more difficult for near relatives to join primary migrants who are settled in the UK, contrary to the declaration that my noble friend Lord Teverson quoted, which appears in both the Conservative manifesto and the coalition agreement, and states that, “strong and stable families ... are the bedrock of a strong and stable society”. Instead, the Government have divided husbands from wives, parents from children, and elderly dependants from those who want to look after them in their final years. They have weakened family unity and made it harder for migrants to contribute their full potential to our society. They are violating the right to family life and will face challenges, I hope, in the courts. The Government intend to narrow the permitted exceptions in Article 8 of the ECHR beyond what is permitted in the convention. However, whatever is written into our legislation may have no effect on the jurisprudence of the European Court. If it follows the existing practice of the court, it is a pointless exercise, but if it is more prescriptive, the Government risk a series of expensive cases in Strasbourg, which is already grossly overloaded. It has been almost impossible for a sponsor to bring an elderly parent to the UK following the amended rules that came into operation last July. From then until the end of October, only one visa was issued to a dependent relative, and, like my noble friend, I would like to know whether anyone else in this category has 4 July 2013 : Column 1395 got past the barriers since then. Is it necessary and proportionate to prevent a migrant looking after an elderly parent? In many cultures, as the noble Lord, Lord Parekh, emphasised, it is an exigent duty to look after your parents in their old age, and making that virtually impossible is doubly inhuman. Mrs M, aged 65, left her homeland in Iraq with her husband and they were living in Syria. A few years ago, Mr M died, leaving his widow entirely on her own. As the situation in Syria worsened, Mrs M applied to the UK consulate in Beirut to come here as the dependant of her two sons, both of whom are UK citizens. The brothers are poor but a well known charity stepped in to guarantee that Mrs M would be supported without recourse to public funds. When no reply was received to the application, the brothers asked me to help and I wrote to the Minister for Immigration in April. Two months later, I had received no reply, and I wrote again on 15 June. Today, exactly a year after the original application, her son got a refusal letter. So even where the financial and other conditions are satisfied, the Home Office avoids issuing the visa to an elderly dependant in a war zone. The committee chaired by my noble friend Lady Hamwee, who is to be warmly congratulated on such a professional job of work, found that 61% of British women citizens in work would not qualify to sponsor a non-EEA partner on the basis of their earnings. No account is taken of the provision of free accommodation by parents, other close relatives or an employer. The income threshold was also found to be discriminatory, because women’s earnings are 15% below men’s. The committee’s recommendations deserve sympathetic consideration, as do those of ILPA, BiD and the Migrants’ Rights Network. To make matters worse, legal aid is no longer available for appeals against refusal of visas for spouses, children and elderly dependants, in spite of the fact that some of these cases are far too complex to be dealt with adequately by litigants in person, as we heard on Tuesday from the Red Cross and UNHCR at a meeting in this House. Many will turn on European case law dealing with the right to family life, of which few non-lawyers would even be aware. I should like to give an illustration of this in the case of non-EEA victims of domestic abuse. They have a legal right to stay in the UK if they comply with Rule 289A of the Immigration Rules, which is explained in the 48 pages of guidance published under the imprint of the UKBA in April, even though it had been abolished a month earlier. On page 5 of that document, the applicant is told that she must also comply with E-DVILR, an appendix to the Immigration Rules, and other obscure requirements kick in for particular applicants. If the relationship is an informal one, the abused non-EEA partner is clearly even more vulnerable. The Black Women’s Rape Action Project says that the frequency of the abuse and the severity is often more extreme when the victim is an immigrant woman and even more so when she is not married and is in an informal relationship. Even worse, the victim’s presence in the UK becomes unlawful the moment she leaves the abuser. Informal relationship victims have nevertheless won cases before the First-tier Tribunal. I 4 July 2013 : Column 1396 would like to ask my noble friend whether the Government will accept those decisions and amend Rule 289A accordingly. The successive tightening of the screw on family migration, now being taken a stage further by the MoJ’s Transforming Legal Aid proposals, is not really aimed at saving money. It is part of the Government’s campaign to reduce net migration to below 100,000 by the time of the next election, an impossibility when at the same time we are seeking to attract more than the 206,000 students admitted last year. Family migrants accounted for under 10% of the total last year, but they and their British sponsors are being made to suffer in pursuit of what the Economist has called, “the Tories’ barmiest policy”. 4.27 pm Lord Taylor of Warwick: My Lords, I would like to add my thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for introducing this debate, and I thank her committee for its excellent report. “No blacks, no Irish, no dogs”; that was the sign in many windows in Britain in the late 1940s when my father was looking for accommodation. Growing up in Jamaica, he had thought of Britain as the mother land. After fighting for the British Army in the Second World War, he was shocked to be asked, when he came to Britain, when he would be going back home to the Caribbean. But after scoring a century for Warwickshire County Cricket Club he changed overnight from being described in the local Sports Argus as a “Jamaican immigrant” to “local Brummie hero”. Let us fast forward to August of last year. Instead of racist signs in windows, millions of British TV viewers and thousands in the Olympic stadium cheered a Somali immigrant running to double Olympic gold. What was also significant was that the man from Mogadishu, Mo Farah, was wearing a British vest. Today, many of Britain’s high flyers in public life, business, entertainment and sport are from immigrant backgrounds. This is why the all-party parliamentary group report is so important. It is not an inquiry just about a minority group; it is about the Britain of the future. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, and the noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney, have made the point that the report emphasises that there must be an independent review of the minimum income requirement, and the reasons for that are set out very eloquently. The rules are such that children, including British children and babies, are being separated from their families. We know that the formative years of any child’s life are the most crucial. It is easier to build a strong child than to repair a broken man. Keeping children away from their families is just storing up trouble for the future, as was so eloquently emphasised by the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Judd. What really concerns me is the context in which we are debating these matters. Only today the Home Office produced a report that talked about the negative impact of immigration. It used phrases such as “asylum dispersal areas”; for example, Bolton. What the report did not do was emphasise the positive impacts of immigration. For example, as the noble Lord, Lord Parekh, mentioned, there is evidence from the BMA 4 July 2013 : Column 1397 that the National Health Service has already lost some skilled foreign doctors because they have had to return overseas in order to care for elderly relatives. If you took away immigrants from the NHS and many of our public services, they would be in chaos. What worries me about the Home Office report is that it is really more about the coming election. It is creating an “us and them” attitude, which will play very much into the pathway of racist parties such as the EDL and the BNP. We need a society that comes together. We must argue and debate these matters in that context. The Prime Minister has described the Government’s immigration policy objective as, “good immigration, not mass immigration”. The Government believe, and I agree, that they can reduce overall net migration levels while attracting more of the “brightest and best” migrants whose presence is deemed most beneficial to the UK. But good immigration should also be fair immigration. There is worrying evidence that the recent changes to the Immigration Rules are separating families and depriving Britain of skilled professionals, such as doctors. The Government need to commission an independent review now. Yes, the rules need to be firm, but they also need to be fair. 4.32 pm Lord Roberts of Llandudno: My Lords, I wish that I had made any of the speeches that we have heard this afternoon. It has been a wonderful debate and we thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for making this possible. The report has emphasised the action that is making family life so much more difficult. I fear that the old British hospitality is becoming British hostility—that is how it looks to those overseas. There is a knee-jerk reaction to so much that happens and half-truths take over from positive, full, thorough-going reports. It seems that if you want to make your home here in the UK, it is an obstacle course now—a difficult and very unwelcoming situation. So much that we read in our newspapers seems to be there in order to create hostility and stir up opposition to people outside the UK. Of course, we are all immigrants. The English came to Wales, we came to England; we had 3,800 Welsh dairies in London. We have been a people who move, who are happy with each other, and so it should be today. I read one paper today and there were four stories about the immigrants who are coming and how unwelcome they are, with headlines such as, “Immigrants sponging off the taxpayer”. But the Office for National Statistics says that while 13% of UK taxpayers claim out-of-work benefits, only 7% of immigrants do. Another headline was, “EU migrants take our jobs”. But the facts are that nine out of 10 new jobs are taken by British nationals. We also hear that the epidemic of health tourists is costing us billions. However, the British Medical Journal reported that more Britons seek health advice overseas than people from overseas seek health treatment here in the UK. Scaremongering creates hostility, both for immigrants and British citizens. It has no place in a civilised society. 4 July 2013 : Column 1398 As has already been mentioned by others in this debate, in the field of asylum and immigration it seems that we are making the door narrower and narrower and the obstacle course more difficult. Instances of this include the UK citizenship test, which we mentioned here the other day, and the low, frozen asylum support rates. An asylum seeker who comes to the UK must wait 12 months before being allowed even to consider taking a job. He must exist on £35.63 a week. That is the income. It is not, as some suggest, that £1,000 cheques are waiting for asylum seekers as soon as they arrive in this country. That is not the truth. The truth is that we make it more and more difficult for people who come to this country. Now, of course, there are new restrictions which will divide families. That is totally opposed to our British tradition. I turn now to the “Life in the UK” citizenship test. I owe a lot to Dr Thom Brooks of Durham University for his investigation into these questions. This UK citizenship test is totally inappropriate. We are told: “If you spill a stranger’s drink by accident, it is good manners (and prudent) to offer to buy another”. People have to know that, and applicants are also expected to know 278 historical dates. Can any noble Lord tell me the height of the London Eye? You are expected to know it. There are 3,000 facts in this citizenship test. Even we could not answer all the questions. A little while ago in this Chamber I asked, “When did the Emperor Claudius invade Britain?”. The answer was “43AD”, but nobody raised a hand. The test makes it impossible for people who want to become part of a community here in the United Kingdom to have any confidence at all. Dr Brooks said that it is more like a bad pub quiz than anything meriting true consideration. The ladies here might like to know that in the test there are 29 historical figures who are men and only four who are ladies. The Government are erecting more barriers and making entry into Britain nearly impossible, especially for those with little funding. Not only should we welcome people, we should welcome people who have talent and potential. A little while ago I was with the Watoto children’s choir, who come from Uganda. I asked them what they would like to be when they grow up. They are orphans, whose parents died of AIDS. One little girl said she wanted to be a nurse and a little boy said he wanted to be an airline pilot. We came to the last child, who was 10 years old and a feisty little fellow. “What do you want to be?”. “I want to be President of Uganda”. I thought that was a wonderful answer. People have dreams and they have abilities. Our approach to those who want to come to these shores should not be to close the door and make it difficult. We should not only assess the money they have, but also the abilities and dreams that they can share with us. 4.38 pm The Earl of Listowel: My Lords, it is a privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Llandudno, and his tribute to the contribution that migrants have made to this country across time. We have discussed many of those in our debate today. I join those who thanked the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for calling 4 July 2013 : Column 1399 this important debate and for the work of her all-party group and join my noble friend, Lord Kilclooney, in emphasising the benefits that such groups can bring to the parliamentary process. Only last week, three new sets of consultations around children in care, covering children missing from children’s homes, out-of-authority placements and data sharing, were produced by the Minister for Children and Families. These were a direct result of the work of Ann Coffey MP, chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Runaway and Missing Children and Adults, and of that group’s report, produced jointly with the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Looked After Children and Care Leavers, on children who go missing from care. These can be very effective instruments. Although I have not looked in detail at immigration issues for some time, I have an inkling of the challenges that the Government face in immigration policy, as I served for five years on a sub-committee of your Lordships’ EU Select Committee tasked with looking at immigration policy. Indeed, I had the privilege of serving with the noble Lords, Lord Avebury and Lord Teverson. That experience made me particularly concerned that over-relaxed policies on migration allowed businesses to neglect some of the less work-ready youth of this country, because European Union labour could easily be found from abroad. We have all become more aware of the need for managed migration as we become aware of pressures on services, particularly school places, and especially of the housing shortage, and how these have contributed to social tensions. I pay tribute to the Government for their attention to the need to manage migration more carefully. However, I am very troubled by the rules that we are debating today. The new income requirement for sponsoring a non-European partner affects UK citizens. Most of them are hard-working taxpayers and many are making an important contribution to our health service and especially to the care of the elderly. These points have been made various noble Lords. The rules are pushing some women into dependency on the state, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, said. As lone parents, they can no longer afford to work. Most importantly, the rules are depriving children of their parents—their fathers in particular. They may have the effect of increasing pressures on housing and school places in London, as it is only here in London that mothers can hope to earn the income necessary to be reunited with their spouses, because of London weighting. The four UK Children’s Commissioners have issued a statement detailing their concern about the impact of the rules on the rights of children to a family life. In their briefing, they said that the Government’s impact assessment for the new rules, “barely makes any reference to a child’s best interests and fails to consider at all how these were considered in arriving at the proposals for change”. They also reported their concern that decision-makers may not be considering the best interests of children in individual assessments of applications, as guidance requires. 4 July 2013 : Column 1400 The emerging evidence, as shown in the report from the all-party parliamentary group on the impact of the rules, shows that they are having the surely unintended consequence of dividing children from their parents, in particular fathers, with the potential for long-term damage. We all know the poor outcomes for boys growing up without fathers and all lament the increasing number of boys growing up without a father involved in their life. Not so long ago, as I attended the juvenile court in west London, it was drawn to my attention that the young people attending that day would occasionally have a mother with them but that no fathers were present at the proceedings. Only this Tuesday, at Second Reading of the Children and Families Bill, as referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, we heard the Schools Minister defending a new legal presumption for the family court: that it is normally in the best interests of the child to have both parents involved in their upbringing. I hope that I have that correct. The noble Baroness, Lady Perry, whom I am pleased to see in her place, made a very passionate and eloquent speech in that debate. She said: “Denying a child adequate contact and time with both their parents is not in that child’s best interest. The sense of self-worth and confidence in any child comes primarily from one's parents, and continued contact with two parents can strengthen a child’s confidence, even after the trauma of divorce. I was interested to read in the Sunday Times … that even bad fathers should, with proper supervision and safeguards, be allowed time with their children”.—[Official Report, 2/7/13; col. 1119.] It is that important. I have several questions for the Minister. In formulating these regulations, was consideration given to the impact that they would have on children, particularly on those boys thus denied contact with their fathers? Can he say how many boys are unable to have regular contact with their fathers as a result of these rules? If not, can he say how many children are affected? Are the Government concerned at the impact on boys being denied access to their fathers as a result of the rules? Will the Minister tell us whether the Government intend to review these impacts and what steps they will take to ensure that any damage to children is minimised? That is rather a lot of questions and the Minister may prefer to write to me. In considering these regulations, I was reminded of the experience of setting up the Yarl’s Wood immigration removal centre about 10 or 12 years ago. Again, this was to address a thorny problem with immigration. When families had exhausted all the processes for asylum, the Government needed to remove these families and some of them were unwilling to go. Eventually it was determined that some of them would be locked up in Yarl’s Wood. Unfortunately, that was a category C prison and so we had children, babies, young children and their mothers entering the reception area of the prison, being taken through a prison gate and all the locked doors in that prison, and being cared for by prison officers. The Children’s Commissioner again played a very important role, visiting on many occasions and campaigning on the issue. I congratulate the coalition Government on deciding that this was not the right policy and reversing it. Visiting on one occasion, I remember meeting a 16 year-old girl who had been in 4 July 2013 : Column 1401 that setting for, I believe, nine months with her younger sister. She was so angry: how could she, as a child who had committed no crime, be denied her freedom for all that time during her childhood? I had no way to respond to her on that occasion. What really came across in the Yarl’s Wood experience was that there was no clear thought at the beginning of the policy about the impact on children and families. Over the 10 years, there was a great deal of change and consideration and, eventually, the policy was overturned. I hope that, in this case as well, we may see further thought from the Government and I look forward to the Minister’s response. 4.48 pm Lord Rosser: My Lords, in view of the difficulty that I created in the previous debate by sitting down sooner than the Minister expected, perhaps I should say to him that I am not sure that I will take up all my allocated time on this occasion either. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for giving us the opportunity to have this debate and to discuss the report of the inquiry launched by the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Migration. We have heard some powerful and passionate speeches, which I will not even attempt to emulate. As has already been said, immigrants have benefitted Britain over a great many years. They have come to our shores to help build and develop some of our major companies, as well as sustain our National Health Service and win us Nobel prizes. It is because immigration is important that it needs to be controlled, and its impact needs to be fair for all. We need to build common bonds, including more emphasis on speaking English. We also need to draw the distinction between immigration that works for Britain, and immigration that does not. That is why we support policies to bring down the pace of migration, particularly low-skilled migration, and why we support stronger controls on people coming to do low-skilled jobs. However, some changes that are made to immigration rules can have unfortunate consequences, and today we are discussing one such change—a significant one. In July last year, as we know, major changes to family-related immigration categories came into effect. With limited exemptions, British citizens or settled persons wishing to sponsor their non-EEA national spouse or partner to join them in the UK must now demonstrate a minimum gross annual income of £18,600, and more if they are also sponsoring dependent children. New foreign spouses or partners must also wait for five years rather than two, as previously, before they become eligible to apply for permanent settlement in the UK. More restrictive eligibility criteria have also been introduced for adult dependent relatives of British citizens who wish to settle in the UK. Last year the Government anticipated that the change would result in, I believe, up to 17,800 fewer family visas being granted every year, arguing that keeping the bar high for family migration could result in savings to the welfare bill. At the time, we expressed our support for strengthening the family migration 4 July 2013 : Column 1402 rules to protect UK taxpayers and said that if people want to make this country their home, they should contribute and not have a negative impact on public funds. However, we cast doubt on the Government’s approach that focused so much on the sponsor’s salary, and said that there needed to be a fair framework for those who fall in love and build family relationships across borders. The report from the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Migration on these new family migration rules, which has just been published, has already been referred to extensively. It highlights the impacts of recent rule changes on ordinary British citizens hoping to build a family in the UK with a non-EEA husband, wife or partner. Among the report’s key findings were that some British citizens and permanent residents in the UK, including people in full-time employment, have been separated from a non-EEA partner, and in some cases their children, as a result of the income requirement. In addition, some British citizens and permanent residents have been prevented from returning to the UK with their non-EEA partner and any children, again as a result of the income requirement. In some cases the non-EEA partner was the main earner with a medium or high salary, but that could not be counted towards the income requirement under the new rules. On top of all this, the report found that some children, including British children, have been indefinitely separated from a non-EEA parent, once again as a result of the income requirement. It looks as though the doubts raised about the Government’s approach, which was focused so heavily on the sponsor’s salary, have, unfortunately, been proved right. Among the recommendations made in the all-party group’s report was that the level of the income requirement should be reviewed with a view to minimising any particular impacts on UK sponsors as a result of their region, gender, age or ethnicity, and that family migration rules should ensure that children are supported to live with their parents in the UK where their best interests require this. We certainly see no difficulty in having a review without prejudging what its outcome might be. I want to raise a specific point about our Armed Forces. As I understand it, the Government have now decided that members of our Armed Forces posted or fighting for our country overseas should not be exempt from the new family migration rules. Perhaps the Minister could explain the thinking behind that decision, as it is in marked contrast to the Government’s decision, announced yesterday, of an exemption for members of our Reserve Armed Forces in respect of the employment tribunal qualifying employment period when pursuing claims for unfair dismissal on the grounds of reserve service. It remains to be seen what the Government’s response will be to the findings in the report and the recommendations of the inquiry launched by the all-party group. However, it does not look as though the new rules in their present form and the way in which they are being applied are, to put it mildly, doing a great deal to strengthen and enhance family life in what is hardly an insignificant number of instances. 4 July 2013 : Column 1403 4.55 pm The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach): I thank all noble Lords for contributing to a good debate and in particular my noble friend Lady Hamwee for tabling the Motion. It can but be a proper function of this House to scrutinise government and what it does. In this area, noble Lords have indicated in their speeches today sincere and genuine interest in the application of policy. As noble Lords know, the Government are determined to reform the immigration system and restore public confidence in it. In that context we implemented in July 2012 a major set of reforms of the requirements to be met by non-European Economic Area nationals seeking to enter or remain in the UK on the basis of family life. The Government welcome the report of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Migration on its inquiry into the impact of the new family migration rules. In monitoring this impact, we will consider carefully the findings of the report. Many noble Lords have spoken of their concerns about these new rules. The passion of the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and the challenges from my noble friends Lord Teverson, Lord Avebury and Lord Taylor of Warwick have provided us with a test. I enjoyed the speeches of the noble Lords, Lord Parekh and Lord Kilclooney. I am not entirely sure that I enjoy the testing standards of my noble friend Lord Roberts of Llandudno, but I am pleased that in his closing speech the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, demonstrated that we agree on many of the key issues and recognise the heart of them for government. I hope he does not believe that I presume too much. Perhaps I can start by setting out the background to the changes introduced last year. My noble friend Lord Teverson focused very strongly on his concerns about family life in this country. The Government welcome those who want to make a life in the UK with their families, to work hard and to make a contribution, but family life must not be established here at the taxpayer’s expense. That is fundamental for the income test and is the reasoning behind the income threshold. We expect the new income threshold to prevent burdens on the taxpayer and promote successful integration. Those wishing to establish their family life here must be able to stand on their own feet financially. That is not an unreasonable expectation as the basis of sustainable family migration and good integration outcomes, on which I am sure all noble Lords agree. The previous requirement for adequate maintenance was not, as it turned out, an adequate basis for sustainable family migration and good integration outcomes. It provided little assurance that UK-based sponsors and their migrant partner could support themselves financially over the long term. One of its considerable downsides was that it involved a complex assessment of the current and prospective employment income of the parties and their other financial means, including current or promised support from third parties. This was not conducive to clear, consistent decision-making. That is why the Government decided to establish a new financial requirement for sponsoring family migrants. The level of the threshold was based principally on expert advice from the independent Migration Advisory 4 July 2013 : Column 1404 Committee. The levels of income required are those at which a couple, once settled in the UK and taking into account any children, because children can be included in the threshold by an additional threshold sum, generally cannot access income-related benefits. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and my noble friend Lord Taylor of Warwick said that a family policy needs to be fair. The Government believe that this is a fair and appropriate basis for family migration. It is right for migrants, local communities and the UK as a whole. The Government agreed with the Migration Advisory Committee’s conclusion that there is no clear case for varying the income threshold across the UK. I hope the noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney, will understand that it would be impossible to set a threshold for migration to Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales. What would become of freedom of movement within the United Kingdom? It is unreal, and that is the principal reason why it has been ruled out. A requirement that varied by region could lead to sponsors moving to a lower threshold area in order to meet the requirement before returning once a visa was granted. It could also mean that a sponsor living in a wealthy part of a relatively poor region could be subject to a lower income threshold than a sponsor living in a deprived area of a relatively wealthy region. A single national threshold also provides clarity and simplicity for applicants and caseworkers. I think all noble Lords will agree that the Immigration Rules are complex enough. They have been complicated by politicians and lawyers, and we need to make the rules as simple as we can if we want an efficient and effective way of determining outcomes. We have built significant flexibility into the operation of the threshold allowing for different income sources to be used towards meeting the threshold as well as significant cash savings. Employment overseas is no guarantee of finding work in the UK, and the previous and prospective earnings of the migrant partner are not taken into account in determining whether the threshold is met. If the migrant partner has a suitable job offer in the UK, they can apply under tier 2 of the points-based system. We have also made significant changes to the adult and elderly dependent relative route, ending the routine expectation of settlement in the UK for parents and grandparents aged 65 or over. A number of noble Lords were concerned about this. The noble Lord, Lord Parekh, made an eloquent speech about it. Close family members are now able to settle in the UK only if they require a level of long-term personal care as a result of their age, illness or disability that can be provided only in the UK by their relative here. The route is now limited to those applying from outside the UK. These changes reflect the significant NHS and social care costs to which these cases can give rise. The report highlights some cases affected by the changes that we have introduced to this route. The new criteria for adult dependent relatives more clearly reflect the intended thrust of the requirement of the old rules that parents and grandparents aged under 65 and other adult dependent relatives of any age be in the most exceptional compassionate circumstances to settle in the UK. 4 July 2013 : Column 1405 There should be no expectation that elderly parents and grandparents who are self-sufficient or who can be cared for overseas should be able to join their children or grandchildren in the UK. That is the policy intention and the cases which have been highlighted are not unintended consequences. They demonstrate how the policy is intended to work. The new family rules are intended to bring a sense of fairness back to our immigration system. The public are rightly concerned that those accessing public services and welfare benefits have contributed to their cost. The changes we have made are having the right impact and they are helping, I hope, to restore public confidence in the immigration system. The number of partner and other family route entry clearance visas issued in the year ending March 2013 is 37,470. It has fallen by 16% compared with the year ending March 2012. I can assure all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate—the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, approached this with a great deal of understanding of the issues—that we will continue to monitor the impact of the rules. Since last July we have made some adjustments to the rules in response to feedback from customers and caseworkers. These include allowing those in receipt of research grants paid on a tax-free basis to count the amount on a gross basis and counting investments transferred into cash savings within the period of six months before the date of application. My honourable friend Mark Harper has also indicated, in a parallel debate in another place, that he would consider representations made on parts of detail about the operation of other aspects of the rules. I hope noble Lords feel that this debate has been worth while. Certainly the report of the APPG has been worth while. Lord Judd: The Minister, in his usual way, is replying with great courtesy and concern. We all appreciate that. He referred to the complexity in the regulations and the difficulties for caseworkers and, indeed, we might add, border officials and the rest in applying those regulations. Does he not agree that that is why it is so important that certain salient points of guidance should be expressed all the time by Ministers and others, such as the paramount importance of the child, the rights of the child and the situation of the child in the midst of this jungle of complexity? Lord Taylor of Holbeach: I would agree with the noble Lord that our policy here within the UK is a strong focus on family—and indeed on children. It 4 July 2013 : Column 1406 could be argued that there is a dichotomy here between an immigration policy that is designed to limit numbers and reduce net migration and the maintenance of family structures. I was going on to seek to answer the noble Lord’s points on a number of issues because he did ask about the impact on children. We recognise the importance of the duty under Section 55 of the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009 to safeguard and promote the welfare of children in the UK. The consideration of the welfare and best interests of children is taken into account in immigration policy. The noble Lord came in right on cue even if I have not been able to satisfy him totally. My noble friend Lord Avebury asked whether any adult dependent relative visas have been issued since October 2012. I can give him an answer to that. In the year ending March 2013, 5,066 visas were issued to other family members according to published Home Office statistics. These figures do not separately identify adult dependent relatives of British citizens and settled persons in the UK. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, asked what consideration of the impact of policies on boys denied contact with the fathers, and of the impact of policies on both boys and girls, was taken into account in the development and implementation of the new rules. We do not know how many children are affected by the rules. Where the effects of refusal under the rules would be unjustifiably harsh, there is a provision to grant leave outside the rules on a case-by-case basis if there are exceptional circumstances. I said before that this has been a good debate, not least because there have been three John D Taylors speaking in it. I am grateful to all noble Lords, however, for their contributions. I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Hamwee for bringing the report to the attention of the House and of the Government. We welcome all contributions to the debate on how best to ensure that family migration is done on a properly sustainable basis. I am grateful to have the chance to hear the views on these issues. I am conscious that I have not replied to every point that has been raised in this debate but, with the leave of noble Lords, I will write a commentary on the debate, covering all points made, addressed to my noble friend Lady Hamwee and copied to all participatory Peers, and place a copy in the Library. House adjourned at 5.11 pm. _______________________________________________________________ Back to Table of Contents Home Page Footer links * A-Z index * Glossary * Contact us * Freedom of Information * Jobs * Using this website * Copyright * Accessibility * Email alerts * RSS feeds * Contact us ____________________ Search * Home * Parliamentary business * MPs, Lords & offices * About Parliament * Get involved * Visiting * Education * House of Commons * House of Lords * What's on * Bills & legislation * Committees * Publications & records * Parliament TV * News * Topics You are here: Parliament home page > Parliamentary business > Publications and Records > Committee Publications > All Select Committee Publications > Lords Select Committees > European Union > European Union Select Committee on European Union Fourteenth Report __________________________________________________________________ CHAPTER 2: The wider context Economic effects of immigration FISCAL EFFECTS 7. Research on the fiscal effects of migration is limited. In 2002 the Home Office published a report entitled The Migrant Population in the UK: Fiscal Effects.[3] It estimated that in 1999/2000 immigrants to the United Kingdom contributed -L-31.2 billion in taxes and consumed -L-28.8 billion in benefits and state services, a net contribution of -L-2.5 billion. The study attracted some criticism for its methodology and also on the ground that it had failed to apportion the whole cost of the immigration system to migrants.[4] (The latter criticism seems misconceived: the costs of controlling immigration should not fall wholly on the immigrants.) More recently, the Institute for Public Policy Research published a paper entitled Paying their way: the fiscal contribution of immigrants in the UK,[5] which reviewed the evidence, taking into account the methodological criticisms of the previous report. The findings of the IPPR study confirmed those of the Home Office study, and indeed concluded that the relative net contribution of immigrants to public finances increased between 1999 and 2004. It estimated that total revenue from immigrants grew in real terms from -L-33.8 billion in 1999-2000 to -L-41.2 billion in 2003-2004, a 22 per cent increase (compared with a six per cent increase from people born in the United Kingdom). The study also found that immigrants make a relatively greater net fiscal contribution than people born in the United Kingdom and have become proportionately greater net contributors to the public finances than non-immigrants. 8. The economic consequences of migration, however, go beyond the fiscal effects. The debate here consists of four main elements: * the effect of migration on innovation and growth; * its effect on employment and welfare; * its implications in respect of the changing demographics of Europe; and * its consequences for countries of origin. In all these areas there was a strong measure of agreement among most of the witnesses, perhaps surprisingly given the controversial nature of the subject. We discuss the first three of these issues below, and the consequences for countries of origin in paragraphs 33-37. INNOVATION AND GROWTH 9. According to the Government's evidence, Treasury estimates suggest that migration accounts for ten per cent of trend growth forecasts.[6] This positive assessment of the effect of immigration on growth and innovation was strongly supported by the witnesses we heard in Brussels. The EU's Lisbon Strategy, launched in 2000 to improve the competitiveness of the EU economy, including through research and innovation, recognises the importance of immigration to the achievement of these objectives. Even MigrationWatch, an organisation that lobbies for a reduction in immigration to the United Kingdom, acknowledged the positive economic effect of immigration (while maintaining that it did not outweigh the arguments for greater restrictions on immigration).[7] Ministers told us that they regarded the United Kingdom's decision to permit (subject to a registration requirement) free movement of workers from all the 2004 Accession States as evidence of a successful policy.[8] We discuss the effects of enlargement and its implications in paragraphs 13-21. EMPLOYMENT AND WELFARE 10. As for the effects of migration on employment, the Government were firmly of the view that, rather than competing with the resident population for jobs, migrants expand sectors and create opportunities. Margaret Hodge MP, the Minister of State for Employment and Welfare Reform, told us that "migration has supported prosperity and growth and added value to the UK domestic product and to jobs".[9] 11. It is commonly asserted that immigrants are a drain on the benefit system. On the contrary, the studies referred to in paragraph 7 above show that overall immigrants contribute more in taxes than they receive in benefits. Moreover, the assertion about benefits is even less justified in the case of economic migrants than of immigrants generally since they are by definition admitted for employment or self-employment; and in the United Kingdom economic migrants from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) have no entitlement to welfare benefits. Under section 115 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999, a person subject to immigration control is precluded from claiming non-contributory benefits.[10] Those admitted for employment or self-employment become eligible for contributory benefits only when they have the necessary national insurance contribution record. THE "DEMOGRAPHIC DEFICIT" 12. The demographic challenges facing the EU are also often referred to in the debate on economic migration. Labour migrants tend to have younger age profiles than the average population. According to Eurostat, the Commission's statistical office, by 2010 deaths in the EU 25 will outnumber births. For a time immigration will compensate for this "demographic deficit", but by 2025 the beneficial demographic effects of inward migration (calculated on current rates) will no longer outweigh the natural decrease, and the total population of the EU—albeit with wide variations between Member States—will start to decline gradually.[11] A table showing the current population of each of the Member States and projections for 2025 and 2050 is at Appendix 4. It is estimated that, on current trends, by 2025 there will be a 20 million shortfall of workers across the EU. One of the challenges facing EU Member States is determining how to satisfy pension requirements among populations with increasing numbers of retired people and decreasing numbers of participants in the labour force as a result of these demographic changes. Free movement of persons within the EU 13. Free movement of persons for economic purposes is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, along with free movement of goods, services and capital. The EU has strongly embraced the principle that the movement of persons for economic purposes is a central part of the internal market. This position, first adopted in the Treaty of Rome, has been consistently strengthened with each revision of the treaties. Nor has this been exclusively limited to EC nationals (later EU citizens). Even in its original form the Treaty provided for the adoption of secondary legislation to bring third country national service providers based within the Community within the scope of this free movement right.[12] Encouraging free movement of persons has been and continues to be a high priority of the EU institutions, as Madame Quintin, the Director-General for Employment, confirmed to us in emphasising that the Commission's approach up to now had been primarily one of removing obstacles to mobility.[13] 14. The underlying premise is that movement of persons for economic activity is not only necessary in the interests of EU market integration but positively beneficial to growth and innovation in the EU. It is also considered an important contributor to achieving higher levels of labour market participation. However, as currently constructed, the right of free movement of persons has two important limitations: first, it is territorially limited to the Member States of the EU (though subject to continuing expansion as a result of successive enlargements); and secondly, it is subject to a limitation on the basis of nationality—only nationals of the Member States and their family members (of any nationality) are entitled to exercise these rights in their personal capacity (this class also increasing with each enlargement). 15. The EU's general approach to immigration policy is underpinned by a belief that globalisation in the sense of cross border movement of economic activities—goods, persons, services and capital—is prima facie economically beneficial. Consistently with this position the EU has taken a similar approach in international trade fora, notably the World Trade Organization (WTO). A notable example of this is the EU position in the Doha round of the re-negotiation of the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS), which is intended to promote market liberalisation in the provision of services. In June 2005 the EU made a revised offer which, among other things, would enable services companies in 21 sectors to transfer skilled employees to the EU, including the new Member States, for six months at a time (and management trainees for 12 months). 16. Within the EU's internal market, competition among the Member States for qualified workers and innovators depends on employers attracting the right staff to their enterprises; for workers and innovators from outside the EU the situation is different. Here national immigration policies are an important factor in facilitating or hindering the access of individuals to the territory and labour market. Some Member States are seen as competing with others for certain classes of workers from outside the EU by means of their immigration regulations. Variations between Member States 17. Among the factors to be taken into account in this regard are the differences in the economies of the Member States and in their labour needs. While the EU's internal market is, in law, a single market, this does not prevent substantial variations in economic performance between the Member States. For instance, in March 2005 the unemployment rate in the "old" Member States ranged from 10.0 per cent in Spain, 9.9 per cent in Greece, and 9.8 per cent in France and Germany to 5.0 per cent in Austria, 4.8 per cent in the Netherlands, 4.6 per cent in the United Kingdom and 4.3 per cent in Ireland. The table at Appendix 4 shows the unemployment rates and the GDP growth rates for all 25 Member States. 18. Further, as Mr Marco Formisano of the Centre for European Policy Studies (CEPS) pointed out, there is very substantial variation in the type of economic migration which EU Member States consider that they need, ranging from highly skilled to unskilled workers.[14] Most Member States appear to have schemes which are designed for different skill levels though greater emphasis appears to be placed on some categories than others. For example, in the United Kingdom the Government's five year strategy for immigration and asylum indicates a substantial preference for highly skilled migrants.[15] The needs of other Member States, such as Spain, which have large agricultural sectors, include substantial numbers of unskilled workers, though southern Europe is also subject to exceptional migration pressures from North Africa and elsewhere. 19. Among the biggest challenges to a common policy on EU economic migration are the large differences in growth and employment rates between Member States, and in the labour shortages or gaps at the national level. It is clear that any common EU policy on economic migration would have to build into its basic design sufficient flexibility to accommodate national and indeed regional variations. The ability of the EU to achieve a common position in the field of services suggests that a similar consensus on broad guidelines for economic migration might be attainable, but it is unlikely that the Member States would accept it. Enlargement TRANSITIONAL ARRANGEMENTS 20. On 1 May 2004 ten new Member States joined the European Union. The nationals of two of them, Cyprus and Malta, had full free movement rights throughout the EU from the date of accession. But it was open to each of the existing Member States to decide, in relation to nationals of the other eight new Member States (often referred to as the "A8" (accession eight)), whether to accord them full free movement rights from the outset or withhold them for a series of transitional periods totalling seven years.[16] In the event all the "old" Member States, except for the United Kingdom, Ireland and Sweden, decided not to give nationals of the A8 countries the right to work immediately, in order to protect their domestic labour markets. The United Kingdom gave them the right to work from the outset, but in the face of public concern about the effects of doing so, instituted shortly before 1 May measures requiring them to register under the Worker Registration Scheme and restricting access to benefits. 21. The new Member States themselves naturally pressed for their nationals to have the full benefits of EU membership from the outset and have continued to urge that the transitional periods be kept as short as possible. They understandably resent discussion of freer entry for third country nationals when their own nationals are still subject to restrictions. As Professor Groenendijk[17] put it, "the eight new Member States will not agree to any rules on the admission of third country nationals so long as their own nationals are still experiencing all kinds of barriers in most of the old Member States".[18] UNITED KINGDOM EXPERIENCE 22. The Worker Registration Scheme has provided detailed information about the effects of enlargement on economic migration from the A8 countries to the United Kingdom, and the Government have issued regular accession monitoring reports based on it. The most recent report records that in the 14 months from 1 May 2004 to 30 June 2005 there were 232,000 applicants to the scheme, many of whom—up to 30 per cent—were already in the United Kingdom before 1 May 2004.[19] Ninety-seven per cent of workers were working full time, the great majority of them young and single. Eighty-two per cent were aged between 18 and 34 and only two per cent had dependants under the age of 17 with them. The majority of workers were in unskilled occupations, but there were also significant numbers in professional occupations and in public services, notably as care workers (5,500). More than half of the applicants were Polish, with Lithuanians the second largest national group (15 per cent). The applicants were spread throughout the country with the largest number (19 per cent) in London, but the proportion applying to London fell from 26 per cent in the second quarter of 2004 to 13 per cent in the second quarter of 2005. There were very few applications for benefits: of 1700 applications for income support and job seeker's allowance only 50 were allowed to proceed to further consideration. 23. The number of A8 nationals seeking employment in the United Kingdom following accession has greatly exceeded official estimates made beforehand.[20] This may have been due partly to the fact that, apart from Ireland and Sweden, other existing Member States have not yet opened their doors to nationals of the A8 countries. Nevertheless the evidence from the accession monitoring reports is that these workers have filled vacancies, without any significant effect on wage levels or the overall unemployment rate. According to Mrs Hodge, accession of the A8 countries and their nationals' free access to the United Kingdom labour market "has been of benefit to the British economy in terms of our competitiveness, productivity and growth, with no impact, as far as we can tell so far, on either wage rates or employment rates".[21] To that extent the United Kingdom has benefited economically from the fact that these workers were unable to secure employment so readily in other Member States. Nor has the influx of mainly young, single Eastern European workers had any significant disadvantages that were brought to our attention. IMPLICATIONS FOR THE EU 24. As explained above, the numbers of A8 workers coming to the United Kingdom following accession are likely to have been inflated by the fact that only three of the "old" Member States accorded them free movement rights from the date of their accession. They would no doubt have sought employment opportunities more evenly across the EU if they had had equal access across all the Member States. Nevertheless the lesson for the EU as a whole seems clear. There is little to fearand much to gainfrom the extension of freedom of movement rights to the new Member States. Movement within the EU is driven primarily by economic considerations: it is no coincidence that the A8 countries from which most workers have come to the United Kingdom are those with two of the highest unemployment ratesPoland and Lithuania. 25. All those we spoke to in Brussels on the subject were strongly of the opinion that the transitional restrictions on the A8 Members States should be lifted as soon as possible. Dr Apap, an adviser to the European Parliament's Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs (the LIBE Committee) told us that that was the view of the European Parliament;[22] the European Trades Union Confederation (ETUC) agreed.[23] Mr Formisano of CEPS described the transitional measures as "useless"[24], as in his view they had been in the previous enlargement of Spain and Portugal: most Member States had applied transitional measures to the A8 countries despite studies by the Commission showing that they were unnecessary. Commissioner Špidla, the Employment Commissioner, told us that he was convinced that it would be in line with the Lisbon Strategy to waive the remaining transitional periods.[25] He explained that there would be an initial evaluation of them by the Commission in 2006.[26] In the light of that evaluation the Member States will decide whether to lift the restrictions or retain them for a further three years. At the end of that period a Member State still applying restrictions may ask the Commission to extend them for a further two years if it can show serious disturbances in its labour market or the threat of them. The transitional measures could therefore last for a total of seven years. 26. We believe that it would be in the EU's interest to extend full free movement rights to the A8 countries as soon as possible. Until that happens, it would be inappropriate—and inconsistent with the need for solidarity with the new Member States—to relax controls on the admission of third country national workers. The new Member States themselves would, reasonably enough, be likely to be reluctant to consider such relaxation. FUTURE ACCESSION 27. Similar questions about the free movement of workers arise in relation to the next accession—of Bulgaria and Romania—currently set for 1 January 2007. The accession agreements with these countries contain the same transitional provisions as for the A8, which means that it could be 2014 before their nationals have full freedom of movement rights throughout the EU—one of the fundamental freedoms of the EU. We believe that, on the evidence of the last enlargement, there is a strong case on economic grounds for according nationals of new Member States free movement rights as early as possible following accession, and for there to be a concerted position across the existing Member States with limited opportunity for them to operate different transitional periods. 28. The opening of accession negotiations with Croatia and Turkey has recently been approved. The application of free movement rights to the citizens of those countries will be an important and sensitive issue in the negotiations with them, particularly with Turkey given the size of its population. Negotiations with Croatia are likely to be shorter, perhaps in the region of four years. However, the EEC Turkey Association Agreement[27] already provides, through its subsidiary legislation, rights of continued residence and employment for Turkish workers lawfully within the EU. The gradual extension of these provisions to encompass more extensive free movement rights over what is likely to be a lengthy period of negotiations and transition will need careful handling. Managing the migration aspirations of nationals of candidate countries, coupled with investment in infrastructure and jobs in the candidate country, is the best way to avoid fears of disruption to the labour market in the period following accession. IMPLICATIONS FOR IMMIGRATION FROM OUTSIDE THE EU 29. It is sometimes assumed that enlargement, creating an economic area with a total population of some 460 million, reduces—or even removes—the need for immigration from outside the EU, apart from those with certain specialised skills. Sir Andrew Green, the Chairman of MigrationWatch, argued that enlargement was a good reason for reducing the inflow of migrants from the rest of the world.[28] At first sight the movement of A8 workers to the United Kingdom following enlargement may appear to support that view. But that is unlikely to be the case. That movement seems to have been stimulated largely by high rates of unemployment and lower levels of economic opportunity in the sending countries, which may not continue as membership of the EU brings a greater measure of economic convergence. Moreover, the populations of the new Member States are ageing as quickly as the pre-accession 15, more so in some cases. So there is unlikely to be a continuing pool of young workers from the new Member States to fill vacancies in the EU as a whole. The accession of Turkey may change the situation, but in the meantime economic migration from outside the present EU will in our view continue to be needed. The international dimension GLOBALISATION AND THE IMPLICATIONS FOR THE PROVISION OF SERVICES 30. As we have already noted, the effects of globalisation on EU economies is not uniform. As Appendix 4 shows, growth and unemployment rates vary substantially across the Member States. The increasing importance of services as a major contributor to GDP, however, holds true across the EU. Studies by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) show that most of the variation in employment rates across OECD countries is accounted for by the services sector. The OECD considers that services, which account for an even higher share of employment in the United Kingdom than in the Eurozone, offer considerable job creation potential.[29] It has also pointed out that by and large services markets have remained segmented: the integration of services markets lags far behind that of goods. 31. Moves to liberalise controls on service providers (i.e. companies providing services) place some constraints on Member States' freedom to regulate admission for employment. The broad aim of these initiatives is to create a level playing field for service providers—in terms of their ability to transfer employees freely from undertakings in one country to another. These moves derive from two separate sources: the WTO's General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS), to which we have already referred,[30] which applies worldwide; and the draft Services Directive currently under discussion within the EU, which is intended to ensure equal treatment for service providers across the EU. We published a report on the draft Directive in July 2005.[31] 32. The GATS, currently under renegotiation in the Doha Round with a view to further liberalisation of the services market internationally, indicates a widely held view that services are a priority sector. Some see the movement of service providers and their personnel to carry out economic activities across borders not only as an opportunity for job creation but also as a risk to national labour markets. Ms Catelene Passchier of the ETUC referred to increasing concern in some countries about cross-border movement.[32] However, the more prevalent view of our government and Commission witnesses, also shared by UNICE,[33] was that liberalisation in this area would not undermine Member States' policies. Tony McNulty, the Immigration Minister, said that GATS was essentially a trade agreement, which "does not override our ability to control things within the context of the national immigration rules".[34] The Commission's Directorate-General for Justice, Freedom and Security thought that GATS would not affect policies on economic migration for the rather different reason that service providers and their personnel do not enter the labour market of the host Member State.[35] Madame Quintin, the Employment Director-General, also took the view that GATS had nothing to do with immigration or access to the employment market because it was concerned only with the temporary provision of services by workers who were returning to their country of origin.[36] It seems likely that over time the movement of workers resulting from the liberalisation of services will become a more significant element of transnational migration. But the broad consensus of our witnesses was that it was unlikely in the foreseeable future to impinge very directly on Member States' economic migration policies or to affect the arguments for and against the case for an EU policy in this area. IMPLICATIONS FOR COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN 33. Discussion of economic migration tends to focus on the benefits and costs to the receiving countries. There is, however, an alternative perspective on the movement of persons for economic activity, and this is the consequence for countries of origin, particularly those in the developing world, of the emigration of their people. The export of surplus unskilled or low skilled labour is likely to be in the interests of the sending country as well as the receiving country, but the developed world is equally if not more interested in recruiting skilled workers, who may also be in short supply in the sending country, which will not recoup the training costs involved. This problem is particularly acute in the health sector. A particularly striking example was given to us by Patrick Taran of the International Labour Organization (ILO), who had been told when in southern Africa recently that half the wards in the national public health hospital in the capital of Botswana had been closed down because of shortages of nursing staff, who had been recruited to work in the United Kingdom and other western countries.[37] A similar situation can arise in Europe. Madame Quintin noted that Romania was losing many doctors, who were well trained but badly paid, to the old Member States.[38] 34. While there was substantial concern among our witnesses about the effects of highly skilled workers leaving developing countries, there was no unanimity on what should be done. The phenomenon of "brain drain" was invoked mainly as an argument for inhibiting economic migration from the developing world. In no case was it presented as a reason for preventing emigration from the developed world. A recent report by the World Bank estimated that nearly one sixth of working age, British born graduates (1.44 million) live and work overseas, proportionately more than any other country.[39] It was also interesting to note that those who expressed concern about brain drain vis `a vis developing countries were reticent as regards economic migration from those same countries but limited to the unskilled. It was argued that economic migration from the developing world, whether skilled or unskilled, had a number of virtuous consequences, not least the opportunity of gainful employment for the unemployed, utilisation of expensively acquired but underutilised skills for the underemployed, and the development of new skills for all economic migrants. 35. Of particular importance are the sums remitted to migrants' home countries, which Don Flynn of JCWI saw as a key way to permit economic migrants to make choices about how to invest in their countries of origin. The World Bank estimated that in 2004 $120 billion—a sum far exceeding levels of development aid—was sent home by migrant workers to their families in developing countries.[40] The level of outward remittances from the United Kingdom is estimated as between three and four billion pounds a year.^ [41] As Sir Andrew Green of MigrationWatch pointed out, this amounts to some -L-10 million pounds a day but does not compensate developing countries for the loss of key people.[42] 36. Both Mr Flynn and Sir Andrew Green suggested that there might be scope for some form of compensation for countries losing expensively trained workers in, for example the health sector. Mr Flynn referred to a scheme operated by the Department for International Development, which assists Malawi directly to keep nurses working there. In general, however, few of our witnesses favoured the option of tying economic migration to aid as a way of compensating the loss of skilled workers in developing countries. Commissioner Špidla said that he could not "conceive" of compensation for third countries. The Commission has recently published a communication on migration and development, which identifies a number of practical ways of improving the impact of migration on development.[43] These include facilitating the transmission of remittances, encouraging "circular migration", and mitigating the adverse effect of brain drain. 37. This is a large and complex issue to which there are no easy solutions. A combination of approaches is required. First, given the importance of remittances, it is crucial that ways of facilitating their transmission are developed, as the Green Paper proposes; and we welcome the proposals on this in the Commission's recent Communication. Secondly, as the Sussex Centre for Migration Research proposed, there is a need to make international codes of conduct in international recruitment more effective.[44] Thirdly, we would not rule out as readily as Commissioner Špidla did the idea of some form of compensation in strictly defined circumstances, such as apply in the Malawian example. But the main instrument to assist developing countries is in the context of negotiating association and co-operation agreements where, as Mr Flynn of JCWI argued, the migration dimension should always be an element[45]. It is essential however that in this process the needs of the sending countries are fully recognised, and that the focus is not simply on ensuring that they co-operate in, for example, taking back illegal immigrants. The United Kingdom situation 38. There has long been a regular flow of economic migrants to the United Kingdom. The flow accelerated in the second half of the 20th century, initially mainly from Commonwealth countries. But until recently there have been few "positive" immigration programmes designed to encourage people with particular skills to come to the United Kingdom for settlement—in contrast with countries such as Australia, Canada and the United States. The work permit scheme has been the main instrument used to fill specific vacancies which could not be filled by indigenous—or EU—workers. And inward migration was often balanced or exceeded by outward migration. However, since 1993, when there was a small net outflow of migrants, inward migration has consistently exceeded outward migration by varying amounts. The differences were relatively small up to 1997, but have increased since then. In 2004 an estimated 223,000 more people migrated to the United Kingdom than migrated abroad, compared with 152,000 in 2003.[46] 39. Forecasts in this area are notoriously unreliable, but, taking account of these trends and of current policies, the Government Actuary's Department has assumed an annual level of net inward migration of 130,000 a year in its central projection of future population growth. It has also published variant projections on the basis of high and low levels of net migration of 190,000 and 70,000 a year respectively.[47] On the central projection, the population of the United Kingdom would increase by 6.1 million in the period from 2003 to 2031, some five sixths of this increase being attributable to either the migrants themselves (3.6 million of the increase) or their effect on births and deaths (1.5 million). MigrationWatch argued on the basis of these figures that additional restrictions on immigration were required, simply to prevent overcrowding of an already crowded island, with the accompanying pressures on services, particularly in south-east England.[48] 40. Immigration is a complex phenomenon and it is not possible to produce a comprehensive assessment of its economic and social costs and benefits. We discussed the economic aspect earlier in this chapter and concluded that there is a broad consensus that the immigration of low-skilled and unskilled workers does not generally depress wages or take away jobs that would otherwise be done by indigenous workers. On the contrary, economic migration tends to stimulate further economic activity and create additional jobs. The social consequences are more difficult to quantify. On the one hand, unplanned immigration, as experienced with the peak arrivals of asylum seekers in the United Kingdom between 2001 and 2003, can add to problems in local communities and impose additional pressures on services; and large scale immigration, if concentrated on particular areas of the country, such as south-east England, can add to the strains on the local infrastructure. The TUC witnesses drew attention to the effect on housing, schools and health services in some rural areas where industrialised farming had developed with a need for unskilled labour without adequate planning.[49] On the other hand, immigration brings social benefits too, providing skills that are in short supply and filling gaps in essential services like the NHS and in other sectors, such as the construction and hospitality sectors.[50] 41. We were concerned that immigration of low-skilled workers could be used by employers as a cheap substitute for training the indigenous work force and could adversely affect schemes designed to improve the skills of disadvantaged young people. On the training side we were reassured by the figures that the CBI gave us of the amount invested in training and development by British industry;[51] and on youth unemployment by the information that Mrs Hodge gave us on the effects of the Welfare to Work Programme.[52] But it is important to remain alert to these dangers, particularly in the event of a less favourable economic climate. Conclusion 42. At the risk of stating the obvious, economic migration is largely driven by economic considerations. Many migrants will return home after a period of economic activity in the host country, either because of a down turn in the economy or because they have saved enough money to meet their needs at home, at least for a period of time. Mr Don Flynn of the JCWI gave a striking example of this phenomenon. He told us that of the 27 million Turks who migrated to Germany in the 1960s some 25 million returned to Turkey.[53] 43. We do not believe that it is possible to set an overall limit for net immigration, as MigrationWatch has argued, based on some arbitrary assessment of the optimum population of the United Kingdom. There are too many imponderables, not least, as the Government Actuary has pointed out,[54] in relation to future projections of net immigration, which are notoriously uncertain. While immigration controls allow at least a degree of control of inward migration, there is, rightly, no parallel control of people leaving the country. Levels of net immigration have fluctuated widely in the past and, as mentioned above, have often been negative. The current relatively high levels are associated with a long period of uninterrupted growth and prosperity, which is unlikely to be a coincidence. Overall we endorse the Government's view that national economic considerations should remain the primary determinant of the level of economic immigration, provided that this is not at the expense of the interests of the other parties involved, notably the sending countries and, most importantly, the migrant workers themselves, whose rights must not be infringed. __________________________________________________________________ 3 Gott and Johnston, Home Office Research, Development and Statistics Directorate, Occasional Paper No 77. Back 4 Rowthorn, R, The Economic Impact of Immigration Civitas online Report, 2004 www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/Rowthorm_Immigration.pdf; Lilley, P Too Much of a Good Thing? Towards a Balanced Approach to Immigration, Centre for Policy Studies www.cps.org.uk/pdf/pub/409.pdf . Back 5 Sriskandarajah, Cooley and Reed, IPPR, April 2005. Back 6 p 53. Back 7 Q 48. Back 8 Q 139. Back 9 Q 144. Back 10 The benefits excluded in this way are: Attendance Allowance, Child Benefit, Council Tax Benefit, Disability Living Allowance, Disabled Person's Tax Credit, Working Families Tax Credit, Housing Benefit, Income Support, Job Seeker's Allowance, Invalid Care Allowance, Severe Disablement Allowance, and housing provided by local authorities. Emergency NHS treatment is free of charge for anyone who needs it, regardless of how long they have been, or intend to stay, in the United Kingdom. Those who come to the United Kingdom to work, either as an employee or self-employed person, are entitled to free NHS hospital treatment. Back 11 Population Projects 2004/2050: EU25 Population rises until 2025 then falls (Eurostat, 48/2005, 8 April 2005). Back 12 Article 59 of the EEC Treaty, now Article 49 TEC. Back 13 Q 355. Back 14 Q 396. Back 15 Controlling our borders: Making migration work for Britain, Home Office, 7 February 2005. Back 16 See paragraph 25. Back 17 Chairman of the Centre for Migration Law, Radboud University, Nijmegen. Back 18 Q 111. Back 19 Accession Monitoring Report May 2004-June 2005, a joint online Report by the Home Office and the Department for Work and Pensions, HM Revenue and Customs and the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, 23 August 2005. According to the first monitoring report (for the period from May to December 2004) some 40 per cent of the initial 133,000 applicants were already in the United Kingdom before 1 May 2004. Back 20 A report commissioned by the Home Office before enlargement estimated that for the period up to 2010 net migration as a result of Eastern enlargement might range between 5,000 and 13,000 a year: The impact of EU enlargement on migration flows, Home Office Online Report 25/03. Back 21 Q 139. Back 22 Q 202. Back 23 Q 272. Back 24 Q 395. Back 25 Q 297. Back 26 Q 299. Back 27 64/732/EEC. Back 28 Q 49. Back 29 OECD Economic Survey of the Euro Area 2005, 12 July 2005. Back 30 Paragraph 15. Back 31 Draft Services Directive-Completing the Internal Market in Services, 6th Report, 2005-06, HL Paper 23. Back 32 Q 287. Back 33 Q 247. Back 34 Q 153. Back 35 Q 325. Back 36 Q 367. Back 37 Q 512. Back 38 Q 373. Back 39 International Migration, Remittances and the Brain Drain, World Bank, October 2005. Back 40 Q 504. Back 41 House of Commons Official Report, 10 November 2004, Col 827. See also United Kingdom Balance of Payments Pink Book 2005, where "Other payments by households", which consists largely of workers' remittances, totalled -L-4.082 billion in 2004 (Table 5.1); the equivalent figure for "other receipts of households" was -L-2.667 billion (ibid). Back 42 Q 74A. Back 43 Migration and development: Some concrete orientations: COM(2005) final, 1.9.05. Back 44 p 197. Back 45 Q 105. Back 46 International Migration 2004, National Statistics, October 2004. Back 47 p 29. Back 48 pp 25-27, QQ 48-49. Back 49 QQ 478-479 Back 50 Construction Skills estimates that one in ten building workers is a migrant (p 190); and according to the British Hospitality Association there was a shortage of 100,000 workers in the hospitality industry in 2004-05. Back 51 p 140. Back 52 Q 144. Back 53 Q 88. Back 54 pp 28-29. Back previous page contents next page House of Lords home page Parliament home page House of Commons home page search page enquiries index __________________________________________________________________ (c) Parliamentary copyright 2005 * A-Z index * Glossary * Contact us * Freedom of Information * Jobs * Using this website * Copyright Parliament UK * Accessibility * Cookies * Email alerts * RSS feeds * Contact us Site search Site search 1. Search ____________________ Search Primary navigation * Home * Parliamentary business * MPs, Lords & offices * About Parliament * Get involved * Visiting * Education * House of Commons * House of Lords * What's on * Bills & legislation * Committees * Publications & records * Parliament TV * News * Topics You are here: Parliament home page > Parliamentary business > Publications and Records > Committee Publications > All Select Committee Publications > Commons Select Committees > Public Administration > Public Administration Session 2012-13 Migration statistics Written evidence submitted by Royal Statistical Society and Statistics User Forum (5STATS 09) Summary This response is jointly submitted by the Royal Statistical Society and its Statistics User Forum (SUF). The Royal Statistical Society (RSS) is the UK's only professional and learned society devoted to the interests of statistics and statisticians. Founded in 1834, it is one of the world’s most influential and prestigious statistical societies. It aims to promote public understanding of statistics and provide professional support to users of statistics and to statisticians. The Statistics User Forum (SUF) was established by the Royal Statistical Society in 2004 as an umbrella organisation for groups and networks of users of official statistics to represent the shared views of this very diverse community. The Forum is the successor to long-established Statistics User Council. The RSS and SUF recognise the importance of Migration Statistics to inform the policy issues surrounding migration, understand the complexity of trying to measure migration into and within the United Kingdom, and appreciate the efforts made in recent years to improve such statistics. In the context of this, we suggest the following: · There is a good story to tell in the development of migration statistics - enormous improvements have been made in the quality and quantity of the statistics over recent years. We are also pleased with the degree of user engagement, and many of the recent improvements have been implemented in response to user demand. · Despite these recent improvements migration statistics are still not fully adequate for the task of producing robust population estimates or understanding patterns of migration. · We are concerned about the capacity to improve migration statistics in an environment where government funding of statistics is being reduced. The potential for further improvements is also limited whilst we rely upon a relatively small sample of migrants from the International Passenger Survey. · There is an issue with the quality and quantity of migration data at a local level, which has a significant impact upon population estimates in areas with high population turnover. It also inhibits the public understanding of migration. · We still rely upon the Census for detailed statistics about migration and migrant characteristics, and to evaluate other estimates of migration. During a period of large migration, such as between the last two Censuses (2001 and 2011), waiting ten years for reliable estimates is not sufficient. · The level of uncertainty in migration estimates is not fully appreciated or reported, and more needs to be done in this regard. · Estimates of emigration from the UK are known to be hardest to produce. The potential for use of other countries’ immigration data should be considered to validate the UK estimates. Furthermore, the Office for National Statistics could proactively encourage cooperation between member states of international organisations such as the European Union, OECD and UN to work together on this issue. · Data from e-Borders should be used to supplement the International Passenger Survey, but will not be able to provide the same level of detail. A step change in migration statistics would require the development of a population register. This should be considered seriously, particularly if alternatives to a Census are being considered for the future. Responses to specific questions 1. Do the published migration statistics – at the national, regional and local levels – meet the full range of their users’ needs, namely: a. Are they easily discoverable and accessible to all users? 1.1 There have been improvements in making migration data more accessible, including the cross-department Migration Statistics Quarterly Report and the Local Area Migration Statistics report, a compendium of migration indicators at local authority level. 1.2 Whilst regular users of migration statistics generally know where to find them, there is concern that occasional or new users of the statistics may have more difficulty in finding and using them. In particular we are concerned about the poor quality of the Office for National Statistics (ONS) website – see our comments in submission to the Committee’s inquiry into the communication and publication of statistics. Browsing to the page for international migration presents users with a list of myriad publications – bewildering to the non-expert. A user-friendly site would present the reader with the key facts on the topic and guide them on to the most appropriate detailed sources. b. Are they easy to use and understand? 1.3 The total long-term international migration estimates produced by the ONS are easily understood headline statistics, particularly when the net migration estimate is presented alongside the immigration and emigration components (see the migration timeline product referenced in 1.6). 1.4 Broadly speaking however migration statistics are inherently difficult to use and understand; the sheer complexity of migration does not lend itself to easy capture in a simple set of statistics. This is exacerbated by the fact that we have to rely upon multiple sources to infer the whole picture, and these sources sometimes tell apparently contradictory stories. This is particularly the case when understanding the impact of migration at a local level. 1.5 In order to use migration statistics effectively, users need to understand the concepts behind migration and the limitations of the data we are required to use. This is part of the rationale for bringing together all the migration statistics available as cross-government publications, which we welcome. The ONS have produced a brief guide, ‘Interpreting Labour Market Statistics’, which introduces new users to the statistical issues in that area – we would welcome a migration statistics version. 1.6 More efforts have been made to make the statistics easier to understand – an excellent example is the ONS interactive migration timeline, which presents migration statistics alongside an appreciation of the political, societal and international causes for the changing patterns. However the timeline is difficult to find unless you know to look for it – this is the sort of headline story which first-time users of migration statistics should be presented with on an international migration web page. c. Do they provide an appropriate level of detail? 1.7 Over the last five years there has been an enormous improvement in the quantity and quality of international migration statistics available. The Migration Statistics Improvement Programme has brought access to immigration control data, refinements to the International Passenger Survey (IPS), use of HMRC and higher education data to understand the within-UK destination of immigrants and more timely publication dates. 1.8 However there are still gaps in the available data. This has been put into relief by the recent release of 2011 Census results which have given us the most definitive picture of the effect of a decade of high international migration. The Census has provided details on total migrant stock, country of birth and date of arrival, and future releases will tell us more about economic activity, household formation and more. Many of these statistics are unavailable from other sources. It is of concern that the Census – which provides us with the best quality statistics with which to evaluate previous estimates – has an uncertain future. 1.9 Flow statistics continue to be based on the IPS. The sample of migrants is small (around 5,000 per annum), and is based on intentions, and although the methodology has been improved over recent years we are about at the limits of what it can produce by way of detail. 1.10 The coverage of emigration is still poor, and furthermore there are no administrative statistics to supplement the IPS. A step forward has been made by matching the reason for leaving with the reason for entering. However, not enough use is made of data collected by other countries – this could be used to improve our understanding of the flow of emigrants from the UK. 1.11 There is anecdotal evidence of a large number of undocumented migrants in the UK. Whilst difficult to estimate, the existence of an uncounted population is a significant challenge to the credibility of migration estimates – a problem also encountered by the 2011 Census. 1.12 Changing patterns of international migration over recent years – and probably into the future – means that there is an increasingly wide matrix of countries of interest, for example the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China). Yet the ONS continues with the same breakdown as in recent decades (Old and New Commonwealth, Other Foreign, EU etc.). New groupings need to be made available. 1.13 The lack of data on migration by ethnic group makes it difficult to estimate the impact of international migration on the ethnic composition of the population, needed for planning of various services such as education and health. 1.14 There is a continued problem with the quality and quantity of migration data available at a local level. Improvements have been made through the Migration Statistics Improvement Programme by allocating international migrants to local authority areas using administrative data, but the local-level estimates of migration are not robust, particularly for areas with high population turnover. For some local authority areas the Census has shown that the ONS population estimates have misrepresented the level of population growth, a problem caused by inaccurate internal and international migration estimates. Whilst the method of distributing international immigrants to local authorities has been improved, the method of distributing emigrants has not – and this may be a source of the problem. This issue should be examined further by the ONS and results published, if possible with some sensitivity analysis based on different assumptions. 1.15 The range of data available at local level is also an issue, though recent improvements, such as the provision of National Insurance number data, have been helpful. More information is required on age of migrants, reason for migration, short-term migrants and country of origin. At a sub-local authority level (e.g. wards) the only available migration data is from the Census every ten years, which means that the impact of high rates of international migration in particular neighbourhoods has been poorly understood. Until the Census results are published we have largely had to rely on anecdote. d. Are they effectively summarised? 1.16 One of the ways in which migration statistics are summarised is through the Migration Statistics Quarterly Report. Whilst this is an extremely useful report for accessing the data, the report leaves much for the reader to infer about the overall story. We feel that communication of migration statistics would be better served by the authors going the extra mile in describing the story which is being told by the statistics. See also our comments in 1.2 about guiding the non-expert user to the most appropriate source. 2. How well have producers of migration statistics engaged with users? How responsive have they been to feedback from users of statistics? 2.1 We find the ONS extremely open to user engagement – they engage with users through reference panels, workshops, consultations, RSS events, conferences and CLIP (Central Local Information Partnership) groups. They have also been proactive in approaching local authorities where migration patterns are more difficult to estimate. The Home Office also engages through some of these events and has hosted user group meetings to discuss migration statistics. 2.2 The above methods of engagement tend to attract regular, expert users of migration statistics. There is some concern that less frequent users who need an understanding of data quality – such as managers and policy makers – are not engaged so well. 2.3 Response to the feedback provided by users is more difficult to assess. Many of the improvements noted in our submission have been implemented in response to user demand, but many issues remain outstanding (see above). We understand that there are significant technical and financial barriers to meeting all of these demands. In addition, the demands of some users sometimes compete with the demands of others, leaving some unsatisfied. 3. Do the migration statistics which are published enable members of the public to gain a better understanding of the issues? Are the right migration statistics being collected? 3.1 The UK total long-term international migration figures, such as those presented in the ONS migration timeline, are excellent contributions to the understanding of migration. Many users see these statistics through the press, broadcasters, social media, and other secondary sources. The ONS could do more to help these mediators to disseminate statistics, through presenting them in simple formats with informative explanations to which links can be made. This would both widen the use of migration statistics and improve the accuracy with which they are reported. 3.2 Public understanding of the issues is undermined by the paucity of local level migration data. Whilst media comment – driven by the available statistics – tends to concentrate on the national picture, many members of the public also want to know about the impact of migration in their local area – how many people are arriving in the area, where they have come from, how long they will stay and what they are doing whilst they are living locally. This kind of detail is really only available from the Census, so in a decade where international immigration has been high the local level statistics have been found wanting. However, we do recognise the practical difficulties of producing robust statistics at the local level. 4. Is the degree of uncertainty surrounding estimates of migration properly reported and widely understood? Is the degree of uncertainty surrounding estimates of migration acceptable or should it be reduced? If so, how could it be reduced? 4.1 We believe that the understanding of uncertainty is not properly reported nor widely understood. Debate using migration statistics rarely takes place with an appreciation that migration is difficult to measure and that there is uncertainty around any given figure. This is an issue across the full range of official statistics. 4.2 In the latest (November 2012) Migration Statistics Quarterly Report, the existence of uncertainty and confidence intervals is acknowledged on the second page. However in the headline statistics no indication is given of the relative size of the confidence intervals compared to the estimates – it is left to the user to find the confidence intervals in the relevant table and make their own judgements. It would be helpful if confidence intervals were reported alongside the headline statistic; this would help to educate non-expert users about the existence of uncertainty. 4.3 Confidence intervals are relatively easy to convey because they are easily quantified, but non-sampling errors such as non-response bias in the IPS also need to be fully appreciated and communicated. 4.4 As already noted, the international migration estimates are based upon a small sample from the IPS, so levels of uncertainty are quite high. When these estimates are disaggregated to local level within the UK the uncertainty rises considerably, particularly around emigration. We address some ideas for reducing uncertainty in the response to question six. 4.5 The considerable uncertainty around migration estimates at a local level has previously gone undocumented and unrecognised. The ONS have done a significant amount of work to address this, and have recently published indicators and statistical measures of uncertainty at a local level – very welcome developments. 5. Are the migration statistics adequate for measuring the Government’s progress against its net migration target? 5.1 We have limited opinion on this question, as clearly the Home Office itself is the primary user in this regard. However, the net migration target does not allow for the existence of uncertainty in the measurement of migration – perhaps it should. Also, net migration is influenced by movements in in- or out-migration and the components of each of these flows. The target should appreciate the variation in each of these components as well as measuring the net effect. 6. What more could be done to improve the quality of migration statistics? Should data from other sources, such as e-Borders, be incorporated? 6.1 Much has already been done to improve the quality of migration statistics. As a broad comment, we are concerned about the ability to further improve quality when the government is cutting back its spending on statistics. 6.2 Despite the recent improvements in the IPS, it remains a small sample survey of 5,000 migration contacts in an 800,000 contact survey. Further improvements to the survey are probably only to be gained by considerably increasing the sample size. 6.3 In the immediate future, we expect that the Home Office and ONS will be evaluating their migration estimates in the light of the 2011 Census data, and that further improvements will result. 6.4 E-borders data will be of marginal help and there are still lots of technical problems to be resolved. They will not fill the gaps in duration of stay; reason for migrating; nationality; long- and short-term travel; and we currently have no indication what kind of data outputs might result. 6.5 The measurement of emigration is a particular issue, and we have already noted above that more use should be made of other countries’ data to understand the number and characteristics of UK emigrants. For example, the Australian, Canadian and USA statistical websites give annual estimates of immigrants from the United Kingdom. Through its membership of relevant international committees and working parties, the ONS could proactively encourage cooperation between member states of organisations such as the European Union, OECD and UN to work together on this issue. Many countries have an interest in migration statistics which help to improve their understanding of their labour markets, economies and social issues, and to plan appropriate services. 6.6 At a local level, the estimates of international emigration need to be linked more closely to the estimates of international immigration, to reduce any potential bias in the net migration estimates. 6.7 A step change in the quality of migration statistics would require the development of a population register as in many other European countries. This would not be a panacea, and would have many difficulties associated with it – but is worthy of a feasibility study. This is even more important in the context of the ONS considering alternatives to a future Census. In the meantime more people could be encouraged to register with a NHS GP – as this is the de facto population register used in population estimates. January 2013 ©Parliamentary copyright Prepared 4th February 2013 Footer links * A-Z index * Glossary * Contact us * Freedom of Information * Jobs * Using this website * Copyright * Accessibility * Email alerts * RSS feeds * Contact us ____________________ Search * Home * Parliamentary business * MPs, Lords & offices * About Parliament * Get involved * Visiting * Education * House of Commons * House of Lords * What's on * Bills & legislation * Committees * Publications & records * Parliament TV * News * Topics You are here: Parliament home page > Parliamentary business > Publications and Records > Hansard > Commons Debates > Daily Hansard - Debate 23 Nov 2010 : Column 147 23 Nov 2010 : Column 147 House of Commons Tuesday 23 November 2010 The House met at half-past Two o'clock Prayers [Mr Speaker in the Chair] Oral Answers to Questions Justice The Secretary of State was asked- Imprisonment for Public Protection 1. John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): How many prisoners who have completed their tariff remain in prison for the purpose of public protection. [25560] The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Kenneth Clarke): On 17 November 2010, 14,680 prisoners were serving an indeterminate sentence of imprisonment for public protection, or a life sentence in prisons or secure hospitals. Of those, 6,320 are held beyond their tariff expiry date, excluding offenders who have been recalled to custody following release. John Mann: Those prisoners have been held in prison for good reasons and on good judgment. Does the Secretary of State intend, as is rumoured throughout prisons, to reduce the number of such offenders in prison? If so, how many sex offenders and violent criminals will be released back into our communities? Mr Clarke: That rumour is probably on the hon. Gentleman's website where I have seen that he is telling his constituents that I will release robbers, burglars, drug dealers and so on. Perhaps he will wait for the sentencing review, and stop living in a fantasy world. The indeterminate prison sentence has never worked as intended. The intention was that it would apply to a few hundred dangerous people who were not serving life sentences. The number is piling up, and more than 6,000 have gone beyond their tariff, but they will not simply be released. We will re-address the subject, and we will not release all the people he keeps telling his constituents we will release. Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): Will the Secretary of State look at the Prison Reform Trust's report and specifically conduct a review of the social and financial costs and benefits of IPP sentences, and examine the available policy options set out by the trust? Mr Clarke: We are taking a balanced look at the whole subject. The Prison Reform Trust takes quite the opposite view to that of the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann). It believes that those sentences should be 23 Nov 2010 : Column 148 scrapped entirely. It is critical of the way they work, and it is clear that they are not working as intended, but the Government are hoping to take a balanced view. We must obviously protect the public against dangerous people and the risk of serious offences being committed on release. On the other hand, about 10% of the entire prison population will be serving IPP sentences by 2015 at the present rate of progress, and we cannot keep piling up an ever-mounting number of people who are likely never to be released. Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): Does the Secretary of State accept that it is inherent in both life sentences and the concept of IPP sentences, which are widely supported throughout the Chamber, that many prisoners will be tariff-expired because the idea is that they are not released until it is judged that it is safe to do so? Does he also accept that although it is true that the precise construction of the clauses was inappropriate and led to some very short tariffs, since the changes that I introduced in 2008, the number of new IPP sentenced prisoners has dropped by 50% from about 1,500 to under 1,000 a year? Would it not be far better for public safety to let that work through instead of prematurely releasing such prisoners? Mr Clarke: No, it has always been the case that some people are held indeterminately, and certainly those on life sentences. The purpose of IPP sentences was to have a sentence below a life sentence for dangerous people for whom life was not quite justified. The right hon. Gentleman will accept that such sentences never worked as intended, which is why, when he was Secretary of State, he introduced an Act of Parliament to try to correct some of the mistakes that had been made. We are now considering how the sentence works in practice, and we will introduce considered proposals in due course. Administration of Justice 2. Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): What proposals he is considering to increase the level of efficiency in the administration of justice. [25561] The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert): Following the spending review, the Ministry of Justice must make a total budgetary saving, including resource and capital spending, of 25% in real terms between 2010-11 and 2014-15. Guy Opperman: I remind the House of my former profession of barrister. Eleven years ago, the Labour Government introduced the Woolf reforms, which changed all manner of process in the civil courts. What detailed proposals does the Minister have for the same telephone case management in criminal work, particularly post-not guilty pleas, and after-guilty pleas and sending matters for pre-sentence report? Nick Herbert: We are certainly interested in improving the efficiency of justice by looking at case management, and some encouraging pilots have been run in London, in which costs have been saved through integrated case management arrangements between the Crown Prosecution Service and the police. We are also very interested in employing the greater use of technology, such as virtual courts, and I would be very happy to talk to my hon. Friend about other ideas as well. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 149 Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): In the name of so-called efficiency of justice, the Secretary of State has scrapped the post of chief coroner, a move widely condemned by organisations such as Inquest and the Royal British Legion. They point out that tens of thousands of people every year are forced to grapple with the archaic, unaccountable coroners system, which needs the reforms promised by the Coroners and Justice Act 2009. The Minister said that scrapping the chief coroner was necessary to save money, but what assessment has he made of the increased costs that will be incurred through the greater use of judicial review, which is bound to result from this short-sighted decision? May I invite the Secretary of State or his Minister to put on record now exactly what the real cost will be of that false efficiency? Or will he take this opportunity to reverse that misguided proposal? Nick Herbert: We do not think that this was a sustainable proposal, with set-up costs of £10 million and running costs of £6 million a year. The important thing now is to reform the coroners system appropriately to ensure the efficient administration of justice in this area. Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): What steps are Ministers taking to ensure that savings do not simply become higher costs for other Departments or other parts of their own Department, whether in the context of magistrates court closures, which adds to police costs, or changes in the legal aid system that generate demand for expenditure elsewhere? Is there a mechanism for assessing how costs will fall elsewhere? Nick Herbert: I agree with my right hon. Friend about the importance of ensuring that what he describes does not happen, but he will know that there is significant under-utilisation of magistrates courts. That is why we have had to take this action in consulting about closure, not least in relation to the Tynedale magistrates court, which is adjacent to his constituency in Northumberland and which is operating at a utilisation rate of only about two thirds. National Offender Management Service 3. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): What assessment he has made of the adequacy of the support given by the National Offender Management Service to children in young offender institutions who have been in care. [25562] The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert): The National Offender Management Service has a responsibility to safeguard the welfare of all young people in custody, and all young offender institutions are regularly inspected by Her Majesty's inspectorate of prisons. Revised guidance on the responsibilities of local authorities to support young people leaving care is due to be published shortly by the Department for Education. It will include a chapter dedicated to the responsibilities for supporting care leavers involved in the criminal justice system. Luciana Berger: I thank the Minister for that reply. I recently met representatives of the Liverpool Children in Care Council and heard young people expressing concern about the level of support given to young 23 Nov 2010 : Column 150 offenders who are looked-after children. Typically, they do not have the same support networks that other young offenders have. Will the Minister now commit to revisiting this issue to ensure that vulnerable young offenders are given the help and support that they need to get their lives back on track? Nick Herbert: I certainly agree with the hon. Lady about the importance of providing such support. Last week, I visited Feltham young offenders institution with the Mayor of London and saw how innovative arrangements to provide greater support and counselling for young people had a considerably reduced the recidivism rate on a particular wing in that institution. That shows that, with better rehabilitation, we can get better results. I would be very happy to talk to the hon. Lady about any specific ideas she might have for improving the system. Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): Is it any wonder that children in care do not have the necessary continuity of support once they are in custody, given that the full financial responsibility of local authorities is lost at that point? Will the Government ensure that when such children in care are in custody, they are not out of sight, out of mind and off the financial books of the local authorities? Nick Herbert: It is important to ensure that the incentives are right, that we deter the inappropriate use of custody for young people and that local authorities are fully focused on what they need to do to reduce recidivism before the use of custody becomes important. Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): The Minister will be aware that, according to a written ministerial statement today, the Omand review of the case of Jon Venables was released this morning. It is 114 pages long. Is he also aware that my constituent, Ralph Bulger, the father of James Bulger, and his brother Jimmy Bulger knew nothing about the release of this report today until the media contacted them, asking for a statement on what they thought would be in this 114-page document? Can he ensure that this kind of thing does not happen again? Nick Herbert: My understanding is that appropriate arrangements should have been made, and that Mr Bulger was aware of the report but not its release. I shall of course look into the matter, and I am happy to talk to the right hon. Gentleman about what went wrong, if something went wrong in this case. Sentencing Policy 5. Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): What recent progress he has made on reviewing his Department's policy on unduly lenient sentences. [25564] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt): The powers of the Attorney-General and Solicitor-General to refer certain Crown court sentences to the Court of Appeal on the grounds of undue leniency are working well. Sarah Newton: I am particularly concerned with the sentencing of people convicted of paedophilia and believe that the policy review should be based on evidence. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 151 What assurance can the Minister provide that data that the Ministry of Justice collects will separate crimes of paedophilia from all sexual offences as currently recorded? Without that data it will be difficult to review the appropriateness or otherwise of current sentencing policy. Mr Blunt: I can well understand my hon. Friend's concern. All offences of sufficient seriousness to be tried only in the Crown court can be referred through the unduly lenient sentences process to the Attorney-General or the Solicitor-General; and 17 of the 31 offences that are triable either way and listed in statutory instrument 2006/1116 refer to offences against children, which reflects how seriously the House takes the matter. Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): Thank you, Mr Speaker. You will be aware that on three occasions over the past two weeks the Secretary of State for Justice and the Deputy Prime Minister's deputy-the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper)-have come to the Chamber and essentially repeated from the Dispatch Box announcements already made in the media. I want to ask the Minister about reports in this Sunday's papers on the Department's sentencing plans. The current Prime Minister in March, the Conservative party manifesto in April and the Secretary of State in June all said words to the effect: "We will introduce a system where the courts will specify minimum and maximum sentences for certain offenders. These prisoners will only be able to leave jail after their minimum sentence is served by having earned their release, not simply by right." Will the sentencing review ditch that policy or keep it? Mr Blunt: I am afraid the shadow Secretary of State will have to wait until we produce the policy. It is entirely appropriate that it be presented to the House first. Sadiq Khan: It is outrageous that we have to buy The Times and read The Daily Telegraph to see what the Government are planning. That is not new politics, that is not the way to do things, and the Secretary of State, who has been an MP for 40 years and served in three Cabinets, should know better. The Minister ducked the previous question, but he and, indeed, the Secretary of State know that knife-crime cases cause real and lasting misery to the victims, to bereaved families and to communities. Before the general election and in their manifesto, the Conservatives were quite clear, because they said that "anyone convicted of a knife crime can expect to face a prison sentence." We know what the press say their Government will do, but what will the Minister do in the sentencing review to be published next week? Mr Blunt: This may be slightly tedious, but I must say again that the shadow Secretary of State will have to wait until the proposals are presented in a comprehensive fashion to the House. Of course, knife crime is an extremely serious offence, as we have acknowledged, but, as far as the precise proposals are concerned, the right hon. Gentleman, like everyone else, will have to wait until they are presented in a coherent fashion to the House first, as is appropriate. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 152 Prisoners (Voting Rights) 6. Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): What discussions he has had with the Deputy Prime Minister on the effects on prisons and prison staff of making arrangements for the implementation of voting rights for prisoners. [25565] 9. Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): What discussions he has had with the Deputy Prime Minister on the effects on prisons and prison staff of making arrangements for the implementation of voting rights for prisoners. [25568] 10. John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): What discussions he has had with the Deputy Prime Minister on the effects on prisons and prison staff of making arrangements for the implementation of voting rights for prisoners. [25569] The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Kenneth Clarke): Ministers are considering how to implement the judgment of the European Court of Human Rights, and when decisions have been taken, they will be announced to the House in the usual way. Roberta Blackman-Woods: I am sure the Secretary of State is aware that prison staff already have to deal with requests for further information about how voting rights will be implemented-not only from prisoners, but from local communities who have grave concerns about the matter. Will he meet a group of MPs for whom that is a particular concern, so that the needs of our constituents might be considered? Mr Clarke: I will consider that request when we have announced our conclusions, which we will, to the House. The previous Government were incapable of taking a decision on the Hirst recommendation, which was made five years ago, and we are about to produce our proposals. I would point out that remand prisoners already vote, and always have voted; they vote by post, and it has never caused any difficulty. In the end, there is no suggestion that prisoners are going to be registered in the prison at which they are Her Majesty's guests. Those that bother to get registered will be registered in constituencies scattered across the country. Of course I will consider the logistics if, after we have produced our proposals, it is apparent that any particular logistical problem will be posed. Mr Bain: When the Secretary of State meets the Deputy Prime Minister, will he pass on the grave disquiet of the people of Glasgow that the 93 convicted sex offenders, 10 convicted murderers and 15 convicted attempted murderers in Barlinnie jail in my constituency have not been exempted from the Government's review on the right to vote? The Secretary of State knows that neither the European Court of Human Rights nor case law from Strasbourg requires that such individuals should have the right to vote, so why do the Government not just do the right thing and rule it out? Mr Clarke: There is no suggestion-and there never has been-that every prisoner is going to get the vote. It is not the Government's consultation that is responsible, but a judgment given five years ago by the European 23 Nov 2010 : Column 153 Court of Human Rights-a Council of Europe institution -and we are now deciding how to implement it. I cannot anticipate the Government's decision, which will be taken collectively by Ministers, but the idea that lots of murderers and rapists in Barlinnie prison are all going to be given the vote is, I suspect, rather fanciful. John Woodcock: The Secretary of State must understand the grave concern about this measure from the public and, I hope, from both sides of the House. If the Secretary of State is clear that there is no suggestion that murderers and rapists will be given the vote, why will he not simply rule out at least those two categories right now? Mr Clarke: The principal consideration is to take a decision and present it to the House. I am trying to shoot down some of the fanciful ideas that have been expressed. I understand the real concern about this: most of the House would have preferred not to change at all the existing ban on prisoners voting, but doing nothing-the previous Government's position-and allowing solicitors to go running around prisons signing up prisoners to get compensation for having their civil liberties denied is piling up quite a bill. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that Ministers will very soon resolve any uncertainty. Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): But is there not a contradiction at the heart of the Government's policy? Currently, all Members of Parliament represent all prisoners living in prisons within their constituency, yet the Secretary of State has said that they will be represented by Members of the constituencies where they were last registered. That contradiction needs to be resolved if representation of prisoners by prisoners is to be taken seriously. Mr Clarke: I think there is some confusion in the House about the convention that applies, which both I and my hon. Friend should resolve-although it is not my responsibility to resolve it. I take the view that I represent my constituents when they are in prison wherever it is that they are imprisoned, but I know that other MPs take the view that they represent every resident of a prison in their constituency. Perhaps we should resolve the parliamentary conventions on this matter at the same time as we have a look at which prisoners might have voting rights. Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): In considering the Government's policy on this thorny issue, will the Secretary of State, if he has to abide by the ruling of the European Court of Human Rights, restrict the right to vote to those prisoners at the lowest level of seriousness-for example, those dealt with by the magistrates courts for summary offences only? Mr Clarke: This applies only to prisoners-obviously, people who have not been in prison do not lose their vote at all. We have to comply with the judgment of the Court. The problem is that this extremely annoying issue will become even more annoying to the public and everyone else if we simply do nothing and wait until some huge financial judgment is made against the taxpayer, which will turn the present public anger into fury. That is why we are going to bring forward considered proposals. At the moment, someone not sent to prison does not lose their vote-irrespective of what other punishment they receive in their summary trial. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 154 Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): The Hirst judgment says that article 3 of protocol 1 of the European convention on human rights obliges this House to give some prisoners the vote; as we have heard, it also gives rise to financial compensation to some prisoners who have been denied that right. Although I sympathise with my right hon. and learned Friend, does he accept that there is an intellectual case for, in time, bringing powers back to Westminster in this area by repealing the Human Rights Act 1998 and withdrawing from the European convention of human rights? Mr Clarke: There has been another British case today, which has clarified the situation slightly and has underlined the fact that the Government have discretion on how to comply with their obligations. In due course, obviously, we shall establish a commission on how best to give effect to our human rights obligations in this country, but that will not happen until at least next year. The coalition Government do not intend to withdraw from the European convention on human rights, which was imposed by the victorious British on the rest of Europe after the war in order to establish British values across the countries that were recovering from fascism and was drafted largely by Sir David Maxwell Fyfe, who put what he thought were the best principles of British justice into it. Prison Places 7. Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): What steps he is taking to increase the number of prison places. [25566] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt): Our current plan is to build the prisons to which we are contractually committed. On the basis of current policies, we expect prisoner numbers to rise from about 85,393 last Friday to about 88,000 in 2015, and we expect the implementation of the proposals that will be outlined in the forthcoming Green Paper to reduce that number to about 3,000 fewer than today's figure. We will always provide enough prison places for those who the courts judge should receive a custodial sentence. Andrew Rosindell: Notwithstanding the Government's efforts to stabilise the prison population, will the Minister assure us that those who commit crimes and deserve to go to prison will continue to do so? Mr Blunt: Yes. Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): The Minister will know that it is a basic human right for people to be incarcerated as near as possible to where they reside. When will the Government comply with that basic requirement by providing a prison facility for north Wales, especially as we understand that Shrewsbury prison is to be closed? Such a prison would serve the whole of mid-Wales as well as north Wales, and, as the Minister knows, its establishment is long overdue. Mr Blunt: I am not sure that I recognise that as a basic human right, but it is certainly operationally sensible. Providing support for prisoners when they are incarcerated away from their families is an important 23 Nov 2010 : Column 155 part of assisting their rehabilitation into society. However, speculation about which prisons might or might not close in future is not appropriate at this stage. We will conduct a review of prison capacity in the light of the Green Paper and the responses to it, and only at that stage- Mr Speaker: Order. I think that we have the drift of the Minister's answer. We are grateful. Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): Surely the reoffending rate is a critical factor affecting the number of prison places that are required. Restorative justice programmes such as that of the Sycamore Tree foundation, which operates at Haverigg prison in Cumbria, are both inexpensive and highly effective in reducing reoffending. What steps is the Minister taking to increase the number of restorative justice programmes in Britain's prisons? Mr Blunt: I suggest to my hon. Friend that he can look forward to the Green Paper with great interest. Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): According to the latest figures, more than half the prisons in England and Wales are officially overcrowded. If the Minister is ultimately successful in reducing the number of prisoners, what will his priority be-to close prisons or to reduce overcrowding? Mr Blunt: It is a bit rich for the right hon. Gentleman to ask that question. As a former Prisons Minister, he bears part of the responsibility for the level of overcrowding that we have inherited. Sadly, the answer is that we are not in a position to create enough prison places to be able to address the problem of overcrowding. That will probably have to wait for more economically propitious times. It will take us a while to get the economy into the shape that will enable us to deal with the prison overcrowding that we have inherited. Legal Aid (Immigration Appeals) 8. Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): How much was spent on legal aid for cases in respect of immigration appeals in the last 12 months. [25567] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): In 2009-10, overall legal aid expenditure on advice and representation in immigration and asylum appeals was £85 million. I should, however, point out that it is not possible to identify expenditure for initial advice separately from expenditure before the immigration and asylum tribunal in cases in which both advice and representation are provided. Mr Evennett: I thank the Minister for his response. Can he confirm that, under the coalition Government proposals, immigration cases will be taken out of the scope of legal aid? Mr Djanogly: Yes, I can confirm to my hon. Friend that we are consulting on removing all immigration matters from the scope of legal aid, other than for those in immigration detention. That means removing matters 23 Nov 2010 : Column 156 such as varying leave to remain-for example, if a foreign student wants to change their visa to get permission to work instead, or, indeed, to stay here for longer. Such cases will no longer be at the taxpayer's expense. Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): One of the ways in which we can cut down on waste in the legal aid budget is to address no-shows by Home Office officials at immigration hearings. Can the Minister tell me the number of cases in which Home Office representatives do not turn up to these hearings and the cost of that to the legal aid bill, or will he write to me with that information? Mr Djanogly: I will write to the right hon. Gentleman with that information, but I can tell him that it is an issue. Defendants' representatives not turning up for hearings is also an issue. Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): Responding to Lord Carter's 2006 review of legal aid, the Minister said it put very vulnerable individuals at risk, that people were not being represented and that the structure was "being destroyed", and he concluded: "I would say it's a meltdown." Carter reduced the budget by about 5%, whereas the current Government's Green Paper cuts civil legal aid income by 42%. How would the Minister describe that? Mr Djanogly: The important point to make is that the last Government did, indeed, look at legal aid: they had more than 30 consultations over a five-year period, including Carter. The result of that was that providers and those in receipt of legal aid were lost within the system and did not know where cuts were coming from, and what we are doing now is putting forward a comprehensive review of legal aid, whereby providers and all stakeholders will be able to see their position within the system-and as a result the consultation will be accurate. Mr Slaughter: Well, we can all make what we will of that, but the fact remains that more than half a million people who may have unfairly lost their job, their income, their right to decent housing or access to their children-or, indeed, who may have been deported from the country, as the Minister has just said-will now go without advice or representation, whereas criminal legal aid and some of the high-cost advocates earning more than £900,000 a year are largely untouched. The Secretary of State said in his statement on these measures that it was important to strike a balance. Does the Minister not think that the balance has been got wrong in this case? Mr Djanogly: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the consultation document, which has clearly got a section on very high-cost cases, and on which we have significant proposals. More particularly, the Labour manifesto said it wanted to cut legal aid, so if he is going to talk about our cuts, perhaps he might like to say where he would be making cuts in legal aid. Miscarriages of Justice 11. Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): What recent discussions he has had on the provision of services to people who have experienced trauma as a result of a miscarriage of justice. [25570] 23 Nov 2010 : Column 157 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt): We want to help people who have suffered trauma as a result of a miscarriage of justice to access support that ought already to be available, for instance through the national health service. We will work with the Department of Health, other Departments and the voluntary sector to that end. Katy Clark: I thank the Minister for that answer. I recently met the Miscarriages of Justice Organisation, as constituents of mine have been affected by having been wrongly imprisoned for lengthy periods. I understand that under the previous Government, the Justice Ministry was looking at how better to provide support services to such people. Is that work still going on, and will the Minister be willing to meet me and other Members with constituents who have been similarly affected, because we are not dealing with this issue well enough at present? Mr Blunt: I am afraid that we have concluded that, due to the extremely challenging financial climate, it no longer makes sense to go ahead with the work started by the last Government on identifying the unmet medical needs of those who have suffered a miscarriage of justice because there are not going to be additional funds to meet those needs. Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Despite that answer, will the Minister still agree to meet those interested MPs, because in a previous answer he said the Government would ensure that services were available through the NHS, whereas the fact is that they are not? These particular needs can best be met-and most effectively and most cost-efficiently-by having a more discrete system, and it would pay the Minister and the Department to meet these MPs and MOJO. Mr Blunt: I am, of course, very happy to meet parliamentary colleagues to discuss this issue. Meetings are due between Ministry of Justice officials and those in the Department of Health to see how matters can be improved. I am sure that those discussions will be improved by the knowledge that I will gain from colleagues, so I am happy to have the meetings. Legal Aid 12. Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): What steps he plans to take to fulfil the aspiration in the coalition agreement to increase the efficiency of the legal aid system. [25571] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): The consultation document "Proposals for the Reform of Legal Aid in England and Wales", published on 15 November, sets out proposals to make the legal aid scheme more efficient. We looked from first principles at its scope, the eligibility rules, and the fees paid to lawyers and other providers of legal aid. We looked at alternative sources of funding, and we are also consulting on reducing administrative bureaucracy and making the system simpler to operate. Christopher Pincher: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer, but will he take this opportunity to make it clear that the issues raised by Des Hudson of the Law Society are unfounded, that access to justice 23 Nov 2010 : Column 158 will still be available for people who really need it and that worthy organisations such as Citizens Advice are valued by this Government? Mr Djanogly: Yes, we are certainly very keen to work with voluntary organisations such as Citizens Advice to ensure more efficient and focused provision of legal aid, and included in that will be our proposals for a civil law telephone gateway service. By refocusing legal aid we aim to ensure that taxpayers' money will be prioritised to help the vulnerable receive the legal support that they need. Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): The Secretary of State will know that proposals to close both the county court and magistrates court in my town of Whitehaven have been met with widespread anxiety and have been condemned by the local bench and local solicitors. Will he agree to meet us, so that he can learn at first hand just how ruinous the proposals would be if enacted? Mr Djanogly: The courts consultation closed in mid-September. We have been examining the significant number of responses and will be reporting back to the House on them before the new year. I am sure that the representations that the hon. Gentleman has made on his local courts will be examined and, following our decision, I would be happy to meet him. Offenders (Alcohol Dependency) 13. Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): What recent estimate he has made of the number of offenders with an alcohol dependency. [25572] 17. Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): What recent estimate he has made of the number of offenders with an alcohol dependency. [25576] The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert): In a survey carried out in 2005-06, 23% of prisoners sentenced from one month to four years reported having drunk alcohol four weeks prior to custody and said that they would find it quite difficult or impossible to stop drinking. We also estimate that 37% of offenders subject to community orders have an alcohol-related problem linked to their offending and their risk of reconviction. Nick Smith: I thank the Minister for that reply. Given that alcohol misuse is estimated to cost £7.3 billion in crime and antisocial behaviour, and that it was a factor in 18,000 incidents of violent crime in Wales in 2008, can he assure the House that help for prisoners with alcohol problems will be given the same priority as help for offenders with drug problems? Nick Herbert: It is important that alcohol problems are tackled, both among offenders given community orders and those in custody. We know that treatment for alcohol problems is cost-effective; the United Kingdom alcohol treatment trial found that for every pound spent on treating problem drinkers £5 is saved on costs to health, social and criminal justice services. That is why, in the long term, providing such services on a payment-by-results basis is the answer. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 159 Mrs Chapman: Given the undeniable link between alcohol misuse and crime, does the Minister believe that someone's being excessively drunk is seen as sufficiently aggravating by the courts when they pass sentence? Nick Herbert: We have not received any representations to the contrary. These matters can be considered by the Sentencing Guidelines Council, and we believe that sufficient powers are available to the courts. The important thing is that when offenders are sentenced, they should receive adequate treatment-that applies both to community and jail sentences-so that addiction can be dealt with. Sentencing Policy 14. Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): When he expects to publish his proposals on the future of sentencing policy. [25573] The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Kenneth Clarke): We intend to publish a Green Paper setting out proposals on sentencing and rehabilitation in December. Richard Harrington: On a recent visit to the Hertfordshire probation trust in Watford, I was impressed by the efforts it has made and the success it has achieved in reducing reoffending rates. The staff told me, in particular, of their view that short-term prison sentences were detrimental to those efforts. Will the Secretary of State come to Watford to meet them, so that he can share those experiences? Mr Clarke: I am grateful for that invitation; I have already received a letter. I shall do my best, although I am not quite sure when I will get to visit the probation trust. The Government are placing particular emphasis on rehabilitation and on reducing our quite appalling reoffending rates, as we have ever since my right hon. Friend the Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice led for us on this matter in opposition. I accept that a great deal of good work is being done on the ground now and obviously we will have to build on it. I quite agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Watford (Richard Harrington) about the ineffectiveness of some short sentences, because nothing whatever is done when people go out of the gate once they have finished their sentence, but I am quite clear that we cannot get rid of all short-term sentences. I have always believed that for a certain number of cases no alternative is reasonably practical for magistrates. Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): The crimes of child abduction, gross indecency with children, sexual activity with a child under 13, sexual assault of a female and sexual assault of a male have all attracted custodial sentences of six months or under in the past year. Will the Lord Chancellor give a commitment that under the sentencing review none of those crimes will be subject to community-based sentences, as he has proposed potentially in comments that he has made to date? Mr Clarke: I have no idea why the heart of our sentencing reform is described by sections of the press and some Members of Parliament as just getting rid of all short-term sentences and replacing them with community 23 Nov 2010 : Column 160 sentences. I have no doubt that there is an important role for community sentences, and we must make them more credible, more punitive and more effective-some of them already are. The important thing is that every case should receive the right sentence based on the facts and the offender in order to protect the public. That will be the underlying aim of the entire sentencing review. Legal Aid (Clinical Negligence Cases) 15. Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): What assessment he has made of the effects on the NHS of removing clinical negligence from the scope of legal aid. [25574] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): Clinical negligence cases against the NHS are funded approximately 50:50 between legal aid and no win, no fee agreements with lawyers. We will be interested to understand through our consultation the specific impact on the NHS of the removal of clinical negligence cases from the scope of legal aid, which should save some £17 million to legal aid. However, we also estimate that our proposals to reform no win, no fee conditional fee agreements will save around £50 million each year to the NHS in reduced legal costs. Dr Wollaston: Could reducing legal aid for clinical negligence lead to an upsurge in no win, no fee deals and an increase in the compensation culture? Mr Djanogly: My hon. Friend is right to point out that changes in one area can have knock-on implications in another area. It is important to point out that that is precisely why we put out the legal aid consultation document on the same day as Sir Rupert Jackson's proposals on no win, no fee agreements. The two can be weighed up together and the consultation will therefore take a holistic approach. Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): On legal aid, the Minister has spoken today about working with voluntary sector organisations. Community Links' welfare advice service in my area has seen 9,000 people so far this year. It is very cost-effective and has been paid for until now by legal aid. Under the Minister's proposals, it will not be in the future. How will that work be supported by the Government in the period ahead? Mr Djanogly: People have the option of getting conditional fee agreements, also known as no win, no fee agreements. They can go to a lawyer and that lawyer will take a view on the chances of success. The question that must be asked-we will be very interested to hear the responses to it during the consultation-is whether, if the private sector is not prepared to take on the risk, the public sector should be prepared to do so and what proportion of that risk it will be prepared to take on. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Following my question to my right hon. and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice during his legal aid statement, is there not a danger that, given the complexity of clinical negligence cases, the most vulnerable will not have access to no win, no fee simply because such companies will not offer their services to them? 23 Nov 2010 : Column 161 Mr Djanogly: There will still be power to grant legal aid in exceptional cases where a CFA will not be available, although that power will be restricted. The fact remains that CFAs will still be available for people with no ability to fund their cases so that they can take proceedings. Legal Aid (Family Law) 16. Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): What estimate he has made of the reduction in the number of family law cases that will be eligible for legal aid during the period of the comprehensive spending review. [25575] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): We estimate that removing from the scope of legal aid most private family law cases, except for those involving domestic violence, forced marriage and international child abduction, would reduce the number of people receiving advice under the legal aid scheme by about 211,000 annually and of those represented in court by just under 54,000 annually. Together, those figures represent an estimated annual saving of £178 million. However, we have also decided to retain legal aid for mediation to help separating couples sort out their issues without the courts where possible. Tony Lloyd: The Minister's last point is very important. In many such private cases, child-protection issues arise. Can he give the House an absolute guarantee that private cases in which child protection becomes an issue will still receive legal aid? If not, these cost savings will be at the expense of our children's future. Mr Djanogly: Absolutely; where a public family law matter arises, that case will remain within scope. If a child is subject to being taken away from their parents, legal aid will be available. Topical Questions T1. [25585] Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Kenneth Clarke): Following the conviction of Jon Venables on 23 July for possessing and distributing indecent images of children, I commissioned Sir David Omand to undertake an independent review into the management of Jon Venables from his release from local authority detention in June 2001 until his recall to custody on 24 February 2010. Today, I have placed a copy of Sir David's report in the Library. Sir David has concluded that Jon Venables was effectively and properly supervised at an appropriate level and frequency of contact, having regard to the particular circumstances of his case. Sir David also concludes that no reasonable supervisory regime would have been expected to detect his use of the computer to download indecent images. The report contains a number of recommendations on the future management of this and similar cases that will be taken forward by the National Offender Management Service. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 162 Mrs Chapman: Nineteen-year-old Scots Guardsman Andrew Gibson was killed in a Darlington nightclub. Yesterday, the Attorney-General said that he was unable to refer what many view as an excessively lenient sentence of just two and a half years to the Court of Appeal. Will the Secretary of State undertake to investigate the awarding of lenient sentences in which alcohol is an aggravating factor? Mr Clarke: The Attorney-General has a power to exercise in these cases and he has to exercise it in his quasi-judicial role by making a proper judgment and not just reacting politically. I understand the hon. Lady's concern about that case, but sentences are normally imposed by the court that has had the opportunity to hear all the evidence, facts and information about the accused person. The Attorney-General takes seriously his responsibility to step in where a mistake seems to have been made and ask a higher court to consider imposing a more serious sentence. I cannot claim to exercise any control over him in that regard; it is his difficult judgment to take in each case. T2. [25586] Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): The Lord Chancellor will be only too aware that one of his key responsibilities is looking after the Crown dependencies of Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man, Alderney and Sark. Will he explain to the House why the Crown dependencies were yet again refused the right to lay a wreath on Remembrance Sunday this year? Will he address this issue to ensure that next year they can do so like other countries in the Commonwealth? Mr Clarke: My right hon. Friend Lord McNally has the responsibility and the honour to lead on matters concerning Crown dependencies, which I assure my hon. Friend he takes very seriously. I keep discovering that he has made visits to the Crown dependencies to discuss these matters. I was quite unaware of this problem and I shall make inquiries of Lord McNally and those responsible for the ceremony about the background to this issue of laying a wreath on behalf of the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): The Secretary of State announced in the House last week-a day after ITN-that significant sums of money were to be paid to British residents and citizens who were detained at Guantanamo Bay, and he explained the factors behind the decision. Does he agree that there is an urgent need to resolve the claims of British victims of terrorist attacks overseas and will he commit today to such compensation being paid as a matter of urgency? Mr Clarke: The right hon. Gentleman rightly expresses irritation about leaks to newspapers and the television, and I assure him that I share all that irritation. [ Interruption. ] If I were indulging in the kind of masterful spin-doctoring of the previous Administration, I would have trailed them better than occurred either in the newspapers or ITN. I made the statement when I did because I was told that ITN had carried the news the night before. I assure the right hon. Gentleman that, if he helps me to find out where the information is coming from, I will take appropriate steps. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 163 On compensation for victims of terrorism and crimes, we are having to review the criminal injuries compensation scheme. We are having to look at the prospects for the compensation for terrorism scheme. The fact is that we were left with a system of criminal injuries compensation that was not working. We have enormous liabilities piling up for which the previous Government had not made adequate funds available, so we have hundreds of millions of pounds-worth of arrears of claims. Sadiq Khan: That is a different issue. Mr Clarke: It is not a different issue. They are related issues and we will give our conclusions in due course. Several hon. Members rose - Mr Speaker: Order. There is a lot of interest and little time. From now on, we need short questions and short answers. T3. [25587] Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): What assurance can Ministers give my constituents in west Cornwall that the legal aid reforms published last week will not adversely affect the coverage of, or reduce access to, legal aid, particularly in civil and family proceedings? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly): The hard facts are that the amount of legal aid being paid out in civil cases will be reduced. As part of the Government's savings of £2 billion, £350 million is subject to be taken out of legal aid by 2014-15. That means that we will focus legal aid on the most vulnerable who need legal representation. T4. [25588] Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): A number of professionals have contacted me about their worries that, once the Youth Justice Board disappears, there will be a lack of co-ordination and an increase in reoffending by young people. Can the Secretary of State give any reassurance to those professionals that when their work disappears inside the Ministry of Justice, that co-ordination work will still be taken seriously? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt): Yes, I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. As the Minister with responsibility for youth justice, I will make sure that the functions carried out by the Youth Justice Board will be properly executed within the Ministry of Justice. The Youth Justice Board has done good work, but now it is time for Ministers to take direct responsibility for the work. T5. [25589] Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): Families in Witham town are concerned about the presence of paedophiles and sex offenders, and the risk that they pose to children in our local community. What steps is the Secretary of State taking, in conjunction with other Government agencies, to ensure that my constituents are protected from those dangerous individuals? The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert): My hon. Friend might know about the child sex offender disclosure scheme, which is being extended to 24 police forces, having been successfully piloted in 23 Nov 2010 : Column 164 11 police force areas. It allows members of the public to ask the police to check whether people have contact with their children at risk. They have already successfully protected children and provided considerable reassurance to parents. T6. [25590] Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): It is clearly inappropriate for convicted criminals to celebrate Christmas with raucous parties in prison. Is the Secretary of State certain that present Ministry of Justice guidance will prohibit such activity this Christmastime? Mr Clarke: I hate to tell the hon. Lady that there are no good parties going on in prisons to which I can invite her over Christmas. The whole story about parties was faintly ridiculous. The announcement by the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt) did not mention parties and had very little to do with parties. Time was-I can remember from my youth-when a popular song began with "The warden threw a party in the county jail," but we do not approve of that kind of thing nowadays. Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): Every suicide is a tragedy, but particularly in prisons it is more harrowing for the family, other prisoners and the prison staff. With that in mind, can one of the Ministers give an update on the programme of installing safer cells? Mr Blunt: About 6,200 safer cells have been provided since 2005. I acknowledge my hon. Friend's consistent interest in that. Our objective is to make sure that safer cells are available in all circumstances for offenders deemed to be vulnerable and to require such accommodation. T7. [25591] John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): It was as recently as 30 June, when the Government had had nearly two months to examine and find how unexpectedly bad the public finances were, that the Secretary of State said that he would explore "proposals to restore public trust through minimum/maximum sentencing". Can he tell us what has changed since then? Mr Clarke: Not much has changed. We are exploring proposals of all kinds. We are about to produce a Green Paper in December, and as is always the case-there is nothing new in this-people try to guess what might be in it. Some people make informed guesses, some make uninformed guesses and some get it right. The hon. Gentleman will have to wait until December to see our final judgments about how best to reform a sentencing system which is over-complicated, difficult for the judges to understand and ripe for reform, and which is completely failing to protect the public by getting reoffending rates down to a sensible level. Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): Recently, a group of Travellers was served with an eviction order from the site next to St Peter's, a new school in my constituency of Filton and Bradley Stoke, only for another group of Travellers to move in as soon as the site was vacated. Will the Minister look at the law in 23 Nov 2010 : Column 165 question to see whether it can be changed so that it is site-specific, rather than applying to individuals in certain cases? Mr Blunt: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the question. We are already looking at the law on squatting; this, in a sense, is an associated issue. I shall be happy to examine it as well. T9. [25593] Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): As part of the review that the Secretary of State is carrying out into implementing giving prisoners the right to vote, will he consider the issue as, in some ways, a positive opportunity to prepare them for reintegration into society? How is he approaching that? Mr Clarke: Of course we would welcome prisoners preparing in any way for rehabilitation as honest citizens in society. I wait to see how many prisoners will actually take advantage of the opportunity when we decide the extent to which we have to go to comply with the Court judgment. It is conceivable that in some cases the vote would widen the mind of prisoners and prepare them for taking on the obligations of citizenship. I actually do not think, however, that we should take that too far. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): The Government intend to amend the law on the prosecution of universal jurisdiction offences. Does the Lord Chancellor agree that it would be unseemly for decisions relating to those prosecutions to rest with the Law Officer who is also a politician, as would be the case for the Attorney-General? Mr Clarke: The consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions is what we are contemplating. The Government have committed themselves to that. This is a question of arrest; we are looking at citizen's arrest. We want to keep the right of citizen's arrest but we do not want it to be a publicity stunt based on inadequate evidence, so we are contemplating making it subject to the DPP's consent. We are simply trying to find the legislative time to do it. The Government have committed to doing this as rapidly as possible. Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): Can the Justice Secretary tell us how many times he or his Ministers have spoken to the Scottish Justice Minister about prisoners voting rights? Mr Clarke: I have written to Kenny MacAskill and I see him from time to time. I have not yet got a response, but I expect to be in close contact with the Scottish Government when we make any change, because I suspect that it will apply to the entire United Kingdom. Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): Last Friday, a 16-year-old boy in my constituency was horrifically beaten and stabbed outside his school in full view of his classmates. Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that we need to reserve the harshest penalties for those who viciously wield knives and to make sure that there is a strong deterrent against doing so? That young man lost his life as a result of that horrible crime. Mr Clarke: I am, of course, shocked to hear of the outrageous nature of the crime in my hon. Friend's constituency. We have to make sure that all our sentencing proposals give the courts all the powers they need. It is a 23 Nov 2010 : Column 166 question of how to set out the severity of the appropriate sentences, at the same time leaving the court in the end to decide on the exact sentence, based on the circumstances of the case and the offender. Although the recent habit-particularly under the last Government, who produced 21 different criminal justice Bills-was to keep producing very elaborate rules, in my experience judges do not need to be told that an offence of the kind described by my hon. Friend deserves the full force of the law and the severe punishment that the public would undoubtedly expect for such a case. Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Is not the vote for prisoners a dyed-in-the-wool Lib Dem policy? Is that not the real reason why the Secretary of State will not stand up for us and tell the European Court that the ruling is simply unacceptable to the British people and the vast majority of our MPs? Mr Clarke: It is not a dyed-in-the-wool Conservative policy, it is true, but it should be the policy of every responsible Member of the House to accept that we have to comply with a judgment of the European Court, because nobody is advocating withdrawing from the convention. The hon. Gentleman's party accepted that. His party never repudiated the judgment; it always accepted that it was going to have to give votes to prisoners. It wasted five years and two consultation exercises, however, because it was incapable of taking a decision in advance of an election-or at all, as it happened. Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): On a less controversial subject, what scope is there for mediation in family law cases, and will such cases continue to qualify for legal aid? Mr Djanogly: We have taken the view that mediation should be retained within the scope of legal aid, and we think that it should be thoroughly encouraged. Too often, people take the course of court when they should look towards sorting out issues between themselves, and mediation will play a big part in enabling them to do that. Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): On prisoner voting, will the Secretary of State have the grace to accept that before the election, given the implacable opposition from the whole of the Conservative party from top to bottom, with the then shadow Justice Secretary describing the proposal as "ludicrous", and deep and profound concern on our Back Benches, it was not that one did not want to do something, but that there was no way in the world that such a measure would have passed through this House? Mr Clarke: I am relieved to hear that the right hon. Gentleman, my predecessor, was so implacably determined to press on with this issue throughout his five years. He should perhaps have a word with the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe), who could explain how committed he was. I am impressed that it was solely the opposition of Conservative Front Benchers that caused this five-year delay. I suspect that the right hon. Gentleman was having difficulty with Downing street and the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and 23 Nov 2010 : Column 167 Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) and others in coming to any decision about anything, or doing anything about it, before the general election. [ Interruption. ] Mr Speaker: Order. There is so much noise in the Chamber that the hon. Member for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) could not hear me call him. Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): Can my right hon. and learned Friend take the time to remind the House which party was in power when the Human Rights Act 1998 was incorporated into British law, and, more pertinently, who was the Secretary of State responsible for it? Mr Clarke: It was certainly the Blair Government who introduced the Human Rights Act. I regret to say that I cannot remember who the Secretary of State was, but it was probably the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw). Actually, he probably has more things to answer for than that, but that was certainly one of the things that he put on the statute book. Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss setting up an employers liability insurance bureau to ensure that victims of asbestos-related diseases who cannot trace either 23 Nov 2010 : Column 168 employer or insurer are compensated? I am sure that if he will meet up with me, I can fill him in and persuade him why it is so important. Mr Clarke: The Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), will probably be in touch with the hon. Lady to deal with that suggestion. There are obviously very difficult issues involved in these asbestos claims-they troubled the previous Government, and there have been decisions for the courts. We will therefore consider her suggestion with interest; it has been made before, but we will consider it again and come back to her. Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): The Government are rightly focused on getting more people who are out of work into work, but a particular group of concern is ex-offenders. Will the Government, as part of the big society, continue to support charitable organisations such as the Apex Trust, which does a wonderful job in getting those offenders back into work? Mr Blunt: I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. One of the mechanisms we will use is payment-by-results schemes to turn offenders into taxpayers. That means that there will be rewards both for stopping offenders reoffending and for getting offenders into employment. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 169 Controlling Migration 3.33 pm The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May): With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on immigration. Controlled migration has benefited the UK economically, socially and culturally, but when immigration gets out of control, it places great pressure on our society, economy and public services. In the 1990s, net migration to Britain was consistently in the tens of thousands each year, but under Labour, net migration to Britain was close to 200,000 per year for most years since 2000. As a result, over Labour's time in office net migration totalled more than 2.2 million people-more than double the population of Birmingham. We cannot go on like this. We must tighten up our immigration system, focusing on tackling abuse and supporting only the most economically beneficial migrants. To achieve that, we will have to take action across all routes to entry-work visas, student visas and family visas-and break the link between temporary routes and permanent settlement. That will bring significant reductions in non-European Union migration to the UK and restore it to more sustainable levels. We aim to reduce net migration from the hundreds of thousands back down to the tens of thousands. On the work routes to entry, all the evidence shows that it is possible to reduce numbers while promoting growth and underlining the message that Britain is open for business. After consulting widely with business and with the Migration Advisory Committee, I have decided to reduce economic migration through tier 1 and tier 2 from 28,000 to 21,700. That will mean a fall of more than a fifth compared with last year in the number of economic migrants coming in through tiers 1 and 2, excluding intra-company transfers. Business groups have told us that skilled migrants with job offers-tier 2-should have priority over those admitted without a job offer, who are in tier 1. I have therefore set the tier 1 limit at 1,000, a reduction of more than 13,000 on last year's number. Such a sharp reduction has enabled me to set the tier 2 limit at 20,700, an increase of nearly 7,000 on last year's number. The old tier 1, supposedly the route for the best and the brightest, has not attracted highly skilled workers. At least 30% of tier 1 migrants work in low-skilled occupations such as stacking shelves, driving taxis or working as security guards, and some do not have a job at all, so we will close the tier 1 general route. Instead, I want to use tier 1 to attract more investors, entrepreneurs and people of exceptional talent. Last year, investors and entrepreneurs accounted for fewer than 300 people, and that is not enough, so I will make the application process quicker and more user-friendly, and I will not limit the numbers of those wealth creators who can come to Britain. There are also some truly exceptional people who should not need sponsorship from an employer but whom we would wish to welcome to Britain. I will therefore introduce a new route within tier 1 for people of exceptional talent-the scientists, academics and artists who have achieved international recognition, or are likely to do so. The number will be limited to 1,000 a year. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 170 Tier 2 has also been abused and misused. Last year more than 1,600 certificates were issued for care assistants to come to the UK. At the same time, more than 33,000 care assistants who were already here were claiming jobseeker's allowance, so I will restrict tier 2 to graduate-level jobs. We have listened to business and will keep intra-company transfers outside the limit. However, we will place a new salary threshold of £40,000 on any intra-company transfers of longer than 12 months. Recent figures show that 50% of intra-company transfers meet those criteria. That will ensure that those coming are only the senior managers and key specialists who international companies need to move within their organisations. I should like to thank the Migration Advisory Committee for its advice and recommendations. Next year, I will ask it to review the limit in order to set new arrangements for 2012-13. However, the majority of non-EU migrants are, in fact, students. They represent almost two thirds of the non-EU migrants entering the UK each year, and we cannot reduce net migration significantly without reforming student visas. Hon. Members and others might imagine that by students, we mean people who come here for a few years to study at university and then go home. However, nearly half of all students coming here from abroad are actually coming to study a course below degree level, and abuse is particularly common at those lower levels. A recent check of students studying at private institutions below degree level showed that a quarter could not be accounted for. Too many students at lower levels have been coming here with a view to living and working rather than studying, and we need to stop that abuse. As with economic migration, we will therefore refocus student visas on the areas that add the greatest value, and in which evidence of abuse is limited. I will shortly launch a public consultation on student visas. I will consult on restricting entry to only those studying at degree level, but with some flexibility for highly trusted sponsors to offer courses at a lower level. I will also consult on closing the post-study route, which last year allowed some 38,000 foreign graduates to enter the UK labour market at a time when one in 10 UK graduates were unemployed. Last year, the family route accounted for nearly 20% of non-EU immigration. Clearly, British nationals must be able to marry the person of their choice, but those who come to the UK must be able to participate in society. From next week, we will require all those applying for marriage visas to demonstrate a minimum standard of English. We are also cracking down on sham marriages, and will consult on extending the probationary period of settlement for spouses beyond the current two years. Finally, we need to restrict settlement. It cannot be right that people coming to fill temporary skills gaps have open access to permanent settlement. Last year, 62,000 people settled in the UK on that basis. Settling in Britain should be a privilege to be earned, not an automatic add-on to a temporary way in, so we will end the link between temporary and permanent migration. I intend to introduce these changes to the work route and some of the settlement changes from April 2011. I will bring forward other changes soon after. This is a comprehensive package that will help us to meet our 23 Nov 2010 : Column 171 goal of reducing net migration, at the same time as attracting the brightest and the best, and those with the skills our country needs. This package will serve the needs of British business, it will respond to the wishes of the British public, and it will give us the sustainable immigration system that we so badly need. Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): Let me start by thanking the Home Secretary for the-rather late-advance sight of her statement, for coming to the House this afternoon in person, and for clarifying the confusion caused by the misleading leak of the contents of her statement to the BBC this morning. The Home Secretary is right to say that migration has made, and continues to make, a vital contribution to the economic vibrancy, business strength and vitality of our country. She is also right to say that it is essential for migration to be properly controlled, for reasons of economic well-being and social cohesion. But the question is: how? The Labour Government put in place transitional controls on EU migration, a suspension of unskilled work permits, a tough but flexible points system to manage skilled migration, and tighter regulation of overseas students. They closed 140 bogus colleges, and imposed new citizenship requirements on those seeking settlement. At the general election, the leader of the Conservative party proposed to go further in two key respects. First, he proposed a new target to reduce net migration to the "tens of thousands by 2015." To meet that target, he pledged a cap on immigration, which he said would be tougher than the points system. At the time, the leader of the Liberal Democrat party said: "We can't come up with promises like caps which don't work". He then agreed to the cap in the coalition agreement. Since then, the Government have been in wholesale retreat, and today they are in wholesale confusion over this policy. The Confederation of British Industry, the chambers of commerce, universities, Nobel prize winners, and UK and foreign companies-large and small-have all highlighted the huge damage that the Government's proposals would do to investment and jobs. The Home Affairs Committee and the Migration Advisory Committee have said that the proposed cap applies to only 20% of non-EU migration. As a result, we have had the unedifying sight of the Prime Minister hinting at concession after concession-in the face, we read, of opposition from the Home Secretary, thanks to the excellent public lobbying and guerrilla tactics of the Business Secretary, who, sadly, is not in his place this afternoon. In his use of such tactics, he is less Stalin and more Trotsky-and certainly not Mr Bean. Today the Home Secretary has come to the House to confirm the details of the retreat. We will keep a close eye on her proposals to see how they affect business and science. None the less, we join business representatives in welcoming her decision to exempt intra-company transfers of workers. What has caused confusion is this morning's briefing to the BBC that the total cap would be 42,700 work permits. Her officials then had to clarify the fact that there is no such cap on that scale. She has now said that she will allow 21,700 tier 1 and tier 2 work permits, but with no cap on migration caused by intra-company transfers. If the number of intra-company 23 Nov 2010 : Column 172 transfers goes up, will she put in place an offsetting cut in tier 1 and tier 2 work permits? If not, and I very much hope that she will not, will she confirm that her supposed cap is a con, a guess and a fig leaf-in fact, no cap at all? The permanent secretary revealed today that 9,000 jobs will be lost from the Home Office, the bulk of which will be from the UK Border Agency. Will the Home Secretary confirm that she can implement the policy that she has outlined today, and keep our borders secure, with those cuts? On family reunification she had nothing new to say-no target-and on overseas students she announced no action, just another consultation. I have learned in the past few weeks that it is a mistake to ask the right hon. Lady a long list of questions, but there is one question to which it is vital that she should give an answer this afternoon: is it still the objective of the Prime Minister and the Government to cut net migration to the tens of thousands by 2015? In her statement she repeated the goal, but she omitted to put a date on it. Will she reaffirm the 2015 promise? In recent months-on VAT and tuition fees-the Deputy Prime Minister has got into a habit of breaking pre-election promises. Can the Home Secretary reassure us that the Prime Minister has not caught the same disease? This is a simple question. Is the "tens of thousands" pledge still binding by 2015-yes or no? Mrs May: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that response. During the Labour leadership campaign, he said: "as many of us found in the election, our arguments on immigration were not good enough." Listening to him today, I realised that Labour's arguments on immigration are still not good enough. He made a number of claims about what the Labour Government did on immigration, including the claim that they introduced transitional controls when new member states entered the EU. I seem to remember that when the first tranche of new member states entered the EU, that is precisely what they did not do, despite every blandishment from the Conservatives to encourage them. The right hon. Gentleman then said that the previous Government took action on the points-based system limits. I accept that, but what happened? They closed tier 3 of the points-based system of entry into the UK, but nothing else, so when tier 3 shut down, the number of student visas went up by tens of thousands. That is why this Government know that when we deal with one part of the immigration system, we must act across the whole of it. I made the figures for the tier 1 and tier 2 caps that we are introducing absolutely clear in my statement. The right hon. Gentleman asked whether the UK Border Agency could manage the cuts and keep our borders secure with the changes in personnel that will be made, and the answer to that, unequivocally, is: yes, it can. Finally, the right hon. Gentleman asked me to confirm what I said in my statement, which is that we aim to reduce net migration from the hundreds of thousands back down to the tens of thousands-[Hon. Members: "When? By 2015?"] If he is to criticise the Government's plans on immigration, the right hon. Gentleman must have a plan. So far he does not even have an immigration spokesman, let alone an immigration policy. The British people, who according to his own words felt that Labour 23 Nov 2010 : Column 173 was no longer on their side and no longer stood up for them on immigration, will not listen to him until he has an immigration plan. Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): If the cap is set too low-in other words, at a level that stops UK businesses creating wealth and jobs-or too high, how quickly can it be adjusted, and how will the adjustment process work? Mrs May: We are confident in the work that we have done, and in the fact that we have got the cap-and, crucially, the changes to policy-right. The announcement is about not just the figure, but the change in policy. The Migration Advisory Committee will undertake an annual review, so it will be able to advise the Government on what the figure should be in future, after considering how behaviour has adapted to the policy changes that we are introducing. Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): The right hon. Lady says, "We will end the link between temporary and permanent migration." How can temporary migrants, whether spouses or workers, earn permanent settlement? Mrs May: I am grateful to the hon. Lady, because she gives me the opportunity to say that we will be making initial changes to the settlement proposals, but that we also intend to consult more fully on exactly how we will introduce changes to settlement more widely. The initial changes will relate to the language requirements, but we will also look at the salary levels required for a sponsor to bring somebody in for settlement, and at the criminality thresholds. Those are the immediate issues that we will consider. I also intend to ask the Migration Advisory Committee to do some more work on changing the settlement requirements in the longer term. Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): I congratulate the Home Secretary and the Minister for Immigration on this admirable programme and the excellent start made. May I press her a little further on the breaking of the link between settlement and people coming here to work temporarily? At what stage does she expect to introduce the measures necessary to achieve that? Mrs May: I thank my hon. Friend for that question, and echo his thanks to my hon. Friend the Minister for Immigration for his sterling work. We are keen to look at these other routes, particularly the settlement route, as well as at the other aspects, and over the coming months, as I indicated in response to the hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart), we will be asking the Migration Advisory Committee to consider the matter so that we can introduce the changes. I hesitate to put an absolute date on that, but I hope that we will be able to announce something next year. Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): The Home Secretary is more famous for her footwear than her headgear, but may I welcome the exemptions to the cap that she has announced today? The Home Affairs Committee made recommendations on intra-company transfers and elite scientists, and this is the right approach for the immigration policy that the Government have decided to pursue. On 23 Nov 2010 : Column 174 students, however, she will not be able to tackle the issue of bogus colleges unless she accepts a previous recommendation by the Committee to restrict the use of the word "college". It is because this word continues to be used that people enter this country and pursue non-educational courses. Will she please look into that? Will she also examine how the whole administration of the immigration system operates in relation to illegal immigration? Mrs May: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. His turn of phrase encourages me to enjoy my time in front of the Home Affairs Committee when that happy occasion next comes around. He also made a serious point about his Committee's past recommendations on this issue. We will certainly look at his specific suggestion. We need to consider a number of ways of ensuring that students coming to the UK are genuinely coming as students and to institutions properly offering an education and providing a qualification. This is not just about the immigration system, but about the reputation of the UK, because we do not want people to come here thinking they are coming to a college on an educational course, but then find that they have come to something quite different. Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): I generally welcome my right hon. Friend's statement-but on EU migration, are we not in danger of ignoring the lessons of the past six years, when we imported more than 1 million low-wage and low-skilled workers, despite having 5 million of our own citizens on out-of-work benefits? Will she also explain why importing highly skilled workers is practical, when we have record numbers of UK and British graduates who could and should do those jobs? Mrs May: My hon. Friend is right about the need to ensure that people in the UK are skilled enough to take up the work available. The figures show that EU-UK immigration and emigration numbers have broadly balanced out, and that net migration is coming predominantly from outside the EU. Our immigration policy has to fit in closely with the skills agenda that my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary announced last week. On occasions, however, there will be highly skilled workers with a specialism that a British company needs-in areas such as the energy sector, for example-and it is right for Britain to be open for business, and for us to allow companies to grow by introducing those workers into the UK. Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): Given the views that were so robustly expressed during the general election campaign, I welcome, on behalf of many of my constituents, the Home Secretary's statement. Will she bear in mind another of their views, which is that they are now aware that the population of this country is primarily pushed by immigration? Will she tell us more certainly when she will return to the House to give a statement on breaking the link between coming here to work, which is often welcome, and almost automatically getting the right to citizenship? Mrs May: I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman's comments, and for his work, with my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames), on settlement 23 Nov 2010 : Column 175 in the UK. They have both done a lot of important work in highlighting the issue. I am afraid that I will disappoint the right hon. Gentleman in not being able to give him a date when I will come to the House, but I assure him that I will do so in due course, to show how we will be able to change that route. As he said, the British public were absolutely clear that the Government should do something about this matter. They saw a Labour Government who did not do anything about immigration. We are a Government who will deliver for the British people. Several hon. Members rose - Mr Speaker: Order. A great many Members are seeking to catch my eye, and I should like to accommodate as many as possible, so brevity from the Back Benches and the Front Benches alike is required. Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend's statement. She correctly mentioned student visas, and then mentioned consultation. Given that we have had 10 years of almost mass immigration, will she assure the House that that consultation will be swift? Mrs May: I am happy to assure my hon. Friend that we will issue that consultation very shortly, and that we want to be in a position to make changes to student visas next spring. Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): The immigration cap may be designed for the south of England, but it definitely does not fit Scotland. Does the right hon. Lady not even start to understand and appreciate that Scotland has a different range of population and demographic issues? How can immigration caps possibly help Scotland, which is suffering from structural depopulation? Mrs May: This proposal will help all parts of the United Kingdom, because it does two crucial things. It meets the British people's need to see us controlling our immigration system, but it does so in a way that will enable business to bring in skilled workers. Many businesses in Scotland have spoken to us about the need to bring in skilled workers-in the energy sector, for example-and I believe that they will welcome our decision today. Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): Specifically on the energy industries, on which so many jobs in my constituency depend, I welcome the flexibility and movement. Will the Home Secretary assure those industries that small companies in the supply chain will not face too bureaucratic a process for tier 2 applications, and that intra-company transfers will not be so time-limited as to make projects impossible to deliver? Mrs May: I am happy to give the comfort that my hon. Friend asks for. Indeed, we will look at the administrative process for tier 2 applications to ensure that they involve as little bureaucracy as possible, with small companies particularly in mind. I hope that he will see some benefits from that. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 176 Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): I wonder how many of us would be sitting here today, if in the 20th century our parents and grandparents had had to go through the sieve that the Home Secretary is putting in place to slow down the number of people coming to the UK. Does she agree, and will she say so more strongly, that the arrival of 10% of the English population in the form of Huguenots enriched Britain, that Jews who came here enriched Britain, and that Muslims and Pakistanis in my constituency have enriched Britain, and will she be very careful before she gives any comfort to Migrationwatch, the British National party and the United Kingdom Independence party, and their horrible anti-immigrant line? Mrs May: I have to say that several of the groups that the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned came here as refugees, and we are not talking about the asylum system today. We do need to examine the operation of our asylum system to ensure that it operates swiftly in the interests not only of the UK, but of those who are seeking asylum. However, that is not what we are debating today. Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Hon. Members will be delighted that the Home Secretary has announced this policy to the House first, and that the BBC was so wonderfully misinformed this morning. In Wellingborough, immigration is the No. 1 issue, but my constituents are more concerned about people coming from the European Union. I wonder how that question is going to be addressed. Mrs May: Unlike the last Labour Government, we have been absolutely clear that, for any new member states entering the European Union, we would apply transitional controls. Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Are not these proposals a damp squib that will have no real impact on the number of people coming to Britain? Bearing in mind that the Government have already ruled out EU migrants, intra-company transfers, students, sportsmen and women and anyone in the arts, who is left? Mrs May: Labour Members really are going to have to get their story in order as to exactly what they want to do on immigration. We want to ensure that Britain is open for business and that we can bring in skilled workers, which we will be doing, but that we can put in a cap that enables us to reduce net migration into this country. That is what the British people want, and it is what this coalition Government will deliver. Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): May I welcome the statement as representing a constructive way forward? Does the Minister agree that foreign students should leave the country and reapply if they want to change their course or apply for a work permit? Mrs May: My hon. Friend has raised an important point. One of the issues around students relates to those who come here to study one course and then move from course to course in order to be able to stay here. We will be looking at that issue in the consultation, and I can assure him that the proposal he has just made is exactly the kind of thing that will be in the consultation. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 177 Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The Home Secretary has suggested that there might be some concessions for those involved in the fishing industry. By and large, I welcome the proposals put forward today, but she has mentioned a concession of a year until September 2011 in regard to work permits for Filipino fisherman. Would she be prepared to consider extending that arrangement for another year, given that the fishing industry feels that it cannot do without it? Mrs May: I think that we will have to look at that matter again closer to the September 2011 deadline. I simply say to the hon. Gentleman that the more exceptions to the rules that people claim, the less effective the overall rules will be. We are absolutely clear that, within the rules that we have set, there are groups of very specialist workers. A number of issues have been raised with me about people with very particular skills who are needed by certain industries, and who we believe can come in, within the routes that we are setting out. Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con): Tony Blair's adviser once said that the sharp increase in immigration over the past 10 years was partly due to "a driving political purpose: that mass immigration was the way that the Government was going to make the UK truly multicultural". Can the Home Secretary confirm today that so-called social objectives are no longer acceptable as a reason for immigration, and that it should be based instead on the economic benefits that immigrants can bring to this country? Mrs May: As I said at the beginning of my statement, controlled migration can benefit this country economically, socially and culturally, but we are absolutely clear, in looking at the routes into the country for economic migrants, that the people who are coming in will bring a genuine economic benefit to the UK. Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): Does the £40,000 figure for intra-company transfers refer only to salaries or to salaries plus benefits? Mrs May: In line with current arrangements, there will be some allowance for allowances. Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): Immigration from Ireland to the UK has doubled from 7,000 to 14,000 as the euro crisis has developed. Will the Home Secretary confirm that, as well as having a legal right to come, those young people will be welcomed to our shores, and that we will continue to create the jobs that they need? Mrs May: My hon. Friend raises an interesting point that will be in many people's minds, given the situation in Ireland at the moment. Of course, movement is available within the European Union area, and movement from Ireland into the UK has been long standing. Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): What procedures and resources will be available for enforcing these proposals, given that one of the problems, under successive Governments, has been people overstaying when their visa has expired? 23 Nov 2010 : Column 178 Mrs May: One of the issues that we will look at among specific groups, such as students, is the number of people who overstay. That is one of the problems and abuses of the system, but, unlike the previous Labour Government, the current Government are committed-in addition to what we are doing on immigration-to proper UK border controls, through our work to ensure a UK border force. Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): May I warmly welcome the sensible decisions that my right hon. Friend has taken? Does she agree that, although the economic migration that she intends to permit is clearly of benefit to the nation, a population pushed up to 70 million is not? That is the inheritance she faced, on official figures, from the policies of the Labour party. Mrs May: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. It is clear that, if we take no action, the numbers of net migrants to the UK are likely to continue to be about 200,000 a year. We think that we need to do something about that, which is why we are introducing the package today and will be introducing further measures on other routes of entry. Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): English language schools in my constituency contribute more than £100 million to the local economy, yet they face real difficulties because of the uncertainty surrounding the student visa system. Will the Secretary of State ensure that a cost-benefit analysis to the UK economy of overseas students who study at our schools is carried out? What words of reassurance can she give to bona fide language schools that there will be a swift resolution to the issue? Mrs May: A number of hon. Members from all parts of the House with English language schools in their constituencies have raised the question of such schools. We take the issue very seriously, and one aspect of the student visas consultation will be aimed specifically at such schools and how we can introduce to the system some changes that will benefit them. Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): I thank my right hon. Friend for her statement, which will be welcomed in my constituency by people of all backgrounds and political persuasions. In particular, I welcome the exemption for wealth creators and the re-focusing of tier 1 on eminent scientists. Will she tell the House a little more about how the 1,000 limit will work? Mrs May: We are finalising the details of exactly how the 1,000 limit will work. We are also considering a role for bodies, such as research councils, in confirming those people who would be of benefit. We want to include not just those who are at a point in their career when they are known to be great scientists, artists and so forth, but also exceptionally talented people who are at the beginning of their careers. Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): The Home Secretary says that the aim is to reduce net migration from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands. Will she specify when she intends to do so? I thought I heard 23 Nov 2010 : Column 179 her say 2015, but doing that while slashing the border agency staff who need to do the job of policing is not going to wash with the British public. Mrs May: I had answered the point about what I said in relation to tens of thousands, and I answered the shadow Home Secretary's point about the UK Border Agency. As I said, we will be able to deliver the policy through the agency, and we will be able to ensure that the agency can deliver on its requirements, and we as a Government are committed to reinforcing our border security by introducing a border police command in the new national crime agency. Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): There are many approved, well-established and highly reputable English language schools in my constituency. I support much of the statement's content, but I am profoundly concerned about any further delay in sorting the problem with people coming to the UK to study English at such schools. I urge the Home Secretary to agree to meet me, a cross-party delegation of MPs and the Immigration Minister as soon as possible, because many companies and businesses in Eastbourne and throughout the UK are suffering badly. I urge her to grant me that opportunity. Mrs May: I am well aware that my hon. Friend has made significant representations on that point, as have other Members. Indeed, I believe he has already met the Immigration Minister. I would be happy to meet a group of MPs to discuss the matter, and, as I said in response to the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), we are very well aware of the point, which has been well made by many Members. We are conscious of the economic benefits of English language schools and some of their very specific issues with particular students from particular countries. We are looking at how we can address that issue in our student visa proposals, but I would be happy to meet a group of MPs. Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): I agree entirely with the need to take swift removal action against people who overstay their work or student visa entitlement, but this country has a problem with people who have overstayed for many decades and have given birth to children who are now adults. Can anything be done to regularise their situation so that they can go into legitimate employment without having to go through all the same hurdles and costs of applying for citizenship that others do? This represents a real barrier for those people. Mrs May: We inherited the legacy programme from the last Government and had to deal with a significant backlog of cases, some of which related to people who have lived here for many years. Their cases had simply not been tackled with the right and proper degree of speediness. As the chief executive of the UK Border Agency confirmed to the Home Affairs Select Committee, we aim to finish that legacy programme by next summer. Looking to the future, we need to ensure that we do not get into the situation again of allowing people to come here and making them wait many years for an answer from the Government as to whether or not they can stay. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 180 Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): It is a disgrace that last year 1,600 visas were granted to people who wanted to work in care homes when there are 33,000 care workers claiming jobseeker's allowance. Does my right hon. Friend agree that this is a kick in the teeth for those unemployed care workers, proving that her proposals are exactly the right policy to introduce? Mrs May: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend that this is the right policy for us to introduce. Many people, not just care workers, are unemployed, yet they have to see care workers being brought in from overseas. Of the many graduates in the UK, one in 10 are unemployed six months after their graduation. Last year, however, I believe that 38,000 overseas students stayed here after their graduation to work in the UK. We need to deal with that and we also need to ensure that we get the skills training right for people in the UK. The action we have taken on immigration today is not just an indictment of the last Labour Government's failure to do something about the problem, but is also a very sad commentary on their failure to deliver a proper skills agenda for the UK. Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): May I press the Home Secretary on the issue of language courses? I am thinking particularly of Sheffield International college in my constituency. With its 1,000 students, it plays an important role in the local economy and as a feeder institution helping students to proceed on to our two universities. All that makes an enormous economic contribution. Mrs May: I thank the hon. Gentleman for echoing the importance of this issue, which was also raised by the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion and by my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd). As I said, I am happy to meet a group of MPs to discuss English language schools. We know how important that issue is and we are looking to address it through consultation. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): May I congratulate my right hon. Friend on her statement and tell her that my constituents will welcome the move away from expressing rhetoric about British jobs for British workers towards taking substantive action? Nevertheless, many people in Harlow will be concerned that their jobs are being given away, particularly by big companies like the major supermarkets, to temporary migrant workers. Will my right hon. Friend set out how her measures will help this situation? Mrs May: I believe that our measures will help because they will tighten up the provisions to ensure that the people who come into this country under either tier 1 or tier 2 are the skilled workers that companies need, not those coming here to do low-skill jobs. We will also tighten up on the intra-company transfers route through the salary threshold so that that route is available, as it was always intended to be, for senior managers and people with specialist skills rather than for people doing low-skill jobs. Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op): May I concur with what has already been said about the position facing English language schools? It 23 Nov 2010 : Column 181 is a difficult position and it needs to be addressed urgently. This country is already losing custom as it goes to other countries-we are not the only country where English is spoken-so I urge the Home Secretary to do something about the problem quickly. Otherwise, areas like mine, where English language schools contribute significantly to the local economy, will suffer. Mrs May: There may be other hon. Members who wish to raise the issue of English language schools from their constituency viewpoint. Let me say to the hon. Gentleman, as I have to others, that we are well aware of this issue and we are looking to address it as we deal with student visas. Although many English language schools offer a very good product and are of significant economic benefit to the UK, I also need to point out that this sector of the economy is not completely free from abuse. Sadly, some schools do damage to others by setting themselves up as English language schools and then not offering the right services. Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): I welcome my right hon. Friend's statement, but does she agree that as well as controlling immigration, we should do more to ensure that those who settle here and integrate with us respect our culture, traditions and values, and make greater efforts to learn our language? Mrs May: I think it is important for people who come to live here in the United Kingdom to be able to participate in society. That is why next week we are introducing an English language test for those who wish to come here to join a spousal partner. I think it only sensible for someone who is coming to live here to be able to speak English, and thence to participate in society. Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op): I welcome the statement in general terms, but I do not believe that it goes far enough. There is still uncontrolled migration from the European Union, certainly to my constituency, into which have come a substantial number of unskilled and semi-skilled European workers who are undercutting the unemployed work force. What steps will the Home Secretary take to ensure that some curbs are placed on those people? Mrs May: I hear what the hon. Gentleman says. He has a record of having taken a rather different view from the Front Bench Members of his party when it was in government. As I have made clear and as the figures show, the vast majority of net migration is from outside the European Union. The flows into and out of the country of British and EU citizens balance out, and have done so for the past few years. As for the future, the Government have made it absolutely clear that if there are any new member states, we will exercise transitional controls. Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend recognise that many British workers in the IT industry are very concerned about losing their jobs as a result of intra-company transfers? 23 Nov 2010 : Column 182 Can she reassure them that she will crack down on the abuse of the system that has been witnessed by some IT companies? Mrs May: As I said in my statement and have said in response to a number of questions, we are tightening the rules relating to tier 2 entry to the United Kingdom, as well as those relating to intra-company transfers. We will ensure that those who come here really are the skilled and highly skilled workers who are needed. However, my hon. Friend's point echoes one made by a number of other Members about the need to ensure that businesses in the United Kingdom seek the skills that are available here. Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I should hate to misrepresent the Home Secretary. To avoid confusion, will she tell us whether she will reduce net migration to tens of thousands by 2015-or has she just dropped the Government's specific commitment to that date? Mrs May: We have been absolutely clear about our aim in regard to net migration, and we made it absolutely clear in the coalition agreement that we were committed to introducing an annual limit on non-EU economic migration. That is what we are doing today. [Interruption.] Mr Speaker: I call Paul Uppal. [Interruption.] Order. I am quite worried about Opposition Front Benchers. They are in a state of quite extraordinary excitement, but I want to hear Mr Uppal. Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): Thank you, Mr Speaker. Immigration cases take up most of the case load at my weekly surgery, particularly during the summer months, when the wedding season and many other family occasions take place. Will the Home Secretary and the Minister for Immigration, my hon. Friend the Member for Ashford (Damian Green), consider pinning down responsibility for sponsorship when people come here to visit their families on such occasions? That would tackle head-on the problem of absconding, fraud and overstaying. The last Labour Government examined the matter when immigration was an issue, but they ducked it and chose not to do anything about it. Mrs May: My hon. Friend has made an interesting suggestion. When we consider the issue of family visas, we will be happy to accept representations from him on that and any other ideas that he may have. Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Will the Home Secretary say more about how she believes that the needs of particular sectors of the economy, and the pressures on them, can be properly respected and responded to within the new annual limits? Is a regional dimension built into any of the Government's proposals? We know that before the election the Liberal Democrats spoke of huge regional issues relating to immigration. Does the new regime take any account of the needs of, and the pressures on, particular regions? Mrs May: The proposals I am setting out today apply to immigration policy across the United Kingdom. To respond to the hon. Gentleman's first point, I am confident 23 Nov 2010 : Column 183 that the needs of particular sectors will be met through our changes to tier 1, tier 2 and the intra-company transfer route. We have listened very carefully to business, and the CBI recently said it thought that "a workable...solution would encompass...protection of sponsored work permit numbers as a priority ahead of those without a job offer", which we have done. The CBI also said that by "prioritising the demand-led part of the system-Tier 2-in this manner the government will be able to deliver on its goal of reducing net migration without damaging business", which, again, is exactly what we have done. Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): I welcome the statement. Does the Home Secretary agree that the UK economy's dependence on skilled labour from abroad highlights two of the starkest failures under the last Government: the promotion of welfare dependency, and the failure to improve skills and training? Mrs May: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and it is important that we see the policies announced in the statement in the context of our welfare reform policy, the Work programme to be brought in next year, and the Business Secretary's proposed skills agenda, which he introduced in a White Paper last week. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): During last Thursday's immigration debate, the Home Secretary's departmental colleague, the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire), said: "We therefore aim to reduce net migration to the levels of the 1990s-tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands, each year by the end of this Parliament."-[ Official Report, 18 November 2010; Vol. 518, c. 1120.] The end of this Parliament will, of course, be in 2015. May I offer the Home Secretary another opportunity to confirm categorically that that is still her Government's policy this week? Mrs May: I say to the hon. Lady that it is the position- [Interruption.] Listen very carefully. I will say this only once: we aim to reduce net migration from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands by the end of this Parliament. Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): Returning to the issue of student visas, we have quite a few boarding schools in West Worcestershire, such as Malvern college, St Michael's college in Tenbury Wells and Malvern St James college, which attract students from all around the world. They are highly trusted sponsors, but they are already finding that the system is slowing them down. Can the Home Secretary reassure these colleges that the process will become faster? Mrs May: I am happy to give my hon. Friend that reassurance. While we are consulting on focusing the student visa route on universities, further education colleges and degree level courses, highly trusted sponsors will be able to offer courses at below degree level, and I would expect that the schools to which my hon. Friend has referred would be able to continue to offer courses because, as she says, they are highly trusted sponsors. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 184 Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Two months ago, UK executives at Toyota told me of the benefits for their company and the wider British economy of the transfer of knowledge and skills through intra-company transfers. Will the Home Secretary publish the economic analysis that I am sure she has performed of the impact on growth and output of restricting intra-company transfers of longer than 12 months to those on salaries of more £40,000? Mrs May: I gave some figures in my statement, and I am also happy to be able to say to the hon. Gentleman that the Minister for Immigration met representatives from Toyota to discuss their particular needs, and I understand that they were comfortable with our proposals. Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con): I congratulate the Home Secretary on having the grit and determination to introduce this important proposal. She rightly pointed out the kinds of abuse we saw under the previous Government in respect of programmes such as the student visa scheme, which meant that many people were here who should not have been. What measures are her Department taking to ensure that those who are here illegally are removed-and removed quickly? Mrs May: We are considering the measures that could be taken against those colleges or so-called colleges that just enable students to come here to work and then stay on, rather than be removed. As I said in answer to a number of other hon. Members who raised this or similar issues, this Government are committed to strengthening our borders through the border police command within the national crime agency. Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): I welcome the Home Secretary's statement. I just hope that the consultations do not take too long and that the whole House will have an opportunity to debate all these issues in detail, probably with an immigration Bill. Given the rampant abuse of tourist, student, work and family visas, is it not time that an incentive is provided for those tempted to overstay or those who have overstayed by saying that they can return to their country of origin voluntarily or be barred from re-entering this country for at least 20 years? That would be an incentive that would work. Mrs May: I think I will take that as my hon. Friend's contribution to our consultation exercise on student visas. Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): I congratulate the Home Secretary on this statement. The shadow Home Secretary has apparently admitted in the media that the Labour party, when in government, made a mistake in 2004 by not applying transitional controls to enlargement of the European Union then. Ed Balls indicated assent. Michael Ellis: I see the right hon. Gentleman nodding. Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that such transitional controls will be applied to any further enlargements of the European Union? 23 Nov 2010 : Column 185 Mrs May: I am very happy to give my hon. Friend that commitment on any future new member states entering the European Union. I am fascinated that the shadow Home Secretary stood up in response to my statement and claimed that the previous Government had introduced all these transitional controls, yet now we hear that he says they made a mistake in not doing this properly. Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend's statement, which will go a long way towards assuaging the concerns of my constituents. They are not so worried about business people being here for two or three years; they are worried about the permanent settlement that automatically seems to be granted when someone has lived here for four years. Can she give further assurances about the criminality aspect, because that is another great concern in my constituency? Mrs May: We are indeed looking at the criminality criteria for entering in order to tighten them up; we want to look at people's records when considering who can enter the UK. We think that that is an important element that we should be looking at, and I know that the issue has concerned a number of people. Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): Has the Home Secretary made an estimate of the number of sham marriages, particularly those to EU migrants to the UK? What further measures will she take to deter this and punish those responsible? Mrs May: I do not have an estimate of the number of sham marriages, but I am happy to say to my hon. 23 Nov 2010 : Column 186 Friend that the UK Border Agency was very active in stopping sham marriages over the summer; we had a very big crackdown on them. Many people were concerned and surprised to see that a Church of England vicar was caught and arrested for helping sham marriages to take place. Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): Last and most certainly least, I welcome my right hon. Friend's statement. Does she agree that, although the large-scale import of cheap labour may keep the lid on wage price inflation, it also keeps a lid on productivity because business men who feel that they can import cheap labour are less incentivised to be productive? Does she agree that that is not a competitive model and that the Government should not turn a blind eye to businesses that try to import cheap labour? Mrs May: I have said in some of my conversations with businesses that it is important that they look to ensure that they encourage and provide the training for skills growth and development here in the UK. That is important, as it is in the UK's interests, the individual's interests and the interests of those businesses. Mr Speaker: I must thank the Home Secretary and colleagues for their co-operation, as a result of which in 40 minutes of Back-Bench time we managed to get through 44 Back-Bench questions and answers. It shows what can be done when we put our minds to it. Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): Excellent chairing. Mr Speaker: Well, I am always grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his unfailing support and I heard what he said. __________________________________________________________________ Next Section Index Home Page * A-Z index * Glossary * Contact us * Freedom of Information * Jobs * Using this website * Copyright Home * Press * Need Advice? * Follow our work Migrants' Rights Network (MRN) [search.gif] Search this Sit Go Skip to Navigation Check out other blogs Blog Labour conference 2013: Still searching for the big idea on immigration Compel employers of migrant labour to take on apprentices? Excuse us Ed, but they are already doing that. If you are looking for innovative proposals on immigration there are plenty of better options... September 23, 2013 BY Don Flynn Explore More * budget cuts * economic migration * economy * immigration cap * Labour Party * Points Based System * Share/Save Tweet Ed Miliband's trailed some of the themes he wants to see at the forefront of the Labour Party conference this week on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday morning. Immigration was in this pack of issues, with the Labour leader promising: In our first year in office we will legislate for an immigration bill which will secure control of our borders, cracks down on exploitation of workers coming here undercutting workers already here, and say to big companies that bring in people from outside the EU that they can do that, within a cap, but they have got to train the next generation. There are elements in this statement which maintain the tack of previous sketches of what Miliband wants from immigration namely, namely a suite of measures to tackle labour exploitation married to the concession to right wing critics that Labour let in too many immigrants when it was running the government. Ed miliband on the Andrew Marr show speaking about immigration To date this latter component has been limited to the agreement that transitional controls on the admission of citizens of the newly acceding EU countries to the UK labour market should have been maintained back in 2004. The arrival of much larger than anticipated numbers of people from the 'A8' states was evidence of a one-off error that would not be repeated in the future. But there is a hint that the Labour leader plans to push this point further by conceding the argument of the Conservative wing of the coalition government that immigration needs to be managed with a formal cap on immigration numbers. Labour's dilemma Labour's problem is that caps on immigration score highly on public opinion ratings irrespective of the evidence on whether or not they actually work. This doesn't seem to be a problem for the Conservatives, who are the beneficiaries of a peculiar, widespread mood, which shows strong approval for tough talk on immigration combined with low expectation that anything significant will actually be achieved in the way of pushing down numbers. What must seem grossly unfair to Miliband and his Labour colleagues is that while voters aren't particularly inclined to want to punish Conservatives for advancing unworkable immigration policies, they come down on the party of the left like a ton of bricks. Because of this Labour is now having to try harder to come up with concrete ideas on stronger controls on immigration which stand a better chance of showing the sort of progress towards lower rates of incomers. The latest contender seems to be the suggestion that employers taking on migrant workers under the arrangements of the points-based system (PBS) will also have to admit apprentices from the resident labour force. This has already provoked a strongly adverse reaction from employer organisations who have been quick to denounce it as more red tape encumbering enterprise and business. But the more fundamental point is that it is likely to be a measure that the type of business interests that engage migrants under the PBS will find easy to meet. The fact is that PBS employers are already heavily vetted by Home Office officials to ensure that they are worthy of holding sponsor licenses for migrant workers. They are likely to be amongst the firms that can show they are already operating training schemes for young people just out of school or university. We should expect that the human resource departments of these firms would not be too challenged to show that each new migrant worker admitted will be properly matched by the young people they take on under these schemes. Better options All the signs are that this latest initiative from Labour, seemingly attractive as the outline of an idea, will slump when it comes to demonstrating that it has led to a net increase in apprenticeships and training. Like the Grand Old Duke of York, Labour will have done not much more than march public expectations up to the top of the hill, only to bring them right back down again at a smart place. Which is a shame and yet another example of lost opportunities to do something really radical in the way of immigration policy which really does relate to public moods for strengthening of democracy in the realm of economic planning. We've been arguing that real scope for initiative lies in building up the capacity of local and regional authorities to shape the sort of immigration policies they need to promote growth in their areas. It's an idea that ought to be relevant to the Labour policymakers and has a decent chance of being both popular and effective – so why is there no one in the leadership of the party bold enough to take it up? Other users went on to read: __________________________________________________________________ New Year Greetings to All, and a hearty welcome to our EU2 friends and their new rights to employment! January 1, 2014 Seasons Greetings to all, and here's my 2013 in immigration books...... December 23, 2013 Conservative MPs slug it out at ‘rag, tag, and bobtail’ Westminster Hall debate December 20, 2013 Comments Don Flynn says: September 23, 2013 Labour's immigration shadow minister, Chris Bryant, is tweeting that the proposal will produce 100,000 apprenticeships. The only way I can seem them getting close to this figure is if they include inter-company transfers and migrants on short-term contracts - less than one year - in the total. Even so this only gets us into the region of 75,000 apprenticehips. I've asked him whether these employers will be able to offset people on existing apprenticeship and training schemes against the new immigrants being sponsored. If this is the case the number of new apprenticeships being created will be lower, probably by a considerable margin, than the hoped for 100,000. If he replies on that point I'll let you know. Anonymous says: September 23, 2013 Immigration bills will only ever look at percieved symptoms of an immigration problem. Increasing infrastructure to deal with whatever measures are put in place to control the numbers of people coming into the country will cost more and almost inevitably fail to deliver justice to anyone. Labour should be asking themselves - why do people come to the UK? Almost universally, the answer is to have a better life for economic, social, political or religious reasons. It may sound radical, but the only way to address the impact of globalisation - including fragmentation of communities due to increased mobility - is to reduce inequality both nationally and internationally. The first things that the government should do is introduce a living wage, ban zero hour contracts, enforce limits on hours worked each week and ensure that anyone living in the UK who wants to integrate by learning English is able to do so. Why will this help challenge anti-immigration sentiment? Because instead of having working conditions constantly undermined by people unable to demand better for themselves - employers will be paying a realistic wage for work no matter who they hire. If given the choice of paying the same to employ someone with local connections and native english as they do for vulnerable workers with limited english - employers would make the decision to hire the person more able to integrate. As long as working people still live in poverty, these issues will persist. If it's not the immigrants who get the blame, it's the working class or the disabled. The second things the government needs to seriously consider is how complicit the British economy is in maintaining inequality on a global level. Wealth cannot be concentrated in the way that it is without people gravitating towards it. That is not to say that the majority of people should give up much of their hard-earned comforts, rather it is that the very wealthy individuals and corporations are so greedy that they don't leave enough to go around. Things like closing tax loopholes, the 50p tax, the Robin Hood Tax, etc. are all essential to start the process of challenging inequality. Still it will never be enough, because it is not illegal accumulate so much wealth it forces others to choose between a roof, food or heating. The Labour government should step back and realise that until profitable companies are *forced* to ensure that workers get a realistic piece of the pie they helped to produce - no amount of red tape or rhetoric is going to fix the system. If David Cameron can say that finance executives should be accountable for the massive bonuses they give themselves and that public sector chiefs shouldn't earn embarassingly more than their lowest paid workers - why on earth can't Labour. Graham Hughes says: September 23, 2013 The idea of making employers take on apprentices if they employ people from overseas seems bizarre. Apart from the bureaucracy needed to link these two disparate things, what happens for employers who have businesses where apprenticeships aren't a recognised or relevant means of entry into the workforce? Will a private hospital recruiting ,say, a surgeon from overseas have to start a school leaver as an apprentice surgeon or a bus company employing drivers from other countries have to take on apprentice drivers who won't be old enough to hold the relevant licence? It seems to me that Labour are taking two populists concepts that immigration is bad and apprenticeships are good and trying to use one to offset the negative perception their party has with the other. They would be far better to just get on and make a positive case for the immigration policies they believe are right instead of trying to get easy votes by silly ideas that people will surely see through. whatever one thinks of immigration and apprenticeships this idea doesn't have the appearance of something emanating from a party with a good grasp of how to deal with issues facing the country. It is strange that Labour allows the right to dictate the terms of the immigration debate. Indicative of this is the way so many on the right condemn Labour's record on immigration and call for us to have an immigration policy like Australia, yet Labour introduced the points based immigration system based directly on the Australian model, Rather than press this point Labour concedes the ground that their immigration policy was flawed. Anonymous says: September 27, 2013 You forgot to mention it only applies to companies that have 50 employees or more. Emmy says: October 9, 2013 Immigration to any country is not easy now a day. Now a days everyone look to settle down in good growing country which can cause of over population. Post new comment Your name: * Anonymous_____________________ E-mail: * ______________________________ The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly. 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Save * Home * About * Blog * News & Events * Publications * Migration Pulse Don Flynn Director Don Flynn, the MRN Director, leads the organisation's strategic development and coordinates MRN's policy and project work. He is a regular and sought-after speaker at conferences, seminars and lectures on behalf of MRN. Don founded MRN after many years experience of working with migrant community organisations through his previous roles as policy advisor and immigration caseworker in London. He also chairs the UK Race and Europe Network (UKREN) and the Platform for International Cooperation on Undocumented Migrants (PICUM). SUPPORT MIGRANTS RIGHTS * (*) £10 * ( ) £20 * ( ) £50 * or choose your own amount £ ____________________ I would like to make a: (*) One-off ( ) Monthly donation Donate Donate Blog house rules Like other blogs we have our house rules. 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Email: * ____________________ Country: * ____________________ (*) Subscribe ( ) Unsubscribe Save User login Email: * _______________ Password: * _______________ Log in * Create new account * Request new password Return to: Blogs | The Staggers [blog-staggers-144-144.jpg] The Staggers The New Statesman’s rolling politics blog Syndicate content RSS Yvette Cooper's speech on immigration: full text The shadow home secretary says Labour will not enter an "arms race of rhetoric on immigration" and promises "a fair, controlled system". By Yvette Cooper Published 07 March 2013 11:33 * * * StumbleUpon * Reddit * Print HTML * Facebook Like * Google Plus One * Tweet Widget Shadow home secretary says Labour will not enter an "arms race" on immigration. Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper delivered her speech on immigration at the IPPR this morning. Photograph: Getty Images. Thank you to IPPR for welcoming us today. For too long immigration has been one of those difficult subjects politicians don’t talk about, and the public worry about. Yet it is too important to our economy, our society and our future not to discuss. Some say for Labour to discuss immigration is to move to the right. Not so. In fact the free market liberal right wing approach has often been to promote wide open borders – in the interests of free markets, trade, and flexible, cheap labour. Meanwhile the conservative right wing approach is to close the borders completely, with all outsiders kept out. Neither of those right wing extremes will ever work for Britain, or ever be accepted by Labour. We know we need a sensible balanced approach. It is because immigration is important that it needs to be properly controlled. It is because immigration needs public support that the impact must be properly managed so it is fair for all. And yes, we need a serious debate about how to get that right. Britain has benefited over many centuries from the amazing contributions of immigrants welcomed to our shores. New ideas, new talents and hard work from abroad have helped build our biggest companies, sustain our NHS, keep our public transport moving, win us Nobel prizes and expand our science base. Britain has always been a safe haven for people fleeing violence and persecution – and must continue to be so. Last summer the entire nation gathered behind Team GB. A third of the team had parents or grandparents who came from abroad to make Britain their home. And we celebrated the strong, diverse and outward looking culture we showed off to the world. For the future, immigration is likely to be even more important. Our top companies, our universities, and even our football teams and the Bank of England are competing in a global marketplace – dependent on recruiting the best international talent. People are trading and travelling more than ever before. When my grandfather moved from Yorkshire to Lancashire in the 40s it would have been seen as a radical thing to do. Yet when his youngest grandson got married recently in America relatives gathered from three different continents to celebrate. Millions of British jobs dependent on imports and exports, immigration has helped boost jobs and growth, and we know our children need to know about the world beyond our borders. So we know that Britain cannot – and must not – pull up the drawbridge on the outside world. But we also know that immigration needs to work for all. And right now most people in Britain think it doesn’t. Mass migration can create stresses and strains – making it harder for people to put down roots or build communities, and when resources are tight creating economic and political tensions too. Closing the door doesn’t work. But nor does having no controls at all. The pace and scale of immigration matter. Controls matter, so does the kind of migration and the rules to keep things fair. The impact of immigration matters. Immigration has to be managed so it works in the interests of Britain, and in the interests of working people. Under Ed Miliband’s leadership we’ve been holding events across the country - listening and talking about immigration in Britain. North and South, city and town. First and second generation migrants as well as families who have been in Britain for generations. Along with Shadow Immigration Minister Chris Bryant, I’ve heard from people worried about whether their children will find jobs and whether they can compete with new arrivals from abroad. We’ve heard from people who have seen rapid change in their communities worried they don’t know their neighbours any more. And we’ve also heard from people worried about jobs being lost at the local university because fewer international students have come. We’ve heard from people with many concerns about the way the immigration system works – and we need to talk about those problems. As Ed Miliband has said we know Labour got some things wrong on immigration in Government. We did tackle many of the serious problems in the asylum system we inherited after 1997. We also brought in stronger border checks. But we should have been quicker to bring in the Australian style points based system. We should have kept transitional controls for Eastern Europe. And we should have looked more at the impact, and been ready to talk about problems. So we know that needs to change. We will support the Government where it introduces sensible policies. And we will point out where they are getting things wrong. But we won’t enter an arms race of rhetoric on immigration – and we hope the Prime Minister won’t either. That’s not honest, or good for Britain. Instead we need a serious debate about the benefits and challenges from immigration, and about the practical measures needed to tackle the problems. That is why I want to focus on three key areas where we can set out practical reforms today; - On tackling the unequal impact of immigration - On controls and limits - On proper enforcement and effectiveness And then I want to talk about the most complex challenge – reforms that are needed to make sure the immigration system works in a fairer way for European migration too. But let me first say something more about the importance of managing immigration for our communities, and the important speech Ed Miliband made on this before Christmas. Making immigration work for everyone means making sure we can come together as a country whatever our backgrounds, whatever our family history, race or religion, just as we did through the Olympics. It means making sure that people can come together in local communities, building common bonds, sharing British values, not living segregated lives. As Ed made clear that doesn’t mean assimilation – we are proud of Britain’s diversity. But it does mean greater integration. Locally that means fostering and building a shared community, where people don’t just tolerate each other, but build friendships, families and businesses. The modern history of Britain is the triumph of friendships across cultures and ethnicities over racism and prejudice. There are still challenges of course, but it is that sense of friendship and community that we believe we must continue to build. But none of that is possible if we don’t speak a common language. That is why we support stronger language requirements on people coming to this country and stronger requirements to learn and speak English if people are here. Better to teach people English than focus only on translation or interpreters. And we believe there should be stronger English language requirements on people who want to work in public services too. And it is why we believe in developing an integration strategy – rooted in a sense of “shared citizenship,” and in communities, housing and the workplace. It’s also why we expect people who are welcomed into Britain to work hard, obey the law, contribute to our economy and society. That’s what most people coming to this country want to do. And it is right to have clear rules and responsibilities to make sure that happens as I will set out later on. And it is because we believe in developing a One Nation approach to immigration around shared values that we also need to look at the impact of immigration, the pace of change and how we ensure the rules are followed. So we need action to tackle the unequal impact of immigration on Britain. Overall migration has created jobs, increased the growth in our economy and filled vacancies where skills were short. But some of those in low paid work have seen downward pressure on wages. We’ve heard cases of some employers getting round the minimum wage by providing over priced, over crowded accommodation to migrant workers. We’ve heard of migrant workers left to sleep in barns, or crammed into caravans. Or factories that only recruit through agencies, and agencies that only use foreign staff, so local workers find it hard to get in. It’s not fair on migrant workers who are being exploited because of their desperation to find work. It’s not fair on other employers who are playing by the rules. And it’s not fair on local people who want a job with fair pay so they can support their families too. Yet the Government is doing nothing to tackle this abuse, or deliver a fairer deal. There hasn’t been a single prosecution for failing to pay the minimum wage in the last two years. Even when employers are caught abusing the system the penalties are too often pathetic. Last month 15 UK dairy farms were found guilty of using illegal labourers hired through gangmasters. The workers were housed in disgraceful accommodation previously used for animals, and paid £400-£500 less than the minimum wage each month. Yet for that abuse, they were fined only £300 each – less than they saved in a month on every illegal worker they exploited. Many of the companies actively recruiting from abroad also fail to provide training or apprenticeships here at home. So we need to act. Ed Miliband has already called for action against agencies that use only foreign workers, and stronger enforcement of the minimum wage. And we should go further. • We need stronger penalties for abuse. We should start by doubling the fines for breaching the minimum wage or the rules under Gangmasters legislation. • Enforcement must be stronger too. Local councils should be given the power to take enforcement action over the minimum wage and we should look at extending the Gangmasters Licencing Authority to other sectors where abuse is taking place. • We need to stop rogue landlords exploiting migrant workers with overcrowded, overpriced accommodation that is also bad for local communities and leads to undercutting of local workers too – the Government should sign up now to our proposals for a register for private sector landlords. • We should also change the Minimum Wage regulations to stop the employers providing overcrowded accommodation and offsetting it against workers pay. And of course we should also be targeting those sectors with high levels of foreign recruitment for training and apprenticeships so local workers – particularly the young unemployed - can get jobs. Before the last election we had in place programmes like Care First to help young people get training and jobs in the care sector and other sectors with high levels of vacancies. But those programmes have been cut and nothing put in their place. We need serious targeted action with Job Centres, colleges, training bodies and employers to train up local people to get those jobs, and a responsibility on the unemployed to take them up. But it isn’t enough to address the impact. The pace of immigration matters for communities and the labour market. And the kinds of immigration matter too. So controls and limits are important. Labour has recognised we should have had transitional controls in place for Eastern Europe. And we were slow to bring in the Australian style points based system. As a result immigration – and particularly low skilled immigration – was too high, and it is right to bring it down. Where the Government is introducing sensible controls we support them, but their approach is too simplistic and they risk focussing on the wrong things. Our points based system started to reduce low skilled migration from outside Europe. We supported the Coalition decision to stop high skilled workers coming to do low skilled jobs. And we supported action to close bogus colleges and stop people pretending to be students but seeking low skilled work instead. We recognise the cap on tier 2 workers itself has not so far caused the problems some businesses feared, though the implementation of it and the long delays in getting visas have caused difficulties. For example we know that it now takes twice as long for businesses to get work visas – increasing the costs they face. So we will continue to monitor it and hear the views from business on what amendments are needed for example to speed things up. But as Ed Miliband said last year, if the evidence shows it would not cause problems for our economy, we will maintain the cap. But the Government’s overall approach to targets is too simplistic – and changes are needed. David Cameron promised to reduce “net migration” to the tens of thousands by the election, and that has become the top priority of the Home Office now. Yet the drop in net migration so far is not what it seems. Astonishingly two thirds of the drop in net migration is actually British citizens. And it seems a large proportion of the rest is students. Net migration has gone down by 72,000 since the election. Yet that includes a 27,000 increase in Brits leaving the country. And a 20,000 drop in the number of Brits coming back home. Meanwhile student immigration dropped by 38,000. Yet foreign students bring in investment and jobs to our country – a total of £8bn a year. And few think the answer to Britain’s immigration challenges is to persuade more Brits to go away. “Net migration” measures the difference between certain categories of immigration and emigration and the way they have set the target means they are often focussing on the wrong things. Everything that is included in the “net migration” measure is treated as the same, while the Government tries to bring it down. Everything excluded from the “net migration” measure is being ignored – even if it causes serious problems. For example legitimate University students are included in the target even though they bring billions into Britain – and those are being squeezed Yet student visitor visas aren’t included – and growing abuse in that category is being ignored. Highly skilled global experts and investors are included – so the Home Office has no interest in sorting the visa delays that prevent them from coming. Yet illegal immigration isn’t included – and all the evidence shows the Home Office is not taking it seriously and the problem is getting worse. There needs to be a mature recognition that there are different kinds of immigration – immigration that works and immigration that doesn’t both for the immigrant and the country. And immigration controls need to reflect that. We need stronger action against illegal immigration, and stronger checks on short term student visitor visas but legitimate higher education students should not be targeted in Government action to bring immigration down. Ministers should be working with Universities and local councils to make sure we can sustain more high skilled graduate students from fast growing economies like China and Brazil – bringing in the international investment that supports jobs and subsidises British students, and bringing the international cultural and trading contacts that will serve us well for the longterm. But stronger checks are needed on shorter term student visitor visas. There is no minimum level of course for the student and it does not need to lead to a qualification. There are no academic requirements for getting the visa. Applicants don’t have to provide evidence of funds to support themselves nor proof of study at a college. No one checks if they study. No one checks if they overstay. And these visas have gone up by 30,000 a year since the election. The Borders Inspector has already warned this route is open to abuse for those who are coming not to study but for low skilled work instead. Yet because “student visitors” aren’t included in the “net migration” target, the Home Office doesn’t appear to care. We also need much stronger action to cut illegal immigration as a priority. The system isn’t working at the moment and it has got significantly worse since the election: • The number of people refused entry has dropped by 50% • The number of people absconding through Heathrow passport control has trebled – the number caught has halved • The backlog in finding failed asylum seekers has gone up • The number of illegal immigrants deported has gone down • The number of foreign prisoners removed has gone down • The number of businesses fined for employing illegal workers has gone down • 150,000 reports of potential bogus students not followed up by UKBA • Finger print checks on illegal migrants caught at Calais have been stopped • Basic security checks on missing asylum seekers dropped • Cuts in security in the Bordersgate debacle – we still don’t know how many illegal immigrants got through • UKBA has little idea who is still in the country and who has left • And the e-borders technology to count people in and out at the borders has been delayed This is a growing catalogue of failure. Yet illegal immigration is deeply damaging. It’s not fair on the people brought here illegally, often promised a life which in reality does not exist. People are sold a dream only to exist in destitution. illegal migration has seen increasing numbers of gangs trafficking young girls into sexual slavery. For legitimate migrants who have followed all the rules illegal migration is unfair. And for the citizens of our country, illegal immigration is what angers them most – the idea that people are abusing the system. So we need much stronger action from Government to bring illegal immigration down. And here’s a series of practical steps the Government could take. We need faster, stronger enforcement when illegal immigrants are found in workplaces, colleges and transport hubs. UKBA inspections should target employers and colleges unannounced. UKBA compliance officers who inspect premises should be given the power of arrest so they can act swiftly when they discover problems – rather than just promising to return with a warranted officer tomorrow and giving people time to abscond. UKBA officers should have proper training in identifying and responding to women and children victims of child trafficking who need help. The Government should be developing proper exit checks so people can be counted in and out at the border. We need a system where UKBA can track who has entered or left the country, with swifter action when people overstay. And whilst illegal immigration has got easier, legitimate legal migration has become subject to damaging delays. Businesses report long delays trying to get visas for international appointments. The wait for a tier 2 work visa is up from 36 days to 56 days. The delays for high value investors and entrepreneurs have gone up from 30 days to 86 days. Families report long delays getting visitor visas for relatives to come to weddings (or funerals) they end up missing. And even though a high proportion of initial decisions are wrong for bureaucratic reasons, the Government is now trying to abolish appeals. Couples report being forced to live apart even while their baby is born because of the scale of delays in spouse visas. Asylum seekers are waiting for years for a decision and the delays are increasing – leaving genuine refugees in limbo and making it harder to send failed cases home. Tourists report long delays either at our passport checks – or trying to get visitor visas in the first place. Chinese tourists who bring in major investment are giving up and visiting other European countries instead. The system just isn’t working and it is getting worse. The Home Office doesn’t seem to see this as a priority. Yet the damage to Britain, and the costs to the economy and the tax payer are considerable. A proper action plan is needed to tackle these delays and failings, based on the practical recommendations from the Borders Inspectorate reports. All these things can make a practical difference; - stronger action to tackle the unfair impact, and build common bonds - strong, fair controls, reflecting different kinds of immigration - Proper enforcement and a more effective system But we have to recognise that managing migration is more challenging when it comes to Europe. And reforms are needed here too. One million British people are living and working in other EU countries. And just over 2 million nationals of other EU countries are estimated to be living here. Most are working hard and contributing to our economy and society. They pay their taxes and support the jobs that keep British citizens in work too. But European migration is also the issue that creates greatest public concern right now because there are fewer controls, and because so much has changed so quickly. The pace of migration from the A8 countries was much faster than we expected. People are worrying about the impact of Bulgarian and Romanian migration from next January. There are five important lessons we should learn from A8 migration – and changes we should make before next year. For a start it is right to have full transitional controls. It makes a difference if all countries are doing the same things too - since other countries lifted their transitional controls on the A8 countries, the level of migration into Britain has fallen by 35%. Labour will ensure maximum transitional controls for any future countries joining the EU. Second, we need tighter enforcement of labour market rules to avoid exploitation and prevent undercutting. That includes all the changes we are arguing for to toughen up enforcement of the minimum wage, crackdown on rogue landlords, and abuse by recruitment Agencies. Third, they should be targeting those sectors who are already recruiting low skilled workers from abroad and insisting they do more to train local staff – especially young people. They should set up targeted training programmes with these sectors this year to help the young unemployed into those jobs. Fourth, Ministers should take sensible action around the benefit system and services. Most people who come to Britain from Europe work hard and contribute more in taxes than they use in public services or claim in benefits. But the system needs to be seen to be fair. Giving people the right to work in other countries is not about people travelling and getting support from other countries if they don’t plan to contribute. So the Government is right to look at this area. But so far they have come up with no specific practical proposals and are engaged in a frenzy of briefing and rhetoric instead. The habitual residence test works in the vast majority of cases, but one practical change within existing European rules would be to add a “presence test” to the habitual residence test to make it clear and to clarify for everyone that Jobseekers Allowance cannot be claimed within a few days or weeks, and that people will be expected to be in the country for some time or to contribute before they get something back. That could be done swiftly. We should also start discussions with Europe over reforming the long standing provision stretching back many decades which requires family benefits to be paid even if the family members live abroad. It is currently set out in EC Regulation 883/2004. This causes significant unfairness. If someone moves from Newcastle to London for work and leaves their children behind they cannot claim child tax credit. But if someone moves to London leaving their children in Paris or Prague instead they can claim child tax credit and send it home. That’s not fair. Most people feel the support we provide for children growing up as part of our country shouldn’t be paid to those living in a different country instead. The Government should be building an alliance across Europe to get that regulation changed. Fifth, we need proper co-operation with other European countries to make sure that migration is not abused. The new Schengen Information System will share information on migrants travelling within the EU. It will guarantee the authenticity of documents and help identify illegal residents. But so far the Home Secretary is refusing to sign up. Instead, this Government is trying to opt out of all police and crime cooperation in the EU. That would mean no data sharing, no coordinated action on serious and organised crime, and no use of the European Arrest Warrant – potentially making the UK a haven for other EU member states’ organised criminals. Each of these things could be started now. And should be. But we also need to argue for longer term reforms of the EU. Some on the Tory right simply want us to withdraw from Europe and pull up the drawbridge on European migration too. But the consequences for British jobs and investment would be huge. British citizens are among the most likely in Europe to take advantage of the freedom to travel, trade and work across borders. An estimated one million live elsewhere in Europe. Only Poland and Italy have more of their citizens currently living and working abroad. However reforms are needed. Allowing citizens of member states to work anywhere in Europe has been part of the single market since it started. However, the framework that surrounds that right to work was drawn up for a smaller, more homogenous Europe and is now out of date. Douglas Alexander has already proposed that we should look again at a different approach to migration and transitional controls for future countries joining the EU. We should look again at the framework to make sure workers are not disadvantaged or exploited as a result of migration. We should be looking again at strengthening the way things like the Agency Workers Directive and the Posted Workers Directive work. But opting out of the Social Chapter as the Tories want to do would make things much worse. We should also be arguing for reform to make sure countries’ individual tax and benefit systems are not unfairly used. Requiring countries to treat new migrants exactly the same as long standing residents create a risk that member states simply cut family support, housing or services for all citizens in order to avoid attracting too many migrant workers. That can’t be good for anyone. So Europe should look again at the benefit rules and residence requirements that are in place. Pulling out of Europe altogether – as the Tory right want - would be bad for jobs and growth. Pulling out of European co-operation on the Social Chapter, crime, policing and police and immigration data – as David Cameron wants - would make European migration problems worse. Instead we should be working within Europe to get the sensible reforms we need to make migration fair for all. Britain needs properly managed migration. We need: - A stronger integration policy - A fair system of controls and limits - To recognise different kinds of migration with stronger action against illegal immigration and a more effective system for the migration we need - Stronger action to stop exploitation and undercutting in the labour market - Short term and long term action on European migration for a fairer system As Ed Miliband has said a One Nation immigration policy needs to work for all. That means an honest and open debate. It means admitting where we got things wrong and changing. It means supporting the Government where they get things right, but calling them out when they get it badly wrong. It means recognising that diversity makes Britain stronger. It means no rhetorical arms race, just sensible and practical proposals that can make the system better, stronger and fairer for the future. It is because immigration is so important for Britain’s future that we need a fair, controlled system that people can support. 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Okay, thanks * * * * ____________________ ____________________ (Submit Form) Stay up to date (BUTTON) Toggle navigation [logo.png] * About + Our people + Ed Miliband Leader of the Labour Party + Harriet Harman Deputy Leader of the Labour Party + Shadow Cabinet The frontbench team + Labour MPs Labour representatives in Parliament + Candidates Labour candidates for the next election + Latest News + Blog Latest stories from the campaign + Press Quotes and press releases + The party + Our History Labour through the years + How we work CLP, BLP, NEC?! - all explained * Get Involved + Volunteer Sign up for a local event + Campaign online Take action now + Join Labour Join the Labour Party online + Your Britain Help make Labour Party policy + Membersnet Organise and connect with other members * Donate * Home * News * Effective action on immigration not offensive gimmicks - Chris Bryant Effective action on immigration not offensive gimmicks - Chris Bryant IFRAME: https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/tweet_button.html IFRAME: https://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?app_id=110868159013437&href=h ttp://www.labour.org.uk/effective-action-on-immigration-not-offensive-g immicks&send=false&layout=standard&width=350&show_faces=false&action=li ke&colorscheme=light&font&height=35 12 August 2013 Chris Bryant Speech to the IPPR at the Local Government Association - Check Against Delivery - Chris Bryant MP, Labour's Shadow Home Office Minister, said: INTRODUCTORY REMARKS I am very grateful to both the LGA and the IPPR for hosting today's event. Local government has been at the forefront of many of the issues I shall be talking about today and Sarah Mulley at the IPPR has done a vital job in informing the debate on the centre left of British politics. So, thank you. I want to talk about what I believe is a distinctive view that we in Ed Miliband's Labour Party take of one of the key issues in British politics. I hope to do three things: first, look at the value and the challenges that immigration has brought and continues to bring to the UK; second, lay out where I think the Government is getting hold of the wrong end of the stick; and third, suggest some areas that Labour believes need to be addressed in making migration work for everyone, especially in relation to the labour market, the EU, sham marriages and the push factors in international migration. GROUND RULES But before I do that; the last three weeks have shown yet again that immigration can be an emotive topic, so I want to start with some basic ground rules. First, whilst I don't think anybody is seriously in doubt that immigrants have made an enormous contribution to this country, people, including migrants themselves, quite rightly expect to have their legitimate concerns about immigration taken seriously. I realise that for some time people thought that Labour believed anyone who ever expressed a concern about immigration was racist. So let me be absolutely clear. Yes, racists have sometimes polluted this debate and we should always be alive to the dangers of prejudice, but Labour have concerns about immigration, about the pace of migration, about the undercutting of workers' terms and conditions, about the effect on the UK labour market. We have concerns about how we can help migrants to this country integrate better. And we have profound concerns about the Government's policies on immigration. That is why both Ed Miliband and Yvette Cooper have made important speeches on immigration in this last year. True, Labour made mistakes on immigration. When we came to power in 1997 we had to tackle the complete chaos in the Asylum system, when just fifty members of staff were dealing with 71,000 asylum applications every year. Labour created the position of Immigration Minister to bring real focus to these issues right across government. But although we were right to introduce the points based system in 2008, we should have done that far earlier. And when the new A8 countries joined the EU we were so focused on economic growth that when Germany, France and Italy all put in transitional controls on new EU workers, we went it alone. The result? A far higher number of people came to work here. Let me say what Labour will not do. We will never engage in a Dutch auction on immigration with other parties, nor an arms race of rhetoric, nor a tasteless attempt to out-tough anyone else, nor attempt to ape the language of the far right, nor make promises that we simply cannot meet. Because Labour, like the rest of Britain, values the contribution migrants have made to the UK. Just look at our history. The very idea of inviting commoners to parliament came not from an Englishman 650 years ago, but from Simon de Montfort, who was French. Britain's list of Nobel Prize winners owes much to those who came to these shores as foreigners, Dennis Gabor, inventor of the holograph, born in Hungary, Maurice Wilkins of DNA fame, born in New Zealand, and Ernest Rutherford, the father of nuclear physics, also from New Zealand. Or our literature laureates. Kipling might be the quintessence of Edwardian Britishness, but he was born in India, George Bernard Shaw was Irish, Elias Canetti was born in Bulgaria, Doris Lessing was born in Iran and brought up in Rhodesia, V S Naipaul was born in Trinidad, T S Eliot came to study here as an American and stayed and even Winston Churchill had an American mother. The French Huguenots who built the London silk market from scratch in the eighteenth century, the likes of Mary Seacole who nursed our troops in the Crimean War, the Afro-Caribbeans who came in the First World War to work in the munitions factories of the North West, or as part of the Windrush Generation to fill gaps in the post-war Labour market, the Poles or the Indians who fought with us in the forties, the Italians who came to work in our mines in the nineteenth century, the Indians who work today in our burgeoning IT and gaming industries, the eastern Europeans who have picked our crops or kept our hotels running, have all played a part in building modern Britain. And any country that tries to turn its back on the get up and go energy and the cultural vitality that migrants can bring to an economy, is likely to lose its place in the world. There would be a particular irony if Britain, who sought to build the world's railways, who exported its ideas, its bureaucracy and its people in the millions in the nineteenth and twentieth century, were to become a nation closed to international business just as the rest of the world is becoming more mobile in the twenty first century. That is not to say that the effects of migration are always positive. Nobody can doubt that being a foreigner in another land can be tough. When I was a curate in the 1980s our Churchwarden was Ellie Hector. She told me that when she first arrived from St Vincent people in church would refuse to sit next to her, which is why the story of Ruth meant so much to her. She could recite her words to Naomi off by heart `whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried.' Literature and history are full of stories of aliens suffering in a foreign land and you only have to think of the miseries inflicted through human trafficking, with men and women caught in fifty shades of modern-day slavery, to see that of course migration is a matter of concern to people of the left and now more than ever. International travel, multinational business, worldwide trading, these are facts of modern life and set to grow. With them will com e new challenges if we are to tackle cross border crime, ensure community cohesion and build an immigration system that maintains a strong outward facing economy and guarantees fairness for all. Human trafficking alone is very much a live concern. So what does Labour think? We start from some basic principles: It is the duty of government to protect our borders; It is right to protect the British taxpayer and public services; Britain must retain its strong reputation for international business; just as we welcomed those fleeing persecution in Nazi Germany so we have a moral duty to harbour those under genuine threat of persecution and torture. And above all, any immigration policy must have fairness at its heart, fairness to those already settled here and those who arrive as migrants, fairness so that nobody is exploited, nobody is trafficked, nobody is squeezed out, nobody can jump the queue and those who work hard are fairly rewarded. THE GOVERNMENT'S FAILINGS ON IMMIGRATION Let me deal with the Government's record, not because we want to oppose for the sake of opposition - indeed we have supported several government measures to tackle low skilled immigration and remove foreign criminals - but because the last few weeks of vanman style gimmicks have both left a nasty taste in the mouth and have suggested that the government have got the wrong end of the stick. More interested in finding voters lost to UKIP than in removing illegal immigrants, they have resorted to gimmicks that have not impressed anyone. So in the same month as Britain was rightly complaining to Spain about border delays with Gibraltar, we learnt that France had complained officially to the UK about 4 km queues to get into Britain thanks to British staff shortages. Just a month after Theresa May told the Commons that the ratio of police Stop and Searches compared to arrests was far too high, the Home Office refused to state how many hundreds of people had been stopped by immigration officers compared to arrests in what looked to many like a racial profiling exercise. And whilst poorly worded and tasteless ad vans were touring London begging illegal immigrants to hand themselves in, we learnt that the Home Office has not been finger-printing migrants stopped at Calais or Coquelles for three years and has not followed up 90% of its intelligence leads on illegal immigration. In short, the government's immigration policy adds up to cheap and nasty gimmicks rather than serious proposals or practical measures to tackle illegal entry. Yet the government would have you believe that they are getting on top of immigration. You will have heard the government boast in recent weeks that it has cut net migration by a third since 2010. Leaving aside the fact that the figures the government relies on have been dismissed by the Conservative led public accounts committee as not fit for purpose, we need to look more closely at this supposed success. Actually the government has persuaded more British nationals to leave the country, dissuaded more British nationals from returning and cut the number of international students coming to study here, especially from India and China. Even the Prime Minister is beginning to think that is an own goal, which is why he has had to beg Indians to keep coming here to study. The worldwide foreign study market is worth approximately .5 trillion - and is growing. International students pay their own way, they inject cash into the local economy. They add to the experience of college or university and they are more likely to do business with Britain later. Yet if the Conservatives have their way they will further cut student numbers by 56,000 by 2015. It is not their only failure. Who can forget Theresa May's summer of madness, which first of all saw the checks at British ports cut back dramatically, and then reintroduced in a panic, without the necessary resources to cope. The end result was border queues stretching all the way back to the planes. That kind of administrative chaos is becoming the May hallmark, though. The Home Office had promised to clear its huge backlog of cases by Christmas 2012. That deadline passed 8 months ago, but the backlog is actually increasing and best estimates reckon that it will take 37 years to clear. What is more, both tier 2 and tier 4 visas now take over 50% longer to process in country than they did in 2010, and the number receiving an initial response within the Home Office target of 4 weeks has fallen by 49%. Businesses expecting a quick turnaround on a simple visa are effectively being turned away. Procurement is yet another case of May-style chaos. Labour started the eborders scheme in 2007 and planned to have it covering all journeys by the end of next year, as an essential part of counting people in and out. The Coalition agreement said it would be in place by the end of the parliament. Yet no contract has been signed, the government is still in court with Raytheon and there is no prospect now of even agreeing a date for it to be in place. The same goes for the Cyclamen contract. This is what guarantees protection from nuclear fissile material at our ports. The kit is in place. The portals have been built, but when I visited Southampton and hull docks, they were still not in use, apparently because the government still hadn't signed the contract I fear that we will see an endless run of gimmicks through to 2015. Gimmicks like the Home Office briefing that there would be a -L-3,000 bond payable for anyone intending to visit from one of five countries, which was immediately dismissed by the PM's spokesman. But such tactics do nothing for community cohesion, for national security or for the reputation of British politics. That's why I believe there is a better way of conducting this debate over the next 20 months, one that deals with voters' concerns, not fabricated ones. ONE NATION LABOUR'S PLANS Since I took on this job I have listened to voters in a wide range of constituencies and from a wide range of backgrounds. Pensioners in Lancashire who described themselves as white British. Asian women in the East End. Floating voters in Pudsey. Councillors from all parties in Boston in Lincolnshire. I have heard understandable concerns about the availability of local jobs and the effects on wages, terms and conditions. And I've heard some great urban myths. That every migrant is given a car when they arrive here. Often people have raised questions of integration. As one who spent five years of his childhood living in Spain, and quickly learnt Spanish so as to be able to talk to the other children in the street, I heartily agree that a good standard of English should be a prerequisite for studying or living here. Of course that's not always easy. Look at how poorly British migrants living overseas integrate. But we can and should expect migrants here to learn English, which is why it must make more sense for local authorities to spend money on English courses rather than translation services. The biggest complaint I have heard, though, from migrants and settled communities alike, is about the negative effects migration can have on the UK labour market. And I agree. Even good British companies have been affected by the impact of low skilled migrant workers. Take Tesco. A good employer and an important source of jobs in Britain. They take on young people, operate apprenticeships and training schemes and often recruit unemployed or disabled staff through job centres. Yet when a distribution centre was moved to a new location existing staff said they would have lost out by transferring and the result was a higher proportion of staff from A8 countries taking up the jobs. Tesco are clear they have tried to recruit locally. And I hope they can provide more reassurance for their existing staff. But the fact that staff are raising concern shows how sensitive the issue has become. Some companies have found themselves far more heavily affected. Next PLC recruited extra temporary staff for their South Elmsall warehouse for the summer sale - last year and this year. South Elmsall is in a region with 9% unemployment and 23.8% youth unemployment. Yet several hundred people were recruited directly from Poland. The recruitment agency Next used, Flame, has its web-site, www.flamejobs.pl, entirely in Polish. Now of course short term contracts and work are sometimes necessary in order to satisfy seasonal spikes in demand. But when agencies bring such a large number of workers of a specific nationality at a time when there are one million young unemployed in Britain it is right to ask why that is happening. It's not illegal for Agencies to target foreign workers. But is it fair for them to be so exclusive? Is it fair on migrant workers who can find themselves tied into agency accommodation deals? And is it good practice for the long term health of the economy when so many local young people need experience and training? Next also say they have tried to recruit locally. But I want to see more companies providing assurances and demonstrating what they are doing to train and recruit local staff - particularly the young unemployed - even for temporary posts, rather than using agencies that only bring workers in from abroad. And I want to see the Government to take action - working with companies - to make sure they can recruit more local young people, qualified to to the job. Some sectors of the economy have been far more heavily affected than this. Hospitality, care and construction all have consistently high levels of recruitment from abroad. And far too low levels of training for local young people. Now, many employers say they prefer to take on foreign workers. They have lots of get up and go, they say. They are reliable. They turn up and they work hard. But I've heard examples from across the country where employers appear to have made a deliberate decision not to provide training to local young people but to cut pay and conditions and to recruit from abroad instead, or to use tied accommodation and undercut the minimum wage. It may be the case, as some have argued, that many young people discount hospitality or care industries as beneath them, but in many other countries a job in a hotel is not a dead end or a gap year stopgap but the start of a rewarding career. Tourism is one of our largest industries and yet I have heard horror tales of hotel management deliberately cutting hours of young British workers and adding hours to migrant workers who do not complain about deductions from earnings that almost certainly take people below the minimum wage. This is all the more pernicious at a time of high youth unemployment, yet there was not a single prosecution for breaching the National Minimum Wage in the first two years of this government. So yes, we need British employers to do their bit - working to train and support local young people, avoiding agencies that only recruit from abroad, and shunning dodgy practices with accommodation or to get round the minimum wage. Every business I have ever spoken to that has made that kind of investment has found it has paid dividends in terms of a lower turnover of staff, greater staff loyalty and enhanced brand loyalty in the community. But we also need Government to act. They should be ensuring school leavers are equipped with the skills they need for work, including the 50% who don't choose to go to university; that employers are given more control over the funding for training and skills; and by ensuring that young people who have been unemployed for longer than a year are guaranteed a job - so that no young person is allowed to fall completely out of touch with the world of work. They should also be working with the care, hospitality and construction sectors to deliver more employer training and apprenticeships. And Government needs to improve enforcement too. We need to make it easier to bring prosecutions; Labour will double the fines for minimum wage breaches and for illegal employment of illegal migrants; And because local authorities are far better at knowing what is going on locally, we will give them the power to enforce the minimum wage. Unscrupulous employers should not be allowed to recruit workers in large numbers in low wage countries in the EU, bring them to the UK, charge the costs of their travel and their substandard accommodation against their wages and still not even meet the national minimum wage. That is unfair. It exploits migrant workers and it makes it impossible for settled workers with mortgages and a family to support at British prices to compete. But we also need a government that sees as one of its central aims the eradication of poverty wages and is determined to work with industries like tourism and hospitality to build an even stronger, better motivated, better skilled local workforce. I fear that the two parties that opposed the very introduction of the National Minimum Wage will never be able to tackle this. And we will introduce mandatory registration of commercial landlords, so that nobody is forced to live in substandard accommodation and no employer/landlord can circumvent the minimum wage. I have seen two bedroom flats turned into pits for nine men with a 24 hour rota for the beds. I have seen fast food outlets with a shack for employees to live in, beds in sheds. And it's wrong. It's exploiting migrants and undercutting local workers all for a quick buck. THE EU AND FREE MOVEMENT OF WORKERS It is not just British national law that needs to change. I am a passionate supporter of the UK's membership of the EU, and it is a fact that the British use their rights to travel and work elsewhere in the EU more than any other nationality, but as Yvette Cooper pointed out in her speech earlier this year, we need to argue for longer term reform of how the free movement of workers operates. That means that the EU itself should consider migration in the round and rather than always axiomatically try to encourage greater mobility, analyse some of the complex problems. It also means, as Yvette said, that `we should be working within Europe to get the sensible reforms we need to make migration fair for all'. I won't reiterate the points Yvette has already made about family benefits or about the habitual residence test, nor will I deal today with the wider aspects of free movement, but I do want to point to three very specific concerns that Labour have. First, I have a concern that the ID cards issued in some countries that are used to travel into the UK are far from secure. Italian cards are issued not by the state but by the local authority and are often not fit for purpose. The immigration officers at Heathrow tell me Greek ones are particularly easy to fake. We should work with EU colleagues to improve the standards of all such ID cards used for crossing borders. Secondly there is the problem of vehicles driving in the UK without tax or insurance. The government estimates that there were 15,000 foreign vehicles on UK roads illegally. Of these, only four were caught and not one was prosecuted. These vehicles not only represent a threat to public safety and lead to UK drivers losing out in an accident with an uninsured vehicle, but also mean a loss of -L-3 million in revenue. The government must do more to enforce the existing law. Thirdly, there is a significant loophole in the law around marriage. Any UK national who wants to sponsor a foreign national spouse into the UK has to prove that they will not have recourse to public funds. The government set the income hurdle for proving that last year at -L-18,600. Many thousands of couples and families have been effectively separated by his new rule and the government is at loggerheads with the courts over the threshold figure. However, if another EEA national, for instance a Spaniard or an Italian, marries a non EEA national, there is no requirement for them to meet the -L-18,600 threshold. They can get married either at home or in the UK and they can both live here without any further need to prove their income. All three of these issues need concerted EU action and our government should be seeking reform in these areas. SHAM MARRIAGES But there is another problem. Because registrars have told me that they are concerned about the growing incidences of sham marriages, which has partly arisen because when you close down one route it is likely that people will use another. But also because the way marriage law interacts with immigration is simply not fit for purpose. Understandably, registrars do not see themselves as immigration officers. They see their job as facilitating marriage. When Labour was in government we tightened up the rules, so anyone wishing to marry in this country who is subject to immigration control has to use one of the 76 qualified register offices. They give 15 days notice of their intention to marry and the notice is published on the register office board. If the registrar has concerns, they send a Section 24 notice to the Home Office, although several senior registrars have said to me that there is a reluctance to invoke this power. Bizarrely, those notices of intention to marry cannot be passed to the Home Office, whose officers literally have to inspect all the register office notice boards. Yet any investigation has to be complete within the 15 days. What is more if one man gives notice to marry several different women in different register offices, the register service IT system will not flag this up as a duplicate. So, I am proposing several changes. First, the Home Office should have real-time online notification of all notices of marriage where one or other person is under an immigration control. Second the notice period should be extended to either 20 or 25 days. Third, if the Home Office detects any anomalies the period can be extended to 60 or 90 days, during which the Home Office can do full and proper investigations. If the marriage does prove to be sham the person under the immigration control would be removed. PUSH FACTORS This brings me to one final point. Politicians on the right regularly refer to pull factors that supposedly affect migration, but there is much less talk in the UK of the push factors that lead people to leave their homes, including war, violence, famine, disease and natural disasters. We need to redress that. After all, it is only natural that people want to stay at home, in their home country and it is in everyone's interests for us to help them do that. Look at one specific aspect - environmental refugees. Some of the most populous cities in the world including Mumbai, Calcutta, Shanghai, Ho Chi Minh City and Guangzhou are heavily exposed to coastal flooding. In 2010 extreme weather displaced millions in Malaysia, Pakistan, China, Sri Lanka and the Philippines and the United Nations estimates that in 2008 20 million people were displaced by climate change, compared to 4.6 million by virtue of internal conflict or violence. So, if we get climate change wrong there is a very real danger we shall see levels of mass migration as yet unparalleled. Take the Carteret islands off Bougainville, which is part of Papua New Guinea and therefore the Commonwealth. The islands are disappearing under the rising ocean. An evacuation of the islanders started in 2011. They are the first permanent environmental refugees. They may be few in number, 2,500 or so, but repeat that for every low-lying city round the world and you can imagine that the UN estimates of 200 million such refugees, more than the total number of worldwide migrants today, may be about right. That is yet another reason why tackling climate change and maintaining the commitment to International Development is so key to Labour. CLOSING Immigration is rarely a standalone policy. It affects and is affected by the economy, by cultural expectations, by climate change and by welfare policies. Nor is it a monolith. The number of British nationals leaving or returning to the UK are a part of the equation. And I would argue that the international student market is one in which we should be hoping to grow our share not slash it. The government may well resort to a string of cheap and nasty gimmicks to give the impression of activity over the next two years, but Labour will put forward serious proposals to tackle illegal entry, to end exploitation, to encourage integration, to strengthen the economy and to protect the taxpayer. * * * Related campaigns: Volunteer Sign up for an event near you Donate Can you chip in? Donate now and help us build a winning campaign. Join Share our commitment to a better future? 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Promoted by and on behalf of the Labour Party at One Brewer's Green, London SW1H 0RH. * Disability Access * Privacy Policy * Terms of Service #Recent updates Skip to main content GOV .UK Search Search ____________________ Search Menu * Departments * Topics * Worldwide * How government works * Get involved * Policies * Publications * Consultations * Statistics * Announcements GOV.UK uses cookies to make the site simpler. Find out more about cookies Tell us what you think of GOV.UK No thanks Take the 3 minute survey This will open a short survey on another website Speech Damian Green's speech on making immigration work for Britain Organisation: Home Office Delivered on: 2 February 2012 (Transcript of the speech, exactly as it was delivered) Page history: Published 2 February 2012 Minister: The Rt Hon Damian Green MP This speech was delivered at the Policy Exchange on 2 February 2012. This version is checked against delivery. The Rt Hon Damian Green MP For the past decade the immigration debate in this country has been mainly about numbers. How many come here, and how fast they come here, has been the root of widespread political concern and public anxiety. That’s why we thought it would take a whole Parliament to bring them down to a sustainable basis. And as a result of all the actions we are taking, we anticipate net migration will come down to the tens of thousands. By the second anniversary of the General Election this May we will have implemented or announced radical changes in all the main routes of immigration and in the key area of breaking the automatic link between coming here and staying here forever. The first small signs of the beneficial effects of these policies are just beginning to show up, with a 11 per cent fall in student visas and a 17 per cent fall in work visas in the latest quarterly figures compared with a year previously. But there is no quick fix. We know that net migration has consistently been around 150,000 to 200,000 a year since the late 1990s. The recent rise to 252,000 reflects the culmination of the policies of the last Government. That’s why we thought it would take a whole Parliament to bring them down to the tens of thousands on an annual basis. Everything we do is designed to help us reach this goal, while keeping us open to the brightest and best who will help drive economic growth. We need to raise the whole tone of the immigration debate. Immigration remains one of the two or three most important issues, and it is frankly absurd that anyone who argues for firmer immigration controls is accused of dog-whistling or nastiness. That kind of response may have worked as a political trick ten years ago but even those on the left who take a detailed and intelligent interest in immigration matters recognise that the world has moved on. What we need is a national consensus on how we can make immigration work for Britain. We are evidently a long way from such a consensus but I want to start to build it. Making the immigration numbers sustainable is a necessary condition for a successful immigration policy. But it is not sufficient. What I want to speak about today is another key element in the long-term transformation of British immigration policy, which is the development of the principle of selectivity. We need to know not just that the right numbers of people are coming here, but that the right people are coming here. People who will benefit Britain, not just those who will benefit from Britain. An immigration policy which reflects a consensus about who should be able to come here, and an immigration system that can actually deliver that. A legal framework which reflects the will of Parliament while respecting our international legal obligations. A system, and a policy, which makes immigration work for Britain economically. This is absolutely necessary so that immigration policy can contribute to the wider agenda for economic growth. Recently the Migration Advisory Committee published a fascinating study about how we calculate the costs and benefits of immigration. This is the first authoritative study to look at this complex but absolutely vital calculation in detail. Economists across Government will be considering the MAC’s assessment in detail over the coming weeks. I believe it changes the whole intellectual basis of the immigration debate, and deserves far more attention than it gained when it was first published. The MAC focussed on three main areas. First, when weighing up costs and benefits, whose welfare should be considered - the resident population or that of the residents plus new immigrants? Their view is that Government should focus on the impact of migration on the welfare of the residents. This would remove the bias in the system which meant that any increase in immigration was recorded as an increase in overall GDP and therefore by definition a benefit, whereas any cut in migration was a cut in GDP and therefore a negative. Also the MAC said that more consideration should be given to less tangible but potentially important impacts such as the positive dynamic effects on productivity which skilled migrants can bring. Second, do immigrants displace British workers in the labour market? The MAC research showed that in certain circumstances there can be displacement of British-born workers by non-EEA migrants, up to a level of 23 displaced for every 100 additional working age non-EEA migrants. The MAC suggested that impact assessments should not always assume, as they have done, that if migration is reduced, none of the jobs vacated by migrants will be filled by resident workers. And third, how can less easily quantifiable social impacts - for example the impact of migration on transport, housing, crime and consumption of education and health services - be accounted for? The inadequacy of the present data prevents a simple monetisation of this. However they should not then be ignored in favour of other more readily measurable factors such as tax and wages. A qualitative analysis which sets out potential distributional impacts which are complex and will vary according to local area, gender, income, age group or ethnicity would improve our assessment. This analysis gives us the basis for a more intelligent debate. It supports a more selective approach to non-EU migration. The old assumption was that as immigration adds to GDP - national output- it is economically a good thing, and that therefore logically the more immigration the better, whatever the social consequences. It is not my view, or the view of the vast majority of the British people. The key insight of the MAC’s work is that the measure of a successful immigration policy is how it increases the wealth of the resident population. It is easy to see the opposite in action. In the boom decade before the bust of 2008 the number of people employed in the UK economy increased by 2.9 million. But 1.6 million of the jobs were taken by non-UK nationals. That is emphatically not a sustainable policy. What is sustainable is an approach which brings the numbers down but at the same time targets those whom Britain needs to attract to create a dynamic economy. Those who have the knowledge, ideas and the skills to make us a more productive place, and therefore a place where it is easier for UK citizens to find a job. This means developing a system which chooses carefully who we allow to come, and who we allow to stay. The changes so far As I say the main purpose and effect of the changes we have already introduced is to cut the numbers and bring the system under control. But we have been careful to consult before every individual change, to involve the independent Migration Advisory Committee, to publish the evidence on which we have based our proposals, and indeed to change the details of the proposals in response to the thoughts of others. This has allowed us to pursue both the path of reducing numbers and the necessity to start building a more selective system. A number of individual policies illustrate this. We have already made significant changes to the rules governing the admission of skilled workers. Not just the annual limit but also a higher minimum skills requirement so that occupations such as cooks and careworkers are no longer eligible. We made sure that we retained a flexible approach for scientists, researchers, those paid more than £150,000 and intra-company transferees. And we closed the Tier 1 General route which allowed self-selecting migrants to come without a job offer. Adopting a more selective approach has ensured the system has worked smoothly, with the limit we imposed being significantly under-subscribed - we expect only around half the available places to be taken. This fact entirely contradicts the notion, which some commentators are fond of, that the limit is stopping businesses getting key workers from the global talent pool, there is not a shred of evidence for that. For students, our new system ensures that only high-quality, genuine students can come to the UK to study with legitimate education providers. A key flaw in the old system was the lack of regulation of private providers. That’s why we asked the Quality Assurance Agency and the Independent Schools Inspectorate to extend their activities to cover these colleges; and why we required all Tier 4 sponsors to obtain Highly Trusted status from the UK Border Agency. The students themselves have to speak better English, and progress in their studies if they want to prolong them. And we’ve curbed those entitlements which were attracting students for the wrong reasons such as the right to work and to bring their families with them. At the same time we have made it easier for the low risk students to meet our visa procedural requirements. In the coming weeks we will be announcing our conclusions about the settlement and family consultations that we have conducted. In those consultations there were a number of examples of the selectivity I am talking about. In our consultation on family migration, we have made clear that we welcome those who are in genuine relationships. But there is an important caveat. We want those coming here to be able to integrate fully and to be independent. This means being able to speak English and having sufficient financial means to be able to prosper. We asked the MAC to advise on an appropriate income range for the sponsor’s income, which they have suggested should be between £18,600 and £25,700. This will produce a new system for family migration which is selective in choosing people who are ready and able to take a positive role in the life of their local community and society more widely. Not only will this help us develop a more cohesive and united society, it will be of huge benefit to the individuals who come to settle here from all over the world, and who need to feel that they belong here. Importing economic dependency on the State is unacceptable. Bringing people to this country who can play no role in the life of this country is equally unacceptable. It leads to women leading isolated lives, cut off from mainstream British life. Furthermore marriage as an entrance ticket to the UK rather than as part of a loving relationship is not acceptable. In our other consultation on employment-related settlement, we proposed to break the link between coming to work in the UK and staying on permanently. We will end the assumption that settlement is an option for all those who come to work. Instead, we will accord it to the brightest and best. We took advice from the MAC on how to do this and they recommended using pay as the most appropriate selection criteria. They suggested a threshold in a salary range of between £31 and £49k a year. So again the system will become more selective. The future Our effort so far has been about cutting out abuse, getting the basics right, and getting the numbers down. That effort will of course continue, but building on this approach there is now scope to adopt a more selective approach among the pool of legal migrants. For work, it is not just about controlling numbers through a limit. So we have asked the MAC to look at raising further the minimum skills levels we require from those who come here. Britain does not need more migrant middle managers, any more than it needs unskilled labour. We do need top of the range professionals, senior executives, technical specialists, entrepreneurs and exceptional artistic and scientific talent. One of the tasks for the future is shaping the system so that it allows us to be more precisely selective. I have also asked the MAC to review the working of the policies we introduced last year on intra-company transferees. I know this route is fundamental to Britain’s ability to attract foreign direct investment and we need to get it right for our employers. Our approach, based on salary, is far more transparent and far less bureaucratic than that of many competitor countries. Employers can rely on it. I want to keep it that way. At the same time, as a route which sits outside the limit and does not require a resident labour market test, I need to be very sure it is not being used to undercut our domestic workers, particularly in sectors where a third party contracting model is used. So I await the MAC’s report with interest. I want British employers to be able to access the best global talent. At the same time, employers need to do more to address skills shortages rather than rely on migration. Some jobs have been on the Shortage Occupation List since the MAC started to advise us on it three years ago. The List is not meant to be static or permanent. We owe it to British employees, particularly at a time of high unemployment even amongst graduates, to ensure that migration is not seen as the permanent solution, thereby perpetuating the shortage of British workers rather than alleviating temporary gaps in supply. That’s why it’s not just about tightening the migration system but also about focussing on the skills and training agenda. Just as we are open to the brightest and best, we will continue to make clear that there needs to be no open route for unskilled workers to come here long term. So, for example, we have announced, having taken advice from the MAC, that the current transitional restrictions on Romanian and Bulgarian workers will be extended for another two years, given the current state of labour market disturbance. And, we have consulted about restricting the unskilled ‘overseas domestic worker’ route for household staff. This coming April will see the introduction of our smarter approach to Post-Study work. Instead of giving everyone the right to stay for two years whether or not they have a job, we are introducing a system which allows only those with a good graduate-level job to stay. Those who are wanted by British employers not just those who want to stay. Some of this about imposing restrictions on those we don’t really need. The other side of the selectivity coin is to use the migration system to attract those we do really want and need. Now that we have moved away from the old model of mass unselective immigration we can develop the system further to encourage the brightest and best to come here. This does not mean a return to the old, much-abused and self-selecting Tier 1 General route. Rather, it is about the development of new specialist routes. For example, we have forged new partnerships with bodies such as the Arts Council and the Royal Society, to give them the opportunity to select exceptional talent to come to the UK. The principle of engagement in the migration system by sectoral bodies is an important one. Already the regulation of migration by sportspeople is delegated to a large extent to the sports governing bodies, who exercise it in a responsible manner. I hope the new Exceptional Talent Route will become useful in the future to make Britain the first and most natural port of call for world class scientific and artistic talent to work and prosper. No one would deny that the FA Premier League is not open to the best footballers from around the world and we want to work with representative bodies to bring about the same results in the other fields. Let me give you some examples of recent approvals under the Tier 1 (exceptional talent) route. For the arts, the Arts Council has endorsed applications from one of today’s leading pianists, and from an expert on Visual Effects considered to be a pioneer in the field whose works include many of the recent James Bond films. We’ve also seen expert scientists using this route. For instance, a Chinese researcher who has made a remarkable contribution to the field of condensed-matter physics came to the UK under this route with the endorsement of the Royal Society and is currently a Tutorial Fellow and University Lecturerat a leading UK University. The Royal Academy of Engineering has also endorsed a number of applications from researchers demonstrating world class talent and potential, an Algerian Chemical Engineer who received a prestigious Fellowship to develop new bio-fuels at a leading UK industrial research centre. I am keen that within this route we attract not only established experts but also those who show exceptional promise. The British Academy endorsed an application from a Canadian academic who holds an outstanding record for someone near the beginning of her career, and is coming to the UK to produce internationally leading research with one of the top research groups in the world. We are already attracting more investors and entrepreneurs under the much more open and generous arrangements we have created for them. Recent examples include a Russian businessman who has gained fast access to global markets by setting up a parquet-manufacturing operation in the UK. It is hoped that the start-up operation, based in London and Hertfordshire and set to employ 10-30 people over the next three years, will develop to become the international hub of established Russian firm ArtParquet. His experience of applying for the visa: “the procedure is well balanced, clear and understandable” The Entrepreneur visa also gave Oil and gas company (Canyon Oil & Gas) the means to grow their company internationally by setting up in the UK. The Company’s energy specialist who obtained a Tier 1 entrepreneur visa said “I am very impressed with the Tier 1 visa, as well as the UK’s business culture and work ethic”. The Company is focusing on markets in Southeast Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa, and aims to expand once it acquires assets. I now want to build on this by introducing a new route for international graduate entrepreneurs, that is to say those international students who have engaged in supervised entrepreneurial activity during their university studies in the UK and who want to stay on after their studies to develop their ideas. I have asked the MAC to review the case for easing the Resident Labour Market Test requirement, so that jobs for high earners do not need to be advertised here first. That would make it easier for employers to recruit the most economically valuable migrants to come here. We will improve the working of the system for some short-term business visitors and entertainers. Britain is one of the great artistic and creative centres of the world, and we do not want to be discouraging world-class performers from coming here. I am aware that this has been a sore point for some time and we are taking action. The system does work well for most people. To take an example from the circus world, a British circus proprietor can issue a certificate of sponsorship (work permit) in the morning for a Mexican juggler on an initial contract for three months and then immediately send it electronically to the artiste who can catch a plane that same day and enter the UK, as a non-visa national, without the need for a visa.. This is a system, I am told, that is not available anywhere else in the world and works because the circus management also assume their responsibilities in operating that system. Nonetheless, I am looking at allowing some who are more akin to visitors than workers and who do not have regular sponsors to come through the visitor route rather than having to obtain sponsorship under the points-based system. We need to keep improving the functioning of the system for those using it responsibly. So far I have kept the framework of the migration system created by the last Government and have focussed on getting the detail right. Looking ahead, I shall want to retain the strong points of that system, such as sponsorship, but ensure that we can be more responsive and flexible, both in saying yes and no, in specific cases. We have added Taiwan to the list of countries with whom we have a Youth Mobility agreement which allows young people to work here for up to two years, in return for the equivalent opportunities for young British people. This scheme has as its preconditions reciprocity - in terms of scope and numbers in bilateral agreements - and selectivity. It is limited to low-risk, non-visa national countries with which we have an effective returns agreement. It replaced the shambolic and non-selective Working Holidaymaker scheme which attracted such levels of abuse it had to be suspended in several countries. I am also keen to develop the use of Government Approved Exchange schemes which are tailored to specific circumstances. They enable temporary work, usually for schemes where there is a training, work experience or cultural dimension which does not affect the domestic labour market. Examples include the UK/US Fulbright Teacher exchange programme sponsored by the British Council or the Medical Training Initiative organised by the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges. I mentioned earlier the closure of the Post-Study Work route. A Tier 5 GAE scheme potentially offers a smart alternative for trainee professionals. The onus is on the professional body to take the initiative in setting up a scheme and then sponsoring the trainees. Again, I am keen to encourage the active involvement in the migration system of those bodies that stand to gain by it: an element of self-regulation, rather than relying on the Home Office to take all the responsibility. All these are examples of how the migration system can select those who will be the dynamic agents of economic growth in our country. This selective approach is the right one for employers, migrants and Britain because it is sustainable, helps integration and complements the resident labour market rather than replaces it. That’s how we are becoming more selective on the work route. But the biggest immigration route is the student route. We are now on the way to eliminating the abuse created by the laxity of the old system. There is still some way to go on that and we will keep our changes under review. For example I am watching closely the developments in the Australian student visa system. They have just strengthened their migrant credibility test, a feature not present in ours. And I am keen to focus not just on the inflow of students but also their departure. Reinforcing the notion that study is for a limited period, extensions are for those who progress academically, and post-study work for those who will really contribute. Improving outflows of students at the end of their course, will not just reduce the net migration gap but will also reinforce the benefits of circular migration, by sharing the benefits of UK education with the countries where the migrants are from. But on a wider level, the debate about student immigration needs to move on. It has been a polarised one, with the drive to stop bogus colleges and bogus students on the one hand and a desire to expand international student numbers for the greater economic good on the other. Somewhere in between there is a discussion to be had about the legitimate students coming here. Of course international students bring economic and wider benefits. But, as the MAC said in their recent report on Impacts, there is scope for further examination of whether and to what extent foreign student tuition fees boost the UK economy and crucially how UK residents ultimately benefit from that. We need a better understanding of the economic and social costs and benefits of student migration: from the point of view of the wider UK economy, the education sector itself and the students themselves. There needs to be a focus on quality rather than quantity. The principle of selectivity should apply to student migration just as it does to work migration. But we have seen in recent years a number of high-profile court cases in which people have been allowed to stay here by asserting rights under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. Many of these rights, at least in the form they have been given expression through the case law, are not recognised as such by the bulk of the population. That leads to the ridiculous and damaging situation where the whole concept of Human Rights is called into question. This is not healthy for anyone. It is also dangerous for there to be a long-term stand-off between Parliament and the judges, which is why we want to give better Parliamentary guidance on what should be considered in these kind of cases in future. I do want to do what I can to avoid any obvious mismatch between immigration rules on the one hand, and the interpretation of human rights legislation on the other. When we bring forward the new rules on Family migration which I referred to earlier, they will set out to Parliament the Government’s view on how the balance between individual rights and the public interest should be struck. That means the Rules will reflect how the conditions we set for entry and the right to remain are in our view proportionate and therefore consistent with Article 8 entitlements. This means the Rules will mean what they say and we, applicants and the public will be clear about who is entitled to be here, on what conditions and why. Conclusion This selective approach will also be relevant to the way we develop our border security, our visa system, and the services we offer tourists and business visitors in the future. If we want the brightest and best, and we do, then we must make the process comfortable and welcoming for them. Both our policies and the practices of the UK Border Agency must become as smart, selective and tailored as we can make them. Our first priority has been, and remains, to get the system back under control, to get the numbers down and keep them down. We have laid the foundations for a sustainable system. Now we shall shape it, to make it work for Britain. The main point I make today is that everyone who comes here must be selected to make a positive contribution. That is at the heart of our commitment to reduce net migration. We have talked in the past about a Points Based System. In the future it will be more accurate to talk about a contribution-based system. Whether you come here to work, study, or get married, we as a country are entitled to check that you will add to the quality of life in Britain. There are people who think that all immigrants are bad for Britain. There are also people who think that all immigrants are good for Britain. To move the immigration debate on to a higher level let’s take it as read that they are both wrong, and that the legitimate question in today’s world is how can we benefit from immigration. My answer is that we are building, as fast as we can, an immigration system which is smarter, more selective and more responsive. An immigration system that delivers what Britain needs rather than what special interest groups demand. The change from the unregulated chaos of immigration policy in the past to this new vision will take some time to be fully visible. But we have taken significant steps already, and the announcements we will make shortly will be another important part of the journey towards an immigration system in which the British people can have confidence. Share Share this page * Share on Facebook * Share on Twitter Published: 2 February 2012 Organisation: Home Office Minister: The Rt Hon Damian Green MP Is there anything wrong with this page? Help us improve GOV.UK Please don't include any personal or financial information, for example your National Insurance or credit card numbers. 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